EV Road Trips Suck Now (Except in a Tesla)
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- čas přidán 14. 10. 2023
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Just what I needed to watch.
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That's impressive, have you always had guidance?
how do I go about it the right way. I’d love to use similar terms as yours.
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This is just a symptom of a much larger issue. Mobile apps are, by and large, teerrrrible. Having the sole method of access to a service require one is a recipe for disaster. Especially one that’s so critical.
Today I downloaded an app to pay for a parking spot. I opened the app, set up an account, verified my number, and set a PIN. All for the app to tell me the parking lot was "unavailable" even though I was parked already
Our company and this product is very important to us, so clearly everyone ever should download our program onto their devices and fill out an account just to use something that could just as well have been a website. After all, it’s not like you would ever use a competitors products too.
The V4 superchargers thankfully have card readers built into them
Where I live (in Scandinavia), they pretty much removed all parking meters and replaced them with an app. Thankfully that one app works on ~ 90% of all parking lots, and is fairly easy to use (except when I'm on my motorbike since it doesn't recognize motorbike parking spots). But it's a never-ending source of frustration for me that we are completely at the whims of one company to keep their app usable and up-to-date.
There should be a law to force interoperability: all parking lots need to sign up to a common database, just use whatever app you want to interface with it, and pay through it. And then do the same thing with charging infrastructure: any app should be able to handle any charger, and pay the owner of the charging station.
Imagine if you needed a new credit card for every different brand of gas stations. It's insanity.
@@agingwheelsI had one let me pay for a spot in a garage. Only to find out the garage is private for the building it was near and I couldn't park there. They let me pay AGAIN at a nearby lot though and then refused to refund me because I "took longer than the 3 minute refund window" to request it
Can we all show some appreciation for the random person leaving such a helpful note for people not from that town .
11:47
Unsung hero.
I did my first EV road trip on a Polestar 2 (rental) from SF to LA and back. My experiences mostly match with this, with the added fun of thanksgiving traffic forcing everyone to wait for 12 cars waiting in line in front of them to charge using 2 broken stalls and 2 working ones, while the Tesla superchargers on the other side of the road were mostly empty. It made me seriously reconsider my plan to switch to an EV..
or switch to Tesla
@@FakedStick I love my model 3 but if you need a different make of car may be better to wait for now.
@@FakedStickrather not have a car with chinese sweatshop production quality
come on, it was like that long time ago, new ones are fine@@friendlysnoworb6091
@@friendlysnoworb6091 right, did you saying same thing for your iPhone or Mac?
The spread of mobile apps into things that don't really need them is a curse. It's fine to have an app as an extra feature but if it's fundamental to the functioning of the product that's a dealbreaker, at least for me.
I agree. There was already a standard. They should be set up like gas stations. You don't need an app for every separate gas station.
I'm shocked that people voluntarily choose to buy such simple things as bicycles which require mobile app to use. Of course they're f'd when manufacturer goes bankrupt or discontinue product, but isn't it worse than autonomous device in first place?
And why people agree to fiddle with menus and touch screens instead of just pressing a button or turning a knob without even looking at it for such basic things as A/C in a car, or microwave, waching machine, etc.?
You're absolutely right that the apps shouldn't be the only option - but they could also put in just a TINY bit of effort and make the apps not-terrible, but they can't even be bothered with that.
@@Draroka senior manager has heard mobile apps are the future, so gave an understaffed technical team too little time and money and told them to just make it work. Then spend all those pinched pennies on marketting.
I know, I'm hoping Canada legislates that EV stations be accessible through a card pay because we don't always have a phone with us.
OF COURSE I want to see you do another road trip when your Polestar can charge at Superchargers
currently, that is only available in Europe because 74% of the network is already open whereas in the USA open sites are maybe can be counted on one or two hands
I want to see this trip in the E-scape
Great video and very effective in illustrating the difficulties of NON-Tesla networks.
LOL, “ this would have been a much less complicated and easier video if he just used the solar powered 1000 mile Aptera that works on the NACS system because he would have been able to drive the entire trip without charging at all”
Idk, I think the polestar is cool and non Tesla charging networks stink and would probably never use a Polestar for a road trip until I could use TESLA network. Besides this video illustrates the complexity nightmare of charging on a nontesla network and I’m not surprised because this is not a mistake but by design to discourage EV purchases and encourage ICE PURCHASES.
That’s just me…
@@RobertCraft-re5sf35:27
@@RobertCraft-re5sf He explicitly made far more stops than necessary just to test the chargers. The Tesla he was driving is also the shorter range version that charges more slowly and can't go as far on a charge.
ETA: Aging Wheels commented below that this trip would normally require two stops in total.
Watching this just reinforces why buying a Tesla was the right decision. They thought about the entire user experience where the other automakers just thought about the car and that's it.
They barely even think of their cars, as a mechanic repair and maintenance is barely even their tenth priority for gasoline and diesel engines. Often times parts are hard to install and purchase (prices are inflated), conditions are cramped, sensors only work with extremely expensive scanners that are unique to their particular brand of manufacture, tools cost a arm and leg, and things just break constantly.
Chrysler is probably one of the worst American owned culprits.
A warranty exists.@@user-mc6dg6qe8l
@@user-mc6dg6qe8lbobcat and catepiller make more money off parts and service than they do selling machines. Mack trucks feel like the same way with how much we’ve spent on parts and repair in just 1 year.
I imagine car manufacturers are the same way, the real money maker is the parts and service.
Reinforced my decision to buy a Nissan Frontier with a V6.
Do you work in a industrial job?@@RKDriver
I've been considering an EV since I do a ton of driving for work. But I noticed that francis energy charger was charging $0.49/kwh. To get a full charge in that polestar 2, you'd need to spend $38.22 for around 300mi of range. My current, non-hybrid gas car fills up for $22 and gets 330mi per tank. Wheres the savings here? Even with the tesla, this whole thing seems like a pain. Have to plan my entire route around getting from charging station to charging station, and at each station you're sitting there for 30mins to an hour, after downloading the 17th proprietary single use app to pay for that specific charger.. In a normal gas powered car, you just go. Get low on gas at some point and you pull into any one of the bagillion gas stations on a whim and you're good to go in 2 minutes.
Honestly it's pretty incredible how well Tesla has done in setting up their own charging infrastructure. Don't just sell the car, sell the entire experience sort of thing.
I would've liked if every other manufacturer took advantage of that and used teslas charging hardware to boot.
@@BigWheel. it’ll be that in a few years
Tesla is not a car company but a power company. Can't sell you power without a car to use it.
Yeah, It's almost as if Tesla understands that people don't just want to buy cars - they also want to drive them. What a novel concept! I wonder how long it will take for 'old auto' to figure that one out. Seems like they haven't managed that in the past century sooooo...let's hope for the future?
The interesting thing to look out for is how fast they'll charge non-Teslas when that becomes an option. E.g. are they going to dump 150+ kW into Teslas but limit non-Teslas to, say, 70 kW? Time will tell.
The reason I see this happening is because there are reasonable incentives to open a charging site but little to no incentives for operating them. So you see them pop up and degrade quickly, never to return to full capacity.
Is that what is going on? Is electricity so cheap that there's no profit in it? I've heard gas stations don't make much money on the gasoline, but instead they make money on soft drinks and hot dogs. There must also be some engineering design problems that cause the other chargers to be broken so often. I can't believe that Tesla just has so many people fixing theirs. I've never seen any technician fixing a Tesla supercharger. They just must not break as often.
@@wemagor Tesla stations break as well, but they make their own equipment and do a good job with it. And they get fixed up rather quick.
Since Tesla had no choice but to make their own network and their survival depends on it, they had to do a good job. But we shouldn't need that to be the case - people should just use reliable brands like Kempower to do charging because having Ford, GM, Kia, and others rely on Tesla is just not a good idea. It's punting. It's strange because all the other brands in the EU made Ionity, and that works just fine.
@@wemagor Did you think all of those government bribes extended to operating the site?
This is why I'll never give up my gasoline fueled engine.
@@simonmacomber7466We don't care my fren ❤
All politicians pushing EVs should be forced to turn in their gas powered cars for EVs. This will let them see and suffer what they are essentially forcing people to live with.
you are always entertaining and I enjoy these daily slices of EV ownership videos, almost as much as the bus conversion ones. Keep it up, thanks.
This was not only entertaining but was also an incredible and comprehensive rundown with so much data in it. I'm sure you enjoyed the trip, yeah, but also just the same thank you so very much for putting this together!
yeah he does not need to hit 10% even close is the same as 10% it's just a few seconds faster a minute faster at most
What they said. 👍
@DeviantOllam - how many medallion qualifying segments did he earn on this road trip?
@@jrr851 hah, he skillfully avoided all of them... Didn't have to set foot in Minneapolis once 😉👍
I always love it when my favorite CZcamsrs interact with each other...
