This Moment Almost Derailed The Final Season of The Office
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- čas přidán 27. 02. 2022
- There was a time when fans of The Office thought one of the worst things during the show's run was the departure of the beloved Michael Scott played by Steve Carrell. That was until the final season of The Office. When the writers almost broke the hearts of their fan base. Luckily this wasn't the case, and The Office gave fans exactly what they wanted in the end.
#TheOffice #PamAndJim #Nerdstalgic
Written by Chris Teregis
Edited by David Sadvari - Zábava
What are your thoughts on the infamous Brian Wittle?
CZcams channel Mulverine just posted a 30 min long interview with Brent Forrester, who more or less had the reins of the show by season 9 by his own accord. The guy points out that Greg Daniels had taken some distance from the show by the last season, being absorbed in other works, which would explain the huge cliff that the writing fell from.
This and the absolute destruction of Andy Bernard are the worst parts of the office in the final season.
It was like the writers hated us just like HIMYM writers doing the finale
As someone who never seen a full Office show. Hearing all this in passing, I get where the director was going with this concept. I just think this was the wrong season to do it in. This character should have been better introduced in season 1. And had his moments time in and out as the seasons went on. In comparison "How I met your mother" did this better, with your similar factors but handled differently.
How do I feel about him? I instinctively tried to dislike this video because he was in it.
We know nothing about him so we don't know why he feels such a connection to Pam and vice versa, we have no idea their actual history. Every scene Brian is in his portrayed as this cartoonishly perfect man. The buff supermodel looking dude who is 100% supportive and compassionate, he's arguably one of the most exaggerated and unrelatable characters in the show. I have no problem with the breaking of the fourth wall, it's a mockumentary, it's arguably an issue that the fourth wall isn't broken more. However, some random perfect dude coming in to swoop into a relationship that we've seen built over years of chemistry and history is some cringe self-insert typical romance type writing.
The entire final season almost derailed the final season. Jesus, what they did to Andy..
I really feel bad for him
Just like that 70’s show
what did they do to Andy?
@@LuigiTheItalian Turned him from a well meaning likable dork to an creep who dated & dumped the girl half his age before running off to become a COMPLTE raging ahole and end up as a villain. It was terrible.
@@BlazingOwnager In a bit of fairness, she was more than half his age (plus they were both consenting adults). I also like how unlikable he became, but only because of his redemption. To me at least, it felt like they tore him down to build him up
I just thought it was really goofy and forced. Like all of a sudden there has been this hunky boom guy the whole time who is also secretly in love with Pam but he’s never been mentioned even once? That’s total clown shoes. Kelly Kapoor would have never shut up about the “cute mic guy” and we all know it. 😂
It didn't make any sense at all. The writers clearly didn't know what to do in the ninth season and they weren't for an extremely far fetched idea.
The last two seasons weren't written well and alot of people like to pretend that it went well
You are totally right about that. Kelly would have walked in everyday dressed to the tee and flirting with him.
@@ak8990 Exactly! Remember how she acted around Charles? Kelly couldn’t contain herself the second a hot man was in that office 😂
Clown shoes? Is your IQ below 70?
Andy floats in a lake for 12 hours, and the camera crew does nothing. Michael is going to jump off a building, and nothing. Andy runs into Dwight with a car, and crickets.
They didnt just break the rules of the show, the completely dumped on so many of the shows other iconic moments, and re-contextualized them in an awful way. And it was such a ham-fisted, transparent, cringey, tatcless attenpt to throw a wrench in Jim and Pam’s relationship.
I completely agree. Why couldn't Dwight, who has done it before and is literally by her side step in instead? It would have made a conflict that already rang as forced and hollow ring a little more true to what we were accustomed to.
best comment.
It really was. When he was first shown I immediately thought that he may cause trouble for them. Thankfully the writers didn't do that.
And people wonder why Pam is such a disliked character, the rules are apparently able to break for her, not just once but twice. I don’t necessarily blame her as much as I do the writers. Not to mention, why couldn’t it have been Dwight that not only comforted Pam after her argument with Jim, but been the one to possibly save her life by stopping Frank? He’s came to her rescue before as he’s shown to be a good friend to her. I think that would’ve been a lot more palatable for audiences. Season 9 is an absolute abomination, with the exception of the last 3 episodes
@@kellijones6481 I'm sorry but your comment is a bit misguided. The rukes didn't break just for Pam, whatever your personal opinions on the character may be. The rukes were broken because the writers (real people and the ones writing all of the mess of the later seasons) forgot what made the series great in the first place: the unexpected charm of normal, unremarkable individuals and their boring paper compant job.
The rules "broke" for almost of all the major characters, not just for Pam. It's unfair to put the blame of this mess on her, when it was a creative decision made by a team of writers.
In those last two seasons I was in disbelief at how it almost felt like they were trying to tear apart Jim and Pam's relationship for absolutely no sensical reason. It felt so random and i just remember thinking "NOOOOO WHAT ARE THEY DOING". Worst idea of the whole show
Every idea in the final seasons were like that. They tried to recreate the concept with Andy and Erin, which was creepy af, then they made Andy suddenly become just the worst.
Yeah, John called it twice it seems
They tried to have Jim cheat with Kathy during s8, but John Krasinski said that was too out of character and the fans would hate it. Yes, yes we would have
Agreed it felt like unnecessary drama.
Seasons 8 and 9 desperately tried to recapture that Jim/Pam "Will they, won't they" magic from season 2. Suddenly, everyone had a will-they-wont-they storyline-even Jim and Pam again.
@@mechengr1731 Hearing how many times John Krasinski saved the show makes me realize why he's gone on to a successful career behind the camera since.
Imagine a boom mic operator telling an entire crew to stop filming and having the actual crew do it. . .
It makes more sense if there was a Brian type character, it would be the cameraman or producer that the characters talk to. Since during interviews, they are clearly looking and responding to the cameraman.
To be fair, if a crew member is interfering they would likely think it's a waste to be filming something they won't be airing.
@beep boop Many reality stars have talked about tricks they've used when they wanted people to stop filming them. You're correct that a crew is supposed to keep shooting, but plenty of times they decide to go find something usable instead of wasting footage on something unlikely to air.
