Rivian R1S 10% EV Road Trip Challenge! You Can Go This Far After A 15min Charge (Gen 1 Dual Max 21")
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- čas přidán 11. 07. 2024
- Kyle runs one of the last Rivian Gen 1 R1S Dual Motor Max Packs through our typical 10% EV road trip challenge where we DC Fast Charge the vehicles for 15 minutes starting at 10% SoC and then drive 80mph in a loop style drive.
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#rivian #r1s #ev - Auta a dopravní prostředky
you should really call this the 15 min challenge as that amount of time you spend charging.
I used to think this and made the same comment. And I still don’t like the 10% part. But I think they’re right to call it the “road trip challenge” and then 10% is just a parameter of the challenge. Obviously it matters A TON for charging what SoC you arrive with. And on a road trip this is how you will want to arrive at chargers along the way to hit the best part of the charge curve. So… “Road Trip Challenge” it is!
Same as "Race to Vegas in reverse", just call it "Race from Vegas" and be done with it.
@@stevedrawdy2532 love this! And I can't wait to watch it. The human error on the way to Vegas in the EV9 was real.
@@stevedrawdy2532you mean they're not going to drive back from Vegas entirely in reverse?
This has been one of the most liked comment on every single video since the first challenge.
And this ladies and germs is why i say 800V or bust! 17 mins to acquire 48kwh of electricity in my IONIQ6 last night!
they could also do what gmc did with the hummer and the silverado, 400 volt battery but still could charge at 800 volts
My personal best has been 50KW in 15 minutes. The E-GMP architecture cars are charging beasts.
Didn’t this Rivian do roughly the same? 45 kWh in 15 minutes. Problem is, the Rivian is much less efficient.
@@GraysonCarr I was impressed with how well it charged there in that short session.
@AlexBerman1 Just checked last charge & I got 44kWh on my last MY charge at a V3 station in 17 mins and 54 kWh with my MX a year ago. 800V does have advantages but more important is the manufacturer & chargepoint making it work right. I'm repeatedly shocked that more companies can't duplicate Tesla's success when it's been there to copy for years. So sure, work towards 800V but making reliable chargers, cars, & software will always be more important.
These 10% challenges are some of the best data and tests we could get. Need a summer and a winter run for each.
To me it seems a bit arbitrary that you would shut down at 15 minutes. We just saw the charging curve ramping up for the last couple of minutes so while Rivian may underperform based on 15, it may over perform if it was tested for 30 minutes. Kyle should have posted the 0 to 100 charge graph to determine what the sweet spot is.
To me it seems a bit arbitrary that you would shut down at 15 minutes. We just saw the charging curve ramping up for the last couple of minutes so while Rivian may underperform based on 15, it may over perform if it was tested for 30 minutes or more. Kyle should have posted the 0 to 100 charge graph to determine what the sweet spot is.
R1S should have better aerodynamics than the R1T.
DO GEN 2
Thanks Kyle, super helpful as always. Very interesting your comments on thermal mgmt differences between lg and max.
Just finished a 3000km Rd trip towing our 14ft trailer.
Stops were part of the vacation and try to enjoy meeting people at the chargers.
Actually, some of the more engaging social opportunities I've had in a long while!
Regardless of what you call it this challenge is brilliantly designed. Super smart.
The nice thing with the Max pack is you would have driven for four and a half hours and gotten around 350 miles before pulling in at 10%. It is nice to know that on a 15 minute break you could easily get another hour of driving.
I would love you to do this challenge on the new Ford F150 Lightening Flash edition with the new heat pump more efficient AC to aid in battery preconditioning and improved charging and now that Ford has now finally introduced Charging KW rate on the front dash why not!!
Yeah this jives with what we've seen with our R1T DM Max, 200KW to 30%, then waffling to 50% going up and down doing some sort of perhaps thermal throttling, and then it starts tapering off. Not every vehicle can be perfect in every way, and oh the Rivian is so very very good in so many of the others than charging and efficiency!
Great test, thank you!
A rolling sheet with details on each test like car make and model and trim and wheels, conditions, miles, efficiency, cost at national average at that charging network, etc would be great for us EV nerds!
Damn these Gen1 videos! We want Gen2 tests, buy RJ some sweet bespoke sneakers and maybe he'll let you borrow one.
Rivian at the vehicle return: "4000 miles in a few weeks, were you ever NOT driving?"
You should link the competing vehicles’ test in the description. I am cross-shopping the Model X and the R1S, so I would have jumped straight into the Model X test if you made the link handy.
