An NHS Doctor REACTS to - Why are Doctors LEAVING the NHS?
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- čas přidán 5. 08. 2024
- We've broken down a recent video entitled 'Why are doctors leaving the NHS' to provide more objective and balanced look at the issues raised with the experience we have had thus far in the NHS, both in our clinical and non-clinical roles.
This is by no means in any way to detract from the points mentioned, but rather to provide more insight and citations into what has been said. We acknowledge this video is a tad lengthy, but we promise that it is totally worth it.
📑 Chapters:
04:55 Inadequate Pay
07:11 Long Hours
11:18 Burnout
12:46 Broken System
17:38 Lack of Job Satisfaction
20:47 Lack of Support
23:29 Competition
27:59 Moving around the country
30:44 Lack of Perks
32:55 Private Sector Benefits
36:13 Bullying and abuse
39:26 Moving Abroad
40:51 Final thoughts, reflections, things to consider
🔍 6 Reasons Why I Enjoy Working in the NHS:
✍🏻 roadtouk.com/before-ielts-oet...
🔍 Support for Burnout:
✍🏻 www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-sup...
✍🏻 www.bma.org.uk/news-and-opini...
🔍 Exception Reporting:
✍🏻 www.bma.org.uk/news-and-opini...
✍🏻 www.bma.org.uk/media/2004/exc...
🔍 How to Raise Concerns:
✍🏻 www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-sup...
🔍 Oversubscription to UK Foundation Program:
✍🏻 foundationprogramme.nhs.uk/20...
🔍 Unfilled Consultant Posts/Shortages:
✍🏻 www.rcplondon.ac.uk/news/rcp-...
✍🏻 www.bma.org.uk/media/3429/bma...
🔍 Jobless doctors in US:
✍🏻 www.nytimes.com/2021/02/19/he...
✍🏻 markets.businessinsider.com/n...
🔍 Private Jobs:
✍🏻 www.nuffieldhealthcareers.com...
✍🏻 neshealthcare.co.uk/vacancies...
✍🏻 neshealthcare.co.uk/vacancies...
🔍 Violence in the Workplace:
✍🏻 www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-sup...
✅ Why THIS is the BEST TIME for IMGs to work in the NHS
👉🏻👉🏻 • Why THIS is the BEST T...
✅ Working Hours for NHS Doctors
👉🏻👉🏻 • Working hours for UK d...
✅ 5 Misconceptions about Working in the UK
👉🏻👉🏻 • Why IMGs Don't Want to...
✅ Why I Moved to the UK from the USA
👉🏻👉🏻 • 10 Reasons Why I Moved...
✅ Locum Work as an IMG Doctor
👉🏻👉🏻 • Locum Work as an IMG D...
✅ Dealing with Racism & Bullying in the NHS
👉🏻👉🏻 • Freedom to Speak Up Gu...
👩⚕️ 👨⚕️ Day in the Life as a Doctor in the NHS:
Acute medicine- • Acute Medicine Night S...
Medical registrar- • Day in the Life of a M...
Intensive care- • Day in the Life of a D...
Medical night cover- • Day in the Life of an ...
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The NHS is wasting a generation of doctors due to negligent resource management.
:(
In turkey, we had similar problems. But we had a huge strike then we earned our rights. We got nearly45% additional pay raise. It is better to point out problems even if there is one person suffers. looking at things from the bright side can hinder development. it is best to present the problems frankly abd demand solution
Exactly! Many of the good things NHS doctors now enjoy came from the 2016 strike!
Agree with you completely
Almost collected all information through your channel but I have just one question remaining kindly need your help…I did my medical degree in foreign country and also did my internship in foreign. As i heard we can do one year clinical experience in Ireland without Plab So, will they accept my internship that I did in foreign or they need internship from home country…need your guidance.please
Thank u sir for your informative videos. I’ve completed MRCOG Part2. U know, It requires 03 years training to sit for MRCOG Part 3 exam. I’ve already completed 1.5 years Post Graduation (FCPS) in OG from my country (Bangladesh). Now, I want to settle in UK as doctor of OG. What should I do in my current position. Should I go for MTI pathway or not? If I get chance for MTI system then is it possible to count rest of my 1.5 years training to apply for MRCOG part 3 exam from 02 years training under MTI pathway. My another question is that, during MTI process can I bring my child & husband in UK under dependent visa or other condition.
1:42 the gentleman on the screen is a junior doctor .. he indeed is a doctor ; not a medical student .. FYI doc
Thanks for clarifying a lot of good points with validation and reality check ( on the ground )
Yes, but he did not speak for this video nor did he leave the NHS for the reasons given. His channel covers his why, but thank you for your due diligence!
