40w diode vs 40w Co2 laser
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- čas přidán 4. 09. 2023
- Diode lasers have come a long way in the last few years, but can they compare with a Co2 laser? In this video I take a look at the xTool D1 Pro 40 watt module and compare it against 40w Co2 lasers.
My old 40 watt Co2 Muse from Full Spectrum Laser is mostly what I use to compare against my 40w diode module from xTool. I have used many brands of both Co2 and diode lasers, and while I reference this 40w module from xTool I speak in general terms to compare the two categories. Most diode lasers with equal optical output perform the same in the category, which is the same for Co2 lasers. It wasn't until recently a 40w diode laser was even on the market because this category has come so far.
What type of materials can you cut and engrave with a diode laser vs a Co2 laser? What are the spot sizes or beam sizes of diodes or Co2 lasers? Is a Co2 laser faster than a diode laser? These are only a few of the questions I answer in this video. I hope this will help people looking to start laser engraving compare the different types of machines.
Thanks to MakeBlock for sending this 40w module to me to test.
UPDATE:
Upgrade your laser for safety and savings! Trade in any open diode machine for an enclosed xTool and get up to $500 off: bit.ly/3vHLipP
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My equipment setup:
xTool D1 Pro 20w
RA2 Pro rotary
Air Assist
Check out my channel to see the other machines I use
#xtool #laserengraver #laserengraving - Věda a technologie
Upgrade your laser for safety and savings! Trade in any open diode machine for an enclosed xTool and get up to $500 off: bit.ly/3vHLipP
If you'd like to upgrade your xTool to the 40w module or get the whole kit, here's the link. Make sure to use code "VW10" at checkout for an additional discount. www.xtool.com/?ref=FCYiXVqZuxgXT&
I am on the fence about purchasing a 40w co2 or the 40w xtool. I will be using it to make rubber stamps and engrave the same image onto the wood stamp block. I know in this video you said you have made rubber stamps but I could not find that video on your channel. I would need speed of the diode laser to be as efficient as the co2 to be profitable. Also if you were going to be making stamps as a business full time which laser setup would you choose. Thanks in advance.
Before hearing you say a diode laser cannot engrave acrylic or shiny surfaces, I just saw a guy in another video use a diode laser to engrave glass using chalkboard spray paint, with the paint side down; so the laser passed through the glass to the painted surface. It looked like it turned out pretty well and he had many examples. 😊
Technically there are ways to manipulate the mediums for various techniques to work, but glass is not acrylic.
Great review, I have watched a lot! of laser reviews over the years but learned so much more with this vid, things no one else I've watched had ever mentioned. So thanks
Glad it was helpful! Thank you for the feedback. It's always tough to know if I've overcomplicated the delivery or not put enough in. I appreciate that.
Great video,Matt! Thanks for sharing!
Thanks Mike! I appreciate that.
Great Video Brother! I live near Spring Tx just outside of Houston still no rain. I really appreciate your videos.
Thanks so much. I thought we would get some yesterday, but only about 10 minutes worth. I'm ready to start making some fall projects, but I refuse until it's in the 80s. LOL!
What I don't understand about these cheap diode lasers is the fact that they don't have an enclosure. And they didn't even have honeycomb beds up until recently or air assist. Logically these should have an enclosure to help with fume extraction and as a safety feature... Although I applaud their improvements, they really need to start making enclosures a standard for all of these.
I agree that class 4 lasers are more dangerous, but it is a way for people to get in at a lower cost. Unfortunately most are inexperienced which adds to the dangerous nature. I just reviewed the S1 and I think the class-1 lasers should be the industry standard for entry level lasers. Check out the S1 video if you’d like to see more about that one. I’m also reviewing the WeCreat which is also an enclosed class-1 diode.
Do they normally come with glasses when you buy one new? My daughter bought one second hand and it didn’t have glasses in the package. I’ve just purchased a pair for her but I’d be surprised if they aren’t normally supplied if purchasing a new laser. I sort of agree with the fumes problem but I guess if the area is well ventilated, it might be ok but there’s no way you should use one without eye protection. They should be included at the minimum. It probably is a matter of price that an enclosure isn’t the standard. You’re right though, it would make them a lot safer with having fume extraction and a laser rated lid with some sort of interlock for eye protection. At least with an enclosure, you wouldn’t have to worry about other people walking into the area.
