You really knocked my ego with that “orange is hideous” comment. Been waiting for this bike all year and just took delivery…and I love it. Almost didn’t give you a thumbs up but I can’t quit you Lama. Looking forward to more Di2 content, great work as always!
Bloody hard getting hold of it! I’ve just bought my group set today and will be doing the same upgrade shortly too on my Cannondale SupersixEvo Ultegra mechanical
I looked at the same bike here in Singapore and I told the guy if it came in any other colour I would buy it. I even took my wife in to see it recently and she say ‘ooooff, what were they thinking?’
The black and plastic cable tool ships inside the RD-R8150 box no extra charge at least in Japan. The SD300 cables are super thin and can still be used to wire the shifters. That way no need to worry about replacement of the coin cell batteries. Also, seems like the satellite shifters require the fully wired configuration (won’t work over wireless). Good luck with the upgrade!
12 speed and upgrade obsessed. I don't blame you as I stay current on all latest tech as well but not always on my bike :) Great job as usual Shane, blazing the path for everyone. On a serious note I like what I see so far.
Crossed over 2500 miles on this groupset last week and love it. Just a couple of notes: - Yes, the tool for the cables should be in with the RD. - When doing the bench testing, to upgrade shifters, just unplug the FD and use that cable to plug in one shifter at a time to flash its firmware. - Finding the charging cable connection to be a nuisance as with the bike upright it is a guess on alignment. 2500 miles on just 3 charges, can’t complain given the infrequency. - First shift every day serves a the wake up signal so get used to just shifting once when you start your ride.
Good to see that Shane has fun playing with the Di2. Bad for me: I want to play too but I will wait for GRX 12 speed Di2. Thanks Shane. No I have to save money 🤪
I was lucky enough to get the R8100 on a new bike which arrived mid-Dec 2021 (after waiting a few months, of course). It was worth the wait. You’re going to love it mate. Melbourne weather has been crap, but managed to get a 100km outdoors today and every time I shifted gears it felt like butter 🫠
I changed over from etap 11sp and the shifting performance is a big improvement! Only gripe is charging from the RD, it’s a bit fiddly connecting the charger cable in the right orientation while holding the cover open without lying on the ground. Guess I was accustomed to just removing the battery and chucking it on the charger
Shifting with the 12 speed di2 ULTEGRA is a big improvement compared to the sram FORCE etap...it also looks sleeker and more modern. I always felt that the sram etap red crank was so augly and somewhat outdated with the silver.
I thought about doing this group set upgrade from mechanical Canyon Ultimate but right at the moment it’s so hard to get the 12 speed Di2 components through bikebug and Pushys in one go. I’m not surprised you needed patience to get it all together !! The wireless is what’s attractive not having to worry about the old Di2 cables on what it a mechanical frame so had a few wiring challenges.
A couple more notes on the new R8100: - Hyperglide+, this is a serious improvement as shifts on the rear cassette are great - even under load. - Shifts on the front chainring will leave you looking at the crank to see if it actually shifted. - Other than weight, the shifting performance is the biggest difference between the new Ultegra R8100 and the new 105 Di2 as the 105, like the R8000, doesn’t have the new feed ramps - If you bounce between bikes, one with the R8000, and the other bike the new R8100, you will absolutely know which is which.
@@BharathRamh You would need to use the Ultegra or DA chain too. I don’t know if the RD has different timing or stepping movement though. The difference between R8000 and R8100 shifting is dramatic.
@@BharathRamh You might have to make a choice on the lowest cog too, 36 105 v 34 Ultegra/DuraAce. Sizing differences on front chain rings too - at least at launch.
Just ordered my new Shimano Ultegra Di2 12 Speed Groupset Shayne last week . Everything except the Cranks & ChainRings . I have gone 4 Rotor Carbon Cranks 172.5 mm & ×2 ChainRings . A 52/36 & 53/39 . Have also ordered sprinter switches . Will add a 50/34 down the track ( perhaps ) Rotor is lighter & the ease 2 which u can swap out chainrings is fabulous. Only downside 2 the Rotor Cranks is they are $$$$ than the Ultegra. Reason 4 not purchasing the Shimano Cranks , 2 reasons. Rotor is lighter & the main reason is Shimano have been having issues with there Cranks Breaking & deny there is a problem . Ordered 11/34 & 11/30 cassettes . 4 my 2 pairs of Roval Carbon Wheels. 32mm climbing wheels & 40mm Tubulars 4 Crits . Also yesterday ordered a Tacx Neo2T indoor trainer with the new plates that DC Rainmaker reviewed which gives u backwards/forwards motion. I am upgrading from mechanical, so it will be a big stepup 4me on my Specialized Tarmac.
I just keep thinking...man, you'd not want to impact that derailleur!! I couldn't own a bike with this new system...I'd be too scared to ride the thing in case I laid it on its side...or worse, it just fell over at the local café in a stiff breeze 😳😳
I've upgraded 3 bikes so far. All of my RD's came with the cable tool, so I've got a spare if you need one. :P Also, I saw a comment on another channel that implied that you get 50% better battery life if you cable the shifters to the battery instead of running them wireless. I have a mechanical brake (rim brake) version of this groupset and those shifters are NOT wireless. i had to incorporate a 4 port junction to wire the shifters to the battery. If the battery life claims turn out to be true, I may go ahead and run wires to all of my shifters..
I found the little plastic thingy in the bottom of my rubbish boxes! Have you had any issues with the '5th gear skipping' Jim? I'm hearing a few people with this.
Am I the only one who always ends up having to buy shifters and brake calipers separately? The kits with shifter and caliper are always out of stock when I want them, so I end up having to bleed a completely empty system. Anyway, can't wait to see the TCR get its update. 🙂
Great primer but one thing to mention -- for Dura-Ace anyway - I went to the trouble of buying the EW-SD300 tool and found one was included with my rear derailleur. Nice of Shimano to include this with an $800 part, isn't it? lol.
FYI, the part number for the Di2 tool is TL-EW300. You had it listed wrong on your list of parts. I will be looking forward to your test of the Dura Ace PM!
