The Pythagorean Siphon Inside Your Washing Machine
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- čas přidán 9. 09. 2020
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There's a greedy cup siphon in your washing machine fabric softener try. Also called a Pythagorean cup. It's also used in urinals and novelty drinking receptacles. It's an example of a fluid dynamic mechanism.
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This is the first time I've filmed from my toilet! The audio isn't great for that section but I felt the context was important!
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My toilet here in USA doesn't use this method. It's a hole where your plastic siphoned is hooked up with a rubber flapper over the hole and the push of the flush lever lifts the rubber flapper draining the tank into the bowl
I have to say, i really enjoy every video you make.
I can see how much effort you put into each one of them 👌
Keep up the good work man ✌️😁
You can make a green screen, and film yourself in front of it, and then get a picture of a toilet, and then put some bathroom reverb or early reflections over your voice in post.. but I think this also did the trick. Sometimes bad audio is fine, when the circumstances are right.
I think the greedy cup for the toilet is specifically referencing the *bowl* not the tank. That behavior is indeed a greedy cup, even if it has a fancy high flow exit to remove, uh, *debris*.
The bowl sits at a fixed water level until more water is added. Then the bowl fills to a certain point and starts draining (the rapidity of this draining is mostly due to the water being added, but that is immaterial to the point). Once the water stops, the bowl continues draining to well below the starting level until the siphon is broken. The bowl is then refiled to the starting point very slowly from a small overflow as the tank refills.
I can probably find example videos if you are interested.
I don't know how our flush mechanism works yet, but it's a in wall type with a big push lever button and if you let go it stops.
There's something like this in my bank account
😂😂😂
🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
Yeah they call that "rent"
Funny
This comment deserves more likes.
The greedy cup teaches the invaluable lesson that one should always drink from the bottle.
not greedy enough, some water always stays on the bottom of the tray....but isn't this a good explanation on why exactly it's not perfect!
czcams.com/video/4G6e4TaJxkI/video.html 0:23!
@@ivok9846 It's called the "Greedy Cup" because according to Greek historians, it was invented as a prank for people who were "greedy" and took more wine than socially acceptable in social events.
For me the lesson is - bring your own cup to parties. Especially in ancient Greece.
@@wyattsperry4584 I can't imagine being in a party and trying to explain that I simply poured too much wine and haven't yet missed the bowl.
When you said "you must be thinking this is how toilets work" I imagined the bowl half, where once water goes above the u-bend in the pipe it siphons all the water out of the toilet bowl.
This is only the case in North America, or so I’ve heard.
me too! I'm pretty sure I've seen "P traps" in toilets and sink drains - at least in spain, mexico and ireland. A much simpler siphon which follows the same principles, otherwise you would smell sewer gas from all your drains! - also why you need to pour water in unused drains if you have a spare bathroom, etc once or twice a year in dry climates or you can get some backdrafts and even nasty mold growth
Yeah that’s what I was thinking too, once I was on a trip and the cabin we were staying didnt have water or something? So there was a toilet we just had to flush it manually by pouring a whole gallon of water (that we had brought) in
@@seanobrien9849 funny thing about that - P traps are specifically designed to not siphon. S traps do siphon, and they would siphon out the water that seals the trap sometimes and let sewer gas back in, hence why they have been banned in the US (at least in my state)
@@jaypawhealer Interesting! Apparently I should have said S trap specifically for toilets, which don't have problems with siphoning out the trap - I think due to larger diameter and larger vertical displacement than a drain S-trap to prevent siphon locking - although if you dump a bucket of water in fast enough, you can usually get it pretty close to empty!
As a plumber, I still think the best flush is simply the 'flapper valve' by Fluidmaster. It uses a float in the flap. Upon pulling it upward, it empties the cistern until the water is gone, then falls back down to seal. It's simple and thus reliable.
That's the only kind I've seen, other than commercial toilets
The best is the siphon. With a flapper valve, if the valve is defective (say does not seat properly) water can constantly drain out into the bowl causing lots of waste water. Siphons cannot do that.
If a flapper becomes defective when you go on holiday, expect a massive water bill. If you have a flapper, turn off you water when leaving the house empty for a while.
Flappers, until pretty recently, were banned in the UK.
@@johnburns4017
I'm a plumber here in England. I've never seen a flapper version pass water, and people should always turn their water off when away for even a day. Siphons are too troublesome. I've even seen one fallen to pieces, and the diaphragms can be so weak as to only last a thousand flushes. I also have no idea what you mean by banned in the UK "until recently". I began installing them over 20 years ago when I got fed up being called back to non-flushing syphons. They are very simple, and in plumbing, simple is always best. Together with a Torbeck float fill valve for the inlet, I've had many satisfied customers.
@@barryfoster453
You must be very young not to have seen a flapper stick.
@@johnburns4017
I'm 63, John. I have fitted more toilets than you have eaten chips.
Claim your "I got recommended by youtube algorithm" ticket here
Can I have 2 🥺
Tickets please
trutru
bro thats like every fkin vid unless your friend or professor recommends a vid
Got recommended a lot this month (tho I didn't watch it) but I've watched his past videos quite some time ago though I went here directly from his channel which I came across from SmarterEveryDay.
But it still appeared on my recommendations regardless so yeah, give me a ticket
I have never seen that type of mechanism in a toilet. The toilets I've had in the US have a rubber plug in the bottom of the tank. But those weren't dual flush mechanisms either. BTW, I love your 2d mock-ups to help explain the principle.
Yeah, basically every domestic toilet I've seen in the US just has a flap in the bottom of the tank. The flap is lifted by a chain, which is attached to the end of a lever, with the flush handle forming the other side of the lever.
