Does LOKI Mean Marvel is Doomed to Fan Fatigue? - MCU Experts Explain!
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- čas přidán 9. 10. 2023
- Loki's low premiere numbers are shocking--and do they prove that the MCU has lost its fanbase for good? Get your Loki-inspired merch by supporting our MERCH STORE Here → screencrushmerch.com/
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#loki #MCU #ReignOfMarvelStudios - Krátké a kreslené filmy
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Ryan Aery's Mom has worn me down
I personally think streaming shows makes it somewhat difficult for a lot of working people to follow shows, compared to having episodes released on the same day at the same time weekly. And I think it’s difficult for studios to gage interest in the shows they put out until it is too late.
Mephistogate
Keep the faith surely they need to see what people want.
Look at McDonald’s villans
Grimace=Thanos
Cosmc=Casey
The Griddler=He who remains
Uncle OGrimacy= OB
The professor =Victor Timly
Hamburgler = judge gramble
Captain crook= judge Dox
Ronald=mobius?
Mac tonight=x-5,zaniac
Iam hungry/happy= miss minutes
I dont think there is fatigue for the genre, I think there is fatigue in the lack of quality storytelling.
i agree with eric voss :]
Agreed
I wouldn’t call that fatigue I would call that common sense
Lol. Wow hot take. You just echoed what the CZcams guy said in the first minute.
Zero risks and it's the same story for the past 20 films.
It's not just Marvel fatigue, it's also the fact that the cost of Disney+ has doubled in 2 years. It's hard to justify paying that if the quality on the shows keeps going down.
Inflation problems
I started mine for free after buying something apple. They sent me a notice that the price was increasing. I had to think of the last thing I cared to watch and ended up writing the cancellation date on my fridge.
This. I feel that a lot of people are under-estimating the cost of living issue, either with just having to pay for a Disney+ subscription at all or just having the time and energy to even devote time to watching the show.
We're in a very different era to what things were like with WandaVision and the first season of Loki.
I just pirate everything at this point
@@lomiificationthat consumer shouldn’t be accountable for that. We paying for more for everything already. There’s no excuse for them to not take out quality if they gonna charge more. Disney is rich af
For my part, I am getting a little worn out by the lackluster storytelling lately, but Loki is one of those shows I’ve really been looking forward to. The first season was fantastic and I love these characters. But I think the show needed a week or two of separation from Ahsoka. I was still digesting that finale and checking out reactions and breakdowns and such and just kinda forgot that Loki was coming out on Thursday, so I ended up waiting until Saturday night to finally watch it. Premiering 2 days after the Ahsoka finale was just too soon.
Yes, I agree with you.
I hadn't really considered the two day gap, but you're right. Kind of dumb too, when we can go weeks without anything.
agree! It was a shock for me that it had come out even
give us an example of lackluster storytelling -- cause I honestly don't believe you -
@@MyCapMyEverything star wars and marvel are two different storylines; coming out 2 days apart has no impact on anything - there is no evidence 'fans' are fatigued; random people making comments on the internet doesn't make those people 'fans'
We are forgetting that Loki benefited from the pandemic. It came out right after everything shut down and there were very limited amounts of entertainment available outside of streaming. I know a bunch of people that watched during the pandemic that could care less about marvel or Star Wars now that everything is back closer to normal standards. Lots of sports fans were starving for content at the time of season 1 and had plenty of free time to watch along with regular viewers. Large chunks of people were out of work or working from home with the ability to watch whatever they wanted and a limited amount of options.
Doesn't change the fact that Loki series is fucking good and a absolute success
@@Cestariarts never said it wasn’t? If you didn’t watch the actual video, it starts with them trying to explain why the shows and their breakdowns don’t get as many views as season 1 without ever mentioning the obvious boost in numbers the shows and breakdowns for said shows got due to the pandemic as I stated.
@@Cestariarts I love the Loki series. Favorite thing on Disney+
I don’t understand why nobody acknowledges this when analyzing the “downfall” of anything that was a hit in 2020.
Loki premiered in June 2021. Well after shutdowns and reopening….
I’m not fatigued by the MCU as long as it's a good show or movie. It's just that Disney has been doing some bad writing with most of its movies and shows and it's causing their customers to leave. And the fact that the cost of Disney+ keeps going up isn't helping them.
No one cares
@@davida12345 So why are you here?
The fact that writers don’t know what’s happening overall is terrifying and explains secret invasion
That's been the whole mcu. Writers were always in the dark. Feigie and producers have always been the conductors
@@andreacalvillo353Right, but before it seemed that Feige would give better instructions or perhaps more freedom to his writers/directors. Also, they were bolder in their choices of filmmakers going with the likes of Gunn, Whedon, and Shane Black. Aside from Raimi, they have stayed very much in their lanes recently.
@@thechairman74 not really. Love or hate Thor 4, love and thunder was completely taikia watiti's film. He said he got full creative controll. That's the movie he wanted to make and from behind the scenes it seems him and others had a really fun time on set.
Multiverse of Madness is completely a rami film. Lots of homages to rami films and his sensibilities.
Wakanda forever does feel like a personal film coogler chose to make to help grieve over his friend Boseman. Ironically quantumania feels the most mcu type film and less director focused. Eternals was full creative control to Zhao same with black widow. The problem seems feigie has given too much control away to actors and directors. Black widow was scar Jo's movie. She picked the director and was executive producer. She worked with the costume department to get the right look for Natasha. And a lot of female fans seem to like those choices made while a lot of male fans seem to have supported the film in a fast and furious action movie kind of way. Now people are asking fiegie to to have more power than his more recent hands off approach
@@andreacalvillo353 Yeah, although while Taika and his bunch may have had a lot of fun making the film, we all sure didn't have anywhere near as much watching it. However, you are right in pointing out those recent films. I think we have to give WF a pass because it was the film that Coogler needed to make, and couldn't have been crafted with the usual Feige influence. While ScarJo did have a lot of say in BW, the basic concept of the film was flawed, at least in its timing both in story and in reality.