I can't believe the price level of the battery ! A 7,4 V (2 cells) 500 mAh battery for the same price I pay for two 10,8V (12V) 6Ah batteries and a charger from Bosch Prof... if this is indicative of the Shimano margin on the Di2 system I'm very sorry I don't have a lot of Shimano stock ! The SRAM eTap battery is slightly lower capacity (7,4V 300mAh) and at less than half the price. You need two of them so you will end up with higher total battery capacity on a 2X setup but you probably shift the rear a lot more than the front so you would need to "cycle" the batteries to take advantage of that. I was under the impression that the reason Shimano stuck with the seatpost mount of the battery and the need to run wires for the derailleurs gave higher battery capacity but that's actually not the case. Maybe SRAM patents prevent Shimano to fully copy there setup but in that case SRAM must have some very clever patent lawyers ...
Are you happy with the new gear ratio? In my region i drive a 12-25 cassette 11 speed, with 12 speed they offer just 11-30. So no 18er. Which i mainly use in flats. And three Gears i never use. 30, 27 and 11. Sounds like a downgrade to me. When i drive 24h@ Nürburging then i switch to 11 28. But i hate this Ratio on flat. I hope shimano give us some more ratios.
Looking fwd to part 2 as I’m likely to buy a new bike with this soon. Keen to know about the button programming - ie. can you program it like SRAM to have right button go down the cassette and left button up the cassette, with sync to do the front changes automatically? Will the hood buttons control a Wahoo Elemnt Bolt?
Hi #GPLama! Looking forward for Part 2! I'm really interested to see how to do firmware upgrade in wireless levers. Also - if you could elaborate on 12s chain - can I still use my old 10/11s chain wear measurement tool? Regards!
bettershifting.com/update-the-firmware-on-12-speed-hydraulic-shift-levers/ Checkout the link above. The easiest method would be to get a spare cable and junction and temporarily wire each front shifter to the front derailleur cable and complete the firmware upgrade. Other methods are also listed on the site above.
@@johnventevogel7415 Many thanks for sharing! This is soo much hassle 😞As it's just a brand new bike from Spec, I will just come back for warranty check (which is mandatory during first 2 months after the purchase) and ask for an update. I hope the next upgrades will be possible wirelessly. Cheers!
All good updating the RD, FD, and battery over Bluetooth. The levers are an interesting problem.... having to wire them in to update isn't exactly user friendly for any owner.
It's not simply two plastic press-fit cups. It screws together. The bearings seem to be of a higher quality too. I've had Shimano BBs become rough over time.
Not in a hurry to upgrade just yet but once supply comes back on board I'll look at upgrading. I'm quite happy to wait ev Even two years or whenever the rings are sufficiently worn out. The idea of less hardware is very attractive with the new groups. Have you considered testing the new Igpsport 620 Shane? It looks pretty featured.
@@gplama is inside one of the white paper bag. contain all the small spare parts inside and extra olives and all. I got mine from bikebug too on a Sale! I bet you did that too! Running them now and it feel AWESOME!
Awesome! Welcome to the club! Just a couple quick comments. I did find a TL-SD300 tucked under my RD-R9250. Did you check the box of your RD-R8150 carefully? I was told that the tool came with the levers but I didn't find it there. After re-checking all of the boxes I was relieved to find it under the RD-R9250. Also, I went from the SW-R600 to the SW-RS801-T. I've already done several rides on the SW-RS801-T but I still have a hard time getting my brain re-wired for the new shift buttons, lol. I still have another bike with the SW-R600. Hopefully over time I'll get used to both systems.
Why did you put the bigger rotor in the front? I know the braking power is higher in the front, but the size of the rotor is more linked to dissipating heat more quickly, no? I imagine you'll feather the back brakes more often than the front brakes, thus generating more heat in the back vs in the front. So I would've put the bigger one on the back wheel.
Hi. Have you considered/explored upgrading the handlebar and stem on this bike to an integrated carbon cockpit? I have the same bike and want to make that upgrade but I can't find a solution to the "ugly" round spacers and cone-shaped headset cap. No idea if our 2019 TCR can be retrofitted with aero spacers and cap. Any idea? Thank you.
Thanks Shane. I use a 11-42T XT 11 speed cassette with my R8000. Is there a similar option for the new 12 speed model? Even a 11-40T would be Ok. Did the XT mountain bike components get a 12 speed version which I can get?
Hey Shane, Great video as always... Any idea if the new Rear Derailleur will work with the previous 11 speed set-ups? Perceived wisdom is that it won't because of the cables... However, Shimano now do a cable adapter, the EW-AD305, which joins the new SD300 cables to the old SD50 ones... Any ideas? Thanks in advance!
brilliant. do the shifters have a separate battery then? I was going to buy a new tcr but settled on upgrading my 2018, new Giant SLR 0 42mm disc wheelset, and ultegra powerpro cranks. have to say Di2 is just a stunning piece of kit/tech, sure 12 would be better again.
@@gplama lever batteries, that's a bit of a weakness as we know the common issue is user error i.e. forgot to charge di2, now x 3, those batteries (2032)? in the levers, can you see the levels on the app? easy to access?
@@marcus_velo_9970 CR1632 batteries in the 8100/9200 levers. New head units should give low battery warnings. Although Hammerhead can't pair to it, so it can't. Shouldn't be too much of an issue. I've got two SRAM AXS bikes in the Lama Garage with wireless levers that have been no stress (yet).
@@gplama you know I purchased a wahoo after thinking well shimano can take away functionality on hammerhead maybe my powerpro could be next. anyway thanks for great reviews
Great video as always #GPLama I’m curious… You seemed to be able to get the Shimano Di2 components that you needed. I’m trying to get R8050GS cage but everyone I contact say it’s a Shimano nightmare at moment?
Hey Shane, good luck fitting it all together. I recently got a new bike with 12 speed Di2 and had some troubles setting up the gearing ratio on my Wahoo via the Elemnt app. Was wondering if this is a Wahoo issue with 12 speed Di2 being new/different to the old connections. Could pair it as a sensor though!
Interesting. This is one of the reasons I wanted to dive into the 12spd Di2. If I come across issues with the Wahoo/Elemnt pairing I'll raise it with them.
