HOW TO SWAP A CAM. 3800 V6 POWER-COMP VS ZZP CAM TEST. HOW MUCH IS A CAM SWAP WORTH NA AND BOOSTED?
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- čas přidán 8. 07. 2024
- WHY DOES MY BOOST DROP WITH A CAM SWAP? DOES YOUR SUPERCHARGED 3800 V6 NEED A BIGGER CAM? HOW MUCH POWER IS A CAM UPGRADE WORTH ON A SUPERCHARGED V6? DO I NEED AN EVEN BIGGER CAM ON MY NA OR SUPERCHARGED MOTOR? DO I NEED A DIFFERENT CAM FOR MY NA 3800 V6? HOW MUCH BOOST DO I LOSE WITH A CAM UPGRADE? CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO WHERE I COMPARED A MILD COMP CAM TO A WILDER ZZP CAM ON AN L67 3800 V6. I TESTED THE TWO CAMS BOTH NATURALLY ASPIRATED AND SUPERCHARGED-WHICH COMBO DID THE CAMS LIKE BEST? FULL DYNO RESULTS!
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Im loving this all this 3800 content.
A whole lot of effort going into this series which I’m sure is appreciated the most by the folks who run the 3.8. But who are they? Is this a popular combination? Are we gonna get to 1000hp? Thanks Richard!👍
I know it's a popular engine for Fiero owners, and some of the guys with GM FWD setups. Aside from that, I don't know. Personally, I think the 3800 V6 is obsolete. But the videos are still fun to watch.
The 3800 is an extremely popular engine still, we still do over 2 million dollars in sales every year just for that engine and the W-Body GM cars as a whole.
@@gbrunner24 thanks, i didn’t know.
@@timearll266 No problem, not many do know. They're super reliable, can take 600+ on the stock bottom end, and will run forever. Basically a 3/4 LS.
I still own the 2002 GTP that I purchased when new. The supercharged L67, 3800 now has 200,000 miles and is still running strong with no signs of typical wear.
I did the first upgrade at 2000 miles with a ZZP 3.4” blower pulley along with a few other goodies from ZZP. That’s when I also switched to Mobil 1 synthetic engine oil and ATF fluid which I’ve used ever since.
I can’t say for sure that the synthetic lubricants helped with the engine and transaxles longevity but it certainly doesn’t hurt either. I’m confident enough in the engines reliability that I’ve purchased a ZZP upgraded PCM along with several of their other performance items which I will be installing soon. If all goes well then next will be their intercooler and another pulley for more boost and a cooler intake charge.
I couldn’t be more pleased with Richards extensive testing and the mountain of useful data that he has compiled so far. I’m grateful for his selection of such an unlikely engine for testing and look forward to seeing the remainder of what he has planned.
That's an incredibly effective combination. That exact combination with a single GT3582R would be lovely on a road course application. Maybe even a G40-900.
I want to see a BIG BANG 3800, even if it means a literal BIG BANG 💥.
That splayed crank it gonna cry tears of blood. 😱😈
Keep the 3800 madness going, I'll be watching ! 🤘😎👍
I put down 1000 for a decent length of time on a stock crank. Eventually it was a main cap that cracked first. Engine was still running, it just dropped oil pressure. Couldn't tell what was wrong with the sump off until the caps were removed. One cap came out in 2 pieces. Super strong little engines.
@@3800TURBO Wow 😳.
What chassis is that thing bolted to ? And what transmission it's jointed to it ?
Nice work man🙌
Me: yay an upload, must be the truck Norris and best cam!
RH: more 3800 stuff
😢
love your 3800 stuff
I dont know how many full throttle dyno pulls this little engine is gonna make, but the last one is gonna be spectacular!
those 3800s are incredibly hard to kill. that thing will split the block and still run, not happily but it will run.
Out of everything, for its size, this is probably very hard to beat. 14-18 psi from a good turbo would make 500hp. I think the 3800 is super under-appreciated. I bet a 3800 swapped into a fox body would be a cool combination. Twin 3076R's and that ZZP cam.
see the 600+ hp turbo video
The 3800 stuff is awesome!!
More cam never hurts.😎
The 3800 is taking a beating on the dyno! Can't knock it out!