Thinking the same - only rubber flappers here and good job on the mock-up!
Yes, United States here and I've really only seen flapper valves. But I think they're kind of old school.
The flapper valve is buoyant, so when lifted into the water column it floats up until the water in the cistern is almost empty. Then it seats and the water pressure from water on top of the valve is greater than the air pressure from below so it doesn't float again until you lift it with the flush lever again. It's an interesting alternate engineering solution to the UK siphon demonstrated.
its in the US, kohler low water use toilets have them
As a plumber in America with 10 years, I've never run into one of these siphon style flush mechanism. We use flapper style and the rare occasion you'll see a pressurized flush mechanism
I ran across the siphon and immediately bought a toilet rebuild kit that had a flapper.
Now I'm kind of curious as to how well said Syphon style would work for my divided states toilet. Now I'll be on the hunt for one that fits my throne.
I've never seen it in the USA either
Not a plumber but I've installed and fixed many a toilet in my life and yeah always had a flapper valve. Some fluidmaster, some from other makers, but never seen this siphon method before. It's curious for sure but the flapper does seem more reliable, also a very cheap fix if/when the rubber dries out or gets ripped because you're a curious kid trying to learn how toilets work. Like me.
I'd never heard of these siphon type flushers until I saw them in videos. they seem to be more standard in europe for some reason. not sure why, they seem needlessly complicated.
Older American toilets didn't have that mechanism, the flush handle simply pulled a plug at the bottom to release the water into the bowl, this plug floats after you pull it and once the water level reaches the bottom the plug falls back into place stopping the water flow and letting the back of the toilet fill again. Oh also, if you are wondering why the plug doesn't always float and release water, it's because the waters weight is enough to hold it down until you flush.
A lot of toilets in ex-USSR countries work the same way you described, my mom still owns one of exactly this kind.
I just installed a relatively cheap one where it doesn't even float, the plug drops into place as soon as you release the lever. It's just designed so the water flows so fast, the fastest possible pull still releases about 2/3 of the water.
Not just older ones. Many newer ones here do, too
Normal solution in Norway too.
Awesome video and demo ;) The colored water and backlight look very cool. Never seen a toilet mechanism like that.
Thanks! A number of commenters pointed me in the direction of your video featuring the same siphon. Really Great video!
I'd like to see a demonstration of how flapper toilets operate. I'm pretty sure I have a decent understanding, but I would enjoy a classic Practical Engineering prop demonstration.
@@HaLo2FrEeEk It is simply a floating valve cover, held closed by water pressure until you pull it.
@@HaLo2FrEeEk held closed by water pressure, but when lifted it has a little pocket that holds a bubble of air and holds it up until the tank is drained.
@@darkfur18 It would be very interesting to see one of Grady's plexi demonstration builds. I've always sorta had an intuitive understanding of how the system works, just by thinking about the shapes of the plumbing, but I've never gone so far as to look it up. I'm already subbed to Practical Engineering so I would see a video by him and get to see a beautiful demo with that classic blue water :)
"Lets do the toilet"
Ah. Isolation gets to all of us eventually.
urin-al ?
Is it a new Dance craze? LOL.
lol perfect
That toilet be lookin' dummy thicc though....
This is comedic gold lol
Here in South Carolina our toilets have a fill column with float attached to fill valve, then flush lever pulls up rubber stopper in bottom of tank to drain into bowl. The drain stopper is hollow so it floats about 5 seconds to give plenty of flush water before falling back down into drain opening to repeat cycle.
Same in Australia
I love these fluid models, and I feel like this is one of the OG videos on them, thanks for sharing!!
I am litteraly learning more watching this at 3 am than in school
Jajqja
Juan Serrano facts
Stop goofing around and maybe you will learn something
LOL
Same
I can’t believe that:
1) I watched an entire video about how toilets flush
2) That the youtube algorithm knew it was something I would watch all the way through
What is this world we’re living in?
#TheSocialDilemma .. You'll find your answers in that movie
Peter 24 I’ve actually watched that yesterday and It was pretty informative to say the least.
@@the_real_mcgarvyer9Cool . I also read your comment in a rush , now that you confirmed it and i re-read your reply more slowly i noticed you implied the reference .
the social dilemma is a must see
Peers based recommendation policy. CZcams recommends videos that other users who tend to watch the same videos as you do, also watched.
How odd, my toilet does the exact opposite. If I hold down the lever, I get a full flush, and if I let go as you usually would, I get half a flush. Didn't know this in 22 years of owning this toilet!
That's because your toilet is what's called a flapper valve. It's a much more simple method that uses a 'float' to determine how much water is in the tank. When the float raises a certain amount the tank stops filling. When you use the lever it opens the valve at the bottom of the tank, so you can control how long it allows water to flow through the system. When you release the lever the valve automatically closes, and the float then works to ensure the tank fills up with water properly. It's the method I prefer, as it's very simple and easy to fix yourself if any parts need replacing ^^
Cool! I used those on my aquaponics setup many years ago. It is straightforward to make from some PVC piping. When I got it to work, it felt like magic. Really cool system.
It's good to see Steve pouring things out of beakers again. Classic Steve Mould.
"Heres a glass so you can see whats happening inside" proceeds to pour in a completely opaque liquid.... oh steve so close lol
Oops!
Steve Mould live and learn
I can't imagine it looking much different with a perfectly transparent liquid. There's really nothing to see outside of the exterior water level, until it starts to drain, and then you can compare it with the internal level (works perfectly fine with a darker liquid).
