Want Outboard Hardware - Watch this First
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- čas přidán 12. 06. 2024
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Some of us really do like excuses to spend money. Two HA Britstrips, Soyuz 017, Soyuz 013 Stereo Pair, to “do it right.” . I’ve made three solo acoustic songs in a year.
Sereosuly man ...thank you for your time and honesty , I stead of pushing products in our faces , your words and unvaluable ...thank you
Superduper! Barry, you share some of the best intelligent music production advices I've heard in 7 yrs! It makes so much sense to me. Thanks❗
For mixing, I adore hardware. Its 5-10% better sounding compared to emulations many times, but I feel that the gains add up and compound on each other.
I had been afraid of eq'ing on the way in for years. Once we got our toft board, I couldn't imagine bringing in a drumset without running most channels through a decent amount of eq. I suppose it's case specific, but I want that kick to sound thunderous and that snare to crack on the way in. Love the channel!!!
Agreed. This notion of not EQing on the way in makes zero sense to me from an engineering perspective. The job of the recording engineer is to tones that shake the sound of the records. EQ and compressing on the way in is how it’s been done for decades. People are so afraid to commit these days for fear of “ ruining “ the tracks. If that’s the case, maybe they shouldn’t be engineering 🤷🏾♂️
I get excited about 1) owning my sounds; and 2) not having to deal with OS upgrades, latency, or crappy interfaces. That’s why I love hardware and hate software.
indeed it also gives you a more unique signature sound in a way that software cant because almost everyone has all the same plugins with the bundles available but with hardware we all have our own unique combinations. also owning hardware made me more studious with the technical/scientific side. it can be very overwhelming and complicated at times but it has made me a much better engineer than if i had not added any hardware to my studio.
It’s partly the sound, partly the red carpet “wow” factor treatment for clients and partly my inner nerd gear junkie lust.
Barry, I love your videos, love what your information and what you represent. But, in my very humle opinion, I don't think its as simple as "you don't need it" regarding hardware for everyone. And its not just because I enjoy hardware (though I do LOVE it 😂). Yes, you can get tremendous results ITB and Im not arguing that at all. But they are different results. Hardware gear, especially compressors in my opinion, sound and react very differently than their plug-in versions. The natural harmonics and saturation of hardware gear compared with the digital results in a different sound. Not to mention it takes me longer, and usually additional plug-ins to achieve a similar result ITB. So for the sound I am personally going for and in the amount of time Im wanting to achieve it, I believe I need my outboard gear. But Im not saying you are just totally wrong or am trying to argue man. This is just my opinion. Again, thank you for your material and the time to make your videos. I hope you keep at it.
When I started home remote recording on a DAW I used plug ins. I found myself using my eyes and presets to get sounds. I hit a wall. So I got an RNC compressor to force myself to use my ears to dial in compression. That way I got a visceral understanding and started discovering how to listen. Same with EQ. I used to look at the lumps and try to fix them. With a hardware EQ I can only listen and learn. And my case that is the real key. Learning how to listen and what to listen for. Plug ins are often used as a quick fix for a problem. They work but often take more than they give. Learning how to truly dissect a problem or not cause it in the first place might be better than painting over it.
I think you're pulling the Vulcan mind trick here Barry. "You don't need it - it does make certain things better - but don't buy it - nothing quite compares to analog gear - but you don't need it Hahaha. Kidding aside, I actually think you're giving a good life lesson that goes beyond analog gear. What do we "really" need?? You know there's really only one way to find out...try it and buy it, or try it and deny it. Keep up the good work...
I can say from experience that once I got some Neve Pre amps and master bus comps and sent my 'in the box mix" out to the hardware and then back? night and day. Its kind of subtle but not really. Its the little nuances. Or as you say "marginal bump". Yet to me my mixes have never sounded better.
I have a rack full of dust magnets and a table full of expensive paperweights. In-the-box is all you really need.
I'm liking the idea of throwing that Heritage 3k in my 10x10 home studio more and more.
Barry, I agree with most of what you say and how you use your outboard gear. Lately, I have been cutting back on using plugins. I am basically down to SSL/Slate and UA. One thing that I do a bit different from you is on my channel strip. I have a couple different ones, but for my vocal I always the same vocal mic, Rode NT2A and my SSL Alpha channel stirp. The reason that I am the only one using it is that the combination of the two work for my voice. I use just the smallest amount of compression to tame the peaks and a bit of the EQ to add some fullness to my voice. Once I was getting the result I wanted from the SSL and Rode, I said 'This is my setup and everyone else can use the Neve, Midas or Focusrite ISA 2 Channel or my RME UCXII.' So I have one setup for me and options for others.
