Why Do People Leave Their Childhood Religions?
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- čas přidán 24. 11. 2019
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People often seem to follow the religion of their parents. But why? And why do so many people leave their religious upbringing too? The answer may have something to do with "practicing what you preach."
Special thanks to my friend and colleague, John Balch, who co-wrote this episode. He is a PhD candidate in religious studies at Boston University.
Follow me on Twitter: @andrewmarkhenry
I asked my mom when i was younger “if our religion says it’s the one true way and another religion says it’s the one true way how do you know which is right?” Her response was to say our religion wasn’t a religion it was the truth and then she grounded me for questioning it. That and the act of her burning a greek mythology book i had because of school pretty much turned me off to her “truth” I pretty much thought that anything that Is against learning is not something that I’m going to be in favor of.
@@karelkrajicek6607 It's a common christian practice as well for items that are considered to be associated with wicked things.
@@karelkrajicek6607 there are still christians that burn books.
Funny, my parents did the opposite to me
A ‘while’ ago I was planning on shredding these old books(Ann Frank, I gathered dozens of the same copy, but they weren’t the only ones) during the time I was into recycling old paper, but they both stopped me verbally about what I was doing
They’re both extremely religious, but value the importance of books(not only book but anything relating to history) of any kind as ‘they remind us how far we’ve come, and if we destroy them we’ll forget and repeat the errors we made
So I’m against the destruction of historical monuments/statues(anything really)
Always have but my parents help add extra sympathy towards books, even if there’s ‘plenty’ of copies.
With old history books differing greatly in comparison to newer ones
I’ll take it to keep them as an antique even if it’s full of wrong, bias, or errors
*grats on anyone making it through my jumble of words xd, grammar is not my strength*
@@karelkrajicek6607 Nice. Randomly provoke another group.
@@sharroon7574 as a catholic christian myself I have never seen nor heard of any christian burning books. (I'm not counting crazy people that might be shown on the news or internet but from people I know personally). In fact I would read books about greek mythology when I was a pre-teen and as a teenager I read a lot about the theories of evolution and genetics and i liked it so much I studied microbiology at college.
Parents forcing they're religion to their children and not letting them choose their own faith makes them grew bitter of their childhood religion.
yep. i used to seriously hate christianity. like HATE it. as grew up and made my peace with my religious trauma i was able to enjoy the myths. still hard not to be bitter at times tho.
@@oatmeal7563 same in turkey. There a lot of pressure you can'time even argue about these things. Especially around some specificly strict people groups. They can even beat you for just considering any hesitation
Well, I'd say it depends. Where I'm from (France) people who are raised catholic tend to remain that way. Our country used to be overwhelmingly christian but now it's only about 5% of the population that shows up for sunday mass. As a result, those who are raised in practising families see that as an important and distinctive part os their identities. Also if they renounced the faith their relationships with their families and childhood friends would most likely be strained. So basically catholicism which used to be mainstream is now basically a sect and keeps people under its influence for the same reasons.
That is objectively not true, but okay.
Agree especially if they curse you for not following their faith like my Dad did.
"But you notice that the mushroom recommenders aren't actually eating the mushrooms themselves."
I knew it! Mario is a hypocritical evangelical at heart.
Mamma Mia!
Sadly true...
@@ScrawnyTreeDemon simp
@@firemangan2731 ...?
I've actually seen him eat them tho
I remember when I was like 6 or 7 my mom came into my bedroom on Christmas Eve. She was telling my brother and I that Santa brought us some cool gifts and I responded by saying "But mom, Santa's not real!" thinking that she'd tell me how smart I was for knowing that it was my parents all along. Instead, she got really tense and said "Are you calling me a liar?"
Basically what happened when I left my religion. I thought people would be like “Well, duh! None actually believe it. It’s just fun rituals.” Not what happened...
@@alexwilliamns Didn't have that luxury. As soon as my father told me that he and his siblings would get hit for questioning God realized I definitely shouldn't come out to them while I still lived under them lol
@@84updown Oh yeah... I kept pretending for years. My whole social life was tied up in the religion...
Honestly for me I never had much of a social life and I was stubborn as mule, so once I decided to say I was an atheist I knew there was no going back.
Haha. So much for her credibility.
I left my religion because I wanted to hear atheists perspectives from actual atheists as well as theological arguments from theologians because I wanted to strengthen my faith. Needless to say it had the opposite result of what I intended.
Zachary Shaw 😂 😂 William Lane Craig?? That old coot who couldn’t answer a question about why god kills children in natural disasters convinced you? You’re funny.
@@brabbit330 It be that way with some people
Vails tend to fall away when gently swayed by truth.
@@brabbit330 in Bible it said that God created good and evil... Idk why the evil part is ignored by religious people and atheists alike... nothing can be omnipotent without having good and evil.
@Zachary you should check the new wave of atheism. I get why you got William Craig's arguments in his Kalam because it is a good argument for the existence of God, just to bypass the infinite regression that the argument else wise presents, but what if that is true, i mean an infinite regression. And the argument can not pinpoint to any deity, as being the true one, and none other argument that is valid can do that.
But the argument still brings some issues in regards to the same thing it wants to dissprove.
I mean that god is outside of time and all, but for something even more complex than the universe my logical brain still demands an expiration for its existence and just saying that he is outside of time does not cut it for me.
If you are in a foreign land unsure of what you can safely eat and you have two groups of locals telling you to eat different things, sidestep the problem and eat the locals.
the only right answer
They outnumber you and decide to eat you
Neolithic problems require Neolithic solutions
@@aud.a.4446 escape by eating the ground below them
That wasn't an obvious answer?
I'm an atheist of atheist parents. However I abandoned something else they practice: authoritarian culture, nationalism and harmful superstitiousness (is that a word?). So it doesn't apply only to religious beliefs but to beliefs in general.
Strange though, _authoritarian culture, nationalism and harmful superstitiousness_ is actually all an atheist stands against. So, I doubt you have been raised by atheists.
@@18dot7 atheists just don't believe in god. That's all they have in common. Any other things that tend to be attached to that are philosophies like humanism, equalism, scepticism and so on. Atheists raised in USSR are a special brand very different from their western neighbors. They tend to believe in all other made up supernatural nonsense, often poorly educated and completely lost when given personal freedom. They're often much more comfortable under tsar's heavy boot. As for nationalism, it doesn't go against atheism at all, they do not contradict each other in any way. It's just that governments figured out long ago that religion and nationalism go well together so you see them a lot as a pair.
@@AmberyTear - OK, my fault assuming atheists are humanists at the same time.
@@AmberyTear USSR and the Tsar? Okay.
@@user-ze3tq9hf9i there's a lot of sad absurdity about the effects USSR regime had on Russian society. It made them used to full obedience and no freedom, anyone with dignity or brains was killed off or send to gulags which is why modern Russia is made mostly of perfect slaves who remained alive. That's why nowadays they romanticise Tsar and actually prefer being told what to do and how to live rather than having freedom. :/ It's messed up...
My mom's a Jew, my dad is Hindu, they taught me too much and I ended up an atheist.
Both of my parents are preachers, my 2 brothers have been christian since childhood. I was and became Atheist. Cant imagine going back.
lol information overload... now i believe nothing
So you were a Hinjew
Lol! Both my parents are muslims and I left islam at the age of 15! Now identify as agnostic!
@@Dwa.myb21 Have your parents abandoned you ?
Interesting. I was raised strict Roman Catholic and have 3 siblings. Now adults, I am the only person in my family who still practices, even including my parents. Strange and lonely feeling at times.
I followed my grandfather into the catholic faith, he passed away last year and I felt it was left to me the responsibility of keeping the faith, as in my family only my mother still practices
when my mother told us we didn't have to attend mass anymore my siblings quit immediately. i hung in for another 6 months so she wouldn't completely freak out. i don't think my dad cared since he never mentioned religion even though he was raised in a catholic orphanage. i left and it wasn't but a few years before both my parents left. once one learns enough it's just not easy to go on believing in the supernatural.
wow
oh dang
im catholic tooo
I found the Santa myth most undermined by seeing the spoilt brat in my class, who always got in trouble, showing off that awesome present Santa got him - also I always got a good present even if I had got in trouble just before Christmas. Oh and sometimes Santa would leave me a note and I would think "Wow! Father Christmas and my Mum have very similar handwriting! What are the odds!?"
For me, part of it was, I called him Santa or Santy, but I heard that English people called him "Father Christmas", surely he'd have the same name universally?
@@justbeyondthecornerproduct3540 The American Santa is a combination of Sinterklass and Father Christmas. This is where the name Santa Claus comes from. Sinterklass comes from Saint Nicholas, while Father Christmas comes from the Germanic god Odin/Woden. A lot of people in Britain now however, have been Americanised to the point where he is known as Santa. It’s only really old people who still call him Father Christmas. Also Father Christmas used to wear green, whereas now he commonly wears red.
