The Bike Industry Will HATE This
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- čas přidán 5. 07. 2023
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Mechanical all the way. Great product, great video.
As a long time professional bike mechanic, world tourer and 15 year bike courier veteran, it boggles my mind how many new products are just basically 6 months away from being garbage. I'm so happy when I see new products that will stand the test of time and can be repaired, rebuilt and bypass proprietary compatibility issues.
Could this also be used to shift a triple up front on a touring bike?
@@donhuber9131 yes but it’s completely overkill. Just get the Rivendell Silver shifter for that.
@@PathLessPedaledTV I will! Thank you!
Compared to what though? If we are talking about shifters - and this is about one, then actually no. I mean yes, this looks sturdy and like it could up the test of time. But then most shifters do. Shifters almost never break, and i'm talking about the more "complex" indexed shifters. They usually work years and decades without taking any care. If they "break" they are usually just gunked up and are easily fixed with some break cleaner.
I'm not convinced. It's 150$ for a single shifter. I can get a "new" used bike in riding condition for that - shifters included. This thing is expansive compared to brifters (and you still need two break arms and of coure, with a front derailour, two of those shifters) and compared to flat bar shifters, yikes.
Trust me, i'm absolutely against planned obscolescence. It's kreeping into every single aspect of life, I'm sick and tired of companies making their shit break early and difficult/impossible to fix. But pick a reasonable target. Apple, Samsung, Amazon, Microsoft, Audi, BMW, Tesla, John Deer, Samsung, etc. Countless brands and products to tear apart about how anti consumer, anti repairable they are. Indexed Shifters, that often last decades (!) without any care and/or maintainance are not one of them.
@@sagichdirdochnicht4653 literally broke an apex trigger shifter in 3 days and immediately replaced it with a friction thumbie.
this isn't for me and the riding I do, but I love that this exists and all the thought and passion that went into it
Bingo!
Agree with you though I've used Shimano bar ends for years. This new product is quite appealing though as it also comes in a thumbie iteration.
I am old enough to remember the days of friction shifting and how easy it was to bodge a bike together out of whatever was lying around. The days of indexed shifting pretty much put paid to that until now.
Thank you Russ.
I remember when relatively affordable
bicycle manufacturers mostly all took pride in their work, even at entry levels. I started serious long riding in the late 60s when I was still a young kid.
I'm a retired mechanical inspector and machinist. I've also had a small business building custom wheels and servicing bikes in my garage for decades.
In my opinion, bicycles should be very simple and reliable machines. Back in the day, a highest end race bike was more easily serviceable than an affordable one. My newest ride is about 20 years old now.
Quality control in the larger bike industry these days is generally a bad overpriced joke. Nobody's fooling me. I think its shameful. Yet consumers spend their own hard earned money.
There is really no reason for all the complexity consumers demand and pay thru the nose for. Yet, it's my job security. I find that quite ironic.
It's pretty cool to see new parts with simple old technology and long term reliability in mind. Especially the excellent valued Japanese made gear.
Nevertheless, There's still lots of old parts available that have survived all these years. Many older parts were made to very high quality levels with longevity and serviceability in mind. I still ride lots of them and they've aged well after many hard dirty miles, touring and racing.
I just got hold of NOS Sun Tour bar ends still in their sealed package. I'm still using a bunch of really old Campy, Shimano, Sun Tour shifters and lots of other old 'junk'. Lots of it I find for free and barely used. Dusty and forgotten in people's storage.
When you use a double or triple crank, 10 speeds at rear is more than enough. My old restored Albert Eisentraut bike uses a
3x6 or 7 set up. It's just fine for riding all day
It's ludicrous this has to be made. Component monopolies are enemies of cycling. Period.
It's not just cycling. In fact, it appears to be damned near everything. Look into John Deere tractors.
Welcome to capitalism. All capitalism will invariably lead to monopolies as certain corporations accumulate more capital than others and outcompete and buy all their competitors.
@@kiuk_kiks Then the prices go up. Could This be an oligopoly? Maybe, the big bike makers aren't really competing.
