The Story of My Monitor Placement and Mix Position
Vložit
- čas přidán 14. 11. 2017
- I got my studio monitor isolation pads at www.soundassured.com
Coupon Code = SAVEMONEY
I wanted to break down how my studio monitor placement and mix position has changed over the years.
For a long time, I mixed with the monitors fairly close to the center of the desk, and by the computer screen. This caused a couple of different issues.
The mid-low frequencies in the room sounding "Boxy" to me, and it always made the monitors sound muddy.
For more go to: www.creativesoundlab.tv
Ryan, thanks so much for featuring out monitor pads on your AWESOME channel! Much appreciated! Glad you were able to find a better position for your monitors! ... We do hear often that our foam is a bit softer than Auralex, and we do that on purpose. We tested different formulas and found that the sound absorbing qualities of our softer foam actually absorbs more sound than the firmer foam. We have occasionally cut firm foam for isolation pads, but only for large pads that mount super heavy speakers on special projects. Thanks again!
I like to sit back with a nice wide setting. I like to hear some of the room. Me and a buddy where talking about this very thing. We have many years as FOH! I think this plays a big part in my placement.
Great video everything you said was 100% correct especially about having two positions to work from one for mixing and one for tracking excellent advice
Another good vid man thanks! I could use some advice if you wouldn't mind. I have a bedroom studio where I mostly record electric guitar and vocals. It's 16 feet in length, 8.7 feet in width and 8.9 feet in height. I'm trying to figure out where best to place my monitors, I know it's best to be place them in front of the short walls, however on one short wall there is a wardrobe covering the entire length of the room making it impractical to place my desk and monitors in front of. And the other short wall is similar in design to your studio, with one monitor directly in front of a wall and the other a further distance from the wall or glass in your case (basically I have another small section in my room going further back in length than the rest of the room). But if I set up my monitors on this short wall, one would be directly in front of the wall and the other would be 3.5 feet away from the wall. I record and mix in the same room, in terms of acoustic for monitor placement is it ok to place my monitors like which would be similar to your set up, or would this create phase issues with the sounds from the wall behind the monitors bouncing back off each other at different times because of the differences in length. I really hope that made sense and if you were to get back to me on this issue and offer your opinion I would truly appreciate it. I'm a big fan of your channel for years and you've taught me more about sound engineering than I learned while studying the topic academically. All the best and thank you in advance!
have you thought of getting mid fields such as old school passive ones to help with the different mix and recording positions? ive been playing around with it and i end up using my near fields for recording and mid fields for mixing and AB between the 2 in final stages. food for thought?
How happy are you with these Focals? Still using them? Thinking about moving on from NS10 land after 15 years 😬
Have you ever thought of trying a single mix cube in the middle as well? I’ve heard they have a huge impact on your mixes because they’re so unforgiving. I haven’t had a chance to try mine yet, but I’ll be looking forward to using it
The sitting back is soooo true! I noticed that as well today. Was looking for the reason and found this video :P
Nice insight.
I use custom-built monitors centered on 2" tweets at 42" equilateral sides, 2 - 6" on the inside and 2 - 4" midrange on the outside. These are on the second-level of my studio desk (again custom-built) 42" from the floor at the tweeters center. I've only been mixing for a couple years. I am first and foremost a musician, but for a custom setup, I get really good sound. My philosophy is .. if I can gain enough knowledge and practice to make a decent mix on a homemade setup, then when I finally do have the money to go professional, and I learn the monitors, my mixing will be all that much more on-point. Thanks for the video!
I've noticed the same thing in my studio and find it kind of annoying. I'm sitting in the sweet spot and move back a foot to hear all this extra low end. Have you found any way around this besides just moving back a foot or two.
The mix position besides, the desk and where you sit in the room which is said to be at least 2/3 of the way from the back wall needs to be balanced. What is meant by this is whatever is on the left should be the same on the right. I noticed the wall behind your mixer is not the same on either side. You have a sound absorber on the left and then glass in the center onto the right.