@oldchev2850 yes, they come with the necessary glasses.
Oh ok thanks
That's good to know👍
They come with glassess... Very rarely do they come with what you would expect to actually be on a good set of them. You will not get any data about the rated optical density at a given wavelength.
The likely reason for this is they almost never are the right kind for a UV laser at around 395-405nm if you can see UV leds (easily found these days) through the goggles then they are not the right kind. I can't speak for this brand in particular but I've seen a variety of them come through my local makerspace that do not come with the correct eyewear.
They are almost always green goggles that are laser saftey googles that are mass produced for industrial applications (thus easy and cheap to get in bulk and are merely technically laser safety goggles) intended for fiber lasers that operate at a shorter wavelength.
Great video Matt.
Thanks dude. I know I can always count on you to be one of the first comments. I appreciate that!
Great video! Very informative
Thanks Corey. I appreciate that.
Very informative, thank you!
Thank you, Bailey! I appreciate that.
Awesome Video! You have talked me into getting a laser for the shop
Thanks so much! Glad it helped. You’re gonna love what it can do.
@@VoeltnerWoodworking the versatility is incredible. I always thought I could get away with tracing from a template with a router or bandsaw. But the ease of use and accuracy will pay for itself
Oh man, I never want to hand trace and route anything again. LOL Such a time saver.
Nice video, but I always find it amusing when people ask how thick of a piece of wood can it cut. I'm more interested in how clean and fast can it cut and engrave on realistic thickness wood like 1/4". Keep up the great work.
Definitely. I’m also very interested in the quality of the cut. It’s funny to see people cutting 2x4s…not very practical. Lol. Thanks so much.
Great review! And I can relate to those hot Houston area temps! Lol
Hahaha. Thanks. Finally a cool day here today!
This was very informative.
If i ever get one, I'd likely want the rotary tool as well. I would most likely use the laser to engrave metal, plexiglass, leather and wood, as well as cutting wood and plexiglass (maybe leather, cardboard). I think I'd prefer the 40W IC laser, simply because i don't have the room for a CO2 laser and all the support equipment.
In fact, right now, that's the main reason I'm not getting any laser cutter/engraver!
But I'd like to have one....
Thank you. Stay away from plexi and do acrylic. There are some materials you’ve got to be careful with. A 40 diode sounds like it will work perfectly for you.
Thank you for this video. Is charring the same whether you’re using a diode compared to co2?
They are fairly consistent. It really depends on the speed, power, and materials you are using.
For printing on glass and other clear plastic, have you tried putting a wet paper towel? Lay the paper down and mist with water until soaked, then flatten the bubbles out. Burn with the laser onto that wet paper towel, it will vaporize the wet paper and the excess moisture will wick heat out of the plastic making a cleaner cut/engraving. It also eliminates the reflection or passthru of the laser.
Another thing to engrave. Is mirror. You have to flip the image horizontally and cut the back of the mirror, and it will show through as an etching. Very nice to glue white felt on the back of the mirror for diffusion and backlight it with an led.
The paper towel method sounds interesting. Will give that a shot. I’ve done a few mirrors. Looks cool, just not my favorite thing.
@@VoeltnerWoodworking It works very well. Also keeps glass from splintering and fuzzing up the edges of the etch.
Hi, thank you for the nice video ! is a diode laser the right tool to cut 20mm PE foam ?( for inlays in cases ) if so 20 or 40 watt ?
While I haven't done it, I've seen it done with the 20w D1 pro before. If you can afford the S1 laser, it's fully enclosed so you won't have to worry about the fumes when cutting. The link to the S1 is here in case you wanted that instead of the D1 (link to D1 in description): www.xtool.com/products/xtool-s1-laser-cutter?ref=FCYiXVqZuxgXT&
I hope this helps! Let me know if you end up getting one so I can see how the projects turn out.
thanks great video, I'm new on this and looking for a laser machine, now I have a question, you said you can't engrave on acrylic with this machine, can you just cut?, if i want engrave on acrylic what do you recommend? thanks for the help. compare to xtool S1 40 W, do you recommend this machine for the price?, and this can engrave on acrylic.