I am sorry other believers undermined your faith as a young child.
However, you must know: Santa Clause was still there.
Yes your mother wrote the note... but it was still Santa who delivered it to her.
Why judge the other kids? Were you perfect or something? Maybe they were good enough to receive that present. You don’t know. Maybe they slid back into their old ways without realizing.
The point is this: Santa still believes in you, even if you don’t believe in him. He’s watching out for you every step of the way. The last leftover cookie you almost didn’t get? That was his doing. That nice gift your girlfriend gave you? Who do you think told her you wanted it? You? Maybe... and maybe she knew before that.
But the point remains: reconsider your position, look at the evidence, and do t deny what you have witnessed.
As the old verse says: “seeing isn’t believing; believing is seeing (Santa’s Son, The Santa Clause 2)”.
@@jan_Kapije This is a joke because this is what strict Christians often write about god in a similar context.
@@jlupus8804 that's a good one
i stopped believing when I realized how much my parents were actually suffering for no good reason because of their faith
people are suffering because they believe in something?
@@enrico6176 it's not just believing. People do crazy things so that they can be blessed by the god
@@capcorn7872 yeah, those are called nutcracks. Most people, to be blessed, either do good deeds or are sorry for their sins. THe people who think we need to fight over religion are headless
What was ur parents’ religion?
did they get scammed by an evangelical or something
“In order to convince someone of something incredible, you have to be credible your self” basically walk the talk.
Excellent statement.
That's how I became a Christian.
That is also true for people who sell things. If you wouldn't buy it yourself, you will have a hard time convincing other to buy the thing.
I was raised Baptist’s by my grandparents although they never forced it on me. As I grew up I would ask questions about the faith that my grandfather answered. He’d always say that I should look for the answers myself and gave me my first children’s bible that I kept til my teen years ( cause I lost it accidentally) and it made everything easy to learn and understand and the pictures where actually top quality. But in my teens I also felt a lack of faith where I wouldn’t study or practice my faith anymore until I got into history. I don’t know about anyone else but when I found out how dark it actually was I became more interested. I am now a non denomination Christian and I’m always up for talking with atheist ( that don’t act just like the religious zealots they think all believers to be).
I do believe in a lot of scientific studies like evolution and I always saw science as a way for God let us progress and discover things for ourselves. God to me is like when your parents say you got to move out the house and have your own life, sure you can count on him but you have to make effort as well.
So to all the other Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus and Atheists I’ll still pray for all of your wellbeing and I hope we can come together as human beings just trying to make this world better before the day comes when we meet our ends.
Thanks.
Same lol
Your forgot the part where god tortures people for eternity if they arent a real christian...thanks for being loving though...i guess...
I can't say it was the same route that led me to being agnostic, but it sounds similar.
I can't believe in the god presented in the Bible and by my Grandmother's church. I clearly remember when at around 8 or 9 my Grandmother took me to church (which she did rarely, my parents never went.) and listening to the hymn they were singing. It was all about submission. Bow your head, sing his praises, obey without question, kneel before his throne. It conjured in my mind the imagery of slavery that we had just touched upon in class.
And why were we submitting and enslaving ourselves? Because he was just so wonderful, powerful and perfect that we had no other choice.
And then, over the years, I learned more and more about the actions of the church throughout history. About actual stories in the Bible.
The more I learned, the more it struck me as discordant and wrong. But, looking out at the world, seeing so much good and so much evil... I can't say there is nothing out there. I think we can't understand it anymore, if we ever did, but I can say I think it might be out there.
@@andg_rodg_4_real710 Feel free to quote the bible verse you got that from.
Being raised by abusive ultra religious parents made me realize religion doesn't make you a good person, so I stopped caring about it
It actually shakes my head how people believe that their religion is chosen by god but God didn't create a religion during Abraham's time they only worshipped God.i actually believe the problem here are the parents no offense.
not hating or trying to be rude, but just because believing in a religion doesnt make everyone a good person doesn't mean it is the fault of the religion itself, it is your abusive parents who are at fault
I don't think Y'all get it. Sure, it wasn't the religion's fault he was abused...but why would you continue on with a practice that brought on the abuse.
Fundamental Mormons marry multiple wives, in some clans, these wives are legally still children. Sure you can blame the parents for letting a man marry your child. but the parents were only doing what the religion taught them. If you escaped that abuse, would you still practice that abusive religion? bring your own children into it, teaching them the same things that your parents taught you while abusing you?
When someone beats you in the name of God, it's kinda hard to look at religion as anything good Especially as a child.
@@Melissa-wx4lu I understand, I amjust clarifying that yes Religion doesn't mean someone is good, but it doesn't mean that everyone who follows it is bad (like how if you drink tea not all of them taste the same) I just want to make sure since there are people who had a bad experience thus "everyone else is, but are denying it", it happens a lot and I just wanted to clarify. hope you understand
That’s why I fell away, but I regret letting how they acted influence my beliefs or influence anything about my life for that matter.
Most people: Products of their environment
Folks who start religions: "I don't wanna be a product of my environment. I want my environment to be a product of ME."
Lena Bean the white ones maybe, the black activists who had a dog in that race certainly had less abstract reasons to want civil rights.
Folks who make negative fanfic of religious figures: "I want historical facts to be a product of ME, that makes religions look bad compared to ME"
the biggest chads of this world
@@revimfadli4666 Bruh what?
@@HaHa-gg9dl people who make up stories to make religion look bad & themself look morally superior, explained in the same format
5:01 "They may catch their parents in the act"
-Religion For Breakfast, out of context
If anything will make you stop believing, it's that
Seggs 😳
"He can't keep getting away with this!"
It's a prayer. It's called missionary.
Funny thing happened after this video ended. An ad to buy a children’s book of the stories of the Bible played.
Ironic
@@paradisecityX0 ironic is not necessarily bad. I'm a protestant, so no anti bible bias, yet it's just funny that this is the kind of phenomenon the video talked about
@@paradisecityX0 actually I think great is diminishing it(I'm just playing with words for exalt God). God's word is way too beautiful for existing un this fallen world, in the sense that this world hate it. But ask God if He is "defeatable" lol. His word wasn't destroyed by this world, and never will, because God's hand grants it. The Lord Jesus taught so. Kids having the bible shows that the Gospel is indestructible. They have the faith of the patriarchs, Law, prophets and Gospels at their hands. Yeah, it's ironic but I love it. That's why I'll teach my baby sister, my children and frankly everyone that wants to listen about the God that wrote 66 books for us.
@The NIFB Jesus that's why the idea of holograms generating ads in the sky suck so much
@@paradisecityX0 why should people hera the bible over any other religion?
"Mom, what if it's Odin we meet on heaven, not Allah?"
_Your free trial of life under the roof has expired._
made me laugh out loud.
Now that's a religion I can get behind.
IT'S ACTUALLY ZEUS YOU HERETICS
but in order to be in asgard with odin you have to die in battle
@@YaBoiSneedMan I think we all know that if all the gods of every religion came together Jesus could just blink and they’ll disappear
This is fascinating because I'm the research subject here. I left my church and eventually religion entirely essentially right when I became an adult. My view on why I left (which is entirely subjective) is that Christianity in general and my church specifically claimed to have a monopoly on morality, happiness and living a good life that were clearly false once I got to know more people. Not sure where that fits if at all in the model presented.
"getting to know more people" = more/different creds (like the example of rejecting Santa Claus once you are exposed to more peers who do not believe it).
I've always hated religion. I've found my church boring and years of abuse and ostracization and seeing other people happy and rich. Just made me hate the church and religion in general to the point where I believe that I believe that God is not worthy of praise and worship and humans are a mistake that must be purged for the salvation of the Earth.
@@aliastheabnormal dude, chill.
@@aliastheabnormal well that escalated quickly
@@aliastheabnormal wow
I was raised by parents who were completely indifferent on religion, i think my grandmother told me about prayer one time when i was like 5. I grew up to be a devout Orthodox christian, guess I'm in the minority by quite a large margin.
Similar here. I was raised by totally atheist parents, went to mass like once or twice in my life and now I'm preparing to get baptised and enter the Catholic church.
@@duchstitneho Welcome to the church, we’re happy to have you!
Some people such as yourselves find solace in the faith religion offers to you. It can be for many reasons, but you have probably had experiences where the idea of god helped you.
Me too, oddly enough, down to being raised by atheists and becoming Orthodox Christian.
@@ReyaadGafur True, i always respected Christianity for shaping Europe (i am Czech), even though i was hardline New Atheist and was ridiculing believers (strange, i know). At high school i was interested in interwar catholic writers (i dont know if there some books by Jaroslav Durych translated in English but they are, you should read them) and when i read Orthodoxy by Chesterton and articles by Carl VI Schwarzenberg (Czech aristocrat and catholic writer), Catholicism started making sence. I found that Christianity for me just made world a more meaningful place.