Thank you Barry
I would suggest to eq on the way in, but always record a version without eq. I only have 2 nice eqs so being able to have them on more tracks is good, but my success rate is only about 70% so backups are a life saver. Especially since I don't have a separate control room.
Thank you, this confirmed my shopping plans! 🙂
EQing on the way in can be a challenge when working alone, but in situations with a dedicated engineer/producer/etc, it was done pretty much always for most of recorded music history. It's not worth the risk on a vocal usually when working alone (aside from perhaps an analog hipass is handy). But on a lot of other things, I have enough experience to know what a drum or a specific other instrument is going to need EQ-wise, and analog EQ does sound quite a bit different. Still, the preamp and compressor are the main bang-for-the-buck with hardware channel strips.
I went from plug-ins to analog because it sounds the way I like it which primarily means depth so not flat sounding. I tested Access Analog and it was over!
All that bling🔥🔥🔥🔥
I agree Barry. I grew up mostly in the analogue era so it's almost nostalgic to have a a few pieces of hardware around. I did buy the API channel strip a few years ago because it has a great EQ, preamp and compressor on board that can be used as hardware inserts separately AND it was cheaper than buying the modules separately in 500 series.
Hey hope all is well,eye really enjoy u very much u have open my eye to a lot of things I wouldn’t have considered I buy things from sweet water a lot I would now start using your link what u are putting out there is worth at least to me a whole lot I am close to your age thank u very much I leave in Tennessee, Have a blessed day! 😊
Good points man. I’m super selective on outboard. I’d rather invest in microphones.
If the customer enjoys the food, they could care less how it was cooked and what it was cooked on with what spatula, etc. etc.
I'm currently racking a couple of dbx compressors just for the ability to apply subtle compression and then a little limiting before hitting my interface.
The patch bay is up and rocking now too. For fun and a little flavor, I've also got 8 channels of actual tape routed as hardware inserts.
My old rack verb gives me a little 80's small plate vibe as an insert.
Beyond this, I am curious about a decent master bus comp down the road but as you've said, it's not necessary.
Very timely. I am pulling the trigger on my first ever compressor to pair with my preamp within the next few weeks. I will be experimenting with it exactly as suggested. It is exciting! It's a hybrid comp with Solid State FET and TUBE Optical at the press of a button.
Cool. Which one?
It impresses the client makes them think your better then the next studio. Hardware creates inspiration when you walk in the room.
...then they realise they have been dooped when they are left with a mid sccooped out mess...ooops 😅
@@Notinserviceij 😂😂
I just bought the behringer spring reverberation 636 and it’s beautiful. 200$ well spent on a real reverb . It a one trick wonder and I love it .
Ayyye Barry’s back! Barry ain’t playin around, wow!! Dropping videos like crazy!!
I’m trying😜
100% True! It's much more tactical, enjoyable and sounds better to my ears, depending on the source. If I had space and the money to have some Great Gear, I would absolutely do it. Until then In-the-box is my work flow but will continue to work for some additional analog gear. Let not forget, you can't polish a turd. Cheers Berry I really love to hear what you have to say about real topics we common folks deal with.
Love the content you put out, and your common sense. I record using a Neumann TLM 102 and/or a Shure SM 81, through an RME Fireface UCX II, without any other hardware. The result is always muddy, so I need to EQ the hell out of a recording for clarity. Would a two channel preamp tremendously improve the quality? If so, which ones would you recommend? 10:43
I need me some of that "Analog Goodness"😍
I definitely enjoy using hardware on the way in. I have a good number of mojo preamps but since I got my console the pres in it have sorta taken over just out of convenience. I am one of those who will tend to do eq on the way in, and decisions I make with hardware I tend to be happy with throughout the project.
Thanks, Barry!
I am recording in the box since 2008 and mixing in the box since 2016/17.
I have decided to go analog in recording and mixing (which I am doing slowly, because of the money). I started with Elysia Skulpter, I am still working on it to know better and better what this (to me)nice preamp does. The reason I am going analog is just because I want to improve the sound. It will take a while but I am enjoying it all.
The further step will be the Marc One from SPL, which will take the place of my older Interface. The Marc One is no Interface, it is a recording and monitor controller with 32 bit A/D converter.
I already have the amazing (to me) Phonitor 2 from SPL (Headphones preamp with analog Crossfeed).
