Incredible Machining: Parts Made In Seconds Using 8 Spindles
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2023
- Making precision parts in 7 seconds on Torno’s MultiSWISS 8x26 CNC machine. Every second matters when running high quantity parts and Donnie shows you how to shave off those milliseconds on the programming side of CNC Machining.
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#Machining #Machinist #Engineering - Věda a technologie
I work in a small shop and all the parts I make are for in house assembly. so I can have periods where I have no work so I'd fill my time by speeding up my run times which just lead to longer periods with no work.
😂
Sell that time obviously
The software does not work out fastest time...!!? Okay then.
@@mikeorr9533 Factory settings are more safe to prevent maintenance, tool and material use...
😂😂😂
I had a supervisor that used to do this, try and squeeze every tiny bit of time from the programme. Taking the tools to the absolute limit of their capabilities, which in theory is great, but unless your going to monitor the machine constantly, in case of tool failure, sometimes it's got to be better to loose a little time per part knowing that every part will be fine, than gaining some time but loosing it on tool breakage and sort outs
This. Milling brass/aluminum is way more forgiving than stainless and titanium. I worked for a very short time for a shop that did Swiss work and took the max-setting suggestions as suggestions for high nickel stainless/titanium. In short, they burned tools left n right and I genuinely wondered if they really saved money with the scrapped parts.
@@MakeItWithCalvin brass is forgiving, depending on what type of is, aluminium is ok but can get 'sticky' on the tools if the cooling isn't ideal and the tool is being pushed to hard.
I was thinking the same thing. You can speed it up just to the point of having a failure every 1,000 parts and not notice it. Then you lost all that time fixing it and getting it running again. I deal with the same thing on my 3D printer trying to reduce every second of print time. I tweak it so far it fails in the middle of a 8 hour print. Then I have to start all over again. So how much time did I save? lol
@@mjodr Boom! You nailed it on the 3D printing side of things. People want speed, but then cry when the print reliability is crap. That's the price you pay pushing things.
@@mjodr have you tried 150% infill line width at near your max volume flow?
mad respect to you guys for being dedicated to delivering free education and insight into machining at a high level
I assume that making these video's is super expensive. What do you thing their motivations are? Are the channel and their sponsors just making these video's to get young people interested in CNC machining and other related careers? (It's working 🤣)
@@sud9320 I don't know about the "expensive" side. What is "super expensive"? The motivations is very likely to make more money from a different source ....CZcams. "Benefit to others" would only be up to the audience.
HOWEVER, standing in front of a machine not running, is "non-productive".....losing money ....lost machine time.
.
Tittyboy/owner is the only one doing okay(he is nearly free). The rest of these Jabronies, are lames. Only the owner is winning what so ever. Everyone else in these vids are broke assses
Eh... too many assumptions, they might be waiting for a material shipment.@@taxicamel
I'm from South Africa and just love these videos
I always tell the people I train you can make bad parts just as fast as good ones lol
It's either a usable PART, or it's junk. No such thing as a BAD part. It's how I was taught. (.005 tolerance to us actually meant .002-3 max)
It was amazing seeing this run in person while I was there and for Donnie giving us a personal explanation of it. Thank you Titan for allowing us to have a tour of your shop and too Trevor for giving us the amazing tour. Also thank you to the rest of the Titans for showing us everything you guys are doing and saying hi to us. Thanks Kyle
Thank YOU kyle! Also thanks for stopping by! 🤙
I used to set multi spindles many years ago, but instead of CNC they where cam operated and utilised form tools, our multi spindle bay were manufacturing millions of parts per week. Single spindle auto's were making olives 3 at a time with 6 second cycle
Cam driven multispindles are very fast and still hold amazing tolerance. I used to design all the form tools, tool holding and setups for some. These CNC ones have a huge advantage though, fast setup/changeovers
I currently work on that. Acme-gridly 6 spindle. I'm cranking out a dual delivery part. Cycle time of 6.7 seconds (divide in half cause of the dual delivery.) While this vid is awesome, you're right. I'm holding a 2 tenths of a tho tolerance. crapping out 900k in a few months.