I’m about a year after you guys. I paired easily with a Roam computer and it asked me if I wanted the gear ratios. I said yes and they loaded without issue.
After a year of waiting for parts to trickle in, I built up my TCR with Ultegra 12sp Di2 this week. Can't get the stuff to pair up without the app. I don't use apps, so I'm probably going to strip it all off and go back to mechanical 11speed.
Yeah stripping it off and going back to mechanical rather than taking 5 minutes to set it up with the app is clearly the better option. Moreso after you've waited for the parts for a year.
@@gplama no its a home made device made from CZcams videos. i only use it on my friends bikes as I'm not exactly sure on the legality. but it renders their bikes useless. from a conspiracy standpoint you could make a point that all things will be electric soon so they can be remotely deactivated... imagine a subscription based electronic shifter LOL
Nice, I have R9200 and I ended wiring the shifters, cannot stand coin cells everywhere, specially when is absolutely not needed at all. Also, instant wake up :p The FC-R9200-P seems working correctly for me, only 70km ride for the moment but is giving me a balance of 52%/48% that is in line with the DZero I have on the gravel (51%/49%) so nothing similar with your initial testing on the leased unit, waiting for you analysis on the PM.
Hi. Tell me, please, can the 12-speed cassette be installed without problems on the hub where the 11-speed cassette was installed? When switching to a 12-speed transmission, do you need to change the crank or it possible to use 11-speed cranks? Thank you!
Nope! I'll sell it like it's hot....well...in demand. Not hot-hot. "No low-ballers... I know what I'm holding" kind of sale over on Aus Bike Parts on Facebook. 🤣
I use ST-R9150 with SW-R9160. According to Shimano compatibility chart, I can’t upgrade using ST-R9250/70 with SW-R9160. I don’t know if this is true, but that would be a big disadvantage in my case.
Hi, does it matter which port the wires from the derailleurs plug in to the battery? Does the rear have to be in the centre? i have two wires coming out the top of the bike ready to connect the battery in the seatpost too and i cant see which is coming from which derailleur. thanks
I take it that you don't need the full groupset at once when going from 11spd? E.g you can still use cranks and brakes and only initially need to upgrade the front/rear derailleur, cassette and levers.
I believe cranks are ok-ish and will work mixing 11 and 12 speed groups. iirc there's a 2mm q-factor increase with 12spd. According to Bettershifting.com (and Shimano doco) the new callipers can be used with with old shifters, but not the other way around.
@@gplama In another video I've heard the chainrings are 2mm closer to each other in regard to the narrower chain. So there may be problems downshifting with the 12-speed chain on an 11-speed crankset. I believe there were such problems in the pro-peloton last year when they had to mix groupsets due to limited availability.
Great stuff. Have a question. I have a rim brake bike with 11 speed mechanical 105 on. Do you think it would be possible to upgrade to a di2 ultegra group set (with rim brake levers). Maybe I got it all wrong but there is a wireless rimbrake version of the levers right?
No, the rim-brake levers are wired only. You can adapt any bike to Di2, although it's much better if you have a bike frame that has internal routing. This way the Di2 wires will be hidden inside the frame as opposed to the outside.
Before you make a jump from mechanical to Di2, please make sure you have internal cable routing - external routing would be bad. There is a mechanical BR/Shifter, basically the same shifters from the R8000 groupset with an adapter to bridge between the new small CANBUS wires of the R8100 to the older, larger ports used on the previous generation of Di2. These shifters are not wireless as again they are the R8000 shifters but you will get all the improvements of the new 12 speed and especially HyperGlide+ with them and support your rim brakes.
@@johnl2098 Thanks. I have internal cable routing. So what you are saying is that there are di2 levers for rim brakes. I more or less have mount the wires for the rim brakes?
Would'nt it be working with one shifter only too, just shift up all gear combinations in the lower front chainring gears and then switch to higher gear big chainring automatically switching down on the rear derailleur according to the next proper rear gear?
Hello, thanks for good info. Does new 12speed rear deraliuer comes with charging cable in the box, or you need to buy that stupid thing separetly? Thanks
Would like to know weight difference for the bike before and after, taking into account the different cable and junction box arrangements between the two groupsets. Unless this is easily found online somewhere?
@@gplama thanks Shame, but I'm still interested to know for a like for like set up what your bike weighed before and after. Just for a real life comparison. Might be too late if you didn't weigh first and you've done the swap already though....
@@gplama i use badger wax. He’s an Australian maker of wax and PTFE powder and mixes. I would recommend him in the future. I personally DIY it and found the cost benefits better than name brand. I have 4 imperial pounds of parafin white wax and the badger wax PTFE powder sized in the correct proportion for mixing in packets.
5 years ago I upgraded my 2011 Specialized Roubaix Elite from Shimano 105 10 speed to Ultegra Di2 11 speed. Needed new wheels because 10 speed hub wasn’t compatible. Works flawlessly. Here’s my (daft) question Shane, could Shimano produce a software upgrade to convert this 11 speed system to 12 speed or are there mechanical constraints on the RD?
As I understand, there's a few minor differences with the levers and derailleurs in regard to tooth capacity/etc. I'm sure they could make the older 11spd system '12 speed compatible' with restrictions on which cassettes would work..... but I don't expect that'll ever happen.
Wonder how you'll get on with it. Lot of FD issues (IMO removal of limit screw and minimal in-app adjustment is a shit show) and pretty endemic cassette issues (albeit worse on DA than UT) - probably due to sticking with HG instead of going with MS (which they will have done due to there being way more XDR wheelsets than MS --- something they can blame themselves for by restricting MS freehub licenses for so long).
@@gplama you still have to plug in right. Isn’t that a con vs the Bluetooth module? I assume it’s due to needing reliable power while the firmware is updating.
I've been waiting to upgrade from mechnical Ultegra to Di2 🤩 for months now after a crash last winter. I'd love to get the 11-36 with all the hills and mountains around here. But I also love to have the extra button in the hoods. Is there any word out there yet whether Di2 105 and Ultegra are compatible or if it's possible to run the 11-36 on Ultegra? These questions are still holding me off 😬
@@gplama Yeah, that's my dilemma. 😑 Just wondering whether its possible to make Ultegra work with a 36 or not. Looks to me like it was possible to go 2 teeth bigger than stated by Shimano with 11 speed. Guess I have to wait and keep looking out for others who try it. 😬
There's discussion of this somewhere I was reading... There's one combination that works with levers/callipers mixing new and old. I can't recall which way.