Tristan Wilson Ikr. If it was clear liquid, it would be more difficult to see. I don’t see why using an opaque liquid is even a problem
@@jundaaaaaaaaaa Well my comment was only a light jest with Steve but there are options between completely clear and completely opaque it isnt a binary choice.
Fantastic collection of all these early Greek ‘technologies’ in the Technology museum in Heraklion. Went the other day and I remembered many of the pneumatic ‘gadgets’ from your videos.
And yet another video to a subject I never realized I wanted an answer to. Thanks for uploading!
I feel like this is one of these videos where Steve was doing some housework, and his wife walked in on him hours later sitting on the laundry floor staring intently at the fabric softener tray
Not only did she find sitting and staring where she expected working. She also discovered the laundry room strewn with camera equipment, props, materials, and coloured liquid spills staining the floor.
Omg this is so me and I couldn't stop laughing at this comment
@@magiklok The moment when you come across something and your mind says "how does this work?" and you cannot rest until you know just HOW it works.
czcams.com/video/4G6e4TaJxkI/video.html 0:23!
Ah yes the taint of curiosity which fills our minds with the desire to learn. Good thing we're not cats!
"Your washing machine does this." No, I'm afraid my washing machine demands that I dump my washing chemicals into the tub manually.
I haven't seen one of those since the '90s.
Maybe you gotta pedal for the last part too?
You mean the ones that's vertical? Those things can fit a lot of clothes.
Mine too. It's over two (maybe three) decades old and still runs like new. I'd like to get a newer HE style, but an appliance repairman told me that the newer machines just don't last like the old ones. They are built in such a way that they can't be repaired, so when something goes wrong, you just have to throw them away.
Me , an Indian : Wait you guys are getting a washing machine ?
Thank you so much for this informative video sir. The 2D mechanism really helped me to understand the process.
1st I ever heard or ever thought of calling them "Your-eye-knowles" ..Love it!
If you've never done this before, you're not a real washing machine.
Well you're right
Shoot, i tough i was
I used to be a attack helicopter until I watched this...
Way to crush my dreams man.
Top loaders feeling left out
Sorry Steve, but for me the most important bit of this video was discovering (one some washing machines) I could remove the tray! That thing's a complete bugger to clean and I've been doing it wrong all this time.
😂 I love discovering that kind of trivial things that people assume everybody knows about, yet you've been doing it the hard-way because we're retar... unique :)
I knew about the removable tray on washing washing machines, but a thing I recently discovered is those carrot/potato peelers... you can use them in both direction
Literally from this video (in another compilation)
czcams.com/video/nUwFHv0dQz0/video.html
Always read the instructions. Plus, secrets are learnt by carefully looking and taking things apart. XD
@@TechyBen the trick is putting it back together in one piece, or at least not breaking it while taking it apart and realizing there's a big "push" button to open it :)
Don't feel bad. When I was 9, my dad convinced me that the cowlick in my hair was caused by an actual cow; that I had come to close to a fence, and a cow licked my head. So for years I thought cows had the magical ability to influence how your hair grows.
@@ReadTheShrill HA !! I thought I was the only one who was told this when I was little ! LOL
I didn´t know about this channel but this guy just makes it so easy. Great job.
Brilliant. Because it’s simplicity and it’s useful and it works; the perfect design
The video in which we learn that toilet siphons are like public schools: Brits and Americans are talking about completely different things.
Wait what does Public School mean in the UK?
@@Jesse__H Public schools are ultra posh private schools, where you sent your children if you want them to become prime minister. There are only 9 currently recognised; Eton, Harrow, Charterhouse, Cheltenham, Rugby, Clifton, Westminster, Marlborough, Haileybury, and Winchester.
@@luelou8464 So, pretty much the same. Both mostly produce imbeciles.
@@luelou8464 not quite. Those are the clarendon schools, which, as you say are extremely expensive and generally produce the 'ruling class'. They are all public schools, but not the ONLY public schools.
A public school is any school that is not funded by the government and there are roughly 2,400 of those in England alone including Prior Park College, Millfield, and King Edwards school to name a few. Or at least that's the most common definition, but some sources disagree on what exactly makes a school public or independent or if they're interchangeable terms.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_school_(United_Kingdom)
www.google.com/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/education/nine-uk-schools-produce-countrys-most-powerful-people-a3672371.html%3famp
So maybe it’s different in the UK, but in the US our toilets use a siphon (cast into the ceramic bowl) to drain the bowl, where your siphon example is about filling the bowl.
Basically, if you slowly pour water (or pee) into the toilet bowl, a bit just trickles down the drain. But if you quickly pour a bucket of water into the bowl, or flush it from the tank, it starts a siphon and the whole bowl drains.
I guess you’re right that this is similar to, but not exactly the same as the greedy cup. I believe the name behind the greedy cup is that if the pupil fills the cup too high (is greedy) the whole thing drains out, but if the pupil fills it only part way the he/she can drink the wine.
So in a greedy cup siphon it’s the quantity of liquid added that determines whether the siphon self-starts or not. Where in the toilet bowl it’s the rate of liquid added that determines whether the siphon self-starts.
Great video, thanks!
USA plumber here, Brandon said it! Ive never seen that mechanism in my career, very interesting. looks to be a different diameter than either size of our flush valves. I thought you were leading up to an explanation of the siphon in the bowl itself. -As always, great video! Thanks!
In the Uk the toilet bowl does not act like a siphon, The water in the bowl is there simply to stop the smell from the sewer coming back out of the toilet. The waste is simply pushed away by the fast flowing fresh water from the flush.
The siphon effect in a UK toilet bowl is much less pronounced than in a US toilet bowl. We don't keep as much water in the bowl, but we do dump quite a lot of water into it during the flush.
