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It’s gotta be Dahlia for me. Manfred and Engarde are great but each are really only relevant for one case. Dahlia is built up so well throughout T&T and finally taking her down at the end is extremely satisfying
Pretty much. But he's the most important killer in the series no doubt. I'm going to talk abotb DL-6 and it's impacts at length in my Bridge video, but like I said here everything traces back to what happened in that elevator.
@@tbone415 Spoilers for AAI2.... To an extent, we can also blame Blaise Debeste for everything that happens in the trilogy, given he's the guy who covered up the SS-5 incident, had an indirect hand in the IS-7 incident and gave Manfred his penalty for something that Blaise covered up himself, leading to the DL-6 incident.
@@sohumchatterjee9 actually, we can trace it farther: the reason the penalty even happened was due to AA2-3, where a baker killed and artist. TLDR: ace attorney happened due to two bad parents trying to win a baking contest.
what they do with manfred von karma in edgeworth's two games adds to him i'd say, but then again this is a judgement of the trilogy, not outside games.
And justice for all imo successfully explored the “sympathetic killer” way more than the 1st game. all the culprits had their lives ruined and contemplated suicide. In the last case, Adrian Andrews isn’t a killer but she was almost accused as one, by you no less, and you get heavy amounts of sympathy for her also. JFA also explores all the culprits thinking about killing themselves. Mimi miney, acro, and Adrian Andrews all went through so much and thought about ending it, or taking matters into their own hands because “they” didn’t have justice. JFA is a very loaded and underrated game in terms of deeper meanings
Mimi did ask for her sister's identity- her life was ruined, so she pretended she was her sister to start again. She also killed Grey not just for her life getting ruined, but also because he was asking Maya to channel her spirit-- even though she was still alive. She felt she had to kill him to protect herself from being found out
Fear of discovery doesn't mean all that much when the channeling in question received no outside buzz outside Lotta's arrival. The last channeling done by a Master of Kurain resulted in Misty Fey's disgraceful tabloid treatment and self-imposed exile. Not that the Misty Fey subplot matters much here compared to either of the other games in the trilogy, but I do digress... Here's a thought: why couldn't Miney and Morgan have just secretly/quietly let the new Master of Kurain fail the channeling on her own? Supposing Maya had failed to channel Miney, there's no guarantee at all that Grey would assume she's still out there. Pearl later fails to channel someone dead in T&T and assumed she was too weak to do it. That's probably how Maya would take it too-- she'd only ever summoned Mia before, and lost even that temporarily before returning home. _And_ the failure the more likely assumption for Grey to make-- that channeling is a quackery and fraud. (Remember, he doesn't even trust weather forecasts.) We're supposed to believe he was truly convinced it was real? that it wasn't a last-ditch low-chance effort to save his reputation? Morgan totally could've spun Maya's simpler failure to channel as a way to get Pearl higher consideration for the position of Master, but nah-- Morgan wanted Maya's reputation in shambles (or straight-up jailed) and Miney just wanted Grey dead. I mean, think about it: What made Grey so hung up on the idea of channeling? The only reason we're given is that he got the idea for the channeling from Ini's interest in parapsychology. Conversation with Ini brought him (and her) to Kurain. Once he was set on it, she purposely laid that trap with Morgan, to kill him as herself. She's cold-blooded. Almost as much as the redhead identity thief in game 3, just with a better excuse.
Oh, right. Forgot that Grey brought a gun to force the confessional. He _must've_ thought he was gonna talk to Mimi, so he brought a convincer. But again, if the channeling goes nowhere, there's no reason to use it. Can't threaten a Medium to do the impossible, after all. It really is the best way this all could've gone down, but those darn conspirators... feh. It's also worth noting that the firing of the gun surprised Miney _and_ Morgan, who nonetheless set up this elaborate costume double disguise in a locked room with a unique key. Because sleuthing, I guess. 🤷♂️ Miney was still conveniently squatting by the folding screen after having stashed Maya's unconscious body in the box behind the folding screen _when she got shot at._ Her reaction? She grabs his gun, she shoots him, point-blank, powder-burning his face. Her 'motive' in that moment was that she was straight-up pissed at Grey.
The anime takes Mimi's role in the case a step further--she only wanted to fool Dr. Grey into thinking Mimi was the one being channeled, she never intended to kill him. Morgan however said "Nah, even better: kill that dude and pin it on my own niece. You WILL do this, otherwise I'll expose your secret." I kinda like that take on Mimi a lot more because after the malpractice and her sister's death, I doubt she wanted anymore blood on her hands.
If we're speaking the role of villain rather than specifically murderer, I would have ranked Manfred von Karma in S tier. Motive wise he sure is lacking compared to other villains in the trilogy but I'm rather interested by the way he was written, his obsession with keeping an absolutely perfect record to the point it leads to murder when that one objective is challenged, the strong impact he has on the series as a whole since the DL-6 incident is the root of every main events of the series, and he was the main reason for it to occur, not to mention how wonderfully executed his role as an antagonist was executed in Turnabout Goodbyes. He constantly pushes the player into a corner, completely turns around the way players usually play the game by that point by preventing the player from gaining too much information from witnesses, manipulating the judge into granting his every demands, issuing legal threats, physically assaulting the player and just overall by being such a intimidating, intelligent and imposing individual to go against which clearly sets the difference between him and Edgeworth. He has that powerful final boss and main overarching antagonist aura around him and I don't think the effect he left on the player and Phoenix (or even whoever Manfred manipulated such as Edgeworth) was ever matched in the entire franchise. Absolute S tier villain for me, thought I agree that if only considered a killer, he isn't really deserving of S tier unlike people like Gant, Godot, Engarde, etc. His antagonistic role was more focused on the mental manipulation and his genius to trick all those around him to gain what he wants as well as the results of his deeds. I really enjoy your character analyses and I am looking forward to what you will propose next
Got it on the money. He did lacked a good motive but this is a man that has been established to do ANYTHING to keep his perfect record in check. Murder for no good reason is definitely something he will do
I can't particularly argue with any of these rankings. Gant in particular feels amazing to bring down, he just feels so huge an untouchable. I would say one of my favorite villains is one that's more subtle and never directly takes anyone's life, and that's Morgan Fey. She's a large part of the root cause of Dahlia Hawthorne's self-centered sociopathy. It really is a testament to Takumi's writing skill how intricately the Fey family, the DL-6 incident and all the chains of causality affect everything in the original trilogy
All major villains. Atmosphere: Manfred von Karma Competence: Damon Gant Meta impact: Matt Engarde In-universe impact: Dahlia Hawthorne Redeeming traits: Godot Shelly doesn't get a first place, but he ranks high in all the above.
== S== Manfred von Karma: pretty much the easiest S tier for me. His motive was well established, and yes pride is a very realistic motive. He got away with his murder for some 15 years. Not only that, he raised someone into taking the fall for him in those 15 years. He actively hinders you during your investigations by taking away the DL-6 evidence. Of course he is also a massive threat in court. This man was a huge wall to overcome, and it took both luck and skill to do so. Damon Gant: just like Von Karma he got away with killing someone for years. He also set up other people to take the fall for him. Even when eventually caught, he resisted in court for a long time. It took both Phoenix and Edgeworth to eventually trap him, which shows how tough he was as an opponent. Matt Engarde: another quite easy S tier. The murder is well planned and actually makes use of an assassin. He completely tricks both Phoenix and the player at the early stages of the case. The best part is that he does actually win for the most part. It is only because of Maya's channeling magic that he ends up losing in the end, otherwise Phoenix would have defended him all the way. Definitely the scariest villain in the trilogy. Dahlia Hawthorne: fantastic villain. Yes she loses all the time, but like was said in the video that's part of her character. It is undeniable though that her actions have an impact, even if she loses in the end. Every villain loses in the end. What matters the most to me is the effort they put up, and the mark that they leave on the story. She has both of those in spades. Godot: don't have much to say here. This man is a legend. Very sympathetic and a well crafted murder. == A == Ini Miney: very sympathetic as a villain. It is very easy to understand her motive. The plot she concocted with Morgan was also very well made, and quite intricate. Her loss was mostly based on chance, and not her own mistakes. If it wasn't for Pearls being Pearls, her case was incredibly solid. Luke Atmey: i really like thus guy. His plot was well done and he was very close to getting away with it. Rarely do we see villains actually abusing the legal system in their favor, and he did just that. His wackiness I think also lent itself well in AA. He is definitely the most memorable villain to me. == B == Frank Shawit: did pretty well for being the villain in the tutorial in the first case ever. If it wasn't for the fact that we see him commit the crime in the opening cutscene, he would be a decent challenge. Yanni Yogi: you got someone who's life was ruined by the legal system, specifically by Hammond. His motive is pretty much as good as it can get, to the point where it's the most sympathetic. What keeps him from climbing higher is that the murder plot was not his own. == C == Red White: Supposedly a very powerful and influential man. Unfortunately that only really shines through on a surface level. I would have like to see more interference from him in your investigations, and even in court. At least he had a significant impact on the story. Dee-Vasques: she was kind of smart and did a pretty good job at hiding her killing, which actually was mostly just self-defense. Her biggest mistake was trying to hide that in the first place, which is why she's not climbing higher than C tier. Having mob connections and such was an interesting idea, that ultimately didn't actually have any effect on the player. Just like with Red White I would have liked to see more interference from her during investigations. Richard Wellington: while I'm tempted to put him in D tier, I don't think he's that bad. He did make a legitimate effort to hide the murder, and was relatively successful. His biggest mistake in the end was taking the wrong phone, and well he couldn't have known in advance that he and Phoenix had the same phone. For a tutorial villain I think he did pretty well, though not as good as others. == D == Acro: while I think he has a decent motivation, that's kind of where it stops. His murder plot relies on so many different coincidences and conditionals. It is hardly well crafted. Him thinking on his feet and hiding the bust was nice though. Furio Tigre: this whole case was just ridiculous. His plot only works if you massively suspend your disbelief. A bad villain in a bad case.