I really do love this info. It is a nearly perfect metric for road tripping. I know it would be impossible to do this since you already have a ton of data, but I have never done an average of 80 mph on a road trip. I've only ever seen an 80 mph speed limit sign once in my life. The highest I see on all my road trips is 70 mph (mostly east coast and Appalachia driving). So to me, a 70 mph speed would be better info. Some cars perform much better at 80 mph than others, so this skews to them. But still, getting this data at 80 mph and simply seeing how much energy you can get from a 15 minute charge at 10% is amazing data. Knowing the R1S can get 45 kwh in 15 minutes is really good data. Like you said, it would be awesome if Rivian efficiency could match the Model X or the EQS (is the Rivian the least efficient 7 passenger out there? Not a ton of competition in that segment), it would be a true road trip monster.
To me, for example, knowing the Ioniq 6 can get 45 kwh as well means my EV6 will get about the same. On our last 800 mile road trip, we averaged 3.7 mi/kwh. So super easy to calculate we can do ~165 miles in a 15 minute charge at our speed. Which is pretty accurate, our charging stops are usually 11 minutes every 2 hours, I can't drive further an 2 hours without needing a bio break haha.
Yeah the 80MPH thing makes sense in the big empty Western states that are all just pockets of people connected by highways (mostly Interstate).
Really want a menu like this 18:03 in my Tesla without having to go into service mode. Showing motor temps / battery temps, showing how much power and which motor generates / moves the car etc.
~ $16 for 87 miles. YIKES!
I recently did a 5,000 mile trip through Montana and Western Canada on our Quad Gen 1 R1T. I did a total of 34 charging stops. Some were at a very slow 25kw DC charger and a couple at level 2 chargers. I mostly charge to 85% SOC due to the uncertainties of traveling in unknown places. I did use an A2Z adapter to charge in Tesla Superchargers. The average charge time was 47 min 1 sec. If I subtract the multiple times I had to charge in the 25 kW charger (nothing else available for 100 miles) and the Level 2 charge sections the average charge time 38 min 19 sec. This was better than I expected.
I’ve got a 2020 Chevy Bolt with DC charging you can use for the Bolt 10% challenge. Should be funny. (Yes I live in Colorado)
Love your 10% challenge videos! Too bad you didn't have enough time to swap these tires to your loaner to do a large pack test w/o the all terrain tires.
I really liked the comparison at the end to the tesla model x and y. And I came on here to say, “you get what you pay for.” Then I found that model x’s have gone down in price! You can get one for 65k, wow.
Was I the only one constantly annoyed that the door was being kept open while charging?
Great journalism Kyle. Always pushing EVs to do better. Seems like Porsche listens. I would love to understand the progress in energy density and why we don’t see that progress in our EVs. Like best example is model S used to go up in Battery size every year. But the last 5 years seems to stay the same. I thought energy density was increasing every year?
They are. Look at the Ioniq series for example. Part of it I think is that we have seen a move to a lot of manufacturers using LFP batteries. Since they are as energy dense they kind of dilute the progress made. Not that LFP batteries are a bad thing, they should be used in lower end and medium end vehicles that don't have the same sort of charge and discharge requirements. They are also more usable for the average everyday person since you can actually charge to 100% every night. It helps offset the lower energy density.
Another interesting result from the "15 Minute Charge Test" 😉
Whoa, whoa whoa! What did he just do at 9:45? Why didn’t I know about this until now? I’ve watched literally hundreds of Rivian videos from the top EV influencer and never seen this. Is this a special “Kyle” feature Rivian gave him? I’ll need to check! I love the nerdy screens!
Really waiting until Rivian / Tesla or other car makers bring a Car with a 140 kWh battery and 800 Volt system like Ioniq 5 / Porsche Taycan. That would be perfekt charging a battery that big in short time full.
This is the near perfect metric to measure EVs by for Roadtripping. As someone who uses an EV for road trips, this is the most important metric. This will either make charging an EV while roadtripping barely noticeable or very noticeable to the point you don’t want to use it.
I don’t charge like this nor do I drive like this. The number I look at more than anything else is efficiency. I just drove my R1S from Golden to Lake City and around on the loop roads in Lake City. Used the Rivian charger in Salida while having lunch on the way there and on the way back. At the end of day in Lake City would plug into the free Rivian Waypoint and add 10 to 20 kWh while at the local brewpub or restaurant. Total trip was 735 miles, burned 258 kWh for an efficiency 2.86 m/kwh. Left Lake City with 300 miles on the battery, arrived in Salida with 165 miles on the battery (SoC=46%). Could have made it home without charging, but did anyway.
Did Rivian improve the battery cooling system with the plate and sandwich design on Gen 2?
My favorite metric.