Thank you. With a diode laser you’re going to be limited to dark acrylic like black, but it won’t cut or engrave clear acrylic. I recommend checking out a couple of my newer videos, specifically on the P2, depending on your budget. Feel free to comment on any of the videos you have questions on. I’m happy to answer.
Hı great video thanks. İ have a question. İ want to cut brass plate 0.05mm to 0.1mm thick which of the lasers will cut?
Thank you. You’ll need a fiber laser to cut metals like brass, unfortunately. They can be a bit pricey, so depending on the scale of the amount of projects you’d be doing it may not be worth the cost.
The colors you are getting on the engraving are from heat treating the steel. It is the same as flame bluing the steel. You could likely get a better straw color if you slow down the passes slightly for that section.
After I published the video I ended up doing a series of tests for the colors and it really depends piece to piece the colors you’ll get. The same speed and feed looks different on each piece because of the nature of the material. Still get some really cool color combos with it that are fun to play with.
I hear air assist is important. Lasers can be refracted and scattered by passing through the smoke from cutting. Air assist blows the smoke away keeping the cut clean.
It definitely dissipates the heat around the laser head and removes debris, making for a cleaner cut or engraving.
I am on the fence about purchasing a 40w co2 or the 40w xtool. I will be using it to make rubber stamps and engrave the same image onto the wood stamp block. I know in this video you said you have made rubber stamps but I could not find that video on your channel. I would need speed of the diode laser to be as efficient as the co2 to be profitable. Also if you were going to be making stamps as a business full time which laser setup would you choose. Thanks in advance.
I would definitely check out the P2. I made a couple of videos on that machine on my channel if you’d like to check them out. I didn’t do stamps on those videos but it is a good machine.
Hello Voeltner! Some time ago I bought the Xtool Pro 10W, so what is needed to upgrade to a 40W one, I mean, is it just the Laser Module? Thanks
Apologies for the late response. I missed this comment earlier. You can buy the upgrade module. There is a link in the description. xTool also has a trade in program where you can trade in your D1 for a credit toward a higher end machine like the S1. I hope that helps.
@@VoeltnerWoodworking Thanks!
watching other vids in respect to the X-Tool diode units, there is a bit of noise saying that you require fume extraction and air assist. Is this true for the CO2 units also?
For the XTool P2 you do not need an air assist. It’s built into the machine. A fine extractor is highly encouraged but not necessary if you’re venting it outside.
Cheers, thanks for the prompt reply
I just published my video on the P2 this morning if you’re interested.
This is the CO2 laser to beat! My xTool P2 laser review
czcams.com/video/yR17uB5HiiM/video.html
It’s clear that you are able to laser items that protrude out the side of the machine between the legs, but can you laser, say, a cutting board that is, for instance, 50”x50” and have it sitting on top of it while it cuts, or would that mean that the workpiece would be too low for the laser to burn?
You can absolutely do that. The head lowers enough for you to get perfect engraving on larger surfaces. Hope that helps.
What about cutting various types of foam, foamcore, polystyrene, extruded polystyrene (XPS), Depron foam etc? Thanks! It sounds to me 'gas' lasers are more versatile, however my question is which is better for foam medias.
For foam your best bet is a Co2 laser. Check out the P2 laser. It’s a great choice for that.
Sir, does this diode laser engrave PES(polyether sulfonate) in order to produce graphene ?
I'm not entirely sure as I have not tried. I would recommend a closed system like the xTool P2 so it can be vented, but then that limits the size you can cut.
I was thinking about getting the 40w bundle but they don't have it anymore. But once it comes back I'll most likely get it unless i get the Falcon2 40W Laser Engraver & Cutter Combo instead.
I was wondering if I get the 40w xtool laser can I use a different covering for it?
It looks like it’s temporarily out of stock. It’s nice to be able to upgrade the modules like the 1064 IR if you want. I don’t think it will handle other modules as natively as their own platform, but I’m not sure. May be worth checking through the forums to see if that’s possible.
@@VoeltnerWoodworking will do thank you
@diplayball The gray 40w module is now available. The red is still out of stock, but hopefully it will be back soon. Here's the link for the gray if you want: www.xtool.com/collections/machine/products/d1-pro-10w-laser-machine-40w-laser-module?_fid=04c48bc5b&_pos=3&_ss=c&ref=FCYiXVqZuxgXT&
@VoeltnerWoodworking thank you and I'll keep and eye out for the red one and the bigger bundle
It’s available again!
just tried your link for the xtool 40 watt machine and got a 404 error. I don't know if it is a current link or not or if some kind of blocker on my pc. If this link is still good, let me know and I'll look into a possible issue with my computer. Just wanted you to get the credit for the purchase. I'm still browsing at the moment but am seriously looking into adding laser work to my wood shop as a business. Thanks for the great information.
