the only woodworking tool needed?
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- čas přidán 18. 03. 2023
- Machines are getting better and cheaper. But how good are they for the hobby craftsman?
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Thanks for your well-crafted video, sincerely. And thank you for your suggestions on our products, thank you very much, this is the most important thing for us, and I also hope that other friends who have used it can provide valuable suggestions, I hope we can become better together, We will summarize these suggestions to the relevant departments, and strive to make the best machine for our customer, respect~😺
thanks for letting everyone know your are eager to make every product better.
@@TheSwedishMaker It is our aim to manufacture products that satisfy customers
And Thanks again for your practical suggestion, respect~
Hi! On mine on the x axis 4 out of 6 of the wheel's bearings where stuck and I found out when routing a circle it was ending up lopsided so I had to basically dismantle the whole thing. Its a good machine the problem is TT your quality control seems to be lacking.
@@xample222 Hi there! We're sorry you experienced issues with the bearings on your machine. We take our products' quality very seriously and strive to improve quality control processes. We appreciate your feedback, and we'll make sure to address this issue in the future. If you have any more concerns or questions, please don't hesitate to let us know. Thank you for choosing TwoTrees! 😊🌳
@@Twotrees3Dofficial Please offer a 65mm adapter for the customers that want to use a trim router.
Very well done and thorough video. What it convinced me though is this is a terrible machine for anyone but a very experienced CNC machine operator. Poorly made, inaccurate programming, and difficult to upload or adjust projects. Thank you for an accurate and honest review.
It is pretty bad really. Loose screws, lying about software compatibility, a bit of a con about the motors used, dodgy menu & Z probe not working properly!!!! What baffles me is what are these companies thinking sending crappy machines of all descriptions around the world for review!!!!
You’ve smashed it again Pierre. Totally honest review ✅
Fantastic video quality ✅
Superb editing ✅
And great fun to watch ✅
Your the man !
Any plans to upload the STL for the Makita adapter?
I admire your patience with this kind of machine ...
Loved your clear analysis. Thanks…
2:40 - i believe it's not 460cm x 460 cm , but rather 460 mm x 460 mm. 4,6m x 4,6m at that price range would be a rather great deal.
Yeah I was wondering about that as he said it had a small table!? I’m like damn, how big is a big table then!?
In easel you need to go to machine settings to tell it that you have a spindle. Once you do that it inserts the spindle start command and it should auto start. I haven't worked out how to auto insert a delay to enable the spindle to come up to speed in easel though.
I especially enjoyed all the kraftutryck that was needed to assemble it
That was refreshing. An honest review.
Your honest and unbiased appraisal of this machine has convinced me never to buy it, loved your video
Thankfully i had mone of these issues with mine, well except for the zprobe. Took about 4 hours to assemble but its been doing just fine since i got it. It works with easel too! Great machine for the money in my opinion 👍
One thing I do with any CNC machine is to put it inside a cardboard box. The top is open of course so you can watch what's going on. But it keeps the little fine chips from flying everywhere.
It was 3% not $3 dollars so at $600 it would actually mean you save $18👍
Ditto
@@jamesmatheson5115 so you wouldn’t appreciate being able save $18?
@@lucashunnisett3066 I think ditto meant I was in agreeance would you.
@@jamesmatheson5115 is that the correct use of that word though?
@@lucashunnisett3066 It is if Im in 100% agreement to what you said, its like a repeat, isnt it, otherwise I'ld have to rewrite what you wrote.
I’m sure as hell never going consider it. Thank you for an honest presentation.👍👍
Nice to learn the state of quality you get at the moment for this amount. Food for thought like me being a newby on that topic.
There's lots of new stuff for a beginner anyways, and if you get stuck with researching issues its a double disaster.
But thanks to videos like this, I'll think about it twice. I have stronger spindles for a start...
I'd really like to make an additional IKEA joke here, but I must invent a good one first :)
Excellent review. Cheap costs more as we know, good piece of kit for those who have all the time in the world to spend countless days fine tuning this half baked stuff. For the rest of us? Not a single chance!