I'm a davenport guy. We can get down to 2 seconds or so. But man they take a long time to set up
In norway we have much faster speed pr part than this. 3 sec at some point depending at what wee was making. the gippring part have a cycle time of 1.3 sec that's cam machines. the index ms 40 cnc could make this par in this video at 5 sec may be faster. run it as a dual 4 spindel machine . if its not a special cut that i cant se.
Index 25's and Traub A25's, and other models of course, were/are king of high speed production!! Only ''problem'' is/was, calculating the curves on the cam plates and making the plates for a new part, and fine-tuning the cycle. But if it was done correct, it was blistering fast!! The good old days!!
Very impressive this machining so powerful it can only handle by barry
You spelled Donnie wrong
Just watch it and reply
@Donnie Hinske I just remembered the reaction in this video 🤣😂czcams.com/video/dr23brKzzlg/video.html
@@donniehinske 😂😂😂
I was surprised he called you Barry because you're the only guy on Titan that's one Donnie wide. 😁
Edit:
And one Donnie tall.
In 1965, fresh out of High School, I got a job as an apprentice tool designer for a screw machine shop. The shop had about 30 multiple spindle screw machines, and a half dozen single spindle machines. I think the biggest were Acme-Gridley RA-8. 8 spindle behemoths, clouds of cutting oil and tons of chips. I only worked there about a year, then I worked for President Johnson, he was Commander in Chief, I was a Private.
Golly man, that machine is very advanced! I remember working at a shop and we were machining the exhaust elbows for Holset, they went on the dodge Cummins turbo diesels. We were required to get 20 parts an hour done, and I was always in competition with 2nd shift on who could get the most parts done per shift so I messed with the feeds and speeds on the machine and figured out I was able to get 30 parts an hour done without wearing down the inserts more. No wonder why my boss loved me, come to find out, I saved a lot of time for the cycle time of the parts 🤙🏽😉
That was definitely worth the wait to see it make parts. That machine is insane with 7 seconds cycles. it just blow my mind. 🤯
Old school manual machinist here. Really neat to watch these incredibly amazing machines and the guys who are pros at running them.
I do find it surprising that you don't get unacceptable dings in your finished parts, especially on the threads of heavy brass fittings, dropping into the bins the way they do.
It has a part catcher. You see it come in and clamp the part just as it's parting off then retracts. He also tries to change the time it takes for the part catcher to move from 0.4 seconds to 0.1 but it doesn't allow him as the minimum it can go is 0.2 seconds.
I'm guessing once the catcher retracts it drops the part maybe 4" into the baskets which (again guessing) are on a conveyor. So they can be emptied when the machine is still running. So there's no time lost stopping to empty 1 full basket of parts every 5 minutes.
@@seanb9818 ahhh, I gotcha, hadn't seen that. Makes sense now.
Always enjoy your videos Donny keep up the great work!
It's crazy how intuitive that Tornos software is. Great job showing us what is possible with these amazing machines.
With an IT background the software looks outdated and could be even more intuitive from my impression. Not sure if this is the best of the best.
@@stefan-bayer I never said it was “the best of the best,” only that it is intuitive.
@@st3althyone Sorry, was not meant to sound mean from my side :) - just wanted to check if someone had the same impression that this could be improved more
It looks the opposite of intuitive to me. Like Sefan said, it could have a way better UI. Especially having to close the editor windows to open up the variable definitions, just to have to go back again to edit. Like...make a pop-up of the definition when you hover over it? What year is this? lol...but I know why. They want ultimate reliability.
@@stefan-bayer I have no doubt that it could be improved, just like any other software.
really cool to see the in-depth optimization
Honestly this was a cool video. Not sure I'll ever be in the market for a multi-spindle Swiss-type machine, so it's nice to see a break down of some of the features as an onlooker.
Jobs like these go overseas.
@@wannabecarguy Not always.
My question is who wrote the original program and why was so much inefficiency written in to begin?
Was it originally intended for a steel part?
And why isn't there a master program or key parameter to set the program for the material used that would automatically optimize feed rates, spindle speeds and machine operations for the material chosen?
