Replace Caged Bearings With Loose Bearings In Bottom Bracket Overhaul
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- čas přidán 23. 06. 2014
- I show how to overhaul a bike bottom bracket, and replace the retainer cage bearings with loose bearings. The advantage of loose bearings is there are more bearings to take the load and not being in a cage, they can move more freely. The disadvantage is that they take more time/work to install. I disassemble, clean, lube and reassemble the bottom bracket with loose bearings. I also show removing and installing the cranks.
Some tools used in this video:
Park Tool Compact Crank Puller:
www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASI...
Park Tool HCW-5 Lock Ring Spanner:
www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASI...
Park Tool HCW-4 Box End and Pin Spanner Crank Wrench (36mm)
www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASI...
Dualco Grease Gun with Short Nozzle:
www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASI...
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Nice video. The first thing I always did 40 years ago was throw away bearing cages and do what you did here. Those bikes, Kleins, Specialized and others are still working perfectly as long as I change the ball bearings which is a very simple job and as you know you dont have to remove anything more than the cranks and spindle and of course the old bearings. Sealed bearings are not designed to keep dirt and grime out which they dont, they are designed for the consumer to have to purchase them because servicing a sealed is possible with some models but the system is not as good as the one you are dealing with here. Have a nice day.
I am a DIY bike mechanic as well, but still for some reason I love to watch your explanatory videos. I guess I just enjoy watching a pro at work =) Thanx for your effort
Your the only one who showed the whole removal, which is what I needed to know. THANK YOU!
Thank you for this!! Just saved me having to buy a replacement right away, haha. If you remember me, I'm the one with the stuck crank arm and I recently decided to ride with the bolt out and like you said, before I got 30 miles it fell right off with no warning!! Sad that I was 2.4 miles from home, LONG WALK!! So then I set about rebuilding bottom bracket and realize the caged bearings were shot, found this video, borrowed same size bearings from an unused rear wheel and now I'm fixing to test ride it. THANKS!!
Replacing the caged ball bearings by n+2 lose bearings seed very brilliant.
Man oh man... what a great and thorough video. This is exactly what I needed. You are a real teacher my friend.
I don't know why but,I find your videos very addictive and entertaining
santos bonacci understand everything
I'm from Hong Kong. Not many local CZcamsrs make good bike videos here. I always watch RJ and Park Tool. I like RJ's videos so much. 😀
@@bikeguyhk how do u even have access to YT from china lol
Thanks for the video, I was able to rehaul my BB with loose bearings and I couldn't be happier. I sourced brand new bearings from my local ACE hardware and It took about an hour to get done. I own an old Schwinn that I've had for a little over 6 months and when I took the BB out it was completely dry. It's pretty easy to do once you get the hang of it. I know you've been at it for quite a while and I hope your channel grows.
This is one of the best fitting guides I've seen. I'll make a start on my bike this weekend. Thank you.
Thank you for this video, RJ. Last night I replaced the caged bearings in my Dura Ace BB-7400 bottom bracket with loose bearings. Because of your video I knew exactly what to do. Despite some wear in the races, the spindle now turns very smoothly.
how many loose bearings do you use?
I do almost all the work on my cars myself and I have a lot of tools. But bikes are so different and require a lot of special tools and two different bikes will have different systems usually. Thanks for the videos, it's helpful. None of this is hard it's just weird and there are a lot of special tools.
3 years later and now I'm doing exact same job, these videos so helpful, great bloak👍
RJ thanks for all of your videos! You have no idea how much you have helped with my bikes!
Exactly what I was looking for. Was wondering if I could replace caged bearings with loose bearings. Thank you.
I love your videos, you describe everything and make it look soo easy.
I just did this today, thanks for the video. I didn't know how many bearings to use to replace the caged ones, this was very helpful.
Thanks rj for this video,it helped alot. My 1st bike repair/fix with a little help from hubby.... worked a treat & no more noise 🚲👍🏼😊
Thank you so much for these videos! ... I have to work on my own bike... Nobody here in the stix to help me... lol.... I couldn't have done it without your help! .. thanks again!