Really do think 15 minute challenge is a better name.
If you tap the miles left it will give you option to show both I think. At least my Gen 2 does.
You need to leave the rear vents on as kids would be in the back more than likely and remember to close the driver door after it starts charging.
Need to test the Hummer 3x range. Website says 381 - prove it!
Huh. I should have recorded more, but I saw 215-219kW pretty consistently on my road trip across the West earlier this year with my Max pack. Looks like I need to go out and record sometime here.
Do the Ioniq 5 next, please! EGMP vehicles are roadtrip vehicles, through and through
I'm curious if you would have set the max charge to a lower number if the system would have adjusted the thermals so you would have got a better 15-minute charge. Probably not but might be worth testing.
You're onto something good, keep it rolling
Hi Kyle, I've been watching your range trip videos for a long time. I think this test needs to be expanded a bit to truly capture the "road trip" experience. Three factors are at play-- range, efficiency, and charging speed(with emphasis on the curve). The 10% test is great for efficiency and charging speed (esp down low) but doesn't take into account range of the vehicle. For example, an Ioniq 5 awd may charge very well and do well in the 10% challenge, but if I compared it to say a Mach E in a real world trip they would be closer in performance as I would have to stop at 227mi for my initial stop in the hyundai..the Mach E I could go 285mi on the initial charge. That's about 60mi further down the road. So yes..the Ioniq 5 charges much faster, but the roadtrips are hampered by battery size. (we see this play out on the Vegas trips). So I would suggest you start with a 70mph range test, then when empty start the 10% challenge. Add the numbers together to get a true handle on how the EV would road trip. I would also suggest 70mph or 75mph instead of 80. Very few people on the east coast road trip at 80mph.
It's an off road vehicle. If you want to compare to a Tesla better a cybertruck. I'm glad I have a large pack. Good video.
Dang, the handshake & ramp are still sooo slow. My Teslas are at 250kW before this even starts charging!
Correct. This is still going to be an annoying problem down the line.
Crossing fingers for gen 2. This really does need to be better. Hopefully there is better thermal management on the new one but nothing that I’ve seen indicates that. That being said the gen 2 lfp might be the sweet spot. This really should be well over 100 miles in 15 minutes more around 120 mile in that time.
Given the results we saw in race to Vegas, I wonder if you’d get a better charge from a, EA “150KW” charger than the Rivian one which seems to overheat too quickly.
Oh in video you use charging station with supper charge of rivian. i think only testla have charging station everywhere. You should test rivian car with charging of other brand 😊
just wondering what the result would've been if they used the usual charging spot at kum n go and not the rivian charger
I wonder if the surging was when the ac compressor was turned off on and off?
Would love to see a hummer EV test, suv.
For me this is would be better to do as 20-25mins. Because the only reason that people do such short charges is because of a bad charge curve. This rewards the cars that charge fast then fall on their face. I don’t care if a car can charge at 215kw at 5mins if it is down to 80kw at 17mins. A good road tripping car has a decent initial speed, but more importantly a flat drop after the initial surge. That is the difference between 20-25mins going from 10-75% and 40-45mins. In the real world road trips you need 150-210miles of range after charge to do a 80mph and not worry about things like headwinds and minutely planning every stop with zero buffer
For the $18 spent charging, my daily driver Highlander Hybrid with similar size and load capacity would go 160 miles at 80mph, followed by an additional 320 miles before a 5 minute refuel at $54.
The Rivian retails for more than twice as much and would need six charging stops at $108 and 90 minutes for the same performance results.
So how is this more efficient?
The naming of this test does everyone a disservice, especially people new to the EV world. "15 min plug in distance challenge" would clarify almost everything.
These videos are going to go super viral in a few years as a lot more people look at EVs. I’d suggest making 10 minute versions of these videos highlighting the important stuff in preparation for the masses when they’re ready.
You should do a range test at 80 MPH and say 65 MPH.
On a recent trip to Tahoe my Gen1 R1S large pack with 21" wheels did 45kwh and around 106 miles added in 17 minutes at the Truckee RAN station. For me thats totally good for a road trip. I had time to plug in, use the bathroom at a coffee shop and get a drink. If I started that trip with 351 miles i would probably need a 15 minute break after 3-5 hours of driving anyways. These tests are great for sure but are also limited because you are only showing a single session. TO really make sense you'd need to do multiple tests to get an average and I'm not sure if you said you did that or not on each model. For example if my one session added 45kwh in a 17m stop I'd argue thats great, but if the next 5 only added half that for whatever reason I now can't assume every stop will be 100m/hour added. etc etc
I think the problem is when you need to have 3+ charging sessions a day. Thermals will limit your charging significantly, adding 25-30% time to your trip.
