How Nintendo Solved Zelda's Open World Problem
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 8. 05. 2023
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To mark the release of The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom, let's look back at the making of Breath of the Wild's open world.
=== Sources ===
How the "Open Air" world was created... | Gamer.Ne
www.gamer.ne.jp/news/20170901...
Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild has become a game... | IGN Japan
jp.ign.com/cedec-2017/16928/n...
The Perfect Game World Born under Nintendo's New Development Approach... | GNN Gamer
gnn.gamer.com.tw/detail.php?s...
The perfect game world of The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild... | 4Gamer
www.4gamer.net/games/341/G034...
Did the map for "Zelda" start in Kyoto!? | Game.Watch.Impress
game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs...
The Making of The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Video - Open-Air Concept | Nintendo
âą The Making of The Lege...
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wildâs map is based on Kyoto | Polygon
www.theverge.com/2017/3/6/148...
=== Credits ===
Music provided by Epidemic Sound - www.epidemicsound.com/referra... (Referral Link)
=== Subtitles ===
Contribute translated subtitles - amara.org/videos/eB3GnQWpxx4M/ - Hry
So what about the sequel, Tears of the Kingdom? Here's how Nintendo designed the incredible new mechanic, Ultrahand - czcams.com/video/pvOqTunOQB8/video.html
Ruined the open world concept for me, personally.
@@robinthrush9672 That fair different people have differant opinion
One of my favorite memories was when I purposefully avoided going to any of the divine beasts, and instead decided to just wander around starting from Kakariko village. Eventually I stumbled upon a bridge, and Sidon popped out and said hi. I thought they were just another NPC for a side quest, and I went to follow them. After arriving at the Zora Kingdom, I realized that I had stumbled upon the main quest completely by accident.
Thatâs Excatly what happened to me. I had no idea I was doing a main quest because Iâd purposely not looked at any guides. I dont know if it was fluke or insane developer guidance
Same
I did the same, though in my case I found the Zora at the top of the Sheikah tower who told me to talk to Sidon down at the bridge. Had no idea it was a main quest thing until I got going with Sidon. Such a fun surprising way to get introduced to a main quest. I remember telling my gf "oh I think I actually know what I'm supposed to be doing now..."
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED TO ME!!!!
I went one step further with Totk in that I discovered and reached one of the core temples less than 30 minutes after unlocking my 3rd tower(unlocking all the towers is basically the first thing on the list of things I do after the tutorial btw). I wasn't following any quest marker either and hadn't met any of the companions I just found an interesting looking path and decided to follow it to it's end. Once I realized just how advanced of a place I was in with 4 hearts I noped out of there real quick.
The big thing that stood out to me in BoTW was that exploring required you to actually...explore. It kinda blew my mind when they introduced the first tower and basically told you "Yes, you actually need to look around, find the thing yourself and mark it yourself" instead of just filling your map automatically with a bunch of points of interest.
I think those auto-filled map icons are far more overwhelming than seeing a ton of interesting locations to go to. A map is just a bunch of markers for specific things, so you choose what you want to travel to, with no real mystery as to what it is. If you look around yourself, you see locations you want to explore. Sure, if it's a shrine or stable, you know what it is. But if it's an interesting looking cave, or a high mountain, or some other non-specific feature, you don't know as much what you're going to find. And that's much more fun.
The emphasis on physical, visible landmarks rather than glowing icons or waypoints or UI elements makes such a huge difference for that feeling of exploration.
@@AnotherDuck What amazes me most, is that some areas of interest, were sometimes nothing more than "Oh, wow, this is a beautiful sight!" No Korok Seed, no Shrine, the only thing that sticks out, is the massive view of the surrounding area, where you can see so much, because you just so happen to find yourself at the top of the tallest triangle in the area. And even with nothing more than that beautiful sight, I still felt accomplished; nothing to advance progress, but by god I did a thing!
RD2 was wild and rewarding w/o the points of interest. I dig point of interest w/ landmarks that pique players interest in FONV, which only shows up to HUD compass when you're pretty close to it's vicinity. also the writing when they mention a location that sparks curiousity (similar to Outerwilds) and dynamic writing where side quest interconnects like Novac, Primm, or Vault 22.
@@deathsheir2035 this is probably why a lot of people think the map is empty. It's hard to make someone understand what they've never experienced in the first place. The simple joy of climbing a mountain beats any materialistic rewards. It's why death stranding had such negative reception from the western fans.
I remember deciding one day to climb the tallest mountain in botw, then surprised to find a sick dragon God on top of it. This was the extra reward for me cuz I already got the reward of climbing the mountain and getting the view - the bgm was serene as well.
Also, having the endgoal of the entire game obviously in the center and almost always in sight, I think, helped mitigate concerns of "not knowing what to do." The point is to explore and power up so you can eventually go to the middle. Once I understood this, the game became more enjoyable. It's why I immediately jumped into the fun with totk.
Elden Ring then used the same method by placing the erdtree in sight from every point in the game.
yeah! I'm currently playing totk without completing dungeons in order to power up first so I'm all maxed out when I fight my first boss XD. I also like completing side quests (like infilitrating the yiga clan). Even if you do the game 100% , there will probably still be things you can do, since it's such a big map.
@@jctabsdidnât stop people from quitting
MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!! THE 80-20 RULE/PRINCIPLE LITERALLY APPLIES TO NINTENDO PLAYTESTERS TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!! :D :D
Fallout New Vegas' "The Strip"
You can definitely see how they've even, somehow, improved upon these concepts in TOTK:
Stables now have pillars of smoke rising into the sky from the horse's mouths,
The towers quite literally have spotlights lighting them up
A green aura radiates upwards from the shrines
and even when diving from a sky island I've never spotted much more than 3 shrines at once, plus some other points of interest.
