#1 PEX Plumbing Mistake You Don't Want to Make (A vs B)
Vložit
- čas přidán 2. 10. 2023
- PEX plumbing pipe is considered to be one of the greatest plumbing innovations of the past 50 years. But then why are people starting to report leaks, connection faiulures and numerous problems? The answer is easy if you understand what 99% of people dont know about the PEX plumbing in their homes and how to stop this from happening to you. The PEX A vs PEX B debate is the most important info you can know.
Pipe Cutter: amzn.to/45hxBuT
Manual Pex Tool (A): amzn.to/46f5SeO
Nothing in this video was sponsored
Disclaimer:
Due to factors beyond the control of Silver Cymbal, I cannot guarantee against improper use or unauthorized modifications of this information. Silver Cymbal assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. Use this information at your own risk. Silver Cymbal recommends safe practices when working on machines and or with tools seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of Silver Cymbal, no information contained in this video shall create any expressed or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage, or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or from the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not Silver Cymbal. - Jak na to + styl
Thanks for watching please LIKE & SUBSCRIBE if you found this useful. My favorite new pipe cutter: amzn.to/3ZNpFPZ
0:47 If the parts are not compatible, how would they fit? And if they DO fit, why did you write "sadly"? 🧠🔨
Nobody in North America was selling ready made manifolds for PEX-A until I contacted Apollo and asked if valves they showed on their site for PEX-A could be installed in place of the valves on their PEX-B manifolds. I also included the model number of the manifold I was looking at. After a few days Apollo replied, saying they were "just about to" introduce a line of PEX-A manifolds, would I like to buy *the very first one*. Yes, I would. The box it came in was for the same size PEX-B manifold with large labels stuck over the text and images, with appropriate text and images for the PEX-A version.
All they did was take my inquiry about swapping the valves, swapped the valves, created a new set of SKU entries, new box art etc.
It only took someone asking a company willing to listen to customers, why *nobody* sold manifolds equipped to connect PEX-A. At least I didn't have to buy the PEX-B version and the PEX-A valves separately, unscrew the B valves to throw away and screw on the A valves.
That does bring up the interesting possibility of using an Apollo manifold to connect to both A and B pipe. Simply buy an A or B manifold and a few valves for the other type of pipe to swap. The inlet adapters are also interchangeable. Could possibly use metal or PVC for the inlets, if the adapter threads are normal pipe thread.
Apparently until about 3 years ago, PEX-A was intended to mainly be used as a direct replacement for tree and branch metal or PVC plumbing designs, and if you wanted a manifold you'd have to build one from separate fittings, pipe, and valves. Or use two of the simple "log" style PEX-A fittings with one inlet and 2 or more side outlets (like Apollo's EPXM3PT)- but those still required connecting separate valves with short pieces of PEX-A pipe if you wanted a manifold with shutoff valves.
yup- 2012, i ordered a manifold and had to create it with ball valves and "build" it so that my PEX-A system and Maine manifold was done. Now, U can buy your main manifold with built in shut off valves!..lol.. but.. no regrets.. still would have been nice to have the ball valves manifold already built in to it..@@greggv8
Maybe they fit.. poorly?
@@greggv8 The last few manifolds I have purchased came without valves, and you purchased them seperate ly to end up with the configuration you want.
I loved the fact you didn't waste our time dragging out your outstanding 6 min video into a half-hour monstrocity.
Subscribed!!!
OK, Chemist/Physicist here. Also 50+ years home & aircraft building. The way I look at is that PEX A is expended from it's 'natural' size, and will forever be wanting to return to that size, but there is a fitting keeping it from doing so. This means a forever seal. PEX B on the other hand is naturally bigger then the fittings, and is forever trying to expand to leak. The only thing stopping it is the crimp fitting (which I don't trust as lasting forever). PEX A is inherently more stable, reliable, in addition to better flow rate. Oh, great video, I'll be sharing.
Plumber here, I appreciate the work that went into this video. Great information and explanation. For continuity keep all your water distribution piping the same. That being said; Uponor Pex A can be crimped or expanded
Also the claims of flow restriction is complete nonsense in a home with the Government required flow restrictors which are the size of a pinhole.
Except that it shrinks so much that it ends up tearing itself @@Mike-01234
@@Mike-01234😂 you keep the restrictors?
About 5years ago I began repairs to my PVC plumbing using pex line. I assume now it is pex b. Connected with shark bite fittings I have no problems at all. Fast and simple and completely reliable. The shark bite fittings are not cheap.
@@jpjp3873 I suppose if you buy cheap fixtures easy to remove it. Not so easy with expensive brands like Kohler. I have a shower head I got off Amazon cheap chinse brand it was designed so it could be removed.
If you're worried about flow rates with PexB, you can use 3/4." I had to replace some 1/2" copper that the whole house depends on and went this route with great success.
Sure but the same concept applies with PEX-B restricting your 3/4 trunk lines
@@dakotadaily7404 indeed... they make 1" too
Both pex a and pex b appear to have fittings that fit inside the pipe. I don't understand why one would have a better flow rate based on how it's crimped from the outside?
@@raythornburg2791RemindMeLaterFor 3/4"" Pex B pipe the inside diameter of the fittings (which is where the restrictions occur) is 1/2" unlike the fittings for the 1/2" Pex B pipe which is 3/8". Therefore, the restriction created by the 3/4" fittings (which is 1/2") is equal to the 1/2" copper pipe that may already be in your house.
So, the take away is when replacing or adding to existing 1/2" copper pipe, you go one size up for Pex B pipe.
@@raythornburg2791RemindMeLater Pex A pipe expands to secure over the fittings. B pipi never changes in size and the fittings are significantly smaller in diameter.
The best thing about this video is you got right to the point and kept the presentation moving. I appreciate that. Thumbs up!
Love this! Unlike most CZcams videos, this ione is jam-packed with nothing but information-no padding or fillers. Thank you!
Yes, I basically said the same thing and even pointed out this video to a friend as it was very well done.
Wow, I've watched dozens of PEX videos and yet none mentioned this critical difference. Thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
Watched several vids on this pipe, You are the first telling me of more than two types and the need for correct fittings.
You’ve helped America understand something that can be quite per”pex”ing 😂😂
That made me laugh!
