How much would F-35 stealth jets help Ukraine?
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- čas přidán 3. 08. 2023
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This video talks about a hypothetical situation - what would happen over the skies in Ukraine, and on the frontlines, if Ukraine would get F-35s instead of F-16s? Would Ukraine greatly profit from the better and more advanced plane?
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I play Supremacy 1914 on a daily basis. This game does take you a lot of time if you want to be good. You can play for days without anything and then at war you have to watch every 5 minutes. This game has many tricks with micro and macro management anyways. Recommend if you have a lot of time to invest in
Cry Felon and let slip the Orks of Cope
man, referral system is greasy like Sam the cheeseburger walrus.
More interessting would be what If the Ukraine can become the blueprints and license of the YF 23 an build them.
Wonder weapons after wonder weapons, game changers after game changers, Switchblade, M777, HIMARS, Patriots SAM, M2 Bradley, Leopards 2, F16s etc. What has happened so far? None of them made much difference at all but only revealed their weaknesses. The same will happen to F35.
“What the public doesn’t realise is how dominant the difference in information is.” Legacy jets, with the help of AWACS “may have a general idea that there’s an F-35 out there, but they don’t know exactly where we are",
The distinct information disadvantage causes pilots to get tunnel vision".
“Everything they see becomes stealth aircraft out there. Every radar hit, every communication is about the stealth jet. They want to illuminate or eliminate a threat they can’t handle".
"Even extremely capable operators fall prey to the F-35’s psychological advantage. “It has nothing to do with their skill or technology. They’re at such a technological disadvantage".
“I’ve seen guys in F-18s turn directly in front of me and show me their tails cos they have no idea I’m there".
“It aggregates to a completely inept response to what we’re doing in the air. People are so hell-bent on shooting down the stealth fighter that they invariably make mistakes that I can exploit".
- Dan Flatley, former USMC F-18, and now F-35 pilot.
Great point. A large part of this video is about what the enemy could do against an F-35. But that misses out on the fact that, firstly, they have to do all that, removing focus elsewhere, and secondly, even if they are successful, the F-35 is still a very capable fighter. They also have to defeat that.
All in all an F-35 is by far preferable to an F-16.
Can we get some hypothetical African wars?
or south american ones
ECOWAS vs Sahel Coup Governments would basically be Nigeria kicking everyone's ass one country at a time starting with Niger while the UN pushes for mediation.
We'll see some real ones soon enough by the look of it.
New wave of chinese Corona virus coming to a good near you.🎉
Its hood.......near you.❤
For anyone caring about their mental health, don't read comment section
I read garand thumbs comment section as inoculation
Classic CZcams comment section
For some reason this channel in particular seems to attract comments with the dumbest possible takes and on an F-35 video it's just hopeless.
This should be pinned
Thanks man, no shit - I'm gonna sleep better. Actually I should have known before reading your comment 😊
Ukraine would never get anything better than a f-16 for one simple reason, the US and NATO can't risk russia and china getting their hands on a downed aircraft to analyse it, copy it and find its weakness.
B-b-but Ukraine has Ghost of Kiev, no way would Russia ever shoot down a Ukrainian fighter jet 🤥
The Saab Gripen would be the ideal jet for Ukraine; it can take off from a short runway or road, versatile and affordable. 👍
And apparently easier to maintain than many/most alternatives. The problem is there aren't many of them and even less "extra" ones.
@@sheilah4525 Do you know what A-10 is intended for?
@@sheilah4525 oh yeah lets have an outdated flying gun built solely for close air support as a fighter for Ukraine. Russian AA grews are going to love that.
Yep too few and would have been useful in 2022 but not so much now as Ukraine is not fighting a guerilla war and can defend quality airfields if needed. Ukraine needs a large practical airforce to act as a deterrent in the future, this has never been the air war we would have imagined
I agree, I have always said the Gripen would be a good choice. Hopefully, as time goes on, they will consider adopting it.
If observing how past introductions of advanced weapons-systems throughout the course of this war has taught us anything, it’s that there is no such thing as a magical “wonder-weapon,” that can change the outcome of a war. Far more important is a steady stream of resources being moved to where they are needed when they are needed. If the NATO-bloc continue to neglect that, Ukraine will flounder.
Nonetheless, for the former #2 military in the world to be this gutted against 4-5% older US/European tech is…so embarrassing. I don’t think ppl grasp just how humiliating this is, to the point where mercenaries have outperformed their literal military. Absolutely shameful for the next 1000 years to come smh. Don’t even get me started on their fraudulent Navy and Air Force either, makes my blood boil thinking about how I use respect them🤬
@@hollister2320 , if you mean that Russia is now #1 military power in the world, then you're right. NATOstani mafia has emptied their land military armament and munitions, and their factories can´t keep up with the rate of the actual firing consumption, so in 2 or 3 months the ukronazi regime will collapse and by december will be begging for peace, instead of now trying to force other countries to impose Russia peace conditions during the next saudi meeting, while russian factories now produce in one month what they did during 2022.
What the war in Ukraine showed us... is that there are no wonder-weapons... because you usually have to use any weapon in a smart way... combined with other systems / platforms.
Russians were rushing with their tanks in the middle of an hostile city without any cover... and they were destroyed in consequence.
This led some people to believe tanks were an outdated weapon... but in reality, if used properly... they're still the best way to hold a position while providing cover to the infantry.
I'm pretty confident NATO... or even Ukrainians trained by NATO... are more competent than most Russian soldiers/officers.