Also, due to the depths, finding shrines in the overworld is way easier compared to the original game. The connection between the depths and the overworld is my favorite piece of totk game design
@@ineffabletryx6528and for people like me who dont like the depths at all it's also a great solution, I've done around 110shrines so already have the places of most of the roots
Is it me or in TOTK i feel a bit more guided than in BOTW? to me TOTK really nailed the balance between guided path and random exploration
@@davidem759for a while I had the opposite impression because being introduced through BOTW to Zelda, and wanting to try and find all the hidden stuff that I found about in the first game and missed since I was story oriented, I just kinda did shit elsewhere, if I unlocked a map, I covered the section in heroes path before I went somewhere else. In fact I found Mineru before Iâd even finished all the regional phenomena (though right after the initial cutscene of the owl mask I reloaded a save because I felt like I wasnât supposed to be there, and went back before I went to the raised castle) I thought that thunderstorm was permanent and just toughed through it with a completionist mindset, bitching the whole time. Letâs just say when I did the ring ruin quest and saw the thunder strikes clear the storm, I was fucking livid with myself.
@@davidem759now that Iâm done Iâm definitely gonna go back and play it in the intended order on a new save
The triangle rule is seriously blowing my mind right now. It might not seem like it at first but it really is a genius solution to such an obscure and difficult problem.
Honestly, it's super dumb but lesser companies could have missed it.
Creating a world of constant peaks and valleys pretty much solved all the problems at the same time, as it:
- Makes good use of 3D space
- Naturally creates bubbles of content interconnected to all the others
- Creates a feedback loop with the climbing mechanic (they justify each other)
- Enhances the sense of curiosity then leading to decision making
- Creates challenges
- Showcases all the environement work in the best possible way by creating gorgeous vistas in which all the systems come together
- Creates better / more opportunities for the paraglider
- Helps on a technical level with rendering that massive world seamlessly
Genius.
@@thisisfyne it also helps that the game isn't tied down by realism.
@@thisisfyne I mean botw did nothing new really
@@tumultuousv It literally uses ubisofts open world formula......an idiot could see it, it even has towers that reveal the map ffs
I don't think you can even compare ubisoft strategy with botw. I don't think you played the right game
I love how you can completely miss less important landmarks until you're hundreds of hours into the game. For example, I was astonished at how late I discovered the snowbowling minigame, the fairy fountain right next to Tarry Town, the horseback archery course, and lots of random little named locations (e.g. Shadow Hamlet Ruins) only found by scouring for Koroks.
I also have to give props to whoever composed the little musical sting when you find a new location. It's so satisfying.
How much would you say the story elements you encounter at various locs gives you clues from which you get a general idea where to go would be worthwhile? Is the story a subtle directional guide, too, or does the game use the various landmarks just for diversion while expecting that eventually you will approach a tower?
I didnât discover the snowball bowling until my second play through lol. I logged 375 hours in botw before starting totk.
The horse fairy really surprised me. Didnât find that until very late in my play through.
I discovered the stable near the desert after 400 hours and 2 entire playthrough. I was utterly shocked that something this big could remain hidden to me for so long
ââ@@Dowlphin I did the rito first, and idk what it was but I'd say it felt at least a little purposeful from the developers for me to go there. After that, I really think I'm being directed to death mountain. I can definetely feel gentle nudges from the developers for the main quest, but it's subtle enough that it's not annoying if you want to go against it, yet helpful if you need some more guidance. There are also plenty of things to do if you don't want to follow the main quest, and you can usually find something to do if you go to the nearest village instead of wandering around aimlessly like in BOTW
I think one of the things that also feels really rewarding about this kind of exploration is the fact that you really 'take in' the map into your memory. At times you spin the camera and spot somewhere you were 10 hours ago from a different angle and it's kinda nostalgic and awesome!
One of the coolest things about TOTK is how NPC dialogue naturally directs you to other locations,quests, items, lore etc. In other open world games, NPCâs usually just exist for a singular purpose but in this game, they might suggest checking out a village you may or may not have been to already and will give you details, even after finishing their quest line
Itâll be fun to see how/if the triangle paradigm is used in Tears of the Kingdom. Hard to hide a hundred floating islands behind a mountain
@@gregoryford2532 asked and answered, dang. Clouds are the mountains of the sky
And well... The lack of route thereof. The scale of difficulty to reach it is different. While everything else is climbable, sky islands require something else.
Also, render distance
@@weedweeb9211 I'm so excited to have obstacles that are just unreachable at some points! In BotW, the worst it got was "ah shoot, I need another stamina wheel to get up this mountain, oh well" in TotK, I'm thinking it'll be "ah shoot, I have to build a plane to get up there"
A triangle but upside down. If you can't hide stuff above ground, then put it underground with caves and stuff. My perspective but everyone see things differently I guess.
If anything the triangle shape of the mountain will highlight and add to the sky islands visibility
World design is so important to any type of game, and it can be hard to analyze when it's meant to be naturalistic like in Zelda, but no matter the setting, everything is there for a reason.
Yes, the 100 empty ass hills that I have to climb up is there for a reason, the 1000 chests with some trash breakable weapons is there to make you feel stupid for even seeking them out.
â@@zZiL341yRj736 the point is that simply exploring the map is Fun, because it's beatiful, It have good art direction, simply looking at the Horizon from a tall Hill after getting a korok is fun, it's not like the map of Horizon games, Ac games and etcetera, where you have 10000 side quests that simply arent Fun to do
@@zZiL341yRj736 It's almost if, as explained in the video, part of the freedom in Zelda:BotW is choosing your priorities. Nothing in the game is required, everything is optional. Frustrated with empty hills, then don't go after then, go after shrines, and towers and story quests. These weapons sure are usells at the mid to end of the game but they were a hard priority in the start when you were armed with only sticks and blunt tools.
@@RainMaker164 Yes! You do it because itâs fun! Playing the game is fun! You are going on an adventure in a big world because itâs fun! The loot is just to help encourage players to play the game in a fun way (otherwise a lot of players will optimize the fun out of the game).
And the reason is a shrine. đ
Epic! I wondered how this worked. I never take the roads. Sometimes I wondered if I should've. I'm playing Tears of the Kingdom right now and I feel like the level design has been improved even more because after finishing one point of interest, there's usually a next one nearby. It's hard to stop playing TOTK.
I spent my first 60 hours of BoTW feeling like I was playing it âwrong.â I would stumble upon things by complete accident, somehow finish sidequests before they were even assigned to me, entering towns from the back, speaking to townsfolk who were providing me hints to things I already accidentally discovered, yet unable to help me with the things I was trying to look for. No clear objective. Itâs only now, 80 hrs in, that I feel like I finally understand how to play, and I want to start all over.
