Analyzing Evil: John Kramer, The Jigsaw Killer
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- čas přidán 27. 10. 2020
- Welcome everyone to the tenth episode of Analyzing Evil! Our feature villain for this video is John Kramer from Saw, and was the third highest vote in the poll I had for videos featuring Halloween-esque villains for the month of October. Thanks for watching, and if you have any feedback or questions feel free to let me know below!
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#Saw #JohnKramer #Jigsaw - Krátké a kreslené filmy
I think the idea that he gives ppl a new lease on life is funny because if I survived that i would be OBLITERATED by PTSD
An endless night of torment and prong to addiction, a mere walking flesh that ends only in death.
@nick m. In Saw VII, you can see plenty of survivors talk about their experience, I highly doubt all of them ended up involved.
Some grateful, some others only see one benefit: "Handicapped parking at the damn mall!"
@@peak2381 I liked that scene because it helped put into context how people felt about it, most people you see either die or you only see the game. Its a shame the saw franchise is mostly wading through crap for some genuinely interesting ideas and world building.
@nick m. That's what I liked about Hoffman's reign. He leaves the survivors alone.
For sure, and they touch on that in the 6th movie I believe. At one point the survivors of Jigsaws traps express that they didn't "learn" anything by surviving his game. Only that they are now crippled and struggle with just living everyday life.
His voice just screams "in the criminal justice system sexually based offenses are considered especially heinous"
These are their stories lmaoo
DUUUNN DUUUNN!!!!
"In New York City the dedicated detectives who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Special Victims Unit."
Yessssss
It soothes me when I go to sleep.
“Doesn’t target anyone who hasn’t committed anything terrible” he crushed a mans chest because he smoked in the 7th film
Well arguably smoking is pretty terrible, smells like hell and rots ya lungs, plus effects everyone around you
Edit: Do you bastards not understand playing devil's advocate?
@Fresh Beginnings lol
I haven't watch the movies in a while, but I always remembered Dina Meyer's character died for "Overly enjoying her work in situations involving death" pretty sure, she wasn't the only one given the most token reason by the script to justify death by trap.
i have feeling John only reaily does this becuse he likes it, and the vigilante stuff is just an excuse
@@thedisabledviking I think after a while it is similar to Light in Death Note, you start off telling yourself this is some grander ideological venture, but in the end lot of the killing are because people stand in your way.
I feel like the Saw series would've made for a really interesting series of films if they were solely a character study of John and his descent into madness. It could focus on how his desire to help people becomes warped and how he justifies his new, more radicalized methods to himself. It would be fascinating to me to see how a man with such a noble goal could go take such a dark turn in his methods and still feel he's helping people. The mental gymnastics he must go through would be amazing to see. All the while he's pushing those close to him, those who need his help, away.
I dunno but the flashbacks just barely scratched the surface for me. And I want to understand the psychology of a man who thought Billy the puppet (even the prototype version) was a good doll design for an infant.
Just study the various communist movements throughout history.
@@Raycloud Jesus Christ you people cant leave politics out of anything
I'd love to see that.
@@mariahyohannes I think that his point makes a bit of sense. Communism under misguided action leads to extremely bad results. Communism could probably work if so many communist political leaders weren’t dumbasses, idealists, or dictators.
@@questionablelifechoices7501 ah, the old "but it was not REAL communism" argument made after every single communist system ever collapses...
Part of what makes him so amazing is Tobin Bell's portrayal. An amazing actor
His voice is cool as jigsaw but Hoffman and Amanda were terrible new additions
@@mrthanos8140 I didn't mind Amanda but Hoffman... Yikes....
@@FinnTheBee Amanda would’ve been a cool jigsaw for a few movies if they didn’t make her a psycho who just rigged the traps they could’ve kept her around a couple of movies but they made Hoffman look so smart which was annoying he outsmarted everyone always no matter what they made Amanda look dumb to because he set her up and she just died a failure to jigsaw who didn’t even give chances Atleast and an idiot to Hoffman who also doesn’t give chances really only a few times but rarely same thing basically it was dumb to have Hoffman be the villain so many movies when they could’ve made it more diverse they character assassinated Amanda and just made Hoffman there because there was no one else to do it. I really hope the next spiral movie is better to needs to show more gore like they scrapped a trap because it was to gory appearently but there was so much brutal stuff in saw idk how they say that the traps in spiral didn’t have that much gore like the camera was weird during trap scenes
I'd argue that's the only reason why the character is so great. If you actually pay attention to the writing of the Saw films, they kind of suck, but it's Tobin's insanely visceral and captivating performance that makes the material seem like a lot more than it really is.
I'd say the big issue with this is the assumption John just targets horrible people. John is seen to very regularly punish people who largely did nothing, or who are victims. One person is killed solely because they were cutting themselves. Another is kidnapped (and ultimately killed) for taking SSRI's. A prescribed medication. Another is put through a physically altering test for the crime of...being an abused wife. Detective Carrie doesn't even seem to have a real reason to have been in a trap except she was "too good at her job." Another solely because they wished to save others selflessly. One is burned alive for basically nothing except marrying a man she was not aware was living a lie. And yet another for...being lonely/an employee of a company John disliked. Many of John's victims are also victims of revenge. People who wronged him. And that starts from the beginning of his tests. Many of John's targets are people who personally offended or hurt him. Which just shows he uses his ideology at times or even breaks it, for acts of revenge.
And one of the worst things about this, is that he dies by his ideology, never once thinking that he had gone too far. Closest we ever got to him doubting his ideology or methods was when he saved one of his victims for suddenly thinking it was 'an honest mistake' in Jigsaw.