But he can! Boom operator, cameraman and director are the only three figures on set that can stop a take!
A big reason for why they would stop filming is that they rooted for Jim and Pam. Filming Pam and Brian having a moment right after Jim and Pam had a big fight could interfere with the relationship they wanted to portray
And that wasn't the first attempt. If I recall correctly, they tried it first with Cathy fliring with Jim and John Krasinski vehemently refusing to act on such a script.
Well him cheating wouldnt have made the Office worse. The show always played with viewers expectations and Jim cheating would put an end to the fairytale Aspect but also function as a catalyst into a still deep and loving relationship with problems. Look at the numbers. People cheat all the time no matter how happy the relationship is.
F.e. Jim lied constantly to Karen about his feelings for Pam. A real douche behaviour. Cheating wouldnt be that far from that. Krasinskiy didnt want to do it because he wanted Jim to be kind of a hero but The Office never needed that and worked better with shades of grey characters.
And right after that little arc, she disappeared from the show completely haha
@@listrahtes lmfao
@@purplewine7362 there were a lot of destruktive developments in the show like making Kevin retarded, killing of every character arc Andy had,making Andy as Boss a copycat of Michael...etc. But Jim cheating imo would have destroyed nothing.
Jim turned down Katie, Karen, and Cathy because Pam is his true love. It just would have been dumb to have them break up at the end.
I think Parks and Rec is one of the better if not best examples of a 'Will they Won't they' couple. Once Leslie and Ben are together, they're together. After Ben resigns, there's no giant misunderstandings or any real threats to their marriage. Instead of creating an impractical couple for the sake of jokes, they played off of the actual affection of each character.
"Will they won't they" worked OK for its time, but I hope to see it phase out.
I think "will they won't they" can still work like the first 3 seasons of the Office but once they are together don't pull a season 9 of the office. They were great in seasons 4-8 like why did they think we wanted to see Jim being a dick and Pam potentially having an affair with the microphone guy behind the scenes. I felt once Micheal left season 8 was just ok cause we at least had Jim and Pam who were awesome so why split them up. I still like the concept of "will they won't they" but I do feel they need to change the formula a bit
Man parks and rec might even top the office for me. I loved the office until Michael left, parks was more consistent.
Brooklyn Nine-Nine, also created by P&R people, repeated that and it worked greatly.
The thing about Jim and Pam is that there misunderstandings were completely unrealistic they took an idea that could be realistic (marital problems) but really forced it in
agreed
Brian was an unnecessary addition to the show. For 8 seasons they pretty much just ignored that the show was supposed to be a documentary that was supposed to eventually air, then suddenly in the final season they're like "we better show people that this is a documentary that's supposed to eventually air so let's break that fourth wall even more." Looking back now he's so cringey with his constantly swooping in to save Pam. Not once did the camera crew ever break onto the screen during the first 8 seasons. Should have just not brought Brian in at all. A professional documentary crew wouldn't have let any of that stuff make it to air and surely wouldn't have let Pam actually visit a former employee on camera. Also I hated Jim when he got mad like that. Kinda almost ruined the character completely.
@Mcheetah getting stressed and taking it out on someone one time doesn't make you douchebag, it makes you a human.. for me it humanised Jim a little bit
The documentary twist completely changed the tone of the show. Went from a show about office life to a show about filming a documentary.
@@andrewwyatt8445 It wasn't a twist. It was part of the show from the beginning. There were scenes where Jan, on the phone, would ask Michael if they were being filmed and he'd lie. In the Valentine's day episode, after Michael lies to David that there was no relationship to save her job, she kisses him and then turns and realizes the camera filmed it.
Where the documentary broke down is when they followed Jim to Stamford (and Athlead) or The Michael Scott Paper Company. It's like they knew they'd come back, which the documentary crew wouldn't.
@Mcheetah No comment just like the handsome(-ish) remark lol
oh dude, definitely. especially the stuff with jim (and dwight and stanley and kevin and andy and…) it’s just so obvious they changed the characters to contrive situations and keep the show running, it’s laughably bad towards the end and i will always stand by that
I think the Brian defense scene would have been perfect if Brian was not introduced first. If he would have intervened seemingly out-of-nowhere I think it would have been a really powerful move. Like all of a sudden "Woah, I forgot that there's supposed to be a crew filming this whole time!" Instead, they immediately introduce Brian as someone the audience is not supposed to like. Make a character look good first, then introduce the controversy. It makes the definitive lines between good and bad blurred and makes for better audience intrigue and engagement.
That's exactly what I was thinking
Under rated comment
This is very true
I’ve been looking for this comment thank you!
Yes!!!!
The Office’s final season stumbled so that How I Met Your Mother could completely ignore the warning and run face first into the “don’t break up the main couple” wall two different ways in one episode
lmaooo
Me and my bro have watched himym for years and we never shipped robin and barney imo they're the cringiest couple in tv history in my opinion and I was actually very happy with the finale although I do agree that they could have done it over the course of a few episodes and not all at once in the very last episode, I was still happy with the final outcome. I shipped barney more with quinn and even with PATRICE than I ever did with robin.
It's why I watch up to season 7 finale and then I'm done
HIMYM has the worst final season ever
You know, the fact that they tried two different times to have Jim and Pam cheat on one another really shows that they lost sight of what made the Office special. Its the day and the life of a Paper company. The work itself is not exciting, but the people breathe life into it. Sure, the people might be wacky sometimes.
Sometimes those stories are boring, but they can be exciting.
"People never go out of business"
The show isn’t about a paper company at all. It’s about the people that work at the company. The every day life of the average person. Not the average small paper company. You missed the whole point of the show
@@codyherman2977 reread what i said
I did say it was about the people who worked at the paper company
I just phrased it differently
And the characters most of the time aren't the ones wacky and out of control. It's the situations that they're put and how they respond is what the heart of the show was.
The office after Michael was never really the same
Said it before, will say it again: The Office should have ended on the Jim & Pam wedding episode.
It was the perfect place to end the series and it never really got better after that. It'd been literally the perfect series if they had just cut it there.
@@BlazingOwnager agreed.
In fact, I would fo as far as to say that the show as a whole just didn't have great episodes after that. Even Michael and Holly finally getting together and getting engaged in Season 7 weren't great episodes. I think many will say Michael's last episode was great, but I would say that it was tasteful at best. And even then, we had to slog through the whole DeAngelo miniseries to get there.