😂😂😂😂
If you were a plumber you’d be more per”pex”ed on this guy’s education after the video
You mean "propexing" 😂
Good one
This comment is a correction of the video and not an attempt to knock it. Many plumbers believe what the video says. For any diy person, as long as you use crimp fittings, you’ll be fine regardless of which pipe you use. Pex a and pex b are compatible. The misconception is that pex a is expansion only and pex b is crimp only. However crimp fittings will work on either one. Expansion fittings are for pex a only. They did make pex b expansion (watts or zurn I think) but it never took off so maybe it didn’t work that well. Actually there’s 2 more kinds of pex but you don’t need to know about those unless maybe you’re doing radiant heating. If you don’t trust what I say go to the manufacturers website it’ll say the same thing
I use Zurn for expansion and crimp. I’ve seen to many pinhole leaks on Uponor so I switched
@@brandonwilson2624 is that the zurn pex b expansion. We use heat link oex a expansion but when we used uponor, I never had that problem.
Following
@@joshcowart2446 Zurn pex can do both crimp and expansion. On the red/blue Uponor you’ll get pinhole leaks at the expansion at fittings. Supposedly only an issue with their red/blue pipe but I decided to switch away from it to avoid any issues down the road for my customers
Also note that the plastic fittings have a smaller inside diameter than the brass. The brass fittings will give better flow (closer to the Pex A). If you have a volume or "flow" issue, its most likely flow restricters in your faucet heads.
This video was awesome and presented at the perfect speed. I was wondering about the different PEX options and this was great. Thank You
I’m gonna be adding pex into my existing pex system in a few weeks and I’m SO glad I watched this video first!! Thanks as always
The pacing on this presentation was fast but ABSOLUTELY CLEAR. Super clear speech (which is hard to achieve) plus super clear audio means that we're hearing exactly what you're telling us. Thank you!
And what you're saying makes instant sense, especially when combined with clear images. So, great writing and storyboarding.
I can't believe I'm saying this. I'm just a random person, what do I know? But man you are a great communicator. Plus now I get to go away understanding the PEX systems way better. This will be with me for a lifetime, I'm serious.
Hate it when people speak slowly and use unnecessary words all over the place. This was indeed very concise and time-optimized. Excellent info package.
The pacing really was great.
Great video! No gap in speech and to the point. You are an example to all youtubers sir!
I love no nonsense devoid of cheesy sound tracks approach when dealing with work issues; be it cars, the home, the yard, building outside storage buildings etc.
I am a pex B man myself, I watched a few videos and saw pex A burst before pex B and the idea that you’re stretching the pipe to fit over the connection vs crimping it in place. I put my faith in the crimp. Also, I never ever use the plastic connectors. I only use the metal connectors. Those plastic connectors in my opinion will be the first thing to fail.
I plan on replumbing next year the old house I just bought and your vid has been most welcome, thank you.
There is pex A,B and C.
PEX A is made using the Peroxide, or Engel, method.
PEX B is formed using Silane, or Moisture Cure, method. This is the most common PEX pipe type out there.
PEX C is created using the Electronic Irradiation, or Cold, method of cross-linking.
Roth is Pex C, that pipe is much more chemical free on the inside, a little more stiff, can be used on both drinking water and heating system.
But this Pex you cannot heat up to repair it like you can with feks Sanipex.
Don't forget about "PEX-other", Uponor helioPEX X2. A proprietary type of crosslink method that Uponor developed, similar to "pex-a" but less expensive and not approved for potable use.
And PE-RT , which also recently popped up in Home Depot. @@royc324
My house piping is copper and I've kept it that way thru the years, now i'm even happier that I did.
Good Video. I am currently replacing all the patched up copper in my 1973 Airstream with Pex B. It has worked out good because the small vice-type crimper fits in the small confines I am dealing with. It is definitely NOT the "afternoon" project some people online claim- I have been working at it for a long time and it takes a lot of planning ahead to make the minimal amount of couplings in the really small spaces. The volume restriction in my trailer will not be an issue since there were originally fittings right off the water pump that reduced the copper system to effectively 3/8" anyway. In a house I would definitely step up to 3/4" with Pex B.
Thanks for the awesome breakdown of this. Fast, easy watch and no unnecessary info. Great job.
I spoke with Uponor about what connection types could be used on their PEX A pipe. Yes the expansion fittings allow for the greater flow rate, however you can use crimp rings on Uponor too but it will reduce flow rate as you would use PEX B fittings. I needed the flexibility but did not want to invest in the expansion tool for the little plumbing needed from my project.
The flow restriction for a fraction of an inch is highly overrated. In the real world, it's of no consequence.
@@frequentlycynical642exactly. You'd see no difference at faucet or shower. Pressure drop across piping is negligible as compared to the pressure drop at the faucet aerators, shower head etc
Totally, I've crimped PEX A before when connecting to a PEX B system, it's always been fine.
@@frequentlycynical642 Exactly! Speak with a Certified Plumber, and he will tell You the same thing. Most water systems are limited to begin with. Get real peeps
Have you ever looked at the Government required flow restrictor installed in a shower head, or faucet? It's the size of a pinhole the slightly reduced diameter of pex-b fittings are not going have any affect. You could replace all the 3/4 line with 1/2 in a home still would not max out the flow rate unless you remove the Government mandated flow restrictors.
I've seen older versions of Uponor's PEX A use crimp fittings. Note that just having crimped fittings doesn't automatically mean it is PEX B.
Correct! All Pex is rated for crimp rings, clamps, and sleeves
The ASTM rating for Pex expansion does apply to one Pex B from a particular manufacturer. A, B, and C refer to the cross-linking method
I found that Pex crimp fittings weren’t as snug prior to crimping when using Apollo Pex A pipe. Hard to keep them inserted without using masking tape.
Also hundreds of thousands of houses are now being plumbed with the Zurn pex B system which utilizes expansion fittings which look exactly like pex a.
Super informative. Straight to the point with really valuable information for this experienced DIY'er with zero knowledge of PEX A, but that is what is in the new house we are buying. THANKYOU!
Great job! This was the most concise, organized and articulate video I’ve ever seen.
As a plumber, Pex B is my favorite. It’s quicker, and easier in my opinion. I’ve had more problems with pex A than pex B. Actually I’ve never had an issue with pex B…
I've had teh exact opposite experiance, I've had nothing but issues with B and have switched to A unless I need to, and all new construction is getting A.