Sorry for the late reply. If the link still isn’t working you can still use code “VW10” at checkout. Glad you enjoyed the video.
So friggin cool!
Freakin lasers. 😂
Great video, I learned a lot, thanks
Awesome! Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching.
Hey All, how does the diode laser work on black marble using PhotoGrav program. I work a 300dpi but up to 1000.
I'm not too familiar with that software, but with the xTool machines you can use Lightburn which will give you quite a bit more control over the quality of the image. You can adjust the lines per inch (LPI) to as fine as you'd like to get good image quality. Looking forward to seeing if anyone else can comment on your question so I can learn more about the program.
The only material I am intersted in etching is Carbon Fibre with a logo - can this be done?
I believe carbon fiber is toxic, so it shouldn't be laser engraved. You may be better off with a CNC router/spindle machine for that.
you are the best teacher
Thank you!
Hi, thanks for sharing. I am looking for laser to burn weeds in agriculture. Can you suggest any product ?
I’m not sure I understand exactly what you’re wanting to engrave.
I was just looking into lasers thr other day. I have experience on a co2 laser and all its nightmares, but i really dont need anything super powerful so maybe the xtool is worth a go
I would recommend also checking out the S1. It’s a fully enclosed diode unit. Very impressive.
czcams.com/video/u8oyTlRlMAQ/video.html
Will the IR module cut clear acrylic?
Unfortunately no. For that you’ll want a CO2 laser like the P2. I hope this helps.
www.xtool.com/products/xtool-p2-55w-co2-laser-cutter?ref=FCYiXVqZuxgXT&
No, best way would use it for engrave and use paint or black marker. It can come out decent enough if done right tho. But the extra steps for this is a pain at times. Cutting is a no go be impossible
Another great video. I’ve been toying with the idea of seeing if I could add a diode laser head to my co2. This might have to be the head to try it with. 👊🏻
Thank you! Oh man, that sounds like fun!
Do you do classes?
Just here on CZcams. 😆
trying to figure out which route to go... my house doesnt have a workshop or garage :(
The S1 is great. It’s quite a bit bigger than the D1 but if you have a few extra square feet then the S1 is a fantastic machine.
@@VoeltnerWoodworking great thank you
The xtool 20 watt is almost double the price of the creality Falcon 20 watt laser and it comes with a honeycomb . It seems we would be paying $700 just for the xtool name.
Can you swap out the modules for the 40w or add an infrared module? I don’t believe Creality has an IR module yet. The ability to have an IR module for that price is pretty good in my opinion.
Also, it’s about a $450 difference at the moment between comparable packages.
I would love to upgrade my 20 to a 40 watt!
It makes a huge difference, for sure.
I feel you did the tempura pain wrong! at least from the video you show it on the bottom of the glass you should use it on the top of the glass closest to the laser! It causes the temp to drastically climb if it is under the glass its heating after the laser has already passed through the glass! I make whiskey glasses, pint glasses etc. with mine and have found the paint closer to the laser makes a far cleaner etch into the glass! Also for the colors on the stainless if you slow the speed down drastically it will also change the colors again as you said its a heat thing the faster your etching the lower amount of heat goes into that exact spot
I’ve tried both methods with paint and this seemed the cleanest for my results, but each laser is a bit different and may give different results. Thanks for the comment.
ami missing something?? the link is for a 20 watt??
Unfortunately right after this video was published the 40w went temporarily out of stock. You can keep an eye on it, but here is the link for the 40w bundle:
www.xtool.com/collections/machine/products/d1-pro-10w-laser-machine-40w-laser-module?_fid=4f06d0b28&_pos=3&_ss=c&ref=FCYiXVqZuxgXT&
Do you know the colours come from when you engrave on stainless steel ?
I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you asking for the colors or why they were created?