Maybe a few here and there were great (I would say the finale and a couple at the end of season 9 - a disaster of a season that for its act together in the 8th inning). But it really lost its magic once Jim and Pam got married.
@@BlazingOwnager that is a good point, but I think (despite the fact that this would sacrifice a lot of good episodes) the perfect wrap up could’ve have even been the end of season 3. Jim and Pam finally ‘get together’, the breakup arc with Dwight and Angela hasn’t happened, and the idiot boss, who as the first few seasons go on gets more likeable ends up back groveling towards Jan. And the Ryan who started off as an intern shoots all the way up to corporate status in the end.
@@haleyt7518 It wouldn't have been the worst place to end it for sure, but like you said, some real good gas in the tank yet. I can't remember very much post-wedding, it all became a blur of writers that had no idea how to continue after that :(
@@BlazingOwnager Partly agreed. But only as long as the, "Threat Level Midnight" episode was worked in prior to the wedding
Not only did Brian breaking the 5th wall after Jim and Pam's fight make things weird, but it also messed up a great scene. Season 9 had been a disaster up to that point, and the ending with Pam and Jim fighting actually looked like it was going to leave the episode on a note of drama and tension that really made you want to see where it went next.
...and then the guy with the boom mic comes out of nowhere.
Yep it’s turned what would have been a favorite scene of mine into one of the worst.
Jims fighting with Pam was so out of character tho. Dude was a complete fucking shithead all season.
How did it break the 5th wall? I don’t remember what happened.
Or did you mean the 4th wall? I know breaking the 5th is a thing too but I’m not sure if you meant that.
It was such a realistic fight, it was great until dumbass popped in.
Honestly it would have been cool for someone like Angela or Dwight to step up in that moment, have them, Pam's actual friends, shoo away the cameras.
The funny thing is the way these plots ended up both Jim & Pam were given "will they cheat?" episodes and both did not, so their back pedaling at least sort of accidentally made these aborted plots kinda wholesome.
my gosh, yes
shshsgd yes. they accidentally showed how true devotion and loyalty works.
The writers were strongly considering that jim and pam divorce. After years of establishing them as a couple they wanted to throw all that out the window
The point is deep.
Pam did it to the old boyfriend, but not to Jim
Thats crazy I've always said Jim and Dwight's rivalry reminds me of Buggs and Daffy Duck lol 😆
Yeah, more like reluctant buddies who get into feuds often
1212
Yes! Same!
I thought it was more of Elmer Fudd and Buggs lol
Haha I never thought of it that way. I love it
Pam and Jim relationship problems were actually really well done and engaging for the most part, viewers could relate with both of them, but Bryan was absolutely unnecessary, it was way too much.
I totally agree... the first time I watched it, I was so sad and didnt like that they were fighting, but rewatching it again (yes I rewatched it again), I realise that this is real, in reality, even "perfect" relationships have a rough patch.
edit: oh and as for the boomer guy.... I'm not so sure why they needed to add him to the mix. Things were rocky between Pam and Jim already, they could've escalated that situation without adding boomer guy
@@nontomabaso5525 He seemed young for a Boomer.
I agree! I like the realistic problems they were having, and the peak behind the idealized version of the Jim and Pam relationship, but I don't think Brian's character really added anything to the show. If he was established before, like several seasons previous, then I think it might have worked to add him in as a character, but without that background, he just comes out of nowhere.
The title implies that the final season isn’t already so bad it should be rendered non-canon lmao.
In seriousness though, the season as a whole just really doesn’t work. Andy’s fall from grace is so rushed, making Eren look like she is leaving him during a hard time rather than picking the better man. By the same token, Pete was just boring (notably, after Eren and Pete get together, they barely interact). Angela hiring an assassin to kill Oscar is just way out of line with anything shown previously.
I think season 8 was the worst season. Season 9 had more ideas, while season 8 without Michael was a directionless mess. Robert California wasn't funny, Andy as a boss didn't work, the "Angela's husband is gay and everyone knows but her" was below the show, as were the jokes about pregnant Pam's weight, etc. It felt like they had very few ideas and overdid the ones they had. Season 9 actually felt kind of fresh in comparison.
@@WillowJordan1979 I mean, sure it was fresh. But that doesn't mean it was good.
I saw another comment talking about Pete, and completely forgot who the hell he was, and finally remembered, yeah he was boring as fuck.
The introduction of Brian Wittle was the worst moment in the show's history, imo, for one reason: it broke a rule that the show had established.
It's bizarre that throughout the years, the camera guys are both omnipresent and invisible. The characters are aware that they're being filmed/interviewed, and there are multiple angles of every character which implies that there's always an enormous camera crew around, and yet you never see them in the background or even hear them. When Roy tries to assault Jim, they don't get involved, and are seemingly unaffected by the bear spray that blinds all of the characters. When Michael hits Meredith with his car, the cameraman silently pans to Meredith and back to Michael without even a gasp of surprise.
But we accept all of that because that's a rule established by the show: the cameras are ever-present but never involved. It was jarring to see Brian physically defend Pam from the warehouse worker not because it wasn't realistic, but because it shattered the illusion that the crew isn't actually physically present. And if the crew is actually physically present, how come they're never seen/heard until now, why hasn't anyone stepped-in before, and why was the warehouse worker so blindsided?
Incredibly well said
They're not physically unaffected; there's that famous example when Packer destroys Michael's carpet and they film an interview from outside Michael's office. But they are sociopaths, which is why they leave Andy floating in a lake for 12 hours.
Also, Brian looks like the love child of Paul Rudd and Bryan Cranston
Or the one time the all drive into the lake lol
So they were going to have Pam cheat on her husband after one bad fight, have them break up, then turn Jim into a simp and accept his cheating wife back and move on like nothing happened?
Glad they didn’t decide to go with that.
She did not cheat. Jim was closer to cheating then she ever was
@@magzjay2458 true. But apparently everybody hates pam so it doesn't matter ig
She was engaged when she and Jim started out, and he was her emotional support. She and Jim have difficulty, and it’s another guy offering emotional support. Would have made it look like this was Pam’s “thing.”