Been running a couple 8x26's for a few years now and about to get a third and they are wonderful machines. Get them setup correctly and they will just pump out parts. We've had it run a single part for weeks at a time with online minor offset changes.
Thank you 👍, as always Donnie's video = fun and super informative about swiss machining
I'm impressed with what these machines are capable of doing. I'm even more impressed at the brains of the company that designed and manufactured this machine!
Sheesh! Great video Donnie! This is super impressive.
Got to love those variables.
excellent, I'm always fighting to keep machine time down good stuff
Glad he knows what he is doing!
Impressive speechcraft, probably backed up by your knowledge as well.
To many companies do things half heartedly.
Efficiency & safety should always be the top keywords for any workphase.
Superb machining sir
Gives me inspiration
Love this guy 1000 words a mins
If you reduce the timer. Then I guess that the pressure between the part and the tool will be higher. Then how do you select the appropriate operation time to avoid damaging your tool?
Unbelievable. Machining is amazing.
Loved the video! One question, how does the machine get the material? keep up the amazing videos!
Speeding up the program is all well and good, but how much undo ware are you putting on the machine. You may save a day, but how much time in downtime for machine failure. Plus, the tools have a max work speed. How many of them are over working. When they program these machines, they are all ready working at optimal speed
Seeing as he’s cutting brass, I’d say it’s a non-issue.
Well, when you are writting your code for that machine...
@@BPond7 in this case it may not... but its something he didn't cover in the video. those changes may have an impact on tool-life, and as such you eventually have to consider tool-change times too.
in my past job i had to redesign an injection mold from pure mechanical sub-division demoulding to a hydraulic driven one, because they couldn't just write a better control-code for the machine to not accelerate/decelerate to fast for the couplings and whatnot.
Being able to save cycletime just on the machine is a great feature...
The defaults can sometimes be fairly conservative so that it can cover all bases as the person setting it doesn't know what will be going on in each specific case. It's up to a smart programmer to know when bringing times down won't cause problems, and bump things back up when they do.
It could be that the ideal solution for something like this is to reduce certain dwells on specific ops where that will affect the end result but keep dwells longer on stations that can afford it without affecting total time, if doing so would improve reliability or so-on.
Because saving 1 second might save a week but if it causes a 5 day downtime for maintenance (plus expenses) was it worth it? That said if running a cylinder harder means needing to be swapped out in 5 years instead of 7, but also means you get 7 years of parts done in 5, then it's worth it.
You can't even spell 'wear' correctly, how can you can even be trusted to predict and handle the wear characteristics of anything when your first solution is "just give up" before you've taken a single measurement or changed a single variable? Quitters like you are hilarious
nice work. hopefully the tools will stay fine as long as they do before ;) how long does it take to setup this part manufacturing on the 8 spindle? (Programming and Tool setup) TY and chip on!
Donnie, nice job explaining the software, my question to you is how long does it take to write the program for an operation like that?
Not to mention to set the tooling. Mind you, they have a pretty efficient way of setting offsets (touch setters etc) quite quickly on each tool.
It would take me more than a week to get the initial program set up, so throw that whole week of time gained away, lol.
When you do large and long part run with a machine like he's using. Long setup time and programming is really a small percentage of the total time you save. He's doing what would takes a single feed swiss lathe a min in 7 seconds.
I used to make those parts on old oil cooled cam driven 6 spindle. Those things light up like an oil well until you kill the air. You have never seen so many calm people while something the size of a moving van is a raging inferno inside the building. Lol
We at my place whe use alfing ad400 on line 2 . We do the 6.6 duramax connecting rods. 4 parts per cycle. 53 sec a cycle. Super fast. Seeing this machine is amazing.
This stuff blows my mind, I wish I would have gotten into machining years ago. Super cool stuff!!
This is sick. When i'm in the store and see parts like these where It's obvious they have been machined, I have always wondered how they were made efficiently.
Years ago I did some electrical work in a shop that had maybe 12 screw machines. I noticed they had some stubby left hand drill bits so I had to ask where they use them. To!d me right after an operation that was turning CCW. with the older machines thought they to!d me they save a full second from not having to stop machine then reverse rotation.
i loved to work on index ms32p, its littel bit diffrent then the Torno’s MultiSWISS.
