Matt Ridley: The Covid lab leak and the corruption of science
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
- Matt Ridley - science writer and co-author of Viral: The Search for the Origin of Covid-19 - returned to The Brendan O’Neill Show for this special live episode. Matt and Brendan discussed censorship in science, the folly of lockdown and the misplaced hysteria over climate change.
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The 'Conspiracy Theorists ' Knew this 4 years ago .
It was weeks till I found out that Wuhan is a leading centre for human virus research. I knew about Wuhan's wet market, couldn't help but know about the wet market, it was all the media went on about.
That the most interesting point about Wuhan was edited out of all the reports into the ground zero of Covid19, sounds like a vast conspiracy to me.
Uh oh. Now I'm at risk of becoming a tin foil hatted conspiracy theorist!
Must wash myself clean of these far right, evil thoughts. Must expunge my mind of all relevant evidence.
We need to change our brand.
Conspiracy investigators?
Debunker Debunkers? 😂
A lot longer than that! In the 90’s they were talking about agenda 21.
Who'd trust anything Communist China claims or says?
I thought all this was general knowledge by now. I remember in April 2020 watching Chris Martenson on YT channel "Peak Progress" revealing all of this evidence.
He eventually left You Tube in exasperation, after having to hold up signs with words written on them so his videos wouldn't get taken down.
Epidemics of cancer and heart disease now in full swing. An unprecented scandal.
Doctors remain baffled
Of course it leaked from the lab, the idea it jumped to us right next door to a coronavirus research lab is palpably absurd.
Who was the American comedian who joked
"Where did all this ice-cream that's polluting the rivers come from?"
"I think a bat and a pangolin had sex and that caused it some how"
"Who are you?"
"The owner of that huge ice-cream factory, next to the river."
This is common knowledge to anyone who were paying attention in 2020. And it's another win for so called conspiracy theorists.
If there were no such things as conspiracies, we wouldn't have a word for it.
Had Nixon been luckier, the Watergate scandal could have been known as a conspiracy theory.
No it isn't. Not a CT!! The Lab Leak theory was always plausible, although it remains less likely than a more organic origin. We may never know!!
No, it wasn’t common knowledge at the start. It was a common reasonable hypothesis. Then more and more evidence started to accumulate.
@@kevinmcfarlane2752 Absolute nonsense. You just werent paying attention to the diamond princess cruise ship data which was the perfect petri dish.
Good to listen to someone that properly knows the science.
I vaguely recall in Jan/Feb 2020 on the radio, hearing that there was a trillion dollars wiped off value World stock market due to the Pandemic and wondering what would be so bad to cause that
The BBC should be forced to broadcast this interview.
These are certainly sad times when it comes to science and humanity as well.
I have really enjoyed this informative interview with Matt Ridley. What an incredible man and so down to earth. I take my hat off to you Sir.
To talk about it would demonstrate and admit to legal liability.
That is why you have a 'conspiracy of silence'.
That is why any debate during this facade was also shutdown as 'conspiracy theories'.
Their subseqeunct actions are the most damning.
Like changing the algorythms for calculating the alarming rise in excess deaths, among many others.
Some one mention my name?
I want my nobel prize!!
It is so refreshing not to say unusual to listen to a highly informative and reasoned discussion between two educated intelligent and scientifically literate individuals. Thank you very much indeed Matt Ridley.
Refusal to discuss an issue is a confession of wrongdoing. The greater the resistance, the greater the wrongdoing.
Very refreshing discussion. After 40 years working in physical science, I am so sad to see the sciences descend back into overt and unrelenting dogmatism. However, I am aware that history is replete with examples of idea suppression. Consequently, many new technologies are delayed by decades. I worked in a lab that tried to get funding for an idea that was contrary to the existing theory. Unfortunately, one of champions of the rival theory was able to thwart our efforts because he had a powerful voice. I think it was Max Planck to quipped that science advances one funeral at a time.
Why is Peter Daszak never ever questioned?
Because he's protected by a very powerful establishment. He's still getting funding from the US public health function.
Public testimony May 1st. One of the most shameless and manipulative figures in this whole sorry saga.
The berg of Nurem is long past due.
