Excellent explanation Blackie. And as for the bullet weight, 158 grain round nose .38 was the carry load for many police departments for years. It's dam near identical in FPS also. Our forefathers were no fools. They depended on these firearms to protect their lives. Thank you for all your hard work and time for these videos. It's a fascinating subject and I can hardly wait to see the next video. Sorry for rambling on.
There was a man most people have heard of who was considered extremely dangerous with a .36 Colt Navy revolver and he found it to be an effective manstopper . James Butler Hickok !
Thank you Blackie. I've said the same thing myself on many occasions. Black powder in some cases might be a little aneamic compared to modern stuff at times, but it'll still do as well as it did way back when. Powder charges aren't as critical as consistently getting your compression even shot to shot. I've always found black powder forgiving with the charge as compared to smokeless provided you crush it down well and use good primers or flints. In my experience increasing powder helps, but not as much as increasing pressure and ball diameter to capture gas better for performance at the target end. I'm still playing around with my various 44s trying to see where I start seeing deminished returns and honing in the right loads, especially with my new model Remington's. They seem to be the most finnicky. My sheriff seems to like about 20 grains with cornmeal filler to achieve the best accuracy. But I seem to get the best power around 30 grains. I'm looking for a different ball to see if I can figure out a load where I can have both. I've tried round ball from .451-.457 with out much success I've tried some tc Maxie balls and they've been a little better. I wish I had a mold for something like a Minnie to try. Not sure what that'd do.
i have tried .452 lead .45acp bullets before and got good accuracy..in a gun that would not group with round ball..every gun is unique..ya just gotta find what it likes
My carry of choice in the field is my Ruger Vaquero SS in 4 5/8” barrel in 45LC. I carry it in a Leather Crossdraw of my design... I have a sheriff mod Rem 1858 I’m looking at carrying as well... great vid
Very good explanation and an interesting topic! Black powder is something that I have only limited experience with but I am studying the topic to learn more for sure. I believe this is important knowledge to have.
The 36 is where if you made a good buckthorn or willow sulfurless black, it would really shine. Without the hydraulic press puck stage, the powder is only roughly 60% as dense, give or take. I found that on a hot day, you aren't losing ignition power without the messy sulfur, in fact, the volume of this fully effective powder, you can fit in a ton and it compresses very well. It seems to all ignite completely because it is louder than a stuffed Goex load with a 80 grain ball which does that thumping noise. This stuff cracks explosively, not much extra kick.
Load? My dad taught me to fill the chamber with powder and compress the ball on top of it. Now, all we shot was balls, which don't take up as much space as a conical bullet like you were using, but I imagine it would be just fine with a hollow base conical bullet as used back in the day. I don't think all that many folks worried about what weight charge they were using. They'd want as much 'ooph' as possible and thus load as my father taught me 50 years ago. The only time that might not be valid was with the use of paper cartridges, which would have a weighed/measured charge. And I wonder how much those were actually used..
That’s exactly my logic. Imagine loading up to face Comanches by carefully measuring no more than 20 grains. I always fill the chambers and compress the ball. When seated to the same depth in all chambers, accuracy is fine too.
Another great video, I have a question and it may just be something I missed, after you fill your powder measure and get to how much it holds in powder, and then you hold our bullet on your measure, does the difference between the inside diameter of your chamber and measure matter? Hope this was clear in what I am asking, thanks and keep the videos coming.
no its the volume we are checking..we know the ball will be sized to fit on loading..so the question is how much space inside the chamber will the ball /bullet take up..thats why i put the bullet at the top of the measure and saw how much was left on the scale ..20 -23 grains..so i started at 20 and added till it was right
I have no problem with your methodology, I think it makes perfect sense, an personally to back up your methods, I shoot a .22 mag rifle for hogs when I'm needing pork for the BBQ, an ft lbs of .22 mag is only like 350 ft lbs max. So your are correct in your loading procedures an we don't need to argue semantics of modern vs. black powder.