I just had the bike shop convert my non-sealed bb to the sealed. I almost wish I hadn’t. It will take fewer tools for me to work on the sealed bb. But, it looks very interesting to do this overhaul. Plus, the screws were stripped, so I needed help. When I do work, it usually takes hours since I don’t have all the tools. Thank you.
The Fuji America I bought new in 1977 has the exact same bottom bracket as this Raleigh. Your demonstration was perfect for what I needed to do. Thanks!
I have learned so much from you videos, RJ, they are the best out there, congrats and thanks!
Tremendous help there buddy thanks for doing these vlogs they are invaluable
explained very nicely. thanks for showing all bearing parts at pedal side..and how to fix them.
Nice video straight to the point 👌
Not unnecessary talking or other time assuming things on video
Aha, I've always suspected that loose ball bearings were better than caged ones, and now I know why- because there are more bearings doing the work, so they wear out less quickly. Also, they move more freely. Thanks for explaining.
Victor Bullshit and industrial motor uses caged bearings more friction created with loose bearings as they rub each other and pile forcing them sideways against the race.
@@deltabluesdavidraye And in the caged bearings they rub against the cage and are you sure that simple cage DOES prevent the bearings from forcing them sideways under heavy rotational loads ? I don't think so ...
You can get ball cages for 11 balls, exactly the maximum number you can fit in loose. I have 5 pairs. I have never noticed any detrimental effect from using cages.
great vid I have the same number of bearings in my cage and same size bag of new ones and just needed to know how many loose to put in. you saved the day. thanks
Thanks RJ for a good video. You cleared up the problem I had as to which way the fixed cup had to turn to loosen.
Great video! Thank you for taking your time to share!!!
master! this vid makes me want to try all kind of stuff with my bikes!
All good information RJ. Thanks for sharing it.
Detailed video. Did the upgrade on my bike. Worked, thanks
Thanks for this walk through, very informative 🙂👍
GOD BLESS, happy ridings.
Wow that's Amazing! I'm gonna do this now with all my Park tools
Good job and made it look easy. All the bikes I end up with need an impact wrench to remove anything.
I understand it now, The crank puller works like a drillpress. cool little tool!
You're the man, RJ!
Especially like the trying of the crank wheel position to find the most round position. I replaced the cages with 11 loose bearings. Being an old French BB, I locktited the cups. Last time I didn't and they constantly where loosening. Unfortunately the non drive side has pitting on the axle race, and it will surely use the balls faster.
Learnt a lot from watching you, was reasonably competent before but thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge.
Exactly what I needed to know, thanks !!
Just redid my bottom bracket cup bearings and found 1 bearing ball that had a missing section so added a ball from a bearing I took apart with the same size ball. After redoing the BB I gained 5 km /hr speed on my 14 kg training road bike. The BB was previous also too tight . So now no more creacking and smooth pedal motion.
Nice video, helped me out a lot, thanks
Hi RJ...im new to your channel and subscribed right away,thank you for the great video's(information)👍
Great job, thanks for the instruction.
Thank you for the great video. I'm curious as to why all the bike videos seem to use adjustable wrenches? Most of us that use tools daily use Crescent's seldom. I will dig through piles of chaos in my shop looking for the correct socket, box-end or open-end wrench before I resort to an adjustable wrench. Yes, I know I should clean up and organize more often. Also consider scratch marking the drive end of the spindle with the crank arm before pulling the Drive Sprocket off. This guarantees the Sprocket goes back on the same way it came off. As for your desire for a Ratchet version of your Fix Nut wrench, you can fabricate one using a large socket. Using a second (sacrificial) FixNut Wrench cut off the handle with an angle grinder or a hack saw and weld it to the face of the socket. Note, you'll only be able to use it after loosening the FixNut with an unmodified FixNut wrench. This is because the mating surfaces of the wrench and the
FixNut are quite small. Offset Levering that ratchet wrenches produce does not work well on thin nut surfaces.