We need more feige flavor in Disney+ projects man
More is not always better. The Disney series asked too much of the audience- too many different plot lines and threads. I’m excited about Loki, it’s off to a good start-let’s hope it continues to shine
Regarding viewership of Loki, I think it was a mistake to release it on the same week as the Ahsoka finale. I suspect most MCU fans are also Star Wars fans, and vice versa. We needed some time to digest what happened in Ahsoka before diving in to Loki. At least, that's the way that I felt. They should have left a buffer of at least a week, if not two, between the series.
When it comes to the Disney+ shows I want them to continue, but if they are going to stick with making them six episodes make each episode around an hour long or give them more episodes. I want the shows to feel like stories they couldn’t tell in two hours.
True. Always a let down, fair or not.
To be honest, I don't really like the six episodes format. I wish they put out nine or even ten episodes so the story will be 👍
I wish they put atleast 9 episodes.
6 episodes feels so rushed and no time to properly connect with the storyline.
Look what 9 episodes did to Wandavision. ❤
@@danellyhughes and let us watch them all, am tired of having to wait a week to see an episode 🙄.
If you're going to do six episodes, you need to be a show like Luther that packs a punch.
When that show was done, even at six episodes, I needed a break.
Tbh Loki is the first mcu project i've been excited for for ages. But I don't really have an appetite to over analyze it, at least not 1 episode in to a new season. It was just nice to be back in that 'world'.
I do think that the extended universe with no connective tissue is a huge part of this. We needed an Avengers title in the last 4-5 years. We need to see these hero’s in each others projects and such. We also need answers sooner than we have been given. The MCU has always had lingering questions that take time to payoff but you can’t have an entire movie or series that answers nothing and just leaves more questions. People want to feel like the overall story is progressing but right now we just feel like we don’t know where it is going and even who will be there when we get there. We need answers and direction.
And since they waited so long to give us any actual answers on a competent direction (beyond a plethora of questions, new heroes, and beatable Kangs), they will now have to write something that will feel wildly rushed or convenient as it will probably end up bringing together multiple new heroes all at once despite not teasing them interacting at all previously.
Neither do the writers or Feige.
An Avengers movie or even some kind of fun team up like a live action multiverse Avengers would have been fun at end of phase 4. Would have provided shock value and hype at least.
I'm not burnt out, I absolutely love Loki and counted the days until its release!
yea I don't think actual fans are burnt out; we'd love to see new releases every week without all the waiting in between if it were up to us;
Same I've been waiting for season 2 of Loki since 2021
I’m not burnt out but season 2 is just trash. There are no redeeming qualities outside of the acting. The storytelling, vFX, editing, etc are all terrible.
yea, that's b.s.@@davidwindell :: the storytelling has been excellent; NOBODY saw that cliffhanger from ep. 4 coming; not even you; the vFX has been fantastic as well; and you don't know what "editing" even means :: folks like you just say a bunch of words and it's Empty; Claims with nothing to back them up; You'll say the vFX is terrible but will give Zero Examples of poor vFX; you'll say the storytelling is bad; again with No examples of bad storytelling; and we know why; it's always the same people complaining for the same reasons
To me Secret Invasion's biggest problem was that it started out as a story with two friends as protagonists and exploring the themes associated with that friendship, then pulled the emotional weight out of the show by killing Talos and had to grapple to finish the story. Episodes 1-4 were decent to me. How great would it have been to have both the brawn and wit of Talos and Fury together to take down an even more powerful Gravik in the end.
The actor playing Talos wanted out of the MCU as well, which did not help.
They literally dragged the rug from under us and gave the big boss battle theme give the hero some Uber power enough to match the main villain wind them up and watch them go.
@@Canuck1000well he’s a skrull they could literally change his face and it wouldn’t be a problem lol
Killing Talos and Maria Hill were the biggest mistakes of that show
@@karlitatv While I loved the Maria Hill character, her death wouldn't have been so problematic if they at least showed the ramifications emotionally for Fury. It was the deepest dive we've gotten on Fury, but they stopped short. Let us see the deaths impacting him and in turn impacting his actions. Not sure why they skipped that part, but it made Fury less human.
Crazy to think how good we had it in 2015-2019
I’d start with 2014, Winter Solider and GOTG kicked off Marvel’s run of grade A movies.
To be fair there were a lot of people claiming MCU was dead and that most of the movies sucked. Even though me and fans loved them
Most of those movies do not hold up. Raise your bar
We didn't even know then how good we had it. The only film thats come out that I had a modicum of similarity to my experience watching IW/EndgAme was Spiderman NWH came close but that first endgame watch was straight epic.
@@chaberio1335 screaming at fan service bs doesn't mean the movie is good
My family and I aren't burned out on Marvel, but honestly, we didn't know that Loki S2 had premiered for two or three days after it did. We're not watching things on D+ every day, so it slipped by us. But we really enjoyed the episode, and we're anticipating the new episode this week.
I think the biggest influence to the fatigue is theory culture. No offense to screen crush or heavy spoilers I love their breakdown videos but when a theory really gets going and grows in popularity it really impacts the overall impression of the show. Then when the theory gets debunked a lot of people overreact and say it’s bad writing and are ultimately disappointed in an entire season/series. The writing for sure has been mediocre and I think theory culture has impacted that side of it too because they almost would rather go the direction people aren’t expecting. Hoping the other side of this writers strike brings out some inspired work and we can all sit back and enjoy the show.
also, when the first one or two episodes air, and theory/breakdown channels jump to "IS IT BAD?!" and "MARVEL IS DOOMED!!", it kinds just seems like screaming catastrophe just for the views. like cmon, let the shows cook...
and when they're done, maybe then see if it's bad overall. not after the first 2 ahsoka eps, or this video after ONE episode of loki. gawd damn i love this channel but if they keep doing this after premiere episodes im just gonna skip videos just based on the title/thumbnail
Bravo, really well said actually. Fans expect so much and its part of why when something new comes out its so popular because people dont know what to expect.
And it started during the pandemic and Wandavison.
I was 31 the year Iron Man dropped. The Marvels is coming out on my birthday. I will be turning 46. A lot of people in my age bracket have simply moved on. And a 20 year old moviegoer was a toddler when Iron Man first dropped. So you can’t expect them to have the same investment in the MCU.
This is all uncharted territory. No franchise has been consistently dropping content for this long without rebooting. And while you can throw in a franchise like Mission Impossible, they don’t drop movies every year.