I started to buy a low end. I ended up ordering a one infinity. The part that's sad is the 5 month delivery wait. Thanks for the video. From here it looks pretty good : )
Thank you
Spend the extra and get the longmill. I have one, and it's great 😊
If you buy this cnc also make sure all bearing wheels are rolling freely, on mine on the x axis 4 out of 6 of the well's bearings where stuck and I found out when routing a circle it was ending up lopsided so I had to basically dismantle the whole thing. Its a good machine the problem is TT quality control.
I bought this one. I was fully conscious of the limitations btw.
Now, despite being a small and underpowered machine, it does fill a niche in my workshop.
First of all, I used it to make the parts of my larger, completely from-scratch, CNC that I could not make by hand to any reasonable accuracy. For that, it was fine and invaluable.
Second, I use it to make small parts and things that don't require a lot of setup. In essence, stuff that would be too cumbersome to make on the large machine (especially given that the large one is not designed for all-purpose work, but rather requires making fixture plates with exact alignment on the machine bed before starting to make parts, as I do not ever want my cutter to touch the machine bed and the alignment system I worked so hard to create and mess it up). And for that, it does its job very well.
From your review and in depth testing the CNC is very much in a different league than what the manufacturer claims. And knowing what you discovered I would be very hesitant to chose this one I think. Amazingly good work on the review - ten thumbs up! 👍🏻👏🏻
great review, subbed
Fellow woodworking Swede here!
Fun to see CNC's getting down in pricing, soon enough there'll be a one that gets most things 'right' out of the box hopefully..
Also... What kind of planer & thicknesser combo are you using? Been looking for a decent budget alternative for my garage shop for some time now...
What's your opinion on the cnc?
It's always intressting to see what is available in the market. I got my first cnc in may 2021 and really enjoy using it. During alot of years thinking of building one from scratch myself I ended up buying one that came in 4 pices plus controller and some cabels,, 16-20 screws and ~1 hours assably later and it was ready to run. But then I needed to build the table to attach it to before I got the machine. Given the larger work area of ~800x800mm it feels like it will be able to create most of my upcomming projects. Really fun to see all your projects.
My big 60120 AVID cnc took me four full days to assemble... I was so physically exhausted after I had to sleep for like two days before I got to use the machine.... My second smaller 2448 machine took a month to build but I built that one from scratch...
I just got one for new year. With the 500w spindle upgrade.
It seems that they have updated the software version by now.
I m a neewbie at cnc so i cannot compare. But i checked all nuts and bolts during assembly and after some struggle to learn the software and the machine i think for this price you get a lot of fun. Its not a pro machine build for spitting out batch work. I intent to use it to cerate templates for the more complex parts of furniture i want to rout.
I
Really digging this channel!
thanks!
You Rock!
You can move the router when it's powered off. +/- 0.5mm at least. That's only going to produce scraps. I can't deflect mine more than +/- 0.002mm. Build one from scratch and you can easily expect < 0.02mm final accuracy. CarveCo is worth the money: the layout tools are good and it includes newer ArtCAM (with it you can engrave images with depth replacing shading). I built a wood CNC using a QueenBee frame (linear rails, tensioned ACME screws), a Duet3D WiFi controller configured for CNC, and the Makita trim router. It'll do anything, very very well. If all you're doing is cutting out plywood geese, painting them cornflower blue, and selling them for $2, then stick with that CNC.
Love your videos as always! This is on sale for 365$ today, so I just ordered one :D
thanks! Oh nice!
Where might I find that small electric screwdriver you used? Do you recommend it for small projects? I wonder how much power it has for bigger tasks. ???
Finally.. a honest review of the TTC 450. Can you please elaborate on what screws were loose initially? Also.. do you have any play in the Z axis? On mine if I grab one of the legs and shake back and forth, there's a bit of play. I didn't start it yet as I am waiting for the 500w upgraded spindle that they forgot to send initially, but that play seems a bit too much. Thank you!
Oh dear.... they used springs in the leadscrew nuts. Well, there goes any hope for positional accuracy.