It's also why I've ignored having a horse in my BOTW playtime, because there is _so much_ stuff that you can find on foot that you can easily miss on horseback.
so you have already started playing on the switch you bought from pune, havent you? i am glad we share some interests!
roads have their benefits but i wouldn't say they're better or worse than going through the wilderness. roads are great for horseback travel, and you can often find vendors travelling on roads too that sell cooking ingredients or other stuff
@@gnocchidokie I was just feeling today that I was somehow playing TotK "wrong". I totally relate to this feeling, even though its being encouraged by Nintendo the whole time.
I think something that really helps this style of exploration is the scope, pins, and stamps. You can mark interesting locations, and the scope and pins make it very easy to relate a spot in the game world to a spot on the map.
If you climb a mountain or a tower and see half a dozen interesting things, you can mark them all down for later. It really helps with keeping your bearings in such an open world where you can go anywhere at any time.
What I appreciated about Breath so much was discovery for its own sake.
Your push to explore wasnt based off of video game-y stuff like numbers going up or some secret op weapon, it was pure, almost childlike.
Nintendo wanted players to move in the right direction, but wanted the world to be open, so their solution was to make every direction the right direction.
Thank you for compiling this and restoring it, it's rare enough that Nintendo shares scenes from behind the curtain, so it's very, very valuable to make sure that information is shared far and wide.
what's amazing to me is how well it works out
if you are speedrunning and only go to the shrines on your path, you'll get ENOUGH hearts to get by.. yet there's always tough enough enemies and tall enough cliffs to make you want more life and stamina than you have, instead of the usual complacency zelda games get even BEFORE giving you take-half-damage as an upgrade (which i guess now is armor, but armor feels like a default necessity most of the time)
If you're exploring for completion, you will get enough korog seeds... _for completion of your slots._ because there are SO damn many. Getting all 900 of them flat-out requires a guide, but getting the 500 or so you need is juuust barely doable. And the warp points are juust close enough to let you inch around most places and get your exploring in, expanding your active map til you get everywhere. Nothing probably stays unexplored, except maybe some of the more awkward islands or that conspicuously checkpointless area on one side of death mountain where you also can't bring a horse.
BOTW, ER, RD2, and FONV were on my list for openworlds, it's already great when it rewards players freedom, Exploration, and curiousity.
Ironic that they were bothered about people making a beeline for the towers when most recent open world games have you make a beeline for the towers, then you make a beeline for the nearest collectible without ever really exploring the area and discovering things. The game may as well be playing itself at that point.
BY COPYING FORTNITE.
"so their solution was to make every direction the right direction."
But you are also wrong. I went to one direction, i met hard enemies. I went to other way, i met very cold weather. I went different way, i met minotaur that sniped me from far away.
I remember first starting this game thinking there were no friendly NPCs other than the old man. It took me far too long to come across anybody but when I did I was shocked to see someone walking down the road and right after that I found all sorts of people and it really opened up.
My first time playing the game was some time after it came out, and it wasnât on a switch I owned, it was my babysitterâs. I hadnât even met the old man when I saw 2 npcs sitting under a tree, lol.
I love how TOTK manages to completely upend and expand upon this design by adding so much freedom in the sky, land, and depths. TBH the depths feel like they are their own game.
And also caves as additional hidden places to find across the map, itâs so cool
i know, right? I loved how TOTK managed to get this "suprise-effect"/"exploring-effect" back. Before I played the game I was afraid, that due to the map staying mostly the same, it wouldnÂŽt be as suprising while exploring like BOTW. But boy was I wrong! It feels like IÂŽm exploring a brand new world with only a few landmarks that I can remember. For me personally it feels explactly like BOTW but in a newer and fresher way.
The sky and especially depths have almost no content or variety though. It's hard to understand how this game took 6 years to make - it feels more like a big expansion pack than a new game. It's still a great game and worth the price, but it could have been even more.
with the exact same reskinned enemy's from the first game lmao. congrats on your 60 dollar reskin
@@DurkDiggler thatâs $70
I'd love it if you talked about BotW's weather.
Because I love the climbing mechanic so much, my approach was generally to climb over anything in the way between me and my goal.
I eventually realized that, as annoying as rainstorms first seemed, they forced me to change up my approach, and explore in a different way (if only temporarily)!
On top of that you canât use metal tools in thunder or use wooden tools in hotter areas. Then when youâre in gerudo death mountain or tabantha you have to choose if you want to scour for resources to make elixirs or collect the armors that allow you survive in that area.
@@lanejaxon2276 or youâre like me and you just tough it out because youâre stubborn and play in the most difficult, sideways manners possible đ
I just afked until it stopped
@@Shadyzebra7
Except that Zora's Domain is specifically designed so that you can't just wait it out. The rain is constant. It pretty much forces you to take the road and either learn to fight or find better stealth options than just being too high for anyone to reach.
So, I climbed all the way anyway and got good at meticulously, tediously finding every possible tiny foothold.
Meanwhile, my sister Cryonis'd her way up the river and waterfall.
â@@BonaparteBardithionngl i always thought it was a poor design choice. What is the alternative? Walk around? The climbing mechanic is really fun so crippling you during rain sucks. To me it's always "ah shit it rains, guess Ill do something else than climbing this mountain". To me it limits player choice.
One major issue I had was only having Hestu only available at a single location. My buddy was 10 hours into the game and had no idea what Korok seeds were for. He's not one to look things up online or watch videos, so he just thought they were a random collectible in the game. I had to explain to him they were a currency and would greatly help him get more gear. He's a nomad in adventuring/open world games, so he immediately starts exploring off the beaten path. So he never even came close to Hestu's initial spawning location. Special NPC's like that should be in many places or spawn according to finding your first few of the resource they are associated with.
Does hetsu really only show up at a single specific location? I play the same way as your friend and I stumbled on hetsu pretty quickly in both BotW and TotK. 10 hours isn't terribly far into the game really
I think the first place he appears is very straight foward since it's in the way to Kakariko, isn't it?
Eh, that also adds to the "realism" aspect- if you wander around randomly, there are places you won't get to right away. And then finally discovering it makes it all the cooler!
See but this the exact opposite of what Nintendo is going for with forcing the player to explore. It rewards the player for actually venturing out rather than him spawning to you (even if Hestu was at a super common area for his initial spawn.) Hestu isnât necessary to play the game. Heâs just an added bonus to create backpack space. A good comparison for this would be the plateau and the 4 primary shrines that give you your abilities. This containment was necessary. Hestuâs appearance is not.
