History of the .40 S&W (You might be surprised!)
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- Many people think the .40 S&W rose simply out of the 1986 FBI shootout in Miami. They don't realize it had been worked on long before that.
Here’s the link to our previous 9 mm video: • The 9mm round's roller...
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i carry .40 and love it. And I love the people who say “.40 is dead”. Please do keep saying that nonsense because its driving those prices on down 😂.
Till ammo becomes scarce
Travis Davis point, but I’m doubtful that will happen. as we see with the .45 which has been woefully irrelevant since long before it was finally replaced with the mass adoption of what else the 9 mm. .45 ACP still exists today in the market much in part due to the popularity of the model 1911 platform. and its plentifully although it is the most expensive of the three primary pistol calibers. As for handguns .40 and .45 are kind of the same while the .45 seems to have less and less as time goes on. the Sig P320 and the FN FNX are the only two RECENT handguns ik of that still offer chambering the .45. but you do have a point right now I’m finding plenty of cheap 40 ammo at gun shows at about $12-$13 a box and that will soon dry up that’s why I’m getting while the going is good.
could not agee more!!!!
Kinda like 2ga back in the Obamas scare, couldn't get ammo for anything but 20ga was still packed on the self and half the price lol
tigger B me too 👍
Jeff was my friend and mentor for 36 years. Your history is very accurate. I saw nothing that differed from my recollection. I also followed the development of today's 40 through my 35 years as an LAPD Officer. Incidentally I am not one of those who believe that more powerful calibers are not more powerful. Well done sir.
lawrence mudgett thank for your feedback, sir!
My first pistol was a .40 S&W, and I still have it. It was lonely, so I had to buy several other different calibre pistols to keep it company. Pistol lives matter!
I’ve always thought that pistols thrive better when they have other of their kind around to keep them company. lol
40isgretround
My first pistol was a 40 as well and I don't regret it one bit
Amen, I got my 1995 USP .40 some play buddies in .45 ACP and 9mm :-) (Colt 1911 Mark IV Gold Cup and a Canik Elite SC)
Lmfao same exact story here bro....
I have carried the 40 s&w as a police officer here in Louisiana for more than a decade. I still love it.
@None of your Business 337 Why do you say such?? (The .40 is such a DEEPER penetrating round!)
@None of your Business 337 go look at Paul harells vid
@None of your Business 337 these are some bold claims.
@None of your Business 337 ur a pleb
sir no its not. that's why its going down hill. the new ammo in both 45 and 9 is better than the 40. you can find some loadings that may be better but its a tad at best. a 45 in 185 grain will do the same as the 40 or better. the 40 is hard on barrels, its like they didn't do their home work when designing. the fbi shootout bullshit hype was simply because those agents could not hot shit. like most LEO they didn't shoot enough to be efficient. before you jump on me, my brother in law is in LEO and he agrees.
This is the best video I have seen that provides facts and history of the 40. Usually it is just some idiot saying 40 sucks
I agree with you that this is an informational video, and your comment reminds me of one idiot I saw who screamed into the camera about how the 45 sucked. I figured he took time off from beating his wife to make the video, and I learned nothing from him, except to never watch him again.
John McNett agreed
Something I will never understand, you got these people who’ll load a shield, Glock 43, any of these subcompact single stack 9mm pistols with the hottest, heaviest loads of 9mm....but they’ll whine about 40 s&w out of a full size pistol like shattered their hand every time. I like 9, 40, and 45 because I choose the right tool for the job
I know its absurdly funny! Especailly when they talk about the 40 being a high pressure round. Its all internet parroting. The 9 and 40 are loaded to the exact same pressures.
Yes, It is funny how the guys that praise the 9 mm select ammo that negates its advantages with the exception of slightly higher capacity. Sometimes that selection is very hot +P or +P+ ammo. Others will select ammo still using 80s or 90s technology and expect 9mm to perform as well as 40 S&W according to the FBI.
I have the Springfield XDS in 40 S&W. Seems to me it shoots about as comfortable as a 9mm subcompacts and maybe more so than the +Ps. But I carry anything from a 380 to a 45. Just depends on where I'm going and how I'm dressed.
.40s&w doesn't kick as much as people with limp wrists complain. To me it feels like a 9mm.
I bought the .45 shield. It's got some recoil to it because of how light it is, but it does shoot pretty well
Massad Ayoob is the most knowledgeable man concerning stopping power actual data collected from actual shootings involving cops over a 50 year span; he says shot placement is the most important factor in stopping a threat.