I think the pandemic is the primary culprit. But that’s just my opinion. The other was taking out the two most popular characters (Tony Stark , Steve Rogers) and not replacing them. Seeing Rhodes in secret invasion knowing stark was gone made the show seem hollow.
And seeing caps shield and all of Starks technology get passed around felt disrespectful to their legacy.
And not putting Wakanda at the forefront more only disconnects fans who came into the MCU because of black panther. Shang Chi brought in new fans, but theres no sequel talks.
Basically, marvel is spreading itself thin trying to cater to every market at the expense of alienating every market.
I wonder if Loki dropping on Thursdays opposite Thursday Night Football has will have a slight dampening effect on Disney Plus' viewing figures too.
Very good insight that's the reason why I missed the premiere.
@@story3877 It's coming out the day before though. If you watched it the next day then it was at the exact same time you would have watched it if it released at midnight. Try using your brain.
@@CBoxStudiosI had to wait until Friday night to watch it. Because it came out 2am Friday in UK.
@@Natta44 Ok, cool. And?
I miss the days when shows had long seasons and you did not have to wait 2+ years for a season 2 , I want my shows to be 1 year apart , after 2yrs I just don’t care anymore.
The trade off that was offered to viewers, "less episodes means no filler episodes! It's all going to be GLORIOUS amazingly important meat on the bone episodes! With stunning special effects!" has never, ever been realized. Even with WandaVision and Loki, they could have been and should have been 10-12 episode traditional 45-60 min EP seasons. Its always a lie when they pull that line. If you don't understand the concept of needing character development, or letting a storyline breathe...it's sad. If you can't come up with a storyline to fill a season plus more your storyline isn't there. Maybe it should be the B story, but stop trying to pass those off as A stories. It's.l not working.
Would so much rather have dinky AF effects and more time spent with characters than being wowed with flash bangs that leave everyone coughing over just the smoke that's been blown up our rears in lieu of well thought out plots.
@@JustJessee the idea of filler episodes to me is a dumb concept, if you care about the characters and world building a "filler" episode that's just a conversation, or low stakes whatever various episodes are considered filler format, or even just slower-paced, are still great episodes that humanize the characters and rounds them and their relationships out, it completely depends on how it's executed in the actual comics self-contained stories that have no plot significance or even an extreme deviation from character or plot norms can be better than the current linear story
Great guest commentators with very insightful views on ‘Marvel fatigue’. They are the type of guests you need more of on these review shows, Ryan.
@screencrush I follow and watch all the you tubers you mention early in video and this video is by far the most unique and best video in this genre I have watched in months. Your interview and edge of business element, while diving into elements that create questions for the viewer presented a most watch video. I shared this with many friends that are die hard marvel fans like myself and we all love this video.
Also feel like if Marvel just released the whole series instead of releasing it week by week would allow audiences to watch at their own pace (most ppl like to binge watch series)
Exactly, I had delayed watching it simply because I knew that it was going to be there, and I wasn’t gonna be able to watch the next episode, so no real rush.
Wanda got the Dany Targaryen treatment, it was like i was watching a different character. They didn't know what to do with her, so they ignore her arc on WandaVision completly. The problem isn't superhero fatigue, its lazy writing and disconected storylines.
The first season of “Moving” has 20 episodes, and it really gave the story room to deepen and breathe, across two generations. They did a great job.
Agree 100%
Personally speaking, it's not just marvel fatigue. It's entertainment fatigue period. We're so bombarded by programs wanting our attention that it can be mentally exhausting picking and choosing what to watch. Call it a cursed blessing or a first world problem, but my dopamine has been stretched thin and I find it easier to just watch nothing at all and just go back to reading books and touching grass.
Loki is the best Marvel show they ever had!!
Loki and What If are the only good MCU TV shows imo.
And what if!
Thank you for joining Joanna and Dave! This was great!
Very insightful conversation/interview, thank you for this great content ☺️👍🏻
Maybe it’s because each project feels somewhat disjointed and there is little to no connective tissue between stories. And sometimes the series leaves the audience with unanswered questions that aren’t addressed for several years if at all.
That is literally how story telling in cinema has been since it's inception. This happy ending bs where everything wraps up is a recent phenomena, an interconnected universe of 25films and 16TV shows is fucking ridiculous, point out any other time this has been done.
Some of the greatest movies end w/ "Wait. Is that it? But what about..." and then people get to discuss it and express their hopes/beliefs/theories. Shows that ended after 14 seasons left w/ a main character walking out the door saying they need to figure something out or were moving to a new city to start over.
I will say I really enjoyed your delivery of the first episode. You added more platforms that you was on and suggested merch more, I could tell that you really wanted to increase your following with that breakdown . From a production standpoint you are awesome and definitely worthy to be one of the top three breakdown channels
It's weird, cuz you're definitely making fun of them, but acting like you're not, but you're bad at it.
@@davida12345 I love them, they, his and hers
Good point too. All the selling of merch and ect sponsors may turn folks off. Has nothing to do with the shows.
my only complain is that after release night of ahsoka ep1/2: screenscrush vid = "is it BAD?!", and after release night of loki s2ep1: screencrush = "marvel is DOOMED!". i love this channel, but these kind of videos need to be toned down, or at least done _after_ the series have released in full. it's wayyy too early in the season, and seems like they're just being sensational for views...
yea the title has 'clickbait' all over it @@slack__
I also want to say that when we went into the first Avengers movie, we knew exactly who our main heroes were going to be and who they were and it was perfect. Perfect casting, perfect execution. You come from that to where we are now years later and we have literally dozens of *possible* main supers but no main cast and worst of all, no central figure to even start the process. Could it be Sam? Stephan? Reed? Who knows! We have literally dozens of big characters and more and more being introduced and it’s impossible to form emotional attachments when it just feels like The Big Disney Superhero Parade Show going in too many directions and no specific direction at all.
Excellent video and really fascinating time (just the balance of creative vs the shareholders, etc). I think a big problem is the lack of main goal posts - with the first phases, you had some idea of how things would culminate (with some twists on the way) but it feels more making it up as they go which makes each entry feel less important/not critical to see.