@@Mimi-py8mf my brother in christ pam cheated on roy like 3 times ofc we hate her
@@magzjay2458 when did Jim cheat
You can't tell viewers that Jim and Pam are soulmates and once they got together have very little disagreement between them to having them almost divorce three years after marriage.
It's also crazy looking back just how many characters cheat on each other in The Office. It would have been a giant slap in the face to the Jim and Pam journey to have that happen to them too.
Yeah imo it wasnt having the 5th wall break that bothered me, I’d always wanted them to do something like that cuz it always seemed too magical to believe the camera crew really never interacted with the office, it was suddenly disrupting the jimpam pillar of the show in a way that felt like pure shock value, it was way too unbelievable. I didnt even like jimpam as a ship, always found them boring, but being told actually theyre on the brink of a divorce now just felt violating, felt like being told your parents are suddenly divorcing after 30 years of a blissful marriage lmao. Almost as ridiculous as the himym finale.
Well said
agreed completely, great parallel with the awesome HIMYM finale as well
YES I HATE JIM AND PAM TOO MOSTLY
@@ctorre really? I loved them
why@@ctorre
It's really interesting that the show kept going to this well before pulling away from it. It happened with Rich Sommer's character in season 5, and with Lindsey Broad's character in season 8 (in addition to the boom operator). I think, for all of the successful story elements that Greg Daniels and the writing staff were able to develop before Jim and Pam got together, they had a really hard time writing relationship stories for them. I feel like the most successful late Office episodes are the ones where Jim and Pam's relationship isn't a focal point, but their characters are still paired up.
All that being said, I did like that the audience did eventually see the documentary crew--it felt natural that the workers and the camera crew would develop relationships. I just wish the writers had found different things to do with that character once he was introduced.
Yeah, I do like that the documentary finally aired, and I think it makes sense for the film crew to actually be their friends. I just hate how they tried to push this storyline of infidelity twice now
Introducing Brian as an interloper into Jim and Pam's marriage was a cynical, contrived move and it's a good thing Krasinski was able to talk them out of it. Pam leaving in a huff after finding out about lack of privacy in her conversation with Brian was a smart growing potential breaker.
I just have to say, What We Do In The Shadows (the series) does the camera crew stuff pretty well. They're usually in the background but they do get referenced on occasion (and occasionally have to run for their lives - sometimes not making it). They do it JUST enough it's always hilarious whenever it comes up.
I think I dislike Pete more than Brian. The show really wanted you to like Pete, treating him like a Jim replacement, while making Andy his Dwight
Brian's actions, though cringy, felt way more real and motivated to me than almost anything done by Pete, Andy, or Erin in the final season.
@@caleblatreille8224 Yeah, for example, there's a scene where Pete encourages Pam to berate a client so she can get her first complaint card.
They should've just kept Andy and Erin separate at the end of Season 8, while working to have Pete and Erin get together through other means in Season 9.
Like Pete could've said that he's not looking to date after the end of a long term relationship, or vice versa, since we saw everything that happened with Erin and Andy
Arguably I felt like one of the biggest flaws of the Office is that it's set up as a mockumentary but often violates the rules and believably of the documentary aspect to lean back into traditional tv story-telling. It feels like the Office is only a mockumentary as a writing crutch to have characters literally talk to the camera and look at the camera but served no other purpose. That said, I still think Brian was against the soul of the show. Jim was supposed to be the everyman, he's not supposed to be remarkable in any way, and neither is pam. It was refreshing to see a romance where the characters didn't feel exaggerated or idealized, but simply normal. Then Brian, this supermodel looking dude swoops in out of nowhere and he does all the corny over the top ideal man things like always understanding and being 100% supportive, being buff to take down any dudes who threaten the girl, etc etc. Even if Brian was introduced much earlier, I still wouldn't at all have liked his romance with Pam, because Jim and Pams personal connections seem so natural and humble.
The original "The Office" did a great job of being a mockumentary. Everything was well thought out, we never saw things the camera crew wasn't privy to. What annoyed me the most in the US version was the birth of Cece, where supposedly the camera crew was allowed in Jim and Pam's room 24/7. They even had to share the room with another couple. There's no way Jim and Pam would have allowed that, and the hospital would probably have rules about it as well.
Michael and Dwight just being okay with the camera following them to purchase drugs to frame a co worker, the delivery guys charging 500 dollars for fake weed with cameras and sound guys 5 feet from them. Lol. They really didn’t even take it into consideration at some points I don’t think.
@@MrRyan-wu4jx tbf Michael and Dwight aren’t exactly the most socially conscious characters.
It's interesting on the office ladies podcast (I know it's getting mixed reviews but I love it) Jenna talked about the writers wanting there to be infidelity between Jim and Pam and they put their foot down to say no dont do that. And I'm glad they did
Why is the podcast getting mixed reviews?
It was unfortunate that the writers went halfway down the path of infidelity, but couldn’t reach any sort of dramatic payoff. In the end it was the worst of both worlds imo.
The podcast is amazing. You can tell Jenna and Angela are real fans of the show and they put a lot of effort in researching and watching every episode. Contrast that to other podcasts where the actors clearly haven't seen their show in 10 years and knows absolutely nothing about the episodes and don't put any effort in research, and it's obvious they're just treating the podcast as a cash cow.
last i checked, the podcast has been getting some pretty positive reviews
It should probably also be said, on top of all of that, that Pam actually having an affair like that would just… destroy her characters image. Because she was already started as woman who is having emotional affair with coworker when she was engaged. If she had actually cheated, it just justify hate for her character and make it seem like she didn’t grow at all over the show. Her character arc would be a circle.
Just rewatching these scenes makes me feel so uncomfortable. As I was cheated on at a rather young age, it's definitely messed me up for life around the subject of cheating. So, to watch our fan favorite couple almost split due to cheating, it did not sit right with me at all.
Also, as a side point, the point of too much change is definitely valid, prime example being Andy. I don't know why they did this, but they unwrote all of Andy's progression as a character, reverted his anger management, reverted his creepy affiliation to his college, reverted his progress with Erin. It was a true example of character assassination. So, to have Pam and Jim split due to cheating on top of these rather unpleasant changes, truly, it would have destroyed the show.