The F-35 is a far, far more advanced system than anything we've sent to Ukraine so far though. US military supremacy is built on the strength of its air assets, and the F-35 is the most advanced such asset in service today. The F-117 proved to be impossible for Baghdad's air defenses to deal with, and I believe the same would happen with the F-35 in Ukraine
An F-117 was shot down by an S-200 soviet SAM over Yugoslavia, so you can be sure that the waay more advanced russian S- 350 and S-400 SAM systems will "take care" of those over priced F-35 defective air-planes.@@yomama629 and I don´t include the Su-35 and Su-56 russian jets for not being sure about their long range detection of the stealths.
The F-35 is part of a series of systems. By itself, it's no magic bullet. As part of a larger combined arms force? It becomes a lot more scary.
The F-35 could do SEAD operations. That would make all other Ukrainian air support more effective and less vulnerable
1. Improved HARM missile efficacy under this scenario
2. Radar detection diff than weapons grade lock
I dont think ignoring the trolls is the right call, they should be mocked.
I agree. We should mock the Ukrainian trolls for support their invasion of Russia 😢
F16s go first
Get rid of old inventory
Then make new fighter jets
Radar detection is WWAAAYYY different than a radar weapons grade lock on an aircraft
Actually it isnt
@@jamesmandahl444yes it definitely is.
@jamesmandahl444 just stop posting. You've demonstrated you know literally nothing about the subject matter.
@@jamesmandahl444 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
So, wouldn't the first set of targets for F35s be SEAD to knock out as many radar/SAM sites as possible. That would increase the safety of Ukrainian air forces and make ground support easier.
That would be the first priority for any airforce. Flying sorties with enemy radar and sam assets still active is just asking for trouble.
yes, but I think you need pretty elite training to have air craft knock out anti air crat platforms. I don't think the Ukrainians have time to train their pilots through top gun courses.
@@dan7564 Isn't this specific mission what HARM was designed for? With most fighter missions, training is important, but this is a fundamental mission to make sure the planes stay in the sky. Radars are the target, as the missles need the data to tell them where to go. AA guns, like the Gepard and ZSU have been used for counter-drone operations.
That would imply that the f35 would have arrived, been stored, maintained and managed to take off without getting Kinжal’d 😂
@@guccipucci3941 pfft, the Kinzals couldn't even take out a single patriot battery. What makes you think they could get though several defending an air base?
China will be very interested to test radars and missiles against F35
not just china, but all of the non-white world.
@@sabin97what do you mean by that, white boy 🗿
@@guccipucci3941
i'm not white.
F-35B can absolutely do multiple missions/day. Don’t confuse peacetime readiness with a war time footing. And keep in mind those maintenance hours are man-hours. Provided parts availability, more maintainers added would translate to higher mission rates.
it's inferior to a 3rd gen fighter as said in a report by the US congress in every possible role wtf are you spewing lmao
@@ommsterlitz1805 get off ur russian propoganda sites
@@ommsterlitz1805😂 okay please cite a source
@@wheneggsdrop1701 Source: Russian TV news which every vatnik trusts.
The F-35 would not be feasible in the Ukraine. Simply due to maintenance and logistical needs.
but the promise of F-35s is just as feasible as F-16s or Abrams tanks, or F-22s, or Aircraft carriers, or anything else you can think of to promise, like membership in NATO.
@@Nauda999 I don't disagree.
The U.S should send a bunch of F-16 drones. Most of them are retrofitted to be aerial targets anyway. Ukraine could send them in massive wild weasel missions without sacrificing human pilots.
The loyal wingman program in Australia: *so you need some high performance drones?*
F-16s will offer a huge upgrade because they will shoot long range fire and forget missiles. Right now the russians can send missiles at the Ukrainians while staying behind their own defenses.
Do more releases about Azerbaijan and Denmark. They have interesting, very competent armies!
+
Azerbejdan? Sure they're fighting rn with Armenia
But Denmark? Small country with no enemies? Whyy
@@MrDead00dude dont diss my contry. We will send our very capable bike brigade after you.
@@GigachadicusMaximus he was only joking but OK giga autist
Do Denmark VS Azerbaijan.
Why give the Russian and the Chinese experience first hand in dealings with the f 35 in wartime.
🤔…You have a point.
But would still be bad ass
F35s Would first be taking out ground radars with HARM and airborn with AMRAAM.
After that engage fighters.
First target, imo, would be eliminating the Black Sea Fleet and the support facilities in Sevastopol. Send a squadron and lay waste to a sizable chunk of Russia's entire navy in a matter of minutes. The impact strategically, militarily, and psychologically would be massive. After that? Yeah, go hunt down some radars & SAM sites to open up the skies above the front lines. Hitting AWACs might be a bit tricky. The Belarusian planes are protected by politics. And the Azov ones have a lot of occupied territory to protect them. Might be possible to force a gap to open with a well co-ordinated operation though.
It would be another wonder weapon like Bradleys, Himars and Leopard 2!
You played way too much call of duty and so out of touch.
Poland is just sitting there like the Joker. "Come on, hit me! I want you to do it, HIT ME!"
Habitual Linecrosser fan I see 😂
I think the biggest issue with the F-35 is that it's not easily replaced or serviced. If they break, they have to be sent back to the US (if they can be recovered at all). Meanwhile, there are plenty of EU and NATO countries with F-16s, so getting parts and replacements is easy.
there are also plenty of EU and NATO countries with the F-35
@@quail6129 Plenty is a relative term. Over 4,600 F-16s were made, and counting. Meanwhile there are under 1,000 F-35s, most of them being used by the USA. That's 4x the number of F-35s.
@@ElladanKenet You realize we are talking single digit# of F-35s. It's not exactly a strain on logistics either way.