In order for the speakers to work and create a phantom image where you can discreetly hear the center of say the vocals in the center hanging there, the area at the mix position needs to be exactly the same on either side. It would also help to have a reinforced wall if your mixer is close to a wall. Something that contains the sound. And then add some absorbers, bass traps at that spot for your speakers to work better if needs be. But whatever is on the left should mirror what is on the right. Some speakers have EQ settings that compensate for being too close to a wall like the Mackie HR824 while some speakers are better at producing that phantom image like JBL LSR's. But what will really create the phantom image is the proper constructed mix area behind the mixer and monitors. Imagine our ears if we had just a hole and no ear flaps how our hearing would be different. Or if one ear flap was human and the other elephant shaped. Something must contain the sound at least this is the way most sentient beings are built. Think of the Hollywood bowl or how an amphitheater is constructed to beam sound to the listener. The bowl where the audience sits works with the stage clam shell to contain the sound and focus it towards the listener.
Also even though the 'standard' became the NS10 in the past, the tweeter is said to be more normal if it is on top of the woofer not the side. Reason humans are built with their mouths on top not on their sides, so we are used to hearing mid to high frequencies from a head that sits on top of a torso. Of course monitors are "learned" by constant use and referencing some well recorded tracks, so if one hears good tracks through one's monitors, the ear learns to interpret the sounds in the room even if the tweeters are on the side, wherein the "studio" version of the NS10's turned into side mounted tweeters away from the original first discovery of the NS10 speaker model's with the tweeters on top. And with the woofer on the inside of the monitor's position there could be a tendency for there to be a "power alley" of bass over emphasis. Perhaps mounting the speakers if you like them on their side with the tweeters on the inside would relieve that power ally and present a better stereo image with less woofer emphasis.
The foam might isolate some of the mid low frequencies from doing acoustic work on the mixer desk helping not only the stereo imaging but the phantom imaging as well. But deep bass will course right through the foam and amplify itself through the mixer furniture. Having the monitors floating or individually isolated from the mixing furniture might be a better idea to get a less affected boundary effect rather than having them coupled to any mono planed vibrating shelf.
Depending on your mixer furniture size and space, choosing between near fields and mid fields might get your total mix position to work together. If you like near-fields, then a smaller or closer mixer furniture might help one to hear near fields and be in that golden triangle. If your mixer furniture is large then mid fields might work best to get that mix to your ears.
Having a monitor screen presents problems if it is in front of the speakers and would also benefit from spreading out the monitor speakers to minimize the screen being there. But then if your speakers are near-fields, you might lose some intimacy with them being far apart. This is where mid fields come in.
We struggle with our studios and the above info is just some ideas to get us closer to effectively using our gear. After that it is the engineer's magic that defines the mix. But the mix position should be one that works together with the monitors, to get there.
Interesting advice on monitor placement. You do have to consider how the speakers were designed to be used. Not all are designed to be placed horizontally. I have used pads to for my monitors and also noticed better low end and overall response. I use them on top of my console and have different placements marked for comparison. Thanks again.
Awesome! Good you noticed a change too. I sure did.
Right now I’m using KRK 8400s for recording and mixing in my little apartment set up. I’d like to experiment with a pair KRK 5s. The ceilings in my apartment are really tall. Would this affect sound in any way I️ should be aware of?
High ceilings are great. Low ceilings can great problems and I have a ton of treatment above my desk for that reason. My monitors are the Focal Solo6 and I have the low end rolled off on them. For whatever reason, that works the best for what I need to hear to make better mixes. KRKs are very different from mine, and to be honest, I would have a hard time with them.
We've got Focal Solo6's as well. I too have noticed that as I back away from the console they sound deeper. I'd guess that's partially due to the size and shape of our control room. We are using Primacoustic RX series iso pads. They were a little pricey, but compared to the investment we made on the Focals, I felt like it was worth it. Too, as Robby Fraticeli suggested below, having a B set of monitors has helped us in a big way. We're using the Drawmer CMC2, which provides superior quality for an entry level monitor controller. It's equipped with A - B and Sub monitor control.
I hadn't heard of the CMC2 until now for some reason. I'll need to check that one out next, as I'm going to use my little mackie controller for it's mute button when I'm over by the rack and need to talk in the mic.