So many layers to this - good news is I still enjoy the product for the most part and even if they never get back to the heights they once had, I will enjoy the ride
It’s not super hero fatigue because I’ve been into super hero stuff since the Batman tv series even though they were reruns when I was a kid, but it’s the bad projects they have been putting out where nothing feels connected after end game which is what really got me into the MCU was the connective tissue. It’s giving me DC vibes where stuff just feel all over the place on top of not even seeing this new avengers team even come together in any film or show. Every movie before end game felt connected in some way even when telling its own story it felt like it was apart of everything else but now I don’t even know if eternals is apart of this universe or not same with moonknight and a few other projects. On top of by now Shang chi should have had a second film by now helping connect a few people or him running into Sam’s captain America or something. Old MCU had you thinking about theories after each project because it felt connected now you have no theories because I have no clue what this is apart of on top of bad writing choices.
love all this insight! one of the most engaging videos yet. your guests brought their A game
In the episode when Loki and Sylvie are trapped on the doomed moon I think they were about to create the branch because had they kissed sylvie wouldn’t have turned against Loki in that moment and not kill he who remains and took over the tva which would’ve broken the loop
I love the way she described the d+shows like cars in a train cause spot on!!
Instead of making shows on obscure nobodies like agatha, echo, wonder man they should make movies on characters people actually want like the fantastic four, X-men and cooler characters like silver surfer and ghost rider
Loki is the only thing holding Marvel together.
Pretty much. If they didn’t announce that Guardians 3 was the last one, that too would be holding Marvel together. Unfortunately because of the bad quality lately of both Marvel and Star Wars after Loki is done I am canceling my Disney Plus subscription. They lost me permanently.
False! The first season of Loki wasn’t even that good. Saying Loki is holding Marvel together is a flagrantly arrogant and untrue statement in my opinion. Spider Man, Wakanda Forever and GOTG3 were ALL good and successful films that DIDNT have Loki in it. Soooo no, not true
@@ninersdodgersthunder all my friends that I watched it with and others i talked to did not enjoy Wakanda Forever. and although fun to watch, the quality of the spider man and gotg movies definitely went down in terms of storytelling.
You're just wrong.
@@atomhereyour friends don't matter,it was a successful movie, so saying is holding Loki together is silly when black panther and Spiderman pulls numbers
I’ve been bingeing these shows, I wait until they are all out. Then I watch all your videos.
*pauses video to watch Loki breakdown*
I watched Loki right away and loved it! I haven’t watched the breakdown because I have midterms this week and I usually have to watch those with my boyfriend and we have to find mutual time. Nothing to do with enjoyment of Loki OR your channel :) you’re the best!!!
I think what this means is that a HUGE amount of people was password sharing and now they cant... instead of paying for it themselves, they just dont watch it at all now.
Also this.
It is not Loki viewership, it is the breakdown channels. 10.9million registered accounts watched Loki s02e01, only Mandalorian has beaten that and people were legitimately not aware that Loki s02 was ready (I stumbled upon it). He is asking if we are just not giving a shit about ScreenCrush, NewRockstars, or the other ones and honestly I only watch this guy anymore b/c of the "your mom" jokes and find the others irritating. It is not like they are actually pointing out 77 things I missed.
I said similar in my comment. @@Hollywood041 --- I like Ryan, but he's all the way wrong to Judge fan fatigue on if we are watching His videos or his Buddies; I pretty much despite New Rockstars....
Super hated MT; esp his anti recast tchalla stance on Twitter --- not a fan of how they break down WAY Too much and takes the enjoyment out of being surprised; they see a 2 minute trailer and pause it to get every morsel they can; and end up guessing the whole damn film;
Charlie is the worst; He spoils stuff that isn't related all the time. If you haven't seen something you better not watch Charlie; He'll spoil some ish from Blue Beatle while you're watching him review Loki; it's the worst - he ruined Ragnarok for me - he was doing a review for something else and went into how Thor did this and that and I almost never ever watch him now.
Ryan 'for the most part' does well; but even some of his videos I'm skipping cause, I don't wan the theories of what they think might happen or might unfold;
they need to come up with something because when Loki is over i’m not sure what’s going to be holding the MCU together
cuz lets be honest, it probably won't be The Marvels...
I would prefer a live action spiderverse.
@@dansteuer1411 They literally just did that with No Way Home
@@mon_nobi and it was a huge success.
@@dansteuer1411 and? Sorry to break it to you but there is no chance that the next Spider-Man movie will be another live action spiderverse movie
More of that, please. Very interesting video.
i think part of the "fatigue" is there are not only so many mid entries but also the mid entries seem to get just as much content be it explination videos easter egg ect which means fans are spending extra time on mid entries making it all less appealing.
Didn’t Variety report that Loki’s viewership was groundbreaking for Disney Plus? I’m 100% sure I read that this past weekend…
He is not commenting on Loki viewership. He is asking about their channels... do people not give a shit about the breakdowns anymore? And honestly it is probably the CZcams algorithm being wonky from some update, they tend to do this and then certain channels standard viewers are not getting pushed their videos.
For me, I was more thinking that since not everybody was able to watch It on it's Premier night, they would wait till the weekend. And I avoided any videos about season 2 until I saw the episode first. Could that be something that affected the numbers on a larger scale than just me?
You’re the reason why the MCU is messed up.
No. Ryan specifically said that they waited to gather the week's numbers to account for late viewership (weekend). Unfortunately, not everybody gets Sat/Sun off RYAN!
@alejandronopasanada5302 excuse me? Elaborate on how me living my life and watching what i want when the fuck i feel like it is messing up a dumpster fire. And spare me how it's not bc 2 episodes of Loki and GOTG3 were good. MARVEL messed up Marvel
@@chefartiebucco22 Wow, it was just a joke to go with your premise. You might need therapy. Also, if you’re that easily open, trolls will pick you a part. If Trump were president, you would know your place!
Did I get you again? I was trying that time be honest.
Great interview; very interesting (and some scary) points raised.
I was also caught unaware by the timing of Loki S2E1 - thankfully my partner told me (it’s the only Marvel show he’ll sit and watch with me). Yes; too soon after Ahsoka.
Loki is creative and has lots of humorous elements; this can help keep a casual viewers attention even when they’re bamboozled by everything else. That elevator scene was classic.
