Want a Control Surface - Watch This First
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- čas přidán 12. 04. 2024
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I spent the first 15 years of my career working with a Mackie HUI. Eventually retired those and tried working without a control surface. That lasted about 3 years and I've been using a PreSonus Faderport 16 for the last two and a half years. Lesson learned, having access to physical faders, mute and solo buttons and dedicated transport controls are just too important to the way I work to go without. The control surface has proved itself to be truly indispensable during VO and ADR tracking sessions - especially now that so many clients are directing remotely.
I am from the old analog time, 24" tape, and a 48 channel board. I move faster with faders and even though I am proficient with a mouse and keyboard, I will be faster with faders. So for me a controller is a must. The faster I mix the better my mixes are.
Such a practical and honest video, Barry. Well done.
I bought an old Digi/Focusrite Control 24 in great cosmetic shape for $700 from a local studio. I then found another used/non-functioning one for $100, which I promptly tore apart for spare parts (faders, transport buttons, jog wheel, knobs, etc.). After buying a rebuilt power supply for the nice Control 24 and the requisite software to run it with Logic (V-Control Pro by Neyrinck), I am about $1,500 into the whole project. That might seem pricey for a 20-year-old relic, but to get something new with 24 motorized faders, a decent meter bridge, and various transport and plugin controls-at that price point-would leave me only one option: a Behringer X-Touch with two extenders. The Behringer stuff isn’t bad, but it’s plastic, while my Control 24 is 88 lbs. of steel sheet metal and ABS. It looks professional and understated compared to the Xmas tree lights of the Behringer.
I like putting my hands on faders. I think riding a fader or two adds a human feel that drawing perfect automation curves lacks.
That said, I didn’t actually NEED one. I could do everything with a mouse and save the trouble of keeping a piece of vintage gear running. But it just looks awesome in my project studio. It’s 2-3x bigger than a Faderport 16, and I’ll grant you that a lot of that size is wasted space and hardware (the built-in preamps are junk compared to what’s available today, so no one uses them), but I suppose I could use the preamps if I ever wanted to mix a live recording on the fly (which I will likely never do).
But the fact of the matter is that, to use the jargon of gun reviewer NutnFancy, this is about “second cool.” “First cool” is a term for the practical qualities of a device, whereas “second cool” is purely aesthetic and subjective, i.e., how the device affects you emotionally. So for me, the Control 24 has some “first cool” practical applications as a mixing tool, but it mostly has a “second cool” mojo I just love. And that’s okay.
Thanks for all you do, Barry! Keep up the good fight!
I think you make a good point where truly the choice for people is whether one just loves the idea of having a control surface or actually needs it for improved workflow. I am considering the Presonus Faderport and I have Studio One. What I have to reconcile is whether it will really help because up to now, I am doing well without it.
Barry’s working like crazy! Wow! A lot of uploads
nice video - articulate and organized. I use a SSL system the mixing/mastering station in my studio with Reaper - SSL UF8, UF1, UC1, Bus +, SSL 12, Fusion, Big Six, Pure Drive Quad
I am of the Gen X generation, so I prefer touching knobs, buttons, faders, books as it makes me feel more connected to the task at hand and I retain the information better. Once I got the opportunity to work with control surfaces there was no looking back regardless of the quirks. I use the UF8, UF1, UC1 for Pro Tools and Cubase. I agree Pro Tools needs to get with the modern times and change their protocols.
I use my control surface for only one reason, and that’s when I need to do more than one thing at a time like moving more than one fader or pressing mute and solo at the same time to compare signals. But these situations happen often enough and are very crucial at times so it’s a good reason to have one.
Well said and I agree. One thing I'll add is that if people are going to try it, they need to fully commit to it and really dig into it for a set period of time. Just like switching out things on your mix bus, you have to work through it.
I've been on control surfaces most of my career and I cant work without them. I can fader ride an entire drum kit or up to 8 (my thumbs don't give you enough room to move 😅) guitars simultaneously.
This also applies to things like Streamdeck. Most people I talk to that don't really use it is because they never took the time to really dive in to learn and program it.
Awesome job again!
Im still new to using a control surface. Im a Studio One user and decided to give the Faderport 16 a try. So far im loving it. Having a hands on approach has helped my workflow and inspiration. As a guitarist i really enjoy being able to use a footswitch to punch in and out too. After using this for about 2 months i will say that i would have been more than happy with the Faderport 8 instead of the 16. I like the idea of having 16 faders and it looks awesome on my desk, but in reality i dont need that many faders for my own work and it takes up a lot of space on my desk. I definitely use the transport controls and other track controls like arming tracks more than the faders, but i do use the faders a bunch as well. So far i have only used a fraction of what its capable of and havent even scratched the surface, but im looking forward to using it more and more.
