39. Propex "acoustic ducting" test and HS2000 heater exhaust temperatures measured
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- čas přidán 23. 01. 2020
- I mentioned in a recent video that I was going to test whether the new "acoustic ducting" from Propex would really reduce noise levels of the HS2000 propane (LPG) heater in the van, plus I wanted to point my infra-red temperature sensor at the exhaust pipework to see how hot it really gets as it wends its way from the heater to the outside of the van, so in this video I do both those things.
If you liked the video and wish to leave me a tip, thank you!
www.ko-fi.com/davidjohns
Propex Acoustic Ducting can be found here: www.propexleisure.co.uk/shop/...
The temperature gauge I'm using can be bought here (affiliate link, costs you nothing extra but gains me a tiny commission): geni.us/TempGun
Parts and tools used in my van build:
DeWalt jigsaw: geni.us/Van_DeWaltJigsaw
DeWalt drill: geni.us/Van_DeWaltDrill
DeWalt mitre saw: geni.us/Van_DeWaltMitreSaw
Portable toilet: geni.us/Van_Toilet
Sink unit: geni.us/Van_SinkHob
Fridge: geni.us/Van_CoolFreezeCDF26
Heater unit: geni.us/Van_PropexHS2000
Inverter: geni.us/Van_Inverter
Mains charger: geni.us/Van_MainsCharger
Solar charger: geni.us/Van_SolarMPPT
Web www.vandemonium.co.uk
Twitter / vandemoniumuk
Instagram: / vandemoniumuk
As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases. - Auta a dopravní prostředky
@7:19 "Jubilee Clip" is a much more elegant name for--what is in America--a generic "hose clamp." A Jubilee clip sounds like something the Queen would use to keep her hairdo in place.
"Some sort of stuff" has now been elevated to technical jargon. Love it! Thanks!
That patch looks familiar. Where is it from?
always make a quarter turn back on your gas supply valve from the bottle, to prevent it seizing up when fully open.
Great video, David, but for some reason, I feel like taking a nap now. I guess you could say, watching this video was a bit "exhausting..." (ouch! lol) Thanks and keep up the great work!
Ouch indeed!
I am from Canada: I am to soon install a Propex heater HS2000 in my caravan built project and I directly called Propex to ask about the exhaust temperature and they didn't know! Thank your for that very informative video! Their blue silicone sleeve used to connect the exhaust pipe to the heater is, according to Propex, rated at 250 degrees C continuous.
Glad it was useful. I did not know that about the silicone sleeve, that’s good info, cheers
@@Vandemonium You can also add a muffler at the end of the exhaust pipe like this one: www.heatso.com/webasto-exhaust-silencer-muffler-22mm/
I just found a cheap kit that also include an intake silencer:
www.ebay.com/itm/Air-intake-filter-silencer-Exhaust-Silencer-for-Webasto-Eberspacher-Auto-Heater-/232888245088
You, sir, are certainly an inquisitive type. An informative vlog indeed. Keep messing about and you could end up employed as a chief designer for a van conversion outfit! A fine job, sir. Be safe out there and have a good one.
Never thought I’d get excited over a video about air ducting but here I am! That hot air exhaust looks like it has lugs for a cap to be fitted. Safer than tape if you can find one.
Yes, I asked Propex about a cap or grille to go over it and they didn't have one; I've not yet got around to sorting something better but it's on my "to do" list!
How about a "cap" off a bottle of gin? Of course you'd have to drink the gin, but we all have to make sacrifices don't we.
Hahaha excellent thinking.
@@davidoickle1778 I would have made the duct out of old beer cans... but then I'm Stig of the Dump irl.
Three days of 'non-stop' Vandemonium catches me up! Thank you, David! Stay well.
So much fun to watch you puzzle thru things, just a joy to watch.
Good mini vlog, David. Now, back to slow tv on the Macclesfield
Interesting Test.
On Land or Water, same good content.
Thank you for a interesting vlogg. Liked the build and the way you experience your way... Hello from Finland
Always enjoyable David Cheers
Happy new year!! Love your vlog's
I will definitely fit that quieter duct. I was looking forward that test, thank you.
Great vlog as always. You are very clever fellow, goog idea with the heater hose.🚐👍😎💖🐼
I hope you are OK, and you manage to get back to the UK safely and with no much trouble. I also hope you can come with a lot of material to share. Keep yourself safe.
Excellent and informative video. Thank you, cheers!
Great vlog David.......well explained.........thanks for sharing
LOVE THE VLOG , AS USUAL. HAPPY VANNING.