Definitely need to try a bigger cam if the heads allow it. Try contacting brushworks slick sixes for one of their cams or try an intense stage 4 cam
Comp cam with lower lsa#s would be the ticket. In my opinion most people don’t pay enough respect to that aspect of a camshaft. Mostly because of drivability.
From what I remember, the NIC cam is designed to lower boost more so than others. Its made specifically for Non InterCooled applications so that you can run a smaller pulley without an expensive a2w setup
You've obviously not been watching or paying attention to Richards cam testing videos - let me recap, every cam is a boost cam intercooled, non intercooled has nothing to do with it, intercooler is as it says purely a function of lowering intake temps and has no influence on camshaft performance range, the only thing that changes camshaft performance in its range is camshaft timing, intake and exhaust manifolds can make less or more in that range, more or less compression will make more or less in that range, more or less boost will subjectively make more or less hp in that range, cooler or hotter intake temperature will make more or less in that range, but trying to artificially extend the range has negligible results unless you change cam specs, one thing the dyno doesn't show is the effect on cylinder pressure when making more torque, and hp to a degree is the load on valve train as it tries to open exhaust valve against residual cylinder pressure, and as we know valve train loads gobble up hp but also tear up engines, why do you think the big boys go to 1" dia keyed lifters and 1/2" push rods etc, its not for RPM, that's where boost specific big hp builds concentrate on not oversizing exh valve dia and opening exhaust valve a little latter to combat opening loads, except for blown nitro engines as they have to open exhaust valve early enough to blow down cylinder to stop piston from trying to leave thru bottom of engine which is why you see so much combustion event out the pipes,
@@Hitman-ds1ei I do watch his videos and have been paying attention. My comment was specifically addressing the part in the video where he mentions boost being lower with the ZZP cam. It was designed with more overlap hence lower boost.
@@Hitman-ds1ei Andrew was dead right. No one argued in contrast to what you said. He's specifically stating the facts of why ZZPerformance designed the NIC cam for. It's also made to build power in the higher RPM range vs cams with larger LSA.
Nic literally stands for Non intercooled. It was optimized to run better at higher RPM without needing an intercooler. That doesn't mean your can't run an one though.
For more supercharged stuff, maybe try the ZZP xpz cam, and for turbo stuff, try the st5 cam
I wonder if the exhaust and "intake", the lower part of the blower housing, is limiting performance. Or is it all inefficiencies in the blower itself? I think an NA intake and long tube headers on an all motor setup would gain a little extra power everywhere. I guess we'll see what you did with the turbo setup. The turbo 3800s back around 08-09 were so much faster than the ones left supercharged
Why not get/make a larger crank pulley.
Or make some kind of centrifugal crank pulley that expands at higher RPMs? Kinda like the inside of the old distributors. But instead of weights spinning, "pie" shapes would expand, enlarging the workable dia of the crank pulley.
That way you can have low psi for easy drivability. THEN up to 3-4000 she kicks in and exponentially gains pressure!!
WHOOHOO!!
Richard. Define "nightly." I had to.
I love your channel ❤️. My wife laughs at me, bc she said that I have a man crush on you. Hope you do the 3800 BB test soon!!The fuel rails will be needed soon, thanks for your time-testing ¡
I'M JUST WAITING ON THE HEADS
@@richardholdener1727 Well just saying you gotta sell me those too when you're done with them lol. If they do what I think/hope they do I'd like first dibs on them if you get rid of them. I know that they won't be as cheap as the other ones you sold me but please keep me in mind when the time comes!!!! I am so excited to see the end results of the 3800 BB motor. Have a great day 😀
ZZP, Richard !?! Looks like we might be getting that 300hp 1.4 turbo finally. 😹😹😸😺😼😿🙏
Can we please do a test of the ZZP ST5 cam... I just put one in my turbo L67 Fiero and am waiting on a tuner. I really would love to see what that cam can do.
600ish capable if yoursetup is done right
When looking at the graph , there is only the last digit visible . I.E. 1-10 HP . After a few min.one more digit appeared . Can you fix ? Please . It would be way more interesting if we can read the graph . Thanks PS one day soon you are going to save me time and money . Keep it going .
Yeah!
More lift and intake duration. Can run up to .540" lift on the stock guide posts. If the posts are machined down it take lift to .590". I'd run 230-235 intake duration + big turbo. Fun times.