Just goes to show you he really is crazy
😅
😅😊😊
Yeah remmember the guy from Saw 3 who hit the main characters Kids with a car that mentaly broke it was an accident and yet he had not choice but to sit and wait for an exstream painful death all becouse the father was in to much mental pain to pull himself together to save him
In time
Would you be able to study Hannibal Lecter? I know he's a crazy complex character but he'd be fun to see analysis
I was going to post this exact comment
@@canismajoris9115 good to see others like old Hannibal
@@canismajoris9115 same lol
Especially the one from the TV Seasons!
You'd probably want to break it up into a multiseries
Jigsaw was the only reason to continue watching after SAW 4.
Tobin Bell just has that screen presence.
Hoffman as well, he’s badass
@@billding9820 Hoffman didn't deserve to be left to die in that bathroom, although I'm certain he'd escape the same way Eric did, because he may have murdered Jill but she tried to kill him. John wanted Hoffman to be tested but she didn't test him. He survived by being extremely badass. His payback was justified.
@@ridensroom6957 How would he have escaped? He was in the dark chained to a pipe. The only people shown to escape were Gordon and Eric, using the saw and toilet lid respectively, but both are seen to be missing from the room when Hoffman is trapped in the bathroom, meaning even if he could see, he wouldn’t be able to use anything to escape
@@ridensroom6957 Besides, his philosophy isn’t test sinners. It’s test people who don’t appreciate the lives they’ve been given.
The smoker and Amanda both engage in self-destructive behavior, Dr. Gordon doesn’t appreciate his family enough to not cheat, Jeff doesn’t appreciate the things he still has and instead focuses on vengeance while neglecting his living daughter, etc etc
Yeah I agree, his acting is fantastic, and plays the role perfectly. Unfortunately, I didn't feel the same way about the majority of other characters through the franchise.
One of the most hypocritical things about John is shown in a flashback in Saw V set during the events of the original film where him and Hoffman are watching Paul's razor wire test. Hoffman says "I didn't expect to feel any remorse" and John replies "The heart cannot be involved. Emotionally there can be nothing there. It can never be personal." Even though John testing Cecil for killing his son, testing Logan for mixing up the charts on his X-ray, testing Dr Gordon for being cold and uncaring towards him in the hospital where he got his cancer diagnosis and his test for William for denying him health insurance were all personal.
right
And testing Mitch for killing his nephew as well
On the surface level yes but he tested them all for other motives and the revenge was ulterior, Cecil for drug abuse and subsequent murder, Logan for negligence and not caring about the patients lives, Gordon for infidelity and not cherishing the life he has or of his patients, and William for choosing who lives or dies not cherishing their lives, those who don't appreciate life do not deserve living
John- "oh, oh yeah."
Ironically everyone you just mentioned got out of their traps alive (aside from William, but he wasn’t the one being tested) John even saved one of them. If it was personal, he would have given them much more difficult traps or let them die unfairly.
He’s the “road to hell is paved with good intentions” villains - he punishes people for not having the same love of life that he himself only got after that car crash and is not mandated to live on this world.
He’s the ultimate Twitter villain.
😂😂😂😂😂true
"Oh you wanna off yourself!? Too bad im gonna force you to torture yourself while i record it for my own pleasur-i mean to show you how to love your life!"
Looool true.
I can't help but picture a relative of one of his victims capturing him and putting him through traps just too see the hypocrisy and have the film end with him dying from a easy and simple trap. But you are right about him being a Twitter villain, self-rightousness and narcissism.
Twitter villain... that's a great comparison man. "I am literally nobody but you should die for not seeing the world like I do
I have a much more critical view of Jigsaw, the guy fails at his claimed objective of making people appreciate their lives and instead is completly blind to the fact is methods mostly leave a pile of corpse and instead the guy at best just make people that follow their own interpreation of his agenda.
Not to mention most of his victims made their own support group because of what they had to go through. Yah... totally okay Kramer.
Yeah, pretty much. I think the entire point is that he failed. I heard the "5 accomplices who stayed true to John's philosophy" line and thought to myself "Wait...we are talking about the Saw franchise, right? Because that is the exact opposite of what happened."
He believes he is God.
Redem10: I can actually agree with your points. He's incapable of being aligned with his own declared principle.
I have to agree on this, yes. As skilled as John is at strategy and manipulation, he doesn't always have all the information, which is for instance why he dies in the third movie. If he'd known about Amanda's role in his wife's miscarriage, she couldn't have been blackmailed by Hoffman to shoot Jeff's wife, and then Jeff wouldn't have had reason to kill John (or at least, there'd be time for one of them to explain the situation to him so he didn't finish off his wife by the heartbeat-to-shotgun-collar link).
Furthermore, John claims that if you understand people well enough, nothing happens by chance; this places him in the same hot seat as the abrahamic god, i.e. "God knows all and can do anything - So why does he make/let good people suffer?" Why does John plan and prepare tests that he knows will find the subjects lacking, even when those subjects are as innocent as the lied-to wife of the fraudster in the seventh movie?
No question that he is highly intelligent, clever and charismatic... but sadly, he still isn't as smart as he thinks he is. Either that, or his ideals don't mean jack to him... and frankly, I'd prefer him to be an overconfident idealist over an ingenious murderer.
Also, the disciples pretty much all fail to live up to his stated ideals, with Amanda and Hoffman both rigging traps to be unsurvivable, and the others failing to stop them before far too late.
I think there is one thing that he didn't neccesarily plan and that is how Amanda didn't follow his instructions and changed the traps by not giving a real possibility of survival.
He knew Amanda Would do that. That is why he tested her.
@@MrParkerman6 do what happened after that?
@@rasheemthebestfirstone3274 Saw III’s ending and her death
@ferret He knew about it, he just didn’t recruit her knowing she would do it.
How would he have planned her test without knowing about it?
"You either die a villain, or you live long enough to see yourself become the hero."