I agree. I personally prefer B over A. I’ve retrofitted enough homes from poly to pex and B, if done right, is quicker in my opinion.
What problems have you seen?
As a 24 year plumber I love pex B as well. I get plenty of repipes sold from it. I've seen a lot of pex B fail and flood houses. Plus the pex B warranty.... is zero!!! Pex A uponor with their fittings.... 50 years. That should be rule enough alone. but yes pex B does save the home builder a grand or two.... costs the customer 10k - 20k down the road
I’ve been using per b with evo fittings.
I replumbed my house with pex A. A big benefit is you don't need to get the tool to the connection. You can expand the pipe where convenient then have several seconds to get it to the fitting. It makes a big difference if, for example, you're on a ladder, whole arm in a joist bay, and trying to make the connection without cutting a bigger hole in the ceiling.
The warmer the weather, the faster you have to be, otherwise, you will get fittings stuck half way on. When this happens, I use a razor blade knife and a wood chisel to weaken one side of the connection and then folding it sideways, I split the pipe off the fitting to recover it. It is CRITICAL not to cut or score the central sealing ring.
I replumbed my house with B and didn't have any problem getting into tight spots, at least not with the crimp tool I was using. But I don't doubt the A method is easier, if using the $500 Milwaukee tool.
@@DonTruman
I did buy that tool. I think it was maybe $350 (I have m12 stuff so didn't need the full kit) but point taken - it's a lot of money for something I hopefully never need to use again. I wish I had a way to borrow it instead.
I have the exact opposite thoughts, I found using the crimp was much easier, as I could get the pipe/fittings put together in those tight places, then crimp, not having to rush before the pipe shrinks back together. I also find it much easier to take a crimped connection apart than a pex A connection. My small handheld crimper costs hundreds less and has no battery to keep replacing and can be used at a site with no power. Also, when I put in a spigot on the outside wall, to make it easier, I may put a few feet of pipe on the spigot and push it through the wall, with pex A, I would have to drill a much bigger hole to get the fitting through. Does A have a few advantages? yes, but it also has several disadvantages, just like B, so pick the one that works for you.
@@jamesmyname Home Depot has a tool corral where you can rent various big ticket tools (Like rotary hammers and stuff you really just need for a weekend). Maybe others looking to use Pex-A can check with their local big box stores for rentals.
Still prefer copper. Worked for Mueller Brass and my grandfather was a plumber and I learned a lot from him.
As a plumber of 20+ years, the benefits of pex a are minimal at best. Pex b is also sold at all local supply houses. It does not require any expensive tools to install, can be easily bent to minimize fittings, and the friction loss is really a non issue as long as you size your home runs/crotons properly. Remember, the insides of ALL your fixtures at the end of all your pipe runs, regardless of which pex you choose, is still almost always 3/8" or less. It's a non issue.
PEX B leaks all the time. Stop it.
And ONE 3/8 ID valve is less restrictive than 20 3/8 ID fittings in the line, genius
@woozledog installed correctly, no it doesn't. If it did, I would have been out of a job 10 years ago. And yes, the ID issue is a non-issue, as long as your pipe sizing is correct. I've installed miles of both. There is no noticeable difference at the end of the day.
@mattstiglic well I Love copper. An a most people do. I do mostly repair work until recently, and I guess I'm biased because of these fking diy homeowners, man..
And the problem 90% of the time was not strapping the shit literally anywhere except a valve if you're lucky.
When I do start doing PEX, it's gonna be A though. I mean it's underground rated right?
I'm my house I have Pex B and they didn't use any fittings except for at the fixture. It's a manifold system so every fixture has it's own run from the manifold. It takes up more room, but you reduce the pressure loss from having a bunch of fittings. Plus it's kinda nice to be able to go to my utility room and shut off water to any fixture in the house.
How do you truly live without a toilet flush scalding anyone in the shower? Or the laundry coming on and freezing you? It’s those points that your nervous system really lets you know you’re alive.
@@hugegamer5988 ha ha, sometimes it's the little things in life.
I'm not a home owner.. Just a renter with fantasies of owning my own home and having the responsibilities of having to do this type of work. But I love following your channel and anxiously await each video. You present them in a way that anyone can understand. Your subjects aren't limited to one item either. From lawn care to satellite coverage. You cover it all top to bottom and I like that. Thank you for all the time and effort you put into creating your videos.
You should start looking in how you can become a home owner. Your dreams are great and you can make it a reality. Maybe a self help home, seller financing or get in with a builder, investor or realtor who can help you get into a modest first time home then work your way from there!
Trust, stay a renter if you enjoy anything else. It becomes 50% of your life. Hobbies, activities, sports all take a back burner.
@@PSNDonutDude you're right. Homes come with some chores but for me they are fun and get added to the list if hobbies. However, looking back, I used to hike more and get out more when I was just renting.
@@PSNDonutDudeThere’s no doubt maintenance and upkeep along with upgrading parts of your home keep you broke and busy .
Although it is a major way most build financial stability as you age .
only buy a house when you are easily able to afford one. Don't let the pressure from other ppl force you to buy a home if you are not ready to. Houses have a million expenses, and require mad maintenance. Way too many people buy homes that they have no business buying.
Thank you. Everyone should watch this before starting a job like this. Unbelievably helpful.
I've been swapping out my old PVC piping for PEX B for about 4 years now. Casual replacement of course. Finished it out this week when I fixed the kitchen sink. But whenever there is a problem or an upgrade or modification, the plumbing part is 10 times easier with PEX. It tolerates freezing much better than CPVC and bends enough to make the job a breeze. Just keep a couple Sharkbite connectors around for those tight places the crimp tool wont fit easily. Best plumbing upgrade ever. My propane powered 7gpm instant water heater by Rheem is a close second.
Our local Lowe's sells Pex-A and Pex-B in the same isle. Sometimes it is intermixed in the same bin due to folks not paying attention. When purchasing you must verify the style that is printed on the tubing else you might be making a return trip to the store.
