How to overhaul a bottom bracket (crank bearings) on a vintage bicycle
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- čas přidán 24. 01. 2022
- Sheldon Brown BB guide.
www.sheldonbrown.com/cribshee...
Just a note: Careful following this video in regards to what way I put in the bearing cage. These are shaped special for the cups. Some have the cage faced inward torwards the cup. Some facing out. See what way workes best before tightening the BB.
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Here is a very detailed video on how to overhaul your bottom bracket/crank bearings on a vintage bicycle. I'll show you the correct tools to use and give step by step instructions, so your overhaul or restoration is done right! I overhaul a Dura-ace 7400 bottom bracket but its no different than the one that is on your vintage bicycle. Please leave your comments and questions below.
#bicycleoverhaul #bicyclerestoration #roadbike
Thank you so much for the tool hack with the washers! I had an old Campagnolo bottom bracket on an old Crescent road bike that was really seized. That hack is truly an knuckle saver! Thank you John! 🙏
Hello John. First of all thank you very much for what you do here and sharing your passion for these beautiful machines.
I have a different way to fine tune the fit of the bottom bracket, something I actually learned 40 years ago from a magazine article in the UK and have used ever since: Fit the bottom bracket to the point of loose fit of the adjustable cup; by loose fit, get it as good as you can, including fitting the lock ring, but soft finger tightness on the lockring, just sufficient to take the play out of the threads. The play in the threads is significant in the adjustment of the bearing fit; Now fit the drive side crank; Holding the pedal end of the drive side crank, you can now move this laterally and feel any play in the bottom bracket. Using this method, of course what happens is that the movement at the end of the crank is a magnification of the play in the bottom bracket bearings; At this point, adjust as neccessary.
This method allows really fine adjustment of the bearing play, improving bearing lifetime, reducing friction, reducing the need for frequent maintenance - and is just cool to do!!
That is a incredibly accurate suggestion. I agree, that works really really well. People should take note
Great Show, you did beautiful work Sir, and oh how i loved working on those Dura-Ace bbrackets. i used to run a ball point pen around the bearing tracks, very easy to feel a pit on the axle or in the cups. i love plenty of grease on threads, because sometimes crank arms can be very very reluctant to break free.
Thanks!
This is exactly the information I need and it's presented so clearly. I'll be watching your others when I need to know more. Vintage road bikes rule but we need vintage streets to go with them, they sure are in horrible pot holed condition, back in the day side streets were perfect.
well done. clear, concise, and good camwork ---------especially the tighting slip, which happens to everyone!!
Warts and all! LOL Thanks for watching.
Really like the bolt and washer idea. Glad you didn't chip or scratch that frame when you slipped on the adjustment side.
Thanks. I worried about that. I inspected the frame before the next take. Thanks for watching
Thanks, I got pretty lucky!
I really enjoyed your approach to the BB how to. I’d love to see more.
Hi, thanks for watching. I have a lot of other videos however they are not" how to" videos. There are build videos but I don't go into great detail.
This is great information!! I love using my campy crank puller
1988.. vintage! Feeling old.
Excellent video!
Tell me about it! LOL
Your bikes are just gorgeous!!
Thanks!... By the way. You get the award for doing the most comments on one video! Thanks for watching.
Aweson video for beginers.👍👍
We love these videos!!!!!!
Thanks so much
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us.
Thanks for watching
Man thank you for the screwdriver trick. It worked! 🙏🙏🙏
Glad that worked out for you!
Excellent video !!
Thank you very much!
Very helpful thanks for the video
Glad it helped
Awesome channel!
Thanks
Thank you for this video ❤
THanks for watching.
Excellent idea with massive bolt and washer!!!!
I've been working on bicycles since I was 15! Would you believe I learned this trick only a year ago!.
@@JohnsVintageRoadBikeGarage yes me too I was like 13, back in 73, I became a bike freak. it is a great Idea , I will go to hardware store.i would read everything Sheldon brown would write.
Great video! I've got some of those Park pin tools, but found them to be rather flexible when applying modest torques... resulting in the pin popping out of the hole. I've been using the Park SPA-6 pin tool, which is quite rigid and more likely to stay where it belongs. It's a bit pricier, so perhaps it depends on how much you'll use it.
I hear you. I've had that spanner for many, many years. Definitely need to get a heavier one. As evidenced by me hitting the camera and watching it fly lol
John, you probably remember using a "plier type" bb lockring tool back when you worked in bike shops. They are quite expensive if you were to buy the proper tool; but you can make a very decent version for yourself from an inexpensive set of channel locks (after a little time with files or a die grinder). It will keep your knuckles safe and be easy on the camera. Also, that is a great trick for the fixed cup tool; but a vintage Cobra or other inexpensive fixed cup tool is not too hard to find and also a real pleasure to use.