Fantastic history, thanks !! I like my 9’s, I LOVE MY 40 !! 👍
Another nice history video! Poor 38 Super though: it should’ve been the real game changer for autoloaders. Ballistically impressive, high capacity, low recoil, and available from the early 1900s onwards.
Yep. That was another "FBI research" round. After seeing the 45s would be stopped by bootleggers' car doors, the 38 super was chosen to do that job. Not sure why it never took off but is still popular for competitiob
@TheFilipinoKnight Super 38 auto -1929 , prohibition agents used this round for its penetration , allegedly will go through both sides of the passenger compartment of a vehicle Happy Holidays
1911 pistols chambered in .38 Super are very popular in Mexico, because their laws make it illegal for civilians to own arms chambered in military calibers, which the .45acp is down there.
Case was too long. Made the grip a 2x4.
If you can when doing your caliber ballistic comparison do a Paul Harrell styled test. Those "meat targets" are surprisingly telling but only if your budget allows.
Or you could just look up a few Paul Harrell videos. He has already tested out most common calibers at this point and does a damn fine job of it.
Long live the 40!
The best commentary, history and analysis of the .40 that I have seen yet. Good job.
@@FirstLast-gv1zl what are you talking about?
@@FirstLast-gv1zl you can if you like, barney style, I deleted that comment about 5 minutes after posting, as I thought.. maybe I missed something in the vid... So I made a simple question for clarification. I did watch the vid again...heard a few misrepresentations of history and fact...but instead of taking back my original comment, I decided to see what you had to say. Perhaps you should do a better video, you are correct in all of your statements, as far as I can tell. I am familiar with powders and pressures, I reload...or did, been awhile..
Thanks for your comments, I do apologize for my first comment, I got out in 2000, created my first email as I was called "smith jac" from my first duty station, as we had 3 smiths in out plt. So my email became smithjacusmc@...and when ever i did anything from then on. Cpl Smith JAC, 2/7 wpns co, 81's plt. 0341...semper fi.
The FBI still mostly recruits accountants, lawyers and psychologists.
When I go to gatherings with the FBI, the Special Agents stand out, like infantry. Not many carry excess mass. Still, consider their mission. They are not tasked to trash their bodies the way elite soldiers are. Compared to the public, they are quite high speed, but they don’t fight wars and defeat armies.
Scott, you are cringeworthy. Please shut the fuck up.
They hire those because they need smart and analytical people. It is not common for FBI to get involved in shootouts, they mostly conclude their investigations behind their desks, like most cops do as well.
@@thedriver5462 Like most police detectives do but most police detectives worked years on the streets before they got there. Cops working road patrol make dozens of arrests for every single arrest a police detective or FBI agent does. I don't think thier choice to hire academics is necessarily bad based on their job description. It can comes as a disadvantage occasionally, when those rare situations happen that thrust them into a lethal confrontation. But it is what it is.
They definitely need academics but what they need to do is hire academics who are willing/interested to train with firearms or they need to force them to train harder. At this point, I think it is more about FBI leadership than anything else. If I am just a civilian ( accountant by the way) and I can shoot effectively Ruger SP101 357 Magnum or Shield 45, I don't see any reason why almost any FBI agent couldn't be able to do the same. But if there are no adequate training programs, that could be an issue.
*Love the 40S&W.*
@@RekzysTheTitan typical tough guy keyboard commando comment.
hkp 30ls I’m actually drunk. The 40 is a perfectly capable round. I just say random shit when I drink southern comfort
Switch to Buffalo Trace or even Maker's Mark and your posts will improve. Cheers!
Me too.
@Councilman Les Wynan congratulations
Great video! I knew of the history of the .40 S&W / 10 mm starting from the Miami- Dade FBI shoot out and forward. What I didn't know was all the previous information and history of the .40 caliber pre 1986! I had no idea that .40 G&A was around in the 70's and never heard of it. So I thought Smith and Winchester developed it, but in reality they improved on it! Very interesting. I was looking forward to this episode because I am a huge .40 and 10mm fan, love them.....even if the .40 is in a big decline.
Being a retired 1811 "Federal Agent" The FBI 1986 incident was a tactical error more so than a caliber one. However, lessons were learnt. I will tell you one thing that the FBI isn't to my knowledge as of 14 Oct 18 since the switch to 9mm agents are pumping more rounds into threats than they did with 40 caliber. See the problem in the 1986 shooting was the round failing to penetrate so the FBI set a protocol for the 9 mm or other bullets to be able to penetrate through various barriers something that the 40-caliber already does. The 40 penetrates windshield glass and especially bone so does the 45acp where it will break bone and go straight through. Modern 9mm ammo will penetrate but it does not have the momentum or energy in target or drag as much tissue as 40 and 45. Now IMO all bullets are lethal due to speed, mass, and bullet design and the 9mm needs speed behind it but do to the designs of certain ammunition the jackets would shred. What makes a 357 Magnum such a good man stopper? If you answered speed you are correct since the 9 mm is a .355 diameter bullet, design a 124 grain bullet that won't mushroom as much and is bonded and jack it up to 1300fps I would even settle for 1280fps you will see a difference.