Talk to Professor Richard Lindzen he will help you understand there is no need to be concerned about Climate Change. Carbon dioxide emissions don’t drive climate. Great discussion.
I've heard so much about this so many times before - but now it's v valuable to get an update. I'm further glad to note there are people of some weight and clout who won't give into to the presumed norms of both covid and net-zero - the world needs you !
Things will not improve until we have Nuremberg 2.0 and long prison sentences handed down.
Many multi-life sentences are warranted due to the huge death toll and injury suffered for the sake of profit.
You know that will never happen.
To be governed is to be at every operation, at every transaction, noted, registered, counted,
taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, licensed, authorized, admonished,
prevented, reformed, corrected, punished, commanded, by creatures who have
neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so.
Pierre-Joseph Proudhon (1809-1865)
Someone raise my name?
I want my nobel prize!!!!!
*_NO JAIL TIME_*_ means _*_NO ACCOUNTABILITY!!_*
Thank God for people like Matt Ridley - good man!
One of the biggest scams in history.
Thank you very much for covering this very important topic. Great interview.
Thank you. Brilliant discussion.
Matt is broad enough and sufficiently specialist to make sense of something complex: a rarity in our siloed scientific culture.
This guy is talking so much sense and following the science of all I have found out. It’s all out there if you research it.
It says 4 comments at the time of my watching this video, yet only one is visible. CZcams busily censoring again I see.
They are trying hard. But things are getting out the ordinary person is getting informed in-spite of their efforts
If you Click the "Sort by" and select "Newest first", more comments show up. It's weird, but works.
you will eat bugs
Nothing can keep the genie in the bottle
@@Mum2cutiesdesinger receptors exclusively activated by desinger drugs...aka dreadds .....
noninvasive neuro modulation optogenetics chemogenetic crispr cas9 look it up
DARPA. DOD .Eco Health Alliance . Anthony Fauci. Etc
To name but a few ...
Humans have adapted to ice ages, the drying up of the Sahara, lowering and rising sea levels…….given the freedom to pursue solutions, humans will adapt.
The bad news is that ordinary people don't want to talk about it. They want to forget it would seem.The good news is that if / when it happens again I don't think they'll be as passive and accepting I believe. I hope!!
Great conversation! To not forget the great injustice we have suffered.
Chyna. Chyna. We knew this a while ago.
Because it’s from Chyna!
Anthony Fauci paid for it, so it was in Chyna, by AhMurka
yeah Chyna in Ukraine
@@andrewritchie5731 Who knows. Truth is Stranger than fiction.
The china centric WHO covered this up
It’s not a concern about whacky zaney people in laboratories @ 24:37. It’s concern about exactly what was mentioned prior about publishing what was not their true conclusion, which yes, means you can’t trust what is spouted as ‘the science’. Science itself is fine. With bought scientists, the science becomes irrelevant. And then can you blame people for not trusting scientists, medical establishment, politicians, etc?
Yet we still flock to the pharmacy for our meds supplying their addiction for money.
I dont
Excellent interview.
Excellent discussion. Thank you.
The observations about science and broader academia at around 34' and the question asked at around 58'47" reveal a lot about various models of the world that are being pushed as settled fact - whether scientific, philosophical or sociological. The ethereal models and theories are pushed as 'reality' rather than interpretations of the world that suit various funding models. Some sort of radical reworking of academic funding is needed to take the blinkers off.
I saw the raw fear on the face of the Chinese scientist from the lab who managed to get out a message on CZcams. He was dead a week later and the incident was expunged from the record. My God, what is happening?
Being a thick commoner I look at things with a simplistic view.
Can you take out a patent on something that occurs naturally? No!
Is there a patent for covid? Yes!
Bingo
Good point.
I wasn’t just developed in a lab it was also released on purpose.
Watch Dr Martin’s testimony to the European Parliament it’s so obvious
Very unlikely. The effects would be too hard to control, and almost nobody benefits from it. When you get people to drill down on WHY they think someone would benefit from releasing a pandemic virus, their attempted explanations are usually feeble and make no sense.
This was an accident, born of hubris, and covered up subsequently.
Agree, it seems obvious to me.
for phama profits
Jeremy Farrar of the Welcome Institute always struck me as wholly untrustworthy.