Nice list! Here are some of my thoughts. Gant is maybe my favorite character in the series. I like how the game manages to clearly showcase that he's evil while at the same time give him humanizing moments. And I don't mean human = sympathetic here, but rather that he feels slightly more nuanced than many of the more flat out evil antagonists. This is especially noticable in how dissapointed the Judge is with him (how Gant seemingly always used to be a great member of the force) but also with Gant's comments towards Edgeworth, where he implies that they are alike. Not to mention everything else about him. He has such a strong and memorable presence, partly thanks to his design, sprites and musical theme. I'd probably put Redd White at absolute bottom tier. He's so conceptually interesting, but he should've not been such an early antagonist imo. Like, this dude is a blackmailing oligarch with massive amount of influence... and it then turns out that he's just a massive clown who is ridiculously easy to take down. Which especially feels off to me, considering how important 1-2 is. For me, he's by far that case's biggest weakness. I generally don't like 3-3, but it has a couple of strengths and I honestly think Tigre is one of them. The silly concept around his character alone (his thick NY accent coupled with being a freaking Phoenix-clone tiger man) and how well it goes with the very silly tone of the case. He's a clown, but a pretty funny one, I think.
Hard agree on Redd White. He should have been a much harder villain, and should have come later in the series. I like his concept, I really do, but he's just so easy despite talking such a big game... it's like the dialogue tells you the stakes are high, but then the gameplay shows they're low
Luke Warm take...... Luke Atmy was a genius for a second case. I think its underrated how smart his plan was. Its just that phoenix was the one who took the case.
6:09 that was actually shellys idea, because he is suprised when he finds out that Phoenix knows who De Killer is. Engarde only accepts Phoenix as his attorney after he puts two and two together and realizes that it was part of Shelly’s plan to acquit him. (Even though Shelly blackmailing the judge would've been a better move) Also will you do any videos on the TGAA?
What I really like about Gyakuten Kenji 2 is how much it's tied to the DL-6 incident: it explains everything that was left unsolved, adds some very interesting details (like Blaise Debeste being the one to penalize Von Karma) and also fills in some aspects of the over-arching story (for example, the reason why only 3 prosecutors wear their badges). I mean, I only remember half of what that game explained, and I still find it so fascinating!
To me Damon Gant was the best. Felt like the true final boss of the first game, filled with mystery and intimidating aura, Completely mind broke Edgeworth and led to his character development, played with the Judge's heart, nearly ruined Lana's life and still managed to get her to commit crimes against her will still managing to somewhat drag her down with him, broke Jake Marshall and the Angel Starr to the point where they were left disgraced and paranoid, essentially congratulated "Wrighto" for winning the game in somewhat of a 4th wall break, multiple time offender, very difficult to investigate and convict compared to other villains, cool and somehow intimidating theme, memeable turboclapping breakdown, etc etc. I both hated yet somehow respected him as I played that case.
Gant's case is probably my favourite from the trilogy. It goes so incredibly wild and confusing so fast. The more you find out, the less you understand until the very end really. And Gant himself, he's a great terrible person. Always has another trick up his sleeve, wields his authority with even more strength than Quercus Alba from Edgeworth 1. And speaking of Miles, It's also a great moment for him when, as it becomes increasingly obvious that Gant is behind everything, Edgeworth starts to furiously look for ways in which he can help steer the case in Phoenix's favour and keep things going. The only other moment like this we get is when Godot does it, as he WANTS to get caught. And both these moments are very well structured, they're great emotional closers to the cases they're in. For Edgeworth it's potentially slightly anachronistic, as arguably, the Edgeworth we see in that moment is, in a way, the Edgeworth from later on, around the time of Trials and Tribulations and the AA Investigations games, when he's gone though his self-discovery journey, the Von Karma Detox, if you will. But one can also see it as foreshadowing. This is what Edgeworth is going to become now that he's reevaluating his (extremely naive) understanding of laws, justice and prosecution. Fantastic stuff, really
Gant, while not being justified in his motives or sympathetic at all, is not _just_ a crappy dude. What I really like about him is that he feels some kind of remorse after you catch him. Manfred von Karma gets really upset that he's found out and Matt Engarde and Dahlia Hawthorne are straight up sociopaths hat don't care for the harm the do to other people, but Gant is very much aware of the wrong he's done and would change his past actions if he could while still trying to get away with everything because that's just the situation he's gotten himself into and he has to deal with it. He didn't kill Goodman out of evil intent but because he panicked and was about to be found out. It doesn't redeem him or make him a good person, but it serves to make him a very human character.
My favorite is definitely gant, he is both extremely intimidating like von karma but nuanced enough to not be a mustache twirling villain, he's a cold calculating genius and does horrible stuff but for reasons he thinks are justified and good in the long run
Great videos! I love your AA stuff. I want to say one thing though: Acro didn't cry because he got caught, he cried because of what a waste everything turned out to be. It turned out in the most horrible way and he was just sorry for it all. He felt BAD for it -- not even Godot felt bad for what he did.
you said that matt engarde's twist is the best in the series, but i think that "one character" plot twist in 6-5 is the best in the series. It hits you like a truck and you start understanding everything that the character said about them.
Dahlia, Matt, chief Gant and Von karma are definitely my top tiers, when I think about case antagonists those are the ones that instantly come to my head, however, THE ACE DETECTIVE AND PHANTOM THIEF LUKE ATMEY??? An entirely different tier to me, by far my favourite personality I just love the extra camp energy and the twist that the whiny lil twerp we defend like. ACTUALLY is mask-DeMask??? Genuinely caught me so off guard and I loved everything about that trial
Gant and Dahlia, and so too for Manfred strike fear into the player which makes them great villains. I've never wanted anybody to feel guilty more than Engarde playing however, so he's right up there too.
I feel as though Manfred really should be rated S-tier. For me he is probably the most memorable AA villain. I would say that as a culprit, he probably deserves to be where you put him, but as a villain? For the entire case, every time you think you've found a crack, he shuts it down as the prosecutor. Even when you know he's guilty, he always feels imposing, and his 'Objection' still fills me with dread. As the prosecutor, he is one of the most powerful people in the courtroom, and he leverages that well. In other words, when ranking villains, his ability as a prosecutor is why he's such a good villain.
The problem with Manfred von Karma as a killer (aside from lack of motive) is probably just the anticlimactic ending for me. Of course, the metal detector sequence is among the best in the entire series for a ‘Eureka!’ moment, but after that the trial sort of just ends after a flashback cutscene. He’s a REALLY good villain though
I don't know, if I would describe Godot as a villain. He's a murderer, yes, and he's a dick to phoenix most of the time. But he's not a bad person really. And he is, in the end, after justice and the truth, same as Phoenix. I would maybe lable him more as an anti-hero.
Mimi miney also (distantly) ties into DL-6, because she worked with Morgan Fey to frame Maya (because of the Fey rivalry with Maya’s mom/Maya being the next Master in line because of the DL-6 case)
imo furio tigre is kinda underrated. dunno, the way he chews the scenery in the trial segments and despite flubbing his words at the end of the case, somehow managed to bullshit his way into being "phoenix wright" is just endlessly funny to me. that and, despite being a loan shark, is somehow *mildly* sympathetic due to his murder motive being to pay off someones medical bills & never *really* intending to kill glen elg until the meeting. that, and its evident that they had to dump all of the culprit-who-is-kindof-a-goof sauce onto him and atmey when dahlia and godot are so serious, which is not a bad thing at all. recipe for turnabout itself is like, if not for victor kudo (he's funny in the trial sections but bad in the investigation segments) and jean armstrong (being unbearable in the trial AND investigation segments) i think it'd be a pretty good case on par with the stolen turnabout.