Making the same trip in the two EVs was a brilliant idea, and switching back and forth between them makes it really obvious how much better the Tesla road trip experience is: faster, less stressful, and just plain easier. Tesla deserves a lot of credit for showing everyone how good it can be. I’m so glad other EVs will soon be able to charge at Tesla Superchargers.
It was always coming that they would allow this, personally I hate the idea, 8 years of perfect charging is about to be ruined.
If only Tesla's had CarPlay... Then I might consider one....
One thing i don't really fet is that here in italy you see a lot of Teslas but no superchargers. I know the distances are much shorter than the US but it still makes no sense to buy a Tesla when it costs more than a comparable ev but you don't have many of the perks that make its purchase viable imo.
I would be careful not to extrapolate too much from one video. I have a great charger CCS near me (EVGO) and plenty on some routes from DFW.
@@gregkramer5588 the general pattern is very clear. There’s a reason so many automakers are switching to NACS: access to Tesla’s Superchargers.
I would love to see something like a Top Gear race between the Tesla and the Polestar (or other brand) where you select a start point and a destination and let the driver determine how they get there. Then tally up costs, time, frustrations, and show the results.
Out of Spec's "Race to Vegas" series does exactly this.
So glad you took the time to document this! Such useful info!
tesla driver here, I used to be really puzzled after seeing people swap chargers so much and now I understand why. The supercharger I stop by at a long commute has a shell CCS point in front of it. And whenever I'm there, I always see at least 1 person shuffling within the stalls and wondered why (since he was the only car there in all 4 stalls). I guess they are trying to get the one that actually charges full speed.
My experience is not that a charger is not charging at full speed. It's that many do not work, or shut off after 2-3 minutes. The problem is these chargers exist because of government incentives. And they receive those incentives for whether the charger works or not. The biggest non-Tesla network is Electrify America, and it's actually something VW was forced to build because of diesel gate. VW cares for it like you would an angle braclet on home arrest.
I've totally shuffled in my tesla if someone charges next to me at a V2. Super annoying when it happens...
@@texmex9721 Thankfully the government finally seems to be getting wise to it and is going to start having reliability requirements. Years to late and likely given no money for testing and enforcement, but at least it is some progress.
As a personal aside, I don’t think how much people who come from a technical background where you have to assume every user might be malicious realize just how much of our governments and world is based on the idea that people and companies will act into good faith.
@@texmex9721 typical governement program throw out millions of dollars up front to companies to put the equipment in but not requirement for maintennance of that they actually work. SOme of the manufactures chargers cost $100,000 or more per charges where as Tesla SC cost about $40,000 per charger. Tesla actually turned down governement handout in one state because they would not add pay screens or card readers to their chargers.
Had the same experience. We were coming back from Lompoc to SoCal along the 101 and stopped in Ventura. There were EA chargers across from the Superchargers. We watched an ID.4 pull in, fail, pull out, pull in, fail, pull out etc. 4 times and I don't think it was working right when we left.
Never had an issue charging our Teslas. Still, Elon is a dick and I wish he'd GTFO.
I rented a Polestar 2 from Hertz in Orlando. The Hertz reps actively tried to persuade me NOT to rent the car and get a Tesla instead. (I drive a Model 3 at home). After 15min, I persuaded THEM to rent me the Polestar I had reserved -- and had the same experience you had. I'd even done my homework on Plugshare and set-up the apps in advance. Chargers were hard to find, limited current and were sometimes full because they're limited in quantity. You'd have to be an engineer to figure this out. If you want regular people to hate EVs, give them a non-tesla for a road trip in 2023
in EU you can use every charging station with every car. Having this flexibility with the unified CCS standard benefits customers. Not sure whether this is a concept that is understood in US from what I can judge from the video and its comments
I agree with this 100%. I rented a Tesla in March and had a great experience. Had a Polestar last month in Tampa, and it was HORRIBLE. Charging was inconvenient at best, and almost always slow, regardless of the charging location. Could not imagine dealing with that on a daily basis.
Not sure you should expect good charging experiences in Florida or many states in the south.
@@FlamencoDenizThis is for the best. CCS1 charging is abysmal. With NACS, there is a chance to reset the public charging network. And Tesla is opening up its North American Supercharger network to non-Tesla EVs more and more everyday.
FlamencoDeniz: We'll soon have a unified standard--the excellent North American Charging Standard (NACS Tesla plug). Your huge bulky outdated CCS plug is ridiculous, you all should switch as well.
Good video, my experience was worse with our F150 Lighting. We now have a 2023 Model S and life is better now. We live in Canada and most all of the EV chargers that are not Tesla are not close to the highways and do take extra time to get to like a couple of the chargers you had. Thanks and keep up the good work.Cheers!
This is the first video I saw by you and it was an instant subscribe! Definitely one of my favorite channels, keep doing what you do!
The most wholesome part about the ev community is the helpful note left in the broken charger at 11:50
I haven't looked at the note at your time stamp, but my, possibly jaded, perspective is that the EV community is about as actually helpful as their virtue signalling will take them. It's all good while they can smell their own farts. When they can't be the savior of their own movie world, their thirst for EVs diminishes until only the true believers, and engineers, like the concept. For proof, scan historical Tesla forum posts. The thing Tesla drivers like MOST about their Tesla is the driver. That guy/gal is SO COOL he saves the planet before breakfast, using their Model S as their trusty steed. Reality doesn't matter, just appearance does. The true purgatory of the spiritually bereft. Expect MUCH MORE of this form over function nonsense as China starts to dominate the political landscape. They're all about "saving face." So long as it LOOKS GOOD, what's inside doesn't matter. A society built on a false front. The US has largely been a nation apart from this nonsense. The US has mostly liked to DO GOOD, while Europe has liked to LOOK good, and for Asians, it is in their blood. Call me old fashioned, but I was taught to "under promise & over deliver." For everybody else, it's been ingrained from birth "say whatever you have to, to get the deal." The former is in it for the long haul. The latter doesn't care. They've already spent the money. Now that I've drawn a virtual line in the sand, I'm going to go look at the note at your time stamp. if it is as I predict, I will leave this post intact. If it isn't, I'll erase all trace and I'll be the latter, while pretending to be the former.
I guess I'll add a footnote to my comment. I've looked at the note, and it doesn't, nor does, prove my point very much. Drats. What it does is bring up a separate, possibly completely off target comment, and that is to the person who wrote the note, and all others that read the note, or make note of the note, or think the note is noteworthy: "Thanks." "Every likes to complain, but few ever think of doing anything about their complaint themselves." Be the solution. Note-writer: what did you do to FIX the problem? Did you call someone? Did you even try? Or was you planet saving constrained to writing a plaintiff and self-congratulatory "note" to others? If the latter, it's better than nothing, sort of (but not really). If the former, clearly you were ineffective. Don't try harder next time, do harder. Effort without results is just wasted energy. "Be the ball."
The dude above me is fluent in Yappanese
Your experience pretty much matches with mine. We have a Bolt and a Tesla. So, in many ways, our experience is better than yours because with the Bolt as long as we're getting around 50 kw, we're happy since that's all it can do anyway. We're usually just happy if the station works at all. The Tesla is a totally different experience.
Hey, it's the 8BitGuy! Hi there!
Imagine fleeing from a disaster with an EV
I have a Prius. Never have to worry about stupid chargers. lol
@@loading...7583: Over time, I have changed my mind on hybrid vehicles. I now think they are a great complementary option to EVs. If you drove an all ICE vehicle like a non-hybrid Camry or a Corolla, you would be putting out more pollution than with your Prius. The kicker is that a well-maintained Toyota will easily last 200-300K miles, all the while pumping out their level of pollution. The Prius emits fewer pollutants per mile and can last you a very long time. So, I say your driving a Prius is a good thing in the greater scheme of things. 😊
We own a Tesla and do most of our charging at home at about 14 cents /KWH. Road trips have been easy as Tesla’s GPS navigates to charging stations along the way. Pricing is about 45 cents/KWH, but fast. Sometimes the charge is quicker than the time I need to make a comfort break-I’ve had to rush back to the charging station to disconnect to avoid the standby charges.🤨 Tesla will advise you when you have enough power to make it to the next charging station which may be less than a preset total (e.g., 65% vs. 95%). So the driver has a choice to keep charging (time) or just get on with the trip. 🧐 the charging experience is not as troublesome as some would make you believe.
@@dara7678 i can imagine it. I can imagine it pretty well. I live in southwest Florida. in 2017 i bugged out to my folks place 200 miles away to get away from Irma. the state was stripped clean of gasoline. i found ONE station on 27 that had gas, topped up and filled a gas can. i used that fuel to return home 3 days later.
Had I been driving a Tesla I would have simply drove to my parents house and then plugged in a charger in their houses dryer port and drove home after a full charge. there was NO GAS AT ALL on my way home. none. when i got home the fuel light was on and my range estimation in my car was 23 miles. i had left my other car at home, which got partly flooded, but it had a full tank of fuel. i was able to buy gas two days after the storm but my power didn't come back on for 5 days.