I’m just gonna agree with people who want to leave and gonna slyly take their jobs because it is much better than the work life and PG life in India! I think people are usually dissatisfied with their home country’s healthcare and are always looking out for ways to find a better one(including me or Ibreez or Ibrahim ) One should not settle for anything lower than their standards. IMGs view NHS as a ray of hope becuz their country’s healthcare system is on a downward spiral.
As for India I would say there are more reservations for lower caste and all the general merit(the upper caste) are looking out for ways to leave the country because of sheer political negligence and double standards. People from India who don’t get any money during PG obviously feel like a privilege moving to UK. I think it would be a 24hours video if doctors from India would make a video like this.
To summarise, the grass is always greener on the other side…
Thank you for your insight!
😂dont blindly blame the reservation system. There is no reservation when graduating. Everyone takes the same exams reserved candidate or not.
Yes I've been told about the caste system must admit I was in shock
Great feedback 👍
Glad you liked it!
Does NHS have issues with facility provision? As in are doctors leaving or frustrating because the available facilities are not available or not up to mark ? As in ct , xray , labwork, beds etc.
What do you mean?
@@RoadToUK does NHS face any scarcity of resources ( in terms of beds , or medicines or scans or waiting for reports or ots) as compared to patient flow which in turn lead to long waiting time for scans or operation theatres etc which increases Morbidity or mortality in patients
There are what they call 'bed pressures' as there are sometimes delays in discharges to safe places for patients who need social support, but there are changes put into place to work past this. Also, patients are still seen to and treated. The NHS also buys private beds if they require it.
@@RoadToUK let me elaborate further has it ever happened to you that you are attending a patient and u order a scan but the waiting is too long so u decide to transfer the patient and the waiting in acceptance in other hospital is also long and that has increased suffering ( Morbidity or mortality ) of ur patient? Especially for pre-op or emergency cases. if yes, how often does this kind of demand supply mismatch happen in NHS ??
@@charvimahida8501 No. We have ways to internally escalate scans if need be and there is a triage protocol.
Hello, I am actually from south korea and I am thinking of going to medical school directly(MBBS) in UK or going to bachelor in USA and applying for medical school(graudate school) in US. What would you recommend?? Pay will be a lot higher in USA but I think the fact that working hours as a doctor in UK is around 48 hours compared to 80-100hours in US makes me feel hesitant to go to USA. Because I am not that really physically strong to endure hard work. And also I think I will feel much more at home in UK. There is no public transportation in USA so.. and I like old european style housings in UK more than square shaped wide structures in USA. What would you recommend me to do so? Can I ask your opinion??
Why not consider an EU/EEA country which currently are exempt from exams but can obtain GMC registration?
If you’re not prepared to work hard, please reconsider going to medschool or becoming a doctor in the first place. Not putting you or anyone down, just saying any doctor would say to you :) anywhere is up to your own circumstances
All of the points mentioned in the video Ibreez responded to are there in some or the other way in most healthcare systems in the Southeast Asian region. I did foundation and then worked in Kerala, India. From my experience as a doctor and as someone who chairs an association of junior doctors in Kerala- working hours are definitely worse - there are doctors who do a night and then work the next day. There are doctors who have been on work for 72 hours continuously. The pay is definitely very low and the conversations/efforts to raise it is a Herculean task (this is mostly referring to private healthcare although public healthcare is not that different if you are on fixed term contract). The hierarchal system is much more stronger - consultants have been known to scream and degrade their interns /specialist trainees in presence of patients on wards. The pressure of working hours plus hierarchy based discrimination have driven specialists trainees to suicide and each year I keep hearing more and more. So no it’s not better in all countries across the world. UK may not be heaven but at least we won’t have to pay fees to be then yelled at and humiliated or beaten up without a chance to explain ourselves.
The key things we really wanted to get across in this video is that there are ways to raise the issues you are facing, and that there is help and support if you are struggling. There are a lot of extra links we've given in the description box that we hope will be of use to you.
Thank you for that been reading all these comments no we aren't racist or bullies but don't forget your here to work and it's not an easy job it takes a lot of team work and training you need to make sure your English is up to par and you can tell the time properly because alot of people are having problems at work with this as silly as it seems and some can't do the time which you definitely need all the doctors and nurses and staff generally get on well with each other from all over the world which is lovely because its nice to learn from each other treat people with respect and they will respect you back if you have a problem with someone or don't understand tell them nicely we have lovely doctors and staff but don't forget it's also team work from the top staff to the bottom so the wards are run properly and with that good luck everyone xxx
That's horrible
That's horrible
How much fees of mrcp in uk and duration
www.mrcpuk.org/
Great video! Having qualified in the US, how do you deal with paying back the enormous student loans having moved to a place with significantly lower salaries on average for physicians?