Very important to check for sure but best advice is stuff at Lowe's and home Depot is not quality no matter what anyone tells you. That's why it's there, you have to buy it from a plumbing supply house otherwise you'll get janky pipe and even jankier fittings
They box stores are known for burst fittings. They don't handle the same
There’s more to PEX than just the right connectors. The original Wirsbo system, first taken over by Velta and now part of Uponor is indeed a great pipe system. The ‘memory’ characteristics of this type A PEX is indeed a great asset. However, when one accidentally kinks this pipe and by heating the kinked section bring it back into shape, the molecular netting at that location will absolve. This can become a problem in heating systems where this part of the pipe then becomes diffuse prone. Meaning, because of the molecular netting in the type A PEX, it will prevent diffuse entering of oxygen into the pipe under normal conditions. Diffuse entering of oxygen can cause slurry and slime build up in hydronic heating systems.
On the use of elbows and fittings, in my former practice as a plumber, I installed many systems and brands of plastic pipe. Always with one preferred installation design prerogative in mind; to eliminate as much fittings as possible. With a central divider block it is possible to hook up any sanitary appendage, or for heating, radiators, floor and wall sections or groups without any extra connection than the obvious necessary ‘outlet’ where a tap, or radiator tap will need to mounted. That significantly decreases the chance of leaks for any installation system.
Have been reading about the recent developments and complaints about PEX systems in general. Especially on the dezincification issues occurring with chlorinated water. Don’t exactly know what is available in the US, but for Europe, the main range of appendages available to make connections to taps or radiator taps don’t consist of brass, but are made out of bronze, which simply don’t have the dezincification issue. So, may that be a tip to check for.
Cheerio
As a DIYer this information is GOLD!!! Thank you!!!
Appreciate you clearing that up, was one of those things in the back of my head that wouldn’t resolve itself.
6 minutes for a ton of helpful tips I never knew! Thanks, I like this content. It seemed like a lot of sponsored content lately, this is a nice change of pace.
Perfect timing on the video. I got a leak from the master bathroom dripping to the kitchen ceiling. Saves me the headache when I go to HD to buy Pex
He is absolutely right and telling the truth about almost everything ......pexA is not as cold freeze resistant as PEX b because the plastic crimps and those plastic connectors become very brittle after about 10 to 15 years and they will fail that is a trick we plumbers always used ain't no money in making it at last forever you make your money on the call back so always use brass crimps and connectors and don't let a lot of sunlight hit the pipe it is very UV light degradable I love pex best thing ever I'm a retired plumber and I was a plumber for 42 yrs
Thanks ! Great video. We remodel old buildings up north and avoid pex completely. Reason: mice have eaten the pex, creating major water damage. Anyone else had this issue ?
FYI...Beyond potable water, I have been using Pex A in process applications for harsh chemicals and compressed air for about 5 years with very little trouble. It would have been good to show the central sealing ring on the Pex A so that those fittings can be very easily identified. Another very significant advantage is that the the fittings in Pex A can be turned like a swivel without affecting the seal if done without pressure applied. In a process environment, with Pex A to NPT fittings I have joints that have been unscrewed dozens of times and then reassembled without leaks. Lastly, since Pex A is commonly expanded and it remembers to how to shrink, it is common for it to survive freeze thaw cycles.
Hi diverbob8 I read your reply all of it and one thing was missing was " What"type clamping with pex are you using pigeon type squeeze ring or pinch ring, I want use it on air line and you say it was great but guess Shark bite push together won't hold up with 125+ psi would you please respond back to me thanks Donald
@@DonaldRak-ku6biI wouldn't use pex for 125 psi there's a reason we install prv in houses.
I think over 100 psi or so requires an additional clamp on pex a as I recall. Not just the expansion ring .
Excellent!! Straight to the point without any BS. Thanks you!!
Direct, informative, short and on point!..well done my friend, well done.😊
So much information so fast I had to play it back twice! Great video!
I would say the biggest point here that wasn’t covered is that you can use clamp style fittings on Pex A. So, if you’re comfortable with the minor potential for more leaching with Pex A, and can source it easily enough, there is no downside to using that as it will work with either expansion fittings or clamp fittings.
why are you acting like a contract team paid to do the plumbing on a home cares one iota? theyll be long gone while the poison accumulates in the homeowner and have no significant consequences for a decade.
@@swell07_ I'm not acting like anything. I'm just pointing out that other than the theoretical potential for Pex A to leach a little bit more in certain scenarios, there really isn't a mechanical downside to using it.
Secondly, there isn't any data that says it ISN'T safe to use, so there isn't a reason that a contractor wouldn't use Pex A.
@@everyisnaadisfabricated3784 I haven't seen any data or evidence that suggests that.
@@swell07_ My plumbing company uses Pex A, and we care a lot about the final product many years down the line. Houses that I have installed pex in are still under warranty for over 10 years and we haven't had any issues. You don't know what you're talking about.
@@everyisnaadisfabricated3784 This is completely false. If installed and secured properly out of sunlight it will take many decades to deteriorate and split. You don't know what you're talking about.
Thanks! Being forced to replumb house doing some research. This really helped!
Great video to explain the differences in the PEX piping! Thanks so much for posting it.
Pex B is perfectly fine for a residential house. It has plenty of flow rate. Most supply lines to residential fixtures are 3/8" so they get reduced down anyway. I've been plumbing 22 years and have probably installed pex B, 18 of those years. Never had a callback because the pex B I installed reduced the flow. Everything is low flow now anyway. Gotta save water and all.
PEX A has issues if you have chloramine in your water supply. It's a gas some water utilities treat the water with. It makes Pex A very brittle.
What’s your experience with shark bite fittings, if any?
Except for shower heads.
@@BDogg2023😂
@@BDogg2023 Put Shark Bite fittings on my house 5 years ago. Very simple and works great. Spoke with a plumber who says that's all he used because, even though it's more expensive, the labor time time saved makes it well worth it.
@@ramjetrth I did my whole rental house myself with shark bite 7 years ago. It reminds me of tinker toys when I was a kid. Was just wondering about a professional opinion.
Great video. In addition to some other comments about the effects of chemicals like chlorine, I've heard some older pex wasn't uv stabilized. So you have to be careful about the build process or removing wall/ceiling sheathing materials for too long. The National Association of Home Builders has some good information on their site, suggesting the UV resistant pex is still only tested for between 0-6 months of exposure (and that 1 month of exposure in the south in the summer is more intense than 1 month in the north).