I think the bowl siphon is a yank thing, in the UK most toilets just have a U bend in them.
Woops, I guess we were all keen to tell America about our toilets.
@@creamwobbly Germany too, or so I've heard.
Wow. Ok, I learned something new today - never knew that's how the dispensers in a washing machine work! Thank you!
Amazing!
I never guessed that I needed to know about a Pythagorian siphon.
Who knew!
As others have indicated, in the united States of America the "flapper flush" is the most common design with only the occasional bell siphon. In recreational vehicles, passenger rail and aircraft a flapper closet is preferred.
You missed one siphon in the design, there is one (or, there are two) in the bowl.
Matthew Ellisor Not in U.K. toilet bowls, there is a U bend and horizontal rear waste connection on most toilets, vertical drains through the floor are rare.
I believe airplanes generally use a vacuum toilet these days. I know that they are what is used on the trains here in Canada too.
@@spencerwilton5831 If you read his comment, he specifically said "in the United States". That doesn't include the UK.
@@spencerwilton5831 I've come across one with a siphon - where the flush fills the pan 3/4 full then the whole lot empties.
Your pan siphon - is where the pan fills with water first (or is already filled) - Steve probably has not come across these.
As a tenant and engineer, I once wrote a one page essay on why my toilet was leaking for the real estate agent to send a plumber
Landlord?
@@Steeksify we have real estate agents acting as middle men between the tenant and landlord in Australia.
@@CrazyOne1 Not all the time. It all depends on your schedule. I find the amount of time and effort I save with a rental agent is well worth the flat rate fee they charge me. Time is money after all. But I do get what you mean.
@bmx bmx not everyone can afford a house
@bmx bmx keep riding your bike and negativity buddy. ✌🚲
What i love most about the channel is the 2D prototype part !!
This is such a wonderful thing. It makes Soxhlet extractor work
this channel makes me procrastinate SO much, literally i don't even have a washing machine
cringe bud
Lols 😂
Cringe
@@puch2728 You calling random people cringe is cringe.
@@limesandlemons1367 that’s even more cringe 😬
Teacher: we're gonna learn about washing machine today
Everyone: meh
CZcams: *recommend inside washing machine video*
Everyone: interesting....
That’s because nobody wants to be forced to learn stuff
Bro Modz big brain
It becomes interesting if you click on it not when teacher teaches it😁😁
sta1.m exactly
Bro Modz exactly
I had mine out to clean it recently and wondered, how appropriate for this video to come up
I live in Thunder Bay, Ontario Canada. No siphon flush toilets here… we have a fill valve that automatically fills the tank with either the ball-cock style float or the newer style fill valve that works similar to the float in a carburetor. The flush valve is basically a soft rubber flapper that lifts up and down by use of a chain connected to a lever moved by the flush handle. Once the flapper lifts the the tank drains directly into the toilet bowl via an internal canal and holes surrounding the upper wall of the bowl. Once the bowl is full enough, it reaches the siphon point and all goes down the stack. There are some variations of this design but basically they work the same way. Ive only seen two different designs of the lower bowl canal that siphons the waste water. One is older and has a slower, higher filling flush, and the other is newer and flushes faster with less water.
Ok that is fantastic
The kind of curiosity I love to have
Also the 2d build was very helpful to understand
Finally, my childhood cartoons where the character pulls a lever in air in a toilet got answered on how the mechanism works. We have the other type which presses downward.
@Gareeb Scientist I see you here and I feel so happy.
Btw. Indian toilet flushs don't use this mechanism right?
Cause the half flush works when we push the lever back up and not when we hold it as Steve said.
@@balakrishnaprabhubn3410
I was wondering the exact same thing . Iv not seen a siphon there.
If I pull it flows, but if I push it stops.
Those expensive flushes may have I'm not sure
@@krishnanov21 its a siphon based?
I am one of your subscriber keep doing good work bro
Keep doing what you do
Plumber here. British toilets use the syphon mechanism you explained, but it's not in use in mainland europe, middle east or north america. Great great video. Thank you brother.
Why do you not switch to a proper european one where you can freely and exactly regulate the amount of water you need?
whuzzzup they are available and are now quite common. The problem with them is they waste huge volumes of water when considered on a national level. The valves wear, or small particles of scale or dirt get lodged in them meaning they no longer seal properly. It's common to see a continental style toilet with a constant trickle of water running into the bowl. Multiple that by millions of toilets and you are wasting vast quantities of water. The syphon systems we used previously eliminate that problem altogether.
Educator here: siphon is correctly spelled with an i not a y. I too have been wrong for many years!
@@whuzzzup My English one is fine thank you. It has a minimum flush, a maximum flush and anywhere in between.
@@spencerwilton5831 My normal-ish UK model offers variable flush between a minimum and maximum.
This is something that I actually wondered how it worked...thanks for the explanation...👍
One thing I noticed when visiting the EU (I'm Canadian) was that most toilets have a 2-flush system. You can do the "light" flush to just cycle the water the bowl (for liquids), or a "heavy" flush (for solids). That's not a feature that is generally found in North America.
Ok, wow. Just pulled that draw out of the washing machine, spent 5 minutes cleaning that disgusting thing. The reward, one minute of pure knowledge bliss playing with a Pythagorean siphon. Steve you're amazing at explaining these curiosities and the examples you build or show us are so assessable and understandable, thank you.
Drawer* or more accurately, dispenser tray.
I hope this doesn't come across as pretentious, just trying to help where I can.