Blame Ed Helms dedication to those awful Hangover movies. Every time you see Andy disappear for long periods of time, it's because Ed Helms is taping the Hangover trilogy. With so little time for Andy to appear in The Office, the only option the show had for Andy was to revert.
@@ThatFanBoyGuy There were so many other ways they could have handled that that didn't involve a character reversion. Maybe he really does save the day for his family, for example.
@@ThatFanBoyGuy the movies are funny and we’re undoubtedly making him more money than the office would’ve. Don’t get mad at him for getting his bag
Everytime I feel sad or overwhelmed by life I watch 1 episode from The Office.
I have seen the entire series for more than 7 times by now, and I'm starting my 8th. It is truly a place of comfort, laughter and joy for a very large amount of people.
One of the issues is just how the JIm/Pam love story has been constructed as a narrative to this point. Something that made the American office great and unique from its predecessor is it had the opportunity to have a slow burn romance over the course of multiple seasons. The audience gets to witness all these little moments which lead to Jim/Pam's relationship. Narratively, the story has indicated to the audience, "Not only are we going to show you a love story, we're going to build it very carefully, bit by bit, over a long time."
So to try to present relationship-ending difficulties over the course of a 6 episode or so span doesn't work. It doesn't match with how the narrative around Jim and Pam was constructed in the first place. Maybe if there was an equally slow-burn dissolve to the relationship as there was a build, it might be convincing. But because it was jammed in there, the stakes never felt too high and nothing felt at risk. Just manipulative.
This angle was completely unnecessary and badly timed. If they ever wanted to put a speed bump in Jim & Pam's marriage, they should have done it a couple of seasons earlier, and even then, at least get someone who looks like the real Brian Whittle, and not someone who obviously looks too hollywood-ish to be a boom operator in Scranton. This is one of the rare times Greg Daniels made a bad call on The Office (another is the way they handled Andy's character arc that season), and it almost derailed the legacy of the show, thank goodness for John Krasinski stepping up to combat it.
I've been a diehard fan of the office from episode 1 back in 2005, and I absolutely hated this story line. I was just graduating college and my parents were going through a painful divorce when this aired. I remember feeling physically sick watching those episodes since it felt like I couldn't escape divorce and its horrors in real life or even in my favorite show. Glad they re-thought splitting Jim and Pam, and still wish they didn't go that route to begin with
I didn't mind the Brian character so much - even as a potential additional speed bump in Jim and Pam's rocky period. I would have preferred no sexual tension between him and Pam though, just for him to have a brief appearance and to be the cause of the misunderstanding by Jim.
Ultimately, the show kinda breaks the 'fifth wall' in the final episode with the documentary Q&A, so it's not as though Brian is the only device that did this.
Cathy is the character that I dislike the most.
Yeah. She is a complete turd. Brian had likeable qualities, at least.
No this guy was worse.
Yeah, that last season pulled at the heart strings. I don't like it when shows encourage infidelity, and it looked like The Office was going that direction, pulling the heartstrings even more. Yes, I will admit I was one of the fans yelling at Pam "DON'T DO IT!!!" when she entered the house. As much as I hated that last story arc, it does serve a friendly reminder that not every relationship guaranteed. For all we know, after the "documentary" of The Office, Jim & Pam divorced or Dwight & Angela divorced or even Bob & Phyllis divorced. It reminds its audience that marriages aren't always happily ever after right after the wedding, unless work is put into them, which wasn't happening between Jim & Pam. Someone could technically argue that Jim "cheated" on Pam by spending too much focus on work than family. Yes, I know the struggles of a start-up business, but it should not rob of family time. While a final season that tugged at the heartstrings, I'm glad The Office showed that reality of marriage, and they found the drama without having to throw in a divorce, an affair or even a one-night-stand.
The most heartbreaking line in season 3 was when Pam asked, “What time is it there?” 🥺
@Entertainment X100 I just realized that while Pam meant everyone in the Scranton office, Jim could have initially read it as "us" being Jim and Pam. He likely understood the intended meaning, but the fact he read it that way meant he knew what he had to do.
@@SirFilmore he made the wrong choice he should’ve chose Karen she was better than Pam in literally every way
heartbreaking?
@@jxmmykriminallive Nah Jim described her as a rebound in the Benihana Christmas episode, Karen doesn’t nearly have the same amount of chemistry with Jim
@@Anthonyfpm20 i think he liked Pam more just because she allowed him to always be joking and not take life as serious as he should. Karen seemed like she was willing to joke w Jim and have that kinda relationship but she also was goal oriented in her career and seemed to expect jim to be the same way, which he didn’t really want to do being that he ultimately feels stuck in a dead end job. basically i don’t think they lacked much in chemistry but I do think they were jus at different points in life and Karen had a lower tolerance for Jim’s antics than Pam which made jim kinda sour on her.
I never believed Pam had a sliver of feeling for Brian. He did for her but that isn't her fault. I liked how they went back to being focused on PB&J and the heartbreaks which made them stronger.
I remember the first time I saw that episode. I wasn't an Office fan at the time or invested in the show at all but I knew enough about it to understand its premise. And even as a non-Office fan, when I saw the camera pan to the boom operator I was like "I dont...I don't like that... they're not supposed to show the documentary people."
The last two seasons of the office was just confusing boring pain
While I do think that the idea of including the crew would have been interesting, I still don’t like how they tried to pull Jim and Pam apart.
Yeah they could have actually done something interesting with that concept
Maybe if they hinted at Brian existence a little earlier in some small way. This was really out of nowhere with its possible consequences too great.
It would extremely stupid for Jim and Pam to separate over a single instance of tension and turmoil. It wasn’t even like they had a major disagreement, just that Pam made a mistake and Jim overreacted.
I think the disagreement itself wasnt why Pam was crying, but the situation as a whole. She felt like she had married Jim and had two children with him, with the expectation that he would be there to share the burden of raising those two children. Jim leaving her for his dream job meant that she was being left as essentially a single working mother of two, and he still had the audacity to get angry at her for little things like not filming a performance, when she already has everything else on her shoulders.
@@ellap73 I fell for her too however It's not like he was living the dream , he was working his butt off. Telling him "you shouldn't have left then" was a bit too ungrateful. He slipped once and she immediately rubbed it to his face that she is being supportive?