Pex B isn't UV resistant. It's for direct burial. So don't leave your spools laying around in the sunlight. Pex A is used in homes for that reason.
All you have to do is put rolls in a black trash bag and cover pipes on construction site with trash bags also, I built my house in 2001 with wirsbo plumbing and floor heating and haven’t had one issue and floor heat is awesome, nice even heat and quiet
Nice explanation.
Not a plumber but doing a partial repipe job from copper to PEX-A (F1960) in an old RV. Have been researching and trying to understand PEX plumbing for years, got WIRSBO certified about 15 years ago and still believe it to be the best overall. However there are at least four other downsides not mentioned: 1) You cannot 'dry fit' PEX-A (because the fittings won't slide into pipe without expansion) and 2) You can't use the expansion tool on fittings that are too close together without doing both ends of the pipe at the same time (it will break the previous fitting otherwise). 3) It is harder to 'undo' mistakes (you have to carefully cut the ring off without nicking the ring + heat gun to soften and loosen the pipe. 4) Most PEX-A fittings have to be ordered online and fittings are fewer than PEX-B. Putting the first three downsides of F1960 (PEX-A) pipe together, I can understand why Home Depot stocks the Pex-B stuff, but I don't understand why they don't explain better the need for transition fittings.
FWIW, there is definitely a learning curve in Pex-A assembly, especially when there are tight space tolerances such as an RV. I'm very happy with the result but there were times I wished for the ring crimpers and PEX-B simplicity which probablyl wouldn't have even worked in my particular application.
Lowes has an impressive array of Pex A fittings now, but be certain to examine the carefully for the protruding central ring on the A fittings as opposed to a series of 3 or so identical rings on the B fittings.
So, if you were building a new sigle story home, would you ask the plumbing contractor to use A, or B?
@@brianpiersol9412 If you are asking me (non-plumber) I would definitely ask for Pex A mainly because of peace of mind. Done correctly, Pex B Crimp connections are fine, but I'd always worry without doing Go/No Go testing. Whereas Pex A is hard to do wrong - - if you got it on fully, it will shrink down snug and never loosen or corrode. Plus, there's the advantage of full flow fittings and extra flexibility. The only downsides to A are the expensive tool (not an issue if your contractor is a professional) and higher cost of pipe but the cheaper fittings might more than compensate. If I ever needed to splice in B type fittings I would try to find transition fittings and a cheap hand tool if I didn't have the Pex A tools but since I do, that's not an issue either.
There may be other factors I don't have enough experience to recognize, such as longevity of the Pex A or resistance to chlorine, but from what I know, Pex A was the original, started in Europe more than 40 years ago, and if there were problems we would know about them by now. The "X" in Pex stands for cross-linked (PolyEthylene) and IIRC the method used to create the cross linking varies as well, and I was more impressed with the Uponor method than the other which involved x-ray radiation as I recall -- it's been a while since researching, but my intuition was that radiation would be less even. Probably a non-issue however. Just my OCD.
Pex a has much higher failure rate! As a contractor I can tell you that pex b will not fail. Yes it takes a longer to install and costs a bit more but is overall the safer choice.
Contractors like using pex because of the bottom line. It’s cheaper!
Also install time on pex A is much faster but as stated, pex A will fail at some point.
@@mauisuzuki7857 That's interesting because it's the opposite of what I have heard. How does Pex A fail? I can't see any logical reason why it would given the nearly fool proof design. Pex B (Crimp connectors) seem much more likely to fail if not installed correctly. But I am not a contractor so interested in your experience.
Wow, nice video! I had no idea there were 2 types of Pex. We had our entire house re-piped about 5 years ago and they definitely used Pex A. After seeing your video I am glad to see that Pex A does not suffer from the friction loss that comes with the smaller diameter fittings. As a former fire fighter that studied friction loss in pipes, this could be a really big deal in a house that has lower than optimal water pressure from the city connection.
There's 3 types.
The city connection should be better presser. Besides you don’t need to much pressure.
It’s not friction loss, that’s the drag in the pipe, it’s the size of the passage through the fitting. Smaller hole = less volume. Pressure won’t be effected either just the volume.
If Rodent gets in your home chew right through PEX pipe like nothing flood entire house. Lots of videos on YT about it where done 100k in damage people come home to find water running out under the front door, or garage.
It’s actually viscosity losses, not friction. Friction tends to be almost the same independent of velocity whereas viscosity tends to increase as the square of velocity. This means going from a 3” to a 2” opening is more than twice as restrictive, not 1.5x.
2012-2014 i biult my own home and invested into PEX A wirsbo- only, with manifolds and purchased the Milwalkee Pex expander- expensive.. part were very hard to find here in Maine, had to order it all through Souz City- but due to my climate issues and concerns PEX A has been the best and easiest. I have had NO - ZERO- busts cuts bursts, anything wrong. love it. easiest to work with after the initial investment with the expansion tool. best ever- great video- great points!
Awesome straight forward explanation…. super useful for those of us that are plumbing challenged! 😂
Just what I was looking for...without looking. Your vid popped up out of the blue at the time I am looking to install a line to an outside spigot. Well done.
THANK YOU! I had no idea that there were two different Pex systems. You have saved me some money and headaches!
I used PEX-B for installing a new tub/shower in a place that didn't have one before, and I used 3/4" instead of 1/2" largely because of the flow restrictions I could see introduced by PEX-B connectors. But for that long of a run I would have used 3/4" anyway especially since it also feeds a sink and toilet. Even with connector restrictions, the 3/4" is still bigger than 1/2". I also made it so the minimum number of connections would be used. In fact there's none - no elbows, etc - until the PEX gets to behind the shower/tub, and the first is a 3/4" to double-1/2" "bull-nose" T connector. One of the 1/2" outlets goes to the tub/shower, the other to the sink and toilet. No problems with flow or pressure.
you are wise and most correct to use B and use 3/4 supply throughout only 1/2 to item
My kitchen sink is at the other end of the house and takes forever to get hot water there. Now you may think this is crazy, and others plumbers have said this won't work, but I am going to run 3/8 pex to the sink. I have already cut a 50 ft piece, hooked it to a faucet to check pressure/flow and it works great. So now instead of 45 seconds and a gallon of wasted water, it takes 11 seconds and 1 quart of wasted water! I am also going to run 3/8 to both bathroom sinks for the same quickness and savings! 3/8 will not work for a tub or washing machine very well, but it works great for my shower as I run a 1 GPM showerhead. I only put 3/8 on the hot side.