-John Kramer probably
Jay Z
Wtf 😕
-Harvey Dent (The Dark Knight)
It would be nice to visit one comment section without this cringe capeshit quote posted.
Just once.
@@cockoffgewgle4993 stfz
Amanda might have stopped taking drugs after surviving the reverse bear trap but the trauma led her to start cutting herself instead, she couldn't handle and felt guilt for the suffering of her and John's victims especially Adam who she suffocated to spare him a slow painful death from starvation and dehydration in the bathroom and realised that John's tests made her worse rather than helping her.
I don’t agree that John is just an anti-hero and not a villain.
Whether he targets people that “did something wrong” or not, it’s not up to him to pass on judgement like some sort of god. He’s a vigilante at best.
He’s doing it to “teach people a lesson” but all he’s doing is creating a pile of corpses, and mentally scarring and torturing his subjects.
They don’t have a “choice” to live or die. Some of them don’t even have a way out of the traps. The ones that do have to endure extreme amounts of pain and agony. Something most people would find very difficult to endure, and would fail, whether they want to live or not.
If you do survive these “games”, you are probably either disfigured for life, have extreme ptsd, are mentally scarred and traumatized for life, or will develop other mental disorders.
Not sure why people defend his actions or look up to him, but yeah. He’s evil and has a very warped ideology.
I agree with your assessment. However, if you understand that John Kramer chose to be the way that he is after having bad things happen to him. He "manipulated and recruited" true monsters to "help" in his quest to make people value life. His methods are by no means justified, no matter how you view it. His twisted philosophy enabled his followers to create traps with no escape on purpose. He manipulated Hoffman to go against Amanda on purpose. In John Kramer's mind, he is doing the right thing. He attracts people like Amanda and Hoffman to flock to him. It was not an accident that John did not tell her about his plans with the Husband and Wife. He did that on purpose and made sure that Amanda did not know about it. Most evil people never truly recognize in their mind that it is evil....or they just do not care anymore. John reached that point in his mental state. He recruited a rogue FBI agent, after all.
Exactly
Ok
"You are a smoker"
John was dead by SAW 4 his traps being unbeatable was not his doing in fact John would’ve never put someone in a unbeatable trap his whole philosophy was life or death make your choice in every trap you had a chance to live when you’re dealing with him but as far as Detective Hoffman goes you was screwed same with Amanda
I’d really like to see your take on Hannibal Lecter, Bill the Butcher from Gangs of New York and Rorschach from Watchmen
YES to Roeschach
Omg yes
Rorschach isn't evil tho
@@waltchamberlain5165 yes but he does do evil things, he may not be portrayed or think he's a villain but he's without a doubt a bit evil
IIRC he also targeted Zepp in the original film, who was nothing but kind to him.
"all of his victims are sinners themselves" his reasoning for taking one of his victims was "they're a smoker"
Jigsaw had cancer. He views it as a waste of health.
@@chrisricks6363 or the dude who called in sick to work.
@@anotherbigfootwithinternet2147 or zepp, who literally did nothing besides stand up for john cramer and even compliment him in the hospital when dr gordon decided to treat him poorly by acting like he was nothing more then a patient, when he was a person.
he was a terrible person, but still, my man zepp did literally nothing wrong and jigsaw still killed him by injecting him with poison, and the worst part is, i bet he had some cliche af note waiting for zepp when he would've finished (ie killing the mom and daughter), and then that would probably read something like
"hello zepp, i have injected you with chlamydia, please go back to work, i left you a cure and a syringe, however you must now live with the fact i forced you to kill two innocent people blah blah blah"
john never struck me as a smart kinda guy, hes booksmart, but excessively naive and outright sociopathic.
heck, even amanda, whos only crime was addiction, which isnt something as cut and dry as being a scummy husband like gordon,didnt deserve to have her own "torture test" , drug addiction is something that will change who you are forever, theres no normal life after your first hit of xanax/heroin/opium or basically any hard drug, it becomes a mental and physical burden that no drug addict ever wants, i would know, i grew up with someone who later became a fullblown heroin addict because of his parents passing away in an accident and basically being made homeless all in one week.
and then there was that guy who tried to off himself and got saved by medics, but jigsaw saw it as "lol you want attention for cutting? time for a barbed wire room!" which was beyond insulting to hear, since i myself have struggled with depression for many years and have resulted to attempts on my own life, it wasnt for attention. i just got some problems that im still sorting out to this day.
i wonder how jigsaw would feel if his wife ended up offing herself because she lost her baby in that robbery? something tels me he wouldnt be as gung-ho as he is with people he has no personal connection too.
@@notjimpickens7928 To be fair, Zep had an inferiority complex and is shown to be a sadist who enjoys finally being in charge when kidnapping Gordon’s family
@@crypt5129 true, but thats usually the kind of thing that only gets worse with circumstance, as im sure most regular people wouldnt handle it well, being forced to kidnap women and children tends to make even the most hardened individual take heed.
Something I notice about John Kramer; his style of murder is almost akin to the _contrapasso_ seen in Dante's Inferno. Choosing tortures symbolic of the sins his victims exhibited prior in their lives.
Like the seven deadly sins murders
So if I get put in a trap for being gluttonous does that mean he’ll unleash a three headed dog on me
Character study: Gollum/Smegol
@Rowan Melton that's why Smegol was included
@Rowan Melton well Smegol is directly abusive towards Gollum and would happily harm and kill people foe the ring. That kinda goes beyond stealing
@@thomastakesatollforthedark2231 I love how this entire comment chain somehow got it backwards that it's Gollum that's the good one. Smeagol is his name before he became Gollum. Gollum is who he became after he was corrupted by the ring. Aka, Gollum is the bad one, Smeagol is his original personality.