Hi
I think you have done great comparison job. I have a CO2 laser and know I cannot get such colours on stainless steel ....not even the range of natural oxide colours that happens when you torch stainless. These do not look anything like the natural oxide palette so I was wondering if your curiosity had ventured beyond commenting on them. I can observe that you have a strange variation of the orange theme It could be that because this laser works with a PWM'control system, the pulses going left do not align with the pulses going right and you have a strange aliasing pattern. Despite the truer colour, I detect the same slight botchiness on the blue. These are the sort of issues that fascinate me so I wondered if you can explain how the limited palette of colours can happen from just a monochromatic beam of blue light. If you change the line spacing or frequency do the colours change or disappear? A subject for a future video?
Thank you. It’s a combination of speed and power settings that creates the color variation with the diode laser. There are many other colors that can be created with adjusting these settings, and it does have a bit to do with how quickly each segment overlaps the previous; changing the timing from when the laser passes over again allows for more or less cooling off the material which alters the results.
@@VoeltnerWoodworking Thanks for the though but yours and my CO2 lasers have power, speed, line spacing, heating and coolig adjustments so why cant we get colours? I need to do more research.
@SarbarMultimedia you will not be able to get those colors with a CO2. It’s the blue light diode laser that reacts with the stainless. I also have a CO2, and can confirm you will not get these results with that type of laser.
You had me a 3/4 Birch, the world should be built out of Baltic Birch
Very easy to work with and looks great!
Nice overview! I’m really considering a K40 because I’m drawn to the hackable nature of it, but you make some strong points for the modern high-power diodes and their simpler support and maintenance needs.
You should read up on PPE though, as that dust mask you were wearing is not going to stop you inhaling smoke which is very harmful. Really need to evacuate that smoke anyway, but if you insist, a respirator would serve you better.
Thank you. Most of the time my lasers are exhausted but for videos I leave them open. Also, the fumes from wood is a lot less than I inhale next to my bonfires. 😂 My RZ mask has a carbon filter and filters to .1 microns with replaceable filters. 👊🏼
Compared alot of these machines & I keep going back to Xtool. Trying to decide beweeen D1 Diode or Co2. I am a beginner. Speed is not really a factor to me. Can you name something a Co2 can do that Diode can't. Trying to justify buying the CO2 or S1. I am.so confused & just ready to buy.
A co2 laser can cut clear acrylic whereas a diode cannot. Check timestamp 01:51. That’s one of the biggest factors and reasons why people end up going with a co2. It used to be diodes didn’t come in these powers so co2 was the only option, but not anymore. Check out my video on the S1. That is the machine I recommend over any other machine for beginners.
@@VoeltnerWoodworking would you recommend the s1 over the omtech polar to start a small biz , I primarily want to engrave and cut leatherette patches and engrave tumblers. Ideally I would like to have the option to do as many things as possible since it's my first machine, but if the s1 is a much better option for what I'm primarily looking to do then I could go without doing glass or acrylic. Thank You
@AlexElizabethDiaz-mb8fp work area is similar, the bonus of the S1 is the ability to do curved surfaces and add the conveyor options. Sounds like you wouldn’t really use those functions much with leatherette or tumblers. The spot size on the Polar is smaller so you may be able to get finger engraving, but speed is higher on the S1. Hard to say between those two because they are each unique in their own ways. If you’re not limited by budget, the XTool P2 is my new favorite. I just posted a video on that. If you’re limited by budget and stuck between the S1 and Polar, it will likely come down to whether you think you’ll do either metal or acrylic. If more metal than the S1 is a great option because you can always add the IR module. If doing acrylic then the Polar is the way to go. Hope that helps. Check out the P2 video I just published if you want another option.
@@VoeltnerWoodworking So I just watched a video of a person who makes "metal patches" for hats, but is actually using a very thin acrylic and ends up looking like metal, I think it looks really good. Anyhow, since I plan to do hats I would definitely want to have that capability, so a co2 it is, and yea I did check out the p2, thing is there's other options around it's price like the thunderbolt , or an aeon Mira 5 , would you still choose the p2 ? Thank you for your reply I appreciate it!
I'll name a converse -- the S1 can etch stainless and some other metals. CO2 doesn't touch it (it can engrave anodized or you can use theramark, but raw metal... just doesn't work)
The clear acrylic is... dangit... CO2 only. Can X1 cut tinted acrylic? You might be able to etch with the wet-paper-towel method, but I dunno if you're ever going to get "cut..."