I remember being staunchly against religion as kid despite being put into religious schools. This changed recently though as I learned about philosophy and the deeper stuff about the basis of religions, I started to have more of a respect for it and for the religious people I know who arent trying to encroach on others.
I have a certain respect for it, but I still don't believe in it
Me too it's a very interesting thing to read about
@@youraveragegamer8832 i have a respect for it, but not for those encroaching on others.
@@Rhaenarys Yeah. Too many people think that's okay
@@jypsridic I mean I kind of can't since theyre dead already it sounds like
The best religion channel on CZcams yet
It's pretty much the ONLY religion channel on CZcams.
@@BaggyMcPiper There are a lot of them, though this is the only one I know that takes a religious studies perspective. Ten Minute Bible Hour is one of my personal favourites. He has a series where he goes to churches of different denominations to learn about their theology and practices. Honestly I've had my mind blown by that channel a couple times.
@@Salsmachev same I like the way he present all the information
Ya czcams.com/video/zdR-I35Ladk/video.html
Yup and a very long upload to come🤔
From my experience, the best way to leave your faith is to read your holy book and learn about other religions.
Also understanding that the holy book is still pure when it was first made and no human words were put into it
Holy Books are so full of contradictions it's almost funny
@@cl0p38 To me I compare the perspectives of other religions stories if they are the same like the Quran and the bible some of them might be fake but many are similar.
I don't really need to leave my religion so that I can learn the perspective of other religions but I think if your in america parents just force you to choose one religion.
@@cl0p38 t. reddit user
So true! Also if your parents turn out to be abusive or neglectful, and they taught you a particular religion, you're more likely to question that religion. Partly because they're not "walking the walk", partly because you associate the religion with them, and partly because you don't want to be like them (and thus turn away from their affiliations).
Which happens with atheism too.
I very much relate
I think the better question is "Why don't more people leave their childhood religions?" When I was very young, I asked my father, "There are a lot of religions in the world. How do we know we picked the right one?" He said, "I just know." I mentioned that everyone probably thought they just knew, too, and I couldn't accept his answer, as he had been wrong about a lot of things I was learning in school--not being very educated himself--and I think that's when he smacked me across the face. I lost a lot of respect for him that day. And when In grew up, it occurred to me that "I just know" is the boiled-down answer most people give, whether they realize it or not.
Because I like to think we are actually here for a reason, and not just to eat sleep crap reproduce and eventually die where nothing awaits on the other side for us. Why where we in particular as a species given the gift of consciousness when no other life form on this planet was? There’s still much about the brain and subconscious that science does not know, it just seems horrible to think that we aren’t here for some kind of reason.
@@Crackedcripple just because it's a horrible thought doesn't mean, it isn't a possibility or the truth, look into evolution it will give you answers as to why we are here. As to cognition, humans are not alone in this ability our ancient cousins the neanderthals who had bigger brains, lived for hundreds of thousands of years and are now extinct and long gone. What was the purpose of their existence? What was the purpose of all the species and individuals, who suffered and are now long gone and forgotten. Existence only requires you to be breathing, meaning or a higher purpose doesn't enter the equation despite how horrible that may be.
my reasoning is it makes sense and I've had quite a few moments that are just illogical happen all seeming to happen around when I would talk to god
@@Crackedcripple awfully bold of you to assume no other species is conscious
@ඞ ඞ I need to point out that most animals have consciousness, even bugs. Many creatures even have sapience. They feel fear and joy, spite and thanks, revulsion and affection. They cry out in pain and can even communicate with each other and other animals (including us). Even plants communicate with one another in baffeling ways.
We may be special in our talents and capacity for abstract thought, but not alone.
Something to think about.
Interesting points, though they do not speak to my experience. I grew up Baptist, and remained convinced until I wasn't. In college, I realized that there is much in the Bible that a fundamentalist minister will not preach on, because it contradicts fundamentalist belief, nor does their church look anything like the early church. So I spent a lot of time, energy and the consternation of my family to find the Orthodox Church. So I didn't become pagan, Muslim or Jew, but to my family I became something equally foreign, joining a religion that neither they, nor I previously, had any acquaintance with.
Thats so cool! I went through the same thing! I grew up Pentacostal but I ended finding the Orthodox Church as well. I find a lot of younger American Christians have been finding the Orthodox Church
No offense but that’s really sad. It surprises me when people watch a scholarly channel and still fail to realize that religion is mythology people still believe in.
@@pansepot1490 I think if you watch other videos on this channel, you will see that "mythology people still believe in" is certainly NOT the scholarly opinion on religion...
@@pansepot1490 if you believe that then you haven't been paying attention to the videos. they talk about how rituals and religions are completely normal and an almost inescapable part of the human experience.
I grew up Greek Orthodox and I've noticed that most of the converts I've met grew up in one of the Protestant denominations. What was it about Orthodoxy that stood out to you both?
For many years I talked with my co-workers about religion. I made it known that if people had questions they could come to me. Any time I encountered people who grew up very religious but had fallen away they cited "hypocrisy" or "didn't practice what was preached." It's interesting to see it laid out so well. Looking forward to the next American Civil Religion vid :)
I left my church at 18 for similar reasons, but joined another shortly after. For years, I was completely immersed, teaching theology and scriptural classes, volunteering in mission projects, praying every day, reading my Bible and many scholarly level books for several years. But there was always this doubt. I felt like there was this silence. It began to fester, so I prayed for God to reveal himself to me. I began to feel depressed and insufficient. It got worse and worse, until one day I stood up and said "I need to figure this out." I then began to read everything I could from both Christian and secular sources about biblical history, theology, textual criticism. It got me no where. I finally, at 38, decided I just wasn't convinced God exists. That was it. I have been an atheist since. No amount of philosophical argument, science, or personal anecdote has had an effect on my belief. I spend all my free time on this subject too.
@@deluxeassortment just because you don't believe in the bible doesn't mean god doesn't exist. Have you tried reading other religious texts to see if it resonates with you?
James Wood Very True
@@xxxxxxxxxxxdfdszfgsz The problem is that most of these religions preach that their version of god is the only and true and all the other people believe in nonsense. The more you learn about religions from different sources, the more you're convinced this is all made up. That's why a lot of religious ppl who are convinced their god exists, read only their version of holy book, or even worse, don't read at all just allow their religious preachers to interpret that for them.
@@kaanana Eastern philosophies don't preach exclusivity about their correctness.. Give a try to Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism.
I think that the internet, and it’s ability to rapidly disseminate information that is problematic to religions, is also a major factor in the decline of religious attendance. It was probably the biggest factor in me leaving my childhood religion.
Because there's a difference between choosing to believe in something and that something being shoved down your throat with no say in the matter
Yes I agree with you that was my life when it comes down to religion having a fourth down my throat was not my idea of a good thing
My parents Religion be like "you are free to research, but only using our approved information sources edited by us... Of course you are free to go but if you do you wouldn't be able to speak to your faithful family again"
As a secret ex mormon I felt that
Jehovah's Witnesses?
Something similar happened to me with my family's atheism. They encouraged exploration but I was endlessly criticized when I did explore and left. I wasn't cut off though, just endlessly bullied.
Personally, I think the I internet played a large role in leaving my childhood faith. I had a lot of questions about my religion growing up and people didn't seem to answer my questions in a satisfactory way. Once I began Googling my questions and stopped filtering my results to sources I was predisposed to believe were more "credible", I came upon more scrutanous sources. I compared those answers to those of the "credible" and found that, more often than not, scrutiny wins the day over faith.
That doesn't make sense. Faith is meant to be faith on its own basis. Googling and not finding evidence is only likely. The internet cannot tell you what God knows.
@@thelegendgamer33 Let's look at an example. Let's say you were raised to be a Scientologist. Many specific claims were made about Hubbard, his teachings, the current leaders, psychology, etc. Now, you discover that there are facts which contradict some of what you were taught. You find stories of bad things happening to people as a result of the beliefs and practices you had believed were helpful. You find out that Scientology is widely considered fraudulent and dangerous. There are things you'd heard a little about but had always considered anti-Scientology lies that turn out to be true. How is your faith affected? Are you supposed to just keep believing because faith exists for its own sake?
PoptheBubble ChartLeaks Things like morals in the bible are too wishy washy to be evaluated with facts like that. You might be able to apply facts to things like the creation story, but how are supposed to apply facts to things like the law and what's right or wrong?
I still don't know exactly how Sam defines faith, but the values that feed into the superego through religion are much older and have undergone much more natural selection than any peer reviewed study on ethics you could find today, so it's pretty reasonable for people to naturally just trust a sacred text that's stood the course of thousands of years instead of using anecdotes from people with a half a life of experience, even if those people happen to be successful.