You missed morgan la fey who was the mastermind behind mimi's case and aided her during that case as well as behind the last case despite the fact she was behind bars, I am just curious where you would put her personally I would put her in A only because while she has a lot of influence in the cases she is in she doesn't do much outside of them other than being mentioned by pearl sometimes
Matt Engrade isnt S, Shelly de killer is. Matt Engrade is an overall good villain, but he appears in only one case, and other then crafting a good plan and faking his true nature he doesn't do anything. The reason farewell my tournabout (my favourite case) is so good, is because of De Killer, not Matt. The only thing Matt does to make the case good is him convincing Phoenix that he is the good guy. It's De Killer's idea to hire Phoenix and kidnap Maya to get him an aquittal, creating all the twists that make the case good. (without De Killer Phoenix could have just gave up on the case the moment he discovered that Matt was the "real killer") and his character is actually insanely good. He is a really smart man who succeds in killing a lot of people wihtout getting caught, and also does everything possible to make sure his client don't get blamed in any way though a very strong bond of trust. (he even risked his carrer by testifying in court just for his client's safety) That said, Matt engarde is not a bad villain at all, but it's A tier for me. Von Karma, Dahlia, Gant and Godot are always the absolute masterminds of their plans (Morgan Fey isnt the mastermind behind Dahlia's plan, because Dahlia's goal is a different goal), that's the only thing Matt Engarde is missing, that in my opinion makes all the people named above S tier.
Karma should go in S just because of how imposing of a force he is for Phoenix to face off against. I think he almost loses twice on the 1st day because of Karma's tactics. Kinda feel Yanni Yogi should go up to A because of how tragic his case is as well as how he owns up to what he did (no dramatic breakdown) knowing that it doesn't matter since his life was effectively over after the DL-6 Trial and that he still gets revenge since Edgeworth has to continue living with the guilt of killing his own dad even if he doesn't confess and receive punishment for it (until we learn the truth about the case). Acro in C. His plan was extremely convoluted and relied on numerous things happening that could've gone wrong without his knowledge. Like someone else finding the note to Regina and coming in her place, falling victim to his trap that when he couldn't see outside to make sure he actually hit Regina. And again, this is over an accident and Regina's lack of understanding regarding serious issues like death, something that could've been solved with a conversation between the two and her dad. Acro's anger is understandable. Going as far as to kill Regina over his anger is not. Might be biased towards Frank because of him setting the precedent of what to expect in the AA series as well as a later appearance, but I think he should go in B. He's at least more of a satisfying takedown than Red White. Tigre should go in D SOLELY because of how stupid the premise of 3-3 is. Ignoring the whole killing of Glen Elg to steal his virus (when the initial plan to get it failed) to pay off a serious debt he owned for almost killing a mob boss's daughter since that was actually a pretty decent part of the case, it's EXTREMELY dumb how this LITERAL red-skinned man with a cardboard badge managed to fool The Judge, Gumshoe, Maggie, Payne, the Gallery, and pretty much the whole country into thinking he was Phoenix Wright... JUST because they both have the same hairstyle. And I don't recall if he even gets in trouble for that despite it being brought up in the retrial. Also he pulls that crap where pressing him on the wrong things can lead to you getting penalties (defeating the purpose of all that extra, juicy dialogue that was written for all the options). He's not even in a position where that's make sense like von Karma being a dictator of a prosecutor that scares The Judge enough to be able to run the trial himself. He just intimidates people.
while i respect your opinion on von karma being a lesser villain due to his motive, personally i think that it shows what he values. he values perfection, and anything lesser than that, anything, is basically death to him. i feel like this makes him better than gant, because we actually see more into von karmas character than gants. i feel like we can see how the von karmas feel about perfection also through franziska, and how she basically assaults phoenix when she loses. plus how she denies her first loss, calling the trial a sham. i know you dont think the fondest about franziska, but i think shes really interesting when you actually take a look at the perfection thing, and how it probably stems from how and who raised her. if its not perfection, then whats the point? its a feeling some of us can relate to. so while i wouldnt place von karma in s tier, he is at the top of a tier for me. one of my favorite prosectors.
Matt Engarde is the undisputed number 1 villain for me. All the other villains were either established as such from the very beginning or a lying witness revealed to be the murderer or the prosecution. In any case they were either neutral or hostile to you. Engarde on the other hand is "on your team". Your goal is to defend him. And he genuinely seems innocent. While the Magatama is usually used as some bs magic tool to prove without the need for actual proof that someone said the truth, this time it actually works against you by making you believe in a wrong truth: Engarde is innocent of murder. Yet the twist doesn't get revealed too late either. He only convinces the crime to you, yet you still only have 1 day left to defend him and give him an acquittal, thereby sending an innocent person to prison. For the other villains you are determined to do anything to prove them guilty. With Engarde you have this moral dilemma of doing the right thing vs. doing your "job" to protect your guilty client in order to save Maja.
Personality, I think Misty Fey is more the hub that all these spokes connect to, than the DL-6 Incident. She is Mia and Maya's mother, and Morgan's sister (making her Iris, Dhalia, and Pearls's aunt). She usurped the position of the Master from Morgan. (To be fair, Morgan channeled literally no one during the entirety of the franchise, and two of her three daughters were born with no spiritual powers.) She was the spirit medium the police called in to aid in resolving the DL-6 incident. (Gregory Edgeworth didn't know who had killed him, so it wasn't her fault she was wrong.) Without Misty Fey, Mia and Maya wouldn't be born. Even if they had, Misty wouldn't have been disgraced, and wouldn't have left the village, causing Mia to become a lawyer to find out what happened. Without Mia becoming a lawyer, Phoenix Wright would have had what can be assumed to be a much less competent defense attorney, and likely would have gone to prison for Doug Swallow's murder. Frank Sahwit, Dee Vasquez, Yanni Yogi, and all the rest would have gotten away with their crimes. Redd White wouldn't have had anyone to kill in the nonexistent Fey & Co. law offices. Miles Edgeworth would be in prison serving two life sentences for the deaths of Robert Hammond and Gregory Edgeworth. Calisto Yew, Jacques Portsman, Cammy Meele, Lance Amano, Cuercus Alba, would have gotten away with their crimes, as would Simon Keyes, Blaze DeBeste, and Dane Gustavia. If it hadn't been for Misty Fey, the incident at Hazakura Temple would never have happened. Even if it had, if it weren't for Misty Fey, Pearls would have been successful in channeling Dahlia Hawthorne, leading to Maya's murder. Pearls would have been devastated that her corporeal form was used to kill Maya, and she'd swear off spirit channeling forever. Besides, one can argue that the IS-7 Incident is more of a linchpin than DL-6, because DL-6 wouldn't exist without IS-7.
if you think about it, in the main trilogy, Manfred caused the entire thing. If you want to think about every villain in the series, it's definitely Dane Gustavia.
I can't put Gant on top of Von Karma, because for a good while it seemed like Von Karma was another haughty asshole prosecutor, not the mastermind. The second Gant appears, you think "ok this guy is the murderer". He also needlessly complicates his life by announcing that a murder without victim or even a corpse happened on the Evidence Room, bringing both Phoenix and Edgeworth's attention towards it. I gotta admit that Phoenix and Miles' tag teaming against him was great.
I really liked this list, however I would put Luke Atmey in A and Redd White in B because Redd White was good at being that guy with power who also murdered your mentor. And Luke Atmey's voice actor went HARD in the anime. He brought that character to LIFE. Luke Atmey is like the one off villain I go to that I LOOOOOVE. Matt Engarde is the best of the one offs but still. (I watched the anime before the games)
@@spouwnerring I'm only halfway through the first game. College killed me this semester. BUT videos on cases 2 and 3 will be coming as soon as I finish it (which will be soon). I really love how they made investigations fun again in case 2, and then completely flipped it in case 3, breaking third case syndrome.
In my list Von Karma would go straight to D. I get people like him because he's the first real threat Phoenix has to face, but that doesn't mean much to me when he's literally a Scooby Doo villain. His motivation is stupid, his blatant cheating going unpunished breaks you out of the immersion, and he only seems intimidating because the plot keeps contriving in his favor. Honestly, Gant is everything Manfred should have been.
I would've put Richard Wellington higher, just because you personally refused to talk about him. Btw, Acro didn't try to kill Regina because her actions almost killed his brother, but because of her insensitive behaviour that comes from her nurturing. It hurt him to see her smile every day, not realizing what she had done, so he went crazy.
Case 2-1 is hands down the worst case of the three mainline ace attorney games and the most rushed episode in the anime, but Richard Wellington has 2 good things going for him. He has a very memorable breakdown and he is hilarious. The bananas and his face squish is at least something better than mr Sawhit, which honestly i like less than mr Wellington. The music with the final breakdown is honestly the second most memorable breakdown in JFA because the other two just cry. Does Richard Wellington carry 2-1? Absolutely not, but from what I have seen in the game and anime, he is not terrible. Again still the 3rd worst villain in my opinion.