@@BetterShifting I've fitted new calipers to old Ultegra R8000 (non Di2 ST-R8020) shifters with zero issues. The new style calipers are so quick and easy to bleed, I'd always fit to bikes from now on as currently only a few £ more expensive in the UK. They come with the hex key disc pad retaining bolt not the stupidly soft flat head screwdriver bolt 👍
please, spend more times on gathering information before make a silly comment like this, Sram has tons of patents for wireless shifting (bluetooth) related etc. unless shimano spending tons of effort and cash to find another new radio-ish wave probably.... its not gonna happen ... not defending any brand here 🤷♂️
So here I am thinking… wow Shimano have finally nailed easy pairing and software upgrades and then we get hit with the wireless shifters need a wire to be updated wtf shimano
I use SRAM Centerline rotors with no issues (in fact I switched to them because the Shimanos ones still have the problem that they bend a little bit because of the breaking heat and I hate these grinding noises).
Hells yeah, 12spd Bros! Bringing out the popcorn once the Power crank arrives though 😅
My gravel bike will have a 12 speed buddy in the garage! Although it's a far superior wireless 1x setup. 😁
Most e-bikes have a power crank! 😉
@@gplama Superior! You have thrown chum in the water and are waiting for the feeding frenzy 🤐
I have THAT orange Giant. It's stunning 😍. I guess you cant help bad taste! The DI2 is amazing.
High-five orange buddy!
Orange TCR crew unite!
Me too mate. Ya good taste having mo fo.
Literally didn't buy it for the same reason as Llama, hideous colour.
You really knocked my ego with that “orange is hideous” comment. Been waiting for this bike all year and just took delivery…and I love it. Almost didn’t give you a thumbs up but I can’t quit you Lama. Looking forward to more Di2 content, great work as always!
THANK YOU VERY MUCH - just paired Ultegra derailleurs with 105 levers ....
G’day mate, from Kansas, USA (Oz‼️) These 2 vids have taken alot of mystery from the DA group assembly! T U for these xlent programs‼️👍‼️
I appreciate the honestly in not saying that this will improve the performance in the 'Why Upgradde?' section.
Bloody hard getting hold of it! I’ve just bought my group set today and will be doing the same upgrade shortly too on my Cannondale SupersixEvo Ultegra mechanical
i remember when you got your first di2. you was not 100% convinced if i remember correctly. look at you now. lol
Been waiting for your review before deciding between this or SRAM. Thanks for the good videos as always!
I looked at the same bike here in Singapore and I told the guy if it came in any other colour I would buy it. I even took my wife in to see it recently and she say ‘ooooff, what were they thinking?’
The black and plastic cable tool ships inside the RD-R8150 box no extra charge at least in Japan. The SD300 cables are super thin and can still be used to wire the shifters. That way no need to worry about replacement of the coin cell batteries. Also, seems like the satellite shifters require the fully wired configuration (won’t work over wireless). Good luck with the upgrade!
12 speed and upgrade obsessed. I don't blame you as I stay current on all latest tech as well but not always on my bike :) Great job as usual Shane, blazing the path for everyone. On a serious note I like what I see so far.
As much as nobody needs this....this is hobby job for him So for him to NOT do this would be a disservice to himself. You can see his happiness. :)
Crossed over 2500 miles on this groupset last week and love it. Just a couple of notes:
- Yes, the tool for the cables should be in with the RD.
- When doing the bench testing, to upgrade shifters, just unplug the FD and use that cable to plug in one shifter at a time to flash its firmware.
- Finding the charging cable connection to be a nuisance as with the bike upright it is a guess on alignment. 2500 miles on just 3 charges, can’t complain given the infrequency.
- First shift every day serves a the wake up signal so get used to just shifting once when you start your ride.
Yep, first shift wakes up the system - it goes back to sleep after 30 minutes of inactivity (no shifts).
I take it there's a new cable tool due to the connecting cables being different on the wireless groups?
@@kpizzle1985 Yeah, the plugs are a lot smaller.
@@BetterShifting typical, I've got loads of the older ones knocking about. Will have to rebuild my collection if I upgrade! 😂
Mine came with the cable tool. Didn't find until I bought a separate one though. It was hiding in a small paper sachet
Good to see that Shane has fun playing with the Di2.
Bad for me: I want to play too but I will wait for GRX 12 speed Di2.
Thanks Shane. No I have to save money 🤪
I was lucky enough to get the R8100 on a new bike which arrived mid-Dec 2021 (after waiting a few months, of course). It was worth the wait. You’re going to love it mate. Melbourne weather has been crap, but managed to get a 100km outdoors today and every time I shifted gears it felt like butter 🫠
Spent the day in Torquay with nice weather… and back to reality hitting Ballarat tonight. Argh! Nice work on the ton outside!
I changed over from etap 11sp and the shifting performance is a big improvement! Only gripe is charging from the RD, it’s a bit fiddly connecting the charger cable in the right orientation while holding the cover open without lying on the ground. Guess I was accustomed to just removing the battery and chucking it on the charger
Shifting with the 12 speed di2 ULTEGRA is a big improvement compared to the sram FORCE etap...it also looks sleeker and more modern. I always felt that the sram etap red crank was so augly and somewhat outdated with the silver.
I thought about doing this group set upgrade from mechanical Canyon Ultimate but right at the moment it’s so hard to get the 12 speed Di2 components through bikebug and Pushys in one go. I’m not surprised you needed patience to get it all together !! The wireless is what’s attractive not having to worry about the old Di2 cables on what it a mechanical frame so had a few wiring challenges.
Product alerts come in handy.
I’m watching this video (and my eBay watchlist) to upgrade my Ultimate also…looks awesome, can’t wait!
A couple more notes on the new R8100:
- Hyperglide+, this is a serious improvement as shifts on the rear cassette are great - even under load.