This is false. Major maintenance of European F-35s, such as for broken engines, is done in Italy, and Israel claims they never need to send their F-35s abroad for major maintenance.
@@Jason-fm4my Yeah, and I still think everyone involved in the deal would rather be talking about F-16s instead, for the other reasons he mentioned. Also, if it's a case of getting like 9 35s or 50 16s, I'll take the 16s.
This comment section is enough to give people AIDs.
Its enough to scroll down a lil then just scroll up its a shitfest always without exception.
So for the first time in history 5th Gen fighters will be sold on the dark web black market? What a time to be alive.
What about X-Wing?
I think Ellensky is lobbying for a Deathstar to use against Russia! 😅😅
Better than F-35
I THINK the most potent part of the f35's use would be scouting and scanning for targets, and allowing artillary and drones to do thier work.
Keeping stealthy, distance, and only attacking if opertunities are massive. This way Far less of the 35 would be taken down
Imagine ukraine getting F-35 equipped with meteor missiles.
Or nukes
Su-57 in "Active" service...... But not being seen in combat.
If you saw it, it would mean it's stealth is not working. There have been a few Ukraine aircraft losses too deep behind their lines for the current Russia AA systems which indicates use of a stealth aircraft.
@@ramrod9556 SU-57 isn't a stealth aircraft anyways.
The can't destroy a squadron of Su-57 yet, because they don't have a fleet of Su-57😂
@@Jason-fm4my Exactly. Sukhoi's own data shows it's about as stealthy as a Super Hornet - RCS reduction, yes compared to the Su-27 family of jets but it's not stealth like F-22, F-35, etc.
You know, the main problem that Russia faces when observing the F-35 with several radars is the fact it still far outranges anything Russia could throw at it. So what if they know where the plane is? The AGM-88G can hit an enemy ground radar at up to 300 kilometers under ideal conditions. Far beyond the reach of all but the most long ranged russian AAMs. Which, i should mention, are designed to hit AWACS and tankers, not a high performance, fifth gen fighter jet. These missiles are dangerous enough for Russia as is, and Ukraine doesn't even have stealth fighters to launch them from.
There is a big difference between finding and hitting something, too. So what if you know where the F-35 is? If you can't hit it (or it can hit you before you can, which is likely, since the F-35 is optimized against short wave radars, aka the ones that are supposed to guide weapons into their target), it doesn't matter that you know where it is. Similarly, the AIM-120 AMRAAM comes with a range of up to 160 kilometers under ideal circumstances. Far beyond pretty much anything Russia has. And this is only compounded by the fact that the F-35 posesses a superior radar, which is compounded even more by the fact that it is a stealth fighter. It sees you first and shoots you down first. And of course, let's not forget that this forces what few AWACS assets Russia has to stay the hell away from Ukrainian territory, thus diminishing their usefulness, lest they be blown out of the sky by an AMRAAM (which is, of course, equally true for the F-16)
Also, given the level of coordination Russia has displayed in this war thus far, i think that assuming they can use ground based radars to guide fighters in to intercept an F-35 is giving them too much credit.
And all this isn't even considering what Ukraine could do with the AIM-260 JATM, which does Mach 5, outranges the AIM-120 by 40 kilometers, and is capable of datalink guidance, so that, so long as some datalinked radar sees the target, the F-35 needn't even turn its radar on to kill an opponent. It's scheduled to enter service at the end of this year.
Aim-120 is actually outranged by Russian long range missles but go on lol
@@phunkracy Yeah, by shitty unreliable missiles from the 1980s that are designed to down AWACS planes, not fighters.
One of the things Russian has gotten very good at in the last couple decades is in mobilizing much of their nuclear and anti-air systems by hiding them in what look like ordinary shipping containers on unassuming freight trains. We don't even KNOW where many of their best AA systems are on a given day, let alone what their current ranges or what mini toons they may currently be packing at any given time.
This makes any deployment of advanced NATO aircraft within a few hundred miles of the Russian border extremely risky.
No it's not designed for war it's designed to be very expensive and hard to maintain to be an economic burden for any allies fools that bough it and milk them dry of budget defense money so they don't start developing there own. It's inferior to a 3rd gen fighter as said in a report by the US congress in every possible role wtf are you spewing lmao
@ommsterlitz1805 That is delusional, and you have no credibility. You are stuck in the 80s.
Love your videos man! Exceptional work. Everytime I want to contradict you, the narrative changes to counter my argument by providing an explanation to the contrary.
The most unbiased presentation of a "What If Scenario" anyone could present.
Truly exceptional.
Honestly, I believe the true capabilities of the F-35 are not really known, and it is a far superior platform than most outside observeres are lead to believe.
Not that they'll ever be flying over Ukraine anytime soon...
You mentioned the 🇺🇦 SAMs covering the F-35’s retreats but what about vectoring in Mig-29 and Su-27s to fire stand off misiles to cover the retreats? F-35s for the initial strikes followed by unstealthy jets with large payloads to prevent counter attacks
There arent many of them + you'd lose them quickly in such way. Also what standoff missiles? None left also not with cold war radars Ukrainians have, you dont shoot missiles blindly
Grim Reapers have a bunch of videos running these scenarios on DCS
Obviously an F35 can't be targeted HUNDREDS of miles away. There's VERY few, if any that can TARGET an F35 from 25 miles away.(detection & targeting are different things)
Constructive feedback: the recap to conclusion in the end is very useful.
Might as well throw in some F-22s, B-2s, etc. and just have the US military kick the Russians out of Ukraine. In a nuclear war, all of humanity dies. In a conventional war, the US kicks Russia out of Ukraine quickly and easily.