Thanks. I do remember those!
I saw this video and it's a good reference for me because I'm trying to change out the bottom bracket and crank assembly for a new one. I have a Dunlop FS 747 mountain bike 21 speed. And it has this exact bottom bracket. Unfortunately mine is rusted on the part where the crank chain wheel is so I have PB blaster soaking on the threads as best as I can. Unfortunately I don't have one of those spanner tools that are 36 mm I believe that's all of them are the same size. So I tried a crescent wrench and then that didn't work I was going to try to get an open-end wrench but I don't want to damage it vise-grips don't work even a pipe wrench wouldn't work lol. So I'm going to have to bite the bullet and get this type of tool that especially keyed for this thing and then do exactly what you did with a bolt washer nut and another washer because I too don't want to break my knuckles and then take a hammer or a mallet and hopefully break it free . I tried yesterday and it didn't work and today I tried it still doesn't work. So like I said I have to bite the bullet and get the same exact tool it's just I don't see paying $25 for a tool when I'm only going to use it once because I have a sealed bearing bottom bracket that I'm putting in.
You can always go on bikeforums and fine guys in your area that have vintage tools etc. That might be worth a try or borrow from a LBS if you know them well enough. Thanks for watchin.
Thank you so much. I restored an old touring Schwinn and flipped the spindle 3 times because I couldn't decide which longer side seemed right. I was also paranoid about the cage bearing being backwards. Very helpful
I'm kind of the same way with the bearings. That's why I roll the spindle in the bearings before you put it on lol.
Usually there is text imprinted on the spindle...when you put the spindle in, you should be able to read it properly if the bottom bracket was see-through and you were seated on the bike.
Bottom bracket cup and cone adjustment can be tricky (visualize ball deformation and Brinell dents).When cleaning and regreasing bottom bracket I never remove fixed cup and grab ends of both cranks push and pull side to side(simultaneously) to check for any play. Campy's C - Record cranks require only a long handled allen wrench for removal & installation .To get proper tightness without a torque wrench (no lube on tapers) requires a mechanic's "feel". Campy has two wrenches with spanner for complete overhaul of C- Record headset and bottom bracket - 20$ each in 1985. I just replaced a1986 Campy spindle with pitted races even though it still felt smooth. What are your thoughts on ceramic bearings and grease types?
Avoid ceramic. Grease type is not really an issue. Numerous good product available. Everyone has their favorite, especially Oprah.
Hi! Was there a difference between the C-Record Italian 70-SS and the 70-SP axle length? My C-record bike had the inner 42t ring over the years getting too close to the chainstay.
Took it to my LBS and had the head mechanic (definitely knew how to service a vintage Colnago with vintage components) and he overhauled the BB.
I had a spare 70-SP axle and paired side by side together it was a few mm bigger than the 70-SS. He installed it. FINALLY, more clearance for the 42t chainring. Maybe the balls were different? Oh well.
He didn't have that 7mm hex wrench for the crank extractor bolt so I gave him mine since I had a few spares...
After overhauling loose bearing bottom brackets, I've decided that I prefer sealed bearing bottom brackets (for Shimano cranks). They aren't period correct, but they last so much longer.
You used to be able to get them in multiple spindle lengths, to fit any Shimano arms. (107mm, 113mm, and 115mm, for doubles) The bearings in the Ultegra ones were very good)
I agree about the sealed BBs.. however these dont see tons of mileage. Doesnt make sense to change them.
Hi John. Thanks for this video! I'm about to overhaul the BB on my 1980s Cannondale. It seems the nut that secures the crank is 16mm. The socket wrench I have won't fit within the space, and I can only seem to find 14mm crank wrenches for sale. Do you have advice? (You mention that you're surprised that your bike is 14mm, and so was wondering if 16mm is common for vintage crank sets.)
I'm pretty shocked that your '80s cannondale would have a 16 mm. Seriously, you don't see that very often. If it truly is a 16, you have to buy a thin wall socket. That will work. Something tells me it's a 15 mm. The bearings in your cannondale unless it is dura Ace probably going differently. Just pay attention to whether it is cage in or cage out as you put the bearings back in.
@@JohnsVintageRoadBikeGarage Thanks for the reply! Upon further inspection, it was 15mm. You were right! Hard to tell in the dimly lit basement. My workaround was to take a 15mm socket and file it down so it could fit within the crank arm. Thank you again.