WE DID MACHINE THE GUIDES
@@richardholdener1727 PERFECT.
So where can I get that intercooler
you only did a headers & cam swap? throttle body, fuel injectors, rods, plugs, deletes, and/or anything else?
✌️🐝➕
Maybe the bigger cam needs more inlet airflow. Throttle body maybe?
I have a stock 3800s2 n/a on a firebird, what is a California legal ( under the radar) cam i can use and what else goes with it?
you need to search for legal cams
Wonder if the tighter LSA of the bigger cam was letting boost go out the exhaust valve during over lap
yes, the overlap is what the NIC cam is about, so you don't need an intercooler
No-there was no boost to go out during overlap on the na motor
@@richardholdener1727 Would that not be the reason the NA setup made more power at lower engine speeds but the blower made less?
So the cam swap gave a nice drop in boost, but a small power increase. That's odd. Maybe there's a restriction somewhere upstream of the pressure sensor?
While the supercharger is cool for a factory application it's a wildly inefficient unit. It's a crutch but we love it at the same time
Did you happen to mention what the part number was for those two cams? Thanks
just the designation and specs-should be easy to find with a search
Fun
Ima new subscriber...an im in deep need of help here..im a 3800 lover at heart iv had over 13 or 15 different buicks. All of em i had tha 3800s so i learnd as much as i could with everyone i had knowin gm runs through caddy oldsmobile an buick lol chevy...all that any how my older brothers that build cars hotrods an stuff like that i need help because there to busy to help a lil bro out this buick i jus bought for 400$ im tha 3rd owner an its got 143000 miles on her out of no ware it had a weird idle an then now its tickin ..i need help doin a motor swap i gota parts car for it . Any helpful videos for someone whos never done it b4
I don't do swaps, but there are lots of swap vids up on the tube
Now can we weld two V-6s into a V-12.....
/s
And a serious question; can you cut off the end of a V-8 cam on a lathe, and make a V-6 cam?
THINK FIRING ORDER
I have a 2004 SS Impala with a Gen III blower on it. I want to get a cam to decease boost/temperature from my blower. What kind of Cam do you recommend? I want to see the top end of 200HP maybe like 290-305HP. I also plan on running a 3.5 or 3.4 pulley with no IC or headers.
the nic cam
@@richardholdener1727 won’t the nic cam lower my torque in the lower rpms though? I’m getting my engine completely remanufactured so if you have any upgrades in mind I should do for it I’d love to hear. Well read them
You must be near the flow limit of the blower.
The supercharger on top of the 3800 is garbage. It needs a turbo kit injectors, fuel pump upgrade, etc and tune. That's at.
2 intercoolers water air and air to air almost na temp I reckon
I have a dumb question, can you turn a FWD V6 3800 into a RWD?
yes-they already do that in the 3800 Camaros
@@richardholdener1727 So, you can take a junk yard 3800 FWD engine and put it into a RWD car or truck?
Do you test G6X3 CAM on LSX ,,,.,..,.,..,???
NOT FAMILIAR
I'll be glad when you finish with that v 6 stuff.
First
stay firsty, my friend 😉
You need to use a blower cam
Not worth the camshaft change. Zzp cam is smaller but longer duration. Lift with the wider lsa is best .575 lift + 114 = power 6500 rpm
I love this series. But dang that 3800 has to be the worst soundin engine ever lol
Definetly odd sounding but not terrible. They sound so bassy
They dont sound great under a load, but at idle with a decent cam they are awesome
Letting an engine sit idle is a waste of horsepower. 😛
GM definitely screwed up with their exhaust routing, and up until this year basically every single FWD supercharged 3800 sounded terrible. We fixed that though with our new equalizer downpipe ;)
czcams.com/video/6SAnRfMTMIc/video.html
The demerit for the worst sounding engine ever goes to Subaru flat-4's.
Wow! Not much of a power increase with +10 degrees of intake duration.
Yeah buts he's all using the l67 which is a low compression motor (8.5:1) rather than An L36 with 9.4:1
The l67 was designed for the supercharged variants, L36 was for NA
It made more power at 1.7psi less boost. That's a decent gain. 👌 Run a smaller pulley now to regain that 1.7psi and it will pick up a lot at the same boost pressure as the old cam.
please see the previous cam test with no change in pulley size-also ran the cam test na
Personally I blame squirrels