@@polzovotelso the only real way to test road-trip with a car is to basically drive 500-800 miles in a day. A full 8-12 hours which is a real all day road trip for most.
@@JoeSimonsen 100% agree. Doing this next month :)
@@polzovotelyeah I’m taking a solid road trip with the rivian in September. Should be fun!
*Puts climate on auto, leaves the door open the WHOLE DAMN TIME*. For a vehicle that has thermal issues, you're not exactly testing it like an actual owner would charge there Kyle.
He's doing that to drain the battery faster to 10
look like there is alittle windy there
Yikes! Usually my Rivian R1S gen1 with a large pack holds >212kW until 40% then drops to 200kW until 50% and then tapers off to ~180kW. Surprised to see how inconsistent the Max pack is
18:29 What was this sound?
20:30 - I haven't seen many degraded charging instances, even when I went on a multi-thousand mile towing trip last year. In some areas, I'd be charging (with preconditioning) about once an hour to 90 minutes, and would still see 200+kW through 30% no problem. (In my quad-motor Large pack.) Only a couple charge sessions in 95+ degree (F) did I see vehicle-degraded. (I also had a few terrible EA stations that the degraded charge performance was almost certainly the EA station.)
Yea I’m not getting those numbers after 3 roadtrips in 2 months in the south. Kyle’s’ last two Rivian videos I’ve seen also show derating. The thermals just blow unfortunately.
Your doggos definitely aren't Chihuahua mixes. If I tried setting climate to 68 F, I'd be missing some fingers.
.. Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste .. 🙏🏻 😊 ✌ ☮ ❤ 🕊
How to get the app you use on the screen
Who knows how Rivians perform in cold winters? Without heat pump, heating might be much less efficient than cooling.
Is this 2015 model ?
Don’t you really want to compare total miles driven on a road trip - full charge down to 10% then charge for 15 then drive?
That's really only applicable to the first leg of the trip. As soon as you have to charge a second time, you're in the scenario presented by this test.
@@iamnidsure but the initial leg range plays a part in how many times you need to stop. Also if you are going far you charge longer than 15 mins
5:13 Kyle you already know what to expect. 🤦♂️ The R1 isn’t holding a high charge rate for a long time. You have said that yourself in multiple Rivian videos.
It’s all about the aero . Being egg shaped gets you better range but then you are in an egg shaped bloated car whereas this is an actual boxy SUV.
They're boxy, but they're good?
@@777Outrigger well you can technically fit more in a boxy SUV , plus most Americans prefer boxy SUV’s . Plus these are actual Sports Utility vehicles which can off-road . So yeah I would say Good
You can have boxy or you can have eggy with 40% more range. You can't have both.
@@Rx100Vx Just a little joking around. It's a line about Volvos from a movie. ... If you need or want speed on a road trip, then buy the Model X. If you need cargo space, and speed is not a priority, then buy the R1S. Both SUVs have much to commend them.
.... I used to love Volvo boxy back in the day, but not really anymore.
@@777Outrigger cool . Cheers
Handshake time should count in the 10 minutes.
So 15 minutes charging for one hour of driving. It's interesting info but I'm not sure I could tolerate stopping every hour. I think for my sanity I will prefer to drive 4 hours, stop for lunch and then listen to the Karens complain because I deep charged for another long driving stretch. I won't charge to 80%. I'll charge until lunch is over unless the station is crazy crowded or my destination is within reach.
I find it baffling about why so many companies fail at charging performance.
I understand costs considerations, but I feel, it is mostly poor/sloppy engineering.
As i caculate in 15 min:
Rivian use super charge and get 44kw and move 86miles => 1kw = 1.9 miles
Vinfast VF8 get 29KW and move 66miles => 1kw= 2.2 miles
If you hurry choose Rivian, if you have time choose VF8 you can save more money 😂
You make an excellent point. Having these one aspect arbitrary tests isn’t real world.
On a trip, I always charge to 100% with level 2 clean energy before heading out.
The Gen 2 should be near-identical results. Max pack didn't change, dual-motor didn't change. There are a few weight-saving changes, but probably not enough to make more than a 1-2 mile difference. And with the weather/temp being good, the heat pump in Gen 2's improved HVAC efficiency wouldn't have mattered, either. In Winter, Gen 2 will do a lot better on this. (And I imagine the new 22" Aero wheels will be basically the same as the 21" with aero caps.)
I'll be interested to see how the new Tri-motor in Conserve mode compares.