Hi just a small thing , when you turn on your gas at the cylinder , turn the control knob all the way on then turn it back off one quarter of a turn . This will 1 stop it getting stuck. And 2 help to keep it from leaking. Hope this helps .👍🏻😎👍🏻
Thanks for the tip!
You could probably get some metal mesh and a hose clamp, and have a permanent fix that you do not need to fiddle with. Cheers from the left edge of Canada.
The flashpoint of wood is 572 f and 300 c. So, you are well within the safety margins. also, to help deflect the heat from the areas of concern, consider using some sheets of aluminum as head shields.
Cheers; I'm also concerned about the slow process towards self-incineration (I forget what the proper term for that is) but I think I'm OK
@@Vandemonium Spontaneous Combustion perhaps?
I'm still wondering how you got such stellar weather for that test ... I'd have expected far worse for the dead of winter.
You know that heater doesn't make the sound your Lister does, but there is something to be said for some gentle background noise to sleep by in the cold of winter. Better at 50 dB than 59 to be sure though. :)
We had three days of beautiful weather this past week, oddly. It's all gone now!
I guess you could say with this video, things are heating up... and that makes this a cool video. ;)
If this has been said, I apologize. I wander if you could slide a slightly smaller pipe with a good bend inside the new pipe where you need it to bend to keep the pipe open and prevent it from kinking off? So the hard fold may be apparent but it will keep it from collapsing.
Great video, as always! Thanks David!
Split the old ducting lengthwise and use it as a former around the corner with the acoustic ducting. Put the split pipe around the acoustic pipe and shape it, using the split pipe as a guide around the bends.
Sometimes I use the decibel measuring thingy to measure decibels of various and sundry household items and let me tell you you would be surprised ayyy how loud a microwave beep actually is
Unfortunately your other comment got stopped by the coarse language filter I have on my channels but I enjoyed reading it nonetheless ;-)
Plucked a whole bouquet of oopsy daisies I guess
works for me m8, stay safe, warm an well eh!
I think the best solution, if it's available, is a rigid 90° duct right on the heater outlet, and then attach the flexible ducting to that. Not a hard 90°, mind you, but a gentle, curved duct pipe. That should keep the kinks out of the flexible duct, though I'm not sure what the noise impact will be.
Why don't you fix a little piece of aluminum screen over the end of the heater exhaust pipe to keep insects out? You could leave it in place while the heater is running if the exhaust temperature is below the melting point of aluminum.
Yes i worry you might forget to take the cover off and get over CO poisoning
Yes, good idea
About the hot-air hose: You could try wetting the fabric, and then putting the hose in place and letting it dry. It could also wreck the hose though, especially if it's made from something like filt, so best to test it first.
Where did all that sunshine come from?! You must be in northern Spain. I really enjoy both your videos ; narrow boat & van conversion. TTFN!
OK, I really need a life. I just binged watched all the videos! All very interesting mind you. I'm a bit more partial to your Crusingthecut channel. But I really enjoyed watching the build.
Fahrenheit 451(Celcius 233) the title of a book by Ray Bradbury, but also supposedly the temperature at which paper catches fire.
I just had to watch this vlog purely based on the title!
9dB is actually 3x quieter - so an impressive result.
Ever good experiment I think. But is the cost of the black pipe worth of the sound test? I know the sound is quieter then the old pipe, but will it be worth to get a longer black pipe? I'm sure you can rig up something like you said. Take a peace of old pipe & join the black pipe would be your best bet.
So glad you get to decide what's best for you & others don't really have a say... lol... oh I love how these kind of things works.
You do you David! Carry on hun. I love your videos..... And I love the tape over the outside of the pipe. So smart. Wish someone would of told me about that hack. Dang! That's why my heater doesn't work no more I bet.
Chris from Missouri
Shame the old duct won't fit inside the new one for the bendy bits. I didn't think this was going to be as interesting as it was. Then I realised our Ebespacher ducting is very similar. However I don't know how to switch it on. Come July I will be more motivated I'm sure. Pretty sure your fire risk is very low until you get to over +230C. Thanks for the Video David.
Hi David, Just wondering how your NZ trip is going especially as you seem to be in the eye of the storm with NZ closing its borders. Hope you're safe and well and that you manage to get back to the UK without too much hassle.
Nice work.
Thanks for the tip on the noise level indicator app. I'll have to get one of those. It's a noisy world we live in.
Seems like that heater of yours will really keep the van warm, even on the coldest nights.