What if Ukraine was allowed to use western weapons like F-16's to attack military targets on Russian territory?
Nuclear annihilation
They are and old airframe and would be shot down by air defense missiles long before reaching the front. SU27 are more maneuverable and they don't last long
@@gwyllymsuter4551 Possibly. At least some drones can get most of the way to Moscow before encountering air defense (if they are being brought down by electronic warfare). However it would make more sense to drop a Storm Shadow missile 250km from a target than to fly a manned aircraft all the way, especially if the drones are launched from within Russia.
@@gwyllymsuter4551 Latest block F-16's have far superior radar, avionics, sensors, and EW suites than Su-27's though. They also have a smaller RCS, perhaps comparable to that of the Su-57 (which is not VLO, regardless of what the Russians claim). Their capabilities are classified but I wouldn't be surprised if they could conduct SEAD/DEAD effectively against Russian SAM's
One of the big things of the F35 is also its SEAD/DEAD capability. It can get closer and better detect enemy radar systems, giving it a huge edge in firing HARM missiles and equivalents to destroy them. Comprehensive strikes would create sudden holes in the air defenses which lets other aircraft operate to strike valuable targets. Any air systems are next to useless if there is no search radar to tell them where to look, worse if their targeting radars are also down. Comprehensive strikes could damage multiple radars and subsequently see ammo dumps, artillery systems, tanks and anti-air systems destroyed.
The problem is that Russia has world leading radar and anti-air defensive systems in Russia proper that are well within engagement tangle of most of Ukraine. It is simply too risky to send something so expensive and potentially reverse engineerable aircraft to a theatre in which we don't have absolute aerial superiority.
@@BertoxolusThePuzzled hahahahaaaa
If that were true, Ukraine’s non-stealth airforce would be depleted by now.
It isn’t.
You also completely miss the point of stealth: its designed to reduce the distance at which you are detected, in the meantime you can detect the radar from much farther away than it can detect you. So the question then is: can you get close enough undetected, that the shots you fire can reach the target?
And even if you are detected, it gives you more time to get out of the detection before a targeting radar finds you and can accurately fire at you. And even if it does fire at you, you have more chance of getting out of the targeting radar and giving the missile the slip before THAT can lock on.
I mean Ukrainian aircraft can already fire Storm Shadow missiles and they have used HARM in limited ways because they can’t fly very high and their systems aren’t designed to cooperate with HARM. F35 could fly higher, be detected later, has more range and is designed to communicate with the HARM to get the most out of it.
@@TheDemigans 1) it is depleted mate
2) doesnt make it any less risky to fly high with S-400 that has 300km+ range, f-35 would stay low still
@@phunkracy 1: if it were depleted Russia would no longer perform CAP missions and Ukraine would no longer be able to fire StormShadow.
2: that is kinda dumb. The S400 could have a 1500km range, it doesn’t matter if the F35 isn’t detected or detected far closer. The F35 is more likely to be threatened by shorter ranged systems as those systems would also be in range and would be designated to fire rather than the more expensive longer ranged systems.
You first have to detect it.
Then you have to target it.
Then you have to maintain the target until the missile is close enough to acquire it itself.
Then the missile has to keep track until it hits.
At each stage an aircraft can escape the detection, and a stealth aircraft needs to run less far to achieve it. And it can get closer in the first place. Good luck using 300+km range missiles if the F35 is detected at 50km range. And if the radar is at 50km of the F35 but your S400 is at 300km range, then the targeting radar can’t detect the F35 and properly fire the missile. If another targeting radar is nearby enough, then by the time the missile is close to the F35 it has already had time to get out of the range of the search or targeting radars, making the missile moot. And that is assuming the F35 doesn’t fire HARM missiles and the radar crews are doing their best to save the equipment or themselves.
Stealth isn’t a magic bullet, but it does make it much harder for anyone to respond to them properly. That is the point.
@@TheDemigans Way to tell me you have no idea what's going on in Ukraine, without even realizing you know absolutely nothing about the war in Ukraine...
Zelensky and his government have been going abroad and begging for F16s to shore up their devastated airforce for literal months now.
I'm still not totally buying your "no crucial difference" of F16s vs SUs. I agree that with flying characteristics they are probably commensurate, since they are half century apart designs, practically, but I very much doubt that the radars/FLIRS/FCS that Russia buys from Joe this or that country are equivalent. I would say that we will see, except that I doubt many, if any Russian pilots are going to be stupid enough to go up against those 16s.
One thing that I suspect will make the parity more a thing, at least in the early stages of implementation, is the short shrift training, by design and need requirements, that will show in the Ukrainians, at least for a while. I suspect that they will come up the curve very quickly when they plant their butts in the seats, grab the sticks, and hit the ABs in actual combat situations, and I would suspect and certainly HOPE that ongoing training will be happening for those pilots even during the war, if possible, to get them up to speed on the aspects that were not trained initially, like some modes of air to air missile use, etc.
It may take several months to really get a feel, since Russian pilots were fully trained in the SUs, but at that point it may no longer be speculative. I'm not saying that I am basing this on any real performance comparisons, but more just the track record of earlier US/NATO systems against much later Russian hardware, a la, second tier interceptor Patriot's performance against Khinzhal, and HIMARS, Excalibur, etc. capabilities against their Russian counterparts, since either Russians are targeting civilians, or they can't hit the broadside of Kyiv, one of the two.