I would not feel inadequate with a 9mm my primary is a 40 back up 9mm .380 .38spl and no I don't carry them all at the same time.
"design a 124 grain bullet that won't mushroom as much and is bonded and jack it up to 1300fps " so, a 357 Sig? just had to throw that in there. :-)
@@LYLEWOLD I think 357sig is a great cartridge it doesn't get to publicity that it should. Agencies using this round I'm not having to shoot so many times the bad thing is it's not in meads known to the general public.
Good comment. Very imformative.
@@therond.patron4959 It's expensive. I'll spend money on a good SD round, but not for practice. If you don't reload, niche cartridges are costly. I like the .327 Federal, which has the same problem.
The FBI Miami incident was a tragedy. The problem, the issue (my opinion), was extremely poor tactics and lack of/poor training of the agents. During the 80's FBI agents were not exactly first responders". I've watched the re-enactments that included participation with the surviving agents. After the investigation the FBI (management) had to put blame somewhere and they blamed the 115 gr Winchester Silvertip round, a GREAT 9 mm round. Within 2-3 years of the FBI's blaming the Winchester 9mm silvertip they were no longer available (another tragedy). I mean no disrespect to the involved Agents but it was their tactics and training, not a specific 9mm round that led to the tragedy. The Agents willingly decided to take on the 2 serious/dangerous crooks which was courageous action by all of them. The crooks had military training and were capable and aggressive.
I’m 60 and have been involved in firearms most of my life with my father as a drill Sgt. and me with 28 years as a law enforcement officer and most of that time as a trainer. I had been policing a few years when the Miami Shootout occurred. But I only thought I new the history of the .40! Great info. Subbed.
Great video.
I love the 40 has everything I need in a gun.
Very helpful information.
Thank you.
Good job Paul. I was taught and compeated with the Colt 1911 .45 ACP. And I thought it was the best. But I inherited a Browning High Power 9 MM from my dad, whom brought home from Germany after WW2. I have to come to like it very much as well. As you said, the weapon you us doesn't matter when you are in danger. What matters is the ability to protect yourself.
Jerry Guerra yes sir!
I will always love the .40 s&w no matter what the magazine-readers say. it's a good barrier beater, also the flat-nose jacket is a plus ;) ! Ever since the locals where i live all impulse-switched to 9mm to keep up with the cool kids, i notice .40 is always stocked on shelves and cheap! 9mm helped me out in a big way by making everyone forget about the awesome .40 . during the great panic of '08.......and the second one...and third....and others, the .40 was literally the only caliber that was always available on store shelves while everything else was wiped out.
NOT TO MENTION THEY ARE GREAT TO RELOAD. MY LOADS GET 1150 FPS WITH A 165 GRAIN TML FLAT NOSE. GREAT TARGET ROUNDS OUT OF MY SIG P-250 MEDIUM COMPACT.
Even at Walmart today, they have more 40 ammo than 9
I like .40 s&w
@MADx TITAN Simple physics just says that it is a better round, I've told several people this I'm a retired federal agent and one thing the FBI is not publicizing is that they are shooting people more times with 9 mm than they did 40. And that is a fact.
40 does better against barriers such as windshield glass and especially bone, where it will hit it and break it or go straight through.
Same I got a M&P40C
@MADx TITAN I don’t think the “Tech” industry (ammo wise ) are invested in 40S&W as they are in 9mm. Now if they were to invest more R&R with 40S&W I would think it would nearly eliminate 9mm. But I get the jist of what your saying and agree
40. Short & weak?
@@thebushbunker o ha ha very punny
I have had .40 SVE ( pre-HD, pre-SD)since 2007. ADORE IT! I've kept eye/ear out for info(TY 4 yours) ever since 2007. I'm intrigued by abundance of contradiction/ confusion/denial/bad nomenclature/etc.involved in the meandering path of evolution of the .40, going back to the black-powder name-flip of .38-40!! So many WTFs( Why a heavier gun for .38-40, than a .44-40?) Then, the sudden interest loss of the 1910(9.8mm) .40. And the constant maybe/maybe not since. Maybe, possibly, they have the perfect cal in hand, but can't argue in favor/and can't argue against, so they prefer to ignore it in a regular basis, hoping something else will show up!!😅😅😅
I remember the 40 G & A back when I was in middle school. Never did know where it came from. I read G & A almost daily back then.