I'm doing this for a late-80's Fuji Del Rey. It's threaded like the bike in the video. So, the drive-side cup is reverse threaded and everything else is normal-threaded.
I believe that's correct
Always use crank puller with 2 wrenchs one on the flats and one on the spindle,or you could strip crank threads
yup. that works
Great video! I've recently acquired a vintage 70s or 80s FUJI Sagres that has been badly neglected and parked outside for who knows how long. After fighting to remove the seat post, I tackled the bottom bracket. There I found a bunch of rusted ball bearings encased in sandy dried up old grease. Both BB cups and the crank axle are badly pitted so I've decided to swap out the original equipment for a modern sealed BB. I ride most of my bikes so functionality is more important to me than originality although I will keep the parts just in case the next owner wants to restore it. My question; what measurements do I need to look at to get a proper fitting BB? I suppose there are different lengths and diameters. Right? Thanks... I'm now a New Subscriber..
Hi. Two main things. One obviously is correct threading. Second is spindle length. On vintage bikes there is a bias torwards the drive side. Meaning that the drive side is longer than the non drive. However with new BBs most of the time they are not biased to drive side. So be careful that you find the correct one. You may need a more vintage sealed BB. I purchased a more modern BB and learned the hard way!!
@@JohnsVintageRoadBikeGarage Thank you for the reply... I've measured everything and hopefully the one I ordered is correct. 😁
4:42 That looks like „ancient greece“ 🇬🇷🏛️😮
John, I recently acquired a 1971 Raleigh professional. The bike needs some work. One of the first things I’m doing is sending out to be repainted, which requires me to strip the bike down. I’m new to vintage bikes and am not sure of what tooling I need to remove the bottom bracket. I’m mechanical, so once I figure out what I need it shouldn’t be a problem.. any information would be very appreciated!
Sorry i didnt respond. I was on the RAGBRAI ride in Iowa. There are some specific tools you'll need. A fixed cup tool and a ring spanner.. You'll also need a crank puller and a 15mm thin wall socket. Check this video out. czcams.com/video/BLgBiQiQkKM/video.html
@@JohnsVintageRoadBikeGarage I appreciate the info !
I hate that when my pin wrench slips and by the way , great home made tool .
Thanks. I used to have a VAR hard pin spanner. Need another one.
Hello sir I have a question about classic bottom bracket of my Schwinn traveler 86.. my question is this, what if change my classic bb with a new type bb with sealed bearings will it degrade or loss a value of My bike? Thank you sir
In my opinion, I don't think it will change the value of your bicycle.
@@JohnsVintageRoadBikeGarage thank you Master. Always enjoy your videos sir
Very Informative video Wanted to make sure I put my cage Bbearing in faceing correctly
Many have accused me of having them in backwards in this video. Some are Cage in and some are cage out. Just make sure it rolls smooth.
what size is the nut washer and bolt length.
Do you need replacements?
Wow, no comments on Biopace rings on a Dura Ace crank?! I wanted to go back to 52/42 a few years ago and found a NOS set on eBay for $15. I don't care if they were a gimmick...they make the bike go.
Thats a great point. I should of pointed it out. However on a HOW TO video I wanted to stick to the subject. I hated Bio Discrace when it came out. But this bike came with it so I kept it on there for now.
I was taught never to put grease on tapered spindle
Like I said, it's a little controversial, I was taught to wet the spindle just a little bit.
@@JohnsVintageRoadBikeGarage and by 'a little controversial', you mean "a little like arguing which is the One True Religion". ;-)
@@SkyhawkSteve lol.
Never greased our spindles
BUT
it is aluminum on steel. Maybe a di-electric grease?
Usually drive side fixed cup is counter clockwise
Yes! Unless its Italian or French threading.
It is SOLELY dependent upon whether the mfgr. employed a British or Italian BB which are the most common. Rare are the French, Swiss and American BB's
Bán mình một chiếc nhé
Xin lỗi, không phải để bán
That Paramount team bike is the tits!
Firm ones! Thanks
Sorry but I disagree about about putting grease on tapers before attaching crank arms. Taper seals should be air tight and tapers should be absolutely clean of all lubricants before tightening down the crank arm bolts. The crank bolts should be checked after each of the first few rides and re-tightened as needed. Once the tapered crank arms air seal and stop moving the bolts serve no purpose anymore. I remove the steel bolts then and replace them with super light anodized aluminum bolts as they are just for show and to keep crud out of the axle holes.