I know I've heard nothing but "Khinzhal is unstoppable, nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah", for years, by basically everyone, especially Putzler. Well guess what, not only is it NOT unstoppable, it is virtually 100% stoppable, in the few areas where Patriots are functioning. So far I am totally underwhelmed by Russian 'leading edge tech'. Some of it is capable, but none of it really stands out as truly modern capability levels. And you've seen any of the high tech US/NATO stuff operating yet. In fact, you have seen NONE of the really leading edge AI based equipment operate yet. If and when you do, like say LRASM, you are going to be shocked at it's effectiveness. It can literally be operated against several ships at once, not single ones, and will seek out maximum damage targeting real time, over the group, not single vessels, based on previous damage. I'm kind of looking forward to seeing it, if it comes to that.
Asking what F35s would do for Ukraine is just a hypothetical mind exercise, because they aren't going to get them unless this drags on forever, and most likely not even then. If they ever did, they would be reduced capability versions, as are a few of the weapons in their now, several actually.
Bro said Russia can't make radars and Russian pilots are stupid. Lmao. The most intellectual argument a westoid can come up with. Lol.
I like the cope
So many Radars so few HARMS
If you want them to never have aircraft then they would make a major difference. What I mean by that is that their pilots are finishing up F-16 flight school. If they switched and sent F-35s, they would require many more months' worth of schooling just to figure out how to taxi the darn things. So it is better to let them have the multi-role F-16 so they can start dealing with things like Russian SAM sites using anti-radiation missiles. Once they have the same sites knocked out they can get on to using laser-guided bombs on Russian forces and make a real difference!
I would imagine attacking those radars would be job #1
Used in typical fashion would be wasted as F-16 will be. F-35 should rather be used as force multiplier for reconnaissance, targeting information, electronic warfare, coordinating other aircraft . In any case, F-16 without FLYING TIGERS format ( NATO veteran pilots and technicians, parts and support, based in Poland and full NATO surveillance and targettign support) will be for naught. Just look how long and with what results implementation of F-16 in Poland ended...
Can you Please make a Video about ECOAS against Niger and its allies? With the possibility of French, British (and maybe German) intervention. Binkov at the Pulse :D
I like how all the ruzzian bots just go straight to comments to talk about things they know nothing of without even watching the video :D
Didn't know you are an expert on the subject. Which social media degree did you obtain from, TikTok or Facebook school of aerospace technology?
@@ViolentCabbage-ym7ko when did i say i am?
Without experienced and talented pilots any plane sent to Ukraine, nomatter how fancy, would be useless.
Yes but the Ukrainians know how to fly them or are being trained too
@@biggeisoup9003 You can't become expert in 30 days
@@boulabiarthese are already combat pilots and have flown russian fighters. They simply need training on American notation and network capabilities and flight limits
But they do have talented and experienced pilots, so whatever is sent to Ukraine i'm sure they will make good use of them.
@@jasonprivately1764для f16 минимум нужно 3 года обучения. С миг 29 нужно учиться с нуля, а у Украины нет времени на это, поэтому Украина получит плохих пилотов
Bring back the 0.89 cent coffee at McDonalds!!
This would probably be a war winner for UA.
Your logic of the F35’s being “seen” when turning doesn’t make any sense. If they’re seen when turning then why wouldn’t Russian AWACS see them from above or Russian radar see them from below since both systems would technically see the biggest part of the plane same as when it’s turning?
I think the horizontal distance between the plane's surface and the radar is likely to be much further than the difference in altitude, so that the bottom of the plane wouldn't be at much of an angle to the radar unless it was very close to it (except when turning). But I don't know shit.
No it's not designed for war it's designed to be very expensive and hard to maintain to be an economic burden for any allies fools that bough it and milk them dry of budget defense money so they don't start developing there own. It's inferior to a 3rd gen fighter as said in a report by the US congress in every possible role wtf are you spewing lmao
I love how comments become a playground for each sides’ chills to quarrel with one another.
Could you in the future do the same analysis for F-117?
Thats not gonna happen.
The Reason being that unlike Leopard 2, Himars or Patriot and F16s etc etc.
F35 would have actual State of the Art Technology which Nato would care if Russia got their Hands on it.
Right now while the Nato Equipment Shipped to Ukraine is often Vastly Superior to Russian Equipment.
But from a Nato Viewpoint its still fairly Old Equipment which in terms of Technology is not something Nato cares too much about if Russia managed to Analyse it.
F35 however is one of Equipment Pieces which are if Captured by Russia even if just as a Wreckage. Might actually give Russia Insight into Top of the Art Nato Technology.
An interesting hypothetical aircraft are the electronic warfare aircraft EA-18G Growler or EA-6B Prowler.
14:32 You are REALLY providing a best case for Russia here. They've shown time and time again that large scale cooperation is not their strong suit. They had to shut down air defence in the opening stages because they couldn't keep track of which planes where their own and which belonged to Ukraine, causing them to shoot down their own.
But all this lack of cooperation was the result of inability to practice it on real conflict. It is a matter of fact, that a lot what was excellent in a military exercises goes to hell in a real war with a real opponent.
You can clearly see how Russians are learning during the war, developing ways to counter new weapons supplied to Ukraine and developing cooperation skills. Just compare the difference between previous Ukrainian counter offensives to the current one. Even modern NATO armored vehicles do absolutely nothing on the battlefield and are just targets for practice.
@@dm1i Modern Nato vehicles ? You mean that decade old surplus, ukraine gets ? Well, still better then the several decades older stuff the russians pull out of there withered and rusted down depose. Oh, and yes, russia learns ... after already losing almost everything and repeating the same mistakes they and others did in the cold war and WW2. Tell me when they came up with anything smarter then copy-paste WW2 Blitzkrieg, WW1Trench Warfare and Soviet Human-Waves Attacks.