My washing machine doesn't have one of those. (It's vertical) The way my washing machine works there is a tower In the middle that spins and at the top of that tower there is a cup that you put the softener in. Around the side of that cup is another upside down cup with a hole that allows you to pour softener in. When the washing machine spins it pushes the softener out of the cup and Into the sides of the upper cup using centripetal force. It then funnels down Into little square holes that evenly distribute the softener into the clothes while spinning
let's get one thing clear here. nobody pronounces it "ur eye nalls"
but that aside, australian toilets have half press and full press buttons. half press does a half flush and full press does full flush, no waiting or holding required. now I'm actually a bit curious how the mechanisms make it work.
what about "pie tha GOR ee en"?
why are you here DeSinc? also can you please upload again
In Germany: One button for a full flush, one for a controllable flush.
his PYTHAGOREAN pronunciation is worse
Yes I am Australian this is correct
Excellent engineering explanation for non-engineers! Superbly presented!
Great video as always Steve. The two toilets in my house have been using the same syphon units for just under 40 years and, only recently, one of them finally failed due to the plastic diaphragm splitting. Because of the split it couldn't lift the water to prime the syphon. I replaced the plastic membrane for about £1.50 and away it flushes again 🚽
American toilets Actually do have a siphon but located on back of the underside of the bowl and not on the tank, flushing the tank into the bowl is what initiates the siphon.
You can "flush" these toilets by simply dumping a good amount of water, (about a gallon) directly into the bowl itself with a bucket, untill it initiates the siphon
You will notice a small of water returning to the Bowl after the siphon is done. Just as was demonstrated here.
Thank you, this resolves my dispute.
🇨🇦
Wrong, you’re thinking of a P-trap that blocks the sewer gasses from coming back into your house, butt(🤣🤣) when you dump water in the bowl all at once it does starts a siphon. Most American toilets have a plug. on a chain. in the tank. pull the plug. water runs in the bowl. Siphon sucks the poo away. Hate to brag but I’m know my toilets🤷🏽♂️
Ira Hartford it sounds like you’re describing exactly what they were describing
@@brettjenkins1645 I imagine all of them have the gas trap going to the sewer...cuz there were some fart gas kaboom issues that people ran into pretty fast..and the smell lol
The plug has some buoyancy to it so it floats enough to stay open while the tank is full and draining. Once all the water is gone the plug makes a seal again and as it fills again the pressure of the water keeps it sealed until the handle is pushed and the plug is lifted again. Rinse and repeat.
The half flush thing is a pretty fancy idea. Sometimes you do need a full tsunami to get the logs where they need to go, but that is probably a fraction of visits. lol
@@litpath3633 exactly, in a US toilet, the plug is set up to regulate the water with buoyancy and water pressure forcing it's way past. You can actually buy the siphon-style valves as upgrades here, and that feature does explain why they're called 'upgrades'. clearly, nice for the water-use conscious. I'dve liked that option when I lived on well-water.
Ive built tons of these for ebb and flow hydroponics. Tuning them ( specifically gapping the head and drain ) is the trick to get them working better.
Great channel, thx a lot for making these vids!
In me head: "how's a toilet not a greedy cup mechanism?"
"so why are we looking at the toilet tank??"
"the UK has different flush mechanisms‽‽‽‽‽‽"
Exactly what I was thinking.
Because it's manually triggered rather than triggered by the water level itself?
@@Intrinsion I think what Matthew was implying is that the bowl of the toilet empties using the greedy cup method. Being from the U.S., and having never encountered the siphon in the tank, I too was thinking he was going to discuss the siphon out of the bowl.
Andrew Snow Except toilet bowls in the UK are rarely siphonic, out toilets are usually drained via a horizontal pipe through the wall behind the toilet, rather than down through the floor. They have a simple P trap and use the force of the flush water to push waste through the trap. I remember as a child encountering a siphoning toilet that filled up alarmingly close to the brim before suddenly emptying- I was convinced I was about to flood the bathroom of the person who's house it was.
@@spencerwilton5831 Wow, that's just reminded me of something from when I was a child. The toilet at my grandparents' house was like that - it filled up before emptying, but any toilet can do that if it gets a bit blocked, so I didn't take that much notice of that - the bit that fascinated me was how the bowl almost completely emptied of all water towards the end of the flush, before filling back up slightly again, ending up at about the same level as other toilets. It got replaced with a "normal" toilet a few years later. I'd never come across another one like it before or since, and I had no idea how or why it did that until now.
Steve: mispronounces Pythagorean repeatedly with confidence.
Also Steve: questions the correct pronunciation of urinal.
Yur inal and pie thag orie en
He also says systen instead of system....or is that dialect?^^
@@bearpoik he's saying cistern, a slightly obscure word for a tank of water.
@@bearpoik a cistern is a part of a toilet
@@bearpoik He's saying cistern.
Wow answered almost all of my questions! Wanted to know about a washing machine, and found an answer!
These siphons are really handy in aquaponics, for draining and refilling the grow bed again and again for aeration.
Rob Bob's Backyard Aquaponics channel has a "chop-and-flip barrel" design using a 55 gallon drum with a bell siphon on top.
Another one for the list of things I didn’t know I wanted to know
"Yaknow what..toilets *are* interesting."
You make a good point 😂
Steve, you've made a really explanational video about the kind of siphon. The 2d experiment is beautiful.
Concerning the toilets in Russia: for all my soviet childhood (and, I guess, long ago before) we used only flap design with the flap sealed by the water pressure of the full tank (like Americans do and in your case too). I maintainced them a lot - pouring valve defects, flap hardens or contaminated (doesn't seal) and so on... In modern times we use different systems from mainly European manufacturers (with two volumes flushes options too), but they always use a kind of flap, so I've never seen the siphon type of the flushing device.
Anyway, it was cool to get into all of that!