When you’re mixing and writing automation, you’ll use the faders plenty.
Thank you that's helpful. I am in the market for a PreSonus fader port, I have studio one too and right now just use keyboard mouse and it's ok, but I was born-bread on hands-on mixing. It seems impractical if you have a lot of tracks. A typical song for me has 30-40 tracks. Once I get everything where I want it, I am down to a few individual tracks and just the busses so the 8 port might just suffice, although I have room for the 16 port.
The real key is compatibility and how well the surface integrates with your DAW. I use a PF16 with Studio One. Plug and play, works great. I've use others with other DAWs and it was too easy to waste time with troubleshooting and configuring.
Then again, if you can be productive with a keyboard and mouse, go for it!
thanks for your thoughts and suggestions. Love your channel - good job!
Several years back I got one. I've never really bonded with it. I'm just too used to working with a mouse.
Been using the mouse for mixing for the last 25 years or so, and recently finally got myself a control surface, After about a week of getting used to using it, I can't believe I didn't get one years ago. Sure, most of the editing is still done with a mouse and keyboard, but I work WAY faster when doing actual mixing now than before. For me that's absolutely a good thing.
I've had several. I love the idea but ultimately work just as fast without.
After you buy one or two and then watch support for them vanish, you start to rethink things a bit.
There have been many very cool and useful surfaces over the years. They all seem to be missing something significant in some way and then become paperweights.
I have a collection building.
Great channel Barry. Thx
I used to have a Tascam US-2400 with my protools rig, back in 2010. Loved it. Back then, the cheaper control surfaces didn't do much more than have transport control, panning and faders but for how i work, nothing beats riding a fader or pan pot when writing automation. got out of the game for a decade, sold everything i had and got back into this a few years ago. Have been slowly buying stuff, and a new control surface is on my wish list. I didn't know the SSL series didn't work as well on Pro tools... that's what I as going to look into, but was also considering a faderport. Will have to do some research and see what features i'd be missing and if it even matters for my use. I love the idea of the new plugin mapping thing they released and I just love grabbing a fader when mixing.
Great video, Barry! BTW, how do you keep in shape and keep from getting fatigued with long hours at the console? A video on that topic would be great.
I was wondering what would be some examples of what you can't do with the SSL control surfaces in pro tools that you can do in other DAWs? I have all the SSL control surfaces and have recently switched from Logic to Pro Tools and haven't found anything different other then the follow track when you click? Just curious what other limitations are? In fact in Pro Tools it allows you to control the nudge of clips with the channel wheel on the UF8 which I absolutely love that feature for editing and logic did not allow that feature. Dig your channel thanks.
I had the presonus faderport 1, worked nice, now I have the Behringer X touch one, like that very much. It's nice to use the mouse with the right hand and the controller with the left.
Our Behringer X-Compact w 9 faders still rockin'.
Love my Console One. BUT - It was most certainly a learning curve. Training a new muscle. I came up on DAWs and with a mouse workflow. For awhile, it felt a lot easier using a mouse for that reason. Eventually - I started using one fader at a time - I realized that I liked the ability to click on a track, and automatically have a fader at my disposal to use for volume. Then, I realized panning was infinitely easier too. Fast forward - I adore it and use it a lot, in conjunction with other plugins of course.. I still kind of like the solidity and predictability of automating with a mouse, but I do use my faders sometimes too (mostly when I want ot feel like a badass lol).
What advantageous timing! I’ve spent the better part of this week deciding if I should invest in a control surface or not. As a pro tools user on a budget, I think my best bet would be artist mix because of EUCON. I would mainly use it just for the tactile feel of connecting with the music in the box, using faders for volume, some transport control, and knobs for panning. With things that basic I wonder if the investment would be worth it if I still plan on doing all my plugin mapping with mouse and keyboard. My main contemplation would be if the tactile feel would connect me more to the music, and being able to balance multiple tracks at the same time.
I have an iCon QCon Pro X and will turn my screen off when mixing! It helps a ton to focus on what I'm listening to vs what I'm seeing.
For me, it’s the ergonomics that frustrate me. I just bought an SSL UF1, and UC1 and while they are awesome, I found it was tiring to constantly pick my hands up and move them to the side to turn knobs. I am a composer so my desk is covered with my midi controllers, so any mixing controllers will have to be on a stand to my side. I found myself using the mouse on the 360 mixing software more because I don’t have to twist and turn and everything is literally right in front of me. I am considering keeping the uf1 though because I can squeeze that on my desk and see the eq curves from the ssl channel strip.