I agree with you. I was the exact same way as your friend. I took the wacky path to kakariko village and completely missed hetsu. If I hadn't randomly seen a video about him, I never would have.
What i felt and love about both games, is how confident i feel about exploring, i'm not afraid of missing something because i walk out of the main the road, and i'm sure that eventualy i'll end up on the "right" track" without having to backpedal to were the roads split up.
Watching this after playing more hours of Tears of the Kingdom than I would care to admit, I laughed out loud at the âset a goal, get distracted, set a different goal, get distracted again, eventually reach an important location or plot pointâ segment, because this so perfectly describes what happens as I play. It also explains how the game sucks you in so hard-once you do one little thing, thereâs just one more thing you notice from your new vantage point, and itâs just one thing, you can get one more thing in before doing laundry, and before you know it, six hours have passed and every laundromat in the city is closed.
and then right before you're about to close the game. a peice of rock comes falling from the sky.
So true. I was heading in the direction of another not-yet-visited Skyview Tower and realized I was next to the Great Plateau and *had* to explore that. Climbed up to reunite Koroks, spotted that the entrance was leaking, oh hey there's the Statue quest and what's this big mine and oh cool new ability...
mark you are an absolute treasure and such an amazing resource for all things game design. thank you for putting this together
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Yeah, he explains how our goopy goblin brain enjoy games as you say pretty well!
i always play games from the comfort of my yoga ball
hey, dont stop making music. Play hard and work hard!!
Oh my god itâs the best boi himself! Dog bless Jakey
One of the most engrossing experiences I had with BOTW was exploring the Hebra region for the first time completely blind since I entered up from Rito Village (the sheikah tower was all the way on the southeastern side). It was cold, quiet, harsh, murky, and extremely vertical/mountainous. It all lead to an unforgettable atmospheric evening I had playing Zelda and getting lost.
Eventually I saw the tower's glow thru the fog but it was so far I just kept exploring the immediate area for shrines and goodies.
That sounds amazingly fun. Iâm sure I also had evenings like that but Iâm picturing yours and it feels like a great time. What a game.
I still went to the towers first in botw and totk. I just like unlocking the map first and use it to help explore the world and find interesting places to explore
i'm glad i'm not the only one! the depths were super hard for basically a beginner character, and since you don't have shrines down there it stayed pretty hard the whole time. but the challenge made it so much more fun and it was so satisfying to light up everything (even if i had to go back to the surface for a lot of the lights) that i didn't even mind that the only reward was a little trophy shaped like a lightroot! i almost felt like i had finished the game until i realized i hadn't actually done any of the main storyline lol
@@normalperson4sure Iâm sure by now Iâm late af but each shrine above is matched in the depths with a light root at same coordinates
@@diabloakland don't worry, i figured that one out! i meant that i didn't explore the overworld/sky islands at all, so i didn't get hearts or more stamina. which made the depths feel more like a stealth/survival game, especially because i also didn't have very much food (i would begrudgingly fast travel to lookout landing to sell and buy things sometimes, but there was a limit to the amount of edible food available). a real challenge and one i missed for the rest of the game, because i'm a crazy person
@@normalperson4sureThis.. This is what Nintendo intended. Not exactly what you did, but the fact that you innovated your own version of the game based on your strive for curiosity. Good on ye.
I feel like elden ring also does this really well. You go towards something interesting in the distance, only to find a couple more interesting locations along the way to explore
When I found out you could drop down by Bestial Sanctum my mind was blown. Plus, that random Magic Stone Golem off the most random Caelid cliff edge that only 0.01% of players would even check without a cheat guide.
FromSoftware: "Ah yes, put that highly unique enemy on 1 random cliff and no where else in the entire game, give it one of the most powerful attacks too, so they get instantly beamed to death".
As different as they are, Elden ring took some good advices from BotW, no doubt.
Agreed elden ring did the same thing and they are some of the most popular single player games of the last 10 years
@@Ferrante69 ER is such an amalgamation of openworld genre inspired by previous titles.
ER openworld was reminiscent of FONV for me when it comes to respecting players freedom and notably the dynamic narrative offering players choice
Once you fully reveal the entire map of Hyrule, it feels far smaller than it did at first, but the triangle rule you mentioned, of ensuring that there's always things creating those 'barriers', is a great way to increase the size of the world from a gameplay perspective. I was blown away playing through it the first time, and even now I still discover new things I'd never found before.
I always get that feeling in open world maps. When I first bought Skyrim, while it was installing, took a look at the paper map that came in the box, my first thought was "That's it? It looks small." It's a completely different story when you're on the ground.
Capturing the king of the mountain creature was a personal highlight
It never felt smaller to me. If anything the map felt way too large, & revealing it all did nothing to change that.
@@Oxtocoatl13 never had that feeling outside of Botw. Botw actually guided me, in skyrim and every other game i just randomly select a direction and found things not because the game guided me in some way.
ok
This is trueee, the game almost felt like a tv show. I was wondering and exploring for myself looking for shrined and then sidon jumps out of nowhere. It really feels like you are making the timeline of your own story
This. It felt like my own story.
What's really cool is that you can find Sidon at the beginning of the path to Zora's Domain, but if you manage to find your way to Zora's Domain without encountering him he'll be there in the king's chamber and his dialogue will be different because he hasn't seen you before. It's amazing.
Adding fog also creates the same effect of not being overwhelmed by the world. It block all new points until you come closer. But also fog always makes the world feel 5x times bigger.
It's great to see how well Nintendo has the iteration cycle down of developing designs and following with playtests, and then tracking the playtests with such things as heat maps and whatnot, they must have some great infrastructure for the game development process
It's cool to see that there is a trial and error to creating something like this. Great games can seem almost effortlessly good, as if the teams just instinctively knew everything they needed to do. It's encouraging to remember that even when there's a talented team with a great vision, they encounter challenges with how to realize that vision.
Other developers would have released the trial and error version as full game in full price.
Yep! Things reminds me how every time I encounter something that feels "effortlessly good", I'm reminded of some famed writer who lived a few centuries ago and in a letter apologized for not having the time to make it shorter. That which feels easy and effortless to read (or to play or whatever), is often the result of a great deal of effort and skill.