My personal favourites are Gant and Godot. (Who also happen to have my two favourite themes in the series) With Gant, I love how intimidating he is. White and Von Karma are also very intimidating but Gant, being in a position of power that feels even more scary then Whites and I feel executes it way better- and I absolutely love getting him into a corner and finally defeating him. It's so satisfying, especially after a case as long as Rise from the Ashes (And I actually really like how long it is). Gant is a legitimately scary character with all the power he has, and the way he misuses it. I like Godot for entirely different reasons, most of which I'm sure have been said countless times. He's extremely sympathetic, really well written, and while I didn't even think of the possibility of him being the killer until the game asked me to name him it all felt like it slotted into place. That's what I love about Bridge to the Turnabout the most- with all of the evidence and info you're given, the murder doesn't make any sense but as Day 2 goes by it all slots into place bit by bit and at the end it all somehow makes perfect sense. While not one of my favourites, I also do really like Furio Tigre. He's so dumb, so obvious, that I think it adds a ton to the case to have him as a villain, and I especially liked his testimony. I feel like it's the only instance where being penalised for pressing works, I hate it in every other instance but it works really well here since the stuff you can press you have a chance to back out if it turned out to be non-important. I honestly really liked Recipe for Turnabout, it has problems (Kudo) but overall I did really like the case.
Where's Shelly De Killer? But anyway, about the DL-6 incident, I think that incident caused the corruption of Khura'in because the DL-6 incident was two years before Apollo's dad gets murdered.
I would say Morgan Fey, she was an absolute psycho who even in prison tried to accomplish her goals. Also I like recurring vilains and she was basically one.
Mimi wanted her sisters ID, she showed Dr. Hotti a pic of her, she wanted to escape her wrecked life and live as her sister. Her motive was really amazing, she knew that she'd lose everything if people found out she was alive. Acro's bro didn't even die... that case was so terrible... I mean look at regina she doesn't even know the word death, how can you be mad at someone so pure and gullible? Dahlia is such a good villain she almost got phoenix, winston payne , Maya and godot killed. Dahlia herself is probably the one who has the 2nd most kills in the entire series. She killed 3 people and almost killed 3. She's the only Ace attorney villain featured in multiple cases. She haunted Phoenix and Mia even in death... and she turned Godot into a villain... and indirectly lead to misty fey's demise. in total her actions lead 4 deaths and 4 close calls one even more than any other. Payne could have taken Coldkiller X to prove his point. Phoenix would have taken them if he found them. Godot barely survived the poisoning and Maya almost died in that cave, she was just lucky that she was the one who channeled dahlia since she was her intended victim... She's manipulating any man quite easily and exploits them untill she kills them off or leaves them behind... but mostly she gets rid of witnesses.
Technically Shelly de Killer and Morgan Fey - Pearls, Iris' and Dahlias mother - deserve a spot on this list too. De Killer was used as a tool and only did his job but was a murderer nonetheless. Morgan ordered Mini Miney to kill Turner Grey and upon meeting her daughter Dahlia in deathrow ordered her to kill Maya (she initially wanted to kill Dahlia herself so Pearl could inherit the position of kurain master, but given that Dahlia was already im deathrow she had other plans).
Damon Gant was the ideal that Redd White aspired to be, but White was a bumbling clown (no offense, Moe!) who couldn't come anywhere close to Gant's level.
Von Karma and Dahlia share a similar trait: they had incredible concepts but weren't executed to their full potential. Manfred suffers from just not having enough time with him to actually learn about his character and see the monster of a man in depth, while Dahlia was just poor writing. She's said to be this incredibly cunning girl who can fool everyone, but she's really bad at it and I don't like it. Sure, she has the judge and whatever Prosecutor there is fooled, but the player is never once fooled by her. You, the person playing, shouldn't be able to so easily see past her disguise, and it should be a lot harder for either Mia or Phoenix to see the real Dahlia. Engarde had us fooled up until the reveal. The hair flip showing his scars and his true self leaves us reeling in shock. We're in disbelief, however it isn't written in an unbelievable way. Dahlia should have been the same way. The reveal that she was the true killer should have had the same shock
yeah, dahlia may be important, but as se encounter her she is just plainly evil but everyone just ignores it because she is cute. for more manfred von karma you should play the edgeworth games, especially the second one I feel makes mandred von karma a better character
I wanted to do a novel trilogy version of the series that is a bit more grounded in realism and mostly focused on the Fey family story. Some aspects would be to make the overtly evil characters more subtle, mostly Morgan and Dahlia. Morgan would be a more sophisticated, calm kind of evil with a less ridiculous hairdo. While Dahlia would be and actually good and intelligent actress. I love Dahlia, but your argument, sadly, is valid.
althoguh she's not a killer i would've loved to see Morgan Fey on the list as she is the mind behind the murder in case 2-2 and has an antagonistic role in bridge as well. i wouldn't put her in like S tier but I do think that her whole obsession with being the controlling person of the fey clan through pearl is quite interesting.
I would argue that Vasquez is only B tier because tbh she's a little incompetent, and for me at least she loses out on sympathy. First off her "crime" was an accident caused by Hammer himself, so if she had just told the court the truth to begin with her lawyer could've easily made the argument that, technically, she didn't do anything and is innocent; she had no reason to lie and frame someone. The other thing is that she gets caught by saying she "knew" Hammer was injured when in fact it was Powers who was injured, but this is something everyone learned during the trial; if Vasquez had just paid a little more attention, she could've easily adapted her story and avoided getting caught. TlDr; For me, Vasquez is B tier because she could've simply not lied. But she lied anyway, and could've had the perfect crime if she didn't botch it at the last second.
2:52 Well Spoilers for I2-3 It wasn't necessarily because he got a penalty he decided to kill Gregory, if he had lived he would've reopened the IS-7 Case & might've beaten von Karma
As an actual villain i sorta disagree with where you put manfred my reasoning is yeah, he was responsible for the whole edgeworth and dl6 trial, but he dug himself a grave by trying to ruin edgeworths life, technically manfred already did by turning edgeworth, into the prosecutor you see in episode 2 of the game, he could've secretly killed miles abd got away with it later, but instead he brought up the dl6 trial, The one he should've known that if he got foubd out it would've been over and it was over, as a villain manfred was bot very snart yeah he may look it, but when going against good defense attorneys like pheonix or gregory, he becomes not as smart, cause in the gregory trial greg was smart to enough to get manfred a penalty. When manfred went against pheonix, he should've saw the connection. IMO manfred was a good final boss but over all as a villian and how he tried to plot the story he is overrated
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It’s gotta be Dahlia for me. Manfred and Engarde are great but each are really only relevant for one case. Dahlia is built up so well throughout T&T and finally taking her down at the end is extremely satisfying
Idk man, Edgeworth from case 2-3 is basically a Manfred wannabee until the end of case 3
eh tbh manfred kinda started the entire series but for real he only showed up once and then just idk gone
For Manfred I think the best way to put it is "everything they try to do with him they do amazing the issue is they don't do enough"
Pretty much. But he's the most important killer in the series no doubt. I'm going to talk abotb DL-6 and it's impacts at length in my Bridge video, but like I said here everything traces back to what happened in that elevator.
I agree, he was very under utilized and I wish we could have had more time with him to really explore him as a character
@@tbone415 Spoilers for AAI2....
To an extent, we can also blame Blaise Debeste for everything that happens in the trilogy, given he's the guy who covered up the SS-5 incident, had an indirect hand in the IS-7 incident and gave Manfred his penalty for something that Blaise covered up himself, leading to the DL-6 incident.
@@sohumchatterjee9 actually, we can trace it farther: the reason the penalty even happened was due to AA2-3, where a baker killed and artist.
TLDR: ace attorney happened due to two bad parents trying to win a baking contest.
what they do with manfred von karma in edgeworth's two games adds to him i'd say, but then again this is a judgement of the trilogy, not outside games.
And justice for all imo successfully explored the “sympathetic killer” way more than the 1st game. all the culprits had their lives ruined and contemplated suicide.
In the last case, Adrian Andrews isn’t a killer but she was almost accused as one, by you no less, and you get heavy amounts of sympathy for her also. JFA also explores all the culprits thinking about killing themselves. Mimi miney, acro, and Adrian Andrews all went through so much and thought about ending it, or taking matters into their own hands because “they” didn’t have justice. JFA is a very loaded and underrated game in terms of deeper meanings
Hard agree
Even wellington is sympathetic, just an artist (a con artist, but an artist nontheless) that loves large bananas
Mimi did ask for her sister's identity- her life was ruined, so she pretended she was her sister to start again. She also killed Grey not just for her life getting ruined, but also because he was asking Maya to channel her spirit-- even though she was still alive. She felt she had to kill him to protect herself from being found out
Fear of discovery doesn't mean all that much when the channeling in question received no outside buzz outside Lotta's arrival. The last channeling done by a Master of Kurain resulted in Misty Fey's disgraceful tabloid treatment and self-imposed exile. Not that the Misty Fey subplot matters much here compared to either of the other games in the trilogy, but I do digress...
Here's a thought: why couldn't Miney and Morgan have just secretly/quietly let the new Master of Kurain fail the channeling on her own? Supposing Maya had failed to channel Miney, there's no guarantee at all that Grey would assume she's still out there. Pearl later fails to channel someone dead in T&T and assumed she was too weak to do it. That's probably how Maya would take it too-- she'd only ever summoned Mia before, and lost even that temporarily before returning home. _And_ the failure the more likely assumption for Grey to make-- that channeling is a quackery and fraud. (Remember, he doesn't even trust weather forecasts.) We're supposed to believe he was truly convinced it was real? that it wasn't a last-ditch low-chance effort to save his reputation?