This only applies if he's talking about a kind of fact based faith like "I have faith that this chair will not break if I sit on it even though I don't know what it's made of simply because it's never broken before"
@@andrewprahst2529 You seem to be defining religion as Christianity and possibly Judaism. You seem to think that there is one morality in the Bible with one way of following it. That just isn't so. The morals haven't gone through some natural selection to create an ideal form. You can actually apply social science research to the theologies taught in religions. There is a whole growing industry of therapists with cultural competency to treat trauma caused by religious beliefs, practices, and institutions. I think you're trying to universalize whatever you grew up with. Let's go specific instead. I used the Scientology example for a reason. I suspect that this person was raised Mormon, as was I, but wasn't saying so to be polite. We were told that the LDS church came about in a certain way. It didn't. We were also told that there was a lot of anti-mormon material online which we shouldn't look at. It's common for people who start looking at the forbidden materials to start understanding them as reputable history, consumer reports, and discussions of culture and current events within a Mormon world which turns out to be bigger than they knew. There are a lot of facts which can be used to evaluate the deep well of information available in this case. Still, there are people from more mainstream Christian denominations who report similar experiences holding their denominations, the Bible and Christian history up to scrutiny and finding them lacking.
@@melissamybubbles6139 Well I guess I was defining religion as all the ones that have been around for awhile and are still around, including hinduism and bhuddism. I would consider both scientology and the LDS to be cults. Neither of them have been around very long and I don't think either of them will stand the test of time. The process of shakier belief systems getting weeded out like that is exactly the kind of natural selection I was talking about. I acknoledge the fact that many things have been thought about the Bible alone across time, but really only the belief systems that have proven useful and sustainable have stuck.
Maybe at some point all modern religion will be done away with via this process, but at the moment, I don't think there's any real secular substitute that provides the trancendant framework that the common man needs. I think this might come when the psychedelic experience is well understood and hallucinogens are regularly prescribed by doctors. Even then, when we can describe these superego brain processees with extreme precision, I think a beleif system like a religion will still be adhered to because no man can understand every facet his own mind.
By the way, I don't think people having bad experiences with a given community is evidence of their center-piece's failing. You could in fact have bad exeriences with some of the most respected systems on the planet. Things like the crusades or Catholic priest molestation are thought of as impurities.
I also don't think I'm universalizing what I grew up with, which was CMA Christianity fyi. Rather, I think many of the things I were taught were universal to begin with. I was often encouraged to question my faith and make it my own within the church. Any solid religion is tried and true. Ones that are isolated by order of doctorine are cults. That's why at the end of my first post I clarified "This only applies if he's talking about a kind of fact based faith". I don't consider ignoring data to support your beliefs to be faith. The faith I talk about is just what covers the universal gap in knowledge that no man can factually fill. That's where you have to use previous success to fuel your trajectory, and I think that's what faith in the religious sense is.
I remember when I first started exploring different religions! My mom threw up when she found a Buddhist book in the house lol.
Same here, and my family is atheist. Intolerance is intolerance.
Its interesting because in my case my parents were very good examples of the faith I was raised in. I did not develop a belief in the supernatural, but stayed committed because I thought my religion was a good way to raise a family, and even served a proselytizing mission to spread my religion. I ended up leaving because I saw that I was only a part of this religion because of my parents, and that if I had been an outside observer I would not have joined it.
I think the question should be flipped: "Why do people stay in the religions of their parents?"
Answer: Cr.E.D.s
This way of influencing happens all the time in our day-to-day life. Think about how many people believe in aliens or Darwin's evolutionary theory without ever doing any serious research in the truthfulness of those beliefs.
They believe them because they are given credibility through some source that they find credible.
@@eugenjude6945 you think people only believe in evolution because of credible people? I'm in a biology class right now and evolution is the best explanation for the diversity of life on Earth.
My professor is actually religious and makes a point to say he does not "believe" in evolution, he accepts it because its where all the evidence points to. That's what's so great about science. Follow the evidence and leave your feelings out of it.
Aliens and evolution should not be compared as equally false.
I somewhat agree. But I also strongly suspect that the perception that religion should be about belief in the supernatural is at least arguably rather recent. For most of human history it had more to do with tradition and loyalty to one's community than with actually purporting to believe in the existence of YHWH, Allah, Krishna or whatever.
@@Bolsonaro_em_Haia Community and tradition is exactly why I stayed in and even tried spreading my religion for as long as I did.
I think it is silly to outwardly practice a faith you don't believe on the inside just because of tradition though. I personally felt like a hypocrite and that is not a good way to live.
I agree with you flipping of the question. So I am still waiting to hear him really talk about why some people leave thei religion of their upbringing.
I also like your story about why you left - thinking it through with the thought experiement: would you have joined that religion had you not been raised in it? I too have often asked myself and then others: what would you believe had you not been what to believe?
I was raised in the non instrumental Churches of Christ and now I’m Catholic. I had a great childhood experience with my faith, but sometimes people change as they get older.
@Marie Baho Church history and the develop of doctrine. I love my Protestant heritage but it didn’t hold up to the way the church had historically looked, acted, and worshiped.
I am also a convert from atheism to Catholicism.
A few days ago, my little sister who is 8 asked me where did God come from. Shes very inquisitive like most young kids, but shes very smart and mostly uses common sense. I didnt know how to answer that question because I'm an atheist but she thinks I'm a Christian like the rest of our family. I said to her "he just always existed". She was still confused. I decided to cut the bs and told her that I didnt think God was real. She nodded and responded with, "the people at church always say you can talk to God and hear him. But whenever I close my eyes and pray, I never hear anything. Why are the people are chruch lying to us and why have mom and dad keep telling us this is true?" I just told my sister, "it's ok if you dont think God is real. Just dont tell mom or dad because theyll get mad." She then said "I already knew this before. That's why I decided to ask you because I knew you wouldnt get mad." I feel bad for my little sister. I can already tell she doenst want to be apart of this bs.
I'm glad you have a trustworthy relationship with your sister.
I hate religious people 😢
Any update now after 2 years?
Very interesting video! I myself have been raised up by Christian parents who displayed hypocritical behavior and often made me doubt my own beliefs from them not practicing what they preach essentially. However, I found that by discovering and looking into my own religion by myself I am more closer to my beliefs than I was before. My parents are a product of their environment to where their own parents didn't practice what they preached too. However I don't want to repeat a cycle of having a tragic life where my actions contradict my beliefs so I am striving to be more like the Bible teaches me to be. A Godly person. After all, beliefs are predicated on a person's actions. How can a person really say they believe in something when they aren't aligning themselves accordingly to that belief? This goes for every kind of belief system. Practice what u preach if u really believe it folks and end the cycle of confusion and hate.
Again what motivates my theological point of view. True adherens, of anything frankly, may it be religion, politics or sports teams, make their own decision on following that path. I know I'm not a Baptist because of my parents, my mother is spiritist and my father follows an afro-brazillian religion. But what about the members of my church? Frankly they also have to make their own decision.
While conversing with another woman about religion, her defense was that those in churches give each other "support." I agreed, and when I asked her if what they teach within the church is based on truth, she informed me that "truth" comes in many layers. That was news to me, as I always thought that only lies came in layers. We can't search for truth, and at the same time, claim to know truth. The search for truth keeps us moving ... while claiming to know truth brings us to a halt in the egotistical mindset of, "I have arrived at my destination, so I don’t have to search any farther." Maybe it’s best to believe that truth (if it even exists) is always one step ahead of us.
"Do as I say, not as I do" (or some version of this) is a phrase I heard too often from adults when I was growing up. Teachers, parents, family, friends, everyone. It seemed that practically everyone said to do things differently than they themselves did. Over the years since, I have gone on my own path concerning religion and spiritual beliefs. It's hard to follow a religion when very few of the followers of that religion actually follow that religion. It's even harder to follow that religion when even the authority figures in that religion can't follow it. Then when you factor in "errors" with the religion based on misinterpretations and/or misunderstanding and/or lack of education in the religion, it all looks very silly.
Take Christianity and the stance against homosexuality. A hot topic. Well, the verses that condemn "homosexuality" is actually condemning sexual relations with children. More specifically, adult male with child male, which was too common in Rome. I couldn't actually find any real condemnation of homosexuality in the Bible, yet you have so many Christians and Jews condemning it. When someone who doesn't even follow your religion knows more about your religion than you do, it kind of makes your religious followers seem like idiots and not people to be trusted concerning that religion.