Did I miss the part where you checked the temperature at the heater vent leading into the living quarters? It would be interesting to know that temperature.
Travel On
I forgot to measure that!
Keep in mind that the decibel noise scale is logarithmic, so 9 dBA is quite a change. For reference, the human ear typically starts to perceive a change of noise levels at around 3 dBA difference. Most people can readily hear perceptible changes at 5dBA difference. 50 dBA is a reasonably serene noise level, so that new pipe might be a beneficial addition to the system. Actually thinking about this, the noise levels you may want to capture are the running and non-running cabin noise. THAT is likely the difference you will be most aggravated by when inside the van.
Not sure what you mean by the "running and non-running cabin noise"
@@Vandemonium Sorry for the vague statement. The heater running verses the ambient cab noise level - the difference between heater on and off.
Ah! Yes, that would have been an interesting figure as well, you're absolutely right.
that was like watching a 1970s Tomorrows World episode.
I used to love Tomorrow's World...
@@Vandemonium so did i...you'd have made a terrific reporter on it.
That type of insulated ducting is for running ducts through unheated spaces. Because your van is mostly open, all heat inside of your cabin is a win. If you are already getting sweltering heat, just use the old stuff. As an American year-round camper in the frigid North, I maintain that the #1 problem with camper heating is moisture control. Living in a humid greenhouse then intermittent blasts of hyper-dry air can do a number on all interior appointments. Modern campers are well suited for this abuse but you might run into some issues. It'll drive moisture into hidden wooden parts and mold will set it.
The ducting is for acoustic reduction rather than heat retention.
Just some random thoughts, there might be some noise from the intake as well so some of that ducting with a bit of bending might help as well.
Cheers. The intake doesn't have any ducting at all, and Propex suggest it is left that way.
As an ardent and longtime viewer of your vlog(s) I should no longer be as amazed as I am as to how much I enjoy these moments, yet not only did I do so but I have taken from you good information on some projects of my own. Thank you once again!
Cheers Thomas
How about Using a couple of upvc elbows on the pipe to create the desired bends...might work.
Hi David are going to the Camping & Moterhomet show at the NEC this year
No plans to go this year, no.
fascinating quandry there! remove noisey to use shhh version, but the clever (doh!) makers made bends hard to do! damn!
i think your use original for the bend idea is sound, but make sure you are definitely able to do it first or you may need to get a length of the old stuff again!
good luck and ta for the fascinsting vid! now for the legendary cuppa and cheese sarnie while thinking it all over perhaps?
dont forget the bug cover btw!!!
I wonder if you used the quieter stuff just for the straight sections and connected it to lengths of the old stuff to go round bends what kind of noise reduction you might get?
Maybe wrap the wood (around the pipe in the cabinet) with the metal sticky sheet like your stove in your boat perhaps?
Very nice'
I'm concerned that I was actually quite excited to know what the noise level difference between a cardboard pipe and a fabric pipe would be. I just get out more!
Could you put something inside the new duct when you bend it to stop it folding and then pull it out when in position like you do when bending copper plumbing pipe. I was thinking something like a vacuum cleaner hose or something like that????
You could keep the heater bug free by placing steel mesh into the pipes :)
Very scientific.
Just finished 'Cruising the Cut' and wondered if you're planning to add more to Vandemonium.
Yes, the weather's been too horrible to go anywhere in the van recently but my trip to New Zealand next month, using a hired campervan, will be vlogged here :-)
You could try stuffing a bit of steel wool in those heater pipes to keep the insects out.
You’re still going to have to take it out before running, because obstructing the exhaust is a really bad idea, CO wise.
How about making an acoustic box junction? Discharge from the heater into the box with the box outlet in line with the ducting. Keep the box as large as possible so as not to increase the air resistance.
I like that idea!
You might want to consider using an expanding plug in the exhaust rather than covering it with tape. Not sure of the size you would need, but they are easy to get. Cost wise between $4.00-$15.00. Not sure of the cost in pounds, still should be a cheap and effective alternative.
Could you wrap the old duct work with some sound insulation and actually improve it to better than the new ducting? Wold be an interesting experiment. Thank you David for the video and any plans on trips you would share? Take care and have a great week. ;^)
I'm going to be using the van for a couple of trips to make narrowboat vlogs soon but as they're quick trips, I don't think they'll make for a van vlog :-(
@@Vandemonium Then I will pop over to Cruising the Cut and see what is new later this week. Thank you.
👍
Does one have a digestive or a chocolate digestive while digesting those numbers?