Blackie - in one of your previous videos in the percussion revolver series, you talked about using Lee Liquid Alox on your bullets for black powder revolvers. I know beeswax is a component in that stuff, but I'm sure there several others including some petroleum based ones. Have you ever experienced a problem with accuracy and/or tarring/sludge? I just lubed my latest castings with Alox and have yet to shoot them out of my Colt & Remington. A lot of on-line forums are saying Liquid Alox is a "no-no" for black powder. I'm assuming it is due to the fact there may be petroleum based products within. What is your take on it?
i did test for my onw use over a few yrs and found the alox was a good bullet lube for my modern and my percussion rounds..they coat is so thin no tar forms of if it does is so slight the next round removes it..i coat mine to good effect
Blackie, What black powder revolver would you recommend for a new black powder shooter to see if they like it or not? If you don't have a video covering this topic already, would you consider making one in the future?
Duelist1954 oes have a good channel and would encourage anyone interested in percussion revolver to check him out..as to what i would suggest....the remington `pattern..its feel is closer to our modern revolvers..and so is often a easy transition
You're still talking about delivering approximately 180 ftlbs. of energy coming from that pistol. It only takes 4 ftlbs. To kill a rabbit. That pistol is far more capable than some may think. You're talking mid size game with ease.
in a in line rifle they are great..but it a given load..and if like civil war renenactors use them to be blanks..i find the work up to the load give better accuracy
I have I had a look around and to be honest I am put off by the Italian guns. They all seem fragile and need fettling which is something I don't want to do too much as I am not good with my hands.
I am just scouting around for something a bit different to add on to my UK Firearms Certificate. We don't have the options available to the average American. Black powder revolvers represent good value and look to me to be a good way to learn about BP. Thanks for replying.
exactly..will a proper load work up..you will find that load it likes..every gun is unique..and once you find it that the load for the gun..if it is reliable and accurate..dont keep adding powder trying to make a bigger gun..often all it will do is boom louder and very little else
Hi Blackie, I have a couple specific questions on open top revolvers. Kind of a specific question that might take up some space. Do you have an email I can send to? Or just ask it here?
BLACKIE THOMAS Thanks for the reply but....I tend to avoid FB as I feel it’s more for the SJW’s or younger people. So,,, here goes,,,, I’m looking at buying one of the new cartridge versions of the open top Navy’s, and shooting cowboy type smokeless powder loads. And research has shown there are many many smokeless powders available that have pressure curves well Below that of BP. But as the Italian remakes are usually using soft Steele, how much stretch might be expected over time, and can the gap between the cylinder and the forcing cone be adjusted with custom wedges etc. later on? Thanks in advance.
asi understand the modern drop in ctg conversion cly.will handle off the shelf cowboy loads safely..since the cyl will hold the brunt of the pressure..as to wedges yes as they wear a new wedge can be easy fitted
yes in some case you can buy modern ammo for that...22-/36 sp/..357../44 mag/ all can be found in rifles as well as handguns..to shoot out of say a 30-30 will require a bit more work
Excellent explanation Blackie. And as for the bullet weight, 158 grain round nose .38 was the carry load for many police departments for years. It's dam near identical in FPS also. Our forefathers were no fools. They depended on these firearms to protect their lives. Thank you for all your hard work and time for these videos. It's a fascinating subject and I can hardly wait to see the next video. Sorry for rambling on.
There was a man most people have heard of who was considered extremely dangerous with a .36 Colt Navy revolver and he found it to be an effective manstopper . James Butler Hickok !
Great video with another Blackie instant classic line: “I’m not trying to stop a Buick.” Love yer channel!
“The rabbit weighs six pounds. I’m not trying to stop a Buick.”
LOL...right on. Great vid. 👍
Agree to many people get hung up with the modern, Great video.
Another great video Blackie! Very good explanation of your load development.
Thank you for the info Blackie. Another great vidio. Safe journies to you and your Family.
I enjoy your videos, you are a gifted teacher. Thank you.