@@stevem1081 That's one option, especially if you have a way to conceal it when in place. You could also run a single 3/8" or even 1/4" to the farthest point and then install a small circulating pump. Possibly on a timer, if you like. Then you'd have good hot water quickly available everywhere. But that might be more practical for like a hotel or something where the runs are much longer.
İt was unnecessary. Now you have to charge a larger pipe volume with hot water before you see hot water coming out of faucet etc.. meaning you will wait longer.
@@urbanturbine I know that, but it's not a long run and it was worth it to not lose flow and pressure to 2 sinks, a tub/shower, and a toilet.
The concern about flow through PEX B is overstated. Most sink faucets, showers, etc., are reduced down to 1/4 inch or so. Even on a 1/2 run, you will only have issues with multiple fixtures if you run them simultaneously. Properly sizing the pipe is the critical consideration. Use the correct tools, and fittings, ensure the crimp ring is placed correctly for PEX B and use your go-no-go gauge on ever crimp. When done correctly, either system works very well.
I have a bathroom sink that I used a lot of 90’s and it’s 1/2 inch …
It’s fine …. I yet water flow is reduced. The 90’s and the reduction..
Also you are the faucets are reduced ….
That is probably true xx
But if you have many reductions down the line ids all gong to add up..
@@mycaddigo yes, but we're the 90s needed? They make a radius curve bracket that goes on the outside of the pex and is a pipe hanger. Stubouts are also a radius curve.
The beauty of PEX is that you can do a manifold system where the only crimps are at the primary distribution point and the stub. You can have zero joints in the walls and floors with a carefully planned installation.
@@mycaddigo also, a 90 is always a reduction because of the sharp turn.
@@ericapelz260 yup. I then discovered the brace that make a 90 with out a fitting. Have you sent those ?
@@mycaddigo Yep, used plenty of them.
Very informative. I didn’t know this before. Thanks
stumbled upon your video. I didn't even know there was a difference. I have PEX B in my current and previous houses. Never had a problem with it and since the big box stores carry B, it's easy to find parts. Thanks
A vs B has nothing to do with expansion and crimping. It is the manufacturing process. Zurn is Pex B that is expandable and crimpable. Each pipe has its own rating for being able to expand or crimp and you need to look at the specs to find out which you can use.
Correct, and A can be crimped. The dimensions of both are identical. The fittings are different diameter.
5:20
I have NEVER heard a plumber state that he gives a shit about flow rate unless he's talking about work flow rate. 😂
Wow, the most concise and thorough explanation I’m such a short time. Thank you for your expertise. 😊
I have a 70 year old cabin with a mix of steel, copper & galvanized pipe. Been considering PEX, so you’ve provided additional info I need to make the jump. Thank you
Good idea old plumbing going to have lead solder and depending on the PH of the water could leach it out into your water. This is what happened in Flint, Michigan. Lead was leeching into the water. If water is good quality low THD it will leech or pull from the pipes.
The other drawback to Pex is rodents. They love the plastic and chewing pex to get a nice drink. As much as copper has its disadvantages, rodents don’t tend to chew through it.
I asked a professional plumber about PEX A around a year ago, he told me there is/was a lawsuit against the manufacturers of PEX A sealing rings because they were splitting and causing leaks. Can only imagine how big a PITA a leak in a wall would be.
that's poly B not pex A
@@TRUE_GR1T no, uponor did have issues with defective pex.
The pipe behind the sealing ring ruptures. It's from over expansion, typically. Some installers use the expansion tool to stretch it a little too much, and the pipe is thinning as it stretches, so it has a much lower burst rate as the unstretched pipe. The failure usually happens where the stretched pipe is transitioning to the unstretched pipe.
This happens when cross linked polyethylene is expanded in cold conditions. On a molecular level a warm polly will stretch while a cold polyethylene will tear. The expansion "ring" for a 1/2" pipe is just a chunk 3/4 pipe iirc, it's been a few years since I installed wirsbo..
Anyways. Cold without using heat pack or a heat gun will result in leaks and splitting .
Red seal plumber of 30+ years .
@@MrDmadness Good to know.
Awesome video to learn an old dog the new piping issues and stay out of trouble! Thank you!
Outstanding information that I needed to know. Thanks!
From my understanding, you can use pex b fittings on pex a, but you can't expand pex b to use pex a fittings.
This is true. I can't recall what documentation I saw it on, but we do it all the time in the field
What are you girls smoking? Pex-b fittings are like 30% smaller than pex-a
lol we might be smoking, but we can still figure this out. Yes, the fittings are a different size because the pex a pipe is stretched onto pex a fittings, so the pex a fittings are larger, but the pipe is the same size when both are not stretched. At least close enough in size so that pex a can be crimped down onto a pex b fitting.
Pex a crimps just fine when I have to transition id do it any day over a shark bite fitting
Some pex b can use expansion fittings. Sioux chief power pex is one of them . I use it and love it. You have to check the pex labeling to determine what it’s compatibility is. Some apollo coils I’ve gotten from HD also have labeling for expansion fittings. If it lists F1960 on the pex it can use expansion fittings.
Good video. But it should also be noted that PEX-A should never be exposed to sunlight. Keep it in the dark and it will last forever. But it breaks down fairly quickly if exposed to sunlight.
Thanks for the video. I need to fix my outside water faucet, and now I know that I need to check the connection to see which type I have in order to buy the correct tool. Thanks again.
I tried to figure this out 5 years ago doing a remodel, I used all pex-B (there was no existing pet-A) but this info would have been helpful. I went with B because I didn’t have the expensive expander.
Great information. I've never heard of PEX A vs B. I built my house 14 years ago, and the plumbing supply store here in Colorado offered me coils of PEX, brass or black nylon fittings, stainless rings, pex cutter, and the Zurn crimp tool (I chose not to go with "Shark Bites" for a couple of reasons). I haven't had any issues with it, and I help people with the $100 tool, as long as they get compatible rings. .....It's obvious to see the reduced size with the fittings. Lower flow compared to copper or even CPVC is part of the tradeoff, with it being more obvious with 1/2" pipe. I always thought it was because of pipe wall thickness, since these three are sized by outside diameter. Copper (L and N) is thin, so 1/2" pipe offers more flow than same sized PEX. What I've done since is keep runs 3/4" and reduce just before the fixture shutoff, and it seems to have helped. I almost always used copper when I lived in the south, but that PEX is allegedly a bit more flexible to resist breakage in some frozen pipe situations (I've since run across a couple of burst PEX pipes), it's what I use now. Anyway, thanks for the video- it just popped up on the play list.