Morgan totally could've spun Maya's simpler failure to channel as a way to get Pearl higher consideration for the position of Master, but nah-- Morgan wanted Maya's reputation in shambles (or straight-up jailed) and Miney just wanted Grey dead.
I mean, think about it: What made Grey so hung up on the idea of channeling? The only reason we're given is that he got the idea for the channeling from Ini's interest in parapsychology. Conversation with Ini brought him (and her) to Kurain. Once he was set on it, she purposely laid that trap with Morgan, to kill him as herself.
She's cold-blooded. Almost as much as the redhead identity thief in game 3, just with a better excuse.
Oh, right. Forgot that Grey brought a gun to force the confessional. He _must've_ thought he was gonna talk to Mimi, so he brought a convincer. But again, if the channeling goes nowhere, there's no reason to use it.
Can't threaten a Medium to do the impossible, after all. It really is the best way this all could've gone down, but those darn conspirators... feh.
It's also worth noting that the firing of the gun surprised Miney _and_ Morgan, who nonetheless set up this elaborate costume double disguise in a locked room with a unique key. Because sleuthing, I guess. 🤷♂️
Miney was still conveniently squatting by the folding screen after having stashed Maya's unconscious body in the box behind the folding screen _when she got shot at._ Her reaction? She grabs his gun, she shoots him, point-blank, powder-burning his face.
Her 'motive' in that moment was that she was straight-up pissed at Grey.
I love Miney as a villain and I love JFA.
But... _every dang case in the game is a hot mess._
Except for the tutorial.
The anime takes Mimi's role in the case a step further--she only wanted to fool Dr. Grey into thinking Mimi was the one being channeled, she never intended to kill him. Morgan however said "Nah, even better: kill that dude and pin it on my own niece. You WILL do this, otherwise I'll expose your secret."
I kinda like that take on Mimi a lot more because after the malpractice and her sister's death, I doubt she wanted anymore blood on her hands.
If we're speaking the role of villain rather than specifically murderer, I would have ranked Manfred von Karma in S tier. Motive wise he sure is lacking compared to other villains in the trilogy but I'm rather interested by the way he was written, his obsession with keeping an absolutely perfect record to the point it leads to murder when that one objective is challenged, the strong impact he has on the series as a whole since the DL-6 incident is the root of every main events of the series, and he was the main reason for it to occur, not to mention how wonderfully executed his role as an antagonist was executed in Turnabout Goodbyes.
He constantly pushes the player into a corner, completely turns around the way players usually play the game by that point by preventing the player from gaining too much information from witnesses, manipulating the judge into granting his every demands, issuing legal threats, physically assaulting the player and just overall by being such a intimidating, intelligent and imposing individual to go against which clearly sets the difference between him and Edgeworth.
He has that powerful final boss and main overarching antagonist aura around him and I don't think the effect he left on the player and Phoenix (or even whoever Manfred manipulated such as Edgeworth) was ever matched in the entire franchise.
Absolute S tier villain for me, thought I agree that if only considered a killer, he isn't really deserving of S tier unlike people like Gant, Godot, Engarde, etc. His antagonistic role was more focused on the mental manipulation and his genius to trick all those around him to gain what he wants as well as the results of his deeds.
I really enjoy your character analyses and I am looking forward to what you will propose next
Got it on the money. He did lacked a good motive but this is a man that has been established to do ANYTHING to keep his perfect record in check. Murder for no good reason is definitely something he will do
I can't particularly argue with any of these rankings. Gant in particular feels amazing to bring down, he just feels so huge an untouchable.
I would say one of my favorite villains is one that's more subtle and never directly takes anyone's life, and that's Morgan Fey. She's a large part of the root cause of Dahlia Hawthorne's self-centered sociopathy.
It really is a testament to Takumi's writing skill how intricately the Fey family, the DL-6 incident and all the chains of causality affect everything in the original trilogy
All major villains.
Atmosphere: Manfred von Karma
Competence: Damon Gant
Meta impact: Matt Engarde
In-universe impact: Dahlia Hawthorne
Redeeming traits: Godot
Shelly doesn't get a first place, but he ranks high in all the above.
So Shelly is 1st in "overall".
@@RaiShaFIN You could say so. He has the best balance.
== S==
Manfred von Karma: pretty much the easiest S tier for me. His motive was well established, and yes pride is a very realistic motive. He got away with his murder for some 15 years. Not only that, he raised someone into taking the fall for him in those 15 years. He actively hinders you during your investigations by taking away the DL-6 evidence. Of course he is also a massive threat in court. This man was a huge wall to overcome, and it took both luck and skill to do so.
Damon Gant: just like Von Karma he got away with killing someone for years. He also set up other people to take the fall for him. Even when eventually caught, he resisted in court for a long time. It took both Phoenix and Edgeworth to eventually trap him, which shows how tough he was as an opponent.
Matt Engarde: another quite easy S tier. The murder is well planned and actually makes use of an assassin. He completely tricks both Phoenix and the player at the early stages of the case. The best part is that he does actually win for the most part. It is only because of Maya's channeling magic that he ends up losing in the end, otherwise Phoenix would have defended him all the way. Definitely the scariest villain in the trilogy.
Dahlia Hawthorne: fantastic villain. Yes she loses all the time, but like was said in the video that's part of her character. It is undeniable though that her actions have an impact, even if she loses in the end. Every villain loses in the end. What matters the most to me is the effort they put up, and the mark that they leave on the story. She has both of those in spades.
Godot: don't have much to say here. This man is a legend. Very sympathetic and a well crafted murder.
== A ==
Ini Miney: very sympathetic as a villain. It is very easy to understand her motive. The plot she concocted with Morgan was also very well made, and quite intricate. Her loss was mostly based on chance, and not her own mistakes. If it wasn't for Pearls being Pearls, her case was incredibly solid.
Luke Atmey: i really like thus guy. His plot was well done and he was very close to getting away with it. Rarely do we see villains actually abusing the legal system in their favor, and he did just that. His wackiness I think also lent itself well in AA. He is definitely the most memorable villain to me.
== B ==
Frank Shawit: did pretty well for being the villain in the tutorial in the first case ever. If it wasn't for the fact that we see him commit the crime in the opening cutscene, he would be a decent challenge.
Yanni Yogi: you got someone who's life was ruined by the legal system, specifically by Hammond. His motive is pretty much as good as it can get, to the point where it's the most sympathetic. What keeps him from climbing higher is that the murder plot was not his own.
== C ==
Red White: Supposedly a very powerful and influential man. Unfortunately that only really shines through on a surface level. I would have like to see more interference from him in your investigations, and even in court. At least he had a significant impact on the story.
Dee-Vasques: she was kind of smart and did a pretty good job at hiding her killing, which actually was mostly just self-defense. Her biggest mistake was trying to hide that in the first place, which is why she's not climbing higher than C tier. Having mob connections and such was an interesting idea, that ultimately didn't actually have any effect on the player. Just like with Red White I would have liked to see more interference from her during investigations.
Richard Wellington: while I'm tempted to put him in D tier, I don't think he's that bad. He did make a legitimate effort to hide the murder, and was relatively successful. His biggest mistake in the end was taking the wrong phone, and well he couldn't have known in advance that he and Phoenix had the same phone. For a tutorial villain I think he did pretty well, though not as good as others.
== D ==
Acro: while I think he has a decent motivation, that's kind of where it stops. His murder plot relies on so many different coincidences and conditionals. It is hardly well crafted. Him thinking on his feet and hiding the bust was nice though.
Furio Tigre: this whole case was just ridiculous. His plot only works if you massively suspend your disbelief. A bad villain in a bad case.
Nice list! Here are some of my thoughts.
Gant is maybe my favorite character in the series. I like how the game manages to clearly showcase that he's evil while at the same time give him humanizing moments. And I don't mean human = sympathetic here, but rather that he feels slightly more nuanced than many of the more flat out evil antagonists. This is especially noticable in how dissapointed the Judge is with him (how Gant seemingly always used to be a great member of the force) but also with Gant's comments towards Edgeworth, where he implies that they are alike.
Not to mention everything else about him. He has such a strong and memorable presence, partly thanks to his design, sprites and musical theme.
I'd probably put Redd White at absolute bottom tier. He's so conceptually interesting, but he should've not been such an early antagonist imo. Like, this dude is a blackmailing oligarch with massive amount of influence... and it then turns out that he's just a massive clown who is ridiculously easy to take down. Which especially feels off to me, considering how important 1-2 is. For me, he's by far that case's biggest weakness.
I generally don't like 3-3, but it has a couple of strengths and I honestly think Tigre is one of them. The silly concept around his character alone (his thick NY accent coupled with being a freaking Phoenix-clone tiger man) and how well it goes with the very silly tone of the case. He's a clown, but a pretty funny one, I think.