I thought everyone new it came from a lab
It was a Lab Leak. No other descriptors necessary.
And no mention of the safe and effective elephant in the room?
Thank you both for your honesty and information, keep up the good work, people are slowly waking up to all the lies and deceit we have been told. It's time for common sense, is there anyone left with that.
Andersen, Holmes, Rambaut... were prompted by Fauci to write Proximal Origin.
Good analogy. These days if you told people to get chemotherapy to cure a cold, they'd be screaming for it.
Bio weapon for sure
Wonderful... Thank you Gentlemen 🙏🏻🙏🏻
Dude, I thought lableak was the most reasonable assumption for a while, and we gotta stop gain-uh-function research.
Already stopped. Evolved to: ePPP: enhanced Potential Pandemic Pathogen
NIH scrubs GOF and its definition ... page from its website!
(after October 19 ??2021..)
Yes, but what we get with these kinds of stories (that the mainstream dismisses as mis- or disinformation) is more and more receipts over time.
What puzzles me is when you compare the Covid-19 pandemic to the SARS-2003 outbreak. All the local, regional and international disease surveillance bodies sprang into action in 2003 and really nailed that outbreak. This begs the question what happened in 2019?
We certainly didn't follow the pandemic "plan" that was put in place to respond to this very scenario. Chucked it right out the window
The Guardian (I think) published an article about that - saying the WHO had become much less competent since 2003, and international co-ordination had weakened. They were ticking boxes but not doing the real work.
And the fact that basically all Western countries failed to follow their pre-defined pandemic plans in the same disastrous way. All following the same "spontaneous" plan that was at its core based on military grade fear based propaganda.
SARS-2003 had very different characteristics that made it easier to contain. Sars-cov-2 was called a novel virus for good reason.
I just watched Jim Jordan and rand Paul question a certain doc with unbblanked documents (finally) and that pretty much is enough evidence beyond stepping across the threshold of the wu Han lab doorway
Eco alliance...peter danske...
..start there that's where it all started from
Daszak
It's not a fucking accident. These people are years behind, come on.
The people are paying higher energy bills. Meanwhile, the energy companies are making record profits....
People are paying for expensive telephones,Apple is earning billions.
Louis Vuitton is doing pretty well too. Those rich bas*ards.
Long live Mao.
P.S. Hillary Clinton is now worth 250 million $,Haiti (her pet project) is collapsing.
Obama has properties worth 25 million,Bernie Sanders too.
But it's those evil companies...?
People are dieing,weapons companies are getting rich.
Pfizer earned 100 billion on the unsafe and ineffectieve product.
Hillary is now worth 250 million.
Shure honey,that's the problem.
The rational optimist is the best book ive ever read
There are also serious questions to be asked about biowarfare research which is clearly surreptitiously taking place
You tube .....what a totally unbiased platform????????????
The position of Western governments seems to be "As we cannot conclusively prove that the SARS-CoV2 virus definitely came from the Wuhan Insitute of Virology, it isn't worth making a fuss about it. In any case, we have become so dependent on Trade with China, that it isn't worth upsetting the Chinese over something that has already happened and cannot be changed. We have nothing to gain and too much to lose in terms our diplomatic relations with the Chinese government."
And we have a winner. Couldnt have said it better myself.
That explains the compliance. I’m sure Pharma wants this narrative but I don’t think Pharma alone could get such robust of a narrative across every Western government of different political persuasions.
That and TDS.
i was looking forward to listening to matt ridleys views on the controversial mrna vaccines for covid 19 but was disappointed
All labs should be closed. AMEN
Where can I get one of these cushions 7:51
Yes! I need this
Self-styled ‘rational optimist’, Matt Ridley, was the Chairman of Northern Rock when it collapsed. If he says something was an overreaction, chances are it was perfectly proportional; if he says don’t panic, panic!
Lets hope that our Gain of Function experts make a new and better virus and save the planet.
NEVER FORGET/They Live.
For an excellent and growing list of climate sceptical interviews, you really can't go past Tom Nelson's CZcams channel.
There are hundreds of long form interviews and presentations from various angles where you can look at the side of the discussion that is deliberately ignored by the establishment media.
Higher CO2 is a blessing, it greens the planet.