Have you tried mixing with only one speaker? I fell in love with sound of Yamaha HS5 but can only afford one :(
I actually just was talking about that idea. I really liked how smooth the hs5 sounded. And if you only could get one then it wouldn’t be the end of the world. It’ll help you to EQ better and get the levels of the vocals right.
Monitor sideways? Does it not add phasing?
I noticed a small detail that could improve even more the quality of your sound... behind your monitors I see metal mounting brackets.... remove them! ... it is a free moving part and it can easilly resonnate in the 300 & 500 and add some crappy frequencies to your mix! Good video... monitor positioning and acoustic treatment is a bare minimum if you want to truly enjoy pure listening experience!
I have the same pair of Focals. I see so many people placing monitors with the tweeters facing inward... I can't stand it! I also found sitting back from the Solo6's grants that low end you miss while sitting super close. #TweetersOut
Yeah, I remember the manual gives three examples of how to orient them.
I unfortunately mix out of my bedroom. My computer chair immediately back onto my bed, and my monitors are about 6-8" from the brick wall... not ideal at all. I've been mixing out of my room for about 6-7 years though, so I've kinda gotten used to the deficiencies of the room.
When I mix though, I sit back on my bed to hear what the low end is doing, and it makes a huge difference like you say! The low end just opens up a whole lot, and I can make a more informed decision when I mix. I also have some monitor foam to decouple my monitors from the desk. Maybe it's voodoo, but for the price of that foam, I figured it was worth a shot.
I recently watched a video seminar from Bobby Owsinski talking about acoustic treatment and monitor positions. It's about 2 hours long, worth a watch if you haven't done so already.
Ok I'll have to go check that out!
Creative Sound Lab it's called 'how to improve your room for $150' or something like that.
If that were my room, I'd slide the console out a bit so it works ergonomically with the better listening position further back. Then put the speakers on their own stands behind the console. That will keep you in the "sweet spot" when listening normally, and also eliminate early reflections from the desk.
Yeah, I thought about that too. The problem is my desk is kinda high. I also considered moving the desk to the middle of the room too.
I'd have to see more detail about the dimensions & shape of your room to comment more specifically. I have 2 articles about speaker placement on my blog, you can read part 1 here: www.gikacoustics.com/room-setup-speaker-placement-201-part-one/
I definitely recommend some good isolation pads to anyone who wants to get better mixes! No matter your listening position, no matter how good your monitors are, their cabinet and your desk or shelves are always going to have their own resonant frequencies, near the low end of the spectrum, and the pads help to muffle those frequencies. Even with cheaper monitors, maybe even more-so with them than higher end monitors, good isolation pads make a world of difference. I'm also a fan of mixing from a distance as well - just as micing a guitar amp up close lowers the frequency range compared to giving the mic a little bit of space, our ears do a similar thing, and it's noticable. I also find it's more suitable to making a final mix because it's a good middle ground as far as approximating the general listening experiences at the consumer level, if that makes sense.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I don't know exactly the different with the iso pads, but I did hear it for sure. The angle down also helped due to the shape of the iso pads. The distance element is huge and I'm amazed how great it sounds.
Its the dimensions of the pads that counts, they do not absorb frequencies noticeably, I provided a link to a test with Ethan Winner in my earlier comment.
That’s a good thing though, it means you could more or less make your own or buy a cheap pair like he did. But audio companies are still hyping this woo woo and continues to blow people on expensive bs.
If you want the speakers in the horizontal position, you buy speakers designed for that. It's best to leave the speakers in the position they were designed for.
Why don't you invest in a second pair, or a separate set of monitors for mixing, so that you can have their position set up differently for the different applications and not have to move them all the time. This also allows for a different reference when mixing.
Yeah, I was JUST thinking of this before this comment came in.
Imo the best position is having the speakers at 38% distance of the room in a 60 degree triangle between the listener and the speakers!
I disagree, the "38 percent rule" is a guideline first articulated by Wes Lachot, but it describes the listening position not the speaker position.
By "isopad", you mean, blocks of foam 😂