Hard agree on Redd White. He should have been a much harder villain, and should have come later in the series. I like his concept, I really do, but he's just so easy despite talking such a big game... it's like the dialogue tells you the stakes are high, but then the gameplay shows they're low
Wrong. He is not a clown.
He is the entire circus.
Luke Warm take...... Luke Atmy was a genius for a second case. I think its underrated how smart his plan was. Its just that phoenix was the one who took the case.
6:09 that was actually shellys idea, because he is suprised when he finds out that Phoenix knows who De Killer is. Engarde only accepts Phoenix as his attorney after he puts two and two together and realizes that it was part of Shelly’s plan to acquit him. (Even though Shelly blackmailing the judge would've been a better move)
Also will you do any videos on the TGAA?
So much good AA content lately makes me wanna miss AA. I think my fav is either Godot, Kristoph or Dahlia just because they became a good villains 👍🏻
Thank you!
What I really like about Gyakuten Kenji 2 is how much it's tied to the DL-6 incident: it explains everything that was left unsolved, adds some very interesting details (like Blaise Debeste being the one to penalize Von Karma) and also fills in some aspects of the over-arching story (for example, the reason why only 3 prosecutors wear their badges). I mean, I only remember half of what that game explained, and I still find it so fascinating!
To me Damon Gant was the best. Felt like the true final boss of the first game, filled with mystery and intimidating aura, Completely mind broke Edgeworth and led to his character development, played with the Judge's heart, nearly ruined Lana's life and still managed to get her to commit crimes against her will still managing to somewhat drag her down with him, broke Jake Marshall and the Angel Starr to the point where they were left disgraced and paranoid, essentially congratulated "Wrighto" for winning the game in somewhat of a 4th wall break, multiple time offender, very difficult to investigate and convict compared to other villains, cool and somehow intimidating theme, memeable turboclapping breakdown, etc etc.
I both hated yet somehow respected him as I played that case.
And unlike von Karma he manages to be disarmingly jolly and polite for most of it. Let's all go swimming!
Gant's case is probably my favourite from the trilogy. It goes so incredibly wild and confusing so fast. The more you find out, the less you understand until the very end really. And Gant himself, he's a great terrible person. Always has another trick up his sleeve, wields his authority with even more strength than Quercus Alba from Edgeworth 1. And speaking of Miles, It's also a great moment for him when, as it becomes increasingly obvious that Gant is behind everything, Edgeworth starts to furiously look for ways in which he can help steer the case in Phoenix's favour and keep things going. The only other moment like this we get is when Godot does it, as he WANTS to get caught. And both these moments are very well structured, they're great emotional closers to the cases they're in.
For Edgeworth it's potentially slightly anachronistic, as arguably, the Edgeworth we see in that moment is, in a way, the Edgeworth from later on, around the time of Trials and Tribulations and the AA Investigations games, when he's gone though his self-discovery journey, the Von Karma Detox, if you will. But one can also see it as foreshadowing. This is what Edgeworth is going to become now that he's reevaluating his (extremely naive) understanding of laws, justice and prosecution. Fantastic stuff, really
Gant, while not being justified in his motives or sympathetic at all, is not _just_ a crappy dude.
What I really like about him is that he feels some kind of remorse after you catch him. Manfred von Karma gets really upset that he's found out and Matt Engarde and Dahlia Hawthorne are straight up sociopaths hat don't care for the harm the do to other people, but Gant is very much aware of the wrong he's done and would change his past actions if he could while still trying to get away with everything because that's just the situation he's gotten himself into and he has to deal with it. He didn't kill Goodman out of evil intent but because he panicked and was about to be found out.
It doesn't redeem him or make him a good person, but it serves to make him a very human character.
My favorite is definitely gant, he is both extremely intimidating like von karma but nuanced enough to not be a mustache twirling villain, he's a cold calculating genius and does horrible stuff but for reasons he thinks are justified and good in the long run
Those 10 second stares of his...They feel like they go for hours...
How could you put Luke so low on this list? He's the funniest guy in the whole trilogy when I voice him in my head.
Great videos! I love your AA stuff. I want to say one thing though: Acro didn't cry because he got caught, he cried because of what a waste everything turned out to be. It turned out in the most horrible way and he was just sorry for it all. He felt BAD for it -- not even Godot felt bad for what he did.
you said that matt engarde's twist is the best in the series, but i think that "one character" plot twist in 6-5 is the best in the series. It hits you like a truck and you start understanding everything that the character said about them.
is that dd case 6? or soj case 5?
@@catalyst539 soj case 5
Dahlia, Matt, chief Gant and Von karma are definitely my top tiers, when I think about case antagonists those are the ones that instantly come to my head, however, THE ACE DETECTIVE AND PHANTOM THIEF LUKE ATMEY??? An entirely different tier to me, by far my favourite personality I just love the extra camp energy and the twist that the whiny lil twerp we defend like. ACTUALLY is mask-DeMask??? Genuinely caught me so off guard and I loved everything about that trial
Its amazing how basically all of ace attorney happened because Von Karma got a single penalty.
Gant and Dahlia, and so too for Manfred strike fear into the player which makes them great villains.
I've never wanted anybody to feel guilty more than Engarde playing however, so he's right up there too.
Imagine losing to a metal detector.
lmao
After getting bodied by a parrot
I feel as though Manfred really should be rated S-tier. For me he is probably the most memorable AA villain.
I would say that as a culprit, he probably deserves to be where you put him, but as a villain? For the entire case, every time you think you've found a crack, he shuts it down as the prosecutor. Even when you know he's guilty, he always feels imposing, and his 'Objection' still fills me with dread. As the prosecutor, he is one of the most powerful people in the courtroom, and he leverages that well.
In other words, when ranking villains, his ability as a prosecutor is why he's such a good villain.
The problem with Manfred von Karma as a killer (aside from lack of motive) is probably just the anticlimactic ending for me. Of course, the metal detector sequence is among the best in the entire series for a ‘Eureka!’ moment, but after that the trial sort of just ends after a flashback cutscene.
He’s a REALLY good villain though
I just want to say, keep up the great videos.
Thank you! Gonna be a few days until my next one most likely but its going to be my longest video by far so it'll be worth.
I don't know, if I would describe Godot as a villain.
He's a murderer, yes, and he's a dick to phoenix most of the time. But he's not a bad person really. And he is, in the end, after justice and the truth, same as Phoenix.
I would maybe lable him more as an anti-hero.
Just found your channel but it's helping me get through a bad flu
Get well soon!
Gahahaha as a content creator I have to, but I've been binging your videos
Regarding the anime, I suggest you check out the bloopers. Some of the jokes the voice actors make are amazing.
I love the bloopers!
8:10 I'd honestly love to see you do reaction or review videos for each individual anime episode, and maybe compare them to the game counterparts!
Mimi miney also (distantly) ties into DL-6, because she worked with Morgan Fey to frame Maya (because of the Fey rivalry with Maya’s mom/Maya being the next Master in line because of the DL-6 case)
imo furio tigre is kinda underrated. dunno, the way he chews the scenery in the trial segments and despite flubbing his words at the end of the case, somehow managed to bullshit his way into being "phoenix wright" is just endlessly funny to me. that and, despite being a loan shark, is somehow *mildly* sympathetic due to his murder motive being to pay off someones medical bills & never *really* intending to kill glen elg until the meeting.
that, and its evident that they had to dump all of the culprit-who-is-kindof-a-goof sauce onto him and atmey when dahlia and godot are so serious, which is not a bad thing at all.
recipe for turnabout itself is like, if not for victor kudo (he's funny in the trial sections but bad in the investigation segments) and jean armstrong (being unbearable in the trial AND investigation segments) i think it'd be a pretty good case on par with the stolen turnabout.
Yo I just realized this is the list I made on my old account, good shit!
You missed morgan la fey who was the mastermind behind mimi's case and aided her during that case as well as behind the last case despite the fact she was behind bars, I am just curious where you would put her personally I would put her in A only because while she has a lot of influence in the cases she is in she doesn't do much outside of them other than being mentioned by pearl sometimes
I made a teir list of every ace attorney culprit based on how well thwir murder plots would actually work in the real world
4:39 If faceal-reconstrution surgery becomes THAT advanced, it's going to get outlawed for SURE.
Matt Engrade isnt S, Shelly de killer is.
Matt Engrade is an overall good villain, but he appears in only one case, and other then crafting a good plan and faking his true nature he doesn't do anything. The reason farewell my tournabout (my favourite case) is so good, is because of De Killer, not Matt. The only thing Matt does to make the case good is him convincing Phoenix that he is the good guy. It's De Killer's idea to hire Phoenix and kidnap Maya to get him an aquittal, creating all the twists that make the case good. (without De Killer Phoenix could have just gave up on the case the moment he discovered that Matt was the "real killer") and his character is actually insanely good. He is a really smart man who succeds in killing a lot of people wihtout getting caught, and also does everything possible to make sure his client don't get blamed in any way though a very strong bond of trust.