You're an asset to the cycling community Russ 🤘
I really like the idea of mixing components until my bike fits my needs exactly. I've spent many hours on the milling machine making some of the individual parts and I believe this individuality will last much longer than any shelving components that the major manufacturers supply.
I really appreciate your channel because it makes one think about the real spirit of bicycle technology ;-)
Love this shifter, have been using it for several weeks after seeing your initial review. I have it paired with a tripe front derailer and a mountain rear cassette. Thank you.
Can you tell us more about your setup?
Absolutely killing it, Russ. I like things that give me options. I rather pay up a bit to not be backed into a compatibility corner down the road. Buy once, cry once.
Even though it's something I would not use I congratulate you on bringing this idea to life.
The longer lever and D ring seem like 2 real improvements that people would appreciate every ride, hopefully this industry niche of practical older school engineering is viable enough for at least some companies to keep making stuff like this!
Never tried friction shifting in my life but I can definately see that this is the product biking industry has always needed. Well done.
best used for aero bars (the aero bars will need to be grinded or reamed to fit)
can also use it if you want to simply run mtb cassette and hubs without changing out to a oddball road hub and road cassette.
A Shimano rep recently came by the shop with an overpriced E MTB and Shimano's new auto electric transmission. It rode real nice and smooth, but I can buy a pretty nice dirt bike for this sorta money.
I started telling him about my 35 year old Dura Ace bar ends, even older Sun Tour thumbies and fixed gear 'cross bikes. I made the point how all this 'old junk' still functions fine and requires almost no maintenance. Bicycles ought to be simple reliable transportation.
I also told him I was glad to take money from most of the suckers born every minute. Wrenching on all this new junk keeps our lights on. Besides all the warranties and recalls, we appreciate it.
Recently I bought my first 80s bike with friction shifters. I love the mechanical feedback of friction shifting. I really appreciate this!
YES! Can't wait to order a set. I use Woodchipper bars on my Fargo so there is absolutely no danger of knee shifting. Congrats, Russ. Hopefully you and the channel benefit from this.
It absolutely blows my mind that this product didn't already exist. Like, are there *any* bike mechanics/hobbyists who swap drivetrain components frequently who have been pleased with the compatibility of parts in the world?
Huge props for making it happen.
I don't know - 10sp Shimano bar-end shifters in friction mode shift 11sp fine in my experience. I'd think they'd shift 12sp also. I don't Think they make them new anymore, but you can still find them in good used condition. You can also attach the derailleur cable at the derailleur end of things so that it moves the derailleur a little more, changing the ratio. I wonder if that would be enough to make any old bar-end shifter move an 11/12sp derailleur fine. The shifter in the vid seems like a really nice shifter, though.
You don’t need to swap components if you just use a different bike each time.
Swapping parts is such as waste of time; isn’t it faster to just buy a new bike each time you need to test something/need something different?
@@slowcyclist4324 yeah just buy a new bike every time, that's insane
It was a staple product for many decades. Mostly used for other than road bikes for racing. I found them preferable to down tube levers on my 60 cm road bike because my knee over lapped with down tube levers. That being said they are still somewhat awkward. When I finally got a set integrated brake/shift levers I personally will never go back. As far as planned obsolescence goes I'm still using ultegra 8s STI lever with a triple on my Zurich . An XTR short cage rapid rise and Deore XT front. Never misses a shift no matter how hard I'm pedaling that would be the XTR. Front shift I do let up a bit. Cog set 13 - 26 and 30,42 53 chain rings It all worked well here in hilly wisconsin so I never changed it.
Opening up so many derailleur options!! More money than microshift? Yes. Less money than buying umpteen brifters? Very much yes.
I love it. I'm using it for a Tiagra 11-to-ten-speed derailleur; I may never need to mount different mech's ever again (I got an old Silver Shifter for the double on the front). I had to get used to a new lever, but that wasn't tough... I guess I'm turning into one of those bicycle weirdos. Russ, thanks to you and Jim at Merry. I'm still not at Party Pace, but this is the absolute BOMB!