This is awesome content Paul! Thanks for taking us to school. I really enjoyed the lesson on 40 caliber & I learned a lot. I had no idea this was a John Browning idea to begin with.
Willard Lentz Heck Yeah! Paul G. is definitely a top shelf guy just like Paul H. Both have much expertise in the field of firearms & I’ll always have the utmost respect for both.
Those that say the .40 is dead or useless apparently do not have very much gun knowledge.
I also ask them: pick which one to get shot with. Why do all of them immediately say 9mm? I thought they wanted the "shitty" one so they don't get hurt as badly! 😂
Then they go back to the range and whine about their Berettas malfunctioning after putting 50 rounds of +P ammo through them...
😅😂 Yeah, sure. Be a man and shoot a 10mm.
Cephas Martin I have the Glock 20sf gen3 but again the .40 is no slouch give the birth son of the 10mm a little credit it won’t hurt your manliness I promise.
@@6548ww The birth of the 40 S&W was the 10mm, not the other way around, sonny. The 40 S&W was only invented because FBI pussies couldn't handle the 10mm and they asked the ammo manufacturers to lighten the powder load. So you can truthfully say that the 40 S&W is a pussified 10mm. Sorry, sometimes the truth hurts.
I learned on a. 45acp, 1978. The. 40S&W is a very capable round and I use both, now days even the 9mm is ok with bullet construction what it is.
Credit should also be given to Elmer Keith for the .40cal development
Thanks for the video. I love learning this kind of history. I too like my .40's. I usually steer people towards Paul Harrell's 9 vs 40 video when I can. Im adding this video to my tool box.
Interesting. I had no idea its development started that far back. The way I'd heard it was the 10mm didn't exist until the FBI wanted a new round after that shootout and after adopting it they decided it was too powerful for their agents and they asked Smith and Wesson to develop a watered-down version for them.
Well said and presented...Thanks, I like the 40 S&W, and like you said the best caliber is the one that you're toting if GOD forbid you have to use it!
The 40 is a great round. The homeboys in South Central can keep their little 9mm. God bless John Moses Browning and Jeff Cooper.
Why it gotta b the homeboys n almost everyone carry’s 9 but I’m a homeboy from Texas n I carry a 45
The Luger pistol was originally chambered in .30 caliber. The European military wanted a bigger bullet. So Luger just stopped necking it down to .30. They just bored the barrel straight to get it to 9mm. At one point there were different 9mm cartridges like Styer or Largo in 9X23 mm.
I have a .40 S&W Glock 22 and I really like it, then I bought the big brother 10mm Glock 20 which I enjoy even more. But still, .40 S&W is a very decent and capable round and should not be underestimated.
I love the 40 cal its my favorite round and my edc in a glock 23 gen3! And remember its not all about what round is better its about shot placement.. You hit your THREAT in the forehead with a nice shot END OF STORY!!
Tupac was shot and killed with 40 caliber
@@brandonnevarez8417 Or waz a 40 with a 9 Barrel. I've heard that Story also.
Naw it was .40 sw ammo used when they did raids in Compton they found .40 ammo in one of the houses of baby lanes people's n documented it
naa dude you tripping I don't mean in a disrespectful way in a gun fight things happen so fast your senses are overloaded
the adrenalin rush is insane with all that and more in play its extremely hard to hit a small moving target at that point go for center mass better chance of success
@@brandonnevarez8417 EazyE had one lol
That was an excellent history lesson on the 40 and cleared up a lot of my misconceptions.
My dad was an MP during Korean War. My earliest memory around caliber was a 38 bounces off a windshield and a 45 goes on through.
Excellent presentation!! Learned a lot here and glad you didn't make the 1986 Miami-Dade County Shoot-out the pinnacle of the 10mm. I like both calibers and hold a special place in heart/safe for both .40 S&W, and .10mm, but I truly think the .357 Sig needs it's time to shine. The G31 was my introduction to the caliber and I've been a fan ever since. It's ballistics cannot be denied, but just like any other main stream caliber, it has it's application. At the end of the day, they'll all do their first and foremost jobs as far as protection.
I feel like the FBI knew that their training was inadequate but we're to lazy and didn't want to change that so they wanted to blame the round because it was easier to do than change up all of their training.