CO2 level was too low for opyimal plant growth.
Its still low, but its getting better.
What's the opposite of climate change ? The climate always changes and it's over millennia not decades....
Mmm climate can change quickly. 11 thousand years ago at the start of the Holocene the climate shifted from glacial to mass melting in decades.
@@RichardEnglander and we are still all here, the planet has been much hotter and much colder, i could have said generally over millenia but of course evnets can happen. A few large volcanic explosions could change things very quickly .....however the arrogance of humans to think they can control the climate is a fools errand
@@RichardEnglanderWho was driving all the cars then to cause that 😂😂😂?
The climate changes over millennia, it also changes over decades and none of these changes are caused by CO2. Natural changes in CO2 are caused by changes in ocean temperature, as per Henry's Law. These changes in CO2 follow changes in temperature (by ~700 years on longer time scales).
On shorter time scales, a significant driver of climate variability is ocean current oscillations (AMO/PDO) with a period of 60-80 years. It's no coincidence that the "Ice Age Cometh" scare off the late '70s and the peak of "Global Warming" were about 35 years apart (the period from nadir to zenith of that major cycle). It will likely get cooler leading in to the 2030s.
@@Gumbatron01If it cools in the 2030’s the Nett Zero zealots will inevitably claim the credit
Brendon was very doggy on this subject of the last years . This was not an accident! Censorship is always deliberate!
He couldn't quite bring himself to state the inoculations is what's brining on the heart and other issues though, could he?!!
I am hesitant to comment on this subject as the moderator may take umbrage with my views. Am I self censoring or…..
Cell lines came from USA
I can’t help thinking that the politicisation and central control of our institutions by Blair-Brown nearly 30 years ago has now arrived in its full horror…..
Always interesting and informative to hear from Matt Ridley. On the Lab Leak I would like to have heard him explain why it is an important question for formulating responses to the SARS-CoV-2 outbreak. Would an immediate answer to the question have made any difference to how countries should have responded? I suspect that Brendan O'Neill didn't ask because the answer would probably have been that because the genome was so quickly analysed, defined and published, it would have made very little difference. Perhaps a speedy admission by the Chinese authorties would have included release of that information a week or two earlier but would that have been significant given that its epidemiology and effects on the human body would still have been unknown. I remember an article by Matt Ridley expressing his astonishment at how quickly the genome was defined so he might well have said that in practice the quick admission of a leak would have made little difference.
Yes. it seems more important to get answers so we can prepare for the next one. Eg. If we are still engineering viruses it might mean the frequency and severity of viral outbreaks will increase. Also, as an individual, it affects the level of trust I can put in politicians, science and public discourse, which will affect my personal actions next time
@@celiacresswell6909 It is true that the effectiveness of restrictions depends greatly on compliance. So trust is important. I suspect, although I have not seen any analysis of it that compliance was quite low. Evidence from Australia shows that it takes only one family breaching quarantiine, or a car with five passnegers crossing state borders, or a removal van, (all acual incidents) to set off an entire wave. The awkward thing is that restrictions (NPIs) need close to 100% compliance to work, but the virus needs only 1% non-compliance to run riot. It is disappointing that it seems that the Covid Enquiry does not intend to make any comparisons between the UK and other countries. I don't see how else it can derive any useful conclusions or lessons to help the UK perform better next time. It was certanly dismal this time.
I noticed also that Brendan didn't pick up on Matt Ridley's statement that the Safety Level for the gain of function research was only level 2. Clearly either it should have been higher or the safety regs were not applied properly or were breached. What usually happens is tighter enforcement or tightening up of the rules. That should have been demanded of China but it doesn't alter the required response to contain the virus in the UK and elsewhere.
It SHOULD make a difference in terms of stopping gain-of-function research, but won't. If the WHO, Bill Gates and others really want to prevent the next pandemic they would publicise and stop gain-of-funtion research.
What I’ve not seen anyone discuss is that the pathogenic and demographic profile of the disease was laid out almost immediately by the Chinese. Disproportionately dangerous to the old and those with comorbidities and pretty harmless to kids.
Now how did they know this so quickly?
When We Tried To Tell You, You Called Us Names.
100,000 wet markets and it starts near a bat corona virus centre
Day 1 I said nope, its poison. No regrets.