It is definitely the fittings that give different flow between Pex A and Pex B however, copper, galvanized, and cpvc does in fact have a slightly wider inner diameter. Not enough to notice in any situation other than tub spouts. If you install a tub and shower valve using pex for the spout, as you are running water through the spout, it will work it's way up the shower riser and come dripping out of the head. You can use pex for the shower riser, but the spout should always be ran in the others mentioned before, unless you don't personally mind a little drip from the head while filling your bath tub. As for overall volume/pressure, it all depends on the sizing of pipes ran to and through the house. Something as simple as upgrading your yard line to a bigger size can make a big difference in the volume and pressure inside your home. Even if you have a water meter with a 3/4" feed, running a 1" or 1 1/4" yard line can improve the volume and pressure inside your home
@@guhv1386, I have 1" line run from my well pump to the bladder (pressure) tank, and a 30-50PSI switch. From there, it's a short 3/4" run to the tankless water heater, then to fixtures. I experience lower water pressure using regular sized fittings and pipe. It's something about the PEX, either the thicker walls of the pipe thus extended resistance to flow, or the fittings.
Good, useful, information delivered in a timely manner. Nicely done. Thank you.
Thanks for the video! I am using Pex A in my van.
My house was made with Pex B so when I did some upgrades I used the same Pex B (1" feeder for the house). Ryobi makes a wonderful crimper tool that works well. If you are doing on akward run it is also nice to be able to dry fit a little more with Pex B and the cold weather performance is a little better (I also like using brass instead of platic fittings).
There is also Pex C but that is an odd ball.
Those cinch rings are what I recommend to diy as well. I wouldnt recommend someone spend almost $200 on several tools they’ll use for one job. With the cinch rings, one tool works for all sizes and Home Depot sells them for like $50.
Always thought on well water, you use plastic fittings. Something about acid in water??
@@williammurray8060that depends on your water. Im on a well and my water is not any more acidic then city tap. But its a crap shoot with well.
My well water has a PH of 8 so it is basic@@williammurray8060
My well water just has scale, which manifests itself only once it hits air.@@williammurray8060
It really depends on your Lowe’s and Home Depot. Here in the FL panhandle, every other Big box has Pex A. As a DIYer, I switched to A a couple years ago. Much easier and faster. I was able to pick up the deWalt expansion tool on sale pretty cheap. I think harbor freight also has one.
I concur. Pex A availability must be a regional thing, where I live (VA) both are equally available. The manual expansion tool is about $60 and works just fine. I got mine at Harbor Freight.
My Home Depot just started carrying Pex A in addition to the Pex B that they’ve stocked for years.
Wow. Very helpful indeed. I would have never guessed this was an issue. Thanks for sharing. You’ve saved me a lot of headaches!
What a great video.
Well explained, needed to see this video 9 months ago.
Great on the video.
I became a do-it-yourself homeowner plumber a few months ago and did my research into the A vs B question. "A" sounded like better quality (more flexible, more resistant to freezing, better flow rate) but decided on B because: tool is much cheaper and easier to use (the manual "A" tool looks like a pain to use, especially in tight quarters, and it's not worth $500 for just a few homeowner projects) and much better parts availability at retail hardware stores.
The manual Pex A expansion tool is only about $60 and not hard to use at all. As far as availability of the tubing and fittings, it must be a regional thing because where I live both A and B are about equally available. And I'm not sure what you mean about tight quarters - you simply expand the tube where it's convenient, and you've got several seconds to bend and push it into place.
@@JohnVJay Ive read your better off getting the ratcheting version of the manual tool ($150). It replicates the power tool version better for less chance of leaking.
@@srobeck77 Maybe, but I don't really see what the difference is, if you use the cheaper one properly (rotating the head manually between squeezes, just like the ratcheting version does automatically). I haven't had any leaks so far, knock on wood.
I think it's a matter of how much you want to pay for convenience.
@@JohnVJay Im not sure if rotating is better not either having not owned one. But I do know, you are supposed to spin it around if you only have the manual type per the instructions.
@@srobeck77 Yeah, the idea is that if you don't rotate the head (which is done automatically for you in the more expensive and powered versions) the gaps between the "blades" of the expansion head will create ridges in the plastic which may lead to leakage. Rotating the head assures that you get a smooth stretching of the plastic all the way around.
My belief is that the cheaper manual versions do the same thing as the more expensive versions, but use more muscle power and you have to rotate manually. It's performing the same mechanical operation. I've had great success with the $60 tool, but 1) I'm not a professional, 2) I don't do hundreds of these joins in a month, and 3) it seems there are a variety of opinions.
Shoot, I've elected to always use Pex-A because of the greater diameter of the joins and the crosslinking of the plastic, but plenty of people swear that Pex-B is just as good.
Magical video, keep it up. 😘
Thank you
Awesome, succinct, well thought out presentation - Thank YOU...
Awesome insight. Thanks for the lesson. Very helpful
To your point about Milwaukee's tool versus a manual one, remember that the manual one does not automatically rotate, so you need to turn the tool after you squeeze open a spot to ensure even expansion all the way around the pipe. I had one situation where I could not turn the tool much putting in a refrigerator water line, and sure as heck - that's the one that leaked. I had to borrow a Milwaukee expander and re-do that fitting.
There are a couple of manual pex-a expansion tools with auto-rotating heads. They are a bump up in price from the non-rotating ones but are still less than the powered tools. I have not tried them.
@@portertaylor945 Seems someone would make money with that as an add-on to an impact tool.
Great video as always.
Personally I’ve never used pex, only copper. Never a leak. My issue with pex is I can’t see if there’s no seal, and water should never contact plastic. In 50 years, they’ll be saying it’s good for you. I mean 2 years.
Pex is better than old houses with lead plumbing components, at least.