Well done Russ, congrats all 'round to you, Merry & Soma. Fond memories of my Suntour ratcheting bar-end shifters and affordable mechanical systems. As much as I love the convenience & added safety factor of brifter systems, I have always cursed indexing, its fiddly factor, and the hydraulic or die/planned obsolescence of ShRamano's tech today.
Been using this for a couple weeks now. Super great product. Finally giving in and adding gears to my bike but haven't committed to a wheelset/cassette yet so this will be future proof for my purposes.
Highly recommend this type of thing if you change your bike around a lot. It'll save you lots of money in the long run.
This is why I enjoy watching this channel, all of the mechanical tinkering.
this rocks! Agreed about the incompatibility issues and non-mechanical offerings! thanks for posting!
Good on you for seeing and filling a need!
I only use friction shifting. It just works!
A splendid job Russ taking a concept to reality and bucking the trends. Its not only the product but example you make on getting things done.
Great job explaining and demonstrating the salient points of using this shifter. I recently built up my old Trek with brifters and a cassette then instinctively lowered my right hand to the bar end today. Im going to look at buying this bar end.
When the "CUES" movement becomes ubiquitous I'll need one. Currently running 8 sp on all the bikes so even a reversed front bar con shifter works on the rear.
Nice comparison to microshift. I understand that market forces are with racing-so I appreciate the people at Soma and everyone else involved.
I'm getting some real Spinal Tap vibes 😁
Thank you so much for teaching us how good the good old analogue non indexed shifter works. Some time ago I build my first 1x11 with Shimano components. Riding a while with SL-M5100 adapted to my drop bars robbing me grip space on the upper handlebar, so I spent some € on Microshift barendshifters.
Suddenly I had lots of space to change handpositions and since a few weeks I turned the shifters from indexed to friction.
It took a few kilomters to get the right feeling for the shifting process, but know I'm pretty convinced and knowing that compatibility has no borders is really relaxing 😊
I've been using the very similar bar ends "pass-vitesse" in the 70s as an alternative to the downtube shifters.
By then it had been already outdated for road races, but still used by cyclocross racers.
My idea was a quicker shifting during my sprints, but less precise I must admit. So after a couple of seasons i mounted back some downtube shifters.
Main difference, those were not priced like luxury things nor a game changer innovation.
Thank you Merry Sales. I am in my 70's and use bar ends almost exclusively on my numerous bikes. Mindless exacting shifting. The sun tour rachets if cared for and kept clean will last many years if not DECADES. Thanks again Merry Sales
Ordered one today, can't wait to try it! Thank you for helping something like this get to the market.
This is one of those things that I don't actually need but I love that it exists.
My uno will arrive tomorrow. This is best solution to problem of shifting for me and will hopefully last a lifetime. I hope it remains in production for long time. Thank you sir.
I love this new shifter! I’m currently running Rivendell Silver 2 shifters on my bar ends with a 2 X 9 setup. When I build a new bike with disc brakes, I can’t wait to get one of these to put on it!
Bravo Russ! Offering products that last over time should be a priority. I appreciate your mentality.
My 1972 Fuji Finest came with the Suntour ratcheting downtube shifters. I upgraded the derailleurs to Suntour Cyclone, but kept the heavy ratcheting shifters since they were so much nicer to use than the flyweight Cyclone ones. I still have the shifters, but one of the ratchets broke so they can't be used anymore. The ratcheting levers are really nice to use no matter how many gears you have in the back (or front!)
A few years after I bought my 1973 Fuji Finest, I upgraded to SunTour bar end shifters. Same mechanism, just a different location! They still work like a charm!
To be able to friction shift a 13. That is so cool. Old school meets new school
Its good to see people shunning the digital age with well made analogue components.
Im proud to still be using my 8 speed XT shifters bought in 1998! I love the 'snick snick' action of them, and they will most probably outlive me! Well done Russ.