Thank you Blackie. I've said the same thing myself on many occasions. Black powder in some cases might be a little aneamic compared to modern stuff at times, but it'll still do as well as it did way back when. Powder charges aren't as critical as consistently getting your compression even shot to shot. I've always found black powder forgiving with the charge as compared to smokeless provided you crush it down well and use good primers or flints. In my experience increasing powder helps, but not as much as increasing pressure and ball diameter to capture gas better for performance at the target end. I'm still playing around with my various 44s trying to see where I start seeing deminished returns and honing in the right loads, especially with my new model Remington's. They seem to be the most finnicky. My sheriff seems to like about 20 grains with cornmeal filler to achieve the best accuracy. But I seem to get the best power around 30 grains. I'm looking for a different ball to see if I can figure out a load where I can have both. I've tried round ball from .451-.457 with out much success I've tried some tc Maxie balls and they've been a little better. I wish I had a mold for something like a Minnie to try. Not sure what that'd do.
i have tried .452 lead .45acp bullets before and got good accuracy..in a gun that would not group with round ball..every gun is unique..ya just gotta find what it likes
Excellent video. Thanks.
My carry of choice in the field is my Ruger Vaquero SS in 4 5/8” barrel in 45LC. I carry it in a Leather Crossdraw of my design... I have a sheriff mod Rem 1858 I’m looking at carrying as well... great vid
Very good explanation and an interesting topic! Black powder is something that I have only limited experience with but I am studying the topic to learn more for sure. I believe this is important knowledge to have.
Ok that cleared up my 38 question ! Thanks blackie so target load ! Be good brother enjoy the vue
You are SO right!!
The 36 is where if you made a good buckthorn or willow sulfurless black, it would really shine. Without the hydraulic press puck stage, the powder is only roughly 60% as dense, give or take. I found that on a hot day, you aren't losing ignition power without the messy sulfur, in fact, the volume of this fully effective powder, you can fit in a ton and it compresses very well. It seems to all ignite completely because it is louder than a stuffed Goex load with a 80 grain ball which does that thumping noise. This stuff cracks explosively, not much extra kick.
DUELIST USES A 38 SPECIAL CARTRIDGE CASE FOR LOADING 36 CAL. FULL TO THE TOP IS 25 GRAINS PYRO P POWDER
chiefbiglew it's closer to 23gr actually
I’m surprised he uses Pyro P, that stuff is not near as good as real black powder, which I use
Your tiger was talking to you in the begining? WAR EAGLE!
maybe it has something to do with black powder versus the Pyrodex.
Load? My dad taught me to fill the chamber with powder and compress the ball on top of it. Now, all we shot was balls, which don't take up as much space as a conical bullet like you were using, but I imagine it would be just fine with a hollow base conical bullet as used back in the day.
I don't think all that many folks worried about what weight charge they were using. They'd want as much 'ooph' as possible and thus load as my father taught me 50 years ago. The only time that might not be valid was with the use of paper cartridges, which would have a weighed/measured charge. And I wonder how much those were actually used..
That’s exactly my logic. Imagine loading up to face Comanches by carefully measuring no more than 20 grains. I always fill the chambers and compress the ball. When seated to the same depth in all chambers, accuracy is fine too.
Another great video, I have a question and it may just be something I missed, after you fill your powder measure and get to how much it holds in powder, and then you hold our bullet on your measure, does the difference between the inside diameter of your chamber and measure matter? Hope this was clear in what I am asking, thanks and keep the videos coming.
no its the volume we are checking..we know the ball will be sized to fit on loading..so the question is how much space inside the chamber will the ball /bullet take up..thats why i put the bullet at the top of the measure and saw how much was left on the scale ..20 -23 grains..so i started at 20 and added till it was right
I have no problem with your methodology, I think it makes perfect sense, an personally to back up your methods, I shoot a .22 mag rifle for hogs when I'm needing pork for the BBQ, an ft lbs of .22 mag is only like 350 ft lbs max. So your are correct in your loading procedures an we don't need to argue semantics of modern vs. black powder.
Blackie - in one of your previous videos in the percussion revolver series, you talked about using Lee Liquid Alox on your bullets for black powder revolvers. I know beeswax is a component in that stuff, but I'm sure there several others including some petroleum based ones. Have you ever experienced a problem with accuracy and/or tarring/sludge? I just lubed my latest castings with Alox and have yet to shoot them out of my Colt & Remington. A lot of on-line forums are saying Liquid Alox is a "no-no" for black powder. I'm assuming it is due to the fact there may be petroleum based products within. What is your take on it?
i did test for my onw use over a few yrs and found the alox was a good bullet lube for my modern and my percussion rounds..they coat is so thin no tar forms of if it does is so slight the next round removes it..i coat mine to good effect
Thanks again Blackie! Your input helps greatly!