The biggest issue with tapered crank arms is that they can start to bottom out on the axle tapers after a few removals and installs which can quickly ruin your crank arms as they will not stay tight and wobble. Any lubricant on the tapers is just going to make them bottom out faster.
Phil Wood makes fantastic great looking sealed (pricey) bottom brackets which I switched all my tapered cranks to decades ago. They can last for decades with almost no maintenance and can be rebuilt as well by the factory Their real advantage is they come with over sized tapers which allows reuse of used tapered crank arms which are bottoming out on regular tapered axles.
I also find it much easier to adjust the bottom bracket adjustable cup by attaching the drive side crank arm first (which is basically the way all newer one piece cranks are). You then get leverage to see if there is any bearing play when tightening the cup before attaching the non drive crank arm. You can then place the non drive crank arm on the axle and give the arms a spin to check they spin smoothly before tightening it down.
I get it. Many disagree. Cant argue with ya on that. However I have over 40 years of success doing it this way without issue. However I would understand it would have a different effect on a softer aluminum crankset other than a campagnolo or Dura ace etc. To be sure I only use a glaze of it. Thanks for the excellent input!
Are you selling any of those bikes?
I don't usually sell bikes. I'll be selling five or six. They'll be a video on it when I'm ready. However, it'll be Cash and Carry. I won't be shipping any. Thanks for asking
I grew up in the eighties and trying to find modern vintage bikes today is a nightmare. Every shop wants you to buy their modern sloping bar, tawanise shit. Can you tell the viewers what size bike you ride and what height you are. Also can you make a video about bike sizing, fitting for traditional classic race bikes. Its badly needed.
I've thought about doing that. However the rules of fit has changed since my days at a bike shop in the 80s and 90s. Im 6ft. 32 inseam. I should ride a 58 steel frame..c to top. But I ride some 60cm or even 24 inch frames because im getting older and I like to be more upright. I dont want to put taller stems on everything! lol.
I've managed to get pretty annoyed by this procedure. I'm following your exact instructions on an early 90's Fuji Del Rey, except that I dropped in two new rings of bearings instead of cleaning and replacing the old ones. I adjusted the pressure on the cups, and there was no play and the spindle turned freely. This was true when I grabbed the cranks and tried to wiggle them. Then, I rode the bike for about a minute. The cranks got loose, with a lot of play. I removed the non-drive crank, tightened the cup there, locked it in place, then wiggled the cranks. No play. I rode for a minute. Lots of play appeared. Aargh. And, again: Remove, tighten, replace, wiggle (no play), ride, play. ACK! I have now given up for the night. The cups and lock ring don't seem to be moving. It's really the spindle jiggling, not loose cranks. Next time, I'll just buy a sealed cartridge. Until then, got any hints?
Hi. sounds like you put in the bearings backwards.
This is a Dura Ace bb that im overhauling in this video. so if you put your bearings in the same way there is a 50/50 chance that you have them in backwards. Just take the bearings out of the cages and put them in loose. The grease will hold the bearings in. Give that a try.
@@JohnsVintageRoadBikeGarage Thank you so much for responding so quickly, and on a holiday! I'm 100% sure I put the bearing cages in correctly. I matched the way I found the old bearing cages. (Ring side facing the cup.) Before assembling, I stuck the cage in the cup and put the spindle in there and spun it. It seemed fine. Since I know the cage is pointing the right way, would loose bearings still improve things? You're talking about a lot of work for a novice like me.
If I don't want to pry open the cages and I instead buy new bearings, they're probably 1/4 inch diameter, right? Would I still use 9 per side, or should I go to 10?
The cups are original equipment. While the races are smooth, there's some sort of a thin line next to the race on one of the cups. It made me think of that "bad weld" you mentioned. Might that have something to do with it? I'm not sure it's possible to find a replacement for that cup now that it's 2023.
@@dzerkle if you would like it a hold of me on Facebook. Look for John Haboush. Not John Haboush APS. Get a hold of me there and we could talk on the phone.
On most BBs the bearing cages are on the outside. Just peel back the cages and take the bearings. There is NOTHING that would cause a once tight BB to become loose as long as your cups are tight. Make sure your fixed cup (drive side) is tight as could be and of course your lock ring on the non drive side is tight as well.
@@JohnsVintageRoadBikeGarage After more difficulty, I gave up and disassembled everything again. The cages were bent to the point that the balls tried to fall out on their own. So, either the new cages were supposed to go in opposite to how the old ones did (i.e., you were right about them being backward), or they aren't compatible with my setup. Looking at the cups in the sunlight, I see some light pitting. So, now I'm either going to go with your suggestion of loose balls or just get a sealed cartridge. It looks like a good idea to put in more balls when they're loose, so I put in an order.