Wakodahatchee Chris
great video. im going from caged to loose bearings next time i service my bottom bracket and wanted to know how many i needed vs how many in the cage. THANKS!
this vid was rather helpful, u see i got my hands on a free spirit old school bike from a relative and im trying to repair and restore it to soon ride it
It looks like one of the best inventions is an adjustable wrench, you seem to use them quite a bit, nice video
They're arguably a good choice for emergency or road use but not daily use in the shop.
Good video, applies to the vintage Sugino BB on my 1982 Windsor. Be sure to get higher grade (smoother) replacement ball bearings when you do the upgrade (it is possible to get accidentally get 1/4" bearings that are relatively rough, that are not so great for bike service).
That's pretty much how I do it, except I did learn to test for the best fit on the square taper, and I like to use Permatex anti-seize lube on the threads and square taper. I use "green grease" on the ball bearings.
BTW, I prefer these older style steel bottom bracket bearings to the newer, more complicated, more expensive and lower quality "alloy" products prevalent today. When something works well leave it alone!
I knew I got a deep rooted mistrust of cages from somewhere. A friend reminded me of this mishap and I thought it relevant, 18 years ago during my bmx days I was using a Nankai freecoaster hub. Me and a bunch of friends were riding home from a skatepark when we took a short cut along a single-track dirt road. I noticed my bike sounded like a bucket of bolts in a tumble dryer so I investigated. My rear wheel had almost an inch of loose play at the rim and some jagged shards of metal were poking out the bearing shields. I rode the remaining seven miles home like that plus it slipping a lot and then got the hub apart. The bearing cages had disintegrated, slashing the rubber shields to ribbons and filling the hub with razor sharp swarf like metal and full and split ball bearings. I got a new set of bearing cages and dust shields although today I'd do what I do to every hub with the devil's timebomb and bin the cages and convert to a full compliment of loose balls. The clock may be ticking on your cages, bin em and do what RJ advises and I learned through bitter experience! Thanks to Josh for reminding me of that day.
Caged bearings are easier/faster/cheaper to install for a manufacturer, but to as good as loose bearings.
Very nice sir, good information I'm really enjoyed your bicycle repair restore video
Useful advice. The Velosteel coaster brake I'm working on has mullered it's bearings. The driver bearings look like they have been hit by a hammer with big flat spots. I read this is common on these hubs, maybe bad quality bearings or not enough bearings from being the caged type or this hub has had a hard, hard life so I'm going to take your advice and go loose ball instead of caged. If you ride a Velosteel coaster brake hub, the standard bearings are garbage. Swap them for loose ball, coaster brakes have a hard life anyway so anything to make their life easier.
Amazing stuff, thanks for the guidance
Life saver dude, just replaced my gearset and the bearing rings were absolutely ruined
Thanks for your vid. I saved $ not having to buy caged bearings. More importantly I was back in business same afternoon.
Great!
Trix Kemuel, they are weight bearing hub bearings. They are under serious wear conditions. I doubt the grease is causing that much rolling resistance.
Thanks my problems are solved 👌🏽👍🏽
Gavin King vb
Excellent video again sir!.. I purchased caged bearings before,but after seeing this video then i think a tub of 1/4 inch loose bearings would have been cheaper and better?.None of my old bikes have had a plastic dust seal inside the bottom bracket!!!. Also i like your 30 year old "team USA" racing bike.
I converted both the Velosteel and a Sachs Torpedo coaster brake hubs to loose ball. Reassembly is a little trickier but I gain 4-5 extra balls per race. This should distribute the load better and give longer bearing life I hope. Both hubs had battered bearings. Sage advice from you.
That is why they use caged bearings. Faster and lowers manufacturing cost. Even though loose bearings are better.
Thank you RJ another great video!!!!
Btw….. when will you do a video about converting from loose bearings to sealed bearings?
Great work! It seems that getting the bearing tightness is trial-and-error process even for you. I often find that if I try to adjust the bearing just right before tensioning the locking nut, there's always some play in the threads and the setting changes when locking nut is tightened even if you hold the tensioning nut in exactly the same position. Just try to get it close and error to the too loose bearing side if you're not sure and tighten the bearing e.g. 1/8 turn at a time if it's too loose after tightnening the locking nut.