Former nurse who said the same....
JJ Couyy. Dennis Rancourt.
Ferrets have one of the closest immune type to humans.
UK has roughly 500000 (half million) Ferrets.
Ferrets spread influenza to humans.
Not a single case of 1 Ferret contracting, spreading or dying of Sars Cov2.
Which animal has been chosen to test model CV19 vaccines on?
The Ferret.
It's already been explained to you, but you obviously didn't understand. You are just showing your ignorance or subintelligence.
Occam's Razor suggests it probably came from the lab.
How can there be any question? It was *malicious.* The furin cleavage site settles it.
He was also, as he DOES admit, among those who thought the Covid leak theory was absurd. His about-face on that is a precisely the thing he dislikes in others.
I was so angry with the Chinese for their obfuscation until i heard that our very own NIH helped fund this. Now I'm just disgusted. As to the reason for the leak, I have to fall back on what we knew about the old USSR practices. In a communist system, corruption is rife. Isn't it possible that the virus leaked because some of the funds for the maintenance of the building was stolen? Anyone ever replace a HEPA filter? They're brutally expensive, even for a home style air scrubber. Now imagine you're the honcho for the Wuhan district and your 5th mistress wants another house. You look at the outflows of money for the lab and you get greedy. Would you sacrifice sacrifice personnel? Yes. Would you sacrifice maintenance costs? Absolutely. My guess is that the cost of the materiel for the maintenance of this lab is huge. I think this is the source of the loss. The classification of the lab was reduced from level 4 to level 2 (I'm not sure about the terminology here). The whole things smacks of poor safety controls. The final thing is that there is a degree of anthropomorphism. We expect that the attention to safety is the same in China as it is in the west. This is not true. This is the same country who supervised a massive famine in the 60s. They don't value human life like the west does. I think that's the appropriate starting point.
Why are we so frightened to move to the real and likely possibility that this was not an accident but released deliberately and spread systematically? Having discovered the body smashed on the ground do we not necessarily ask ourselves, "Did he fall or was he pushed?" Do we seriously believe that others are not capable of such a degree of evil? What was the Holocaust if not proof that evil knows no boundaries? We may ask why, but does this matter? I can imagine many reasons why, but I don't need to know the full motivations involved or understand them to know that the victim was pushed. He either was pushed or he was not? The act was either covered up or it was not?
We need to differentiate between knowing in our hearts and mind that something is the case, and being able to prove this in a court of law. Something can be true without needing to go through such a process. We do not select our God, partners, or presidents by a unanimous court decision before a judge and jury.
I have no idea what percentage of the people of this world believe that this was a tragic accident, the worst case of corporate and government incompetence in history, or the greatest crime against humanity from beginning to end until the next one? To be honest, I don't care to know either. If people wish to live out their short sentences in a constant state of denial that is their choice.
I have no idea what others believe, but I long since made my mind up on the subject. To me at least this was obvious after no more than a couple of weeks and everything that happened since has only further and strongly confirmed my original conclusion.
If you seriously believe that something like this could not be organized in such detail because it would require far too many people to act in silence please think again. This would require no more than half a dozen people who really know the score. It is perfectly possible that even Dr Tony Fauchi and Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, knew very little about this until they could do nothing about it other than what they did. What would you do if you found yourself in their situation? Lie, lie, and lie again to save your own skin especially if you had been told that doing so would indeed save it, that is what YOU would do, and you know it.
You seem to like the phrase "I have no idea", having used it twice. I believe you!
Weren't Spike pushing the clotshot? Mmm.
Ah so he is pro-GMO and he relates criticism of this manipulation with an attack on "science". There are many serious issues with GMO processes and products and the general impact on health is unknown.
I am so surprised people are so gullible
QED
Imagine being so credulous as to believe pangolin fairy tales when the lab was right next door.