7:30 after hearing this I was like "yeah that's true"
Then realized that means he's like sitting there thinking "Yes I will make him gouge our his own eyes, and that will allow him to value his life."
Shouldn't he have like some standard test to give people rather than making it some weirdly brutal irony? Why not make them all have to pull a rod out of their body if that's what worked for him? Nope. One test you have to cut off your own foot. Another you just sit in a chair while your scalp gets ripped off just hoping someone will save you... lol
Jigsaw's motives get seriously muddled by his trap designs, especially in the later movies.
He makes traps where people are absolutely guaranteed to die, or traps where the victim died not because they lacked will to live, but just weren't smart enough to figure out the answer.
Tbf it was mainly Amanda who was responsible for the unbeatable traps, which I believe John finds out or Hoffman uses as blackmail. I can’t really remember
@@slaveownerkingpin1832 While that is true, I think this is more about the traps where people were guaranteed to die because not all of them were supposed to survive from the getgo, like the carousel or the lung crusher from Saw VI
The detective that joined him took over trap making later in the series. There's even a snapshot look back when he's making the trap and dumps the unconscious body on the floor and Tobin reprimands him because that's a human life. In the end of the films you see that he knew all along and was really testing those closest to him and the detective failed horribly when he killed jigsaws wife.
@@aprilmichel7816 The shotgun carousel wasn't him killing it was the insurance guy killing and it was demonstrating to him what he was doing when he chose which people would live and die. He didn't have to shoot anyone but he wouldn't have survived. Part of the human will to survive is the will to survive even if others must die. Harsh, but it fits into his worldview.
@@LiterallyWho1917 but that's not the point. he still made a trap where people had to die no matter what. the whole sixth movie is filled with people dying that did not deserve it. it's really unfair to the victims; like, yes, you could argue that the carousel people deserved it, but the janitor? the young guy that had to die so the older woman could live?
Like, I get the point he was making but how come they didn't get a chance to survive? Isn't it kind of hypocritical for Jigsaw to do this?
The video mostly portrays how John sees himself, in reality think of tests like the flammable jelly, the brazen bull, the shotgun collar, all the detectives and cops that were after him, the crushing ribs, the circle of silence, many people either didn't deserve it or they would've died of bleeding / internal organ failure before they could reach help/would've died of complications at the hospital, no matter the amount of willpower they had
While his apprentices mostly bestowed unfair games unto undeserving people, John himself became warped in his self righteousness rather quickly and started setting some utter BS as being fair and benefitial to the "test subject" or more accurately, victim
Killing is distasteful, unless you go through 10 stages of mental gymnastics and use a torture contraption to do it
Well said. He became the darksouls dev of serial killers right off the bat. He was also using people as props for others to decide their fate in traps like pig juicer, Amanda's test, etc
I see it as being unabashedly hypocritical. The idea that he has any sort of authority on the matter of life and death is also clearly self-righteous lunacy. What right does he have to play judge, jury, and executioner?
@@kylepessell1350 Not to mention that he literally doesn't give some people a fair chance. Like what about that wife character in Saw 3D who gets burned alive for something her husband did, that she had no part. Jigsaw literally set an innocent woman on fire to punish her guilty husband. What kind of logic is that?
Also, there's that guy from the first Saw movie who Amanda has to cut open to get a key. That guy had no fair chance at all either.
@@HOTD108_ the woman in Saw3d wasn't John's doing. He's long dead then. It was Hoffman.
Indeed. It's a bit concerning how many people take his psychopathy at face value.
The most ridiculous thing about the traps I found to be the time limits. They usually get a ridiculously short timespan, 60 seconds or so. Rendering most traps almost impossible.
The flammable jelly might be, subtly, the worst trap of them all. It leaves you with a choice of burning to death or slowly starving/dehydrating to death.
“Makes them appreciate life” thats a Nice way of saying “giving people Extreme soul-crushing PTSD that’ll leave them in constant pain and suffering for the rest of their lives”
I would recommend Ezra Miller's character in We Need To Talk About Kevin for this series. It's one of the best stories that rides the line between nature vs nurture.
Omg yes I want to see his analysis too
Good suggestion here. I can’t forget that scene after he’s done what he’s done (no spoiling) and his mother and he are just silently sitting in that room together.
@@sourgummyworms8069 That's the type of scene I've always wanted to see.
This!
Yesssssssss
Great video Vile! Loved it. Completely agree with your take on John's character! However, after viewing almost all of the Saw traps, there's a key point you missed - *not all* people he tested were heavy criminals. Some involved in the games weren't even guilty at all!
In the later films, quite a large amount of people were tested for RIDICULOUS reasons, such as for "being too helpful" and "smoking" while others were tested for murder, robbery and much, much heavier crimes.
This IMO makes John all the more frightening, as the deciding line of what people and actions he deems "worthy" of his traps can be very very thin. Thus possibly ANYONE could be tested by him.
Another point is that John doesn't necessarily follow his own rules either. He's mentioned he isn't a murderer, when in multiple traps he had put innocent friends/family of his victims along with them in their traps. Sometimes he even has those innocents KILLED in place of the actual victims as a result. (Ex: Bobby's final trap with his wife in Saw 7)
This goes against his own moral code and that's a small portion of what proves that John isn't as calculated as most think, and still makes great mistakes IMO.