For the others pieces of gear that I have in mind I will stay with Elysia Qube also for EQ and compression.
Until now I am recording acoustic guitar with the Elysia preamp and , if my ears are not "wrong", it does a really nice work.
And, yes, since music is my passion, too, these are the toys I am looking for.
Thanks for the channel
good video advice
Making music is for me, I'm not a professional but I aim for quality. I have a few toys for vocals and everything else is in the box. To date, I have my interface, an ECI mic pre (which is a beast imo) and an Art Voice-Channel. I have 2 mics, an NT1 and an SM7B. Bought a iCon QCon Pro X for mixing and feel like I have everything I need. I do have an Akai MPK249 but it ends with that. Anything else I may decide to get in the future are just additional toys.
Fine words indeed.........enough said
I love this guy!
I´m happy going 100% in the box when mixing but I use some fancy hardware synthesizers when creating music.
I sent a mix through my Art Pro VLA 2 , unlinked mode , and didn't even use the compressor, just went through the tube gain stage , and it made the mix sound so much more 3D .... There is something about real analog gear that plugins can't do , in my opinion ... REAL is better than an emulation....
This is encouraging as it is my only outboard compressor at the momemt. I think I am going to pick up a FET soon as well.
I can’t think of anything hardware can do which plugins cannot. That 3d effect can also alot of plugins give you. UAD Ampex ATR-102 is one of them. The belief that hardware does always sound better than plugins, is simply not true. There is no reason why plugins in 2024 cannot sound way better than hardware. There is alot of romantic myths about analog. One of them is that analog has greater headroom than digital processors. But this is not true…in a 24bit (or 32bit) recording/mix envinronment (like most DAWS) the headroom is MUCH bigger than what ever was possible with hardware..
Exactly! Admittedly ive purchaced a lot of software but i Can't sell plugins when im done with them... Hardware i can sell/trade and try something else, significantly reducing the cost making it a little easier to continue to do what i love doing... Absolutely nothing wrong with analogue... i like the bling tho 😅
Barry, thanks so much for the insightful content. What about three outboards; UAD 710D4, Louder than Liftoff Mk2 and Tegelee Creme together. Is that redundant or a buy less buy better solution?
The universal audio 6176 is a great package
Just what I needed to hear Barry, I have been tempted into spending money but being brutally honest with myself I should focus more on the quality of content and utilising what I have in the box, at my level the difference does not justify the outlay, and its just a distraction from improving my skills as a songwriter and engineer. I totally appreciate that for those at a more advanced level its a different set of considerations. thanks as always.
Hey Barry thanks for the info. I'm a newbie to this stuff and yeah, it's overwhelming ...would love to hear what you produce and are you making money with this?
Barry, I’ve been preaching this lately - I think there’s been a shift in our technology.. because everybody rocking portico 1073’s like myself… Laptop and an interface. It’s all you need- in the 2-4..
Or make some hard investments.
I’m fine with that. I love this stuff.
I picked up my first piece of hardware to focus on tracking mostly, an RND Newton Channel, and upgraded my interface to an RME babyface based on the thinking encouraged by Mr. Johns. I am very happy with these decisions but I don't know what I don't know. Have to say though that I enjoy recording at home much more now.
Could you do a comparison or some type of top hardware preamps?
I was in the studio biz for many years, and owned lots of good outboard. I sold most but kept a few pieces, like my 1176LN. I got an original UAD1 card, and compared the plug to my 1176 on a female vocal, and could not hear a difference. So I sold it all and haven’t looked back. If you can’t get a great sound with UA quality plugs, you’re not an audio engineer. I could easily mix with only Cubase plugs at this point.
Good tube amps seem to sell second hand for more and more. You can turn a profit if you buy used, after having it for a few years. Comes down to demand.
One thing I never really thought much about when purchasing a lot of high end hardware was the risk we take selling it. For example, shipping my massive passive was a harrowing experience - then the customer ripped me off - Reverb protection is a joke etc. You may lose significant amounts of time/money and deal with a ton of stress - sometimes for a couple months before a situation is fully resolved - something to consider.
Uncle Barry can you give us your take on studio monitors. We haven’t heard you speak very much on speakers.
Hahah love the slip of bling
For me, the biggest issue is that a piece of hardware only gets you one instance.
I bought enough tube hardware to do front end processing, and do the rest in the box.
do a video on integrating the 500 series racks with a DAW. thanks.
I’m working on a series of 500 series units.