When I was younger, I asked authority figures in the Christian religion many apparently hard questions that none of them could answer. Later in life, I found the answers for myself. I don't consider myself all that intelligent, and if I can find the answers, why can't the authority figures?
i was raised with a moderate amount of religion and found myself questioning it at around 7, once I saw that most of my peers had a different religion (Christianity), I became an atheist at around 11 (as soon as I started secondary school), I then found myself drifting around a learning more about other religions. I incorporated some Taoist philosophy into my life ideology (because I found it mentally helpful and liked the lack of focus on the idea of a creator) and even briefly considered converting to Christianity at around 14 - later realising that I didnt hold a genuine belief and just wanted to be the same as my peers. by around 17, I found myself ending up as an agnostic theist in the same faith I'd been brought up in. I think religion is mostly social, rather than being focused on a belief in the creator.
@Frizzurd you've definitely misunderstood what I have said. there's nothing wrong with recognising the social utility of religion as a cultural thing and still engaging with religion, despite having no belief in a literal Gd.
@@dm7626 So that would make you an atheist? An atheist is just someone who doesn't believe in a literal God.
@@chillinturt1059 I don't not believe.
@@dm7626 So when you said "despite having no belief in a literal God" you where talking about that other guy and not yourself? If so, that's cool I just misunderstood. Otherwise, by definition someone who holds no belief in literal gods is an atheist.
@@chillinturt1059 yeah, sorry if I confused you, lots of people I know are atheists but still engage with religion as a cultural thing, I doubt I even know many genuine theists tbh.
please please, if you can't add Closed Captions, at least open the "auto" CC on your videos
deaf moment?
To this day, I distinctly remember the horror I felt when a kid freaked out at me after I told him Santa wasn't real. To be clear, we were the same age and this was in third grade. Humans are literal demons.
Wait so he really doesn't exist?
@@Lexyvil As far as I can tell, my mom was the Santa Claus, so no, he doesn't exist. For the record, I was a good child so, once when I didn't get any sort of present, even though I was a good kid all year, I didn't get anything and that's when it all poured down on me, that my classmates were correct, he wasn't real. What reason would be there for me to not get anything, even a cookie or something if he actually existed? That, and the many times I had witnessed mom putting stuff around the tree and etc 🤔
@@Lexyvil he did he was called st nicholas, a priest who gives gifts and stuff during christmas and on people who were needing the most. Thats where the santa we all know was based.
@@Lexyvil of course he’s real. If not explain how your parents can visit every house in one night.
Checkmate atheists.
Also because I know someone is going to take this comment seriously I’ll clarify, it’s just a joke
It's like when you admire a painting of forest but someone points out one day there is a man standing ominously behind one of the trees. You can't see that metaphorical picture the same way even though everyone still admires it. Even when people try to recontextualize the man or paint over it you know it was there and you may never look at the painting same way you did before you saw it.
When I first realized, at 21 years old, that I didn't want to believe in God the way I had been taught, I felt very weird. I realized I was being taught that God's love was very conditional. My initial reaction was, "I wish I hadn't had my realization," but ultimately, I'm really glad I did and left, and I'm now on my own spiritual path.
What you've described here is probably descriptive of the majority of cases, but I'd like to talk about my minority case. I had been raised in a protestant family, gone to a christian private school and was well educated on systematic theology. I had an internally consistent theological understanding but at no point ever felt any deep emotional investment in religion. I never felt any connection to other christians. Every action ascociated with my religion was purely out of a sense of duty. I found most sermons to be dull and prefered listening to athiests speak because I found them more intellectually stimulating. During my later years of highschool I began reading works on philosophy and psychology independantly because I wanted anything more interesting than what was being said on the pulpit. I was also a depressed teen in denial of the fact that I was depressed and incapable of forming meaningful relationships, but that's getting into a different topic. Anyway, eventually I came across the works of CJ Jung, and in one of them he talks about moral codes which he called "creeds" and about religious convictions on a deep subconscious level. Eventually I came to realize that I liked the lifestyle that Christianity encouraged, but never had any faith, any subconscious, emotional conviction. In his other works he stresses bringing unity between the unconcious and concious mind and the more that I focused on this the more I realized that I always had a split between my gut feelings and the theological system that I consciously developed. I can't prove that there is no God but I'm inclined to believe otherwise.
Well that was tl;dr. I hope that you enjoyed reading this.
I enjoyed.
I am currently reading Jungian works as well. It’s funny how similar our cases are,sadly I am still trying to wrap my head around everything around me. I hope to find inner peace on this journey
The problem these days, that some may twist faith to fundamentalism. That creates a toxic atmosphere for spiritual growth... & I am just saying.
That's the whole point of some important people on what was called the evangelical movement, being faithful and really orthodox, yet leaving the toxicity of the fundamentalist movement that preceded it. It was an orthodox opposition to both fundamentalism and theological liberalism.
Not advocating here, just sharing a trivia fact
It's a fact!
I adored my Grandmother’s devotion to the Catholic Church, when I was young. I’m always with her in their rosary meetings, I’ve always been one of the readers every feast of our Patron Saint. I have always loved our religious culture and traditions. But then, one day a Mosque was founded within our village, it then quickly touched my curiosity. So I started asking my grandma, but her answers didn’t satisfy me. So I started searching about islam, then I discovered whole lots of other religions. On that one night of reading articles about different religions, I thought to my self “There’s more to life than being religious”. I then labeled my own self as a free believer. Not an atheist, because I believe that there’s a one true God and it’s not omnipotent, not omniscient not omnipresent, nor omnibenevolent. But rather just a Creator or a Grand Originator of life/energy. I just don’t believe that there are some Magic Spirit Guys up in the sky that controls the flow of life.
And I wont fight you for your Religious Belief, for as a Free Believer, I respect your freedom of belief and you’re free to believe what ever pleases you.
I believe in Allah, I saw a lot too and I wont give up of My dear Allah.
I converted to Catholicism from atheism.
@@vedatandkanakithegreatfami3012 Actually hinduism was the only proven religion proven in 2015 after dwarka,vrindavan,ram set bridge,and ancient tribal scrolls were found. And in hinduism there is a group of atheist chakrava they dont belive in god and worship but in peaceful hindu tecahings
Magic Spirit Guys
@@beautifulspirit7420 Catholic dramatized people .
For me, I changed religion because I perceived the internal inconsistency of the belief system. In addition, the beliefs contradicted my observations and intuitions of the world.
Same. But it took time. Plus it seemed like a number of them seemed to violate the guidelines of the religion with little repercussions.
@@jackkraken3888 - Yes, that too
I've quite thoroughly explored at least 6 religions, and it happens in all of them. People don't walk their talk, and don't know enough of their own beliefs to explain discrepancies (sometimes, not even religious leaders do, as I learned), so they resort to book-thumping. Just like the CREDs and CRUDs Andrew mentions here.
I have atheist parents and I have found out about religion myself. If you learn and practice it yourself, you would have a much better time than being forced to. I‘m muslim and thankfully my parents respect my decision. Kisses to all❤❤
Reading the stories of those who left gives me the impression that in many cases it might be also social pressure within a group that also tends to keep the children, even if they don't really believe it. Otherwise they might get ostracized or even killed if word gets out about their changed beliefs.
One of the kindergarten age children at work thought he should pray to Santa. I started to explain why he was wrong then gave up. Lol theological debates never go well with 4 year olds.
heh yeah
Santa is literally St. Nicholas, and the Catholic faith prescribes praying to specific saints to achieve results. He is the patron saint of sailors, children, wolves and pawnbrokers, among others. So the kid was right and you were wrong.
talking to yourself while saying santa is just as effective as talking to yourself while saying jesus
As an ex-Christian, myself, it took dating a Christian girl outside of my social group, separating from my existing social group, a painful breakup, remaining separated from my previous social group, and lots of CZcams videos for me to change to be an Atheist. That process took about 10 years.
Although, I could say that it took even longer because even from a very early age, I had always thought that it was silly to do certain things or have certain facial expressions while in worship or prayer. It all seemed fake, so it faked it myself because I didn’t want to be shunned.
That's why high-demand religions usually strongly encourage people to only marry in the faith you were raised. And if you can't marry outside the faith, there's no reason to date outside the faith, according to them. But if you do date outside the faith, you have to convert them before you can marry them. I grew up Mormon. They have a whole system set up for ensuring you find a partner in their church. But I dated outside the church and eventually left. So glad I'm out! 😀
My parents' entire life was built around their church. I was an only child, and a shy introvert. You might think I would be an ideal candidate for remaining in my parents' church. Unfortunately, though, I have encountered in what has become a long lifetime an series of what I could only call appalling priests. People who viewed their priesthood entirely as a power game, and didn't care who they hurt as long as their power was maintained. After the nth bruising, I finally realized that I was done with being their punching bag.
Being the son of an emotionally (spiritually) abusive father who took the open statement by the church we’re “emotional beings” as a suggestion on how not to leave visible marks and “Gods infinite forgiveness” an excuse for his actions as well as not dealing with his own demons, I can firmly say nothing poisons the soul against ANY belief system more effectively like hypocrisy.