More broadly, I am looking forward to better quality Marvel productions (like Loki) but if there’s anything I don’t understand I know I only have to wait until the next day to enjoy your breakdown of the show. Thanks Ryan, Doug & Screencrush team! 🙌
Your two guests are spot on.
To be fair, anyone thought it would last forever? Everything ends, even the MCU.
Lol u see a little video and u think it's ending?
@@gabrielruiz219 it's been going for a while now. Despite your comment, everything does end eventually. I don't know why it would be different for the MCU? It's just life.
@@gabrielruiz219It will eventually end. Everything will. Bond. Star Wars. Call of Duty. Walking Dead. DCU. Mario. MCU
It shouldn’t have this soon. It’s the goofy decisions
@alejandronopasanada5302 it's been 15 years, it's a pretty good run!! 😀 I'm an 80s kid who was reading comics and I never expected seeing these Characters on the big screen, I'm pretty happy that I got a chance to live it!!
Some of the statistics you’re comparing it to is kinda unfair. The numbers during first season of Loki is slightly after and during COVID.
These guys are greedy
@@waplegendgabriel8893 exactly! Why aren’t my vids getting 10,000,000 views? Lmao like yeah Marvel isn’t what it once was I get that. But some workplace restrictions were still in effect in early 2021. The world has opened back up now and people aren’t streaming like they were before. Plus in the wise words of Master Yoda “begun the Streaming Wars has” lmao. People aren’t gonna pay for increasing streaming services. I use to have the big 4 Netflix, Amazon, Disney, and Max. Now I’m down to Disney and Amazon.
Every Loki Vid of yours I've watched recently has had a 'Loki now on Disney plus' ad!
I have a whole different perspective than them. I actually think we are not getting enough movies/shows. It’s 52 weeks in a year so 3 series that are only 6 episodes a series is just not enough. It’s like we’ll never get to Blade or Fantastic 4 or Ghost Rider & whoever else we haven’t seen in the MCU yet not to mention characters like Shang Chi, Eternals, Vision & others that we haven’t seen in years. We just need more to keep our attention in my opinion.
Kang was defeated by evolved super ants in Quantumania
The problem with the recent shows is what you've talked about many times before : interconnectivity. The pre-Endgame era all connected SO well, with each movie giving you SOMETHING that connected it to other movies, and an overall story arc. Endgame was 2019, and I feel like we still have no idea what the point of everything we've seen so far exactly IS (sure, multiverse. But like....so?).
Plus, personally, there's too much new stuff. I've watched all the Star Wars and Marvel stuff Disney's put out, and have loved some of it (WandaVision, Loki S1, Hawkeye, Andor), and been bored and borderline hated some of the other (Ms.Marvel, Secret Invasion, Ahsoka's start). But I'd love to see continuations of the things by this point. Between Iron Man 1 and the first Avengers was 4 years. It's been almost longer than that since Endgame, and I feel we're just introducing more and more. The start of this, for me, was watching WandaVision, then seeing Coven of Chaos (or w/e it's called now) getting greenlit. Then they doubled down on this idea with Echo after Hawkeye.
Stop giving us more and more projects that feel like they're in their own worlds. They should be sticking to a couple main stories, tying them together, and having better cohesion. There's just nothing to care about yet, it seems like.
FINALLY we're getting more of one of, if not the most, interesting plot from this "new" era of Marvel. TLDR : Stop flooding us with characters, and work on building up the ones you're trying to establish. Avengers started with 5 key heroes. Just because we've HAD Endgame, doesn't mean we need 50 heroes in every story now. BUILD to Secret Wars, don't just throw all the pieces at us, then be like "Welp, here's probably the biggest story in Marvel ever, with 50 characters you've just met!"
Edit : I think one thing that goes along with this, that might've lost a bunch of the casual fans, who don't know every single minor character from the comics that we're now getting shows about, is the fact that we haven't gotten a whole lot of information on the big characters that we watched 20+ movies for. What's going on with Cap? What's actually happened/happening with Banner? Is Black Widow just dead and gone now? Some more info of what actually happened with all Tony's tech. Did it all just go to Damage Control? I think this is a big part of why Guardians did so good : The story wrapped up arcs for characters we'd been following.
This is such an important conversation.
Lokis my favorite show. Love your channel and new Rockstars . Hope yall don't stop . We need yall ❤🤘❤️🔥🤘
Ahsoka didn't help. I'm still watching reruns and breakdowns, other starwars stuff until today. Maybe it will pickup, and hopefully Loki will be the one to pul up MCU😊
Yea Ahsoka was a huge letdown. I wanted, hoped for a good fight between team light side vs Grand Admiral Thrawn. We didn’t get that.
I haven't even watched Ashoka yet
@@imperfectxennial3008disagree. As a Rebels fan, Ahsoka was great.
Ahsoka is such an alienating show, I have to watch like all of rebels and clone wars and I tried to watch rebels and I just couldn't get into it, I just see so many episodes and my mood gets down when I imagine I have to watch so much stuff bc i am a relatively new star wars fan
Ashoka was just bad. It was painfully slow, had dull, one dimensional characters, didn’t make much sense and overall was just another huge let down. Star Wars is dwindling on life support at best and nothing Disney are producing makes the Disney + subscription fee worth it.
let me be the first to say, we love you Ryan and Doug.
Aye the editing on point 🔥
I think that Endgame was the most epic climax and conclusion ever seen in the MCU, and that everything after that feels forced, rushed, and unnatural. It turns out that there's an Avengers movie coming in a couple of years but the audience is not even sure who are the current Avengers. We could say the Young Avengers but still the MCU hasn't invested into that direction.