If you were going to buy your first laser with hopes of starting an ETSY business which would you start with... F1, Co2, Diode ???
Etsy is pretty competitive, and you're going to be competing with businesses who have production/larger machines. I'd recommend checking out the S1 or P2 lasers depending on your budget, and if it will be your primary business you'll want to get a machine with a larger capacity at some point most likely. Either of those machines (S1/P2) will work well for getting started, but it will depend on the type of projects you're wanting to do. After doing this video you just watched I have since reviewed both the S1 and P2 lasers, and they are my newest recommendations. Here's the P2 video czcams.com/video/yR17uB5HiiM/video.html but I also have a couple of videos on the S1 you can watch as you make your decision. I hope that helps!
So why can't a diode laser cut the same materials as a co2 laser even with the same wattage?
It has to do with the wavelength of the machines, not just the wattage. They operate on different wavelengths. I wish there was a one-size fits all.
@@VoeltnerWoodworking ok thanks that's interesting.
If they are watching this 5 months after you released the video, they need better account managers. 😆
Hahaha. Nah, YT just pushed it to you 5 months too late. Good thing you’ll get those notifications now. 😜
I like snacks.
Best part about letting the machine do the work, so I can snack. LOL!
well guys, for a DIYer like me a 40w laser module costs as a 40w co2 whole build.
That's cool, but of course that doesn't account for your time I assume?
No way it's that fast. 400mm/s (or 600mm/s?!) is insanely fast. I don't think anything would even cut at that rate. Actually it seems impossibly fast for something with that heavy of a gantry and the giant laser model. 3D printers can't even go that fast with that much weight. They must be confusing 400mm per MINUTE not per second. That's more normal for these desktop CNC machines.
I have run tests at 400mm/s and the engraving is light, but it does run at that speed.
@@VoeltnerWoodworking I don't know what controller xtool uses but almost all these small machines uses mm per minute. So you used a feedrate of 24000? eg. "G1 X100 F24000". Because that would be 400mm/s. I still think we're talking about 400mm/m.
@_droid no, it’s 400mm/s. In both the XCS and Lightburn software those are the rates. I do extensive testing on these machines. Feel free to look at the channel. To be clear we are talking about engraving speed and not cutting speed.
@@VoeltnerWoodworking All machines have an upper speed limit. You can set a 400mm/s feed rate but it will only run at the max setting (if using GRBL you can look at $110, $111, and $112 variables in mm/minute). It has only been very recently where even 3D printers can achieve this speed, and just barely, with super lightweight components. Edit: Please let me know what you find out because if it can so an actual 400mm/s that's pretty good.
Maybe take a look at the link and see the speed. Others have also reviewed this at 400mm/s, but if you feel it can't be done I won't be able to convince you. shorturl.at/vTX56
How much did X tool pay you for this ad?
Nothing. I was very transparent in the video if you watched. :)
Also, the premise of the video is mentioned in the beginning.
xtool commercial
I was pretty open I was discussing the features of the xtool. Bye.
this video makes me question reality
Welcome to earth. 😝
You can't compare a solid state laser with a gas laser! 🤷🏻♂️🙄
They have completely different wavelengths!! 🤦🏻♂️😝
I guess you didn’t watch the video. Bye.
Why do you always say cut? You're not cutting anything. You're burning through it.
For your awareness, in the XCS software the correct term used to "burn" through something is referred to as a "Cut" path. You can download the free software to educate yourself if you'd like.
Like a plasma cutter? I'm fine with cut == thru, engrave/etch == surface.
Then you can say things like "this will engrave stainless, but won't cut it"
I'm confused. I don't think I referenced plasm machines, did I?
@@VoeltnerWoodworking Nah, I was replying to @user... -- I just use "cut" for anything thru, and engrave for everything else, so plasma cutter, tubing cutter, acid etch, glass etch, etc.
And then we start talking about "cutting" dados and half-laps... well, it all falls apart sometime ;)
Speaking of cutting 2x4s... I've used my machine (k40) and 3d printer to do those "Japanese joinery" on plastics... so being able to do that would've been way cool.
Probably needs 1KW or something silly though. 1 KW can cut SS... the leather/wood clicker die company I use has one of those...