Skyrim is like that. They made so many correct decisions that you don't even notice. The game is just insanely addictive and as a player you don't even realize why. They took or fixed (or were good enough not to put in) pretty much everything that makes a game annoying and kept in and expanded upon all the stuff that makes a game fun.
Thanks for sharing everything that had been scrubbed off the internet. It was a real delight to see. BotW is my personal favorite Zelda game, and it's rare to find more information about it that's more than speculation or based off an unscripted interview.
People need to download this video and get ready to re-upload it on a dummy channel. I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo tries to copyright strike it down.
Also thank fuck for the Internet Archive
â@@PherPhur yes lol
â@@PherPhur Done! Downloading a copy right now :)
It wasn't scrubbed though, there's a talk from GDC by Nintendo in english uploaded to their youtube channel. With pretty much same points and even more info.
One thing I also enjoyed was after parts of the map were revealed, the names of the locations/regions were so cool or interesting. There was also SOO MANY of them. Example Lanayru sounds like a pretty bad ass region. The Forgotten Temple sounded so cool and was MASIVE in scale. And who could forget their first time ever seeing the Twin Peaks from everywhere on the map. Even something as simple as Loverâs Pond đ. I was like âI gotta find this Loverâs Pond!â And itâs actually heart shaped đđđ
i know someone who heard the old man say head to the tall mountain, and they ended up climbing hebra. then they figured out they could get a horse, then it got killed by farosh on the hylia bridge, then they played the game for a good 400 hours before finding malanya the horse god
love how practically genuine open world genres are when it comes to piquing interest
one of the cool things Elden Ring and Breath of the Wild have in common in addition to everything you mentioned in the video, is the fact that the primary goal of the game is at the center of it all, and visible from nearly anywhere in the world. you may indeed get sidetracked a dozen times as you explore, but you never forget why you're there. i've never played Elden Ring - don't know if i ever could, honestly - but i've watched several playthroughs (some multiple times over) and even as a mere observer, i never had the feeling of "god damn it just get to the tree already!!" because i, like the player i was watching, felt completely immersed and invested in every sidetracked adventure, never anxious to get to the "end". every time the player arrives at the crest of some new, vast vista, i feel a renewed sense of anticipation for all the wonderful mysteries and encounters that were sure to lie ahead. heck, the tree's not GOING anywhere, Marika's been chillin' in there for a good while now, what's another few hours? or days? or weeks? she'll be FINE. that's how it felt to me, anyway, ahaha.
i only just started playing BotW, but i look forward to actually having the chance to experience all these things for myself. pokemon legends arceus is WAY smaller than both games, and broken up into distinct regions, but even that game i found incredibly rewarding to wander around in. i'm the type of person who loves collectibles, and i felt that PLA and BotW both do theirs correctly by more or less putting those collectibles in places that already draw the player's attention. i know that when i see a tall peak, there's bound to be something there. a conspicuous rock balancing on a cliff edge, no way that's a coincidence. i absolutely despite collectibles that are just hidden away in completely random, hard to find spots - having to scour every inch of a map, no matter how small, to find bullshit collectible locations has NO appeal to me, and is a copout way to include collectibles in a game. yeah they're hard to find... because there's no reason for a person to EVER check that tiny random corner over the million other corners in the game. let me be rewarded for a natural curiosity, where something catches my attention, and sure enough, the dev's easter egg or collectible is there waiting for me. sorry, that got off topic fast but i couldn't help myself ahaha. i look forward to hunting for korok seeds in BotW!
I wonder so much how this insane map they've made holds up to a SECOND game being hosted in it. It's gonna be such an interesting experiment
Been playing it for a few hours, map feels like it's new. But I haven't played BOTW for years, I probably forgot it almost entirely.
Six years in development really shows with sequel.
I've played for 20 or so hours it holds up.
The game is unbelievably good
I'd hope the game is good. Botw was a beta test.
So are you guys going to âbuyâ the game as well or just stick with a free copy? đ€ Iâm curious to know the mindset of a pirateđ«Ł
@@sabi6684 I played the leaked copy early although I have bought the game legitimately via pre order for two reasons.
1) Its an incredible game, I want to show Nintendo I want more products this good.
2) I want to play it on my unhacked OLED
The world design of Breath of the Wild is truly something special. One aspect that is really brilliantly designed if the climbing system. With how climbing works, players are truly free to carve their own path through the world, being able to ascend any cliff face if they have enough Stamina. But Stamina starts out quite limited, so players are encouraged to pay close attention to the geography of the environment around them, to visually identify useful paths. Stamina recovery items enable players to climb much farther distances, and they encourage players to forage and engage with the cooking system. And once a player reaches a high point, they can then use that to their advantage via the Paraglider or perhaps shield surfing.
The verticality of the world of BotW is truly meaningful.
They still use invisible walls with rain to keep you out of areas they dont want you in. Its not fully open
Rain has the effect of requiring a lot more Stamina to ascend cliffs. There are ways to get past that limitation. It's not mechanically equivalent to invisible walls.
However, the game actually does have invisible walls around Death Mountain, which I wasn't a fan of. The Lost Woods with its void out effect is similar, though it's actually possible to bypass that with enough speed.
@@chiquita683 Barring Zora's Domain pre-Divine Beast and like one or two other areas, I think, rain is always but a temporary obstacle, and can even be overcome directly with the right methods. So it's dissuasive at worst, encouraging you to take alternative paths or seek out other points of interest, like powerful enemies or other hazards might. It hardly gets in the way of the open-world premise. (I think it can be argued that it reinforces it, even.)
Yeah, there were very few places where the game said "no". Rain was annoying (especially when halfway up a mountain) but there were ways around it for short climbs. Shrine interiors (and sometimes in the world) weren't climbable but that was made into part of the puzzle. The rest of the time, you could usually go anywhere no matter how silly with enough effort. I loved looking at slopes versus my stamina and actually plotting a route up a cliff, finding places that were easier or where I could find enough footing to recover.
If you enjoyed the verticality you'll love ToTK. It surprised me in many ways.
the background work you did for this video is staggering. well done!
Take my like. Simply for the work in making previously 'unavailable' information, available for us to learn from. You are an absolute legend.