*Apologies for the long read, but anyways keep up the vids Vile!*
After John died. Hoffman took over and possibly made them more brutal. And I think he set up Rigg’s game without John knowing so it can I interfere with Jeff’s game this killing his blackmailer and all seasoned law officials on the case. He did it using John’s MO so it wouldn’t come back to him. I think the films poorly explain that which makes it look like John tested someone to not open doors. No there’s more to it
Game Over *slams giant sliding door*
This is honestly one of the top interesting videos so far. The saw series is overdone but He was a character I did admittedly want to know more analyzing of. My next suggestion is Otis Broth from Otis
One of the most important aspects of jigsaw is that many of his victims don't get a chance at all. In the first movie alone, there was Lawrence Gordon's family, who weren't given a chance (but escaped anyway, so this is borderline). The man with the key in his stomach wasn't given a chance, he was restrained while Amanda killed him. Timothy Young wasn't given a chance, neither was the witness to the accident or the judge. They all relied on Jeff. Similarly, Lynn wasn't given a chance with one of the most unfair deaths in the series. Same for 3 out of 4 nazis, the Healthcare guy at the end, or the book guy's wife. None of them had a chance
My friends: He only kills bad people.
Me: He is... a murderer.
Sooo
@@Farquad76.547 mmmm yes
Because killing people for smoking is excusable
He never murdered anyone directly and always gave those people a chance, even the guy who caused his wife's miscarriage. What I can't understand is two implied children deaths because of the actions of their parents, like the guy who killed John.
@@prussianimperial8084 maybe he was pissy that day or just overreacted. You see, cancer patient and all
@@Farquad76.547 beware, the dark lord of edge has bestowed us with his internet. On ya bike joker 😂
_"His plans don't target anyone who isn't guilty of some sort of terrible sin"_
Is Joyce Dagen a joke to you?!
I think that because Bobby wasn't as much a threat to others as someone like the insurance guy, John may have merely put him on the list of targets, but not put too much thought into the traps themselves. It's because of this action that, after his death, John had left Bobby's fate up to his followers. Granted, he probably did have some design for traps, but not fully fleshed out as others. Since they didn't abide by John's rule of making the trap winnable, his followers were the ones to put Joyce in that situation.
@@betterlatethannever4529 Hoffman may have been the one who did the deed, but it was still John's voice in the recording, ergo it was still his plan.
@@realjoemavro actually we know, because of the Seth Baxter tape, that Hoffman is able to manipulate his voice recordings into sounding like John's.
@@betterlatethannever4529 i subscribe to this theory, also in the film Hoffman states that if they hand over Jill to him the game stops and nobody dies, but if they dont the game continues and 'everybody dies', therefore they were basically inescapable and all destined to die, by Hoffman's design.
I'd love it if you covered the....I'm not sure what to call it.... the 'Caretaker' from the Shining? It's an extremely interesting entity. It is intelligent, malevolent, and yet limited in many ways. I'd love to know more about it.
You earned a new subscriber, the amount of effort and attention to detail you put in your work is refreshing and I binged all your episodes at once, keep up the good work n I’m sure you’ll be at 100k in no time
requesting Anton Chigurh or Hannibal Lecter
Yes!
He already did Anton
@@redactedflinn6988 that comment was from before he did Anton
This channel really deserves more subs
I feel like in the next couple of months, the videos will start popping in peoples recommendations and he’s eventually gonna skyrocket. could happen, could not, but i hope it does because these are very interesting videos to lay down and watch
Hell get the subs soon. The videos sell themselves, as long as he keeps a good upload schedule and doesn't wane in quality, the subs will pour in eventually.
Absolute kino
In my eyes, John isn't just an anti-hero or a sadistic villian. He's basically an engineering prodigy but with a very twisted sense of justice
In a comment thread where people take very serious views to a movie they probably didn't even enjoy or understand and are willing to argue their points across the timespan of years, you, have offered one of the most intelligent, yet, lighthearted comments. Kudos!
6:55 As an actual doctor, I find funny that they combined images of x-rays and MRI into one exam 😂 I wished that actually existed
Leigh Whannell, who played Adam in the first Saw also wrote the story (along with many others in the franchise). He also wrote the Insidious movies (in which he plays Specs), The Mule, Upgrade and The Invisible Man as well as directing the latter two. Pretty talented guy all in all. Oh and he used to be in Neighbours!
I don't think I've seen the 1st SAW more than 3 times, but I remember it being amazing. I'll always remember the last scene. When John gets up after laying there pretending to be dead the ENTIRE TIME! I could not take my eyes off the screen. It was one thing to leave the guy down there, chained to the wall, but CUT OFF THE LIGHTS AND SHUT THE DOOR?!!!! OMG the horror and screaming of Adam as he was being locked down there forever. What an ending.
I'm very interested to see if the new Saw X film has changed or given you new perspective on John Kramer.
I and my partner LOVE your Analyzing Evil series!
I gotta say from what Im learning in abnormal psychology youre spot on man , the way you psycho - analyse each subject and the conclusions you reach are very similiar how we are taught too assess patients and the diagnosis we reach when dealing with personility disorders and mental illness in the more violent ones
When watching how he orchestrated the perfect test for each subject, I initially thought his backstory was of a former psychiatrist testing former patients or something based on their confessions, because he had them analyzed so well. Turned out he was an engineer that made all his own traps.
These are literally life lessons in our life
…..
Once we overcome situations
We get PTSD
is something that triggers us from certain trauma
But we learn from the past but get stuck with it
Also, I’ve always thought of John’s “cure” for people were just basically scaring the shit outta people to not do the same things that got them a screwed situation in the first place. Fear is never a cure..or is it?
Some people have a 180° turn in their lives when facing imminent death or when they can't escape from their own actions
@@Charles-A Speaking from my own experinces
Between 2016 - 2018 I went to high school, as a total loser, secretly a ROBLOX only Gamer, and with so much shame build up inside me. Socializing was always a difficult thing for me and I decided that new faces, would mean people who didn't know my past or hobbies, so I tried hanging with the cool kids and "shockingly" this went horrible wrong. I embarrassed myself day after day. Sometimes, it was so bad I didn't sleep for two days in a row. Then I started smoking pot with them, to show how much of an alpha I was, I was caught and my parents where deeply disappointed. I was over worked, didn't take that many baths, the teachers didn't give a flying fuck and I was left to my own. Because even if they did listen, I could not describe what was happening to me. I started drinking just to get some relief, but shame build up inside me, and I decided to hand any alcohol I had over to the teachers. I battled suicide everyday and almost lost it several times. Sometimes, I would go downtown at night, standing in front of train rails, or sit in my window, wondering if the fall would kill me.