(he even risked his carrer by testifying in court just for his client's safety)
That said, Matt engarde is not a bad villain at all, but it's A tier for me. Von Karma, Dahlia, Gant and Godot are always the absolute masterminds of their plans (Morgan Fey isnt the mastermind behind Dahlia's plan, because Dahlia's goal is a different goal), that's the only thing Matt Engarde is missing, that in my opinion makes all the people named above S tier.
Karma should go in S just because of how imposing of a force he is for Phoenix to face off against. I think he almost loses twice on the 1st day because of Karma's tactics.
Kinda feel Yanni Yogi should go up to A because of how tragic his case is as well as how he owns up to what he did (no dramatic breakdown) knowing that it doesn't matter since his life was effectively over after the DL-6 Trial and that he still gets revenge since Edgeworth has to continue living with the guilt of killing his own dad even if he doesn't confess and receive punishment for it (until we learn the truth about the case).
Acro in C. His plan was extremely convoluted and relied on numerous things happening that could've gone wrong without his knowledge. Like someone else finding the note to Regina and coming in her place, falling victim to his trap that when he couldn't see outside to make sure he actually hit Regina. And again, this is over an accident and Regina's lack of understanding regarding serious issues like death, something that could've been solved with a conversation between the two and her dad. Acro's anger is understandable. Going as far as to kill Regina over his anger is not.
Might be biased towards Frank because of him setting the precedent of what to expect in the AA series as well as a later appearance, but I think he should go in B. He's at least more of a satisfying takedown than Red White.
Tigre should go in D SOLELY because of how stupid the premise of 3-3 is. Ignoring the whole killing of Glen Elg to steal his virus (when the initial plan to get it failed) to pay off a serious debt he owned for almost killing a mob boss's daughter since that was actually a pretty decent part of the case, it's EXTREMELY dumb how this LITERAL red-skinned man with a cardboard badge managed to fool The Judge, Gumshoe, Maggie, Payne, the Gallery, and pretty much the whole country into thinking he was Phoenix Wright... JUST because they both have the same hairstyle. And I don't recall if he even gets in trouble for that despite it being brought up in the retrial. Also he pulls that crap where pressing him on the wrong things can lead to you getting penalties (defeating the purpose of all that extra, juicy dialogue that was written for all the options). He's not even in a position where that's make sense like von Karma being a dictator of a prosecutor that scares The Judge enough to be able to run the trial himself. He just intimidates people.
while i respect your opinion on von karma being a lesser villain due to his motive, personally i think that it shows what he values. he values perfection, and anything lesser than that, anything, is basically death to him. i feel like this makes him better than gant, because we actually see more into von karmas character than gants.
i feel like we can see how the von karmas feel about perfection also through franziska, and how she basically assaults phoenix when she loses. plus how she denies her first loss, calling the trial a sham.
i know you dont think the fondest about franziska, but i think shes really interesting when you actually take a look at the perfection thing, and how it probably stems from how and who raised her. if its not perfection, then whats the point? its a feeling some of us can relate to.
so while i wouldnt place von karma in s tier, he is at the top of a tier for me. one of my favorite prosectors.
Matt Engarde is the undisputed number 1 villain for me. All the other villains were either established as such from the very beginning or a lying witness revealed to be the murderer or the prosecution. In any case they were either neutral or hostile to you.
Engarde on the other hand is "on your team". Your goal is to defend him. And he genuinely seems innocent. While the Magatama is usually used as some bs magic tool to prove without the need for actual proof that someone said the truth, this time it actually works against you by making you believe in a wrong truth: Engarde is innocent of murder.
Yet the twist doesn't get revealed too late either. He only convinces the crime to you, yet you still only have 1 day left to defend him and give him an acquittal, thereby sending an innocent person to prison. For the other villains you are determined to do anything to prove them guilty. With Engarde you have this moral dilemma of doing the right thing vs. doing your "job" to protect your guilty client in order to save Maja.
No contest, my man Luke Atmey is the best
I agree
Zvarri!
Personality, I think Misty Fey is more the hub that all these spokes connect to, than the DL-6 Incident.
She is Mia and Maya's mother, and Morgan's sister (making her Iris, Dhalia, and Pearls's aunt).
She usurped the position of the Master from Morgan. (To be fair, Morgan channeled literally no one during the entirety of the franchise, and two of her three daughters were born with no spiritual powers.)
She was the spirit medium the police called in to aid in resolving the DL-6 incident. (Gregory Edgeworth didn't know who had killed him, so it wasn't her fault she was wrong.) Without Misty Fey, Mia and Maya wouldn't be born. Even if they had, Misty wouldn't have been disgraced, and wouldn't have left the village, causing Mia to become a lawyer to find out what happened.
Without Mia becoming a lawyer, Phoenix Wright would have had what can be assumed to be a much less competent defense attorney, and likely would have gone to prison for Doug Swallow's murder. Frank Sahwit, Dee Vasquez, Yanni Yogi, and all the rest would have gotten away with their crimes. Redd White wouldn't have had anyone to kill in the nonexistent Fey & Co. law offices. Miles Edgeworth would be in prison serving two life sentences for the deaths of Robert Hammond and Gregory Edgeworth. Calisto Yew, Jacques Portsman, Cammy Meele, Lance Amano, Cuercus Alba, would have gotten away with their crimes, as would Simon Keyes, Blaze DeBeste, and Dane Gustavia.
If it hadn't been for Misty Fey, the incident at Hazakura Temple would never have happened. Even if it had, if it weren't for Misty Fey, Pearls would have been successful in channeling Dahlia Hawthorne, leading to Maya's murder. Pearls would have been devastated that her corporeal form was used to kill Maya, and she'd swear off spirit channeling forever.
Besides, one can argue that the IS-7 Incident is more of a linchpin than DL-6, because DL-6 wouldn't exist without IS-7.
I think Luke Atmey should be higher if you look at his plans, man had an elaborate plot to get founded guilty for theft just for an alibi, the genius
keep the good stuff coming
Mimi Miney is my favorite because when my brother played the game I got to voice her and it was extremely fun
if you think about it, in the main trilogy, Manfred caused the entire thing.
If you want to think about every villain in the series, it's definitely Dane Gustavia.
Can you do an ranking of best Great ace attorney villains please?
They are great too.
I can't put Gant on top of Von Karma, because for a good while it seemed like Von Karma was another haughty asshole prosecutor, not the mastermind. The second Gant appears, you think "ok this guy is the murderer". He also needlessly complicates his life by announcing that a murder without victim or even a corpse happened on the Evidence Room, bringing both Phoenix and Edgeworth's attention towards it. I gotta admit that Phoenix and Miles' tag teaming against him was great.
Honestly I feel the exact same way for this tier list
I really liked this list, however I would put Luke Atmey in A and Redd White in B because Redd White was good at being that guy with power who also murdered your mentor. And Luke Atmey's voice actor went HARD in the anime. He brought that character to LIFE. Luke Atmey is like the one off villain I go to that I LOOOOOVE. Matt Engarde is the best of the one offs but still. (I watched the anime before the games)
I vote for Gant. My reasoning? I refuse to elaborate.
So are you planning on making a tier list on the modern AA games and the spin-offs?
Yeah gotta finish Great Ace Attorney though.
@@tbone415 how many bosses did you already defeat?
@@spouwnerring I'm only halfway through the first game. College killed me this semester. BUT videos on cases 2 and 3 will be coming as soon as I finish it (which will be soon). I really love how they made investigations fun again in case 2, and then completely flipped it in case 3, breaking third case syndrome.
The only reason Matt Engarde failed was because he planned on blackmailing Shelly De Killer. Had he not done that, he would have succeeded.
This is why I think he is THE BEST villain in the entire series.
Looking to to your video about DL-6
The right title should be:
"Who is the best Ace Attorney Trilogy villain, and why it is Dahlia Hawthorne?"
Played through the trilogy and actually liked the third cases for each game
Don't let RTGame hear your Von Karma rating.
Best villain to me was Morgan fey. She was the ultimate karen...
If we get a overall character tier list and Dr. Hotti isnt S-Tier, i gonna be sad.
My boy, kristoph- i mean, luke atmey
I think Dahlia not having the last name “Fey” throws a lot of people off.
“We’ll be disgusting”
Redd Whites problem is that he’s the second villain. He’s this powerful person who is easily taken down at the beginninng
I think we all knew Daliha would go to s teir
In my list Von Karma would go straight to D. I get people like him because he's the first real threat Phoenix has to face, but that doesn't mean much to me when he's literally a Scooby Doo villain.
His motivation is stupid, his blatant cheating going unpunished breaks you out of the immersion, and he only seems intimidating because the plot keeps contriving in his favor.
Honestly, Gant is everything Manfred should have been.
I would've put Richard Wellington higher, just because you personally refused to talk about him. Btw, Acro didn't try to kill Regina because her actions almost killed his brother, but because of her insensitive behaviour that comes from her nurturing. It hurt him to see her smile every day, not realizing what she had done, so he went crazy.