For Ian I didn't leave the area but rode it out in a stronger house across the county. it was 3 days before we could buy gas again. but 1/2 the co had power including the super charging station at 75 and colonial. ofcourse If i had an EV i could have meme'd it and hooked it to a generator too. mater of fact when i was low on fuel after two days I did use my EV, a 500 watt electric bike, to get around the area, and charge it off my little champion 1700 watt generator.
example: imagine you go to your friend's house, you take your charger because your phone battery is low and you discover that, not only you need an adapter and the power outlet doesn't charge fast as it should, but you also have to download his app to unlock that port...
The need for an app to pay for refuel is a big NO for me to an electric car... Why not like every other system and just pay with a credit card until the charge ends?!?
This is bullsh*t and I won't spend a penny (or an euro) for this mess... If you want people to switch to electric, you have to make something serious, not lucrative.
Imagine an old person with his first electric car, they arrive and they need to have internet connection, find the app, create an account, add your card infos and activate the charge... wasted at least 10 minutes... They will go back to fuel after all that pain.
Where was this video a little over a month ago?
I drove the Polestar cousin Volvo C40 Recharge cross country and back. Baltimore, Maryland to Los Angeles. 2700 miles...
We spent most of our time at Electrify America. Lots of overnights on empty Walmart lots.
It's the creme dela creme- which isn't that great. We got the plus pass just for the trip. Some were down, but technicians roam the country repairing them(we talked to quite a few otw and back).
BTW, the worst was Oklahoma. I won't say the name, but u did.... they required a $20 deposit before it worked. The price was the highest in the entire country. And it was pretty slow.
Unfortunately, it didn't work. We kept trying. Unknown to us, it took $20 to hold EVERY ATTEMPT. We were down hundreds with no explanation.
We had to ride backwards 20 miles while almost empty to a building in the middle of nowhere. Range anxiety was real. Luckily it worked! W had no idea what was going on.
It also happened on a EA- turns out the auto refill wasn't working. Our bank didn't recognize the transactions, and blocked it. It just kept taking and holding our money.
We had a few super extra slow inner city chargers that took half the day to get us 10-20% charge. It was great...smh
We averaged 2 hours of driving to every hour of charging. Easily 30-60 sessions.
Overall the prices weren't bad, but the headache made it not worth it. Go tesla, or don't go at all
I couldn’t have made a better show of this if I tried. Nailed every detail, added comedy and extremely well-edited. Great job, sir. Thank you for taking the time to make this.
Tesla doesn't need to pay for adds. They literally get it for free for making the cars properly and giving the experience to the owners.
Mind you the prices are a bit high and performance is high as well.
I'd be willing to get an entry level compact hatchback tesla with a 25.000 price tag.
Give it the 220hp instead of the 300hp in the rwd model 3,
Give it metal roof and not that silly glass roof that is extremely sensible and expensive when it cracks
Give it normal size 16" wheels and not stupid 18 or 19 or 20, because the larger the size, the more expensive tires get.
Give it normal upholstery, none of that heated (and now) ventilated leather seat
Give it 6 speakers instead of 17.
And this is how tesla will get into the proper segment for european market, the compact hatchback that doesn't try to play the hipster role.
Is there concern from non-Tesla CPOs that the ubiquity, reliability, and ease of use of Tesla Superchargers will tank customer visits to non-Tesla stations? Even if I owned an ID4, Ioniq 5, or Polestar 2, the allure of unlimited free charging gets negated by broken or derated hardware.
@@anthonyc8499The market adopting a single plug will make other operators that have their act together more appealing
I know for a fact, as much as I love EVs, this would give me massive anxiety from the amount of guesswork and luck involved with charging.
Unless it's a Tesla.
EVs are a environmental scam because the roads are made of oil
@@logitech4873 Yeah, but they are meh. They look blend like a car illustration on a polish bottle, the interior is dull and every single thing is operated through software via the touch screen. I want a car not an iMac !
@@jean-charlesweyland129 grammar police here, its bland not blend.
@@JJSmith1100 Sorry, I misspelled. Since I'm French, I hope you won't judge my writing skills too harshly.
Thank you for educating me on the 200-amp limit on chargers & polestar not being able to do 800v
thank you for driving through monteagle, my grandparents live there, it's really, really nice
They should color code charging stations like they do grades of gasoline. I've seen Rivians pull up to charge on a 100 kW station when there are two 200 kW and four 350 kW stations right next to it. I've also seen lots of Bolts use the 350 kW stations when they should be going to a lower rating machine to leave the 350s open for those who can use them.
Great point.
Taking this to the next degree when you open up the charge port of your vehicle it should be whatever color charge ports it can handle. So if it can handle say 100kw and 250kw it has say blue and green stripes in it respectively while a car that can also handle 350kw will have an additional red stripe.
Make it as easy for people who don't think to match the colors. Of course that still might not be enough.
@@Hybris51129 Maybe the best plan is just to make all charging stations 350 kW. The car's charging system will communicate it's maximum capability and the charging station will adjust accordingly.
The lower capacity chargers should be cheaper to encourage people to leave the faster ones open.
@@snaplash I like that idea. Especially since my 2020 Bolt takes about 2 hours to charge in the winter. I find it quite unfair to have to pay by the minute. From 70-80% I'm lucky to get 20 kW charging. I'm holding onto it until something better and just as affordable comes around. I've got a preorder in for a Volvo EX30 but might bale out if the Equinox makes it to market before the EX30.
I don't plan on getting an EV anytime soon, but thank goodness there are individuals like him that beta test the future of EV. So many issues with these chargers.
Unless you drive a Tesla...
I remember someone rambles about why the Japanese don't do EV and how they'll soon be out of business. But as far as I've seen, the more EV are sold the more proven that the general infrastructure is still horseshit instead.
Also I don't believe that proprietary technology from Tesla will help us much, just look at Apple and all their shit then tell me that's good for the industries. If one stagnated then they all stopped.
@@fragge2926yeah but if you’re going through the middle of nowhere you’re still screwed
That’s literally how I feel after buying an EV.
A beta tester. Like, testing an unfinished product.
I love the car but my god the unreliability of the chargers…
@@SoosRamirez1 well then your car will tell you...
hey guys here it is
We "Amelia" my Tesla 3 performance and I went from Asheville to Nova scotia, Quebec city, the Great Lakes, Victoria, Cape Flattery, San Francisco, Mendocino, LA, Tajuana, Death Valley, Las Vegas, Austin, New Orleans, Key West and back home to Asheville. 13,850 miles, 35 states, 32 days, 96 charging stops, 2 times had to change nozzles (not working). I used only Tesla on board charging maps, not once I had to wait. This is only possible with a Tesla. Go do it guy's. Charging cost was $0.22 to $0.63 a Kwh on my trip average 3.5m/kw
Crossing the USA and Canada I was ready for anything. In SF I broke a wheel but I had a spare and jack, changed while while charging.
in Covington La. a Ford Lightening driver had to wait 4 Hours to make it back home (80miles 8KW charger)
Qs ? leave comment
thanks
I love your channel and thanks for sharing. I have also never been to a gas station pump and not gotten a full tank in less than 5 minutes.
The charger's often aren't "configured wrong" when you can only get 60kW out of a 150kW charger. They are purposely configured that way, though it's very often a power limitation at the charging site that can/will be upgraded down the line. The owner of the charge site would rather get the chargers on the ground ASAP and set them up how they can right now, and then later deal with the massive undertaking that is getting a utility company to upgrade the available power there. Love the videos. More charging content.
There is nothing more permanent than a temporary solution.
@@reahreic7698 Damn if that ain't the truth. When you get a temporary fix working then you tend to just call it good enough even though you originally wanted it done better. But once it is working at any capacity it is much easier to just say, "i'll deal with that another time. it is working for now"
Just a hint, it has been found, that behind the Fence.. tesla have Deasil generators.. to top them up, when weather is overcast..
Americas Largest Solar powered Tesla, Charge station..
Has Generators hidden behind a fence. google map it.. a mate was there.. and a tanker turned up, and refilled under ground tanks.. when he asked the driver, wtf? he said oh most tesla charge stations, have generator backup..
Then they should report its true output so motorists don’t get stranded
its a known thing that they tend to turn the chargers down depending on grid demand..
Imagine if gas stations required an app instead of having a booth or a payment terminal
I don't see that as an issue. Instead of pulling out your wallet and tapping the card you pull out your phone and tap the app.
And they were unattended, with all pumps broken.
@@luciflash So, a payment terminal? That still doesn't require a mobile app.
This is one of the concerns about electric cars: the infrastructure for gasoline distribution is tremendously democratic. No one dictates which stations you can buy from, where you go using the gasoline you purchased, and you can even pay cash, if you want to leave minimal record of the transaction. It's a challenge to build an electric vehicle infrastructure, maintaining a similar level of democracy to which we've become accustomed.