Excellent history lesson! Great video - the .40 G&A actually predates the 10mm auto. Many forget that. Thanks
I don't know why everyone (FBI, multiple state, county & city police, etc.) is, or has gone from the .40 cal. to the 9mm round. I have always thought that the .40 cal. was a very effective round. Being a Glock guy, I have the G-35, the G-22, the G-23 and the G-27. Each have their application, but they're all "man-stoppers". I use a 9mm for Steel Challenge because it keeps me on the same playing field as other competitors. So I pick up some .40 cal. police trade-ins on the cheap, and convert them to 9mm to compete with. But I still keep my original 40's rockin'. Great caliber; FBI messed up when they dropped it. Very interesting video. Thanks.
Actually, the .40 SW was modeled after the .41 AE ditto the .40 GA. Competition Shooters in Europe had developed the .41 AE for the High Power and Cooper liked its balastics and began to develop it into the GA and the 10mm.
The former Law Officer that trained me, Started me off on the .45 auto and .357 revolvers. Later when having to carry a 9mm I definitely felt "under gunned".
Today with the right ammo, the 9mm is at least acceptable as a defensive round. (Back in the day, we trained to put 2 that's only 2 shots in the body mass of the suspect)
Can you please make more of these kinds of video, like for .357 SIG
I think even pop Eimer worked up a wildcat 40 cal. the 38-40 was really a 40 cal, 40 grains of powder ,180 grain bullet at about 950fps. What the first 40sw rounds were. But now the FBI went back to the 9mm. Due to less recoil. Whats wrong with their agents working on hand and arm strength excersises to be able to handle the recoil?
I love the .40s&w but I spend a lot of time in the woods, and it's a versatile round.
slimjim,
"...BUT..."
I'd change to "and", or even delete completely. ☆
THANK YOU for this wealth of knowledge! You continue to be one of the best informed people on CZcams. (I enjoy shooting my G22 and find that it's very smooth, low recoil. I'd shoot .40 more often if I could afford it.)
Buy the tools and reload for it.
@@four4bman979 , perhaps one day!
Thank you. I found this information very informative and interesting. I have had a CCW since 1996 and I never leave home without it. My EDC for about the last 10 years or so has been the G23 in .40 S&W. I love this gun and caliber! However, I recently turned 67 and I'm finding the recoil is hurting my wrists more & more. I am looking into the different caliber barrels (9mm and 357sig) that will suit my needs for self defense.
This is a great series of videos, thank for doing them. I appreciate getting the history of how the round came around and not just seeing it fired into cinder blocks and such. I know the 10mm has gotten a lot more airplay lately, so, would be good to see it as well as the 9, 40 and 45 if it is not to late to include the 10mm. Also, you hear about the mythical 500ft/lbs of energy required to stop an assailant. I know you can get there or closer with different combinations of bullet weight and propellent, so, would be good to know what those options are and how they compare, for example would it be better to go with a 165 grain +P 40SW vs a 230 grain 45ACP. Just some thoughts.
I love my .40 I carry it everyday. I don't know why people don't like it or call it "dead"
Eventually, you'll realize the majority of people are Not intelligent... ☆
The Centimeter Cartridge was experimented with by IPSC shooters in 1987 as a way to make major with a little less pressure than the .38 Super required. It was very similar to the later .40 S&W. It was based on a cut-down 10mm case so it still used the large pistol primers.
I kind of want a full size .40 again
If you go used, there are some great deals on Police trade-in's.....
Outstanding. Great presentation. For the record, I learned a few facts I did not know. You did your homework. Appreciate the platform & info.
Great content, well presented. Only problem, now I want something chambered in 10mm.
Joefoam7 🤣
I love my G20sf. It's one hell of a woods gun if you want something with more capacity than a .357 revolver
I love the .40 S&W, I carry a Glock 23. In my opinion I think the .40S&W is the perfect balance between speed and stopping power.
Adalberto Santiago I agree sir
The .40 G&A got its name because both Whit Collins and Jeff Cooper were on Guns & Ammo's editorial staff at the time. The gunsmith who converted the BHP for Collins was John French. Note that French would later become one of the plankholders at S&W's Performance Center, along with Paul Liebenberg, who had been building pistols chambered for Collins' mid-1980s update of the .40 G&A wildcat dubbed the Centimeter. S&W employee and competitive shooter Tommy Campbell had been friends with Liebenberg, and had even paid for some Centimeter conversions out of his own pocket so he could lobby for its adoption. Oddly enough, Campbell had been playing with the general concept for roughly a decade. Around 1979, Campbell had convinced S&W engineers Dick Baker and Norm Spencer to cobble together a prototype Model 659 chambered for a rebated rim wildcat based on cut-down .41 Magnum brass, ending up with a rough equivalent of what Action Arms and IMI would later introduce as the .41 Action Express.