That's exactly my situation! My dad knew the bible better than everything else in life, but took the word of forgiveness as a crutch and free pass to do absolutely horrendous things. His never ending cycle of hypocrisy was my best teacher
So are CRedibility Undermining Displays called CRUDs?
Doesn’t have the same ring to it...but yeah I guess that would be the acronym!
Is this supposed to be a crossover religion/DBA joke?
Create, Read, Update, Delete?
@@ReligionForBreakfast oh, it has a ring to it, just not one most would want to hear or wear.
It's all about The Croods....
🤔
I left because I was raised to believe a lie and whenever I asked questions, I was told off and yelled at for it. If you're told not to ask questions, something is wrong.
These are the problems with most of those people they don't seem to know the perspective of another religion now it's more of a tool than faith.
I can relate, the same happened to me.
"How God created earth?" "He ordered it to be created in 7 days"
"If God created us all, who created him?" "God has always existed"
"But how is it possible that God was never born before and has lived an infinite amount of time?" "Because he is God and he can do whatever he wants"
"And how you know that God exists?" "Just shut up and believe everything Im telling you!"
Thats why I left religion, nothing of it made any sense, it was so stupid for me. My parents wanted me to suck it up and to not question their beliefs although they didnt make sense.
@@josefstalin7033 you can actually find all of those answers in the Qur'an and also hadists,
"How god created earth?" He created it in only 6 days And also simultaneously created the heavens and all that is beetween them in surah Al A'raf chapter 7 verse 54
"If god created us all, who created him?" God is uncreated, he is our creator and no one is higher than him just like in Surah Al Ikhlas Chapter 112 verse 1-4 "say he is allah one and only, allah the eternal refuge, he neither begets nor is born, nor is there to him any equivalent."
"And how you know that god exist?" Thats why the prophets are created, To deliver the message to all humans. The quran isnt just for the arabs, isnt just for the muslims, but for all of humanity surah Al An'am chapter 6 verse 90. the quran is the furqon, the Bil Haq (truth), its a book of signs for all of the humans, for all that submits their will to almighty god.
It was bring down to earth by Archangel Gabriel by the will of Allah to deliver it to prophet muhammad saw (pbuh) 1400 hundreds years ago,
the first scientific breakthrough is that the moonlight is actually a sunlight that shines on the moon and bounces off By leonardo da vinci 500 years ago, now by going by that logic, the quran is Gods words. he explained everything in the quran, cleared every misconceptions of the other holy books (torah, zabur, and injeel (bible)).
No one can explain something that we dont know other than the creator himself.
@@argennova5618 Qur'an has so many contradictions with itself and science. First inner contradiction in Islam itself is that we God knows what are we doing to do, that God used his pen to determine all of our life decisions and everything that happens, God gives us free will to do whatever we want,God gives permission to people to beilive in him and sealing of hearts from people whom he does not want to beilive. This is all in Qur'an but I don't really have to write it out word for word from Qur'an. Scientificall contradictions are present really hard in Quran that also claims to be the purest and most scientific book ever which in fact it isn't. He said that earth has been laid like a bad and simoltaniously made 7 heavens and 7 earths which you mentioned . Earth is a sphere but what could someone from a 7th century paganic Arabia know about spherical earth. It is mentioned that sun goes under the earth to ask Allah for a permission to raise again. Which also does not make any sense. Also why wasn't Qur'an fully revealed to people at the time rather taking decades to finish it. Obviously so Muhammed can write whatever problem he has and whatever answer he needs to tell to the people. Why did it finish upon his death? Obviously because creator of Qur'an has died. Look at it with logic rather than just beiliveing
@@MrKruska11 brother, you ask very good questions, very common questions, if u are an atheist i congratulate you! Because you are a thinking bunch, you have believed half of the islamic syahadah which is "there is no god-" = "la illa ha-" , insyaallah i will answer all of ur questions and insyaallah maybe u will be convinced and say the rest of the syahadah which is "illallah" = "-but allah."
Brother, u ask 5 questions i believe,
God knows what were going to do, god gives us free will to do whatever we want, and god gives permission to people who believe in him and seals the heart of the nonbelievers, the sun goes under the earth to ask for allah's permission to raise again, and also why whasnt the Quran revealed back there?
First of all brother, the Quran isnt a book of science, its a book of *Signs* from Almighty god, there are 600+ signs, 600+ ayats in the Quran and all of the signs has been proven scientifically, 80% of quran's signs is right one of them is proving the moon does not have its own light, in fact its only the sunlight's that bounces of into it. This fact is mention in the Quran 1400 years ago in surah Al Furqon chapter 25 verse 61 "Blessed is he who made the constellation in the skies and place therein a Lamp and a moon giving light" and also Surah Yunus chapter 10 verse 5 "It is He who made the sun tobe a shining glory and the moon to be the light of beauty."
And the rest 20% is either right either wrong, my logic is, if the quran's 80% is proven to be 100% true then insyaallah the remaining 20% will be right.
Who else could mention that 1400 years ago? This fact that the moon is found out only be refletcting the sunlight is discovered 500years ago by leonardo the vinci. the Quran is Bil Haq and no one can mention it other that Almighty God Allah swt.
God knows our actions and he gives us free will and also he gives permission to that who believe in him and seals the heart of the nonbelievers. Brother, logically allah swt. has given us free will as a test, before we were even born we were asked one by one even humans back in the day that has already died by Almighty God if we want to be a human. If we follow his teachings and Then we will be even higher than the angels and even glorified in the kingdoms of heaven, but if we decide to choose to deny Allah's righteous path it is your choice, by that point youre even lower than iblees. And also Allah gives guidance to those who belives in him and "Allah has placed their heart and hearing, and theyre closed from accepting allah's guidance." Surah al baqarah chapter 2 verse 6 and verse 7 goes "Indeed thlse who disbelieves it is all the same for them wether you warn them or do not warn them they will not believe . allah has a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil and for them is a great punishment."
Indeed bother, these questions are very good questions, very common i should say. allah swt.has given us free will and it is our decision to decide to either follow the righteous path or the wronged path, And it is also mention in the quran that allah knows the secrets of hearts, and why is God so unjust? No the fact that god already asked us if we want to be a human or not its not God's fault its our fault. god knows if he creates another being that doesnt have a free will its only gonna worship him, like the angels.
thats why God created the human, the ability to choose, free will, and it is a test for all humankind, if we succeed we will be higher than the angels and also be glorified in the kingdom of heavens.
"The sun traveled for its fixed term, that is the design of the almighty, all knowing,." Ya siin chapter 36 verse 38
"It goes and prostates beneath the throne, then it asks for permission (to rise) and permission was given to it.-"
This hadith is a very common question, the first critism is ghe claim that the hadith somehow suggests that the sun is rotating around the earth (geocentric) when in reality, it is the earth that is orbiting around the sun (heliocentric) and on its own axis gives us the impression of sunset and sunrise. now, this contention can easily be resolved by pointing out that the prophet muhammad saw. (Pbuh) here is speaking in the context of how things *APPEAR* to be from the earth, *not* how as they really exist. A resident of this planet observes the sun moving from sunrise to sunset and not the earth.
therefore, the Prophet muhammad (pbuh) is trying to describe the phenomenon to a 7th century arabs in words that he will understand because the sun is moving is what *appears* to him from earth
"And you would have seen the sun, as it rose, inclining away from their cave to the right, and as it set, declining away from them to the left, while they lay in its open space.1 That is one of the signs of Allah. Whoever Allah guides is truly guided. But whoever He leaves to stray, you will never find for them a guiding mentor.
And [had you been present], you would see the sun when it rose, inclining away from their cave on the right, and when it set, passing away from them on the left, while they were [lying] within an open space thereof. That was from the signs of Allah. He whom Allah guides is the [rightly] guided, but he whom He sends astray - never will you find for him a protecting guide." Al kahf surah 17 verse 17
Now this verse is mentioned in the quran to show how it appears to us, how the sun moves from our perspective. allah tells us this but he also mentions in the quran that the phenomenon of our whole solar system on a move is in complete harmony in surah ya siin chapter 36 verse 40 "it is not allowable for the sun to *reach* the moon, nor does the night overtake the day, but *each*, in an orbit is swimming."
Why wasnt the quran revealed from the very beginning?
Now brother, the quran is the last and final holy book, the contents of it is so mindblowing and so sacred that the humans before prophet muhammed (pbuh) still cant comprehend that knowledge.
Example, someone's dream is that he wants to be doctor
in order to be a doctor you have to learn first, learn the basics and then raise your ranks from nursery school until you become a doctor. Thats why previous holy books have been bring down by allah swt. it is as a basic guide
Example is the Injeel, the bible it is bring down upon to jesus (pbuh) from a verse of the bible Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14
12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you."