I think the larger issue really began formally during civil War. The stakes in the MCU are often elevated due to the nature of these heroes and the great undertakings they have with various threats and villains. In civil War, we see Rhodey crash into the ground from a free fall after being hit with a blast from vision. When Tony arrives and rips off his mask to see his friend in critical condition, I swear that scene was written to show that Rhodey died. But, at the end of the movie, we see him wearing leg braces and beginning recovery. The moment that happened, the stakes no longer mattered going forward. Now I love his character, and I love a lot of the interactions we've had with him since that movie, but because nobody died, the steaks no longer felt real. We know the main heroes need to live so they can be in the next project. In a similar vein, we recently all made the assumption that Scott would die in Quantamania-- he definitely lived, in spite of the fact that we had. Had Cassie as an easy replacement or he lined up. And while there were deaths that happened in infinity War, there were so many of them that it just seemed unrealistic that those heroes would stay dead, especially when Black Panther and Spider-Man were amongst those characters, and they are well and truly loved and had huge franchises awaiting them. Those to death felt meaningless in the grand scheme of things because we knew it would be undone. There have been some deaths along the way in the MCU, but most of them are not of major characters who would hold a franchise of their own. Black widow is one of the few exceptions, and they still made her solo film after her death, would sort of made it feel like the stakes and it didn't matter. Especially in the ending when she hits such a high note of hope for the future, you know it's for nothing. And I think that's the real issue. The studio thinks that we would not continue to come to see these films if certain actors weren't returning, and these actors signed big contracts with multiple films, and they keep getting renewed, so the studio season no reason to write off their character if they are bringing in money. It becomes more about the actor portraying these characters than the story these characters are living through. Thor could have easily been killed off by now, and it's obvious that many of his story lines have just dwindled and quality over the years because he seems different in almost every film. Been in, that inconsistency is because I just have to figure out a new way to give this character. Something to do, rather than having the story be the driving force. Likewise, black widow was different in almost every film until the events after civil War, up to that point they kept trying to lean into various stereotypes about what her character could be, but once they finally course corrected and gave her something meaningful to do, other than looking good, they killed her off about a movie or two later. If you go back and rewatch Iron Man. Man 2, the avengers, or age of Ultron, her larger role seems to be being attractive and creating sexual tension. But again, they did course correct with her. It just felt like two little too late once her character died. And, again, she is one of the few deaths in the MCU that occurred to a main character, let alone a title screen avenger from the original team. Team. Cap has been written out, and Iron Man has died, so we've gotten a few characters that moved on from the franchise, and that's good! The problem is that the studio seems to think that's bad because that's not how they bill their movies. That's not how they plan out what's coming next. Fans get excited when they see an actor or actress they really love. Look at how overnight Jennifer Lawrence, Chris Pratt, Tom Holland and Oscar Isaac started showing up and everything, and the focus in those films seem to be casting these tent pole talent actors. I'm not saying this never happens in Hollywood, it happens all the time, but because these actors were tied to continuing roles in the MCU, it felt like every other studio was dying to get their hands on these actors for any five seconds they could squeeze between major MCU projects.
In the end, the MCU has had some major missteps, and many decisions have felt like critical reactions off of one or two projects and trying to anticipate what the fans want, or think they want. A great film with great characters, we will definitely show up. I think that's what they have forgotten. In the recent years. Some projects still had strong moments even if the overall film was bad, but generally the bad decisions seemed to be studio level decision making, trying to course correct or steer the project in a certain direction. And what you all said in the interview about the different train cars, getting their own decorations makes perfect sense and is definitely a result of these types of decisions. And because the writers can't anticipate where a character might go next, they also can't really kill them off, or change them in a deep and profound way that couldn't then be undone a movie later. But some of those still do get undone a movie later lol. The same problem is happening over in Star Wars right now, don't get me wrong, and DC absolutely tried way too hard to course correct on almost every project, so I am in no way insinuating that the MCU or Marvel as a brand are necessarily the problem. It's just the fact that studios care more about the actor and brand recognition than they do. The actual story being told, and that's why so many big shot directors and writers have admonished superhero projects over the years because they see no value in churning out content if it lacks soul. MCU, and superhero movies at large, need to get stakes back. People need to die or lose a limb or show SOME SIGN of danger being real. I think the recent example in Star Wars with lightsabers is an equally valid argument and point to highlight. A lightsaber stab used to be a near instant kill, and in the last year or two, who've seen at least two characters stabbed with lightsabers, one of whom was stabbed at least twice, and live. I recognize that characters have survived traumatic wounds before, like Anakin losing his limbs, or Maul being halved-- but the fact that two characters have recently survived what used to be a fatal blow early on in a show when it's obvious their character has much more to do later in the series... It really feels like it never mattered and they could have gotten a much more minor injury and the story still would have been served. In fact, imagine how good the Ahsoka series would have been. If maybe Sabine had lost part of her leg or part of her arm. She would then have a cybernetic limb going forward and learned that she needs to be more careful in battle, and not even armor can protect someone when the opponent has greater skill or speed. That could have been great! Or imagine if Reva had escaped the Jedi temple instead of being stabbed, and that her revenge was still unnecessary element for hating Vader. Or imagine if she never knew Anakin became Vader, and only found out once she was serving him as an inquisitor. That would have been such a great moment for her! Or maybe we could have seen another one of the inquisitors get stabbed and die for real, and now she has even more reason to hate Vader, because she sees how to disposable her brothers and sisters are. That would have worked so much better than what they did, and including uncle Owen and Aunt beru was probably one of the dumbest things I've ever seen because we knew they would live that encounter and survive into episode 4 of the original Star Wars films. Same with young Leia, we knew she ultimately would live through the event, as would Vader, as would Obi-Wan... All of these characters appeared in later films, so we know they have to be able to come back somehow. And let's not forget that the grand inquisitor was also killed off right away, and miraculously brought back a few episodes later. It just gets played out that we know some characters cannot exist in future films and others can, but nobody really dies. Or major characters won't die. Those are the steaks that we need. Wakanda forever was forced to let a character die because Marvel decided to not recast Black Panther. I won't say if that was a good decision or not, but they stuck to it and they allowed a character to be written out, and that allowed the story to progress. It's tragic to think that a real life death is what it took for a studio to do something more daring, but I guess that's the world we live in.
This story is so much more interesting than anything they’ve written for the marvel universe in a decade
Marvel felt more like an event with movies. Now it feels like bad TV shows on a platform we have to pay for. Really should be two shows a year that push the phase along big time.
Bro Faxs should have NEVER made these tv shows
You had to pay for TV before as well. Unless it was ABC/CBS/NBC you paid for channels, and then these three you paid w/ your eyes on the adverts.