You have to put the probe offset in candle
Which part of the machine have the loose screws?
I hope they can improve their quality.
hi, I have the same CNC and after updating the firmware the z-probe is very slow and the spindle doesn't descend onto the piece like what happened to you. How did you solve it? Thank you
I watched some othe similar videos but they review very specialized tools or useless tools. I like your videos better, thanks !!
Love the review..
For me as soon as I saw that spindle I was disappointed, just drop that straight away and give the buyers different aluminum holders for better options.
I have never managed to get Easel to work with any of my CNC machines so I am used to the SD card and candle but it's not really the best salutation at all.
I would probably buy one knowing I had some work to do but then again I like modding these things.
Take $100 of for a router and holder upgrade and it would be a good starting point
Hey,
the problem with the Probe in Candle is easy to solve. Just replace the standard Commands to these:
G21G91G38.2Z-50F80; G0Z1; G38.2Z-2F30; G92Z19.5; G0Z5F10M30;
And boom shakalaka it works great!
You get what you paid for! High quality premium products have always been available if you can afford to lay for it. Just like not all watches made in Switzerland are top notch.
For the price this looks interesting but I would probably still build my own. For someone who can't do that this makes sense for hobby work maybe.
I don't think that machine quite makes it to the "sanitary minimum" and I never want to invest in anything below or even at it. Thank you for the honest in-depth review!
hi The Swedish Maker can you show me the link for the makita 3D part for TTc 450 cnc how can I download
Greetings from Norway
Hello Swedish Maker! Firstly. amazing you can pump out so many high quality videos in the middle of moving house! And the CNC looks super too! Take care mate 💪
Thanks man! Steve is also here interupting my work 😃
@@TheSwedishMaker Say hi to Steve
Hi Pierre, in my opinion it is not worth the money for a machine that does not seem sturdy enough, so I will still with the one that I made some years ago, Its only 1200 x 2000 lol, and only cost me £150 to make yes that's right £150, as a retired toolmaker you can guess I made most of the items my self, but thank you the video
I enjoyed your narrated view………..however this wouldn’t get me to run out and buy one!!!
"I'm waiting for mine to be delivered, and I also plan to change the spindle. Would you be willing to share the support plan for the spindle you made?"
shoot me an e-mail and I´ll have it sent out. info@theswedishmaker.com
Thanks for taking the time and having the patience to do a thorough review of this CNC, guess I will be sticking with my 3018 Pro for the time being.
Good choice!
And if you like to upgrade like this guy here you will be at nearly at the same price but with a much sturdy machine if workspace of the 3018 is enough. czcams.com/video/w26DHMccicE/video.htmlsi=fimD0cPSf8o17hR-
Good job on the review, filming and editing. Thumbs up and subscribed.
Thanks and welcome
great video.. Thanks.. It reminds me very much of the 3D printer market.. For example the Ender 5 Pro I had thrust upon me by my brother who wanted prototypes made for his inventions and didn't want to learn how to use it himself. OMG it is not an exact science at all.. so many things can ruin your prints/plans. I tried many things before getting acceptable prints but this type of thing is not a 'buy and use' item at all.. like this CNC machine you demo here.
Hi, interesting…….. first time viewer and have done the things you need.
Now, would you recommend this unit to a brand new user? I could take the risk on a £150 unit and just bin it if I didn’t get into it but I am hitting some buffers at £599. Thoughts if you could please
Bob
England
I didn't know Rhett had another channel. Where's Link?
Pierre by now you must have a pile of these cnc's and lasers stacked in a dark corner of your shop. Great review, No BS, honest and to the point.👍
thanks man! I could have a cnc graveyard in my garden 😃
Thanks for the look at this small CNC, It is a pass for me.
Thanks for doing this. I've been thinking about a desktop CNC. I haven't found one yet that seems worth the price. I guess I'll keep looking.
it's really hard to find one at the price point that works really well. Unfortunately. At least the Sainsmart machines work with Easel.
The best hobby CNC machine, is the one made from your ideas and built with your own hands.