If Ukraine got F-35’s and used them correctly with HARM missiles, Russia’s radar installations would very quickly become a nonissue. Especially those bigger ones, that would be those pilots main mission in the beginning. Very soon whatever radars Russia has that aren’t blown to shit won’t be to eager to turn them on.
Question I've always wondered-- once return cross sections become so small, why don't they make a drone that returns a similar cross section and put up a cloud of them to camouflage the real plane's position? It got to be cheaper to make something whose only design spec is its return signature.
Similarly, if defense depends on such small signals, wouldn't returning load noise wreck any detection?
Lrasm with decoy mode
They have a decoy that already does that. But an f35 only carries one
Yeah TALD's are already a thing! Tactical Air Launched Decoys, they work just like a JSOW. They are used when doing strikes against enemy anti air defences and things like that.
Those already exist in a fair amount of forms and some types of decoy drones have already been used in Ukraine to disguise storm shadow attacks. The US have provided MALD drones to do exactly that. It’s a decoy missile that imitates a plane so enemy air defenses are distracted as the stealthy cruise missile sneaks past unnoticed.
@@johnathanclayton2887 I love engineering by whining. I can just piss and moan about what someone ought to do, and then, there it is!
And somehow I can take the credit for it.
No because the F35 is designed to be used within the framework of our own strategy and equipment. They don't have that. F16 is a much better choice.
Fr
How much of a difference would the power of anime and friendship for Ukraine make?
More than the incompetent US government and military "advisors" are making.
friendship is witchcraft.
@@longtsun8286 Lol, a vatnik calling another country's military incompetent! When's T-14 making an appearance? Have they worked out how to release the parking brake yet?
@@trolleriffic incompetent yet Ukraine is struggling to get to the first line of defence after 60 days of the counter offensive with all the ammunition and western vehicles it could get.
Just "Binkov may talk about war", not "hypothetical wars". Make sense. Just something I observed.
it would be like a Chess master offering you two Rooks that he controls in a game of chess.
Master piece analysis... 👌
Agreed no bias and 100% pure analysis
You're wrong to say that "they don't offer a crucial technological advantage..." First of all, im assuming recent block models. Second, even the f-16 combined with selection of missiles is superior to thise Russian war planes. The only variable here would be is if the freshly trained Ukrainian pilots could use the state-of-the-art tactics.
Superior to su-35 or su-30? Sorry but no
@@phunkracy what are sorry for?
@@tonyc7352 for you dude lol
@@phunkracy I can't imagine what you mean. This isn't personal, you don't know anything about me. I've made an argument about a couple of machines. Sorry for me how?
@@tonyc7352 for being wrong
The fact that he had to change the title because y’all whine too much is absurd.
What was it originally?
@@pault5356 if Ukraine got the f35 how would it change the war. There was no clarification.
it really depends what missiles they give them.. the plane is only different if they cant be seen.
Wow, I thought this was a late April fools video.
Fun scenario though👍
In reality how weak Russia is really mind blowing
Or Ukraine is strong? They have been preparing for 8 years for this. IMO Ukraine is the strongest army in europe apart from RU (if you don't incude nukes and navy)
Fun video, but 100% won't happen.
Doesn't matter what plane if you don't have experienced pilots.
Question being in sending planes to make F35 kills, how many are worth losing, Pursuit of F35s could be a tactic to drag Russian craft into SAM traps.
This has happened in exercises too, tales of people being so focused on finding stealth aircraft that they'd turn right in front of them or make mistakes.
Okay, now make a video about what if Russia gave ukraine 1000 Su-57s
russia would need Su-57s to exist to make that happen
@@jakem5039 but we're talking about sci-fi scenarios, F-35 in ukrainian air force is as possible as Su-57
@@user-qn3xu5ee3t Politically it will probably never happen, however if NATO wanted, they absolutely could make it happen, over 800 F35s have been produced. On the flip side, Russia doesn’t even have a squadron of SU57s.
@@Tinfoil_Hardhat with every F-35 buyer cutting down their fleet because of how fucking expensive the F-35 is, and with the risk of losing a handful, how the fuck are they supposed to make it happen?
@@Kuraimizu9152 That's blatantly untrue, F35 buyers aren't cutting down their fleets, some countries literally decided to order more. This concept that the F35 is "expensive", is just blatantly false. Maintenance is more expensive than some platforms, sure. The actual aircraft for the A model are 78 million per plane in the latest block. Generally on par or even less than many contemporary 4.5 gen aircraft. The only ones that are really cheaper is the F16 and FA18 superhornet, and even then the modernized versions for both are in the 60 million range, and less capable.
Politically it wouldn't happen but if it did, even a single squadron of these would be a game changer if supplied with the appropriate munitions.
All the Russian bots arguing about whether they can keep up with the F-35 like the B-21 didn't already exist lol
F035's for the Ukraine? Who's right side of the head was buzzing like a beehive with that 'dream'?
Wouldn't have the support required to have secure operations, also entire too much information to reveal within reason, much more reasonable to send a fleet of F-15's instead, everyone has seen them fight so it's of low informational risk and there can be requirements for secure sorties within the lend-lease contracts.
A but of a strange video, F35's strengths would be difficult to leverage without full access to the assets used by western militaries. Primarily datalink.
Exactly what I came to comment. The F35 in Ukraine would be like a smart phone without internet. Yeah it can still do a lot by itself, but the true power comes in the connectivity of a military network.
It's appropriate for a channel based on hypotheticals to ponder a hypothetical question.