@@morganahoff2242 I don't see why the chargers could not be part of a similar network of gas stations with the same basic look and feel as a pump. They are 90% of the way there. These various companies are acting as if there is no need for a attendant, no need for maintenance, no need for anything but a plug. It is as if they have never seen the impact of weather over a few years. Even at a flagship store he had significant issues.
Awesome Video! Really shed some light on the charging infrastructure that I too have come across.
I did a 750 mile from St. Louis, MO to State College, PA last year... now I'm worried about these changes (even near where I live the stations here have become unreliable). I don't know if I want to make the trip again. Also, I have a 2023 Nissan Leaf, so even scarier with a CHAdeMO plug. Not sure if you noticed... most of the EA stations "Station 1" or the "CHAdeMO" stations were almost ALWAYS down. At the very least around here, they are ALWAYS the one people go to use, meaning that I can't charge without a 3-4 hour wait time.
This mirrored my experience as well. Thanks for the honest video. I rented a Polestar 2 from Hertz, going from California to Az and back this past week . First, I really like the Polestar 2, it deserves better fast charging. For my trip, all I used was EA chargers. For reference, gas car takes 5:30- 6 hours give or take one way, it took 8 hours plus each way due to the same issues you experienced and waiting for a charger to open up. I consistently got like 80Kw give or take charge rate. To be fair, I did only drain the battery to 30-40% to make sure I could make it to another charger if I had to. But it's bad when you are more surprised the chargers work on the first try and you don't have to wait for a charger to open up. From what I could tell, Tesla owners looked like they had no issues and plenty of open chargers when ever I passed their super chargers. I would try a Tesla for the same trip next time...but if I need to have more assurance of my ETA and less "adventure", i will just take a gas car...I really wish the state of charging was better. I hope the adoption of NACS does not create a bad experience at super charges in the near future.
As I've said so many times, range anxiety isn't the issue, charge anxiety most definitely is!
Bet that is EV owner worst nightmare. I won't upgrade anytime soon even with the EV trend.
@@Linkwii64no problem w a Tesla
I love that chargers and stations seem designed by the hostile architecture guys.
It's what you get when they are built by government grants. No CCS chargers care if they are good chargers. (EA is probably an exception, but that was a government punishment still)
I'm pretty sure the reason for the odd locations is that's its hard to find places with sufficiently high power electrical capacity for setting up fast chargers. This would explain all the chargers near hotels, as there would be lots electrical infrastructure for the hotels to connect up to. Same for other big buildings.
Also, such such electrical infrastructure would have poped out of nowhere, it would have to have been built, and that means construction sites. This means there is an overlap between good spots for EV fast chargers and good spots for construction sites. Agian, good spots for big buildings.
Furthermore I believe to locations for big bouldings is determined almost exclusively using satellite view, as satellite view is what make the most sense to put on paperwork. If something isn't visible from satellite view, then it can't be taken into consideration, as it's not in paperwork. This can result in buildings in weird spots. I imagine there is a long history of EV chargers that are in weird spots, next to buildings that are also in weird spots. Quite literally because it looks good on paper. EV fast charging is likely to have an unfortunate, sad future of being in locations that are not human friendly. Things like sidewalks are not very noticeable from satellite view.
Laughed all the way thru the video. You have a talent for presentation, Thanks. Love driving my Tesla Model Y LR. The same trip in a Model Y LR only requires two stops, :16 min. and :22 min.
At hotels you are welcome to go inside and get coffee and snacks and relax inside, the reception area is always open, I enjoy stopping there if I am not on the hunt for cooked food or you can get take out and bring it inside and dine there.
At the Nashville SC that is one of our favorites, we go into Kroger and get some eats, open 6AM to 11PM.
This video has been riveting!
I started my EV experience renting Kia Niro, Hyundai Kona, and Polestar 2 models. I returned a Nissan Leaf after one lap around the block. Since I didn’t have a home charger, I had to rely on public stations-experiencing everything you described and more. Getting ICED¹︎ is the worst when there is only one Level 2 or 3 charger within 10-15 miles.
Eventually, Budget and Hertz expanded their Tesla stock so I could enjoy seamless, fast charging-as well as the best overall EV experience available. I now drive a Tesla daily and can’t fathom purchasing from any other brand²︎ until they come pre-installed with NACS.
¹︎This is when an ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) powered vehicle parks and blocks an EV charger. In many places, fines can match or exceed those of handicapped spots.
²︎Sorry, Tesla… I already plan to buy another brand at that point if you still haven’t adopted CarPlay. Even the Polestar has CarPlay… with an OS powered by Android³︎!
³︎The first Polestar 2 I rented did not have CarPlay and the OS constantly crashed. It was a horrible experience. Six months later, I rented another and found they fixed nearly every bug while also adding CarPlay. Kudos to Polestar for moving quickly to improve their customer experience!
footnotes in a youtube comment, brilliant
it’s crazy to me that the only station that even had a roof over it (not counting the one inside the garage) was the station at the end, a lot of those looked frustratingly fiddly, and i can’t even imagine how miserable it’d be in pouring rain
Try it at 2 am in January when it's negative 5 degrees outside with 20 mph winds.
The crazy thing is we already have a blueprint for places to go to put more energy in cars - gas stations! Just follow that design!
@@thomasphillips885 yeah, I don't get why EV stations are nowhere near as welcoming as gas stations. People need to be there for at least 15 minutes or more, make it friendly, have a roof, provide them with coffee and a croissant, or even a greasy spoon diner, so that they can have the fun experience of high tech charging and old school diner
I can because EV owners love to vlog themselves charging their cars in all sorts of weather conditions whilst petrol drivers are just sitting comfortably under the large gas station roof.
@@stevendeckert6373 ...and you're only going to get half or less of the usual range due to the cold temps
Tesla is adding NFC payment terminals on their V4 superchargers in accordance with the rules for getting IRA funding to help build out their network. Those charger should also do 1000V at 350A or more for 350kW charging.
NFC payments is not a credit card reader, but it is at least something
@@andykillsuthey are if your credit card supports tap to pay, but that'd be asking too much of banks.
V4 chargers were spotted in Sparks, NV awaiting install with a small screen, NFC, and magic dock.
@@andykillsuI don't know how it is in the US, but in Europe, NFC terminals can accept cards no problem.
@@andykillsu Most if not all credit cards can use NFC now.
This has been such an informative and entertaining video! Seeing your excitement about charging percentages and kilowatts, had me cheering for you when you could a good charging station! I'm on the fence and currently "window shopping" for a new vehicle; researching if driving an EV will be good investment for me for the long term. I tend to keep my vehicles for 7-10 years. Seeing the trials and tribulations of charging on a road trip definitely gives me things to consider. Thanks for sharing a real time and real experience of EV ownership. Definitely entertaining! :)
I just started looking into this. I learned some things here and by that, I mean I learned EVERYTHING. Thank you for all your work making this video. 😀cheers
There is a British EV channel that did something similar with a Zero motorcycle. He wound up with some 6 or more apps in order to charge, as every station seemed to have its own brand of charger. He was going about as far as you did.
Can you link the video? I'm interested
That's the thing that would stop me from buying an EV if I needed public charging.
Charging should be as easy as buying gas with a credit card.
I am in the UK and I have an EV that has a relatively low range (175mi) and the number of apps I have is insane. Then the fun that some of them forget your login every time, so you need to login to the app each time you want to use them.
The thing is with these being connected to their apps they should know when a charger is broken or underperforming. So if any are bad they are choosing to leave them in poor condition.
Apparently, tesla knows not only what chargers are broken, but whether they’re being used or not.
THIS!
And when he got to the one where someone had taped up a sign that they had been broken for months - they clearly would see that those chargers were earning zero/near zero income, and would know to check them out.
They're too damned cheap to maintain them.
"should"
I know from calls with service employees that - I s**t you not - some of them have absolutely no clue when a charger is offline or not working as it should. It literally takes a phone call from someone to notify them.
"Oh yeah... I can see that the charger is offline. We'll send a technician tomorrow morning." - The first time I've heard this, I started fantasizing about visiting those goobers, death, destruction, etc. Just thinking about it makes my blood boil.
Yes, that was my thought process immediately.
It also allows them to get other kinds of data collection along with that I would boldly assume, but I am not absolutely sure on that and to enforce the maintenance of the stations.
Well why should they repair them, if we are supose to switch to Tesla in 2024. We are basicly nearly there. 2.5 month to go.
Would love to see the follow up video. I am Interested in EVs but videos like this illustrate why I can't afford to rely on sketchy charging networks.
No go for me on long distance trips in a Tesla. 2 Decembers ago, I took the fam from SoCal to Vegas in our MYP and it became a bit of a nightmare. A line of 30 Teslas waiting for stalls to open, some drivers pretending they don’t see the end of the line and trying to cut in front of an unsuspecting person, some stalls were busted, but you didn’t know until you pulled into the stall - which happened to me. By then I just lost my place in line and trying to navigate that situation was horrible. I was panic screaming at a guy as I tried reversing my tracks back to the front of the line. Took 2 hours to charge. ::shudder:: Still have the Tesla, but no more long trips.