US residents and fellows make less than their UK counterparts while also working more hours. We'll have a paycheck comparison video out soon :) In the meantime, this may be of interest: czcams.com/video/2IfxX6WkGPo/video.html
I think an issue a lot of trainees or medical students have is that they judge the entire career on the basis of their perspective as a trainee or student. Like, judging the stress levels and rewards of a career based on your experiences as a trainee may not be an accurate way to judge a career? You're not giving yourself the time to experience the rewards of your career by quitting during training.
Valid points!
nope as trainee you have less responsibilities. You are working under someone else's name. Of course consultant will have more stress. You are taking more risks but I dont know if the pay is exponentially compensating. To me the solution is making money to buy back your time. So you have time freedom and ideally financial freedom. And your time isn't owned by someone else. And id still say uk/ eu work life balance helps with that compared to other nations. If you arent happy as trainee you wont be happy as a consultant. And ofc you win some and lose some in life. Best to be at a position where you sort of like that position and dont continuously compare with others.
@@enscebose8466 Many of the consultants we've interviewed have said otherwise - they found the training time demanding but consultancy another level of rewarding that they're glad they stuck around for. It can vary, especially with certain specialties.
They need to understand bullying is your reality…….take it , work around it or confront it that’s upto to you no matter where you work it’s gonna be there …………i am an intern in government hospital in Gujarat,india …..While interns are not targeted here but man i have seen the 1st year residents getting slapped,kicked ….sometimes them working from 8am to 3am (like constantly on foot) , residents literally sleeps standing in queue for their tests getting done , the famous 72 hours shifts either to cover their senior’s duty or there is that much of work load…..all the work load of whole hospital boils down on 1st year residents….all because the 2nd year residents have to provide them sign on completions and they are the only ones who teaches and guide the 1st year residents……..I can’t speak for whole india but situation of 1st year residents in my state is the worst ever possible……there was a recent case of R1 developing cellulitis , varicose veins (so severe it needed surgery)and depression in first 6 months of joining …..if you are doctor you can figure out the extent of bullying needed here
So sorry you've had to experience that! What we've really tried to also highlight is the ways you can raise issues related to bullying and how you can ensure you are being safe. There are a lot of links in the description box that you may find useful!
I’m from Ahmedabad as well. From which college are u from
?
That system is utterly disgusting, should never be used as an example of anything not even an outlier in the statistics, what you are describing is not bullying , it is against basic human rights, institutionalized torture, if it is the only health system you have been exposed to, then you are not suited to say what is acceptable or not in standard of work
Is it possible/easy to get to work in private in UK
We've given some links in the description box.
Honestly what is in my country is even worse .....so I have seen it all. The UK is better when it comes to where I come from
Still, it's important to know your rights! There are links in the description box in case you ever need help.
Thanks for the clearity and Completely off topic but pls help Ibreez
Someone from my city releases a seat soon for 2023. A friend of a friend. He will do it on phone with me. Does gmc test bookings show seat instantly or in 1 hr or when please any insight ?? Pls see this and help. So worried. He does it in one week. Thanks guys and God bless
GMC releases as and when they please. There is no data on when cancelled seats show.
Thanks, a very important & relevant video indeed.
Glad it was helpful!
And here I am not even getting shortlisted for an interview 😔
Sorry to hear that! Have you checked out this video: czcams.com/video/JTB4CXSxLYs/video.html
I am weakling miss ibreez but I pray that I make it to nhs and meet u someday and get trained in uk 🇬🇧... please pray for me
You can do this! Keep believing in yourself!
i m glad u r clarifying those misconceptions
i m from Pakistan and right now in 4th year mbbs
i m really looking forward to working in NHS
Hope to see you here soon!
@@RoadToUK yes IA
I'm really glad someone is actually addressing this. Thank you for your honesty.
It's our pleasure!
I will get the primary qualification from ukraine in may 2023. Is there any law or temporary protection for non ukrainian refugee in uk, for staying there and doing plab in uk?... i am still in ukraine and doing my internship in hospital....
is there any additional advantages for me to get in uk as a student refugee?
Thank u
Not as far as we know. You can always contact GMC and ask them.
I think the most important thing to take away which is very worrying is that there is a level of deception I feel in that not one person in the entire video has given their introduction or their role in the NHS, and by wearing scrubs, stethoscope, and lanyard so we assume they are doctors.
How can you make a video about experiences you haven't had? Are we to assume they are looking for options outside of the UK? Do they run some business that they are now trying to get started by this manner?
👍
This video was to debunk almost all the reasons given 😂😂😂
Haha 😂
Can you do a video on PLAB converting to UKMLA?
We have one already!
Mam please told me about MRCP
www.mrcpuk.org/
The biggest drawback of nhs is lengthy training programme.
Consider training for 10 yrs...this is nightmare
...no you don't . czcams.com/video/6DQgLl7s7eo/video.html
@@RoadToUK i have gone through max of ur videos
As ur channel is bible for imgs.