This is great. I’m sure you have other ideas to prototype but I can think of two bikes I have where this might work well. Earlier today I was fiddling with a 37 year old Deore XT Deerhead SL-M700 Thumb Shifter and it still works just fine. Your product I’m sure will be useful in just as many years.
Great job Russ! I hope yall sell a ton of these, and I hope you make a little coin when they do! Keep up the good work!
Bought some from velo orange a few years ago and use it with a long cage mtb rear mech 48t cassette and 46-30 double chain ring. It’s great.
I adore your channel; thank you for what you do for the cycling community. 💜🤘🤙
That’s not expensive.
I mean: it costs a lot less than a couple of SORA brifters and it shifts everything that pulls cable.
I think it deserves to be bought just for what it represents.
Not in my country it doesn't .
I replaced just one Ultegra DI2 11speed hydro brifter for a customer who tried to bleed his own freakin brakes. He blew out the master cylinder in the lever. By the time this and a tune up was completed, service and parts cost him nearly $1000 AND his bike sat unused in our shop for 3 weeks waiting for the freakin parts to become available.
These retro shifters are dirt cheap!
For anyone considering 'high technology' on hard used, dirt ridden bicycles, replacement cost of all those overpriced, overly complex parts should be considered.
Old school, simple and reliable bikes could last for decades if properly cared for. Mine certainly do.
New school junk is designed with a 5-10 year life at most in mind. At that point, good luck finding new replacement parts. You're expected to 'upgrade'. Proprietary junk is designed to quickly become obsolete.
Already bought. Thanks for helping make this happen.
looking forward to trying one out!!
Kudos for the advice on the loctite. I was slightly hating on it since it was slipping and I had never experienced that with my gen 1 and gen 2 silver shifters. Loctite took care of it right away.
I had requested that they came pre-loctited from the factory, but obvs that didn't happen. Simple fix at least.
This is great, you've really opened my eyes to alternatives recently and having experienced a breakdown in the ratcheting system for my Sensah Empire Pro 2x12 groupset, I want to get some friction-shifters. I want to get this but saw it's sold-out on the website. Are there any alternatives you would suggest with enough cable-pull for a 12-speed system? I'm based in the UK too. I'd like a left and right-shifter. So far, I've seen the Microshift BS-M12-R but that's only a single friction-shifter.
Eight is great, nine is fine. Love that you and merry sales developed this for those who are running 1x and need all them gears in the back end
I've just ditched Gevenalle on my Gravel bike to join the masses with a Shimano STI lever. But am still using friction on my winter road bike.
What might be really interesting with this is seeing how well you can get Shimano/SRAM derailleurs to play with that Ekar cassette.
Or better yet just how hacky you can get with a cassette? Bodge sprockets from different brands/spacings together? Could you cobble together a 13 speed HG cassette from miscellaneous parts and slimmed down spacers, would you still be able to hit every gear?
So many possibilities...
One shifter to rule them all. I love it.
I like to run the shift cable all the way under the bar tape to the center. Congratulations on bringing a new bicycle product to market.
I was using barend shifters and was the last guy on my team to move to lever shifters... a million years ago. That bar ends are being produced and are therefore viable, makes me happy. Imagine being able to tell what gear you're in by feeling where the lever is. Love it!
So great to see it working even with the Ekar 13s, impressive!!!
Its price is fair, seeing the costs of a spare STI, and even the upper midrange tiers going electronic, or what you are willing to pay for a bone-matching saddle instead of a 40bucks-OEM.
Given all its benefits, esp. not having to worry about indexing during long rides,
my main concern is its functionality in the case of a crash, when set up as a bar end shifter.
How protected is it e.g. to continue an audax?
Are there any inner mechanics to worry about? The ratchet mechanism?
Or maybe is just a spare lever to pack, like a shift cable?
I guess that simply mounted as a thumbie somewhere at the stem or handlebar would solve that, but the bar-end position is neater, looks to be both more ergonomic and offer the largest cable radius options for minimal friction behind a handlebar-bag. ( Lowest friction and best crash protection is probably getting used again to down tube mounts ;P )
Would there be a difference which position the lever is in, in case of ground contact, e.g. is the lever more vulnerable when vertical in the small cogs?