- Shifts on the front chainring will leave you looking at the crank to see if it actually shifted. - Other than weight, the shifting performance is the biggest difference between the new Ultegra R8100 and the new 105 Di2 as the 105, like the R8000, doesn’t have the new feed ramps
- If you bounce between bikes, one with the R8000, and the other bike the new R8100, you will absolutely know which is which.
Can't you use the new Ultegra cassette with 105 di2 to get the same shifting performance as new ultegra?
@@BharathRamh You would need to use the Ultegra or DA chain too. I don’t know if the RD has different timing or stepping movement though. The difference between R8000 and R8100 shifting is dramatic.
@@BharathRamh You might have to make a choice on the lowest cog too, 36 105 v 34 Ultegra/DuraAce. Sizing differences on front chain rings too - at least at launch.
Cool
I bloody love a good upgrade
My new 12spd bike is almost here! (I'll be running it wireless and electronic with my archer D1x, I'm kind of excited!
Keep me posted on how it goes!
Just ordered my new Shimano Ultegra Di2 12 Speed Groupset Shayne last week . Everything except the Cranks & ChainRings . I have gone 4 Rotor Carbon Cranks 172.5 mm & ×2 ChainRings . A 52/36 & 53/39 . Have also ordered sprinter switches . Will add a 50/34 down the track ( perhaps ) Rotor is lighter & the ease 2 which u can swap out chainrings is fabulous. Only downside 2 the Rotor Cranks is they are $$$$ than the Ultegra. Reason 4 not purchasing the Shimano Cranks , 2 reasons. Rotor is lighter & the main reason is Shimano have been having issues with there Cranks Breaking & deny there is a problem . Ordered 11/34 & 11/30 cassettes . 4 my 2 pairs of Roval Carbon Wheels. 32mm climbing wheels & 40mm Tubulars 4 Crits . Also yesterday ordered a Tacx Neo2T indoor trainer with the new plates that DC Rainmaker reviewed which gives u backwards/forwards motion.
I am upgrading from mechanical, so it will be a big stepup 4me on my Specialized Tarmac.
Upgrade complete 👌
Well... the hard work starts now. Pulling all the Di2 cabling out of the TCR! 🤣
I got the EW-SD300 tool with my levers.
You could use your FD wire for updating your shifter.
I guess you need a piece of wire to use as an extension? They won't reach each other otherwise.
Exciting day! Happy shifting :)
Many people are saying the 12spd is too narrow & harder to keep adjusted compared to 11spd. But nice to get rid of the wires:-)…
Its electronic - no problem.
"If it ain't broke, I'll fix it till it is". 😀
I just keep thinking...man, you'd not want to impact that derailleur!! I couldn't own a bike with this new system...I'd be too scared to ride the thing in case I laid it on its side...or worse, it just fell over at the local café in a stiff breeze 😳😳
Yolo! 🤣 The XX1 RD on my gravel bike is even more expensive… and it takes a beating.
I've upgraded 3 bikes so far. All of my RD's came with the cable tool, so I've got a spare if you need one. :P Also, I saw a comment on another channel that implied that you get 50% better battery life if you cable the shifters to the battery instead of running them wireless. I have a mechanical brake (rim brake) version of this groupset and those shifters are NOT wireless. i had to incorporate a 4 port junction to wire the shifters to the battery.
If the battery life claims turn out to be true, I may go ahead and run wires to all of my shifters..
I found the little plastic thingy in the bottom of my rubbish boxes! Have you had any issues with the '5th gear skipping' Jim? I'm hearing a few people with this.
What do you mean NOT A FAN OF ORANGE?!?!? 😅
I'll take your old DI2 when you get rid of it. Never had DI2, want to try it.
0:50 did you really have to call me out like that? 😅
Brilliant info thanks. When will part 2 come out? Love your work.
Soon! I just have to edit the video.
At @1:20 your background in corporate IT comes shinning through ;-)
Thanks
I like the orange
Am I the only one who always ends up having to buy shifters and brake calipers separately? The kits with shifter and caliper are always out of stock when I want them, so I end up having to bleed a completely empty system.
Anyway, can't wait to see the TCR get its update. 🙂
Great primer but one thing to mention -- for Dura-Ace anyway - I went to the trouble of buying the EW-SD300 tool and found one was included with my rear derailleur. Nice of Shimano to include this with an $800 part, isn't it? lol.
3500 what a bargain. Cheap as chips. The working mans groupset👌
🤣
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FYI, the part number for the Di2 tool is TL-EW300. You had it listed wrong on your list of parts. I will be looking forward to your test of the Dura Ace PM!
haha, glad I'm not the only one to notice that :)
Oops! Thanks for the pickup!
@@gplama TL = Tool, EW = Electric Wire, and SD is Super Duper.
(One of these is made up 🤣)
If you have a 3D printer, you may just have a look on thingyverse and print it for free 😉
It so fun to see your glittering eyes😂 i know that feeling!
I got the full groupset in the UK in February, cost me £2500 fitted though.
I can't believe the price level of the battery ! A 7,4 V (2 cells) 500 mAh battery for the same price I pay for two 10,8V (12V) 6Ah batteries and a charger from Bosch Prof... if this is indicative of the Shimano margin on the Di2 system I'm very sorry I don't have a lot of Shimano stock ! The SRAM eTap battery is slightly lower capacity (7,4V 300mAh) and at less than half the price. You need two of them so you will end up with higher total battery capacity on a 2X setup but you probably shift the rear a lot more than the front so you would need to "cycle" the batteries to take advantage of that. I was under the impression that the reason Shimano stuck with the seatpost mount of the battery and the need to run wires for the derailleurs gave higher battery capacity but that's actually not the case. Maybe SRAM patents prevent Shimano to fully copy there setup but in that case SRAM must have some very clever patent lawyers ...
Price of the full groupset is a joke.
Are you happy with the new gear ratio? In my region i drive a 12-25 cassette 11 speed, with 12 speed they offer just 11-30. So no 18er. Which i mainly use in flats. And three Gears i never use. 30, 27 and 11. Sounds like a downgrade to me. When i drive 24h@ Nürburging then i switch to 11 28. But i hate this Ratio on flat. I hope shimano give us some more ratios.