Tightening the lock nut presses it against the frame and pulls the adjustable cup outward, so it loosens the bearings ever-so-slightly.
great video. Very informative. Thanks.
Exactly what I need thank you so much
Love all your videos, thanks! Quick question: what if the rubber/plastic sleeve inside bracket hole has deteriorated? I tried pulling it out and it's splitting. Leave it alone or remove and just add more grease?
Keep using it or chuck it. It just keeps dirt out of the BB.
Thanks for that, has been a great help :)
Hi RJ - I followed your video to replace the cage bearings on my 8 year old schwinn road bike with lose bearings. I wasn't able to take the fixed cup off unfortunately but I was still able to put lube on the race and put 11 bearings on each cup. Everything went okay but after I put it back together, I hear a whirring sound (very light when I turned the crank spindle by itself, but a lot louder when I am riding. Is this normal? This wasn't happening with the cage bearings before. The bike does run a lot smoother though - the old bearings were okay but the cage had some rust on it so I decided to replace them. I used brand new 1/4" bearings and put 11 loose bearings to replace the cage with 9. Thanks!
Mine doesn't have a brace, the cages act as the brace. Can I use the loose bearings without the cage, will it fit?
thanks for this vid. Found a Trek 800 sport mtb. and one of the bb. is missing? lol looks like it's never been taken apart before so I guess it came from the factory that way years ago very little grease inside but the bike was hardly used tires are dry-rotted and has the original brake pads. I think it might be a woman's bike at the frame is straight and normal the size is 16.5 dark green I found the serial number still haven't been able to figure out what year it is. I'm going to follow you because I like the way you explain things. Tom NJ
Awesome video (and a week to late). Had I seen this video before I brought my bitten up MTB to a mechanic I would have fixed it myself...
Thank you, great video
I have taken to NOT REMOVING the right bottom bracket cup. They are too much trouble with no benefit. I clean out the inside of the cup with a rag from the left side, and reassemble the right side bearing with lots of grease while it is on the crank bolt. All of the work is done from the left side and is is MUCH easier...
Could you mark the crank before removing it with a grease pen to make reassembly easier?
Hi,
Thanks for the great videos, I like your channel.
I have a question for you, in 5:36 you used this specific tool, is there a way to open the fixed cup without using that tool?
+rnoor01 I always suggest using the proper tool. You might be able to use an adjustable wrench on a fixed cup like this. But the tool is not very expensive.
thank you, my friend.
Well I have to admit that I always put the grease over the ends of the axle. Especially when a new bike is assembled without any grease there and it squeaks like crazy when applying force to the pedals.
a excellent vid ! bravo !
excellent video!
Great video!
Hey RJ you should show us the same but to sealed bearings
Can you replace caged bearings with loose bearings in wheel hubs aswell? For example, if there are six 7/32" balls in a cage, how many lose balls do I replace that with? 8 balls or just try til I can't fit any more?
Good video well explained
Good video, Thanks
On my bike the non drive side is longer which allows me to adjust the bottom bracket after some time when movement appears, without taking the pedal out :).
RJ, your bottom bracket bearings without the cages - how long did it work? plan to do the same on my Hatta R9400 BB but let me hear from you first.
Israel Camus How long did it work? I sold the bike, but the bearings will last as long or longer than caged bearings as the stress is distributed over more bearings.
Thanks RJ, I bike to work, got an old style BB with ball bearings that are caged and now I'm tempted to set them free.
you mention towards the beginning of the video that you might replace the cranks or bottom bracket. How do you measure for what will fit if you want to upgrade?
In this video, I show how to measure to replace a bottom bracket: How To Upgrade Vintage Bike With Sealed Cartridge Bottom Bracket
That is for square taper types. Not sure about other newer types.