Other way around, if in the largest cog/lever horizontal and the drop barends would hit the toptube? In the "best" worst case scenario it might simply be pushed down to harder gears, but again I'm thinking about the mechanics and the lever itself.
And I cannot imagine it being comfortable/ergonomic to mounti it turned inwards, i.e. the lever rotated a bit to the frame, away from a possible ground impact.
I'm with this aaaalllll the way! Magnificent! Brilliant!
Congrats need more products like that!!!
The wait is over hooray!
This popped up on my page 2 weeks too late 😅 ...I just converted to flat bars and I think I'm going to just throw a thumb shifter on (instead of my current frame shifter) ...but good to know it exists! I was looking for one a few weeks ago
Bought an "11 speed" bar end from microshift for my sram 11 speed. Never got it to shift correctly, smoothly, and confidently. Definitely will appreciate this
This is awesome. Thanks Russ!
Excellent. Super Retro in that it is old school but better that the stuff we had in the 20th century. This could go on my early nineties Cannondale touring bike when I refurbish next winter 👍
Perfect for Surly Corner Bar! Daaang!
Something tells me I should upgrade from my Regina Oro 13-17 freewheel.. love the shifters!
if you want post mount you can use ether the wolf tooth post to flat adapter or just use level calipers
There are plenty of old bikes and parts out there, but I hope a company starts making stem shifting friction levers again.
Congrats Russ on the innovation!
More power to your arm Russ and yes, you are an asset but the question must surely be asked, will this shifter operate for 14, 15, 16 plus speeds because more must be better.
Awesome content mate
Nice work Russ....so analog !
You weren’t kidding. It is expensive. $149 for a single bar end shifter with nothing else means you’re gonna have to really want this puppy.
Yea being a hipster is expensive!
Hi Russ. Thanks! I assume there is only one version of this shifter!? Can I use the same version for the front and rear derailer?
Fabulous! Now we just need to get Jim and gang to make a new bar end pod that is narrower in diameter to work with the newer aluminum albatross bar (in 31.8 bar clamp) and many of the newer upright bars by velo orange and others.
I went from Shimano 9 speed brifters to friction about 15 years ago (after replacing brifters every few years when they wore out) I will never go back.
Will this fit on a thumb mount? The current ene thumb shifters are 11 sp if I remember correctly so not sure they are the same.
A friction only aficionado... or africtionado if you will
I'm very interested in friction shifters and plan to try them. One question tough - at least one particular supplier sells modern friction shifters marked for 9, 10, 11 and 12 speed separately. If a friction shifter does not have indexing - what is different between these shifters? the length of cable pull with a full stroke?
Friction Shifters, huh. Yeh - I had those on the Schwinn Continentals I had forty years ago. I guess I like the idea. Basic mechanical engineering, It seems like they could sell these with various sized pulleys for the unit to change the amount of cable is pulled as you rotate the lever. However, in these times, I think few people tinker like they used to. A hundred fifty bucks seems high to me, but so does everything else these days. If demand for such a product exists, this is something the lone inventor in their garage could improve on and sell over the internet. Thanks for the review.
Interesting, but I'm a straight up Thumb Shifter guy. I run a lot of old LBS take-offs. I do luv the Suntour rachet's feel.
Wow. Had some bar end shifters in the 70s. These look identical.
hahaha, that rough channel is betta not to be smooth,
that added friction help you to widen the grappling surface.
that way it would be harder to break the tip.
Really nice! Makes me want to build up a bike just to justify to buying one of these 😉
Thanks for your content! Is this different then the Velo-Orange Dia-Compe 11speed ratchet? Or, is it the first time it’s been on a pod? I’ve had the 11speed DT on one of my set ups and love it but wanted to do barends at some point.
Same lever. First time in a modified pod.