The whole Brian thing took away part of what made Jim and Pam’s relationship special and unique. It makes it seem like anytime Pam has issues in her relationships, she develops feelings for her close male friends. I never understood it.
I understood. She’s a little damsel in distress that needs an alpha male to come to her rescue bc she can’t ever get anything done herself. She has to always be coddled like a little baby
I always thought the writers were sexist when it comes to Pam because they always had her
be the damsel in distress just so they can make Jim and even Dwight look like the office hero.
They also had Jim follow his dream of working in sports, but Pam didn’t ever get the opportunity to do the same.
Pam only had to be the little wife who supported her husband while he got to have his own achievements. 😡
@@erinstanger416 I agree. Because Jim was also doing fucked up shit too. I think the writers were trying to balance the scales to keep Jim looking like the nice guy.
@@ctorre nothing makes a woman drier than the sahara faster than a guy who uses terms like “alpha” and “sigma” seriously. i have secondhand embarrassment for you lmfaooo
huh i was never aware people hated him that much. maybe its because while watching i didn't think he'd end up posing much of a threat. figured he'd be used to throw in the "5th wall" plot line with no serious impact to the primary cast members like he essentially did.
interesting to know that he was actually designed to be what people were afraid of.
same
Same
Yeah, I just thought he was there to emphasize the issues Pam was having with Jim's new job. Not for anything romantic. I thought overall they handled it pretty well... balancing career ambition and family is a real problem a lot of families have.
I liked that Jim and Pam went through a rough patch in their relationship and actually had to go to couple's counseling, even though it was still a somewhat sanitized sit com version of reality it made the relationship feel real.
That being said using the whole boom mic guy as a plot device felt forced.
Honestly it's cathartic, which has a place in comfort shows. However Brian never should have existed, we were robbed of a kickass mirroring of the time when Dwight saved Jim, but with Pam instead, and the sanctity of the fifth wall was forever tarnished. The scene where they reconciled actually had me bawling my eyes out, it was just perfect.
Having Jim & Pam break up like that would have been the epitome of "doing too much". I don't care about being served as a fan, I just want a good story that makes sense. Their fighting made sense & how they got to that point made sense, but bringing in this mystery man to just sweep Pam off her feet at the first sign of trouble did not make sense. We had already been though this when she went to Pratt and saw that she wasn't going to play that game. It would have made zero sense to do it again now that she was married w/kids. I get that the situation was a bit more intense, but having them break up just wouldn't have made any sense.
I actually didn't mind Brian as a character. I never felt like he was trying to take her from Jim. It was a little weird to break that "fifth" wall, but he was fine as a concept.
Your description reminds me of something I heard John Cleese said in regards to Fawlty Towers. It went something like, "Watching someone acting crazy isn't funny. What's funny is to watch someone watching someone act crazy." It's the importance of the straight man in comedy.
I love these new edits, this channel needs more views
With Brian's sudden disappearance it was so obvious when I saw it for the first time that the writers realized they were about to make a huge mistake and saw that at the last minute.
I agree that showing the crew breaks the narrative in several ways, except for the mic bump on Pam's head. I think that's great, because I cannot see how the crew, after following the people that we learned to love, wouldn't also become friends with them and love them as well. If it weren't for the rest of the Brian plot, that would be an awesome little detail that, imo, would make the show more believable and immersive.,
Fun fact: the camerawoman shown in that episode is an actual camera woman for the set of the Office
if it happened it all also would’ve ruined a pivotal moment in the series. i believe it’s like season 4 or 5 when Jim bumps into Roy again and during their talk Roy, whether intentionally or not, puts the idea of infidelity in Jim’s mind because Jim was just a “friend” to her who she ended up kissing and Jim didn’t want the same which leads to the best scene where he drives to New York to “visit” her but ultimately turns right around and says “no, we are not that couple”
in my mind that solidified them and having Pam actually hook up with Bryan her “friend” would undo all that justice in that beautiful scene by Jim
I actually kinda liked this idea, especially since it made the finale concept of the characters getting excited for their show to be released make more sense, I guess? Like, it made it clear that there was an actual crew filming all of these things all this time and they'd been working so hard to not interfere with the actual lives of the characters, but one of them finally broke the rules? If it had actually broken up Pam and Jim I might have felt differently, though....
I would have hated the office and have lost my faith in sitcoms if they chose this path. Not because of how bad I would feel but because of how a show can ignore the cries of millions of people. Thank god they didn't.
I always thought a clever way to reveal the camera crew was to find out it was David Brent the whole time (I thought of this before his brief cameo) but at the very very end of the show.
It gave the show something to watch .. if it was all happy times.... I wouldn't have felt as good as I did when we got to the end
Doing an episode in the last season focused on the crew would have been a great idea. But you had to do it in a way that focused on the crew and showed how hard it was for them to experience everything and not be able to get involved
I never really had a problem with Brian. I guess I never really saw him as a real threat, and I don't mind a love triangle
But wow I never realized what he was originally supposed to lead to! That probably would have been a HIMYM level of suck lol
This analysis is spot on.
I still choose to believe that The Office was 3 seasons long. Makes it much better.
For me its 7, plus AARM & the finale.
Brian Wittle was the least of the problem. Pam was doing to Jim what Roy did to her back in season 1-2. The dynamic between Pam and Jim was already destroyed in the final season when Pam acted like a complete selfish prick, which was really out of her character in the last 8 seasons. Pam might be indecisive and afraid of changes, but she was also a caring and understanding person.
But no, the writers made Pam into a villain in the final season by making her stop her husband's dream and from a THRIVING business. And to add salt to the wound, she succeeded! Jim actually had to give up his business for Pam to stay with her, and she remained unchanged for a year or two until the business took off.
Things like this made Pam a very unlikeable character in the final season.... So ya, Brian was the least of the problem. The writers destroying Pam (and Andy too btw)'s character for some cheap dramatic moments in the final season was nothing short of appalling, and I will never forgive them for ruining one of the most perfect couples in American TV history for god knows what reason.