I guess still issues on popular routes... or maybe it is better now, who knows
Good news! Compared to 2 years ago, Tesla has drastically increased the # of Superchargers in Barstow and Baker. I don't own a Tesla, but I have seen the new ones when I frequent the towns. Yermo needs to increase their # of chargers tho. Victorville and Hesperia should have new chargers as well.
“Tragically underserved” has definitely been a key part of my experience in a Non-Tesla. I’ve so far not had much trouble finding decent charging speeds at EA chargers, but the useful ones near me have so much contention that you’re pretty much assured a wait at them.
At least at a Walmart, Dollar General, or other store there's something to do! The hotel locations I'm sure are meant for guests staying at a room. In that situation (and ONLY that situation), chargers make a lot of sense, but they don't need to be _rapid_ chargers. It would be great if gas stations put in charging stations, and situated them like single-deep gas pumps. Then the stations can have things to do inside, like arcades, TVs with tables and chairs to eat hot food and drink beverages people buy inside, the station will have a captive audience they can capitalize on if they configure the place correctly.
So a Truckstop?
Yeah, but with chargers, more prevalent, and not catering to truckers @@stylesrj
There is a Pennsylvania based gas/convenience store company , Wawa, that has been installing Tesla chargers at their stores. They have between four and eight chargers per store.
Hilton has a deal with Tesla to install 20,000 “universal” chargers at Hilton hotels in 2024. At least six per hotel. Universal means they will be configured to work with any EV.
Wawa is in PA, MD, VA, NC and possibly other states. The Hilton/Tesla deal is for the US, Canada & Mexico.
@@mikecumbo7531 Wawa obviously knows what they're doing then.
@@notmuch_23 Wawa sells sandwiches, soup, snacks and has restrooms. They aren’t dummies. Some of the truck stops need to add chargers to keep pace. (US truck stops sell gasoline for cars).
I don’t know how Tesla decides on charging locations, but the power companies need to keep up.
I appreciate this look at EV charging stations, especially in the same location of country as me. While I'm still not going to go for a Tesla when I begin transitioning to EVs, this has made me appreciate car manufacturer's increasing proclivity for hybrid vehicles. That kind of flexibility will make the transition to fully electric cars much easier down the line, once the infrastructure is able to be standardized, regulated, and optimized. This kind of honest look into the reality of the current, early end of the market, plays a significant part in improving that future.
Would have been great to get some data regarding the extra time it took to do the drive including all the messing around with slow/ faulty chargers.
Nope. Trying to set a certain narrative so...
A couple things to remember…
1. As you said, EA was started as VW’s punishment for Diesel Gate. The court ordered they build a certain number of charging stations, not that it be a pleasurable experience for the user.
2. Tesla is entirely vertically integrated in their own ecosystem, so their SuperChargers only have to work with only one vehicle… their own operating software, their own protocols, etc. We’ll see how they do when they have to work with other brands of EVs and more than just Teslas (PS I expect Tesla will still be better than EA does with every brand of EVs).
Signed,
An F-150 Lightning owner anxiously awaiting my SC adapter
Tesla is the Apple of cars
I wish they would force a sticker on all Electrify America that says this charger is built and operated by Volkswagen ...
Are you going to use the lightning as a "real" truck or just a family mover/ grocery getter? My uncle bought a lightning and we both hooked up a trailer to each of our trucks. (he bought 2 Toyota sequoias which are large v8 suv). I pulled one and he pulled one 500 miles to home. I have a 1996 ford ranger with the 2.3l and 5 speed manual transmission and a 30 gallon tank. 100 miles in and he already had to find a charger that could fit a whole trailer. And a charger that would actually worked because 60 percent of them did not! I made it home 3 hours before he did. And only had to stop and fill up once. It was his first time using it as a real truck. He looked kinda pissed that a mid 90s ford with a 100hp underpowered engine did better than his 100k plastic piece of trash with a 65 inch tv glued to the dash!
@@cadenswain158 No such thing as using it for a real truck. EVs are not ready for towing. For now if anyone needs a truck to actually be a truck then they need an ICE version, not an overpriced toy
In the UK and Europe non-teslas can already use superchargers and you're right there are problems. Some cars have showstopping software incompatibilities, some more minor things like plug location meaning you have to block two stalls. V4 superchargers may be better for compatibility but tesla are only the 4th or 5th biggest network in the UK so not critical.
This video just seems like a public service out and out. Doing these trips, showing the experiences so people know what they might be getting into. I, for one, thank you. And would love to see another road trip in the manner you suggested.
This video just seems like an advertisement for Tesla.
@@simonmacomber7466if you think THIS puts tesla in a positive light I dunno what to tell you
I kinda agree, although nothing here is noteworthy to anyone with a minor modicum of analytical ability who hasn't been locked in a freezer somewhere. I thought this video as a good public service, as you mention, with a different one of your "outs" from the list of "out and outs," and that is one to the CZcams video community. While the substance of the content is predictably predictable, I thought the team that put this together did a great job, video-wise. Its as if it was professionally done. Many camera angles, good script, good editing, excellent acting, the whole package, is awesome. From the EV community's perspective, do they every learn anything, really? Perhaps 10% do. 90%: they're just in it for the smell of their farts. Me, I won gas guzzling cars and Tesla stock, so I'm good. 👍 My cars don't guzzle gas out of spite, or intent. It's just that they're performance vehicles. I don't drive much, but when I do, I like to get to my destination BEFORE I've left for it.
That really left an impression. I did not know that these cars are so annoying to charge.
I really appreciate your patience. This was a great video.
I'm kinda surprised that most charging stations don't have a canopy over them. I'd love to see this in the Polestar when you have access to superchargers.
Or, crazy thought, cover them all with solar panels. 🤦♂️
@@pdubyaz That would be perfect!
@@pdubyazmight have to cut some trees to get good solar access.
Imagine being in a wheelchair and having to assemble your chair in the fucking rain to power up. And then have to switch to another charger when the app lied to you amd its not working well.
Canopies cost money and there's basically zero chance they'd have enough solar panels to justify the cost. Even with unlimited on-site storage you'd need a solar array maybe double what you'd have on a typical house (e.g. about 10kw) to charge ONE car daily under ideal conditions (70+ kwh). The economics just aren't there...
Great video comparison! One thing not mentioned is that in a Tesla the car figures out which chargers to go to and how long to charge. I just did a road trip from Raleigh NC to Bel Air MD (440 miles) and had to stop to charge once for 15 minutes. By the time I went to the bathroom and got a snack, the car was pretty much ready. Without the Tesla supercharger network, it would be a big hassle and stressful.
If I remember correctly, once your state of charge falls to a certain amount (relative to where the nearest charging stations are) it asks you if you want to route to a charging station. It's actually fairly convenient to live with a Tesla (with the minor exception of tire replacements. They wear out relatively quickly compared to ICE cars and the cost for compatible tires is a bit high.)
FYI, the Polestar also does route planning and figures out charging stations to use. I honestly like the Google Maps app in the Polestar better than in my Tesla.
The Tesla route planning was the biggest factor in easing my charging anxiety. I know apps exist for CCS and even a few that say they are better than Tesla's, but I've never had a problem with built-in planning app. Again, it just works and I don't have to worry about it.
*See, it's BS statements like this that make me think you're a shill for the EV industry, or just stupid.*
Here is a FUN FACT! Almost every mammal that urinates a liquid does so in nearly the exact same amount of time. Always under 30 seconds.
I can choose a snack in 1 minute. I've never seen a line that was more than a couple minutes at a gas station.
So, that's 4 minutes.
That makes you a liar, by and large.
@@JimmyDorff I do that though that in a tesla, it will tell you how many chargers are available live on the map so you know if its busy/full etc. I live in DC and some of the big stations can be busy as alot of people are passing through or live without charging at home.
I had a Tesla for a week in S FL last November (2022) and it was good except for the last charge near the airport when I had to wait a while to get an available SC.
Same area I rented a Hyundai Ioniq 5 - EA was a complete failure. I only had 1 good experience there - I did notice that a lot of people were charging there even if the session was bad because they were getting their charges free (3 years of free charging).
ChargePoint was a joke at 7.5 kW - not planning on taking a day to charge it.
Florida Power and Light had the only ones which constantly delivered at a real level.
Each one of these needed a new app loaded for them to be used. Some used the Apple Pay and others needed to add a credit card but the app remembered the card for each use.
I do not understand how we allow EA to get away with the poor function - the diesel gate punishment must not have any teeth in it.
One other thing that I notice this trip is that you see slow charging cars using the 350's. Its like there are some rules which need to be said - because people do not follow commmon sense.
The MB parked at the Tesla charger is a prime example - the sign probably says EV PArking only - so the MB is not in violation but it is not able to use the charger so it is essentially stealing valuable space.