That's all I roll with. Walther p99 and Walther PPS, both 40 cal. Just got the kid a Walther P22 for his birthday and took him to the range. He loved it and already wants to go back for more.
Just got a .40 cal. S&W MP Yesterday. Haven't shot it yet. Planning to do some practice work with it in a few days. Very informative information here about the .40 cal.
What made the .40 a success so quickly was that the Calif Highway Patrol adopted it right from the start. A big agency with thousands of officers. A very effective pistol round then and now.
Was A Cop from 1986 to 2011 in a 600 person Department and involved in transition from S/W Mod 64 Revolver to S/W 10mm, but finally Glock 22 .40 Cal in 1991. The main reason 10 mm Full power was not adopted was because 10 mm over penetrated 68 percent of the time. Meaning goes through bad guy and hit bystander, more likely than not, with massive lawsuit potential. .40 cal was 48 percent, meaning less likely than not, saving you in a lawsuit. Retired I now carry a Glock 20C or 29 10mm with Underwood 155 grain at 1500 fps...
Billy B so your department determined the 10mm had the potential for over penetration and the .40 S&W was better but you use the 10mm? I’m confused
Mike Sideburns. My Department was worried more about lawsuits from over penetration than stopping power.They Choose .40S/W. And most Law enforcement never adopted the 10mm and switched from .38sp revolvers to .40 S/W in the 1990's. I am retired, have a WI CCW permit and carry 10mm and occasionally a 6in S/W 629 .44 Mag because i can. I don't care about over penetration lawsuits. Remember the 3 rules 1. target acquisition 2. target identification 3. target isolation
Your video was well done. Been debating recently, went to gun range shot both 9mm/40s&w thru glocks- decided on 40s&w/Glock 23. Also a veteran and huge fan of 45acp :)
do not worry about being politically correct stay the way you are
if not being politically correct upsets the snowflakes then they need to do what real Americans do grow balls build a bridge and get the hell over it
cia hires anyone with a deathwish and speaks a second language fluently
@C R IDIOT!!!
As someone who has always shot more accurate with the 40 and never noticed any difference in recoil. I enjoyed your vid allot.
Your video was very informative and it for me a trip down memory lane. Just one thing when S&W designed the case for the 40 S&W it was designed with a internal taper in the case. That is why the heaviest bullet in the 40 S&W is a 180 Gr. The 10MM on the other hand doesn’t have a internal taper, thus it can take up to a 200 Gr bullet.
After all the stories I've heard about the SW 40 This has never been mentioned. Thank you.
I really enjoy the 40 Smith & Wesson history story I'm not taking Tai Chi so this is the best way for me to decompress from a long day while I feed my toddler... I really enjoy it I'm using the Barnes Tac round lighter recoil which I have had great luck with.
I like Cooper's 10mm it is a force to be reckoned with it is fast accurate and heavy hitter. Granted the felt recoil is more prevalent but it is like anything else if you train with it and learn it, it's manageable. I understand the .40 S&W and its purpose and it is a nice round but I still like the 10mm more. A 10mm in my opinion is one of the best universal rounds, it doesn't matter what you are hunting it will get the job done. Now it could be argued that the DE .44mag would be a more powerful option in an autoloader or even a DE 50 but neither of those guns are suitable for concealed carry due to frame size.
Before the UK banned ownership of pistols, my wife and I shot in ipsc comps. I used the fore runner of the Tangfoglio Witness. My wife used a Browning Hi Power both in 41ae. I reloaded and cast bullets as only factory ammo available was Samson at huge expense. 42 ae. Was essentially a .40 case with a 9mm rim. It was starting to gain traction as it easily made major and in a Hi Power you got 11+1. Most major cal. pistols then were 1911 derived with 7/8 round mags. .40 cal killed 41 ae. A shame as simple barrel change was all you needed to shoot a major calibre of 9mms para.
Infomative, clear,well spoken . No nonsense. Thanks
I have to say I went into this video thinking I wouldn’t learn anything I didn’t already know. Turns out I did. Thank you sir. You have gained another subscriber.
That Guy very much appreciated, sir!
Please don't say the FBI had anything to do with the actual development of the .40. I love your videos and live sessions, but the person who developed the .40 S&W was Ed Hobbie, a sub contractor for S&W from South Deerfield, MA. Sadly, he passed away last year. I had the pleasure to know him even back when he made the first prototype pistols, which he retained. I'm happy that I got to shoot them and have pictures of the two original prototypes, including his full size that evolved into the 4006 and what he called the "Original Shorty Forty", which was a single stack, compact, about the same size as the pre-TSW 4013.
If you do a search, he also designed moulds for Hensley and Gibbs, including some for the .40 S&W.