Fascinating. I’m in America, and have never seen a flush mechanism like that. I thought you were going to discuss the other syphon! Thank you.
I've actually never seen this syphon style system before.
Here in Canada I've only ever seen the trap door style, the handle pulls a chain to lift a flap door on the bottom. To fill the tank back up with water, either using the old black rubber ball on the arm to stop the water flow when the tank is full or on newer systems the float is a plastic donut shape around the over flow drain tube.
I’m from Canada as well (Ontario specifically) ! And although I think I have seen a couple siphons, most of the toilets I’ve dealt with and happened to open up are “flap door” style as well
Ya here in Canada we use the lower part to act as a siphon and a different mechanism stops the water/flow after a few seconds. The design also acts as a "sewer seal" (to prevent odor/gasses from coming in (like a "P" trap under sinks). The Canadian toilets are a great design - only problem being it takes so long for enough snow to melt to use it again! lol
Yup, this is the common toilet in North America, I'm assuming the video is covering European toilets
Same in usa.
EXACTLY!!!
The Toilets I'm used to over here( America) use a Bowl Siphon in the base of the toilet. The tank holds a large amount of water and when the handle is pushed the tank empties itself into the bottom/bowl. That increase of water in the bowl starts the Bowl Siphon which "pulls" the water and waste out of the bowl and down the sewer. It's very interesting to see the different ways to accomplish the same thing.
Yes, the bowl always has a siphon. Steve is talking about a siphon in the reservoir tank.
@@8546Kenand as mentioned here in this comment, American toilets don't have the tank siphon, as it is just a hatch held shut by water pressure until opened. Also, the float is a little different from what I've seen. Basically the same thing but just in a different configuration
I've just discovered this Channel (and of course, I've suscribed😉) and you already answered one question for me, about the mechanism of washing machine dosing, thanks a lot🙏🙏
I used this system to build a bath sized filter for a pond. very cool to watch the seemingly mechanised system fill and empty all on its own
TIL: Brits pronounce "Pythagorean" differently from us.
If I type "pronounce Pythagorean" into google, neither the US nor the UK pronunciation sound like Steve Mould's.
The Pythagorean pronunciation I knew; the "urinal" one threw me off so hard I learned nothing from the video after.
@@jackwilliams7193 Me too! Usually, it takes most of my mental energy not to be hypnotized by Steve Mould's eyes. After hearing "Your-eye-nal" my brain couldn't process anything else. For some reason he says it the American way, I guess the UK version is to weird for him, too.
Brits don't, Steve does. I'm British and have never heard this pronunciation of 'Pythagorean' before. I think the 'urinal' pronunciation might be mixed in the UK, or possibly it's becoming more Americanised, I think I only heard the UK 'your-eye-nal' one as a child but I'm sure I've heard other Brits saying it the American way.
Py-thag-or-ian is how we pronounce it. Steve is just... Unique?
I thought it should be pronounced like Phthagorus and his theorum. Pie-thag-or-e-an
Huh, I've never seen a toilet flush mechanism like that! That's a pretty cool one.
I was thinking more that the lower part of the toilet works like a greedy cup siphon to finish emptying the bowl.
This.
Same, actually I was expecting him to talk about how the water flushed from the bowl to the drain through that sort of mechanism...
In the Uk the toilet bowl does not act like a siphon, The water in the bowl is there simply to stop the smell from the sewer coming back out of the toilet. The waste is simply pushed away by the fast flowing fresh water from the flush.
@@FloppydriveMaestro I see! But then what keeps that little pudle of water always in the bowl? There should be some sort of weir or siphone to do that no?
@@theandyv8176 It is the U bend built into the toilet bowl that keeps the water there.
thank for this video! It randomly came up but solves a problem that's bugged me for a while. I'm often a firm believer of more = more, so I just glug a lot of softener into the compartment. I've noticed that if I check the draw early into it's wash cycle to see if it's washed away the cleaning gel, I've noticed the softener has always vanished. I thought the washer was faulty and flushing the softener in too early.
Now, I put less softener in and it remains there until the correct time in the cycle! Less definitely does = more in this case!
Damn! And since a decade i was wondering behind my toilet flush mechanism and why it is dribbling water.
Hope you see this comment. I am so mesmerised by the way you made me understand and taught us. Thanks so much.
My toilet doesn’t have a siphon mechanism. Flushing the toilet just activates a door at the bottom of the water reservoir. (Edit: I have just been informed that toilets like mine do use a siphon, just not in the same location.)
mmmm yes I like toilets
Pretty sure most American toilets are this way, and they do use a siphon, just not at the same location. When you flush the toilet, the plug opens up at the bottom of the tank and all that rushing water exits the tank and enters the bowl on the sides and bottom and creates that push he was talking about to get the toilet’s water and contents up and over the pipe under the tank and into the sewer. If the plug doesn’t open properly and a lesser flow rate or no water at all is allowed to leave the tank, your toilet won’t flush properly for the reason he explains towards the end with the “dribbling water” bit
"Flushing the toilet just activates a door at the bottom of the water reservoir." That is the pouring @ 2:09 to fill the toilet bowl. The siphon kicks in when the water - and the unmentionables go down the drain until the siphoning sucks in air thus stopping the siphoning.
@@kffej101 The siphon being the bend in the toilet just after the bowl?
@@malijames12 no that's the water trap, the reason for the water trap is mainly to stop the smell from the sewer pipe coming back up into your home, sinks baths and showers have them too just smaller, your toilet may not have a syphon at all, it may well be just a simple door that opens when you flush to allow the water to flush down into the toilet bowl
U.S.: never seen a siphon in the tank. There is , of course, a siphon effect at the bowl.