It has its own intra-F35 datalink for sharing and fusing info, doesn't need the rest of systems to build a picture and fire discreetly
F35 on it's own wouldn't make much of a difference in the ukrainian army.
It is designed to operate in a nato environment to do it's missions.
To take on russian sams you need full strike packages with specialised platforms and f16 is perfectly good at that job. It has been tasked with that job for a long time already.
Operating these planes before taking care of russian radar systems and sam instalations is just asking for trouble. Not sure if these f35's could perform that job on it's own in a foreign army.
It is an awesome platform but it is designed to be a piece in a puzzle. Stand alone a f35 is far from untouchable.
Exactly. It is a mixed formation craft meant to be one small part o larger information integrated operations.
By itself there really isn't much that it can do better than planes they already have can do well enough, and at a fraction of the cost and risk.
Jesse what the fuck are you talking about. Wether the F-35 can act as a bomb truck is irrelevant if the enemy can't even see your jet.
Same is the excuse that just because it's designed to operate interlinked with other assets doesn't mean it can't do anything if it's not in conjunction with those assets, I don't know what you're smoking but I'd quite like to try some to be honest.
In either case, the stealthiest aircraft on the planet could just about operate with impunity destroying the very radar systems designed to track it.
@@BertoxolusThePuzzledright, because the ability to be seen wouldn't effect any of those other jets in the slightest.
@@highjumpstudios2384 We simply don't know if Russia could see them, as they haven't been deployed against them before and of all the countries on Earth Russia is one of the few with the potential to surprise us militarily
@@BertoxolusThePuzzled you're right. We don't "know" if the Russians can see the F-35 or not. We also don't "know" exactly what the composition of the Abrams armor is. But we have anecdotal evidence that backs up the idea that the F-35 is really stealthy and that they're really good. Like how F-35's and '22s we send up to intercept Russian jets when they fly near Alaska always without fail sneak up on said Russian jets. While there's not a wikipedia page about exactly how stealthy the F-35 is yet, it's not hard to make an educated guess.
But you're right, the Russians are capable of surprising the US military. They've managed to surprise the world and remind everyone how incompetent they are, and that a lot of their equipment was way overhyped.
Why not send them tripods from 2005's "War Of The Worlds?"
24:50 - you got it there -- russia would sell that data to china. China has things russia wants. Things that western countries won’t sell them.
R77 max range is about 175km depending on version qo what are you talking about ?
Honestly Im more interested in if the US can covertly use active service F35s flying in formation with Ukranian F16 planes to
1) Utilise the computing power of the F35s in the sortees,
2) Hide the F35's presence among the Higher RCS.
3) Increase mission success.
Obviously this would be Extremely unlikely, but so is the US giving F35s in the first place.
The moment evidence of active involvement are highlighted, it would give a legitimate right to attack NATO
Ukraine isnt worth that much, best a proxy war
That’s just starting ww3
@@hiteshadhikari "attack NATO" hahahahahaaaaaaa...with the "second army" full of shit? :)))))))))))
@@prokremelskidezolati1426why are you people so gun ho about escalating the war? Are you ready to go out and die?
Are you out of your mind? Yeah let's send NATO aircraft against Russia, that surely won't start ww3. The delusion is hard on this one...
even if ukriane gets f-35 they still need to train for it and it will take so long
8 prototype Su57 will won against 200 f22 according to Russian bots
"Will won"
1 F-16 can take out the entire Russian army according to NAFO bots
russia can take ukraine in a 3 day special operation according to putler 🤣 🤣 @@freetime5803
@@qefewfwdcwdc proofs?
@@noonenoesbutmewill win.
how do you think a grippen will do in ukraine?
Or JAS 39 Gripen as Ukraine is about to get, Ukrainian pilots are already training on the Gripen.
They are training on 3 different fighter types at the same time!
Logistics of F-35s are terrible. When they work they are great, but keeping them working is very hard. I doubt Ukraine could keep them running given the situation in Ukraine. They barely are sustainable in peacetime, there are serious concerns about the Just In Time mentality that underlies the the F-35 logistics in major combat and the ALIS system that underlies it. The Defense News article "‘Just in time’ F-35 supply chain too risky for next war, general says" is interesting
Oh bullshit! F-35 is maybe a 6th gen fight. It would absolutely destroy everything Russian in UA and with 0 losses
@@bobfuts He's not saying that it would not destroy what it needs to destroy, he's saying that keeping it flying will be a problem due to the logistics structure.
As he said, the logistics is set up for just in time parts availability, in war as we are being reminded, you don't have time to wait for the manufacturer to deliver the part to you when you need it. The part and at least 2 spares have to be on hand before you even need it.
@@bobfuts learn to read lmao
¿Para cuando las simulaciones de guerras entre países?
Hace tiempo que no haces ninguno.
Better then any other jet in the world
That's for damn sure
Also the F 22
The ammount of cope from pro Russians is one thing and well, pretty expectable - but I'm surprised how many people just don't understand capabilities of F-35. Or at least how many people that have no idea about them are commenting.
Ukraine doesn't have the money to buy F-35's and no nation in their right mind should 'give away' their most advanced combat fighter/attack jets. Also... nobody likes a false dichotomy.
I mean aren't all 5th gen fighters just supermanuverable dogfighters since thats 100000% what matters. Wait the F-35 in early development and software limited to 7Gs lost to a seasoned F-16 pilot in a dogfight? Ew F-35s are trashhh
:p
Ukraine is just never going to get F35s anyway
@@freddyd1783 Sad part is that some people actually believe in that.