This verse is mentioning none other than the last and final prophet, prophet muhammad (pbuh)
The other holy books were bring down only to jews back then, buthe Quran, it is bring down to the face of the earth to guide every humankind as it is the last commandments. this is mention in surah Al An'am chapter 6 verse 90
"These ˹prophets˺ were ˹rightly˺ guided by Allah, so follow their guidance. Say, “I ask no reward of you for this ˹Quran˺-it is a reminder to the whole world.”
And other places in the quran etc.
I became educated. Also seeing all the hypocrites and abuse.
My religion/spirituality actually mostly came from my Mom and Grandma because my dad is a theist because of this I had a healthy questioning of religion as a kid and it allowed me to find what suited me best which is paganism/ Wicca
I read the Bible and turned some phrases into the language it was originally written and what the words meant than learned how to the writers wrote and it strengthened my faith. From deist to theist.
learning hermenutics and reading the Bible is its original language and context solidified my faith more than anything else. All the people that argue the Bible's "contradictions" and take verses out of context don't actually understand what the verse are talking about.
@@danielparham5232
Maybe Islam had that part right--don't translate the holy book, make people learn the holy book's language (hebrew/Greek, arabic, old norse, Sanskrit, etc)
@@user-nf9xc7ww7m you realize there are many versions of the quran
@@jakamsoohia7492 their all written in different dialects the message is still the same
It's really interesting to think about. Having thought about it, I think I was raised very similarly to how both of my parents were raised: They're Christians, but they focus on the real world way more than they dwell on Christianity. Both my parents and myself were raised going to church on Sunday, but we otherwise spent time listening to almost any music we wanted from young ages, and hanging out with friends who weren't Christian at all, and generally having a normal childhood. The most notable difference between mine and my parents' upbringing might be that they ended up remaining Christians, while I have since moved on.
The first existential crisis I noted among my peers was usually discovering there is No Santa Claus. What else are adults lying about? And so it begins.
What?there's no santa??It took me 22 years to uncover this lie,My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
My relationship with Santa always felt unique. My parents never answered questions directly, if I asked "Is Santa real?" they would reply, "Well, what do you think?" no matter how many times I asked. It led my dumb 5 y/o brain to come to the realization that "flying reindeer seems unrealistic, and how can Santa even fit down our chimney? our chimney is way too small! and he brings things like bikes down too!".... and my parents wonder why I'm an agnostic, lol.
I’m LGBT and my parents threw me in conversion therapy and my dad said and did unspeakably awful things to me which made me decide “anything they’re apart of is evil”. I don’t think Christianity is evil anymore but I still want nothing to do with it because of the trauma
I feel your pain. I wish I could give you a hug
Can't say this lines up with why I left mine, but this gives me a lot think about. Thanks for the great videos
Literally watching this during breakfast. Splendid video!
So many people needs to understand what you just said in this video. It's excellent.
My religious parents think my atheism is "just a phase" and when I will be wiser I'll return to faith. On the other hand I think their faith is "just a phase" to give them comfort.
No one can win this argument against the other. It's been 15 years since we started arguing. We are all tired of it.
I really love your channel man. Great content. I grew up in a very strict religion that I’ve since left and have used a few of your past videos as jumping off points in my own research.
I was honestly worried when I clicked on this video, as I thought it might be a theology channel but this video was just straight information! Keep up the great work!
I personally went on a journey of my own through my young preteen and teen years due to my religious beliefs being shaken given how so many people around the world commit atrocities in the name of their faith.
At first I was so atheistic I could be described as a zealot, but I've now firmly landed in a gray area where I believe some divine entity(s) exist, but it's just not my place to assume their motives, desires, history, or what they want from me.
Creating all these rules and guidelines through the lens of mortal biases is what causes people to use them to justify their wrongs.
Plus, godhood must be tough. You have to be distant enough where nobody becomes dependent on you to solve all their problems, but active enough to push things along as needed.
When things are done right, we shouldn't even be aware anything's been done at all.
So, I just accept that I can't know god, and I shouldn't assume god's nature. It's pointless, and our time is better spent on helping the community.
I like Futurama too
6:14 this is why I left my religion. I chose to ignore the hypocrisy for years until it became too much to bear. After this point i looked into doctrine, not the other way around. If it wasn't for the bad apples i never would have questioned what I grew up with.
I was raised Pentecostal, now as an adult born in the late 70's I still attend Pentecostal church. I did question my belief system that I was indoctrinated in during my youth. Eventually, I stayed with the faith of my upbringing
@David Voicecoil bro that's unfortunate. I've been able to say I have witnessed miracles, signs and wonders
@David Voicecoil I've seen healings take place, I've seen demons cast out of people.... God is amazing
@David Voicecoil this was back in the day when I was coming up in the church. I'm 3rd generation Pentecostal, been in it all my life 💯
@David Voicecoil God doesn't change, if he did it then, he's able to do it today
@David Voicecoil God can work through anyone that I believe
Another factor, maybe not present in the US, but present in many countries, is the effect of the power of one church alone. I live in a catholic county, and I was born and live many years in a town where an important catholic pilgrimage site is located. I lived 17 years there, I attended catholic schools all my life, there were more churches near my house than schools, everything was religion; I hated not being able to move properly in my own hometown because it was full of pilgrims on sundays, if I wanted to buy something, everything was more expensive because of the pilgrims, the church had always the last word in what happened in town, if a big activity like a concert or a festival wanted to be in town, they had to ask first the church and later the government, I hated that almost everything I did in that town had to do with the church, directly or indirectly. I left the catholic church because I was tired of the power of the church, the church has even started civil wars in my country in order to keep their privileges (that happened in the 19th century), and many times have been partners in crime with narcos and terrorist groups (some protestant churches have also been involved), some decades ago, the speaker of the most important catholic foundation of the country said that Pablo Escobar was a good guy and not a narco because he gave a lo to charity (I guess now what county I'm from is more obvious). I left the church like 5 years ago, I had to fight with my family, specially my grandma, and I was harassed by teachers and the principal of my catholic school because I didn't want to take part of prayers and services. I've been away from religion all those years, but lately I've been researching more, the lockdown made me rethink my religious life, and I kinda like the Orthodox Church, it's teachings and theology, there's only one Orthodox Church (a greek one) in the city where I live now (is a city of 8 million people), but it's kinda close to my college, so I hope I can give it a chance once the pandemic is over.
An ex-Muslim here greetings from Algeria
Another great video, I've always wondered about Religion and you have given me some excellent tools for analysis. This could explain why children of Policemen, Firefighters and Priests turn out the opposite some times, they see way too much behind the scenes.
That's actually a good analogy. When you parents live a type of experience that requires some adherence and commitment, the kids follow naturally. When the commitment is higher, the kids HAVE to make a decision, thus following truly or turning their backs.
I left my childhood religion which i was a pastor in due to deep research and study
Is your name after Tupac Amaru? :P
@@quetzalcoatl3242 yes and no, after tupac the rapper which is named after him
So glad I found this channel!!!! Great video!
I watched the whole video for content, and then went back because i was so fascinated by Andrew's facial expressions-namely the frequent arching of his right eyebrow and the marvelous side glance at about 1:50.
as a muslim with no kids, i say teach kids ur religion but dont force it, if they see value in it theyll practice with you
edit: I was born into a muslim family but grew into an agnostic cos I never really went into a proper institution to teach islam nor were my parents the best at teaching it, eventually I was in need for direction and the quran and the new testiment (as everyone around me is either muslim, christian, hindu or sikh and Im a monotheist so I already dismissed hinduism and I still dont know much about hinduism, Im yet to meet a genuinely religious sikh) and I also watched debates between muslims and christians online learning about both and found islam to be what I would call true
im not religious but it's hard to change ur religion if you're a Muslim because the concept God in islam is completely different than any other religion, so i don't bother to study other religion if I know their concept of God is not 1.
@@deviladvocate8620 i am a muslim my self and the first thing that turns us off is when you speak of many gods
trinity as an example in christianity
@@rain0aldwaib well Islam is technically a politeisthic religion becuase Muhammed himself is also praised really hard. Not as a god but he is praised so much for obvious reasons. When you enter the islam you say that you believe that Allah is god and his properth is Muhammed which makes a lot of sense because Muhammed made islam in which most of ex muslims including me beilive. He isn't mentioned as a god but is praised as a God.
@@MrKruska11 first time hearing this but aight
@@chonkycat2953 he could have done everything but still Muhammed is very much praised nearly as same as Allah. Not the same but really close
Interesting - can’t help but relate this to the debate surrounding faith schools.
I so appreciate your excellent videos, I learn so much from you. Thank you is not said enough today...I like to give credit where it is due...and you certainly earn it with every video you deliver. Thank You.
Extremely interesting! Thanks for sharing 🙂
It's interesting, because I've been through a very peculiar situation.