Copper is still the gold standard everything is compared to. It's a tried-and-true method that's been in use for decades. Using the correct solder and flux, it's safe for drinking water. The risk for all domestic water is the public part of the water system, which may have questionable components. (Think Flint, Michigan)
@@steeplecabit's not though. Copper has its use and applications, but hard water eats pinholes in it, chlorine embrittles it, and it oxidizes. Been a plumber over 30 years, pex is usually a better product, it also doesn't water hammer like copper does. In a display area of a mechanical room I use copper to flex my craft and machine like solder joints, but that's only in very very expensive houses on commercial jobs where it's spec'd. Respectfully intended.
@@MrDmadness - I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I've been working with copper at least as long as you and haven't seen those problems. In fact, the city here routinely uses copper lines from the main to meters in buildings. Granted we're in a dry climate so soil moisture isn't much of an issue, but we have moderately hard water. As for water hammer, that's routinely handled by code. Personally I would be less comfortable knowing my lines were regularly subject to pressure shocks that routinely stretched them to absorb water hammer. But as always, your mileage may vary.
@@steeplecab i hear ya, commercial installations use copper and i install a lot of it, but for housee pex is faster and imo just as good. Water source deoending copper may outlast pex, but its not been long enpugh to determine for sure. With regards to the water hammer, pex doesnt stretch it deflects, copper cannot, but you are correct that a water hammer arrestor is going to be a better solution regardless. Respectfully intended :)
Liked and subscribed because to a homeowner, your video/ info is both important and very well done! Thank you and I Hope that you keep going!
Very informative and useful. Thanks for sharing this.
This explains everything I needed to know! Just built a house and plumbers used PEX A. Nice to know the fittings don't actually restrict flow.
When using pex B and not wanting to restrict flow, you upsize the pipe
great video
Much appreciated
I am learned now! Thank you!
Thank you, Thank you, THANK YOU!!! Awesome video!!!
My house was built in 2001 and uses Pex A. One thing that never gets mentioned is you should avoid Pex within about 15 feet of the outlet of the water heater because the high heat will cause it to become brittle over time. Mine developed a pinhole leak near the water heater (the stub out of the wall was copper, but transitioned to Pex right as it 90'd up just inside the wall, and the leak was about a foot away from that transition), and in researching the issue, I found that this issue was somewhat common. My plumber did a temp repair and sent a section of the failed tubing to Uponor, who responded by paying to have all of the 3/4" hot tubing in my entire home replaced, including all the drywall and paint repair. Of course, we made sure to use copper for the first 15 feet or so out of the water heater.
That's annoying, but surprisingly upstanding of the company.
put in a mixing valve.
18-24” is the code requirement
The heat does nothing. As pex "a" or "b" are used in radiant heating. And there are no issues.
But the water is still going to be hot if it’s on the outlet side of the WH no?
And the great thing about copper plumbing, is it doesn't matter what type you have the fittings are universal because they fit on the OUTSIDE of the pipe and the outside diameter is the same across copper regardless of how thick the walls are. I also think the idea of flow rate is really overblown and not that big of an issue in a vast majority of cases.
Here's a weird copper pipe factoid: The HVAC industry uses the same copper tubing as plumbing, but the measure and spec by the OD! 3/4" pipe for plumbers is the same as 7/8" for the AC guy!
Agree on flow rates etc. Now if one were to stay in a house for the rest of their lives, I would also use type L copper. Type M, naturally is meant for water but man, that L alloy would be the right choice for me. Chances are one of my kids gets this house. (Because we all know what hard water does to soft, squishy "convenient" water tubing...)
Type M is normally used for heating pipe. Any time you run domestic it’s usually best to go with type L.
That's like saying that using the right wire gauge is overblown. Sure, an undersized pipe isn't going to burn your house down, but if you actually think it doesn't matter you shouldn't be touching this stuff.
Very educational. Thanks!
Thanks alot this really cleared up some questions
Good video and great comments. ( I built my house myself in 1987 and used good old "Poly B"
with copper crimping ring connections and guess what: it has not broken once or leaked a single drop! )
The contractor that did my plumbing used cinch type clamps for the baseboard heating connection and one of the clamps just fractured, resulting in a leak that resulted in a buckled hardwood floor and sheetrock ceiling and wall damage below. Don't know if it was bad installation or a faulty clamp, but I can't see that ever happening with copper crimp rings. The cinch clamps are easier to install especially in limited access areas, but I'm wary of their reliability having seen this failure first-hand.
Poly B is the grandpa, I've never seen a problem with the pipe itself in all my years in the trade
@@bigglilwayne7050 how about the cinch clamps? is that a common failure point?
@@dubmob151
Cinch clamps are not only the best option, but they're by far the most versatile, too... For instance, say you come across a faulty aluminum 1/2 tee w/aluminum crimp ring on Poly B... Rather than using 3 PB/Pex transition adapters and a standard 1/2 Pex tee with copper crimp rings, all you need is the standard 1/2" pex tee and 3 cinch clamps.... I've done hundreds of them and never had the first leak or call back
@@bigglilwayne7050 it didn't seem like the cinch clamps would be a likely failure point, but I've seen it firsthand. The way they're constructed makes it less durable than a copper crimp ring, where I can't imagine one of those ever failing the same way.
Naturally the cinch type clamps are much easier to install in tight places, so that may be the only option, so there's no avoiding them.
Came across this just surfing...Learned something important, I didn't know and I use Pex...Thanks for the heads up and a very well done video..
I normally don't give thumbs up but that video was short and informative so you got one. I've just been working on my RV and now I know it has Pex B. Thanks.
In my mind the biggest advantage to Pex-A is the increased crosslinking. This means it never stops trying to return to its original size. So the pipe clamps on to the fitting forever. With pex -B you only get the clamp that the ring gives. Once you clamp it its done. I have seen B leak but never had a A fitting leak.
As a residential builder I once had a drip on an A plug at the end of a line. I turned off the water source and opened a tap to stop the pressure and used a heat gun on the fitting to restart the ultimate memory compression process and then turned the water back on to find the connection to now be leak free.
Originally there were issues with the ribs on the expansion tools because you need to rotate the expander a bit each expansion or you get a smooth spot that leaks. All the subsequent expanders auto-rotate the head so the ridges are all around the pipe .
Also you need to treat the fitting carefully to not notch a ridge in the fitting.