Sums the whole thing up perfectly. Also, it undid all Pam's personal growth. It was like she walked the hot coals in reverse.
actually i hated the season 8
but season 9 put things on the right place for me
with brian it wasn`t an affair and it didn`t feel dirty as pam didn`t even think of something more
it was subtle and gave a fresh look on filming documentary about them
I got tired of all the affairs in season 8
but season 9 was nostalgic and finishing
It felt like they broke the rules when they panned over to the sounding guy. You weren’t supposed to see the crew, you haven’t seen the crew, this guy isn’t supposed to be here.
Not to mention that trying to break up Jim and Pam is sacrilegious in and of itself.
I like that edit of the Jim/Pam call when the misunderstanding was before
I knew this was gonna be the topic when I saw the video notfication. this was the worst idea of the entire show. Made it hard to finish the show.
Just terrible
The worst part of S9 for me was what they did to Andy
I know, right? First they try to do the Jim & Pam thing with Andy & Erin, which is creepy as hell with the age difference, then suddenly they decide that's not working so Andy becomes this raging, raging jackass out of absolutely nowhere and his IQ drops like 50 points. I've always wondered if Ed Helms pissed someone off in production they did him so dirty.
@@BlazingOwnager as far as I know he was filling Hangover 3 so they had to find a way for him to not be in a bunch of the season. But they still really messed him up and just gave up on his character
i didnt really mind the 5th wall breaks as u call it, it was interesting to get a little insight into the crew/how nefarious the documentary company could be. i feel like if they didnt tease the romantic tension it wouldve played better
exactly. It was a comfort where people can have a laugh and forget reality for a few. It was a good feeling to see Jim and Pam have a strong relationship. when they started messing with that, it just became awkward and painful to watch.
I really like the office and I think steve carell is perfect as michael scott. I think rain wilson is also perfect as dwight. Ed helm's is really good as andy so I think the cast is wonderful for the office. I thought season 9 was ok but it definitely was a decline. Season 8 has a slight decline also but not as much as season 9. I think season's 3, 4, 5 and 6 are the best season's of the office. Season 2 is also really good and season 7 is pretty good as well.
😂😂 so it's just season 1 you didnt like?
@@nontomabaso5525 no season one was ok and it had it's moment's I just didn't mention it. I do prefer season's 2 through 6 more though and those are my favorite season's. Season 1 is definitely not a season I watch alot like season's 8 and 9.
I binged watched the office in full while on maternity leave and honestly the last season almost ruined the entire series for me. I keep trying to erase it from my brain.
Personally I don’t think I would’ve minded Brian if he was just a one time appearance in that moment. I feel like it could’ve even elevated the show a bit in terms of intimacy with its viewers in hitting us in the feels BECAUSE it reminds us it’s a documentary about real people( even though it isn’t😄).
It could subtly show how the crew has grown attached to the office like the audience at home. Brian serving as a conduit for the viewer. Where in earlier season when something really went wrong or an employee of the office was really going thorough tough times and struggling, the crew could stay professional and stick to doing their job by taping everything and not intervening regardless of the circumstance. But a one time appearance in that episode episode alone could’ve shown how the camera crew making the documentary started as casual professional with no personal stake in the lives of the employees but gradually felt like they were a part of this journey and felt a very real and human connection with the people they were filming just like the audience, especially kids and young adults growing up, felt like the employees on the show were there friends and coworkers who we truly cared about, cheered for, cried with, and just enjoyed being along for the ride.
That’s what Brian could’ve been. The professional camera team saying “forget the documentary and forget professionalism because my friend is crying amid a crisis and she needs someone to talk to and comfort her instead of a bunch of cameras broadcasting her very real breakdown”. I mean that hits me. I liked it when I first saw Brian because I thought that was what it was going to be. A one off. But he kept coming back and being this white knight type of guy and we kept ONLY seeing him out of the entire crew. So it began to feel like an exec on the actual office set had a son who just forced the writers to put him in the show on a script he personally wrote portraying him as this hero dude that everyone loves😂.
I would’ve loved for Brian to be a one off in that episode or even a two off when he bumps his mic on Pam’s head to remind us of that sweet moment. Could’ve been a favorite moment for me. A little nod to the fans personified through Brian that portrays how long we’ve known these people and grown attached to them and just genuinely want things for them to work out. But they kept bringing him back and just got cringey and weird 😂. But I think it could’ve worked as that singular moment. Maybe even a fan favorite moment (as crazy as that sounds I know😄) to go back to where a show allowed the audience to literally in a way step through the screen and give a character we loved a shoulder to cry on and an ear to listen to while they unload their stress and problems like you would a real friend. Because that’s what made the office special at the time. They felt like our real friends.
That camera crew literally filmed the dance recital. If Brian wanted to be helpful he could have just reminded Pam of that fact. The entire fight was over nothing.
Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica
Brian feels very much like what would happen if you took an AO3 self insert fanfic and somehow got the actual production company to adapt it. If they really wanted to screw with the documentary style, they could have done what actual doc producers do and create a literal in universe artificial affair. To resolve this, do something that really breaks the formula. Create an episode not of the documentary, but of an in universe podcast or video essay showing behind the scenes footage taken by the office workers and social media videos from the pam and jim explaining that it was fake.
i rewatch this show throughout my life as comfort, almost to the point of mania and I usually skip the final season because of how badly it veered from what makes the show comforting
I think a cool idea might've been if they first took out the Jim and Pam argument stuffing and Brian being shoehorned in but kept in the episode leading to the warehouse guy trying to attack Pam, but instead of it being a crew member character they established with this additional subplot or someone like Dwight coming to save her, they literally just have some random members of the filming crew appear out of nowhere and just jump the guy and then go back behind the camera. Like just play it for laughs for a moment of her character and the audience being abruptly reminded that there is an actual film crew watching them that picks and chooses when to be involved. It still brings the original concept of them being filmed in canon around full circle and they never have to be obliged to actually close that story of them technically being in a documentary.
Brian was easily the worst part of the show. I hate that they try to pass it off as if Jim and Pam were good friends with this guy the entire time but we somehow never heard about it or saw them interact. Brian as a character, I always felt was very slimy. Although he stepped in to help Pam when she was distressed, he clearly had feelings for her despite being married, and then showed up to a valentines couples dinner to announce his divorce-when he knew Jim and Pam were already struggling. Definitely seemed like he was “throwing his hat in the ring” to let Pam know he was available. The whole thing just pisses me off and was a terrible move-especially for the final season when things are supposed to be secure and winding down. A desperate attempt to keep people’s interest when all the viewers really wanted was what the show had been doing all along.