Not in the UK !
@@millomweb Look again! It is.
@@klincecum It's panto season....
Oh no it's not !
@@millomweb How to toilet bowls drain in the UK?
@@RyanKelley87 Without siphoning - it's just a U trap and many of ours have nearly horizontal outlets from the back of the toilet and the pipework they connect to is relatively horizontal too - so it can't siphon.
It scares me that CZcams knew I'd love this channel... I never even considered this as an obsession
And yet
I am obsessed.
This is amazing! This is a very specific problem I have trying to figure out for a long time. I'll often over fill my fabric softener tray and could never stop it draining. Its so awesome that you addressed this one problem that has been perplexing me so much! lol thank you!
I never once cared about my fabric softener compartment, yet here I am.
In aquaponics we call this a bell siphon. We use them to fill and drain grow beds. Thanks for the video.
Actually I was wondering about that last week. I was genuinely intrigued as I watched the liquid pouring out completely
You say PYTH'agorian I say pyTHAGorean, let's call the whole thing off
Except that he keeps saying pythaGORean. Whereas anyone who's learnt the Pythagorean theorem knows it's PythagoREan.
@@rosiefay7283
"Whereas anyone who's learnt the Pythagorean theorem knows it's PythagoREan."
Well that's quite assuming. Only english speakers would pronounce it that way. In the original greek and in pretty much any germanic (and most roman) languages the emphasis is on the the second syllable, so it's "PyTHAgoras".
It's leviosa, not leviosa!
But oh if we call the whole thing of then we must part
And oh, if we ever part, then that might break my heart
I’ve never heard either of those pronunciations. I’ve always heard Pythagorean pronounced with the stress on the penultimate syllable.
In the US, I've not generally seen siphon based systems on the toilets, apart from urinals.
Well, that's partly true. When the tank empties into the bowl, I've not seen that part work by siphon. When the bowl empties to the sewer, that happens because of a siphon.
Yup US toilets are a siphon. You can initiate the flushing action just by pouring a gallon or so of water right into the bowl. Raise the water level about an inch or so and the siphon will start and rapidly suck away the waste. I'm sure at least for american toilets the stuff about aresolized particles settling on things like your toothbrush are BS because the "violent" flushing action is done by suction and once the water drains i'm sure a good couple cubic foot worth in air gets sucked down as well, the sucking is going to keep happening till the slug of water hits the sewer vent that goes up to the roof and it breaks the siphon. If it wern't for that vent the toilet would probably keep sucking as that slug of water made its way down the sewer line till it made it down to the much larger main sewer line.
Also called a bell syphon. They are used in fill and flush hydroponic/aquaponic systems.
Fascinating - interesting facts as I’ve always wanted to better understand how it works - thanks man!
Imagine being wine drunk and you accidentally fill the glass too high and dump it all over your white carpet
Thats the point if you greedy you get problem, greedy cup
Good thing ancient Greek houses weren't carpeted!
Sounds like the beginning of an infomercial
All you have to do is put your finger over the hole in the bottom, then you can fill the cup right to the edge.
@@ub3rfr3nzy94 Good thing alcohol is forbidden in islam😂
I learned this as a bell siphon. It’s used extensively in aquaponics.
Thank you! I was about to write the same comment!!
It's not - a bell siphon has a HEAVY cast iron bell in it and it's the weight of this that starts the flush when you release the flush lever (or chain). See: qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-880fc7a941ea281edf35e7c334f798a4
@@philippejobin90 It's not - a bell siphon has a HEAVY cast iron bell in it and it's the weight of this that starts the flush when you release the flush lever (or chain). See: qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-880fc7a941ea281edf35e7c334f798a4
pmailkeey the weight is immaterial. The siphon is initiated by lifting the bell, not dropping it. It’s obvious from the drawing. It is, in fact, the same sort of bell siphon.
@@HylanderSB I'm not convinced as what the point of mentioning the weight of it? Also, the falling bell is reducing the space underneath it, forcing the water to start the siphon. Lifting the bell increases the space under it - so the water level at the standpipe would drop - and therefore not start the siphoning.
Great video.
Although I more or less suspected that's how the toilet flush works, I had never seen a cut away view before. However, my home dual flush toilet actually works in the opposite manner as you show. If I let go of the flush handle immediately after pulling, it gives a Short flush. Pull and hold for Full flush.
Also if you use Fabric Softener be aware that it can cause Scum to form inside the space between the inner drum and the outer drum.
Found this out from a repairman who came to investigate why I regularly got small bits of scum on my washings. He had to remove the inner drum to clean the area. Stopped using fabric softener since then.
As a side note, since we are talking about toilets, to save water, I put small glass bottles in my cistern. Glass bottles because plastic bottles tend to float. You can't just lower the fill level too much, because the flush won't work. The reason is, if the water level is too low, you are not able to pull the water high enough to form the syphon flow.
Our upright washing machine uses another clever mechanism, nested cups with walls that slope outward. When the drum (and cups) spins at the end of the main wash the liquid is forced up the wall of the top cup into the cup below it. When the the drum again spins for the rinse cycle, the liquid is forced up the walls of the second cup and into the main perforated "stem" of the agitator where it is forced out and into the rinse water.
“Lets do the toilet.”
Me: Hyped.
mmmm yesss I like toilet
How awkward did you feel filming that urinal?! :-D
The syphon model is most common in the UK and according to the Wiki article (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flush_toilet#Siphon-flush_mechanism ), mandatory until 2001:
"Until 1 January 2001, the use of siphon-type cisterns was mandatory in the UK[11] to avoid the potential waste of water by millions of leaking toilets with flapper valves, but due to EU harmonisation the regulations have changed. These valves can sometimes be more difficult to operate than a "flapper"-based flush valve because the lever requires more torque than a flapper-flush-valve system. This additional torque is required at the tank lever because a certain amount of water must be moved up into the siphon passageway in order to initiate the siphon action in the tank. Splitting or jamming of the flexible flap covering the perforated disc can cause the cistern to go out of order."