The CEDEC stuff is the most interesting info about BotW's development, glad to see you making that more accessible! They also had some cool slides about making bug fixing a more constant process throughout development - curious how they went about that for TotK with it's myriad of additional systems.
Ghost of Tsushima did the points of interest breadcrumb trail really well imo. The beauty of its world design was a big part, I was compelled to ride through a forrest or to the top of a hill or down into a valley just to look at and be in the environment. I'd frequently take detours from my next waypoint just to gallop through a field of pampas grass.
Then I'd trip over a fox and get completely sidetracked for forty-five minutes.
I had more fun walking around and wandering mindlessly than actually going for objectives. It felt so great when you stumbled on a new area, shrine, etcâŠ
I think the Koroks are an important part of the design, while the map is mostly empty, it is littered with these small challeges/puzzles that encourage you to visit anything that looks slightly weird
except they added way too many and 90% of them are mundane copy/pastes.
ok
@@Pat315 You're not meant to get all of them, they added tons so that you can get full benefit even if you miss a lot of them.
@@robokill387 That and to prevent players from stumbling upon an empty plot of land in terms of content. Even if you don't like or need the content in a given area, there is always something you could do in any part of the map. The map never actively wastes your time by making you go somewhere and not give you something for going there. At worst the thing you find is something you don't need, but at least you'll find something.
@@Pat315 I feel that if the reward for finding all of them is a golden turd, you are not supposed to do it
This is also good advice for running open world D&D campaigns. Having to many options available will confuse the players. Have only 3 "visible" from any one point will really simplify things, and you can have them branch off to dozens of possible quests.
Inspiring analytical way of game making and Iâm also sure there were much more thoughtful, artistic, and creative processes to apply and Makes me appreciate their hard work even more. Thank you for your insight!
Thank you so much for keeping detailed game desing information easily available, awesome video
What blew me away when playing the game is how well they designed around the sight lines. There are so many locations that conspicuously obscure or reveal other things like shrines or quests. The location in Kakariko briefly shown here at 6:56 was such a great example of this. The player was verbally guided and given the location in the map for Kakariko from the King, and a few NPC's will even give some directions to it as well right off the Great Plateau (one even saying something like "it's about a day's travel" or something, which is actually how long it does take to get there on foot from that location, which I thought was great). But from Kakariko, the main line quest sends you off potentially in all directions. But this little opening and viewing spot in Kakariko opens up to a huge wide open flat area, with multiple shrines in view, a couple new towers, and a lot to explore.
I remember the first time i played this game. It took me DAYS to really start the main story. I was amazed with everything⊠the quests, the little puzzles, the dragons, the ruins, everythingâŠ
Sorry but this is a game for babies. Link and Mario are the new Bert and Ernie. The vehicle building stuff is fisher price. Sorry I donât play easy games. Our ancestors lived tough and terrible lives and today we live easy comfortable livesâŠ. the least we can do to honor what they endured is to challenge ourselves like they were challenged and play challenging games. .. Wanba play a proper challenge? ever heard of the dark souls games ?, those games are proper challenging and none of u would last two seconds playing them because you gone so soft playing baby Nintendo games. Get your acts together and challenge yourselves!
Incredible video. Thanks for putting this together!
first time ever coming across this channel. this video was beautifully put together, you earned my subscription!
This is hilarious to hear considering unlocking all the towers was the very first thing I did. Not because I felt forced to but because it's my personal play style that in every open world game I play that has the tower/reveal map mechanic I always do my best to unlock the map asap before starting any major exploration.
But did you beeline straight to each tower or leap frog across a series of points of interests along the way?
@@Elena-tj3so The only other points of interest I would go to are shrines that are close to my chosen path or things that are directly on my path to the tower. After the towers I would use those towers to glide around the world marking every single shrine that can easily be seen from the sky.
After completing these two tasks you have an excellent basecamp of progress where you have the entire map to see along with a great start of stamina and heart improvements AND fast travel points all over the world.
@@Elena-tj3so Some of the towers are difficult to reach when you aren't prepared well so it forces you to visit a few shrines before coming back with hearts and stamina. A very good decision imo.
yeah did the same thing and ended up dying a lot trying to do it.
â@@thear1s Yeah some were much harder than others but while exploring you'll likely find the cooking items which increase max stamina or hp so you can still make it even if you don't have many shrines yet. You didn't hear it from me but while those over max hp/stamina cooking items still exist in totk the rate and number at which they spawn has been drastically reduced so you'll be relying more on your skill.
The world design of Breath of the Wild is truly something special
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very nice
THIS is one of the few videos, works ive seen put together that is so important and essential to have having to do with gaming. Youve done a historical acheivement here
Such an awesome video. Keen to try track down more on this lecture btw!
Using mountains to block player's vision to limit the information they can receive at one time is so damn genius. Such a natural and beautiful solution to a complex problem.
As a designer Iâm so glad you uploaded this, especially as my main quest in botw was scaling the highest thing, and eventually when I found eventide island - the furtherest thing. Somehow still fell into the loosely the same narrative as others who had different goals
Beautiful and insightful video as I was wondering exactly this when playing the game!
You're completely insane dude, such a smart thinker, such content quality, impressive
I'm learning game development since yesterday, and your channel covers it all, from game design to actual game development
this reminds me of a rule of thumb I learned from map making in the RPG Maker indie community:
sets of objects arranged in threes like a triangle are better design wise as the mind tends to notice objects arranged like this less often
Also, change shape and size and sometimes direction otherwise it looks tooo uniform and man-made. But funnily enough, sometimes people focus so much on following this advice that every little group of rocks follows size hierarchies and therefore all look the same, like they all have a large, medium, small rock together which actually ends up looking even more artificial. All of these "rules" in art are only guidelines that need to use common sense and intuition too
Man the amount of times I was headed towards a Shiekah tower just to wander off to the nearest shrine after hearing the pulsing sound. Getting excited after finding a new village during my exploration and then taking in the landscape not rushing my adventures. My whole first playthrough I actually never noticed the pathways the map showed I found everything deviating from that path! Such a great game.
the other thing with the triagle thing is that is also makes the terrain look and feel natural. Sure you may be in a large flat area but there is always a hill or mountain in the distance that you can decide to check out.
in Totk the sky islands add far more to this but nintendo still pulled this trick off by having clouds obscure some parts of the ground so you are still not overwhelmed by thet high vantage point. Only certain land marks are only visible from the sky.