Also, you do not want to push the phase along big time... that is the problem, they keep skimming over needed back story to get to the next big moment and when that arrives there is no drama that makes us invested in a particular outcome.
I first saw Doctor Who in 1996 when Paul McGann's movie came out. I had heard of it when I was a kid, but never actually watched it before 1996. Then in 2005, I watched the Doctor and Rose take on the Autons beneath the London Eye, and I was instantly hooked.
When Matt Smith's first season ended in 2010, I became curious about the original series, and a brief search led me to a complete episode guide at wikipedia. Soon after that, I discovered the episodes on youtube, and began watching it from the beginning.
Many of the oldest episodes were reconstructed by fans, often as the original audio with a lot of still photos stitched together to form the video track, but I was able to watch almost the entire series; there were only a handful of stories where some of the parts were missing.
I finished binging the entire corpus on youtube two days before the Christmas special aired.
Ryan you mentioned you were shocked people didn’t watch Loki immediately after premiering but for me 10+ years older as an MCU fan, I work dude. Thursday NIGHT I’m tired, I’m in bed thinking about the weekend and then I have to get up and work again Friday so the earliest I will be willing to sit down and watch a new episode of Loki is Friday night but likely sometime Saturday. And then you have to avoid being online at all so it isn’t spoiled which I honestly resent a little because sneaking a CZcams video or something in during the workweek is comforting fun. So when you have to wait to watch a new episode of a show because the release time is honestly bizarre, it starts to feel like a chore you have to plan your life around.
I’ve been watching the mcu constantly for the last 10-11 years, I’m no longer interested in anything besides Loki atm
Same, exactly
Same here
Same....
Same here. Loki and WandaVision are all I cared about. She-Hulk was fun but I doubt she’ll get the development the character deserves. 🤷🏽♂️
@michaelblack3748 And the MCU has gotten so bloated I can't keep up with the threads...
Like, oh yeah Shang Chi's sister and the ten rings...
Oh yeah, Falcon gave his wings to that cute guy...
Oh yeah..
For me Loki was an anomaly for marvel tv shows because it did a really good job of playing on the mysterious of the TVA, it answered very few questions and produced he’ll of a lot more questions which made me personally keep coming back because I wanted to find out what is going on in this massive mystery of a place. First season turned Loki from a selfish Villain to a far more complex interesting character. Lokis relationship with mobius is perfect and has some truly amazing character development of both.
That and the whole TVA is a completely different concept that we had never seen in marvel that also made it really interesting, it was far different to anything that had ever happened in the mcu before hand.
My whole family are Marvel fans. I've raised my 4 kids (now ages 14, 16, 18, 19) on all of the movies and its usually a big family event, almost a holiday event when a new movie drops. Starting with Disney+, my older two checked out. They definitely seemed fatigued by the sheer number of projects to keep up on. Once the quality dropped, most notably with She-Hulk and Secret Invasion, they had no interested in catching up on all of the shows before Wakanda Forever. I think they need to dial back on the interconnectedness for a couple of years so everyone can just go see a movie without all the baggage of the previous movies. Then they can slowly bring it all back together again. No Avengers movie to tie Phase 4 together probably hurt them quite a bit.
Dude...the talk of your thoughts during the Clone Saga mirrored mine completely and that (along with Age of Apocalypse) killed my love of collecting.
I don’t get the Eternals and Quantumania hate (I do understand the Thor-Love and Thunder hate though). Sure, neither movie is Citizen Kane but they were both a couple hours that I enjoyed. Kang lost to ants. So what? Maybe that was his motivation to step up his game and turn into a total bad ass. I thought the Eternals was cool. It was a change of pace, introducing new characters and a new storyline. I don’t know but the MCU is still must watch programming for me.
See I'm the opposite. Eternals was ok (why does no one address the celestial head in the ocean??) Ant-man was so boring. I loved Love and Thunder. Why didn't you? Jw
@@bonnielorraine4145 L&T tried too hard (and failed miserably) to be funny and they completely wasted what could have been a great villain
Eternal was awful i actually like quantummania. Moon knight couldnt get into. She hulk enjoyed
Hey guys! Just found out that Loki’s first episode of the new season was the second biggest streamed episode of Disney plus. 10.9M tuned in. I honestly feel like people haven’t checked the breakdown videos because…maybe for the first time ever in history, most fans can follow along 🤷🏾♂️
Me personally, I haven’t watched many breakdown videos because the only question I had was who pruned Loki. But I’m sure that’s gonna be answered later in the series
A large factor in me falling behind in my MCU watching has a lot to do with the characters being used and the quality of their introductions. They dug deep into the B and C tier bench and couldn't elevate most of them. Up to the trailer I still thought they were joking about doing Eternals. It's not about seeing it all anymore, it's picking and choosing the bits that interest me. That's why I came back for Loki which was great.
Perhaps a small slice in the dip in breakdown video viewership could also be a factor of not people not wanting to watch something that could potentially spoil the show they have interest in watching. At least that's how it is for me as I try to avoid trailers, ads, and anything else that spoils new shows/movies if i can help it, and that includes these kinds of videos from screencrush, rockstars, etc. With the last few marvel/star wars show breakdowns I wait until the season is over to watch them all because I like your ideas and thoughts, but prefer to go into something I know I'm going to watch with minimal knowledge and spoiler-free. So thank you for your hard work, and know that my view on your loke ep 1 video is just delayed!
I loved 🌙 Moon Night and Quantumania.
I’m not fatigued by the MCU. Even if they produced stuff that didn’t work, I’m still supporting them.
Waiting for a few episodes to drop for a binge. Also didn’t know it premiered until I saw the New Rockstars ep 1 breakdown video posted
I get the fan overall fan fatigue i guess but im loving everything! I was stoked for Loki season 2 and i watched it immediately! I look forward to Thursday nights and for each new project to come! Ill be a fan for life ❤
After watching this previous episode, Loki S2 has the potential to be the best Season 2 of any show ever. Ya I said it... EVER!
Haha, no. No matter how great it is, it won’t be better than The Shield/Breaking Bad/Sopranos/etc
Why? I saw episode 1. It felt meh to just OK to me. Short Round or whatever the actor's real name is, was was the only thing it had going for it, in my opinion.