I guess I was too innocent cause when they introduced the camera guy I thought they were just friends even when she went over to his house. I guess it never crossed my mind that Jim and Pam could even possibly split up. I'm glad they didn't though that would have sucked.
I knew exsactly what this video was about before i watched it, i rewatch the office as like a back ground show alomost daily an this are the hardest episodes to watch.
They were going to have Jim cheat on Pam with Cathy. The writers clearly lost their minds at the end
The show derailed after Michael left.
Instead of having Brian break the 5th wall while Pam was crying, the scene and situation could have shown a lot of character development for Pam since she has always had Jim's extensive support with most things, was a bit too reliant on him, and was trying to break through on her own. Like the vandalism episode, the show clearly was trying to allow pam to demonstrate her independence, and abilities to take charge without the immediate support of Jim. But, even then, Dwight comes to her aid (which was super sweet, love their friendship), but he just took over Jim's usual role and provided her with the assistance of a man. So while the tension / implications of a divorce might have been a little too far, having Pam and Jim struggle with their marriage was an okay choice to me because couples have their ups and downs, and it would given Pam an opportunity to really stand up for herself and given her success without the need to confide in a man.
Also, like someone else said in the comments, ending the episode with just Pam struggling after a fight is a bigger cliff hanger than some random potential love interest breaking the tension and connection audiences feel with Pam in that moment. We were looking directly at her, and would probably have felt lingering turmoil even if the episode ended there, but instead Pam turns away, and someone we don't know cuts in.
I think the idea of breaking the 5th wall is nice; it could also be playful that one of the crew members has feelings for one of the office members since they have been interacting(?) and seeing each other for over 10 years, but messing with the Pam and Jim dynamic, especially that late in the show's running was a really poor choice.
ill never forgive them for ruining Andy
That would have definitely destroyed it for me, and I'm glad it didn't go down that way. Even just watching this and seeing it was looking like that was the way it was going to go, makes this hard to watch. XD Which is funny it kinda effects me that way.
Anyway, loved this video =) Thanks!
I feel like they ruined Andy near the end when he went on a sea voyage lol, he must of ended up like Tom Hanks in Cast Away.
I never knew this guy existed since I stopped watching at s5, but the idea of it sounds really interesting and fresh, I'm sure there's a reason Why it didn't work but kudos to the team for trying.
7:11 "brief amount of time" LOL. Bet you can't watch just one! I've popped in to watch a particular scene or episode and then usually end up watching a whole season.
The Office UK really nailed the whole relationship situation and ended PERFECTLY!
We don’t do that here in the US. We run shows into the ground!
The 2nd part of the Christmas Special is just one of the best pieces of TV history ever.. I fucking love both versions of the Office, both are wildly different and even though I'm British I really don't like the patriotic defences of either version of the show, but I do have to say the UK Office got it right when it came to the ending and the US simply just narrowly avoided disaster.
Actually if you consider Life on the Road as the Office's true ending, that is a total disaster... let's just pretend that awful movie doesn't exist lol
I would have been LIVID if they made Jim and Pam split up, oh my god. I already barely watch season nine, but if they pulled that??? I would have burned the fuckin dvd
Brian and Pam’s dynamic was amazing and Brian was my favorite character.
Seeing the crew was so weird. In part because the "documentary" aspect of the show is so rarely mentioned. When Jim looks at the camera, or when they are having talking heads, it feels like they are looking to the viewer directly, they are talking to *me* and not to other people.
But once I saw Brian and the other camerawoman who is also in the shot, it became distracting because I could only focus on where the cameras were at. I'd look at scenes thinking about the crew, and how that shot, the way it's done, and then there's another shot where we should clearly see the crew filming the first shot. It took away the suspension of disbelief in a big and awkward way.
Could you do an episode of Thomas and Friends? I know it's completely left field but it is franchise that was primarily intended as a family show but overtime dumbed down for babies. It is an oscillation of reboots; from good, to bad, to good again, to bad again
That's an interesting idea!
@@Nerdstalgic I recommend the unluckytug if you want to see it for yourself as someone new to the franchise
All went downhill when they tried to make a feature film. Compare to the cgi tv show now, there was so much artistry to the models made before.
@@irwinisidro you don't know the half of it. Now it's a babified reboot
I still can't stand this season. It felt like they reverted back to season 1 humor and they lost that feeling of family that the Office had from seasons 2-8. I do feel the last 3 episodes of that season saved some things but there was a lot of damage done in my opinion. Jim and Pam were never the same and it sucked cause what was the point of tearing them a part like that. Did anyone ask to see their marriage struggles. Speaking of other things that they ruined they ruined Andy and Oscar cause those plot lines were terrible. Dwight I think was the only good character this season lol. It did have a great ending and I liked that they mentioned they were in a documentary which I thought was cool but other then that this was one of the worst final seasons of a TV series I ever watched.
The office got so terrible after Michael left man. It was near unwatchable. Only reason I finished it was because I already watched 7 seasons
Breaking the 4th wall was a nice way to finish the documentary
why did i watch this i don't even like the office.
We appreciate it !
This is so true. After the last season i realized I didn’t like Pam as much as I thought I did as a character/person. Then, when I watched it through again with the knowledge of Pam in the last season, it made me not like her through the whole show. Around watching through 4 or 5 more times from start to finish, I realized it was almost entirely in the last season where Pam made me not like her so much, it spanned across the whole show.
Agreed. Something happens later in the show that makes her way less likeable and for me it happened during season 7 a little bit before Michael left I can’t put into words why though
Dwight should have comforted and defended pam, it would have been much better
I think Greg Daniels wanted to present the very real picture of marriage not being a 'happily ever after' and show that two people can run into problems even when they really love each other. The problem is, that's really uncomfortable, and like you said, they jammed it into the last few episodes and it was forced. I don't hate the idea of exploring the challenges in communication and building a life together after you say 'i do' but... they didn't do it in a way that felt rewarding or in keeping with the tone of the show. I'm just glad they didn't wreck it entirely with infidelity.