It is also odd that Tesla seems to be about to plan out a dozen chargers in a lot and EA has roughly half. I would assume that the parking at the furthest spaces from the Walmart/Target are the best for teh business to give up - plus I read that they want to pull in the EV owners to shop since they are anchored for 30 minutes.
Most ppl will have no idea about the measurement of energy (charging) differences! They will just plug and sit.......
This is why I bought a Model 3 instead of an Ioniq 6 (not to mention it's cheaper). Superchargers make the transition from a gas car a breeze. Having to rely on a shoddy charge network was an absolute dealbreaker, despite all the cool stuff happening with non-Tesla EVs.
Yeah you just have to suck up the depreciation and insane insurance costs instead.
@@davidlewis4399 got it used insurance is $180 a month, not terrible
@@davidlewis4399 New tires every 40K miles and wasting time on road trips charging doesn't do it for me. Fast charging doesn't sound very quick when you compare it to 3 minutes to fill a 10 gallon hybrid tank with a 500 mile range. How much of your vacation do you want to spend waiting on a charger?
@mikeincanada_ What ARE you doing to your tires??
@@mikeincanada_ except 90% of the time you charge at home and spend 0 minutes refueling. And you never need oil changes so thatll cover the tire wear.
I went across the country from Denver to New Hampshire in an EV6 in late 2022. My experience was this or worse at every single Electrify America station. I didn't even get to use the free credit that came with the EV6 at most stations as the app continually crashed, let alone the constant charger issues.
We almost got stranded outside of Cleveland as all but 1 charger at a state rest stop was busted. Outside of the set of chargers across the highway (at the rest stop going in the other direction), there were no other options.
Sadly even the complimentary Level 2 chargers at our hotels were often faulty. One hotel didn't even have one as advertised, quote "because a semi truck took it out months ago".
The infrastructure is inexcusably poorly built and thought out. These apps are faulty. Something needs to be done, and I'd prefer to have more than 1 reliable long distance charging option in the country.
Dang this was eye opening! Thank you for this video.
The only bad thing I see is that none of the other auto makers are going to put in the infrastructure and the Tesla owners are going to face backed up chargers
This summer I went on a 13,500km roadtrip through Europe in a long range Tesla Model 3 and documented every supercharger session, including cost and kWh charged. During the whole trip (52 charging sessions) I encountered 2 or 3 defective chargers, but I was told about them by the car ahead of time and there were always like 11 other superchargers to pick from. Most of the chargers were open to other cars, so there would usually be a huge variety of EVs at the Tesla chargers. There was never any queues, and I always got the advertised speeds. (150kW at V2s, 250kW at V3s and V4s)
I decided to try to charge at one non-tesla charger. It was an "Iberdrola" charger in Spain, which was located in the parking lot for a hotel I was staying at.
It wanted me to use an app that was entirely in Spanish. Sure, I can use google translate and get through that. There was no guest option, instead it required an account.
Where I got stuck was when it wanted my Spanish national ID number. Why does a paid charger need me to be a Spanish citizen??
So I was kinda just stranded at the hotel. I had planned my route with this charger in mind.
I ended up having to drive in to the middle of Madrid to get to the nearest supercharger, and arrived with only 2%.
All I learned was to never rely on anything other than the supercharger network.
In any case, I'm glad it's opening up for as many people as possible. I've seen a lot of Tesla owners selfishly argue that it should remain closed, but that's dumb.
Would be interesting to see how long it would take on the same trip in a gas vehicle.
Yeah the latin speaking countries are fond of their tax numbers. You need not be a citizen but at least a taxable resident to get a NIE or similiar in Spain, Italy, Portugal, Brazil, Argentina and many others...
@@cousinjohncarstuff4568 It would save some hours for sure, but we were usually more limited by fatigue than car range. The charge sessions usually doubled as lunch or rest sessions.
@@logitech4873 from this experience, it sounds like your lunch sessions are limited to hot dogs and chips or what ever else they serve at the gas stations or walmarts the charger company picked for you. Healthy AND tasty!
@@zincfive "Walmarts" lol. Wrong continent.
For travel days we ate a lot of fast food stuff, which was pretty great because I come from northern Norway where fast food is nearly non-existent. (My nearest McDonald's is 12h of driving away)
But obviously when we arrived at our destinations we would find proper local restaurants and stuff. Some days we camped and cooked our own food as well.
I ate a lot of great food in the various countries we visited.
There is giant asterisk next to Tesla, or any EV, when you factor in where you are located in the country. My good friend who has a daughter in college at Nebraska, made the road trip from Minnesota to Nebraska with his wife in his model 3 to visit their daughter. Not only did they have a hard time finding charging stations or planning routes around charging stations, but the experience of charging the car and waiting was so awful, upon arriving in Omaha, they traded in their model 3 for a Subaru, which they decided to give to their daughter on the spot, booked a flight back home, and bought a ICE Audi after they returned home. Afterwards they swore they'd never buy electric again, until the technology developes and matures significantly more than where it's at now, and a competent infrastructure system is in place and available nationwide.
I also have friends and family who have Teslas and other EVs who live on the West Coast, and they love them because charging stations are everywhere.
Now those are obviously two scenarios on opposite ends of the spectrum, but clearly EVs are not the magical solution to fossil fuels yet, and ultimately they may never be, considering the cost of actually developing the needed infrastructure to make them a nationwide reality.
How do you have issues finding a charger in a car that automatically routes you to chargers?
@@logitech4873 Distance required vs. range available. Very simple. In Canada, there are less than 1,500 Superchargers and over 1,000,000 km of paved roads. Do you know the % of Canada's population that has a viable use case driving a Tesla? Typical -20C penalty is also 40-50% range loss. 🤣
The chargers have to exist. The charging networks are very sparse in MN/ND/SD/MT/NE etc. Sometimes there are just no chargers to be found in the car's range.
“This is where the introverts park” 😂😂
This is the best EV charging experience video I have seen to date. Well done. As a Californian Tesla owner with friends who own non-Teslas, I'll say that our collective experiences have been very similar. But, I'll add... My biggest anxiety is not reliability, but availability due to usage. That's an entirely different issue to deal with right now.
Nailed it, and it isn't getting better.
* I noticed and I still drive regular cars.
@@kurtvanluven9351 My Tesla suits me perfectly for day to day driving and shorter trips. I still have ICE cars for longer road trips.
First thing I did on getting my Cupra Born EV was install and register every charging app for every station within 1000km of my home in Sydney, Australia.
A dozen apps, all prepared with my payment details, just in case I end up at one of these.
It's got to get better.
Google play has removed permissions for these apps that have not been used recently...
That’s a LOT of opportunities for sensitive information to be stolen.
In Scotland I have two cards and a couple of apps, but that's in addition to Tesla chargers.
Or... you can drive a proper vehicle.
If gas stations were invented in the last decade im sure it would be very similar trying to fill up with gas.
The solution is a big wall to line all these corporate plunderers up against.
Very entertaining video. This is why I bought a PHEV. I save gas on my commute and can be mostly all electric driving in town. However, on road trips I don’t have range anxiety.
Some of those locations were downright scary.
I am an EV owner and I will say one problem that rarely gets mentioned is surge use of chargers. The same charging station that has 10 chargers and one guy charging at 10AM on a Tuesday can have 10 people charging and a line of 10+ at 6PM on the last day of a three day weekend. There are times when more people are on the road for a trip, and existing chargers can get overwhelmed. During the eclipse some charging stations were overwhelmed as people showed up to rural areas without much charge, watch the eclipse and then needing to charge, showed up at a charger that normally get very little use.
I have an older Tesla and I still get range anxiety in the Midwest because of the supercharger spacing is still pretty far. Hopefully with the additional cars they will add some more stations between the ones that are 140 miles apart.
I would recommend selling any older Tesla for a newer one. Simply due to charging and parts
@calofc01s doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of it being a "green" vehicle with low maintenance? Teslas haven't even been around for what, like 25 years at most? So if the "old" ones should be replaced after 2 decades, isn't that kinda bad? Why can't I buy a tesla keep it for 40 years and keep getting parts for it? What's so hard about that?
And I hope you can get one with a longer range, because there are still highways in the west where GAS stations are 170+ miles apart.
And in that 140 miles, each way, there is 100's of Gas stations..... It just shows how the EV charging network is not even close to being ready.
@@BigWheel. to be fair. Tesla takes out the batteries from Old Tesla's and hooks them up to their powerwall line of products.
This was very interesting. It goes to show how good we have it here in Finland: everyone uses CCS2 (even most Teslas) and this phenomenom of broken chargers was mostly left in the year 2019 or so.
What we have here though is that with less price you get less amperage. The cheapest two charging chains (Autoliitto and ABC-lataus 24 to 35 eurocents per kWh) get sometimes limited power, but if you want to spend the extra money (45 to 50 eurocents per kWh) you can go to Tesla, Recharge, Virta or Ionity and get the full speed of your car.