Years ago I would purchase things I wanted to record with and so on.. but had to keep going to work (as a mechanic then). I was a wanna-be and still am :-) ... that said, now having time and nice equipment old, new and hardly used (less than 10 hours) ... type of new. ... I am wanting to record and so on .. and I am having a tough time trying to push to the computer screen ... ... taking about turning dials and so on ... Thanks for this video as it helps give balance in thinking about these matters. Maybe I'll just "be content" and do a good, .. no .. a great job with what I am blessed with. Tuscan, Focal are a couple of the systems ... ... pat
We keep an Avalon SP737 in every room, plugged into AC but not usually in the signal chain as its often a deal making Dumbo's Magic Feather when rapper's are deciding whether or not to use your studio. If you are doing a lot of rap, they pay for themselves pretty quick. I'll do everything I possibly can to keep from actually running a mic thru it, but if you have to, it'll work
🤣
Barry, I would love to hear your opinion on Pulsar Modular P42 Climax, it’s an expensive plug in that replaces hardware with a smile…
Send me all your Hardware Mr. Barry 😂
good video
What do you think of mixing in the box but then using analog to process the master buss or mixbuss, whatever the final stereo track is called?
I am not an experienced professional engineer by any stretch, but my first purchase was the SSL fusion, because I figured if I could get a better sounding master bus, it would have the biggest impact.
The minute I got the fusion I started running everything in a bunch of different tracks through it to see what would happen. I have no regrets to say the least. I do believe my songs come out sounding better. I still use plugins on the master bus too, but I like where your heads at, personally!
That's me. I want GEAR but I'm realistic at my age & not doing this a a Profession. I believe a PRE-AMP & Great Interface. The other thing I wanted to saw which a Statement we all hear about "A Boat Owner Best Day is the Day He Buy It!...& Sells It". For me I have owned around 15 Boats, & so I would tell my Clients " The DAY I Buy & Day I SELL it to BUY a BIGGER, BETTER ONE!" ...LOL. I found myself not really using my "EQ" on my Rupert Neve SHELFORD Channel on VOX going "IN" because of just what you said, Just SC to HP. Thx Barry
I'm still trying to justify the price of my Neve Newton lol. I bought it because I was tired of ear fatigue from all the mixing inside the box so I wanted as close to finished as possible before the mix. Slight eq going in and compression. I bought the Neve because I know I can sell it for a good price also
Did the newton do the job for you or you feel like you could have done without it?
@JWtheOnlyChild it's probably overkill for me because I only use it for tracking vocals. I thought about the 1073 but I wanted my "own sound" using red or blue silk to my tasting.
it’s not truly needed at this point. I’d only get a distressor and a mcdsp APB.
My Audioscape G Bus comp is considerably better than any of the comparable plugins, and that includes the UA one. Yes, the hardware is better. That being said, none of this is as important as a great song. That is the most important thing.
If you can , EQ a signal on its way in ,adding some highs .... It's ALWAYS better using plugin EQ to CUT , because plugin eqs for adding highs is not as good as having the highs initially recorded .... This info ...from Bruce Swedien.... So...I BELIEVE IT !! 👍😛
word !
To be honest, I find the frequent mentions of clones a bit frustrating.I value quality and prefer to purchase only authentic equipment.
Barry, one thing you’re not addressing, is the fact that software /computers don’t really have much resell value.
Case in point, I bought an 1176 10 years ago that is literally worth at least twice what I paid for it.
Even my Audioscape V Comp Deluxe is worth more used than what I paid for it 2 years ago. My BAE 19” 1073 could and would sell for what I paid for it.
Please don’t confuse me with the “trolls”, but I am a big fan of your candid gear reviews, and A/B or X vs Y comparisons.
My request , is that you a re-amping video.
All the analog guys are freaking out when Barry said you don’t need it. They probably need therapy now Lmaooooo
Until he said he couldn’t live without it ....
Engineers are not sales people, they're too busy making records to worry about whether someone thinks it's necessary or not. ;)
His audience is made up of hobbyists and not professionals or aspiring professionals. You do you and be happy. No need to negativity speak of others
@@mrdenson3101 First off, many pro's do watch Barry. Only audio sales people would or should be the ones "freaking out" by Barry's statement. Since they earn their living selling hardware. There's a misnomer that engineers who use hardware are defensive about it. It's really laughable to be honest. Don't see where the negativity is?? But hey, it's a forum, you're going to get lots of differing view points.