You could have a lot of fun building your own, and I bet it would turn out amazing.
🙌🏻😉
Few people possess all of the requisite skills to completely execute a CNC build. People good with electronics tend to have weak mechanical skills and vice versa. Of course there are some individuals that are strong across the board. But they're fairly rare in my experience. It's like there's mental blocks going on or something.
Thank you for your honest detailed review. In answer to your question, I'd say: No, I won't buy this machine at all, even if it is offered at half price.
thats intresting to see for that quality its just to expensive if you look at something like a volksfräse that cost roughly 1k you can see how much money you should spent
Discounted from $999, ever noticed how everything online is apparently discounted lately.
I believe for the price of $599, with its limitations, is NOT worth the price and the headaches that would come with it. Maybe half that cost… possibly even $400… but, I’d much rather invest a little more money and get something worthwhile, from the beginning.
My first CNC Machine was the
Longer MK2 by Sienci Labs. I purchased the 30x30
(roughly 34” x 32” cutting area)
*I know, it’s a bit confusing to call it a 30x30* lol
With the machine, Makita Router, dust boot, (2) Packs of (4) Router Bits, both 1/8 and 1/4 shanks. Along with an 1/8” collet adapter, and the Z Probe..
initially bought the first version of the Probe but later on decided to switch and buy the upgraded one that is much much nicer and you can set your X, Y, and Z from the one probe, as well as being compatible with a multitude of V bits (I believe up to 3/4”, but I may be wrong, as I never used a VBit that large on it)
When all said and done, with all machine components & shipping/tax, I believe it was somewhere near $1700/$1800… but, that price is only reflected based on my experience when I began using a CNC, because had I known better, I could’ve cut down a few hundred dollars, at least, but I felt for what I was getting, and the reviews it had, and the positive reviews I saw regarding the customer support, as well as its ease of use and functionality (as well as assembly) I was pretty sure that I was getting a very solid Cnc Router that would certainly do what I needed it to do .
**I understand $599 vs $1700/$1800 isn’t in the same discussion, but, my main point is that you’re better off spending the extra bit of money up front and sparing yourself many headaches you’d have from buying a much cheaper/much smaller/& less user friendly machine…
If you can afford $600 for a CnC, I’d just recommend saving up more money & holding out for something that you will (most likely) have better experiences with. (Although, I have had my fair share of headaches with my CNC- but that’s to be expected and is part of the learning curve lol)
Good luck to any new CNC’ers out there! 👍🏼👍🏼
Oh wow, a brutal and honest review. So by the time you upgrade the spindle, replace the stepper motors and by the looks of it the controller your left with just purchasing a frame. 🤦🏻
Loving the quality of these videos and the way you produce them. 👊🏻👍🏻
The frame, rails, & screws are the least capable bit of it. Controller is esp32 with grbl firmware which is perfectly capable up to 24v/2amp peek motors with proper driver chips & universal gcode sender rather than the buggy candle joke. Even the little 775 motor is 5x more capable than the flimsy frame of these toy routers, the only reason people make any gains at all going to larger motors is the increased mass adding some resistance to chatter. attach a 5lb weight on the Z and it will probably do about as well that 775 motor as it would with a mikita on it.
thank you! 👊
A frame, linear guides and linear actuators. Which is about half of a complete CNC system. Then you need electronics (drives and an interface), the axis motors and the spindle. Finally you need a machine controller too. Once you've upgraded the electronics you probably can't use the machine controller supplied. Because you've scrapped their electronics which likely contained the controller as firmware.
@@celimake you don't think those drives can really run 24V at 2A, do you? Because they cannot. Max TC on SMD drives is around 2.4W. 24x2=48 which is a far cry from 2.4. The term orders of magnitude comes to mind. Methinks you've no idea how stepper drives actually work. They are very much current limiting devices.