Wrong. Gen 2 has a new oil-cooled battery system that promises to keep thermals in the pack way down. Cooler pack --> Less Thermal Throttling --> more KWh delivered during the 15 minute charge --> Further range.
The perfect range would be above 500 miles, with the measurement taken at speed always above 100 mph and with 4 people and luggage in it.
lol how model y is compare to rivian(egg vs brick ) ? then why dont compare toyota prius ?
Just info for making time on a road trip if time is your priority. If it isn't then use other criteria.
u0w much you get payed ever time you say Rivian?!?!?!
thinking about making the jump to an R1S from a mode X for more room so this will be helpful. I don't roadtrip that much so it will be a good metric to see but not the only factor
86 Miles ...Rivian and Francies VinFast 66 miles? ..Love the Rivian but not the price . Kyle I swear I seen a video/news that another Rivian delivery van caught fire (Amazon) last week(again) you heard anything ? Every video you make you mention the poor thermals , when you and Alyssa were out a few weeks ago battery was hot and you were getting poor charging, something is not right ?
Yep , 3 rivian vans Houson July 1 .. search Insideevs .."Amazon Electric Vans Ignite In Houston Heat. Rivian Rules Out Battery Fault
The Fourth of July week didn’t go as planned for three Rivian Amazon electric delivery vans in Houston." assuming 1 van caught fire which started the other 2.
I mentiooned in another thread that the Chevy Bolt had I believe 8 Fires before they were recalled, (I was one of many that received a new battery) . .that was a production error , Rivians APPAER to be as you keep mentioning a THERMAL management issue.. Still is a recall on the horizon?
Rivian VAN has an LFP battery and is charged to 100% on a daily basis. As the fire was not related to HV battery as far as was reported. So this has nothing to do with R1x
@@polzovotel "as far as was reported" . And as I stated thermal management.. dosent have to be specifically battery shorting out..but (as in dendrites) but therrmal management not working as it should ..which in turn leads to fires..we know the R1x has thermal managment issues..can be be related to the Amazon delivery vehicles? ..I think thats a fair question
@@electric-rideshare It is, it is just VAN is a totally different animal and has different thermal management than R1x. So any problems VAN may have will not reflect on R1x. As far as for now, there was not a single issue with the battery thermal runaway for R1x.
@@electric-rideshare LFP battery in the vans has a totally different configuration/cooling.
20inch wheels with AS 275/60/20 tires are more efficient than the 21 setup.
How is comparing the Rivian to a model x or y fair? Those are both not even in the same class as Rivian. That’s like comparing a BMW X7 to the X5 and X3 and saying the X7 is not as efficient. Well duh!
I own both so I can comment. The thermal management in the Rivian is not as good.
Kyle, this is a weird test...not real world at all. I've had a 22 Quad and now a 23 PDM Max...Max pack is a much better road tripper and camper tow vehicle.
How is charging for 15 min and testing the range a weird test?? - fellow R1T max pack owner
I have the same thing but just large pack. Have you done any towing yet? Curious as to the experience.
@@danielam3829 We're on our 2nd R1T now. The first was a 22 Quad we had maybe 6K in towing & 31k total on that one...we have a 1969 Shasta my wife and I did a total rebuild on during Covid. We have had our 23 PDM Max pack for 1 month, just over 3K miles, and 1K of towing. This last trip, it may be the updated software on the suspension, but with suspension on firm, it feel super stable and pulled great. Better than our 1st Quad, so it seems like it's the software adjustment. BTW, Our little Shasta is 4k lbs and has the aero of a parachute.
This is pretty disappointing
There is no reason for any car, even cheap economy Bolts etc, to not have monster charging anymore. Charging matters as much if not more than charger ubiquity. With that in mind, I think it would be better to call out that this charging behavior is unacceptable. Every car should be able to hold max charging to 80% and if they can’t, that’s a failure of engineering in the car. You wouldn’t buy a phone that took an hour to get to 80% so we need to stop accepting this from cars.
You should be doing the test in the least perfect conditions! Are you working for the EV car manufacturers? So change up everything and do your testing in terrible conditions real world conditions everyday conditions.
Colorado is a real place.
Lol what? They're trying to understand what's possible and to compare them against other cars. We know ideal conditions, we don't know what "terrible conditions" means. Ambiguous, not standardized, and non-repeatable. Interesting perhaps, but pretty useless for a testing regimen.
It’s 95 degrees in multiple regions of the country this time of year. This is a problem when Rivian “preconditions” the battery, then the battery is still in the 90s when it reaches the supercharger. Much sharper dropping charging curve, the battery will reach the mid 120s pretty quickly.
16:44 “… -most efficient- highest-range R1S Gen 1 you can get.”