Thats the attractive Ofmega Aero crankset from 80's, with 144mm bcd, I guess you need to use with the original BB, but may also fit fine on a Campy bb axle as well? Now I see the bike has a real generic BB, how do the tapers of that Ofmega crank fit the axle?
They are the stock cranks. Seriously doubt they are Ofmega. thecabe.com/forum/threads/raleigh-team-usa-bike-rare.7851/
The ad just says "forged alloy crankset". It's not a high end bike.
Is it a really big problem if I don't have the plastic shield inside? I just took mine apart and for some reason that piece is missing. Love your videos, RJ!!
No. It just helps keep dirt out of bearings.
Hello RJ, it's nice to watch your video here in youtube. Your Channel always a good refference to re-assamble several of vintage Bottom bracket.
I would like to ask you about Bottom bracket Shimano BB SL31, since i have an Shimano Adamas Ax crank, arm, spindle, and steel ball and some people said it quite often that this kinda rare crankset. I purchsased it without any BB Cap, and here in Indonesia, i couldn't find any replacement part yet. So, i'm just wondering if you ever modified one of them and recommend me the swapable parts. Thnx
I don't know what you are looking for?
Maybe you've heard of this. I have an issue with the left pedal whose history i don't know; it was spinning roughly. I adjusted it with lock nut and keyed washer etc. It was perfect. But after a half hour ride i noticed it returned to its binded rough state. I changed to a different era style pedal but it too after the same period started to bind. Can you offer some advice. Thanks for your attention.
Overhaul it, replace the bearings, etc.
good idea
What brand are your hubs? I can see they spin nicely for a long time 😮
I don't remember what they were.
Hey! At 13:28, can you explain why you don't you want to have grease on the tapered part of the spindle? I thought it would make it easy to pull the crank set when disassembling at another time. I just changed a old cartridge bracket with loose bearing bracket, thanks for your help!
Because the cranks are pressed on, and held on by friction. Grease can actually let them slide on further and potentially split the crank arm. And also they may be more likely to come loose.
@@RJTheBikeGuy I see, thank you!! Guess have to head back to workshop to clean it up :)
Hi. Just to confirm, is the diameter of each bearing ball 8mm? Thanks and very helpful this video
You need to measure the ball bearings in your bottom bracket. But 1/4" is common.
Thanks!
Hello RJ,
on your video about converting the caged bearings of a headset to loose bearings, you mentioned we should leave two to three ball bearings of space. How come the same is not true with the bottom brackets or hubs?
Thanks
Because a headset doesn't work by going round and round. Just back and forth, and most of the time in the center. So the bearings usually stay right where they are. And also the direction of the force pounding up into the bearings. They tend to wear marks into the races in those spots. Leaving a couple bearings out, allow them to move around more and not stay in the same places.
Thank you very much! Your videos are the most helpful and most knowledgeable I have ever seen when it comes to bikes. Thank you for your time and education.
We didn't have caged balls when I first started messing about with bikes as a 10yr old boy in mid 60's England (did you have bicycles in the USA back then...?) and it didn't take long to fit the new balls because I counted them into the palm of one hand and poured them into the well greased cup then ran a finger round to push them into place, sticking a finger up the hole helped the little blighters go where I wanted them to, 15 seconds max? I'll go back to watching your vid now, maybe fast forward through the dainty tweezer bit.....
Thanks mate. A case of easy assembly vs ideal. Factory understandably chooses the former. Looks dry on the drive side.
It's saves them money. Better bikes cost more for these reasons.
I think it's OK to have a grease smear on the crank spindle because a bolt secures the crank for the press fit.
What kind of grease gun do you use? It looks very handy. Anyone in the comments have any recommendations?
www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0025UGOVW/ref=nosim/youtube25-20
Is that green grease an extreme pressure lubricant for ball bearing like that?
It's marine grease and yes it's made for bearings among other things.
How are you managing to hit proper torque using that ratchet? It takes about 30ft lbs of torque for a crank bolt, and a ratchet that short would need about 50 pounds of force on the end of it to reach that.
I never realized we need to test where to install crack on the axe fourth taper sections.