You will use chainrings 54/40 and casette 11/28 :)
Looking fwd to part 2 as I’m likely to buy a new bike with this soon. Keen to know about the button programming - ie. can you program it like SRAM to have right button go down the cassette and left button up the cassette, with sync to do the front changes automatically? Will the hood buttons control a Wahoo Elemnt Bolt?
Yes yes and yes
Hey I've got the hideous orange bike love it 😜😜😜
heheh :) I would have had it too if there was stock! :)
Rim brake version is wired only!
Hi #GPLama! Looking forward for Part 2! I'm really interested to see how to do firmware upgrade in wireless levers. Also - if you could elaborate on 12s chain - can I still use my old 10/11s chain wear measurement tool? Regards!
bettershifting.com/update-the-firmware-on-12-speed-hydraulic-shift-levers/
Checkout the link above. The easiest method would be to get a spare cable and junction and temporarily wire each front shifter to the front derailleur cable and complete the firmware upgrade. Other methods are also listed on the site above.
@@johnventevogel7415 Many thanks for sharing! This is soo much hassle 😞As it's just a brand new bike from Spec, I will just come back for warranty check (which is mandatory during first 2 months after the purchase) and ask for an update. I hope the next upgrades will be possible wirelessly. Cheers!
Hopefully wireless upgrade goes better than over the 11 speed (EW-WU111). I’ve bricked my bike a few times.
All good updating the RD, FD, and battery over Bluetooth. The levers are an interesting problem.... having to wire them in to update isn't exactly user friendly for any owner.
@@gplama future updates should be fully wireless, Shimano tell me 😅
But will the update to make them update wirelessly require a cable for that update? 🤔🤣
😇
shimano is the mcfish of drivetrains
Did I get that right, that Shimano made wireless shifters that can't be firmware-upgraded without wiring them in? That's simply brilliant if so...
Nice group set! I think Shimano is not fully wireless because the design of the 2 battery’s would be like Sram
I believe you could have unplugged the front derailler and connected the lead to the lever to update
Ahhhh.. Yes. That'd work. But I woke up and chose PAIN.... and got the PC Link. 🤣
He is an IT guy at heart!! He has to do it the most complicated way!! 😀
May I ask- what about that BB do you like better than Shimano’s? Thanks
It's not simply two plastic press-fit cups. It screws together. The bearings seem to be of a higher quality too. I've had Shimano BBs become rough over time.
Looks great but I'd except nothing less than a wireless chain and FSD before I pay that much.
Wireless chain! I like your thinking. 😄👌🏼
Hey Shane. How much for your old group set?
👍👍👍🙏🙏🇦🇹🇦🇹✌️
Not in a hurry to upgrade just yet but once supply comes back on board I'll look at upgrading. I'm quite happy to wait ev
Even two years or whenever the rings are sufficiently worn out. The idea of less hardware is very attractive with the new groups.
Have you considered testing the new Igpsport 620 Shane? It looks pretty featured.
the cable tool is included inside when you purchase wither the FD or RD.
"I'd like to speak to the manager!" - Nothing in the FD box... I'll check RD box tomorrow.
@@gplama is inside one of the white paper bag. contain all the small spare parts inside and extra olives and all. I got mine from bikebug too on a Sale! I bet you did that too! Running them now and it feel AWESOME!
Awesome! Welcome to the club! Just a couple quick comments. I did find a TL-SD300 tucked under my RD-R9250. Did you check the box of your RD-R8150 carefully? I was told that the tool came with the levers but I didn't find it there. After re-checking all of the boxes I was relieved to find it under the RD-R9250. Also, I went from the SW-R600 to the SW-RS801-T. I've already done several rides on the SW-RS801-T but I still have a hard time getting my brain re-wired for the new shift buttons, lol. I still have another bike with the SW-R600. Hopefully over time I'll get used to both systems.
Found it! The little plastic sucker was at the bottom of the boxes!
Hi do I have any info about the ultegars 12 speed di2 shifters working with the 105di2 rd and fd
Why did you put the bigger rotor in the front? I know the braking power is higher in the front, but the size of the rotor is more linked to dissipating heat more quickly, no? I imagine you'll feather the back brakes more often than the front brakes, thus generating more heat in the back vs in the front. So I would've put the bigger one on the back wheel.
Hi. Have you considered/explored upgrading the handlebar and stem on this bike to an integrated carbon cockpit? I have the same bike and want to make that upgrade but I can't find a solution to the "ugly" round spacers and cone-shaped headset cap. No idea if our 2019 TCR can be retrofitted with aero spacers and cap. Any idea? Thank you.
Not something I've looked into for this bike.
Thanks Shane. I use a 11-42T XT 11 speed cassette with my R8000. Is there a similar option for the new 12 speed model? Even a 11-40T would be Ok. Did the XT mountain bike components get a 12 speed version which I can get?
I'm not across the Shimano off-road stuff..... yet... Ask me anything about SRAM though! :)
The new Deore XT Di2 12-speed stuff that was announced recently is e-bike only (for now), unfortunately.
XT mountain bike components are 12 speed since 2020. czcams.com/video/tmOK-uWviJ0/video.html
Hey Shane,
Great video as always...
Any idea if the new Rear Derailleur will work with the previous 11 speed set-ups?
Perceived wisdom is that it won't because of the cables...
However, Shimano now do a cable adapter, the EW-AD305, which joins the new SD300 cables to the old SD50 ones...
Any ideas? Thanks in advance!
No, I don't believe so. Even if the cables were to connect (with an adapter), I believe Shimano block out mixing 11/12 speed components in firmware.
brilliant. do the shifters have a separate battery then? I was going to buy a new tcr but settled on upgrading my 2018, new Giant SLR 0 42mm disc wheelset, and ultegra powerpro cranks. have to say Di2 is just a stunning piece of kit/tech, sure 12 would be better again.
Yes, each lever has a battery now.
@@gplama lever batteries, that's a bit of a weakness as we know the common issue is user error i.e. forgot to charge di2, now x 3, those batteries (2032)? in the levers, can you see the levels on the app? easy to access?