Thank you for your effort for bringing back the lectureâ€
The point about encountering distractions is absolutely spot on. I spent the first several days specifically NOT activating the towers and leaving the map blind, simply exploring and cataloguing as much as I could in my own mind. It was not unusual to find myself several distractions deep, course deviating and deviating again until I forgot my original goal only to rediscover it later. BotW has some minor shortcomings, but that feeling of discovery never let me down for the whole ride.
This is probably why I felt like it was designed for people with ADHD.
Botws shortcomings almost entirely have to do with the story and the dungeons imo
I really appreciate creators like you and DYKG presenting Japanese developer comments that never saw an official translation in this format.
I love to just relax and watch your videos. Thanks for all your hard work.
thank you so much for the insight! As someone who is developing a game right now, it's super helpful to understand why certain choices are made.
It worked for me. BotW captured my imagination and curiosity like no video game had in a long time. It was a special experience and the scary thing is that even though it was a 10/10 game, it could get even better. So I'm looking forward to seeing what Tears brings on Friday!
i could give you my opinion on totk without spoiling anything. but i understand if you don't need it
Openwolds are already great for me when landmarks piques players interest, it's already in my list w/ FONV, Outerwilds, RD2, and Elden Ring.
I bought my Switch and BotW in 2020. I would come home from work excited to just play Zelda for the rest of the night. It really has been a long time since a game filled me with excitement and wonder like a kid. I thought I was just getting older. No, I just needed a game made with true passion. And BotW did it without HD realistic graphics or top-of-the-line hardware.
The only thing they failed to do this was with Hestu. Only if you did go from the dueling peaks to kakariko you will incounter him. I didn't, missed him and was stuck for my hole fist play through with just the basic slots.
Wait, he doesn't show up in the forest if you never talk to him on the Kakariko road? That can't be true :O
â@@thisisfyne no he's always there for the entire game until you talk to him.
Hestu hangs out until you progress his quest. He's in an area that is involved in a lot of quests and is pretty hard to miss. Plus, the menu clearly shows room for more inventory space so curious players should actively search in the game or online for ways to expand it. No real reason to miss him for an entire playthrough
@@connormartin1618 I had to look up how to upgrade because over 30 hours in and I still hadn't found him despite going to kakariko many times. I just kept cutting through mountains/teleporting instead of following the main path. That's also how I missed the bandana that's on the road to kakariko from the plateau. Being able to climb anything is both a blessing and a curse, missed so many things I wouldn't have had I just followed the road.
@@connormartin1618 Oooh damn I thought he moved if you missed him, that's kinda bad I guess!
5:30 yup. This simple thing is the absolute core of what I love about BOTW, and now about TOTK
One weird trick that closed-game fans don't want you to know
The weird trick that's been old for over a decade?
I remember early on, maybe around the one-year mark of BotW being out, I'd seen some frequent criticisms on the internet that its overworld was "empty" and "devoid of things to do," but I'd always figured those were the gripes of people that were burning out in the endgame looking for Koroks. After a few repeat playthroughs of my own, and having watched videos like this one, I'm certain that this is just one of the most carefully crafted and filled overworlds of this size in any video game. Even if there's not always something _necessary_ to do at every square mile, there's a lot of unspoken work that went into keeping this game navigable and interesting for dozens of hours. I can only hope Tears is even better.
What was there to do? The same five things copy and pasted over and over again.
â@@i-am-the-slime you can apply that argument to any game
I had a similar thought. I struggle to understand how someone would go through Breath of the Wild and reach the conclusion that the whole is somehow empty-feeling, especially when I've often heard those same people mention at earlier points that they couldn't stop getting distracted by points of interest. You'd have to dismiss earlier experience almost entirely and only judge based on reviewing the world after you've already done most of what the game has to offer.
Certainly, it's not endless content, eventually you'll have seen the bulk of it and not everything can be done repeatedly and stay interesting. But like... that's normal for any game, right? Surely that doesn't diminish the experience one had throughout the playthrough? I get that not everyone engages with a game in the same way, or with all the systems on offer, but I just can't help but find that kind of dismissal strange, the way I often see it expressed.
There was a similar criticism of Elden Ring, people were saying it's not a perfect game (whatever that means) because it lacks post-game/second playthrough content. The fact that people will get 50-70 hours of FUN out of a single piece of media and still complain about it is insane, imagine if people said Empire Strikes Back isn't that great because you can only learn that Darth Vader is Luke's father once.
People love to complain about that but they never contemplate the alternative. Imagine if BOTW Hyrule was densely packed with enemies and points of interest. You do one thing, and within 10 feet there are 6 other things to do. Either you start ignoring all the points of interest in order to make progress, or getting anywhere in Hyrule feels like a slog, like you're cleaning up a county sized mess. Packing it with enemies is even worse. You basically wouldn't be able to move freely, to choose to engage or avoid, it would just be one fight after another. They also never consider what it would do to the interest curve. The time spent getting to the thing you saw in the distance is the low point on the curve that builds anticipation for the thing you're heading toward. If the map were packed with things, either you would forget about your destination in attending to tons of little points of interest, or things would be so close together that there wouldn't be any time to build anticipation, or you would ignore all those minor points of interest, making the map just as 'empty' but more cluttered. It's the same with enemy encampments. There's the build up as you plan out your attack, then the climax as you execute your plan, then things drop back to the baseline again as you either collect loot or flee and lick your wounds. There'd be nowhere to observe and plan in a world teeming with enemies, just a string of fights that would prove exhausting if they were challenging and tedious if they weren't.
In short, that complaint is basically 'Why won't they just make a cake out of frosting'.
There was also a necessary restraint. Unlike Ubisoft open world games, the map reveal from towers is only partial. This kept discovery as the game. In fact, it's an application of Triangle Design.
Thanks for putting in the work, mate.
I got this video from the algorithm but as soon as I saw the effort you put it in the video I had to subscribe, youâre amazing
As someone who is currently writing a master's degree thesis on the japanese game industry, people like you give me the motivation I need
Something I've noticed is that you brought up a lot of good points like going to your objective but then getting distracted by other things. I think Skyrim did a really good job at this when it launched you weren't overwhelmed by stuff to do you would get quest along the way and it would make the player do something else other than the main quest/objective.