It would be nice to be able to expand my education because every shop here dont have machines or parts to actually learn anything new. It would be nice to expand my horizon.! Love the videos
Cool excited to show you how to be a badass you're killing me here dude what's Titans video I've seen
Ok heavily thinking about a Swiss machine now!
Well done !
super interesting👍👍
This is awesome
Question...
Are those variables stored with the program, or with the machine?
Once Donnie changes the dwell time on the parts catcher, does that mean this can never be sped up further on any other part? Or is it only changed within this program?
It's stored in the machine, but you can always set up a program to reinitialize your variables for a particular part.
After years of watching this channel I have come to find out titan has only hired geniuses
Can the software be run on a desktop in a more ergonomic position, but also so it can be developed while the machine is doing another job?
Even better if there was simulator so you can watch what the machine would actually be doing before any material has to be run.
Looks like a good application for optimization algorithms/"AI" - although it seems surprising that the CAD software doesn't include that already - perhaps it's trading off speed for tool durability or probability of failure?
Yes totally agree. Was wondering about the same in my comment, coming from an IT background. Also the whole UI looks somewhat dated, can someone comment, is this state of the art?
@@stefan-bayer it's normal for cnc machines to run somewhat old looking software. Stuff needs to be 100 percent bug free or crashes will happen and they are costly and dangerous. We have machines from 2018 with ui that looks like windows 98
@@srck4035 I understand the point you are coming from.
I will argue the lack of startup made it this way because the R&D needed to start in the machining industry is very high so until now no real innovative startup has competed. But a well design UI is not prone to have more errors. The better UI just improves the operators error so this would go hand in hand normally if the industry leaders would not be that “ancient”.
But that’s just my impression
@@stefan-bayer just saying it takes ages to test the ui. Imagine one bit flip from. 0.1mm to 10mm. Crash.
Good input, although this would not be possible with EAR and ITAR parts as the part dimensions are national security. You would need a localized AI server that is ITAR controlled/not connected to the internet.
Nice, that’s how you use that thing!
I'm thinking formtool, get the EDM guys to make a carbide tool for all the OD work. The machine is awesome!!!!
Crazy damn engineering
You should show / explain the process of keeping a machine like this filled with material. Do you have down time every 20 minutes or whatever to load 8 more sticks of brass in?
Wow those are like davenport times😮
Donny is so epic. :D cool machine too..
I always enjoyed TB Deco. I have seen lots of people struggle with it.
i like TB deco its pretty easy to understand
This guy has the brain of a computer its awesome to see him think and show how milli seconds means serious time
My collegues dont give a shit about cycle time, they like to hang on their phone and walk around
Did he slide up to the camera on heelies? 🤣. My dawg!
I used to set up and run a Brown & Sharpe Automatic 2G Screw Machine .. Most of the parts I made were HIgh Speed Steel, punches. My goal was 300 parts a day average (including set ups) :)
"Boom!" is catching.
Your machining is my vision
I want to raise my factory and utube channel~!
10:43 Donnie Donald is Living on the edge
Curious what Titans of CNC Machining thinks of Shars Tool Company???? Nice videos as always. 🤙🏽
How might this fail if you pushed these timings to fast (and the software did not catch it and stop you)? Would it simply result in wasted parts that were not made to spec, or could it damage the (presumably exceedingly expensive) CNC machine you are running? In other words, what are the stakes here?
In this instance, i think running a spindle into the parts catcher is the most likely issue. That would be bad, could be very bad. A spindle for that machine might be 50k and take a week to replace, maybe more. Probably need a tool catcher, too.
The spindle hitting things, or things hitting the spindle can happen with all machines, and is always bad, and often expensive.
So is this considered a conversational machine then Donnie ? Looks a lot like it, never seen a machine where all the tool paths are running off off variables. This is a headache 😂but looks to make editing programs on the fly way faster.