Ohhhhh!!! That explains why it sometimes feels like you have to "kick-start" the whole thing (rather than just.. pressing)! It is indeed a problem I've never had elsewhere in Europe
Here in the US, I've only seen the flapper type
Can confirm this type of mechanism is not standard in the US.
Join to the SMILER!!!
So it was the EU's fault for making things shittier (pun intended).
Mr. Mould, you should make a video about the new double bell siphon that is just now being patented. It uses a snorkel and snorkel cup that surrounds the bell siphon to allow air flow into the siphon. It is being used in aquaponics systems, in which fish feed plants with their waste, and the plants clean the water for the fish.
I have an older model washing machine that has an internal structure similar to your 2D model, which is pretty cool but also makes it almost impossible to clean. It's second hand and it had a huge buildup of soap residue on the inside
the pythagorean siphon inside your washing machine
me: ohw cool i did not know that let's see how it works
_8 minutes in_
"toilets are interesting"
me: wait 👀
Wow, siphon toilet mechanism looks really clever!
Another great advantage of it that you didn't mentioned is that such a toilet would never leak. I mean, the only possible way would be to have a leaky input, not the output. Whereas in other designs with a literal plug that stops the water from draining, you have more than a few possibilities to get a leaky output: the plug can be misplaced, the seal can be affected by dirt or debris, the rubber of the plug can deform due to age and start leaking.
Where I live the flushes use another system. A white cork wich tryes to float keeps the flush open while is discharging, but when it's closed the water wheight avoid it to float and keeps the plug closed. For small discharges a little pressure to a thin vertical bar(one side bonded to cork and plug and the other side activated manually from outside) inverts the forces and help the plug to close the system. Easy and smart aswell
I live in NC in America and Berry Foster described American toilets. I’ve only seen them with the water line attached to a float valve that turns on and off the water as needed. A flapper with an air bubble in the bottom of the tank gets pulled open by the flush lever and doesn’t go back down until the tank is empty.
Mate, when people say toilets are siphons they aren't referring to the tank. They are referring to the bowl.
Yeah this drove me crazy
In the UK, I think two-stage flush are mandatory which do work on the siphon mechanism described (and are extremely prone to leakage and expensive to repair thus voiding any gains in the two-stage flush). In the US, the typical flush mechanism at the tank is a lot simpler and does not require a siphon.
At the bowl level however, S-traps can in situations create a full siphon are no longer code, you don't want to siphon out all the water there. You want to just flush the bowl with sufficient water to overcome and clear out the P-trap.
@@GuruEvi According to wikipedia, the most common type of toilets in the US is the siphon type. Called "Single trap siphonic toilet".
Same! I came here to the comments to mention this too, and found yours. I agree, my first thought was the bowl, and raising the water level overtaking the water in the trap, and ultimately siphoning the water down the drain. Maybe calls for a follow up video... 🚽
YES!!!
My toilet hangs on the wall and only has two buttons, so I guess it's just magic then.
That's the other mechanisms, yes.
It probably has a tank inside the wall that fills with water. If not then its a power flush that relies on water pressure and volume to flush. But those are typically only commercial.
I also believe the toilet hangs on the wall by magic or suction cup.
Not sure about where the call end up when you press those buttons, maybe the sewer call center.
So that's a tank in the wall between the studs and horizontal threaded rod into the studs to support the bowl, with the drain probably going down through the sill board below the studs. They're surprisingly useful for tiny houses when trying to fit a bathroom into less than 20 square feet.
I also use the sink when I shit
Nice video, though only thing I'd like to point out on the loo syphon is that the one way valve works slightly differently to how you explained: it pushes the water trapped above the valve over the top to start the syphon (or I guess prime it) and it is then the drop in pressure created by the water exiting the syphon that falls below the pressure of the rest of the water in the cistern which then tries to equalise and flows past the one way valve.. I didn't have a clue about the washing machine syphon, or greedy cup syphon, so thank you for the enlightenment!
Noticed frequent use of siphon valves in Australia. Here in the USA the siphon valve's used for public urinals, but not for home toilets (we use flapper/cylinder valves of much larger diameter for rapid water release).
I'd say most toilets I've come across in Italy have two buttons, the small one only partially drains the system, and the large one drains the system completely. Others toilets instead have one button, but it's really a seesaw lever, so you can press it on one side and it flushes, but if you press on the other side it stops the flushing
I have no idea how this is achieved inside though
Thats also the common system in Holland
In addition to the ones already mentioned, the one-button double-action toilets I've seen (mostly around Germany) so far are short press -> short flush, long press -> long flush. Not long press -> short flush, short press -> long flush as he says at the end.
@@rolfs2165 Same in France (yey international discussion on toilet flush design !)
im in britan and ive seen the two button, one button, and lever systems here
@@LucasL512 Not just in Holland, even in the rest of the Netherlands, would you believe... :D
I have been wondering how the fabric softener gets out of my machine for years! Thank you for answering this question for me!
Probably already discussed but North American toilet cisterns work more like a sink with a rubber stopper in the bottom. Old British toilets utilized a siphon very similar to what you described in your video, but the bell piece moved by the flush lever and chain.
Thank you very much for the wonderful information!!!
This has been recommended to me for 2 days straight. Fine youtube. I'm watching it.