I recall Bethesda specifically talking about some of these concepts in Skyrim's world design. These things aren't really new to world design, but they are particularly well-executed in BotW, and it's interesting to hear how Nintendo came to the same conclusions that others had as well.
I do this all the time and am doing it again with TotK, Iâm always like: why not solve this first so I donât have to solve it later? And then only get to my actual objective hours later lmao
Please do one for the Tears of the Kingdom. I feel like all of this has been stepped up a notch.
Excellent analysis. Loved that little detail of having the development team wander through virtual Kyoto as Link.
It really is a great way to design an open world. I just wish the "breadcrumbs" were more interesting or rewarding. I remember once I realized the points of interest were essentially the same handful of things over and over, I was much less incentivized to explore. I still maintain that the whole backstory the king infodumps at the end of the Great Plateau would have been better served as pieces of a story you put together by exploring, kind of like what they did with link's memories.
the exact reason why I still prefer Ocarina and Majora. There are too many repetitive contents in BotW
this exact feeling is why I got to the whatever village after the plataeu and just stopped. Nothing the game presented to me was especially engaging, enemies were not interesting to fight so any camp or enemy were a chore, shrines were a chore after the first 2-3 i did, and moving was slow and frustrating.
I wish everything was much fewer but unique
@@Y1AWSTKMVCP Same
Exactly this, map and exploration is on point, but the actual game beyond this is not great
This week I'm replaying BotW in preparation for the new game, and it's wonderful rediscovering that sense of exploration. Fascinating video, wonderful work as always.
Thank you, that was a great summary!
I was there at CEDEC when they presented this lecture. One keyword that might have missed the media is, they said the world map is a Japanese garden. This sense of discovery, always having something hidden from view, having to move through the area to see more of it, those are concepts of Japanese gardens design. The team, luckily for them being based in Kyoto, did some research on that topic and incorporated it in the map design.
i absolutely love the ascending feature and how you can use it in many places throughout the world. For example: skipping the stairs in Rito village, ascend up a mountain.
Also some places u can find a rock that peaks out of a cliff that u can ascend into! its like the developers placed that rock there for u to ascend, I love it!
The curiosity part is so true đ I remember telling friends I would call them after doing something in the game to just delay it further and further because I got distracted by new things all the time đ
Peak openworld if you get sidetracked lol
Open world, when done right, *rewards the player for exploration.* _Conan Exiles, Elden Ring, Guild Wars 2, Ultima_ series all do this.
In _Elden Ring_ I found it meditative farming mats, exploring the map, and constantly getting into places above my pay grade. Visually the game has so many beautiful scenic locations that it is a great reminder to stop and smell the proverbial flowers along the way.
There is an optimal âWorld Densityâ = interesting things to do in the world / world size. Too large of a world with not enough interaction feels boring. Too small of a world with too many things to do overwhelms the player with the âMini-map Christmas Lightsâ problem.
â@@MichaelPohoreski OMG same/ love it when it, insight intrigue, sparks curiosity, rewards exploration, and overall respects players freedom where everything you do matters thanks to writing.
We've all felt the wonder, awe, and (positive) overload of all the stuff you can see and do, but I don't think anyone has eloquently and expertly broken down and captured the whys and hows of those feelings, until now. Spot on as always, Mark. Looking forward to your insight for Tears of the Kingdom.
You have a very simmilar vocal rythm to Tom Scott haha!
Great video! Thank you for making it : D
Thank you so much for sharing this, it's truly a pleasure to rediscover things from a new perspective aka watch your videos. đ
The concept of triangles fits the zelda series so much because of the tri force being 3 triangles
This game is one whole entity.
I found that oddly satisfying.
No shit sherlock
Zelda fans when they see three points where two lines meet:
Thank you so much for creating this video, I hope it stays up for everyone to see!
Mark this is truly awesome work! thank you for all you give to us!!! :)
This is extremely interesting, thnks for informing us through your meticulously crafted vid. It's always been a question in the back of my head regarding how so many players had such largely varied experiences when play BOTW. Love it when people delve into what makes an amazing thing so amazing.
Fun fact: In BOTW unfinished shrines have birds circling above the area.
No way! I've seen those circling birds so many times and never connected the dots!
So I had a funny experience with moving around the map. Once I had completed the Zora area, I tried to follow the roads to get to the Akkala lab, only to keep hitting dead ends at the edge of the map. So instead I went back to the great plateau, jumped off to the bottom left, and ended up making my way through the map going the exact opposite direction I'm pretty sure I was "supposed to". Having the option to do that made it way less frustrating, and gave me a pretty cool personal journey!
Thanks for working so hard at investigating and bringing this story to us =)
Dang, thatâs dope. Iâm so glad you resurrected this lecture! Thank you!
great stuff Mark. More like this please.
How did you comment 5 minutes before the video came out?
@@xbugz3579 Patrons get early access to all public videos (and exclusive stuff too).
@@xbugz3579 i came from the future
@@FrotteeVDH Iâm gonna believe the other guy cause his explanation was way cooler sorry
another day, another innovation in the video essay genre from Mark đ
been a fan since the first upload, so cool to see how far the channel has come
I spent around 40hours in the game without doing any missions (after leaving the first area). I spent those hours looking for shrines and towers. I played it on my Switch Lite but I want to feel the game on a bigger screen hence I'm planning to buy either V2 or OLED for this. The design for this open world is very rewarding specially if you accidentally found a puzzle to do or those hidden creatures hiding in the environment. I bought the game almost 2 years now and I still just want to go around and explore the world.
Really entertaining and informative, great video
Great video as always, Mark. Thanks!
As a game designer myself, we always call these landmarks "weenies." The term apparently comes from Disneyland designers placing distinct landmarks to attract guests to a location and help orient them in such a large space.
Great video as usual, BUT, not only do I not think that BotW is Nintendo's first open world game, I would argue that the original Legend of Zelda is open world.
I was thinking the same thing. BOTW feels like the first true sequel the original game got.
Amazing video, thanks for making it
Great content! It is nice to see how they actually distribute all things around the map to keep the player interested on the world. I think that in Tears of the Kingdom they increased this and make it better. For the shrines I think that its difficulty increases gradually from the starting point to newer zones but still keeping a good dificulty and can be accomplished from someone that travelled from the center to the edge of the map.