Thanks for that and love from pakistan
But with all due respect.
How can an img become plastic surgeon in uk without investing 10 yrs
Starting from fy2 of 1 yr
Then 2 yr CT
Then 6 yr ST
Considering if one gets all this in first attempt which is rare and almost impossible.
@@Hello_stalker1103 You don't have to do FY2. Plastics can be 2 years CST + 6 years specialty or 8 years run through, but there is the possibility of completion of alternative core competencies which can reduce the time. Alternately, an IMG can have completed their country's plastics curriculum and chosen to follow the UK curriculum in maintaining their portfolio, thus submitting an application for CESR and obtaining CESR specialist registration.
@@RoadToUK still 8 yrs
Thats painfully extensive.
Gmc/RCS should work on reducing number of years.
@@Hello_stalker1103 Read it again. It doesn't have to be 8 years.
I am from India and I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with the pay or the hours (I literally have worked more during my internship in India ) . what I value more is the flexibility . I want be a medical innovator and actually build products . I am really interested in the field of wearable sensors . Do you know anyone in UK , a junior doctor who is also a innovator and working in his own startup ? Will I have such opportunities in UK ? I shall be highly grateful if you answer my queries . Thankyou
You can do as you please in your free time, and find routes even within the NHS to further this, but you will be more able to pursue these efforts once you get indefinite leave to remain (ILR) after 5 years in the UK.
You can tell she has a lot of first hand experience and the video is definitely more med students. She's still being very respectful and logical in her approach but its good share accurate information for upcoming doctors too. :) great video
Thanks for saying so 😊
That channel is really good and I hope they grow alot
👍
Pay, pensions, workload, conditions, public expectations unrelated to NHS capacity, unsupportive (hostile) management, disproportionate regulation, reforms without coalface engagement, outlook (trajectory), loss of trust with leadership, blame culture, politicisation, sense of injustice, exhaustion...
👍🏻
One humble suggestion dr ibreez u elaborate very nicely but your supersonic English linguistic speed can hinder many Asian doctors not to understand few points I think kindly a bit moderate in speech rest u are fabulous
Tips to help:
1) Slow down the playback speed.
2) Use the closed caption.
3) We also provide a transcript of the video in the description.
Very well done! Rishi Sunak himself could not have done better. 10 downing should hire you to speak on their behalf. Lmao
🤣🤣
Hi! Do you think doctors will continue being on the shortage occupations list even after 6-7 years from now?
(I'm gonna start med school in India this year Insha'Allah and am curious about my prospects.)
It's hard to say!
Nowhere in this world is a bed of roses.
True!
But some parts like UK is full of weeds and thorns.
The levels of fatigue under staffing and or then pressure is monumental! It's under appreciated underpaid and under served for us to serve. Inflation COVID trauma and length of trainings/ scrutiny of the trade seriously jealous of and looking forward to new career prospects 👌🏾. NHS 💣 💯
The levels of fatigue under staffing and or then pressure is monumental! It's under appreciated underpaid and under served for us to serve. Inflation COVID trauma and length of trainings/ scrutiny of the trade seriously jealous of and looking forward to new career prospects 👌🏾. NHS 💣 💯
Haha... try residency training in the Philippines.. then working in the NHS as a resident would be haven for you..😅
:'(
42 minutes T^T
We promise it's worth it! Plus there are chapters in the description box!
as you work for the government despite your job(docotor, teacher, ect....) you definitely gonna feel that you are underpaid no matter which country. end of discussion.
Haha true!
Facts
1st here lol 😆 😂
:)
im sorry for us patients who lost trust Sad
👍🏻
Unrelated question: I know you are a USA citizen, do you speak Arabic?
She is from bangladesh,why should she speak Arabic…..….¿
I don't speak Arabic unfortunately! I'm also not Bangladeshi :)
@@balwantrai2386 thanks for the correction.
Some of our doctors have attitudinal problems because of which they cannot adjust. Maybe you have already made a video for this. if not please guide our young doctors on the professional attitudes expected for working successfully abroad.
Sure 😊
They can adapt so well to better systems that they end in USA or Australia many times
I dont support NHS they can't be justified
👍
truth is most of them want easy money these days lol
:/
>Easy money
FY2s making 13 quid an hour.
Neurosurgery registrars with 10 years of experience post PMQ are making ONLY 28 quid per hour. Are you serious?
And please for the love of God, do not compare pay in the UK to 3rd world countries like other commenters have, compare it to other western nations. Your comment is an insult to the hard working junior doctors of this country.
Please, please stop putting that red on your lips, you are so beautiful without it, please don't use it, it's really not the right colour for you
It's not red lipstick ✌️
Why not make your own videos 🤷
....