Perhaps if you can fit the acoustic duct inside the original duct (or slightly larger), the original duct would prevent it from kinking. Thanks for the interesting video!
Be cautious when joining the 2 pipes together. The old pipe will crush very easily (as will the new - albeit less permanently). You will ideally need something rigid to attach them both to. Don't be tempted to use Duck tape - it will not smell good! Also, the more bends you introduce in a pipe, the more resistance to the airflow (and therefore less hot air reaching your living space). You may well want to just go for the longer length of black pipe after all.
Did you think of applying sound-deadening material to the access panels and the inside of the heater enclosure to reduce the sound entering the van?
No, this was just to test the piping sold by Propex.
@@Vandemonium Sorry. I misunderstood. I thought you objected to the loud sound of the heater. Thanks for the reply.
I wonder if you could use a hinged flap on the exhaust to keep the bugs out, like you can get for tumble dryer exhausts. Then you wouldn't have to remember to take the plug off.
Ah but I also have to have a cover on the air inlet too and that needs to be able to suck
I have a vague feeling the heater refuses to run if it doesn't detect clear inlets and outlets hence that brief "whoosh" when you power it on, so you can't actually start it unless the pipes are unblocked.
9db is nearly half the perceived noise. If the heater bangs out that much heat. I would not worry too much about your kinky pipe if it still flows as such
Are you ready for that trip to Tromso yet ?
In the van or the boat? :-)
The question is - is it really too noisy for you with the old ducting - bearing in mind how little runtime the heater will have - or will you have it keeping the van warm through the night while you try to sleep ?
More of an experiment than it actually being too noisy really!
@@Vandemonium Ok, thanks for the clarification.
I did think the same as you re using a bit of the old for that first bend then going to the furry pipe.
Is the noise just of that coming out of the vent directly rather than noise coming through the pipe wall ? If so, more effect might be achieved by muffling the pipe just before it reaches the final outlet. I'm thinking pan scrubber (not wire wool/Brillo) but I think even pan scrubber might be too obstructive. Too obstructive would cause the outlet temperature to rise.
Perhaps one or 2 sheets of gauze (?) (like you'd put on a Bunsen Burner stand) - if using 2, separate them by a cm or so. [Think of lint filter off a laundry dryer outlet].
If you lean a book against the outlet at 45° to reflect the noise downwards onto carpet....... ?
Any chance the old ducting will fit inside the new ducting? Just enough to make it around the bend and it may help keep the new ductings shape?
They're the same diameter :-(
If you can find a friendly plumber you may be able to eliminate the gaffer tape on the end of the heater pipe. All manufacturers of pipe protect the threads on the ends with little disposable plastic caps. I feel certain that one of the pipe sizes has a plastic cap that would be the exact diameter that you need.
How about getting a 135 degree silicone elbow and using that at the heater outlet to make the initial bend? Shouldn’t be that expensive even from a local auto parts store.
It doesn't even need to be that hot for the air outlet (the 140 degrees I was reading was on the exhaust outlet) but yes, good idea.
Your air intakes for the heater and the vents and all the other vents how about you get some mesh to put over the holes like in your roof vent? That will stop creapy crawlies from getting in and still allow air in and gas to drop out
Yes, there is mesh over them
a mid watching this. it appears to me you could heat the van as well as under your bed? yes . its were all the cold hides. and damp starts.. as on your boat..under the bad ..? remember
Interesting test, I hope you figure out the bendy bit.
you were looking at that piece of black ducting like it was a piece of licorice lol
I sold my Propex and fitted a Chinese diesel heater in it's place and it's so much better. Quieter, hotter, more economical and uses way less power.
I sold my diesel heater yucky thing .installed a propane exterier tank and a underbody mount propex.whisper quiet . Dry pure heat .Life has improved in the.van..uh huh
Is your heater hard mounted on the ply or is mounted on sound deadening.
Hard mounted but that’s not the cause of the noise, it’s the whoosh of the air through the pipe
You gain in one area but lose in another area. Is it a wash? You would think with the "new improved" sound baffling hose they could have engineered a more flexible one. Maybe I am not smart enough to appreciate its benefits!
Regarding using your hand to sense heat, did you know the back of the hand is more sensitive to heat than the palm?
Haha I was using my fingertips!
Cant you use the new sound-proofing duct over the top of the original ducting... wouldn't have to be air tight - but would be even quieter?
I think (and I’m guessing) it works by absorbing the energy of the air as it gets pushed along the pipe, so it’s not the wrapping of the piping that has the effect, it’s the softness of the material. Hence wrapping the old stuff wouldn’t work.