My mother presented me to Christianity and many varieties, but I was always a sceptic. Then, when I was 11, I was already declaring myself as an atheist. I used to think that everyone had their versions of the truth, but I always saw the rituals as very dumb and useless. I am one of those cases of someone that not even being raised in religion by people that loved me and still can't buy any of it.
As a deconvert from Christianity, I can say that hypocritical/bad behavior from religious authorities (specifically pastors) had zero impact on my opinion of Christianity itself. All it did was erode my trust in that specific church and the adults in that church to act morally when encountering... Well, let's just say the associate pastor got caught in an inappropriate relationship with a member of the Youth Group and the church responded by simply asking him to step down from his position. That was it. No one even considered calling the police - not even the girl's parents. My mother and I (my father and brother weren't there at the time) were both horrified and agreed not to go back to _that_ church. We just looked for a different church to attend instead.
My actual deconversion was actually initiated in Bible College. That's where I learned that there are known forgeries in the Bible - passages that were inserted as well as entire books of the Bible. Well, the professor just handed us a list (which didn't actually list all the known forgeries, just a few verses) and then added that no major doctrine is based solely on those passages. I decided to spend some time online doing some research and... that sort of opened up the gateway to realizing that there's a lot in Biblical scholarship that my professor was not telling us.
Not too long after that, I started debating with atheists online which only generated more questions that I didn't have answers to and that none of my professors could give coherent answers for. And as I spent more time thinking about the things that I'd long memorized since childhood but never actually really thought about the implications of those stories, I began to realize that I couldn't honestly say that Christianity offers a moral/just framework. And that led to outright rejection of Christianity itself. I didn't give up the notion of a creator god until 2 years later.
I think if I hadn't attended Bible College (which my mother talked me into), I probably would have stayed a Christian, but I would have eventually found myself in a much more "liberal" church - probably ABCUSA (American Baptist Churches USA) instead of GARBC (General Association of Regular Baptist Churches), the latter being the one I grew up in. My personal morals would have eventually forced a move out of my parents' denomination, but I doubt I would have gotten quite so in-depth in my critique of the religion itself if it weren't for attending Bible College.
This was very well done. Thank you.
My father is a chronic “church hopper”, by the time I was 16 I had been dragged to over 20 different churches (and being sent to 2 Christian schools, one a Jr. High the other high school) of varying denominations, strangely all no less than 30 minutes away with us ignored ring any church that was closer.
I seriously struggled with trying to understand why my father kept taking use to a different church so often and why my mother just went along with it. When I would ask, typically in thr context of wanting to keep the friends I made when my father announced a new church change I was always told “I can make new friends”.
In my 20’s I put my foot down and stopped going to church. A few years after that I attended a program on codependency and learned the pattern my father was displaying was no different than that of an addict or “womanizer”, they even had church listed as a potential codependent symptom (Christians childishly call it “ codependence on God” and largely don’t see it as a bad thing, at least not in the churches my father attends).
I learned that because of how my father was raised, the turmoil at home combined with the escapism he got from church molded him in such a way to be emotionally dependent on it the way an addict is with their drug of choice.
My fathers pattern treats church like someone to have an affair with. The distance allows him to “cut it off” when he needs to, the church hopping is him trying to find a church “just like his childhood one” and him taking us as he did was both social expectation and seeking of approval from us AND BECAUSE OF CHURCH CULTURE, WE COULDN’T SPEAK OUT.
I walked away NOT from a religion, but from a socially encouraged and highly destructive addiction that has replaced it.
They leave because of the hypocrisy, i guess.
I sometimes rolled my eyes too when the pastor started talking abt tithe for several weeks straight. I guess i'm quite lucky, my parents always taught me to learn from the Bible, rather than from my parents or pastor or anyone else.
Phi 3:12-14 & 1 Cor 13:13 I was at my lowest when i stumbled those verses. They changed my life completely, and i started reading Bible seriously ever since. Bible is just a wonderful book. There're plenty life lessons you could learn, beside some stories of miracles.
Centrioless how do you handle contradiction within the Bible?
chipsndips can be more specific ? Have you looked into apologetics.
Trent McComb I have, ive heard apologists explain why their interpretation is the correct one (using bible verses to back them up). However, there’s hundreds of denominations with slightly different views on the same book.
So when the persons says they learn from the book itself, and something seems confusing or contradictory (not just within the Bible, but with science, morality, and history) where do they get clarification from?
There's also plenty of genocide
@@sandraarriaga832 that seems to part of the problem with this whole sola scripture thing as It seems that it causes alot of problems I haven't seen/heard as much of from Catholics or Orthodox Christians
For me, it was education that led me out of religion. Sure, I saw inconsistencies in the religion of my parents that planted seeds of doubt, but without exposure to information, those seeds of doubt would never have taken root. There’s a strong correlation between the decline of religion and unfettered access to information. My parents walked the walk, and despite their devout adherence, I became an atheist.
I think it has caused certain religions to grow.
To me it happened the other way around, discrepancies in atheism led me to explore what else is out there.
@@news_internationale2035 yeah. Conspiracy theory religions.
@@zmnicvander which discrepancy is there in atheism?
What an excellent video! Well done.
ooo, so good, love the work!
Religion made no sense to me early on, in combo with being forced to attend day & evening services, evening services quite often dragging into the late night during school year, therefore easy for me to leave. No, I didn’t replace one religion with another, I am free.
Brother, by definitions you call yourself an atheist right?
Mashaallah brother, i congratulate you, you have believed half of the islamic syahadah which "La illa ha-" = "there is no god-" insyaallah by the will of Almighty God, he will give you hidayah to believe in the last half which is "-illallah." = "-but allah."
TLDR: we realized we were fed lies, we were traumatized, or we didn't like the way they said things went
Or all three.
I watched Carl Sagan’s Cosmos when I was 18, in an episode he stated “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” I’ve used that line several times. I am a Buddhist by practice and why I like is that there is no god, you don’t have to change anything.
I left the religion of my parents for 3 reasons:
1. It matters more to be a good Christian than to be human (act with Humanity)
2. It doesn't bear criticism or thought that diverge from the leadership.
3. There are too many Freaking hypocrite.
I was always critical from what I remember. I remember hearing Bible stories and the first thing I thought was "that can never happen. It makes no sense. Why are we pretending it happened for real. Lesson makes no sense ether. Why aren't we taking this story literally? Why are we skipping so many parts? Even my teacher says we read the whole book."
Brother, all of the answers of ur problems are all in the Quran.
I congratulate you, because youre one of the thinking bunchs.
as u might know that the bible is flawed, it is still not completed yet
even Jesus (pbuh) stated it himself in the Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14 12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.(A) 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth,(B) comes, he will guide you into all the truth.(C) He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.
Jesus (pbuh) is reffering none other than only Prophet muhammad (pbuh), the last and final messenger of God that is tasked to deliver the Last Testament which is the Quran.
For it being a message to all the world which is stated in Surah Al An' am chapter 6 verse 90
"These ˹prophets˺ were ˹rightly˺ guided by Allah, so follow their guidance. Say, “I ask no reward of you for this ˹Quran˺-it is a reminder to the whole world.”
I was forced into religion at school at a young age. We had to go to church and sing etc. I got really embarrassed, and every time I questioned if god was real, I'd get detention. Eventually I'd end up causing as much trouble as I could just to get out of church. Thankfully, it worked.
I've never thought about this in this way before. It makes a lot of anecdotal sense. Of the adults I know who are atheist, all of them either grew up in atheist households or grew up in religious households that clearly had credibility undermining displays in abundance. And the opposite seems to be true as well, but my experience is more limited with religious adults. The most well-adjusted people though tend to regularly take place in CREDs regardless of their belief systems or lack thereof, simply because they honestly believe whatever system they believe in and actively try to live by whatever creed they have.
Thanks for this.
A lot was going on in 1966 when I was 14. I stopped going to Boy Scouts and Stopped going to church.
For me my Mom was raised a Catholic but never sent me to Catholic church, but instead sent me to many Baptist churches mostly for Sunday Morning Sunday School. I felt the most bond with the Local AME church.
So I've never been Baptized and Me and God are probably tighter than most Christians. I ask nothing of him for myself as I grew up poor in the best country in the World. What better gift could I ever ask.
Wow your Super Mario references are pure genius.
So you’re telling me Santa is a childhood religion
Well when you say it like that...
Santa Hu-Akbar!
@@Perririri 😂😂😂
Thanks for your help!
Grew up with a Catholic education but identified as agnostic through highschool as i searched for other philosophies and schools of thought to explain the world. By chance happenings (or divine design), i was reintroduced to Catholicism recently and in a way that more fully satisfies my yearning for meaning and understanding than was ever presented to me. Now im willingly going out of my way as an adult to be confirmed in my faith and actively try to do my part as a true follower of Christ.
I converted to Catholicism from atheism at 19 and have been married to my Cradle Catholic husband for 25 years in June 2021.