Smokless powder guns ARE more powerful, however, percussion black powder revolvers are perfectly powerful enough for their intended purposes.
i fully agree
Blackie,
What black powder revolver would you recommend for a new black powder shooter to see if they like it or not? If you don't have a video covering this topic already, would you consider making one in the future?
You should check out duelist1954 he has an excellent video on that subject :)
Duelist1954 oes have a good channel and would encourage anyone interested in percussion revolver to check him out..as to what i would suggest....the remington `pattern..its feel is closer to our modern revolvers..and so is often a easy transition
Wow, you are patient...Have a beer, guy.....On me, if you can find me.....Lol.
Off the subject but what is the difference between the 1860 & 1861 colt navy’s?
You're still talking about delivering approximately 180 ftlbs. of energy coming from that pistol. It only takes 4 ftlbs. To kill a rabbit. That pistol is far more capable than some may think. You're talking mid size game with ease.
true it is ..and often when i am hunting and others see how effective it is they are shocked
What are your thoughts on the Pyrodex Powder Pellets? Thanks.
in a in line rifle they are great..but it a given load..and if like civil war renenactors use them to be blanks..i find the work up to the load give better accuracy
The key words here are "grains - volume equivalent"!
I have I had a look around and to be honest I am put off by the Italian guns. They all seem fragile and need fettling which is something I don't want to do too much as I am not good with my hands.
very true in the past..but to be honest..they have really surprised me in the last few yrs
I am just scouting around for something a bit different to add on to my UK Firearms Certificate. We don't have the options available to the average American. Black powder revolvers represent good value and look to me to be a good way to learn about BP. Thanks for replying.
Was sufficient for a 175 pound man..........
Have you shot the Johnston & Dow .44 that Mark Hubbs had a mold made up for??
not yet but it is coming soon
I can send you some if you're interested??
thanks i have the mold and plan on casting very soon..
BLACKIE THOMAS Oh okay, you're welcome. No problem.
I am interested in what load gives the best pattern.
exactly..will a proper load work up..you will find that load it likes..every gun is unique..and once you find it that the load for the gun..if it is reliable and accurate..dont keep adding powder trying to make a bigger gun..often all it will do is boom louder and very little else
Hi Blackie,
I have a couple specific questions on open top revolvers. Kind of a specific question that might take up some space. Do you have an email I can send to? Or just ask it here?
blackie thomas on fb
BLACKIE THOMAS Thanks for the reply but....I tend to avoid FB as I feel it’s more for the SJW’s or younger people.
So,,, here goes,,,, I’m looking at buying one of the new cartridge versions of the open top Navy’s, and shooting cowboy type smokeless powder loads. And research has shown there are many many smokeless powders available that have pressure curves well Below that of BP. But as the Italian remakes are usually using soft Steele, how much stretch might be expected over time, and can the gap between the cylinder and the forcing cone be adjusted with custom wedges etc. later on?
Thanks in advance.
asi understand the modern drop in ctg conversion cly.will handle off the shelf cowboy loads safely..since the cyl will hold the brunt of the pressure..as to wedges yes as they wear a new wedge can be easy fitted
Is it me or do I hear a cat meowing in the background??
haha..that is the neighborhood cat..he often will sneak into my videos
Ah I see.
agree.
Can you shoot snake or rat shot what ever its called out of a rifle ?
yes in some case you can buy modern ammo for that...22-/36 sp/..357../44 mag/ all can be found in rifles as well as handguns..to shoot out of say a 30-30 will require a bit more work
@@blackoracle69 thank you alot Blackie
Why do you use that chlorate corrosive stuff any way? Bad advise to sat the least.and a big thumbs down.
lol ahh a purest!!i shoot black as well..but mostly in my flintlocks
Pyrodex isn't any more corrosive than real bp. I use both. Pyrodex is the same power as Swiss which is more powerful than Goex.