Reading what people who've flow in or against them is pretty eye-opening. Just as an example, one pilot said that the avionics (or whatever they're called) are so good that even a mediocre pilot can do stuff that only the absolute best pilots can do in any other plane. That's a hell of a force multiplier, and that's just one small example of what it brings to the table.
How about Textron’s Scorpion for Ukraine?
we await your orders general Binkov. 100,000 stand ready for your order
QF-16 drones converted from legacy F-16s would be useful for Ukraine. These would be available in large numbers and avoid pilot losses. While less capable in close combat due to latency and situational awareness limitations they could go after ground based Russian air defense systems and reduce the risks for manned Ukrainian aircraft. If necessary, trading a legacy F-16 for putting an S-400 battalion out of action could be worth it. Over time, this could shift air superiority in Ukraine’s favor.
With what money would Ukraine be able to buy those?
@@zadovrus1624 QF-16s are target drones converted from retired F-16s. It's just a matter of waiting for a batch of vipers to retire.
I like how the premise is "nato countries send f35". You mean America....
Non-US operators exist. A lot like how the F-16s projected to be sent (still waiting for America's authorisation) aren't US ones. It's apparently the only plane of the modern age to come close to the F-16's export sales success.
Poland sent $4.5 billion to Ukraine over the past year and a half, which would be enough to buy 50 F-35 jets (and nothing else). America has sent more money in absolute terms, but Poland has sent more as a percentage of GDP, and they seem more eager to help. Latvia and Estonia give even more than Poland as a percentage of GDP, but they're smaller countries. Interestingly, America hasn't agreed to send any F-16's to Ukraine, only to train pilots and allow the transfer, presumably because some like the Netherlands are upgrading to F-35's.
F35B sounds like a bee that kicks ass.
I thought Russia has improved their electronic warfare capabilities since 2022. Have they not?
We can't be sure but it's possible they may have figured out how to put the plug in the socket at this point.
Not really. Hi Mars is still effective. It's just Russian command post or Ammo dumps are way off Hi mars range.
Current Hi-mars gmlrs range is 90km, Ukraine is asking for 150km variant
More for the atacms 300km
Would be pretty incompetent if they hadn't. A year of war teaches a lot.
But the enemy also had a year of war to teach them..
another "Game changer" ...
If only NATO could agree on the game, they are playing 😂
@@richardscathouse is putler paying good, you a..hole? :))))))))
@@prokremelskidezolati1426 ur mad because ukraine cant do sht
The F35 would perform as good as all the other game changing wonder weapons who help the Ukraine to succeed.
Today nothing is a wonder weapon just a bunch of advanced system that will help Ukrainian heroes kill as many invaders as possible efficiently at least thats what anyone who knows military stuff will tell you. You cant just take media which often just need some sensations as trusted source. And its for both camps just on the start of the war our media freaked out from russian supersonic missile more than Hitler did from V2...turned out its just ordinary missile, same with modernized t90m, terminator, su57, t14 etc. etc. tanks which sputnik wrote about that they could fight on moon didnt even make it to the frontline and terminators said hasta la vista after couple of minutes there. All of these were supposed to be wonder weapons...werent. Have a greater array of good/very good system is better than search for something that in the end dont even have to work as intended.
Tanc A Lelek would start playing.
It’s not possible. So don’t dream.
The Dutch support sending ATACM's, just like we support training and sending f-16's for the brave Ukrainian people, who defend not only themselves, but the whole of Europe!
Greetings from the Netherlands, Amsterdam
The F-35 spends less than 1/3 the maintenance time per flight hour of the F-16? Dayum! Sounds like the electrically-based systems are doing their job.
And you seriously believe it? Plus dealing with expensive missions more than f-16. Bullocks 😂
@@alexnderrrthewoke4479 Yeah, it is probable. The F-35 has a less complex bleed air system than the F-16 because the bleed air starter has been replaced with an electric motor.
The F-35 also does not have a distributed hydraulic system. It is power-by-wire and uses individual electrohydrostatic actuators at each moving part, which are powered by electrical connections.
The F-35's APU uses jet fuel instead of hydrazine (a hazardous chemical requiring special handling equipment) like the F-16's EPU.
The F-35's on-board diagnostic system is more advanced than the F-16's, and likely helps reduce maintenance times, but this is largely unknown and unquantifiable so for these purposes I will not factor that in.
So yeah, the fact that the F-35 has nearly eliminated 2 major moving parts systems, and completely removed one of the hazardous fluid needs from the F-16 likely reduce its maintenance time requirements to less than that jet.
@@f38stingray the F16 has a hydraulic starter called the JFS. it uses hydralic accumulators from the braking system to power it. also the F35 uses the same system.
The F22 also uses the same system.
@@Fatallydisorganized Thanks for the correction that the F-16 and F-22 are hydraulically instead of pneumatically-driven. I'm not sure if hydraulic or pneumatic starters take more maintenance time. I speculate hydraulic ones might be even more maintenance-intensive, since they'd operate at higher pressure and involve another type of fluid. But, they might be advantageous by being lighter than pneumatics, again due to higher pressure.
I stand by the F-35's system being electrically-driven, and likely requiring less maintenance time than hydraulic or pneumatic systems.
CZcams filters links so I can only direct you to the article titles.
The F-35 Air Vehicle Technology Overview by Wiegand et. al. discusses the integration of the electric starter with the F-35 and F135.
Overview and Analysis of PM Starter/Generator for Aircraft Electrical Power Systems by Zhang et. al. details operation of electric starter-generator systems in the same class as in the F135.
3 weeks to train ukr soldiers in nato, is it 3 weeks too for f35? Also sophisticated sensors on f35 require isr, awacs, command control, will f35 for ukr come with this too?