I use the UA-Midi-Control every day along with the Behringer fcb 1010 for Channelstrips and fx , Launchcontrol Xl for Faders and sends and faderfox pc4 for the Neves. I am a guitar player and not a studio technician, so it took me years to get into it. I have the Softube Console mk2 but stopped using it because it is too big for my desk.
I use the automation on my api works great
Well…..Check out Yamaha Nuage….by far the best daw controller ever made (for Cubase and Nuendo)
The problem I have with surface control interfaces is that they don’t work with Reaper unless you do endless assignments to the feeders and buttons so I never use those things unfortunately I don’t so you can’t really control FX parameters with that unless you assign them which I find it distracting I would love some control in a phase that you plug it in it works with Reaper and it’s gonna look through all of the parameters in your VST did you have fun did you have inserted on the track and you have instant access to any plug-in over anytime and you can control everything through that you don’t have to use your computer for changing promoters of the plug-ins so I’d rather do it all with my keyboard since I’m blind so I don’t use the mouse and since I don’t use specific manufacture plug-ins I use mix of some people plug-ins so it’s not really like I can go ahead and buy a soft tube or SSL or something because it might work with extra G plug-ins but not with others so therefore I’m staying out of that since it’s more hassle than working with the keyboard
Sorry for the jumbled mess I didn’t have time to spell it all correctly I used to dictate function on my phone I know this is very lazy from my part but I was too lazy to type it out
Have you built any guitars in your workshop? I'm in a similar situation where i do music and woodworking. Also have you had the chance to check out the SSL puredrive preamps (I think based off the origin). I haven't seen a lot of talk about them.
I have tried working with a control surface. The problem is that it is quite cumbersome to program it for a big amount of plugins. Most of the control surfaces only work with a few plugins, since i use so many different plugins/instruments etc, the control surface was more hinderance than help.
I have a single fader control surface that I use for automation riding, but that is the only thing I do with it.
The issue is that you're trying to use a regular control surface to control plugins. What you need instead is the "MIDI Fighter Twister" by DJ Tech Tools. It's the best plugin controller in the world and because it's only sold from their website, very few people know about it. As long as you're using a DAW like Studio One or Cubase or Ableton Live which has robust MIDI mapping to a controller, you will map all of your plugins to it once and it will remember the mappings forever. And because the encoders are so smooth and high resolution, you will get the perfect control when you turn the knob. Very few people understand this, so you are now one of the few. 🙂
Barry, have you used or looked at the Icon control surfaces?
Which one works the best with Cubase?
I bought Nio at $17 in 2020 it ran to 57, I bought huge at 57 also ….everyone was saying it was going over $100 I managed to sell enough to pay off my car and house thank God!..but I am down in another account like $210k ouch! Simi retired now living on a modest pension and money
I love my A&H SQ5 as an interface and controller. It doesn’t marry perfectly to to S1 but imo it’s a better board than the S1series 3 boards. If Fender would up the S1 series lll board to 96k ability I might be willing to jump.
The SQ works in Logic Pro as well
All that said, I use the FaderPort 8 with my portable rig and REALLY like the tactile and integration with S1.
Things I use: AVID Media Composer and Presonus Studio One ☝️ so based on what you said, in this video, I’m leaning towards the SSL control surface.
And I’ll definitely use your link!
Great vid and perspective. Timely too, I am a longtime Cubase/Nuendo user (rejoiced when I left PT and never looked back) and have been wanting to add a controller. I have no real idea where to start, dont want to drop the money on a Nuage system as its very long in the tooth. Icon V1 M? SSL UF8? Avid? Anyone recommend anything that plays solidly Cubase and Wave Lab ?
Still using my Avid Artist Mix but I believe 2024 is the last year of support. I got it to work on S1 and Reaper but doesn't work as well. Still love it
I left it all behind and use Logic as a tape recorder.
Asparion D400 is the way to go, expandable, and just right.