9mmARman I actually don’t say that. I look back as far as browning and then Collins and Cooper. Thanks! Good info.
Yes, you did. 10:20
Wayne B they didn’t create it, but they absolutely had SOMETHING to do with it. You don’t have to like it, but it is a part of history. That’s not exactly news either. Common knowledge.
My dad knew him …. S&w paid him for stealing his patent i was told
Who remembers the days of the old "hot rodders" in ammo manufacturing?
I'm an "OLD SCHOOL" shooter who remembers the days BEFORE the "wussification" of modern ammo. I remember when...
- The 230gr .45 ACP WOULD hit 950fps from a 5" barrel.
- The 180gr 10mm Auto would hit 1400fps from a 5" barrel.
- The 125gr (yes, 125 grain NOT 124gr) .357 SIG would hit 1400fps from a 4" barrel.
- The 115gr 9mm +P+ would hit 1400fps from a 4" barrel.
- The 110gr .38 Special "Treasury Load" would hit 1050fps from a 2" barrel and 1140fps from a 4" bull barrel.
Back in those days, the ammo was HOT.
Even though I own A 9mm Shield I still love the 40s/w. Glock, S/W, Sig, H/K. The round works. A hits harder. No wonder the local police, the sheriffs department and the state police carry the Glock G22,23,27.
Great video, sir. I’m a huge .40 fan. Carry one daily on duty and it’s performed well. I alternate between a Glock 43 9mm off duty or the Glock 23 .40.
To anyone wanting to convert metric to inch divide by 25.4 that will put you in the ballpark for inch, for inch to metric multiply instead and again you'll be in the ballpark.
Thank you for an informative video.thank you for mentioning the little known 38 40 round.
Very enjoyable presentation of the history. Thanks!
The 9mm cartridge wasn't the fault of the lack of penetration, but the projectile itself. This is where we get our penetration standards. 9mm now will do just well as the 40 S&W. With that said, I love me my 10mm and find it superior to the 9mm, 40 S&W, and the 45 ACP.
Paul for me personally I love the 10mm, great video
LUIS HERRERA I’m a big fan of the true 10mm as well
not surprised. you went farther back in the history, which was appriciated, but its the same story, a watered down 10mm in a smaller package.
This is a super informative history with some really interesting people commenting. Even though I sold all my .40s, I still like the idea of a heavier bullet.
I have Glock's in 9mm, 357 Sig, 40 S&W (just a barrel swap for these two) and a 1911 in 45 ACP. Although I mainly carry the 9's most of the time, I wouldn't get rid of any of them.
The semi-rimmed .41 ACP prototype cartridge and its rimless cousins - the 9.8mm Colt and the 9.65mm FN, were derived from the .41 Long Colt cartridge case. Thus, their projectiles were closer to 0.386". The 9.65mm FN was only chambered in FN's prototype variants of the scaled-down Colt M1911, dubbed the Grand Browning. Work on the Grand Rendement did not start until after the First World War ended. It was always meant to be chambered 9x19mm, per the French military requirement. Frankly, Whit Collins was terribly misinformed in this regard. The Grand Rendement evolved into the Grand Puissance after John Browning's death.
Love my .40’s and won’t be changing anytime soon because it’s comfortable for me to shoot
It’s all about matching the gun to the shooter so we can practice and be ready / confident if and when we truly need to use our 2nd amendment right
Great informative video. Thanks for the history lesson
I’ve contemplated the 10mm and maybe some day I’ll “pull the trigger”
Well done video
Pretty good discussion of the history of the 40 S&W. Couple of points, though. ..... Black powder DOES have "enough power" to function a semiautomatic. The problem is, and always has been, black powder fouling. It doesn't do much good to have a gun that will stop functioning due to fouling buildup before you finish the first magazine.
Jeff Cooper's parameters for the 10mm was a 200 grain bullet at 1200 - 1250 fps (not the 180 grain bullet at 1050 that you mentioned)(that part came from the FBI).
Very good summary of Cooper, Witt, and G&A, and the development of that particular 40 caliber round. Yes to all of that.
When the FBI adopted the 10mm, and quickly determined it was "too much" for the rank and file, they did, as you mentioned, download it - but they didn't cut the case back. It was when the FBI published their performance parameters that S&W saw that they could meet those parameters with their 9mm frame. And they came up with the cartridge because of the work of Cooper, Witt, and G&A as you covered well, and because of the new performance parameters from the FBI which, interestingly, mirrored the work of Cooper and Witt on the belted 40.
Although the FBI adopted the 10mm for less than a year, that adoption saved the 10mm and gave us the 40 S&W. All good things to my thinking.