Got to chuckle that the main author of a fake science paper, which is now known to be pure fairytale... Is called Christian Anderson... 😂😂 Thank you! Please give me a big Hans...
the end game is children, let's say under 15 years of age
Just to clarify, while we’ve not seen a furin cleavage site in a sabrecoronavirus, they are a feature of other beta coronaviruses, most famously in MERS. Furin cleavage sites do not magically make viruses more infectious. The main reason is likely because while the cleavage does pre-prime the virus for fusion prior to it leaving the infected cell, the spike protein is then far more entropically disfavored. This is why the scientific community has studied these sites so hard; we see furin cleavage sites but it’s not clear if they truly provide the virus with an advantage. For SARS CoV2 the furin cleavage site was not well optimized because it was out of frame. This is why it was initially viewed as being inconsistent with evolutionary theory because the furin cleavage site was out of frame and we’ve alway believed that out of frame expression is disfavored. The virus has sorted that out over the last 4 years by actually moving the furin cleavage site to being in-frame. So there still remains zero evidence that this thing was engineered. There is no sign of lab adaptation in a cell line (we still need that; we cannot de novo synthesis a virus; we need expression in a cell line of some kind). So there is zero experimental evidence that the virus is engineered. The only way this things comes from a lab is if it was a sample that had been collected and somehow infected somebody. That remains possible. While Mr Ridley discounts the wet market, that’s still far and away the away the more likely source. Because this has happened before and these wet markets have always been a source when they are filled with wild animals (ever wondered by a seafood market was selling illegal animals and the Chinese wanted to cover that up). We also know we have 2 clades of the virus which is very very hard to explain with a lab leak. Not impossible. We can never discount the lab leak until the Chinese are more transparent ( no chance in my view) but the wet market continues to be the more likely source. And this will happen again as long as the wet market selling wild animals continues. You claim ascertainment bias with respect to the wet market, but the same is also the same of your comments around the lab,. You provide circumstantial evidence and the comment that the outbreak happened in the same city as the lab. That too has the same bias.
This is not clarification. You can't even spell furan correctly! If you're not a machine I recommend lessons in both elementary English & maths, as you don't seem to understand basic logic or probability.
@@user-tg6zi4kp1d Furan is a five membered heterocyclic. Furin is a protease. I’m not sure what your point is beyond that.
My apologies Keith. Thanks for updating an old biochemist. I had seen "furin" earlier written as "furan" & assumed it was the 5 membered ring with Oxygen, & not the macromolecule protease as I now know it to be. Sorry!
Brendon looks rather puffy and tired. I suggest he gets his thyroxin levels tested.
surely you're not suggesting that the WUHAN virus came from the WUHAN laboratory of virology?
😮
Really wonderful re the Covid topic. I’m less impressed by the climate change conversation. This seems to be uncharted territory for our species, with far reaching repercussions for our & future generations to come. That’s a big ethical dilemma. Climate change is already causing mass insect die-offs, etc. Given the interconnected, global repercussions of the problem of cc, comparing it to ‘a cold’ seems as problematic as shutting down debate on covid. The data is the data & in both cases they’re alarming!
Why would the planet getting warmer kill insects? Have you been to seriously hot countries? Australia is bad enough!
CO2 has been proven to increase crop yields and greening. Why would that science be ignored in the conversation? It needs to be discussed, not dismissed. Insects are killed by pesticides....our soil is being depleted of nutrient-providing microorganisms by pesticides. There's much more to the biosphere than just 1 gas in the atmosphere.
Check out cofounder of Greenpeace, Patrick Moore's lecture on Climate given to the "Steamboat Institution" which should allay half your worries.
Wolverhampton, what a joke of an argument.
No no, you are misinformation.
Ridley is as disingenuous as those he criticizes. He fails to acknowledge his own about-face on climate change. His denial of it for years contributed a great deal to stalling the sort of reasoned approach to addressing it he pretends to champion. He seems much better at ridiculing others' ideas than proposing solutions. He is also wrong about storms being less severe than before. He is awfully good at twisting data to make himself sound clever. We DO have a climate "crisis" and "emergency." Human population has declined for the first time ever since we showed up on the planet. This is in part due to climate change (and other forms of environmental pollution including the manmade chemicals in our food and products). The "preaching of doom" he laments is counter-productive only because it make people behave as Ridley wishes they would. The feel there's no point is doing anything. Humans are facing our own "manmade" extinction.
Bonnie Blodgett is clearly delusional!
ininternational miltary games whuhan. the super speader event. learnt from ww1when. the troupssread spanishflu