Now that the softube console has the uad integration i use my mouse a lot less. Only thing I feel I'm missing now is a jog wheel to scrub thru my timeline
My life would be a lot harder without my faderport 16
I have the PreSonus 64s III controlling Studio One 6. ALOTTA musicians have asked me WHY w/ such a small One-Man Studio, & my answer is quite simple: 'TAKES'. As a drummer/keyboardist/vocalist of over 50+yrs & cummin'-up from 'The Old Skool' reel-2-reel punch-in & out tech days, I've ALWAYS usually been able 2 nail a track within 3 takes on average. However, not ALL the musicians I've had 2 record are capable of THAT -HENCE the 64 tracks. I have the ability 2 allow a recording artist up 2 64 takes. Often times while another take is req'd due 2 a flub/sour note, or what have U, on the subsequent take, a musician may fix ONE mistake on a track -ONLY 2 make ANOTHER somewhere ELSE! THIS is where the 'Digital Magic' (that I did NOT have in the 70's/80's & 90's cums-in! I take the BEST parts of ALL the takes, cut-out the flubs & sour notes -& SPLICE ALL the Good Parts together 2 complete a FLAWLESS track (GAWD how I wished this ability was around when I FIRST started Multi-Track Recording!🙄)... As 4 the integration of Control Surface & DAW, ANYTIME I can avail myself of the FREEDOM from the mouse (such as automation, etc.) -I take the TIME 2 learn it on the Control Surface!🧐 The StudioLive 64s III is STILL a $4,000 'Tool-That-Looks-Kool', & I'd be a liar if I said otherwise -BUT THAT is NOT why I bought it. I bought it because I moved over from DigiDesign Pro-Tools (who dominated the digital recording world back around The Turn O' The Century -I took a college course on it, BTW) -Over 2 Studio One over a decade ago. AND, not 2B 4gotten -having a board that integrates w/a DAW WELL is a MUST!🦋✨👽
Mouse and qwerty keyboard are my only controllers.
I came up on analog consoles, but I also started using Cubase way back in the ‘80s. I don’t think physical faders would be very valuable for me. The only thing I miss is EQing with knobs, although it may be I just miss the analog EQ itself!
Check out my vides on Softube Console 1, awesome for plugin control and layed out much better.
@@BarryJohns Thanks, and I have seen your vids on how Console 1, and recently the one on how it is now supporting UA plugs, which I’ve used for years, and it’s got me pretty intrigued! If I can also use it with some of my favorite plugs in Cubase, I think it could be great for me.
However, I have picked up about 1500 free shares from swing trading, I will keep doing that until I double my original share count of 3800. I don’t think Nio will ever get back to $40-60 anytime soon. Maybe 4-5 years from now if now levels up and figures out how to market the hell out of there battery swap option.
Lately when I turn on my Artist Series controllers and open a session in Logic Pro X on a MacPro Tower Eucon does not sync to Logic. Both Apple and Avid need to address this. Eucon software has existing bugs that need to be resolved. Eucon and Logic use to work flawlessly back in the day, what happened?
S1 and Dock work flawlessly for me in both Pro Tools and Logic (latest versions). I have them both open at the same time and it automatically changes to focused DAW. Be sure to update EUControl to latest version if you’ve not already done so.
@@Superscan2027 My Eucon software is up to date - Eucon has bugs and Avid is aware of it and yet they are doing nothing!
The closest i have got to "the" controller experience is Reaper, Realearn, and the faderfox EC4. Mapping it is an absolute chore But it's in the end better than SSL (i have UC1).
If you’re new and learning you probably don’t need one right away.…but when need one you’ll know.
For my hip-hop mixing and mastering engineers you can get the best award winning mixes and masters with plugins your mouse and keyboard, listen to Barry he's the truth.
The ones with motorized faders and memory recall are great but they are Absolutely unnecessary for a home or project studio.They are not going to make your recordings or mixes sound any better. Spend that money on a better mic or pair of studio monitors instead.
Your control surface with motorized automation will need to be repaired at some point. It will not be... inexpensive. It takes up real estate in front of you. The best ones are DAW specific and represent a large sunken cost to that DAW should you decide to go in another direction. Another thing to draw power and heat up your room.
Not sure I agree with this. The most likely repair will be fader replacement which is easily done and inexpensive. Most are not DAW specific. Lastly it generates next to zero heat.
I bought one and honestly it was such a waste of money! As someone who spends time looking at screens - All its good for is pressing start and stop
S1 + epoxy cmon show us
Nope….don’t want a control surface….
Control surfaces are unnecessary. I started doing this stuff in the 1980's when we needed to 'move faders' etc...I celebrate EVERY DAY that I no longer need to do that.....ITB is where it's AT!!!
Unnecessary? Sure. I can get all my work finished with a keyboard and trackball. Do I want to? No. My control surface makes doing my job a heck of a lot easier.
@@jimschnobrich5078 glad it works for you...glad to not use one.
In all things practice makes it better. The presonus single fader port only drove me crazy because you have to focus the channel to get the most out of it and that was really cumbersome to me. Might be great for someone who is just doing a couple tracks. The Avid S3 and dock do way more than I wanted but I’m always finding new functions to add to my work flow with it even years after I started using it. Only thing I don’t like about it are the updates. Seems to break when PT updates and then having to update firmware when I just wanted to mix or start a tracking session is annoying.