And that includes Owen Wilson! He was fantastic in season 1 and here? He was just sort of present but 2-dimensional.
I’m not fatigued, I’m jus waiting for good product but I think Loki is going to be really good.
You right. They have put so much product out there, it is devalued. And the other thing they missed is that even though Marvel has a bevy of characters not all of them could carry their own comic let alone their own movie. Disney/Marvel started swallowing its own hype, breaking the first rule of show business!!!
Looking forward to the follow-up video on this topic following the Daredevil Born again announcement (and Marvel TV as a whole)
It`s not fatigue! Greed, hubris and entitlement are killing the MCU.
and also if I'm very very honest. MephistoGate was the beginning of the end of breakdowns for me. it was so prevalent, so insistent, that even I built up anticipation for it, and when it didn't come. it was disappointing. Since then I found any breakdown that expounds into theorizing the plot turns me off. I don't wanna know all the awesome things that could happen, only for none of it to happen. I wish they would bring guys like you into the studio to help the writers craft brilliant storylines.
I’ve heard a lot of people saying that they’re waiting until the series can be binged all at once. I don’t know how well the weekly episodes format works these days when people are getting increasingly interested in binging
I am excited to watch Loki. I didn't know it came out so I watched the first episode late. I watched your easter egg breakdown but will probably refrain from watching more because I want to figure out the mystery myself and enjoy the ride. But I'll watch your vids after and applaud you for being right about your predictions.
We need an Avenger movie to drop, soon. We need a Robert Downey, or Chris Evans, return. We need a really good Vision and Hulk team up movie. Something crazy fun.
People need to move past Robert and Chris
I think Moon Knight and Ms Marvel would have benefited as “Special Presentations” like Werewolf by Night or Guardians. She-Hulk’s VFX just needed a couple extra months to cook. Secret Invasion was a mess. And Wanda’s heel turn needed more connective tissue to WandaVision. All of this is because of the Go!Go!Go!CreateContent!Go! mentality that has only served to water down the brand.
I think the superheroes or Marvel fatigue is real. but one thing to consider also is Loki first season came during covid. When most people was either at home or working from home. And lastly, Disney recently increased their price in many countries from 'you don't even have to think about its price" to you have to be committed to paying for Disney Plus price. I think those factors should also be considered.
Part of it for me was that Disney had been doing this 1-2-punch cadence with Star Wars and Marvel: a Star Wars show would end and then the next week a Marvel one would start. This time they had Ahsoka (which is VERY good) going on the same week Loki (which was also very good) started up. Caught me off guard and I figured all the Loki bits were just wild speculation over what the new season would hold rather than responses to the first episode (which I didn't know had dropped)
I know Joss Whedon and his usual crew of writers are persona non grata these days, for valid reasons. But Marvel NEEDS him, or someone very like him.
He had that excellent mix of light comedy and extreme pathos down cold. Marvel needs that back.
He (and his collaborators) were also truly excellent SOAP OPERA writers. It's a unique skill, where a writer is writing for the same characters for decades at a time, and, as a result, you get really deep character growth over time.
Characters on Buffy and Angel changed radically over the years, for organic in-story reasons, and yet were still the same people on the inside at the end as they were on the first day.
Writing specifically for CHARACTER, not "groovy plot moment inserted here!", or just marking time between special effect set pieces, is a rare and valuable skill.
And people that can write BOTH amazing character exploration and amazing plots are rarer still.
That's what Marvel needs.
Do you think the MCU is done for good?
Yeah
No.
Let’s hope not
I've been done with it for a while now. Now I mostly watch your channel and a few others for recaps and breakdowns but i haven't watched any MCU (or Star Wars for that matter) in a few years.
For me it's a little bit of the over saturation of superhero movies/shows but it's mostly the direction the MCU went post phase 1.
It`s not fatigue! Greed, hubris and entitlement are killing the MCU.
We took almost a whole week to watch this first ep. Absolutely loved it and as soon as I watched it I started watching your and Reel Rejects reactions, etc. I think my TV schedule and life schedule has gotten busy and watching, what is a great show, took a backseat. Also I have to wait for husband and son to watch with me. Or that's a whole thing.
I don’t normally like watching these interviews, but this was a really interesting one and that lady did not talk too much she was telling the greatest stories we could ever want to hear
The mistake most ppl made about Marvel success was that it would just continue even after most of its biggest stars were gone. Everything has a shelf life & frankly it's silly to think success just continues indefinitely. Marvel will just have to be content with coming back down to earth. Between Marvel's nad shows & DCs bad movies maybe a break is in order. The age of colorful spandex is coming to an end.😢
I just watched episode 1. And it WAS REALLY GOOD!
I've been hearing a lot of CZcamsrs talking about how much the Shorts trend is hurting view count. Shorts attract the TicTok audience, then when CZcams sends out the initial Sample vid to test viewer interest, there are so many new subs that don't want to watch full length videos and so CZcams assumes lack of clicks means a less interesting video, and sets lower Feed Priority for everyone else. I've noticed several of the channels I watch most no longer show up on my front page, I have to seek them out. This means the notification bell is even more important, but also, that so many channels are getting lower views and people aren't even aware because the Shorts attracted an audience that kills the algorithm for full length videos.
I mean, I usually watched your video right after Ahsoka episodes, but I’ve had a busy week since Loki S2 premiere and I haven’t seen that video even yet. So that’s my excuse. I loved Loki’s S2 premiere!
With shows that only air one episode at a time I often tend to wait for at least several episodes to be out before I start watching. Maybe others also just haven't started the show yet cause they want to be able to binge?
Listening to the discussion, I was reminded of the creative “retreats” at Marvel I used to enjoy reading about. Maybe Marvel should do more creative summits like that on the TV/movie side.
I feel like it would be beneficial if they released more than 1 episode at a time with Loki S2. A lot of people I know don’t want to wait in between episodes anymore, so they’re holding back until more is out. That is also saving them money from their Disney+ subscription
When Loki season 1 came out it was marketed to all hell and was the only show if its kind in the line up for that period. Loki season 2 came it at a time when amazing shows like Gen V, Castlevania: Nocturne and Invincible are releasing. I'm sure I'll watch Loki eventually, but there's no rush.