Case 2-1 is hands down the worst case of the three mainline ace attorney games and the most rushed episode in the anime, but Richard Wellington has 2 good things going for him. He has a very memorable breakdown and he is hilarious. The bananas and his face squish is at least something better than mr Sawhit, which honestly i like less than mr Wellington. The music with the final breakdown is honestly the second most memorable breakdown in JFA because the other two just cry. Does Richard Wellington carry 2-1? Absolutely not, but from what I have seen in the game and anime, he is not terrible. Again still the 3rd worst villain in my opinion.
Interesting that you rated the killers *as* killers.
I would've expected just having the killers rated just as how good of characters they are.
I think that would be Quantum TV
Everything can be retraced back not to DL-6, but to IS-7,
Correct, but I was talking about 1-4 not I2-3. I mean technically everything that happens can be traced back further and further.
Gant more like GOAT
My personal favourites are Gant and Godot. (Who also happen to have my two favourite themes in the series)
With Gant, I love how intimidating he is. White and Von Karma are also very intimidating but Gant, being in a position of power that feels even more scary then Whites and I feel executes it way better- and I absolutely love getting him into a corner and finally defeating him. It's so satisfying, especially after a case as long as Rise from the Ashes (And I actually really like how long it is). Gant is a legitimately scary character with all the power he has, and the way he misuses it.
I like Godot for entirely different reasons, most of which I'm sure have been said countless times. He's extremely sympathetic, really well written, and while I didn't even think of the possibility of him being the killer until the game asked me to name him it all felt like it slotted into place. That's what I love about Bridge to the Turnabout the most- with all of the evidence and info you're given, the murder doesn't make any sense but as Day 2 goes by it all slots into place bit by bit and at the end it all somehow makes perfect sense.
While not one of my favourites, I also do really like Furio Tigre. He's so dumb, so obvious, that I think it adds a ton to the case to have him as a villain, and I especially liked his testimony. I feel like it's the only instance where being penalised for pressing works, I hate it in every other instance but it works really well here since the stuff you can press you have a chance to back out if it turned out to be non-important. I honestly really liked Recipe for Turnabout, it has problems (Kudo) but overall I did really like the case.
Technically, in the trilogy at least, everyone but dahlia and godot are single case only killers.
Where's Shelly De Killer?
But anyway, about the DL-6 incident, I think that incident caused the corruption of Khura'in because the DL-6 incident was two years before Apollo's dad gets murdered.
Probably out killing ppl
@@tbone415
nah he probably out sniping the phantom
I was quite like Frank Sahwits face.
im a big fan of acro and luke atmey personally 😅
I would say Morgan Fey, she was an absolute psycho who even in prison tried to accomplish her goals.
Also I like recurring vilains and she was basically one.
Mimi wanted her sisters ID, she showed Dr. Hotti a pic of her, she wanted to escape her wrecked life and live as her sister. Her motive was really amazing, she knew that she'd lose everything if people found out she was alive.
Acro's bro didn't even die... that case was so terrible... I mean look at regina she doesn't even know the word death, how can you be mad at someone so pure and gullible?
Dahlia is such a good villain she almost got phoenix, winston payne , Maya and godot killed.
Dahlia herself is probably the one who has the 2nd most kills in the entire series.
She killed 3 people and almost killed 3. She's the only Ace attorney villain featured in multiple cases.
She haunted Phoenix and Mia even in death... and she turned Godot into a villain... and indirectly lead to misty fey's demise.
in total her actions lead 4 deaths and 4 close calls one even more than any other. Payne could have taken Coldkiller X to prove his point. Phoenix would have taken them if he found them. Godot barely survived the poisoning and Maya almost died in that cave, she was just lucky that she was the one who channeled dahlia since she was her intended victim...
She's manipulating any man quite easily and exploits them untill she kills them off or leaves them behind... but mostly she gets rid of witnesses.
For me it's definitely a toss-up between Engarde and Gant (or Godot, although I don't consider him to be a villain)
yeah, Godot's more of an anti-hero, I'd say
@@DerNiko Godot is not a main character though.
@@tseglun584
anti hero doesn’t necessarily mean he’s the MC
Manfred and Godot are the best. Only a true sigma male can attend a court of a murder themselves committed and risk getting caught.
Technically Shelly de Killer and Morgan Fey - Pearls, Iris' and Dahlias mother - deserve a spot on this list too. De Killer was used as a tool and only did his job but was a murderer nonetheless. Morgan ordered Mini Miney to kill Turner Grey and upon meeting her daughter Dahlia in deathrow ordered her to kill Maya (she initially wanted to kill Dahlia herself so Pearl could inherit the position of kurain master, but given that Dahlia was already im deathrow she had other plans).
Damon Gant was the ideal that Redd White aspired to be, but White was a bumbling clown (no offense, Moe!) who couldn't come anywhere close to Gant's level.
Where would Morgan Fey rank on this list?
S
Von Karma and Dahlia share a similar trait: they had incredible concepts but weren't executed to their full potential. Manfred suffers from just not having enough time with him to actually learn about his character and see the monster of a man in depth, while Dahlia was just poor writing. She's said to be this incredibly cunning girl who can fool everyone, but she's really bad at it and I don't like it. Sure, she has the judge and whatever Prosecutor there is fooled, but the player is never once fooled by her. You, the person playing, shouldn't be able to so easily see past her disguise, and it should be a lot harder for either Mia or Phoenix to see the real Dahlia. Engarde had us fooled up until the reveal. The hair flip showing his scars and his true self leaves us reeling in shock. We're in disbelief, however it isn't written in an unbelievable way. Dahlia should have been the same way. The reveal that she was the true killer should have had the same shock
yeah, dahlia may be important, but as se encounter her she is just plainly evil but everyone just ignores it because she is cute.
for more manfred von karma you should play the edgeworth games, especially the second one I feel makes mandred von karma a better character
@@nechocat1234 The 2nd Edgeworth game wasn't localized :(
@@redtailarts101 there is a full english fan translation
@@nechocat1234 And where can I get that on mobile?
I wanted to do a novel trilogy version of the series that is a bit more grounded in realism and mostly focused on the Fey family story. Some aspects would be to make the overtly evil characters more subtle, mostly Morgan and Dahlia. Morgan would be a more sophisticated, calm kind of evil with a less ridiculous hairdo. While Dahlia would be and actually good and intelligent actress. I love Dahlia, but your argument, sadly, is valid.
I will love turnabout samurai till my dying breath don’t you shit talk it
althoguh she's not a killer i would've loved to see Morgan Fey on the list as she is the mind behind the murder in case 2-2 and has an antagonistic role in bridge as well. i wouldn't put her in like S tier but I do think that her whole obsession with being the controlling person of the fey clan through pearl is quite interesting.
wellington aint doing that well on the tiers
Sadly I don't like large bananas
Why isn’t Morgan here? She’s like the cause for most of the villains
Where's Morgan fey?
I would argue that Vasquez is only B tier because tbh she's a little incompetent, and for me at least she loses out on sympathy. First off her "crime" was an accident caused by Hammer himself, so if she had just told the court the truth to begin with her lawyer could've easily made the argument that, technically, she didn't do anything and is innocent; she had no reason to lie and frame someone. The other thing is that she gets caught by saying she "knew" Hammer was injured when in fact it was Powers who was injured, but this is something everyone learned during the trial; if Vasquez had just paid a little more attention, she could've easily adapted her story and avoided getting caught.
TlDr; For me, Vasquez is B tier because she could've simply not lied. But she lied anyway, and could've had the perfect crime if she didn't botch it at the last second.
Winston Payne not included? He's my favourite one
He isn't a villain he is just bad at prosecuting.
Gaspin from DD and SoJ is a more corrupted prosecutor but even that is pushing it.
7:44 *IS-7
As far as murdering goes, Shelly De Killer gets SSS+++ rank 😏
you forgetting Joe Darke?
matt maybe the best twist in trilogy, but we all know the real best twist is the true mastermind behind everything in investigations 2
2:52 Well
Spoilers for I2-3
It wasn't necessarily because he got a penalty he decided to kill Gregory, if he had lived he would've reopened the IS-7 Case & might've beaten von Karma
furio tigre is a bad character in a bad case with bad characters
but, he carries the entire case on his back
Dahlia. The embodiment of pure evil
Oh my
me
As an actual villain i sorta disagree with where you put manfred my reasoning is yeah, he was responsible for the whole edgeworth and dl6 trial, but he dug himself a grave by trying to ruin edgeworths life, technically manfred already did by turning edgeworth, into the prosecutor you see in episode 2 of the game, he could've secretly killed miles abd got away with it later, but instead he brought up the dl6 trial, The one he should've known that if he got foubd out it would've been over and it was over, as a villain manfred was bot very snart yeah he may look it, but when going against good defense attorneys like pheonix or gregory, he becomes not as smart, cause in the gregory trial greg was smart to enough to get manfred a penalty. When manfred went against pheonix, he should've saw the connection. IMO manfred was a good final boss but over all as a villian and how he tried to plot the story he is overrated