The app thing with credit cards is still a thing here though: card readers are only coming in now, with few examples present. They are a requirement for mass EV adoption though, as apps can be very difficult for the technologically impaired (and infuriating for the rest of us). We have plug and charge coming, but outside of Teslas it's considered a curiosity.
But fear not, I hear the Finnish pride Kempower charger is coming to America! Enjoy Tesla like reliability, but only better cable management, and a display! 😘
Love from Norway to kempower, my only problem is that they share CCS with CHAdeMO, especially when there are like 8 other CCS. Because you know there's gonna be CCS cars hogging the CHAdeMO once. And leave the other 8 spots empty, ps (written on a Nokia)
Actually, all teslas except the roadster use CCS2/Mennekis
@@gkgameplaycz I think the first model S and X sold in EU used the tesla north american plug. The model 3 and Y have always used the mennekis. cheers!
I can't justfiy the small diffrence in speed Between ABC and everyone else since ABC is much cheaper. + it's kempower so never had a problem.
@@ai4px Wow, didn't know that, since I've never seen a NACS charger in europe. I've seen the special roadster ones, but not the NACS. Is it possible that they retroffited older teslas to use CCS2?
It’s amazing how reliable Tesla charging stations are. I’m glad I did my homework when buying an Ev, you couldn’t pay me to deal with those other charging stations.
So basically if your phone ever run of battery during the trip and you need a charge you're screwed.
EV cars have phone charging ports pretty much everywhere to solve that issue 😊
By the lack of knowledge you have of EVs you will be stuck in your driveway.
“The vast majority of EV charging is done at home” - this can’t be screamed loud enough. 200+ miles of useful range means I will rarely charge away from home (and even then, usually overnight at my destination).
This is the biggest thing I always point out to anyone asking how often I have to deal with fast charge stations. I just ask them "How often do you drive more than 200 miles in a single day?" because that's the only time I even *think* about charging beyond "Gotta make sure to back into the driveway if mom's parked at the top."
Half the population don't own a home and can't charge at home. Yet again the rich finds a way to bully the poor.
The other thing is if there is a level 2 charger near a place you’re going to be at for an hour or two, you can plug in and improve your range. Generally, prices are lower as well.
Yep, and this is why the 2013 Leaf my son drives is still useful. It does his daily commute and recharges overnight in the garage. No public charging needed for normal usage.
yea but you cant charge at home when you are on a road trip and that is really the point here.
also, many live in apartments and cannot charge at home
or if people rent a house, they can only use a level 1 charger, which is 4-6miles per range per hour plugged in.(unless landlord allows for tenant to pay to install a level 2)
One thing to note is that Tesla regularly upgrades Supercharger hardware. There is a good chance that the V2 units that you stopped at will be upgraded at some point in the future.
Interesting. I live in Sacramento CA. A mile from me is a Tesla Service Center. Just a mile or so further down the same road there is a Tesla Supercharger. In a parking garage. In the back of a mall (Arden Fair Mall).
This must be one of the OG charging stations. It is V1, with 19 stalls - all 72 kW.😮
I wonder when (actually, I wonder IF) Tesla is going to upgrade it. It is right off a major Interstate (I-80), and even though it’s slow and the location in the mall is kinda awful, it is regularly pretty busy. (We have other V2 and V3 SC in the area, thankfully.)
Because I live in town, I (almost) never go to the local SC, just charging at home. Unless I’m curious and just want to check them out with a quick plug in.
Great video! I love the math here:
EA + gas station + Dunkin’ = HEAVEN
Safe travels, all.
Here in Florida, Tesla is not paying their rent for their superchargers which they have left in broken condition. It's an utter failure.
@@ezpoppy55 The big expense upgrading tesla superchargers isn't the stalls themselves, it's the electrical infrastructure supplying them. Upgrading the supercharger there would mean potentially trenching for bigger service cables to the utility poles, upgrading the poles or underground infrastructure itself, and the large transformers and DC rectifiers that supply the stalls would need to be replaced. Depending on the specifics of the electrical infrastructure at that location, it might be more expensive to upgrade a station than it would be to build a new station at a more convenient location nearby.
@@ReiniGrauer Makes sense. Like I said, it’s often times quite busy there. That may be because of its location (just off the interstate), or maybe because it’s sooo slow, cars are plugged in for an extra long time. Probably a combination of both. 🙂
@@ezpoppy55 My one guess to the stations at Arden Fair not getting upgraded is the fact the mall lost two major anchors, Sears & Nordstrom. Bummer. I like Arden Fair Mall.
It's always seemed to me that interstate aligned chargers should be next to a mini-mall, with a couple restaurants, a convenience store, maybe an arcade, a small gym with showers, some desks where you could set up your laptop and do some work. Basically you should be spoiled for choice with how you'll spend the 30-90 minutes at that charger.
Ultimately I generally prefer to travel by air because I have very limited PTO and spending half of it driving to my destination never appealed much, but if I'm gonna spend 1/5 travel hours charging then it should have something interesting there damn it!
Halfway thru your video. 5 things: 1,What does "complimentary mode" mean? Maybe I missed that explanation. 2, How many miles between charges? 3, How long at each charge? Did you charge fully? 4, Did you take the shortest best route, e.g. interstates v lesser roads that may entail driving thru cities and towns? And did you have to veer from the shortest route to get to a charger? 5, Advance planning- how much time went into that? And do you have to subscribe to various energy networks ahead of time to get the service, as you pointed out not too many credit card readers out there. Maybe this will be explained at the end.
Maybe if Electrify America wasn't operating in complimentary mode they could have money to employ people who could maybe fix their chargers?? Geez. Definitely want to see this test with the Tesla chargers, this video was great!
We've been paying by card at gas pumps since the mid-1990s. Its a nearly flawless experience. Why can't EVGo, Electrify America, et al get payments and initiation down is mind boggling. Its like they took an already well thought out process and actively made it worse.
With Tesla you don't even have to fumble with a card. Payment processing should be integrated in the vehicle
I still confuse on this backward way of doing payments either. It like they want you to have the worst experience with your EV car.
@@thedopplereffect00 That I do not agree with, because if you have multiple people using a car regularly or you lend the car to somebody, the owner always gets charged for the charge and will have to ask someone to Venmo or whatever the money back, instead of the person charging just tapping their card/phone on a reader and paying for it right away. Besides, most everyone just has their card in their phonecase anyway which is always in their pocket.
@@thedopplereffect00I'd never trust car companies with my financial data.
@@flurpoid do you just walk in with a bag of $100's when you buy your cars?
3:06 If there is a gas station on the other side of the street, then just cross the street. A 1-2 minute walk can't be that bad? ;)
I’ll only say this once, I will not even think of getting an electric car unless the charge time is better than the refueling time of normal cars.
But that will not happen.
I recently bought a PHEV and the amount of broken chargers out there is ridiculous. Now I only charge at home.
To answer the question, I went PHEV before going EV to test the reality of the infrastructure and get used to EV life. Glad I did.
What car did you get?
How far can you drive with the EV part of your PHEV and how many miles do you think you usually drive fully electric? Or are you using it in hybrid mode?
@@Tschacki_Quacki CX-90. I have it set to prioritize EV. Most of the time I’m able to do about 30-40% of my driving in EV. Averaging 28-32 miles of range with my driving style. Car is absolutely amazing, it’s the infrastructure that is disheartening.
My problem is when we go out shopping or whatever and there are chargers around, 70% of the time they are broken, and the remaining 30% are typically in use.
I did the same thing. Started with a PHEV and ended up going with Tesla. Very rarely had anywhere to plug the PHEV in outside of home.
Same thing here. I'm in Iowa with a Volvo XC60 T8 Recharge, and the infrastructure here sucks for full EV capabilities. But, in exchange for the gas capabilities, I only get slow charging. Hopefully, by the time I get my next vehicle, the infrastructure will be better.
I have a 2023 BMW X5 45e PHEV. It has about 30miles of real world electric range. It is not quite enough range to cover all my journeys around town, but about 70% of the miles in town have been in pure electric mode. It gets over 1000miles of range before I need to fill it up with gas, which is awesome. I changed the settings on mine to always start in pure electric mode. When the gas engine kicks the power transfer is pretty smooth. Overall very happy with it, it is just an awesome car, super nice.
PHEVs aren't designed to be charged for longer trips and other than charging it my parents house, I have never successfully charged it away from my house (I tried twice, but both times did not work / were too much of a hassle for me to try to get working)
Charging experience in the UK is utterly different, yet still quite similar, with faulty chargers, dodgy apps, no card readers etc.
The thing that I'm impressed by in both cars here is that they actually show your charging power in kW. None of the vehicles I've used are that helpful. The Peugeot Van tried to tell me in mph, and the BMW i3s just gave time to 100% which is useless if you want to leave at 80%.
Luckily some chargers will show the power on the screen, but very few have a screen you can see from inside the vehicle.
I'm trying to remember.. the Vauxhall van I use definitely shows me mph when charging (which amuses me a lot on the fast chargers!), but it might show the power somewhere, too? Or maybe you're right and that's on the charging station screens..