No it’s not conversational. It outputs a template for you to add the cutting toolpaths. That’s all you typically have to add tho. It’s one of the easiest ways to do a 8 spindle in my opinion because all the staging is done for you. All of the cutoff operations were in there before I started. I only added like 10% of what you are seeing on the screen
Great animator!
Used to mentor newby's and these were with newbys setting the tools and writing the program. I would have them set tool change speed to 1/4 of norm until they were comfortable with there settings and proved out there program.
We only did short run parts and the average order was generally just several hours long.
The manager didn't like me telling them that so 100% tool changes it was and there were some spectacular crashes.
Crashing at 1/4 speed caused for less carnage but it wasn't my call heh heh.
used to do this 50 years ago with cam auto's
So this is basically MS Project for CNC machines, interesting!
Why is it running with TB deco and not with tisis?
its just what the multi-spindles run on
Id be happy with the income from recycling the chips coming off
Sry for asking what is a “Swiss Supervisor” or a “Swiss Machine”? I mean I know that Swiss means from Switzerland, but I never heard it in relation to these terms… thx for explaining!
This MF HEELY'd over during the transition! LMAO that is fantastic.
wont the tools dull quicker in theory too? for a machine like this would you change out every tooling at once or do some last longer than others
Tool wear isn't too big of a problem on brass parts, esp with carbide tooling. Some tools in the setup last longer than others. Generally related to stock removal.
Each tool has its own tool life count. Tool life can vary widely. Example ee have taps that are done at 300 and reamers that go 3000.
Material, feed rate, the tool material, the coolant, spindle speed, all have an effect on tool life.
Now we are machining 🥳
NINE channel? holy moly
yooo i like this Donald Danger Dude!
What is extremely weird: The fastest machines are still analog. Driven by cam disks and gears! o.o
I also didn't believe that at first, but these beasts are still made in a high tech plant in northern Italy (I've been there) and they run a lot of parts for the automotive industry. Sometimes with sub second cycle times.
Of course, they have other insane drawbacks like changeover times and modularity.
So how many test passes are needed to ensure a good finish with a given s&f per operation? Seems like that’s a complication not addressed 🤔
A lot of N-of-M checks, batching, binning, histograms, and extrapolation.
Don't get me wrong I love these vids, I just wish the intensity went down like 2 notches.
What’s the cam software that is used for this machine?
Tb deco you program by hand on the machine or your computer but the macros make it a breeze to jump into it
Would just increasing spindle revs speed up production?
At some speed there's a limit where you burn up the tools
And there's also a point where acceleration and deacceleration take longer than just holding a lower RPM cap.
@@dale0104 Specially when you're doing small parts, the rpm can get pretty high. The spool up and spool down times seem to take ages.
@@srck4035 But what a nice gif you could make of the machine running on full burnout speed, even if it crashes into 3 revolutions :D
Is this machine running bar stock or ground stock? Charles
Just regular stock
@@donniehinske Thanks, have a great week.
This is the kind of optimization that artificial intelligence systems could excel
especially with integration into an overall production line
i see the tornos program software hasn't updated from the 20/6 multideco's
Of course use metrics its more transparent and quicker to grasp and acknowledge as an machine human interface. But what your explainig is the process optimization which I think will be a process that will be taken over by AI in the very near future. What are the most effective operation process with the capabiltys given by the machine
Keep your arms still man!
Back in the 70s I ran a multi spindle chucker. No CNC or computer. Young people don’t realize that things were made without computers and made quite fast.
2:22 Is he wearing heelies?😂😂
exactly. I searched for others to find your comment via CMD+F of a 2 and a colon.
wtf? you're the only other person aside from me who's weirded out by this? lol.
What about tooling wear at the accelerated pace
can you post a cycle in slow motion video?
Definitely a faster setup than old schools wickman 6 spindle 😂
How much are you willing to invest for an automated optimization procedure?
This guy should ask for a raise
hello sir, Could you please guide me how i can join your team. i am a mechanical Enginner and also know Autocad And Solidworks.
Brilliant, hope the customer knows how long it takes to make lol
The best
Worker nightmares comes to live, 10sec cycle time 😂😂😂