Given the work envelope size, the underpowered stepper motors and spindle make it more of a "kit that arrives partially assembled but missing pieces" rather than a decent machine.
for someone starting out with no experience or knowledge this sounds like a waste of money and time thank you for the review and maybe this video will be an incentive for the company to step up their game
What was written on that map highlighting countries that use the imperial system? It was cut off and I really wanted to read it. 😂
Hi 👋 Swedish Maker , I am new to your work shop, great territorial I won’t be buying one of these soon, I am thinking I’ll find something at some point, I think my budget left to go up quite a bit as I would like to get something already assembled or virtually as,
I used to have my own specialist joinery shop , but I am now retired living in France, but do you fancy making some bits and pieces and having a go on CNC scary don’t know anything about them never use one but I have seen the working, not sure whether what is left of my brain will be able to cope. 😂 Look forward to next territorial.. PHIL FROM THE DARK SIDE OF THE MOULIN FRANCE
Who would buy from a company who considers the dimensions of the backplate were a company secret. It just puts you to the trouble of some disassembly to measure it.
The coupon you showed is 3% ($17) off not $3 so it would be $582
2:14 The coupon code is for 3 percent off, not 3 dollars, so that would make it about $581, or $18 off.
good call! I only realised after editing the video.
Your coupon code doesn’t work
Nice video! As far as your spindle floating in mid air, did you account for the thickness of the z probe? I'm not an expert, but I think you have to measure the thickness of the z probe and enter it in to the G-code. I haven't actually done it yet on my cnc.. 😮
I did account for it in the g-code - but something was probably off with the g-code anyways. Im not sure if they have some internal thing set up for their z-probe that wouldnt make it work if it was pre-loaded in the g-code for the project.
@@TheSwedishMaker my apologies then. I didn't see where you mentioned it in the video and it was the only thing I could think of. I liked your talk about easel. I've been struggling with Carveco maker and I think I'm going to try easel. Thanks!
@@ericeinsmann5559 no you were right. I didnt mention it in the video :)
You should be able to compensate for offset with your machine controller. But that's where all of these cheap CNC machines fall short. The controller they use tends to be rudimentary and lacking. The machine controller is the software that interprets G code and has a control interface front end for the operator. The actual CNC program. Such as Mach, GRBL or LinuxCNC. Those are all machine controllers.
I've gone through a few iterations of cheap CNCs. Meh... I'm done. I'll wait until I can afford an X-Carve.
Quick observation. It says 3%, meaning it would be $18 off.
You showed 460cm that would be 4.6M, unless your a giant, that don't look right. Maybe its 460MM? I could be wrong though?
Började precis följa! Hälsningar från en annan trä-snickar-projekt-människa från Finland.
tack! 😃
Well, the two cents of an old CNC router builder. 1. Never use 3D printed parts for any structural application on a CNC. 2. When you "upgrade" a spindle on a light machine you make things worst, because the structure won't deal with the new torque and the bigger tools it can carry. So you won't be able to get the full monthy anyways.
So…I don’t see that anyone picked up in this. You state at 2:44 that the working space is 460 cm X 460 cm. That’s 181.1 X 181.1 inches. That more than 15 feet times 15 feet. Did you mean 46.3 inches? Or maybe 46 centimeters so 18 X 18 inches
that's true. It was supposed to be mm instead of cm.
I think you mean 460 x 460 mm not cm
Same price as the new genmitsu 4040 pro. 1:31 in and I already know which I'd buy.
You want "Universal gcode sender" Edit the grbl settings and that machine will likely travel at 2000mm/m or better, cutting speeds will be much lower because of machine flex, nothing about its capability to move. It is just a 3018 with longer travels, don't expect anything more out of it without a lot of modification.
"It's a company secret" is code for "We stole it from someone else" when it comes to Chinese equipment. Wouldn't be surprised if the firmware it's built on stolen/mislicensed code as well.
that was never 999 those websites always have fake sales
Dimensions of the spindel mounting plate a Company Secret? Man what company is this?
Thanks for the in depth review. Buying this kit will save you time to source and manufacture the parts needed to build this machine. So as a starter kit to implement upgrades it could be just okay ish.
For learning CNC / Gcode this might be a interesting build. But lying the machine supports Easel is a BIG no no.