This solution is probably the best, but I would use it opposite. New inside the old one. Old looks (just looks, on screen) wider
@@Vandemonium I guess reversing my suggestion and using the sound proofing duct as an inner lining would become fairly skilled re-fabrication process...
Hmmm, supposedly, every 10 dB lower is half the volume, or every 10 dB higher is twice as loud.
Its actually every 3 db is double in intensity, 10 is twice as loud.
3dB = Double/half.
10dB = Order of magnitude.
Some like it hot :-)
I don't think that the kink in the acoustic ducting matters very much, the airspeed inside the duct isn't that high, is it?
No, to be fair it isn't but it really was getting quite a corner in it under the sink unit :-(
@@Vandemonium Maybe you could fit a short length of stiff pipe of some sort inside the duct at the corner position to keep it from making that kink? Perhaps a short length of the old duct sliced lengthwise so you can get it stuffed inside?
Most important temp is at the duck and the temp achieved in the van.
Oh, that's very hot, easily sufficient for the van
You might save time or effort (forgetting to remove or replace the tape) by engineering a screen that would prevent the invasion of insects in the intake duct.
Might it be possible to put one pipe inside the other so you get the best of both worlds?
They're the same size but no, the fabric one still wouldn't bend smoothly inside another pipe
@@Vandemonium You could perhaps get around that by slitting the black pipe so that it cups over the other pipe.
@@Vandemonium if it did fit I think you would find it would help, the outer, more ridged, pipe would constrict the deformation of the inner pipe. Even splitting the outer pipe along the outside of the curve to make help the inner pipe to fit may work. Worth the experiment at least I think.
How about getting someone to knit a cover for the old ducting?
It's the inside that it needs to be soft on, to absorb the air pressure waves bouncing around as that's what makes the noise as the air travels along the pipe.
As a knitter I think it would be possible, but wouldn't know if it would be safe. Acrylic yarn would possibly melt from the heat. Not sure how wool would react to the heat.
@@Vandemonium do you know anyone that knits? I did a bit of researching and learned wool is possible. If it were knitted in a tube (like socks) then you should be able slip it inside of the ducting. Also learned cotton yarn won't melt. Not a guarantee that it's a good idea but it's a possibility.
Well that was a load of old hot air ! Could you instead wrap the existing pipe with the acoustic material ?
I don’t think wrapping it would work, I believe the acoustic effect comes from the soft fabric damping the roar of the air as it goes along rather than any soundproofing effect, if that makes sense.
@@Vandemonium Thanks, just a suggestion, hope you sort out the kinks :-)
Not a spider fan I noticed
That is just not that much quieter with the black pipe. I would use the whiteish pipe and have all the smoother bends. That’s just barley noticeable to your ear and someone my age wouldn’t notice the sound level differences at all. The right frequency at 40 dB I don’t hear over my tinnitus, my dish washer I can’t hear at all. I would just use the better flexing pipe
Someone must make an elbow fitting.
Would putting some kind of cladding around your original pipe be better than what you have purchased. Anyway made a good little video bro. All the best. Was 29c here today.
Cheers, not really I think as the damping effect of the new pipe comes from it attenuating the whoosh of the air down the pipe rather than blocking noise coming out of the pipe, if that makes sense. Cheers
Metal window screen and a clamp on exhaust pipe. Easily as good lookink as a gob of tape.
In the middle of my build at the moment ( check out my channel ) and will be fitting one of these heaters so nice bit of info thanks, how about a 45 deg drain pipe joint for inside the pipe
I looked at drain pipe at B&Q a few days ago and couldn't find any that matched the diameter (claimed to be 60mm by Propex but I measured it at 62mm)
@@Vandemonium You could use a section of the original ducting for the bend areas coupled together at each end to the new ducting with these www.propexleisure.co.uk/shop/ducting-straight-coupler if the internal diameters for both hoses are the same
I have just ordered those exact things!!
:)
Vandemonium o Vandemonium where for out thou vandemonium rev the engine Let us know you're still alive 🙏.
Still here but the weather's been poor so not out in the van. Now going on holiday then off on the boat. There will be van videos here from my holiday though :-)
ah the inquisitive mind
Every 3 dB is a halving up or down.
3dB is a half/double the objective sound energy, but not half/double the subjective perceived loudness. 10dB is approximately half/double perceived loudness for most listeners.
never turn the tap? more than one full turn or in a fire you will never turn it of.ok.. safety