Doesn't Chang the fact that 40 cal is built on a 9mm frame. The gun beats it self apart.
Then the 45 GAP arrived. Great stopping power but the recoil is more of a push than a sharp jump. Qualification scores soared, especially among female and smaller statue officers!
I OWNED AN OFFICERS MODEL .45 GAP BACK IN THE DAY. IT WAS A REALLY COOL GUN BUT WHEN I REALIZED IT WASN'T GOING TO TAKE OFF PASSED IT ON.
I'm not a 40sw guy, but the video is great, learned a few things too. Thanks
preacherman85379 thank you!
I remember this well. The Miami shootout and the FBI's subsequent adoption and rejection of the 10mm is how the .40 S&W was born. I've always thought of the .40 S&W and 10mm like the .38 Special and 357 Magnum. One is effective, but the other is a man stopper.
I am a fan and love, and I mean love the education that you give. I still wish that you and Paul Harrel would do some collaborative work together.
Someone in a comment section. Stated that the .40 was the round nobody asked for. Please find him and tell him he was a mistake his parents didn't ask for.
Thank you !! For your videos ... I like the 9 MM 9MM GUN ( SILVER ONE ).......
I have 2 .40 G&A hi power prototypes, my dad bought them from a collector in Arizona about 1988 .. Also hav 3 full boxes of G&A ammo
9mm fanboys keep bashing and calling this a useless caliber. I have this to say: most of the .40 handguns can be easily converted to 9mm AND some can fire +P loads while exclusively designed 9mms can't always do this. Also, .40 is easy to find because everyone else is using up/buying out all the 9mm ammo. And finally, animal control officers say .40 is VERY effective at stopping dangerous animals, requiring only 2 shots while 9mm tends to require 3-4 shots. Oh, and with 9mm prices constantly climbing, it's funny that .40 is becoming far more affordable too.
I'm not really fond of the .40, but I really like the .357 Sig barrel I have for it.
I’m still in love with the 45acp
The original 40 S&W cases were made as thin as possible to create maximum internal capacity. Then Glock made some maximum size barrel chambers with no support above the feed ramps. This started to cause some 40 S&W cases made by Federal Ammunition to fail when fired. Federal recalled the ammunition and developed thicker 40 S&W cartridge cases. The other American ammunition companies didn't want to risk failures with their 40 S&W ammunition and also developed thicker cases. The Federal Ammunition 40 S&W cases remain some of the strongest 40 S&W cases now made though. Some published load data was developed with the older, larger capacity cases, so it is best to compare load data to see which has the lighter loads for the thicker, smaller capacity cases. Some load data has not been updated for certain powders, even in current load guides. Using load data for some of the newer powders should be safest.
I doubt many people know about the Colt 9.8mm pistol. I've only read one article on it in the last 30 years. I've always longed for a "375" revolver and pistol for self-defense.
I was looking for your ballistic gel testing video and I don't see it. Did I miss it or did you not do the video?
I got a Glock22 right away and ran thousands of rounds through it at various shoot schools and competitions. Had one failure very early in my ownership where the extractor blew off and the slide cracked. Glock hadn't seen many of these failures so I sent it to them and they repaired it and sent it back free of charge. The barrel still has lots of life left even though it's no longer my go to. I wont say I replaced it with my M&P40, but it fits my hands better so it's what I switched to. 40SW is a little harder to find that 9mm or 45ACP, but its not rare and it will be along for quite awhile I'm sure
Pretty good until you got to the 10mm lite part, I was a police officer when this all shook down so as I remember it.... the FBI did water down the 10mm but didnt design the 40sw case. That was, hold on to your hat, Smith and Wesson you see when the FBI confronted Smith and wesson with their problem it was not only recoil of the round but the 10mm required at the time a large frame firearm.
Smith and wesson worked with Winchester to design a shorter round that would give the ballistics of the 10mm lite but also fit into 9mm platforms., then the fun started. You see when you throw a bigger cartridge into a smaller platform something has to give its basic physics, in order to put that much performance in those smaller guns the cartridge had to run at a higher pressure than say a 45acp so basically your taking a big high pressure round and firing it out of a 9mm handgun. Manufacturers worked out the bugs within a few years Browning chambered the hipower in 40 with a heavier slide and recoil spring plus went to a cast frame instead of the forged, smith and wesson beefed up their 59 series sig had early cracked slides in their 229 until they went to a one piece stainless slide. But all in all the 40 s and w was a great success with pretty good street cred. I was late to jump on 40 bandwagon I carried a 9mm hipower and never felt undergunned, even with those federal 9BPLE rounds.
Thanks for the feedback! 👊🏻💥🇺🇸