@@marcus_velo_9970 CR1632 batteries in the 8100/9200 levers. New head units should give low battery warnings. Although Hammerhead can't pair to it, so it can't. Shouldn't be too much of an issue. I've got two SRAM AXS bikes in the Lama Garage with wireless levers that have been no stress (yet).
@@gplama you know I purchased a wahoo after thinking well shimano can take away functionality on hammerhead maybe my powerpro could be next. anyway thanks for great reviews
Great video as always #GPLama
I’m curious… You seemed to be able to get the Shimano Di2 components that you needed. I’m trying to get R8050GS cage but everyone I contact say it’s a Shimano nightmare at moment?
It took me a few months. Australian stores had a solid restock of the new Di2 a few weeks back.
Hey Shane, good luck fitting it all together. I recently got a new bike with 12 speed Di2 and had some troubles setting up the gearing ratio on my Wahoo via the Elemnt app. Was wondering if this is a Wahoo issue with 12 speed Di2 being new/different to the old connections. Could pair it as a sensor though!
Interesting. This is one of the reasons I wanted to dive into the 12spd Di2. If I come across issues with the Wahoo/Elemnt pairing I'll raise it with them.
@@gplama am able to set gear ratio’s now. Not sure if there has been an update
I’m about a year after you guys. I paired easily with a Roam computer and it asked me if I wanted the gear ratios. I said yes and they loaded without issue.
After a year of waiting for parts to trickle in, I built up my TCR with Ultegra 12sp Di2 this week. Can't get the stuff to pair up without the app. I don't use apps, so I'm probably going to strip it all off and go back to mechanical 11speed.
Yeah stripping it off and going back to mechanical rather than taking 5 minutes to set it up with the app is clearly the better option. Moreso after you've waited for the parts for a year.
Has there been any conversation around electronic jamming? I have a small jammer than I use to disable these systems on road. Old cable wins again.
Is your jammer a product that can be easily purchased?
@@gplama no its a home made device made from CZcams videos. i only use it on my friends bikes as I'm not exactly sure on the legality. but it renders their bikes useless. from a conspiracy standpoint you could make a point that all things will be electric soon so they can be remotely deactivated... imagine a subscription based electronic shifter LOL
Technically the new SRAM wireless blips with non rechargeable or replaceable batteries are almost a subscription based product. 😂
@@gplama
Nice, I have R9200 and I ended wiring the shifters, cannot stand coin cells everywhere, specially when is absolutely not needed at all. Also, instant wake up :p The FC-R9200-P seems working correctly for me, only 70km ride for the moment but is giving me a balance of 52%/48% that is in line with the DZero I have on the gravel (51%/49%) so nothing similar with your initial testing on the leased unit, waiting for you analysis on the PM.
The cost of this stuff is ridiculama
Agreed. Hopefully selling my 11spd will offset the pain here.
Hi. Tell me, please, can the 12-speed cassette be installed without problems on the hub where the 11-speed cassette was installed? When switching to a 12-speed transmission, do you need to change the crank or it possible to use 11-speed cranks? Thank you!
1. Yes.
2. Yes, but ideally it’s best to use a 12spd crank due to the slightly different chainline.
@@gplama Thank you!
Hi Shane how do you get the gear usage to show in the E tube app? Mine says 0% for every gear
That’s a good question. I noted the other day mine showed the same. One for Shimano support for now.
I bet you keep the R8000 and build a 'spare' bike, n+1 n'all. 😀
Nope! I'll sell it like it's hot....well...in demand. Not hot-hot. "No low-ballers... I know what I'm holding" kind of sale over on Aus Bike Parts on Facebook. 🤣
@@gplama Not a bad idea. Very impressed with the lack of cables in this iteration. Already have the popcorn ready for the powermeter testing. 😉
Evergreen was on its way to Europe.
Question: can I use an ultegra CN-M8100 12 speed chain with 2024 Shimano 105 Di2 12 speed cassette ?
That should work. Shimano have detailed compatibility charts on their support site that should confirm.
I use ST-R9150 with SW-R9160. According to Shimano compatibility chart, I can’t upgrade using ST-R9250/70 with SW-R9160.
I don’t know if this is true, but that would be a big disadvantage in my case.
Hi, does it matter which port the wires from the derailleurs plug in to the battery? Does the rear have to be in the centre? i have two wires coming out the top of the bike ready to connect the battery in the seatpost too and i cant see which is coming from which derailleur. thanks
I take it that you don't need the full groupset at once when going from 11spd? E.g you can still use cranks and brakes and only initially need to upgrade the front/rear derailleur, cassette and levers.
I believe cranks are ok-ish and will work mixing 11 and 12 speed groups. iirc there's a 2mm q-factor increase with 12spd. According to Bettershifting.com (and Shimano doco) the new callipers can be used with with old shifters, but not the other way around.
@@gplama In another video I've heard the chainrings are 2mm closer to each other in regard to the narrower chain. So there may be problems downshifting with the 12-speed chain on an 11-speed crankset. I believe there were such problems in the pro-peloton last year when they had to mix groupsets due to limited availability.
Great stuff. Have a question. I have a rim brake bike with 11 speed mechanical 105 on. Do you think it would be possible to upgrade to a di2 ultegra group set (with rim brake levers). Maybe I got it all wrong but there is a wireless rimbrake version of the levers right?
No, the rim-brake levers are wired only. You can adapt any bike to Di2, although it's much better if you have a bike frame that has internal routing. This way the Di2 wires will be hidden inside the frame as opposed to the outside.
Before you make a jump from mechanical to Di2, please make sure you have internal cable routing - external routing would be bad. There is a mechanical BR/Shifter, basically the same shifters from the R8000 groupset with an adapter to bridge between the new small CANBUS wires of the R8100 to the older, larger ports used on the previous generation of Di2. These shifters are not wireless as again they are the R8000 shifters but you will get all the improvements of the new 12 speed and especially HyperGlide+ with them and support your rim brakes.
@@johnl2098 Thanks. I have internal cable routing. So what you are saying is that there are di2 levers for rim brakes. I more or less have mount the wires for the rim brakes?