I was right to attempt this, though. The old cages were rusty and the old grease was contaminated with the rust.
I think you fitted the cage bearings wrong, the bearing cage must be contact with spindle side NOT the bearings. That's why the cones are curved round to make it perfect fit for bearings to rolls. Many times I watched bottom bracket overhaul, you're the only one I saw that you put the bearings side in contact to spindle. It should be the cage side of the bearings in contact with spindle. Thanks 😊
Hi, it was done correctly. Others felt the same. I opened it back up to check but they are in correctly. If you flip those bearings, the steel cage would be metal on metal with the bearing race on the spindle. These cage bearings are different than others.
@@JohnsVintageRoadBikeGarage . I just became your new subscriber. God Bless! Have a nice day.
@@joman22garcia thanks so much for watching and keeping an eye out for me.
Whew...... When making final adjustment on open bearing BB....., REMEMBER, because, of course, you obviously knew......, that as the lock ring is tightened, it PULLS the adjustable cup OUT, or loosens. When zeroing in on final adjustable cup setting make visual note on cup setting through stamped lettering at 12 O'clock orientation before final tightening and work off that. (Final adjustment many times is no more than one to two degree on the compass between too loose and too tight.) It can save a lot of back and forth time........ Final adjustable cup adjustment should NOT be as you depicted. Final adjustment must ULTIMATELY be with the drive side crank installed so as to MORE accurately through a back and forth "12-3-6-9" (think of a clock) full rotation and flexing of the crank - spindle check for any micro play that many times goes undetected the way you showed. Of course the chain is either not yet installed or dropped on the BB shell so as to be out of the way allowing the crank to rotate freely. Easy correction can still be made if need be to correct any play on the adjustable cup as same is not yet subject to crank installation. When finally right, then install left crank.
It is also best to grease the bearings, fully rubbing whatever grease one chooses into the bearing/ring assembly completely before installing in the cups and also place a micro layer of grease on the spindle races as opposed to letting the assembly..........., kinda, sorta just eventually all come together, kinda, sorta........, whatever................
Also, before assembly of the spindle, fully clean as well the INTERIOR with solution and let dry, making sure the threads are beyond clean, devoid of any grease, bolts too. (Q-Tips do wonders) Why.............? So you can place a few drops of BLUE and BLUE only Loctite (242) on either the female spindle threads or bolt threads so that the bolt when installed will not be potentially subject to loosening over time. NEVER use Loctite green or red !!!!! Blue Loctite does not harden, it simply serves as a soft adhesive, preventing threading from potentially rotating out. Untreated crank bolt potentially can sometimes loosen and the net result ain't funny..............
Most lightly lubricate the washer between the cranks and bolts before installation for more accurate/easier tightening of the entire assembly. Do not over tighten. Typically, you get a maximum of four R&R's before the crank can no longer be used.
ps: Now, as to open bearing HUB adjustment........... Of course, those are always set fractionally "loose". Please tell me you know that !
Thanks for the excellent video.
However: a number of sources have the directionality of the bearings as the opposite of your choice. For example, here's one from Park Tools:
czcams.com/video/sEv8irsdQI8/video.html
Thoughts ?
I don't have time to watch it right now. But I will tell you that there's there's two different types of cages. One where the Cage is very wide. Wide enough for the spindle to fit inside. Usually found in Sr, tange and other brands. Dura Ace and campagnolo are shaped differently where the cage fits into the cup.
You put the bearings in backwards. Cage goes up bearings go down into the race axle rides in centre of bearings.
Absolutely not. If the cage goes up, the cage hits the spindle race surface head-on. Trust me it's correct.
I just checked. Watching the video. If you look at the type of cage bearing this is the frame of the bearing gauge is on the inner side of the bearing. If you look at other Japanese bearings, the cage is connected around the exterior or outside ring of the entire bearing and the spindle fits in between.
If you look at 10 minutes and 44 seconds in, you will see a bearing sitting on the workbench. Imagine putting your spindle down into that bearing. That cage would be right on top of the bearing surface of the spindle. Thanks for watching
@@JohnsVintageRoadBikeGarage you answered my question. It's the other way around on my Japanese Fuji. Thanks for clarifying and great video!
@@JohnsVintageRoadBikeGarage maybe note somewhere that it's more common the other way around, as seen in this Park Tool video. czcams.com/video/sEv8irsdQI8/video.html
I soak parts in kerosene
Yeah! I should of hit on that. If your parts are trashed and very greasy you need to break that up a bit! Thanks for the suggestion.