The story dosen't end there, there's also an girl involved whom I really liked and couldn't shake off my head but it will make this post even longer. This all happened at once, between 16 - 17
In 2018 I got to another school, and i decided I wasn't even gonna try, I'm doing my own thing they are doing theirs. As a result I started appricating my parents, and those few who I deemed inferior around me. It made me appricate so much more about life like, drifferent cultures, labour, history, politics, the internet, movies, and so much more.
Kramer is right about one thing "You don't truely appricate life before you have faced death and hopelessness" Witch is why I'm so fasicanated by him
@@volks5965 just wanted to say, im really sorry to hear all that and we're all proud of your turn around; good for you :)
@@volks5965 nice man proud of you, the key in life is to think less of what people think and just live life.💯💪🏽 good job
*vsauce music plays*
Man I think you're videos are VERY well done and interesting. You've got a new subscriber my guy, keep it up!
Man October was your chance to shine. With all the e spooky content. This videos are too good to be uploaded so esporadicly
Really nice to see the Saw films being recognised for something beyond their goriness. Great exploration.
Would you consider doing Villanelle from Killing Eve?
i'd be interested in seeing a villain from children's media be analyzed, honestly. evil in stories aimed at children can be very black and white and underdeveloped, but some examples are very interesting and surprisingly nuanced.
Hopper is the best Disney villain IMO
@@TheBorwig valid. a lot of animated villains are really interesting. i havent seen bugs life in years, so i cant support your argument, but i definitely won't invalidate or deny it either. you do you. my favorite is professor ratigan from the great mouse detective.
@@insertcheesypunhere imma definitely have to back and check him out now. My friend and I had a long standing debate about if Joker or Magneto was the better villain too
@@TheBorwig valid. the great mouse detective is from disney's wild west era, pre the disney renaissance after the little mermaid. there's a *burlesque scene.* it's hysterical. also imo magneto wins, but that's as someone not deep into comics/superhero movies.
So intrigued, so absorbed, I thought this episode was longer than it was. I'd love to see another episode, for whatever reason, on this mystifying character that seems to have a distorted justification for his deeds, no matter how ironic, bizarre and twisted on the outside they appear. Thanks for the journey.
I think the fact that you can garner so much of the information from the character that you have has to do in large part to Tobin Bell's performance. Really an amazing actor in an understated way!
Awesome analysis of John Kramer, I appreciate your insight, thoroughly enjoyed watching this,I love the whole Saw series 😉😉😉
Absolute masterclass on breaking down someone's character.
Narrated with absolute linguistic mastery, I thoroughly enjoyed the intellectual commentary and pure orational talent of the man who composed this piece of artwork.
This is a fantastic video and I look forward to whatever else I see from you going forward. We will watch your career with great interest 🙏
Would love to see a study of Patrick Bateman from "American Psycho".
He’s done it
@@CCJ3 Much to my delight.
I've been waiting for this!
That's what she said!
I absolutely LOVE your video essays. Keep it up!
Beautiful summation, damn I love these videos
I think Light Yagami from Death Note would be a really interesting analysis
But... Is he fully Evil?
@@geronimozarza8495 yes. But he was evil for the greater good. He actually had a good impact on the world and crime basically vanished. Only at the cost of his sanity and disregard for the people close to him.
@@zeebooboo9663 he wasn't evil at all
@@RobertEdwinHouse9 At all?
While I may disagree on some aspects of this take, I greatly appreciate your efforts and willingness to accept the role of devil’s advocate. I’d hire you as an attorney in a heartbeat. You have a unique capacity to interpret the presentation of “bad” or “villainess” as much more complex, and are very gifted at encouraging unique, and often, unpopular, uncomfortable, but important thought and discussion. I think the writers of these pieces would be very intrigued and appreciate of your interpretation as well.
I’ve never thought much about Jigsaw as a human being, and I too had a hard time with the Saw series in its gore. The creativity of the torture made it difficult to see anything beyond just that. That being said, the older I get, the more I appreciate art that invokes that discomfort to call into question our inherent beliefs, and Saw is a perfect example. I no longer believe this series to be just ‘smut’ or overt horror, nor do I feel it’s even truly a horror film series. Contrarily, this series of films is disturbingly close to the realities of the world we inhabit. This may just be the first time a lot of people, myself included, have seen the ugliness we exist within in such a honest and up close format.
While I appreciate the complexity of John and his thoughtfulness in his... experiments, I struggle with his apparent “god complex.” John dictates his worldview onto many people who I find to be quite less guilty of abusing life - their own or others - out of what appears to be John’s *own lack* of knowledge and empathy about the complexity of humans other than himself. While he cases these people for months and thinks he knows enough about them to determine he must ‘save them,’ he can never possibly know enough to determine if any person is in need of his torturous, permanent destruction of their emotional and often physical being.