Didn’t think it would do 13sp. Nice!
will there be a flat bar under mount version ? ( like using front shifter as rear shifter ? )
Asking for this for Christmas 👍🏼
Russ, I bought this the day you announced it, then returned it next day. I’m running SRAM 12-SPD 10-50, guessing that the 11-spd demo in your 1st vid would leave shifting room aplenty in my lowest (12th) gear. Here’s what I found. 1) There was no range improvement over my MicroShifter on my 1x12 setup. Both shifter handles top out with nary a millimeter to spare in top gear, indicating that both pulley diameters are either equivalent or close to it. 2) The expanders were too small for my Richey steerer tube, necessitating a swap with my MS expanders. No other expander choice was offered on the order page. 3) The pulley cable channel was galled and quite rough, which might degrade the cable through use.
I address every one of those points in this video to set accurate expectations.
@@PathLessPedaledTV I saw. I’d hoped it would improve shifting range and leverage versus MS on my 1x12. I’m sure it would be great on 11spd, however. Your channel is terrific.
A “soft” material (aluminum) cannot damage a harder one (steel cable).
Swathes of top tube mounted or quill stem mounted shifters activating 3 cogs flywheels were made, the other century, 20th, using antiquated casting technology by Simplex, Huret and precursors which channels never were machined or polished.
It never resulted in cable damage.
That’s steel on steel rubbing which damages a cable.
Bar end friction shifters have been around for years. And is pretty good that’s just my opinion.
when i set up a touring bike, ill be using this
As of my post, this is sold out.
Will it be restocked?
This would be a solution for folks who are going for 105 12speed mechanical RD(assuming enough pull) on TT bikes, as Microshift havent release road solution yet.
/Should consider black ver too
Congrats for the world's first 13 speed friction on record...!
I used friction shifters, 15byears ago, swithch to sti and never look back.
You did it!
Very cool that you're working on this. I am confused about ratcheting vs index shifters. Index is obviously 1 click per gear, is ratcheting like micro indexes? It's not like a ratchet wrench, where there's only tension in one direction, right?
Yes. You can view it as microindexing.
The idea, as best as I can describe it, is that the ratcheting mechanism allows you to not have any friction when pulling against the derailleur spring. This way, you can set the shifter's tension to hold your gear without slipping, while not being stiff when pulling against the derailleur when shifting to a larger cog on the cassette. Once you use one on a bike, it makes perfect sense. They're so much easier than friction without the ratcheting mechanism.
Hello Russ. I recently got these in thumbies but was wondering could I run a Shimano grx810 with a 9 speed cassette using these or would I need to use a 9 speed derailleur? Your passion and knowledge is amazing to watch. Thank you.
If you have the oversized thumbie it will work. If not it won’t pull the derailleur across the entire cassette.
@@PathLessPedaledTV thank you for the quick reply. Yea I got the newer 11 speed thumbie. So this 11 speed derailure should work across a 9 speed cassette awesome. Thank you for the help highly appreciate it.
Hi Rus, is an Uno shifter available for downtube mounting?
Will there be a shop to buy one here in germany ?
I'm really really need one for my cinelli !
I don't think you're in any danger of bike industry hate :) I dig your content and I dig alternate bikes and non marketing-machine compliant stuff in general.
But that said, while the shifter is cool, it's super niche market and the price is eyewatering for what it is. For $150 or whatever it is, I'm pretty happy with a 105/Ultegra level hydro brifter :)
Curious I used friction at 10 speed and felt it was way to sensitive. Can you find individual gears on eagle? Seems like it would be crazy to adjust.
I use friction in 10 and 11 regularly without any problems.
Not sure I'm the demographic for this, for this most part, but also find it to be cool. If the right bike came along (a classic bike build especially), this would be something I'd think about for sure. Some old 2x8 or 2x9 is honestly some of my favorite gearing to cruise around on and just enjoy the ride.
The right demographic is the person tired of compatibility issues, values backwards compatibility, wants the most bombproof shifter and doesn’t want to charge their bike.
Noob question, but how would one mount it to flat bars? I'd buy two if flat's possible!
friction shift i think last time i had it on a bike was mid 90´S , and i dont want them back^^