I'd save more money and buy a ready to carve machine with decent spindel.
The plate cannot be a secret to anyone with access to the plate and a ruler. Maybe in the future they can encapsulate the plate in epoxy resin to protect their proprietary IP? Or perhaps what they meant is they don't know?
Thanks for review but I rather build my own
do you know if it is compatible with MasterCAM?
dont know actually
When a content creator gives you a coupon code, it means that content creator is being compensated. That means they are shilling.
You mean marketing. It's been an integral part of doing business since the days of Sumer. Most people would be unemployed without it, especially today. This creator wasn't exactly praising this product, either. That probably means you're getting an honest opinion...
It looks fairly compact for 460 cm x 460 cm work space. I knew Chinese can do anything if they put their mind to it but that’s whole new level. 😊
It is much smaller - 460 / 450 mm x 460/450 mm. This is a very marketing driven way of miniaturizing things, just scale the dimensions down in a data sheet, but not in the real world... :)😎
yes I apparently wrote the wrong numbers in when editing the video. It should be 460mmx460mm and not cm which would make it huge 😃
It is the Tardis of CNC machines. It's bigger on the inside.
It is not 460 cm x 460 cm, as written in the overlay in the video, but only 460 x 460 mm² , or even 450 by 450 mm², as shown later - wich is waywise a factor of 10 lower, areawise 100 times less. As a swedish person, as your channel name implies, i.e. living in or coming from a metric world, you should have been able to spot that... Just stumbling over that. Otherwise a good and eye-opening review. Regards from just once cross the western part of the Baltic Ocean (tm, :), still assuming you are in Sverige ) ! U.
Yes - in Sweden alright. Just a big miss from my end. :) thanks for watching
Great review, but WHY, WHY, WHY do all youtubers think it necessary to add music?? Just listen to it around 4:15 - how is that noise contributing anything of value to your otherwise good production?
I wonder how we built things for a couple thousand years without CNC...CNC is a great tool for machining parts that go into machines...As a carpenter, I dislike them...I can do stuff way faster with my routers, table saw, mitre saw; etc...
If you don't like it ,can I have it?😂😂
460 cm? That's over 15 feet! ...There is no way the machine is that big.
Id rather pay a bit more and not have all thoes problems enoying the heck out of me!
I don't feel it worth $500+, if you ask me.
In your opinion, what's the entry price point or machine recommendation for a cnc of this size.
@@jesserhodes7430 It's not about the size. With this price tag I would expect some... pretension for cutting aluminium.
I believe that if you upgrade 3018 keeping it within the price of this machine, semi decent job with aluminium can be done. In this machine I do not see this potential. Maybe I am wrong.
Size-wise - same 3018 can be expanded to the size similar (bit smaller, but still) to this machine and show not much worse results, if worse at all. But the price would be half of this one.
So I am not saying it is bad. I am saying that it doesn't match any niche. At least in my point.
I am considering buying the CNC of this size, but 4.5 times more expensive. So it not about the size...
@Artem I appreciate your explanation. I frame houses and do trim carpentry, but I've been interested in understanding this type of woodworking to do as a hobby. It's another world compared to what I know.
@@jesserhodes7430 and this world is very interesting!
Dont get disencouraged with what i wrote. If you know for sure that wood is the hardest thing that will be in your cnc (i also thought so and was wrong), and the size for you is a key factor, than i caanot recall anything of this size for this price.
@@jesserhodes7430 around 2-3k. Sorotec is good for example.
A quick correction for you.The work area is 460mm x 460 mm, not cm. 460 cm is 181.1 inches or just over 15 feet.
very true! Sorry If it was misleading.
@@TheSwedishMaker No problem. Figured it was just a "typo" error & didn't want your other followers to make a bad decision on whether to purchase.
say you can get it for 150$ and then says it cost 600$. so where do you get it for only 150$? why would you say that?
Just reading the comments. Lol if it was a excellent machine that sold for $999. Ppl would complain about paying that much for the size. You can not please ppl 😂.