Would'nt it be working with one shifter only too, just shift up all gear combinations in the lower front chainring gears and then switch to higher gear big chainring automatically switching down on the rear derailleur according to the next proper rear gear?
Does Shimano FC-R8000 compatible with 12sp chain CN-M8100?
Shimano publish compatibility charts for these questions.
Shane can shifters be set for 11 speed?
No. 12 speed shifters are 12 speed only.
Hello, thanks for good info. Does new 12speed rear deraliuer comes with charging cable in the box, or you need to buy that stupid thing separetly? Thanks
Yes
@@gplama Thank you so much for reply. Is that yes for charging cable comes in box or do i need to buy it separetly? 😂 Thanks again
@@martinkroutil One is in the box. 👌🏼
@@gplama Amazing, thank you so much.
Hi Shane, why did you order the cable tool? Isn’t that included in the packaging of the rear derailleur?
I only found it much later... just as I was about to throw out the box. Always handy to have a spare (I always lose them).
@@gplama Yes, was the same for me. I had to plug it in with my fingers which was not the best experience :(
Would like to know weight difference for the bike before and after, taking into account the different cable and junction box arrangements between the two groupsets. Unless this is easily found online somewhere?
There’s a ton of weight listings of the 8100 group published at launch.
@@gplama thanks Shame, but I'm still interested to know for a like for like set up what your bike weighed before and after. Just for a real life comparison. Might be too late if you didn't weigh first and you've done the swap already though....
Do you plan on a DIY set up using your local PTFE wax supplier: BADGER Wax? Or is it from Silca or another big name brand?
Silca Hot Melt.
@@gplama i use badger wax. He’s an Australian maker of wax and PTFE powder and mixes. I would recommend him in the future.
I personally DIY it and found the cost benefits better than name brand. I have 4 imperial pounds of parafin white wax and the badger wax PTFE powder sized in the correct proportion for mixing in packets.
5 years ago I upgraded my 2011 Specialized Roubaix Elite from Shimano 105 10 speed to Ultegra Di2 11 speed. Needed new wheels because 10 speed hub wasn’t compatible. Works flawlessly.
Here’s my (daft) question Shane, could Shimano produce a software upgrade to convert this 11 speed system to 12 speed or are there mechanical constraints on the RD?
As I understand, there's a few minor differences with the levers and derailleurs in regard to tooth capacity/etc. I'm sure they could make the older 11spd system '12 speed compatible' with restrictions on which cassettes would work..... but I don't expect that'll ever happen.
@@gplama Yeah. Not good for Shimano business to upgrade old products I suppose.
Wonder how you'll get on with it. Lot of FD issues (IMO removal of limit screw and minimal in-app adjustment is a shit show) and pretty endemic cassette issues (albeit worse on DA than UT) - probably due to sticking with HG instead of going with MS (which they will have done due to there being way more XDR wheelsets than MS --- something they can blame themselves for by restricting MS freehub licenses for so long).
So if you have a lever firmware update in the future, does that mean you need to unwrap your bars to hook up a cable for the update?
I should be able to get to the E-Tube port without having to unwrap the bars.
@@gplama you still have to plug in right. Isn’t that a con vs the Bluetooth module? I assume it’s due to needing reliable power while the firmware is updating.
can you use existing brake hoses with the new levers and calipers?
Yes, you can.
I've been waiting to upgrade from mechnical Ultegra to Di2 🤩 for months now after a crash last winter. I'd love to get the 11-36 with all the hills and mountains around here. But I also love to have the extra button in the hoods. Is there any word out there yet whether Di2 105 and Ultegra are compatible or if it's possible to run the 11-36 on Ultegra? These questions are still holding me off 😬
Ultegra 8100 series RD has a max capacity of a 34t on the rear, as I understand. 105 Di2 supports up to a 36t.
@@gplama Yeah, that's my dilemma. 😑 Just wondering whether its possible to make Ultegra work with a 36 or not. Looks to me like it was possible to go 2 teeth bigger than stated by Shimano with 11 speed. Guess I have to wait and keep looking out for others who try it. 😬
@@rainbowlable If I come across a 11-36t in the near future I'll give it a shot.
Is it possible to use the new shifters and gears with the old brake calipers? I only ever see the shifters paired with the new calipers for sale
There's discussion of this somewhere I was reading... There's one combination that works with levers/callipers mixing new and old. I can't recall which way.
@@gplama thanks for the info, will look into that some more :D
You can use the new calipers with old shifters, but not the other way around… (perhaps because the new shifters have servo wave (except 105))
(According to Shimano compatibility info - note that it may still actual work, even if compatibility charts don’t agree)
@@BetterShifting I've fitted new calipers to old Ultegra R8000 (non Di2 ST-R8020) shifters with zero issues. The new style calipers are so quick and easy to bleed, I'd always fit to bikes from now on as currently only a few £ more expensive in the UK. They come with the hex key disc pad retaining bolt not the stupidly soft flat head screwdriver bolt 👍
does the battery come with a terminator for the spare port or do you need to buy one if so where would you get one from
Comes with.
No more shimano for me #freehammerhead .I am so glad I made the switch...
It’s simple. But still not as simple as SRAM AXS systems. So many years in development and they couldn’t make it fully wireless.
please, spend more times on gathering information before make a silly comment like this, Sram has tons of patents for wireless shifting (bluetooth) related etc. unless shimano spending tons of effort and cash to find another new radio-ish wave probably.... its not gonna happen ... not defending any brand here 🤷♂️
So here I am thinking… wow Shimano have finally nailed easy pairing and software upgrades and then we get hit with the wireless shifters need a wire to be updated wtf shimano
Will you be showing how to wire it in the next video?
Nothing more to show than what's on screen here. The hydro brake hoses are the next frontier.
@@gplama the hydraulic brakes can be fun lol enjoy
Hey Lama, could you have kept the old rotors and callipers??
Rotors, highly likely. Callipers I'm not so sure on.
@@gplama Currently running rotors only and crank from R8000 on R8100, no issues.
I use SRAM Centerline rotors with no issues (in fact I switched to them because the Shimanos ones still have the problem that they bend a little bit because of the breaking heat and I hate these grinding noises).