Nothing gets close to hardware eq, Pro q3 is great, but hardware eq is unmatched.
"Bling" it is sir hahaha.
I agree with you but only if the purpose is to mix, then yeah plugins are fine, probably better when comes to recall etc. but if the idea is to be recording, then I disagree fully with you! All great music recorded today has amazing analog gear! From u47 to nice preamps and compressors!
But… why does it seem so much easier to hear the changes in a track by turning a knob or adjusting a slider?
I have a harder time making audio decisions in the box, as much as I try.
Maybe it’s all in my head, but not having to deal with updates/upgrades breaking other software, renewing licenses, and the truckload of time that restoring functionality that worked yesterday costs… hardware appeals far more.
At some point if you’re doing this professionally with clients, some hardware is definitely warranted. Even if you’re calling yourself and engineer, knowing how to work with hardware is an important skill to have. It would be pretty sad to have spent years, honing the craft of engineering to finally get a call to work in a big studio and you’re clueless in that environment.
I love shopping the secondhand market. Sometimes you get extremely good deals and if you’re already looking at one of those more inexpensive units that’s going to lose value as soon as you buy it (like a car) you might as well buy one that’s already lost that initial value.
Excellent advice. Where were you $25,000 ago?
People need to ignore people on YT (including this guy) and choose what works for them. They aren’t making your music nor have your goals. Sure, often people don’t have a need for what they buy. At the same time, this guy nor anyone else isn’t paying your bills nor understands your financial situation. You have to think logically for yourself.
It’s sound advice but not inclusive for everyone.
Turn the screen off and mix. That’s it
Came up with hardware…huge consoles….Studer tape machines…I don’t miss them at all…yeah it looks cool and you can impress your friends. Good riddance….
Love ur videos bro...... you old mother f er!!
😭😂
in my case gear investment its my own pleasure interacting with hardware i don't give rats a$$ if that makes me any income its purely for brain functionality and mind therapy. if you always use gps you'll be lost without it
Bling
500 series 😂
I am working on a 500 series set of videos.
I strongly disagree with "maybe getting 50% back". Any of my Warm Audio equipment I've sold, I've gotten closer to 80% back. I'm not sure why so many people try to create the narrative that Warm Audio doesn't retain value or doesn't show good results. I know you didn't knock on the results in this video, but a lot of people do. Buying a Warm Audio LA2A clone is $1000. That is not a cheap investment, especially for a one channel compressor. Meanwhile, people will lose their shit for the 2 channel ART Pro VLA compressor that cost $450. I think high-end users have a bad taste in their mouth for Warm Audio because they know it gets extraordinarily close or just as good as their argueably overpriced equipment, at a lower price. I mean really think about it. You just made a whole video arguing that the differences in software versus hardware are marginal. How could a piece of clone hardware be worse than that? The only thing I can knock Warm Audio for is their quality control. But anytime I've ever had a problem with them they've made it right very quickly. Their customer service adds value to their equipment. I can't say that about a lot of other brands. They'll send me a replacement part free of charge and I'll have it in two days. I've gone off on a rant. I apologize, but Jesus there's a lot of remarks about Warm Audio that attempt to devalue it. I own high-end gear and Warm Audio gear and both are wonderful investments.
Go look at the sold listings on Reverb, that’s where I get it using actual data, so that’s where.
@@BarryJohns I would suggest that the lower sales come from sellers that are inpatient or have damaged their equipment. I see recently the WA2A sold for $800 and $760 which would come within that 80% mark that I spoke of.
95% of all professionally recorded music is EQ and compressed on the way in BUT if you don’t know what you’re doing, then don’t do it.
There was a time that was true, it hasn’t been for quite a while.
@@BarryJohnsBig fan of your channel! Respectfully, I’ll have to disagree completely. Any modern country, pop, or rock done in a big studio, not someone’s bedroom, is going in through an API or NEVE console with other outboard gear as well. And that still accounts for most mainstream music. There are definitely outliers, but they are definitely using EQ and Compression on the way in. I know because I work with a lot of them. Even session players that record from home often have at least EQ going on in the way in. Some of them use LUNA or UAD CONSOLE and commit the plugins, but it’s the same idea.
Makes sense to me as a beginner. I start with EQ / compressor during arrangement (mixing, or however you guys call it), not earlier. When I lose frequencies, I'll never get them back, so I keep them as long as I can.
APOGEE gives the People plus 75 Db (!) gain on the MIC preamp on their interface ; ) . Digital is King in 2024 . People have to trust the process