Amanda, despite becoming his accomplice on film, is perhaps the most unlikely survivor of all who would realistically return to the scene of this type of trauma (still suspending disbelief for sake of discussion, stay with me.) While she may have been in need of the *will* to live, she’s was likely not in need of any cathartic experience to find the *want* to live. A good amount, if not lost, of legitimate addicts (sober addict speaking here) will tell you, this is usually not something any of us wanted or want, nor do most of us need someone to show us what our fate *could* be. We see it, feel it and are reminded of it every single day we wake up. It is possibly one of the few things in life that can never be left in the past, even in sobriety. People generally do not take a drug for the first time thinking they will end up losing everything within a matter of years or even months. Often times, these addictions stem from injuries wherein a doctor trying to help accommodate your pain prescribes you a drug far more powerful than is needed, and perhaps unintentionally sets you on a path to the end of a ‘regular’ life, for the rest of your life, even if you manage to recover your sober state. You will never be the same, even decades after your last relapse. People who’ve experienced this, I would love to hear if you agree, or if you don’t and why. I’ve never met a fellow addict, sober or not, who wants this life. Perhaps we take time to want badly enough to quit, but to remain addicted is not what most people think - it’s truly not a choice. When you’re as deep in as it gets, you’re essentially powerless. Will power or a near-death experience is not the savior, at least not alone or for long. Support systems, medical oversight, years and years of professional help, time in homes that aren’t your own and have a strict set of rules, understanding and compassion, often more medication, and an unmeasurable amount of personal strength are the real way out. Even moving across the country is needed in many cases, if not farther. A potentially sociopathic man inflicting even more trauma than an addict likely already started with, has lived with and continues to live with forever, would be incredibly unlikely to be the saving grace here. Just my take as a sober addict.
John’s methods are sometimes misdirected by his own ignorance and failure to understand the human condition, which leads me to believe he may have sociopathic tendencies. The torture and “tests” are an entire different measure of his psychological disruption, but it is the *selection* of his victims that I actually find more troubling.
I do appreciate the role of John as an engineer. My husband is an engineer, and just like so many of his colleagues, it’s interesting to see how similar they are in the way they seem to have an inherent need to *solve everything.* The most brilliant engineers are those whose inescapable desire to fix spills into every aspect of their personal lives... this is beyond apparent in the most famous engineers, and I can attest to it in my husband’s case, as well as so many of those he works alongside. That aspect of the film was a brilliant touch and really drove home the reality of John as a human being, not simply and evil mad man.
I could go on and on about this film as I agree with you that it’s so well thought out and executed, but you did an amazing job and I just want to say how much I’ve enjoyed your work. Will look forward to your next, and thank you for what you do!
You dont need to be a sober addict to understand that jigsaws traps do more harm than good.
I mean there is nothing wrong with having a character like it but there is something wrong with defending his actions.
appreciate this comment
When did "take" become so ubiquitous? When did everyone start talking like American 15 year old girls? It's an *opinion*.
Cockoff Gewgle who the hell cares? there’s nothing wrong with calling a media based opinion a “take.” I’m not even sure if that’s a zoomer girl type word either.
@@funkyegg7270 It's a Yank word, which is bad enough.
Oh my gosh thank you for making this video! I have been getting so many replies on other saw comments saying John is nothing more than a killer an that I'm crazy an twisted for justifying his kills. When I watched an heard the opening of this. I felt like someone finally understood what I been saying so thank you so much for making this video!
Tell that to the people that was put it because they smoked, worked with the police as an informant, because he thought someone was using suicide to seek attention, for enjoying their work (and ultimately trying to catch Jigsaw), because they became suicidal after going through his test, for wanting to save everyone, for trying to solve the Jigsaw case, and for "letting" someone abuse you.
Yeah I feel like Jigsaw was pretty much only using excuses to kill those people.
Not all the victims were John's. So much so that he's dead for the majority of the movies and his apprentices are the ones setting ul traps. They did carry on some of his unfinished business, but not all traps were John's creation and some were even rigges by his apprentices without his knowledge. John's reasoning is obviously very flawed and probably just a way for him to rationalize his own desire to put people through such horrible events, but the actions of Jigsaw were as much dependent on his apprentices and their whims as they were dependent on him ultimately.
This is a fascinating character study
You are definitely an interesting guy, and you have a great voice for this!
Sick channel! Appreciate the work you put in
I think you put more thought into analyzing John Kramer as a character in this one short video than the writers put into actually writing him for the whole Saw series combined.
Jigsaw is such a terrifying villain to me *because* he's so sympathetic...and I realise that his manipulation has probably gotten into my head, too.
Your video has inspired me to re-watch the first Saw film again for the first time in a few years :) the later ones for sure deserve the label of 'torture porn' - fun to watch once for the creative traps, but no real value beyond that. But the first one...man, it still gives me chills!
Reminds me of Joe Goldberg .
They do not deserve that label cuz there is no porn in them.
I agree. I used to think his killing was justified until one day I rewatched all of his flashbacks and realized that he is a terrible person and he is a murderer who tries to justify it with his philosophy
Amazing as always! A banquet for thought
Brilliant content, thanks for the effort!
Love this stuff man! Keep up the great content! 👍👍
He got a lot more put on as it went but I don't necessarily consider him realistic. The story became so mangled with all the sequels that there is no way any one person could plan all that out.
Look into Light Yagami.
Loved the vid btw
Anime ewws
I've found your channel only a few hours ago and I'm already captivated by the content you're producing. I especially loved your videos on joker and jigsaw. I would love to see you do a video on jason voorhees.
Thank you for these awesome and interesting videos🍻
Video: “And can’t help but subscribe to his way of of thinking”
Me after watching a really well planned and Informative video on a character that I hate with every fibre of my being but respect and agree with the logic behind his actions: lmao yea
The franchise started off good with a great premise that quickly began to be lost as the franchise went on. It began by giving his victims the chance of redemption and so through their own choices they could survive his contraptions and the near death experiences would give them a new view on life to stop taking it for granted. The design of the contraptions also closely related to the sins that the victims had been committing. However, after the first few movies this was entirely lost, and there was really no way the victims could escape, which John had explicitly said as to why he was not a murderer in one of the first movies. Very disappointing the writers lost this important premise. The sins victims committed to be subjected to John's or his acolytes twisted contraptions also became ridiculous and not at all deserving, even in John's twisted mind. The 'games' John and his acolytes would put people through seemed to frequently become a competition where the victims all had to compete with one another to survive and it seemed like a requirement that all of them except 1 or 2 would die. The scenes with the creative contraptions seemed to just become there for the sake of having torture and gore with the reasoning for the victims being there in the first place as more of an after thought. When the victims were given more time to be fleshed out it was much more effective. This is why I see such a connection with just calling the franchise "torture porn" after the first few movies. It's a shame that such a promising franchise so quickly lost what made it great in the first place.
Just watched SAW X, which is very character-focused, and Vile Eye was so on point with his analysis even back then. Great job!
Honestly I think that John's message of the Will To Live is one of the most important lessons ever taught in cinematic writing, most critics would just say that the Saw films are simply cruel and sadistic which they are, but the more you think about the message that the film tries to set portrayal to of then you honestly have one of the most astounding pieces of footage you have ever seen with you're living eyes.
I think you could have talked more about Gordon. Who he tested against a drunk driver in the very first movie. I think the rest of them all stem from that and I view it as the first test, when he realized that it works and decided to continue on and Gordon joins him after cutting off his foot. Amanda is a good example but Gordon (I believe) actually is his most loyal accomplice.
I hope you can do an analyzing evil of Mark Hoffman. He's undoubtedly the second most dangerous villain in the Saw series.
Loved this character, thanks for the analysis.
I like the way you break shit down, informative as hell 🙌🏾
Honestly his philosophy doesn't matter all that much when you consider the fact that it's just an excuse to kill victims in brutal and creative ways. It gives him a sense of power.
He wants to test, not kill. He just doesn't care that his tests are insanely difficult and lethally dangerous, but they are fair.
@@vksasdgaming9472 They're not fair. People make so many excuses for his behavior I'm starting to wonder how much of the population are legit sociopaths.
@@TimSlee1 Fair in sense of being winnable. Only applies to Kramer, though.
@@vksasdgaming9472 Well in that case yeah, if you look at it from his warped perspective you're right.
@@TimSlee1 If game is winnable by design it is fair and John Kramer's games fill that criteria easily. Practically fair is completely different thing and they are not that.
Jigsaw / John Kramer is one of a few horror movie villains who are Lawful Evil.
Your breakdown is amazing
love this so much. jigsaw really is way more of an interesting killer than any other horror film has had to offer, that i know of anyway.
John Kramer is especially frightening for me personally. In his actions and thought process, I feel that this is a deep, dark hole that if I ever fell into....I would be no different than him.
Same
Still imagine that this is Kevin from Home alone after what happend to him the 2 Times without getting Mental Health help after those incidents. But their still torture porn^^
John is 52 at the time of his death in 2006 in the Saw timeline and Kevin is 8 in 1990 in Home Alone 1. There's no way John is Kevin.
@@supernerdageddon8036 I just imagined but fair point after all Sir.
Their?
@@derstrohmann7450 wait, how did you edit THAT comment but leave the first one fucked lol
Oh wow, subbed yesterday just in time for a new video today. It's a Halloween miracle!
This channel is amazing,great content.
It’s so sad that he’s so well written in such a botched opportunity of a movie series
ur pfp is so cute
@@CaptainJiggles11 Bruh
@StreetKid V or something idk I'm not a punk ?
Hell yeah I was going to suggest Jigsaw.
Edit: also as a suggestion maybe you could cover Alex Mercer from the Prototype series. I know its a videogame and he doesn't start out as a villain, but there's a lot to be said about his turn to becoming a genocidal monster.
Love theses videos. Please do more!!!
My favorite film series with my new favorite CZcamsr !
There are several villains I’m interested to see be analyzed:
1. Buffalo Bill (silence of the Lambs)
2. Thanos (MCU)
3. Norman Bates (Psycho)
4. Killmonger (black panther)
5. Darth Vader (Star Wars)
6. Freddy Kruger (Nightmare on Elm Street)
7. Pamela Voorhese (Friday the 13th)
8. Mama (Dredd)
9. Jason Voorhese (Friday the 13th films)
10. Benjamin Barker (Sweeney Todd)
Can I add a few more to the list
Esther (Orphan)
Jon Doe (Seven)
Alex Forrest (Fatal Attraction)
Alex DeLarge (A Clockwork Orange)
John isn’t an anti villain or anti hero. He’s a delusional villain who tries to justify what he’s doing based on his own unfortunate life circumstances like most villains do. He’s a serial killer, most of his traps aren’t beatable and even if they are it’s damn near a 1/10 chance a person who is in panic is going to figure out how to solve.
Wooow your channel is literally one if the best items I have landed on today 🏆💕👌Nice work nice content you have made my day
Awesome video gone on your list and see you've done some of my star wars characters too. Definitely subscribed
John is the physical embodiment of The Angel of Death.
Would love to see:
Chigurh from No Country for Old Men
Catherine Tremell from Basic Instinct
The Hannibal Lecter movies
Dont forget “HIM”
And I asked about Chigur too! He said he’s on the list! 🤙🏾🤙🏾
Judge Holden too
I just watched Basic Instinct great movie
"Catherine Tremell from Basic Instinct" yes please
@@StormCrow702 that would be an incredible analysis, I’ve never seen a character so purely evil be so utterly fascinating. I would also love to see a video on Sauron, I love him
Pretty good. I'm digging this series. I kinda feel like John Kramer should've gotten another 15 mins here, but still good nonetheless.
The very type of malignant narcissist with a God complex who feels he should be the judge, jury and executioner of people's lives. He is the personification of evil itself.