@@EcceJackCould be on the App? As a hire vehicle, I don't get to use the App, which is a (expletive deleted) pain when so many features are only available that way.
Have you looked into using the open superchargers in the UK? Im not sure where you live, but there are quite a few of them spread about.
@@sebastianorye2702 I looked. I have installed and registered with the Tesla App, then found none of the open chargers were within 50 miles of any journey I've ever done in an EV. I'm guessing it's only the quiet locations that are open. Motorway services are still reserved for Teslas so their owners can stay in Smug Mode while the rest of us struggle with GridServe.
Edit: just checked again. The nearest to where I live is still 70km away, but there are now some nearish to the M6, which might be useful.
i love how the chargers are all on the side with no overhang to protect you from rain or snow. thank the gods i have a hybrid rav4. that aint gonna change in a very VERY long time.
3:51
Maybe I misunderstood, but most updated credit/debit cards today have the chip to use the tap to pay functionality, where you just tap the card itself.
Otherwise, you can use something like Samsung Pay to use the tap to pay by tapping your phone if your phone has an NFC chip (most do today). You just add your card info to the pay app like any other and then you can use your phone to tap to pay anywhere.
It's really great to see the contrast. The move to other manufacturers adopting Tesla charging seems to be the right direction to establish some sort of "standard" or at least consistency, which is a major thing that is needed. The idea of having a different app for each charging service you might be using is a huge turnoff for me.
This is exactly why I bought a Tesla. I've done 1000s of miles of trips and its been flawless.
A small correction on the ChargePoint stations at 11:32, unless those two were configured differently, you can pay by tapping a credit card on them. That's what I did on my first road trip since cell service was terrible in rural Maryland.
As in Western Maryland? The Frostburg, McHenry, and Friendsville chargers are wonderful additions and pretty reliable in our experience.
@@lagautmd yep, just not the best in cell service tho
IIRC, the main reason they're reliable is that they're state-operated, as opposed to being operated by some random corporation that has no incentive to keep them working after the PR boost of installing them runs out. @@lagautmd
That's what I do for ChargePoint as well. I loathe having to do anything app-wise with my phone so I've collected a series of membership cards to these stations.
@@thatjeff7550 my Ioniq 5 came with a ChargePoint card with the Hyundai logo on it in the glove box to add to my account. Which was nice because I had lost the one free card ChargePoint gives you and would've had to pay $5 for a new one otherwise.
I just did a 380 mile trip in my ID4 from VA to Upstate NY, even with temps at 20+ I had no issues. Others had issues as the chargers in Harrisburg were busy and people had to wait.
The unspoken frustration that many ppl like myself would have never known if it wasn’t for your video. I own a model Y and I figured the charge speed was standard for all EV CARS or better base in their charger labels but I guess that’s further from the truth. Thanks for the exposing information between the two
Tesla has opened up pretty much all of their charging stations here in Norway to everyone (unless you drive a Leaf, that is), and it's heavenly. Add all the other charging providers into the mix, and the picture gets even better. Tesla is by far the cheapest provider, though. Yes, I have to use the Tesla app, but just like their chargers, the app just...works and is very simple to set up and use. And the V4 chargers will also have longer cables and the possibility of paying using credit card. I went into EV ownership in May this year, and it's been excellent.
Yep, same here... All this video is showing is how bad the infrastructure is over there. Its like they are 10 years behind if you exclude Tesla chargers.
Tesla is the most popular auto in Norway. Crazy that an American car company is doing well in Europe.
Norway is oil rich right? Find it interesting you guys don't use gas guzzling V8's like the Saudi's do. It's quite nice to hear EV's being popular there
@@luisantoniostreams Norway does indeed have a fair bit of oil and gas. But big, thirsty cars have never been best sellers here, because they don't suit our roads very well, not to mention our fuel prices. We have a thriving Amcar scene, but that's an enthusiast thing.
When I was driving this summer around northeast Norway around Russia border and Hamningberg (very remote areas) I realise, unless Tesla was out of reach, it was pointless to event plug in the other charges when I stopped next to them.
To give you a small insight in to how this works in the Netherlands:
You make sure you have a charge card (and usually app) from your preferred provider (I have a shell recharge card) and that is linked to your bank account or credit card.
These cards can be either credit card shaped, or a smaller version teardrop.
It is accepted at just about all chargers in the country, and quite a lot in foreign countries too. Not just fast chargers, but all the public destination chargers as well.
One exception a.f.a.i.k. are the Tesla chargers. (Although they too have CSS connectors here)
If for whatever reason you either forgot your card or it doesn't work, there is usually a QR code on the machine to explain how to use it.
I haven't had my electric car for long, but I have found the network to work reasonably well. I would probably also have less of an issue with there not being a charger at work, if I had one at home....but as this electric car is only a temporary solution, I won't install a charger here just yet. Maybe when I get a 'permanent' electric car.
On a recent trip to Germany I did find their infrastructure with chargers to be lacking quite a bit.
The hotel I stayed at was in a sort of black spot, meaning the nearest 42kW charger was on the other side of the city. And this was advertised as a 150kW charger, but neither port was that quick. At the expo I went to, there were 2 charging points....for an expo hall visited by thousands.
Shell as in Shell oil? Ha, the American subsidiary would never do that
Yeah you're right, as a randstad resident who's had some EV trips to the north I can confirm it's basically like this. Slow chargers at almost every parking lot I see and fast chargers at almost every gas station. I actually have yet to see a supercharger though.
Also when the charger in our neighbourhood had one side die it only took a day after calling for the company to come and fix it.
@@agy234 Yes they have all the Petole stations so they have the cargersd
@@agy234 You know nothing, John Snow. All Gas and Oild companies are working with renewals, and looking desperated to greenwash their bad rep.
Does Shell Recharge have resonable roaming cost in Netherlands?
Cause where I live it's so crazy high that even though it's a company car I just can't justify spending over 1€/kwh to charge when downloading ap for the same charger it's down on 35c/kwh, usually charger with my own ap and send in the recipe instead.
For charging network I have zero issues, actually Tesla is one of the worst here and it's on the expensive side also so never even used it. Also never ever encountered a broken charger yet.
Excellent! very well explained. I learned a lot. The only thing that would have made it better to us non EV owners who may consider buying one in the future, would be......... How much of your time was spent on these trips recharging and what did it cost??? Everybody that wants an EV just so they can save the planet already has one. The rest of us are gonna wait until it is cheaper and/or more convenient than gas powered vehicles.
Are you able to precondition the battery? Because that can cause your charge rate to be slower until the battery warms up. With our Ioniq 5 when we don't warm up the battery we start at like 70 kW, but when we warm it up on a 150 EA charger we get around 130 immediately and have peaked above 150 a couple of times.
Tesla does that really well behind the scene when you use their navigation to select the next charger, but the other EVs are not as seamless. If you're just using google maps to go to the next charger you might be arriving with a cold battery.
As a Bolt owner, please know that while some people definitely don't know any better (or care), sometimes when you pull up, a 350kw charger is all that's available. Then when everyone else leaves, you are still charging there and it looks like you just don't care. If I'm sitting in my car and someone pulls up I might offer to switch chargers unless I only have a few minutes left. Basically all I'm saying is don't always assume the worst and freak out on someone...apparently there have already been some "charger fights" in the news.
And of course this is /your problem/ and you should change, instead of them just swapping once you leave like a normal well-adjusted person. Dang car-brained narcissists.
I used to own a bolt, currently an ID4, max speed was 125, while road tripping I pulled up to a EA station that was full, other then one 350kw charger, so, obviously I took it. 10 min later a EV6 owner showed up and decided to talk around the station berating me, and and another EV driver for taking the only slots open to us.
The most I've ever asked of someone at a DC station was when I had my Leaf, and one of the stations I used only had one CHADeMo connector, and I asked if the driver using the one stall that had a CHADeMo connector could swap to a different one if available. And I only did that because it was either that, or wait 20 minutes on top of the 45+ I would be sitting there charging. I was respectful about it, and they were happy to move. Especially since they didn't know that stall was only 100kW, while the others at that station were 150+.
This is the fault of the charging companies. All of the chargers at a site should be identical, making some 350 and others 150 is going to lead to exactly the conflicts that you describe. Tesla installs a single charger type, the only places you see both V2s and V3s are at locations that have been expanded but in your cases you will have a lot of chargers to close from, at least 16.
Mixing charger types is pennywise and pound foolish. If you have multiple chargers from multiple vendors you have to stock more replacement parts and manage a mishmash of software.
@@joshuarosen465 no, assholery because someone can't stand to bear waiting 10 extra min isn't the fault of the companies.
V4 Tesla superchargers have credit card readers and small screens and magic dock in the US. There is an install going in Sparks, NV. An owner spotted them sitting there and posted some pictures of them sitting in a corner waiting for install.
We have different issues in the UK - for chargers, we've already settled on a standard, that being Type 2 CCS. Some Asian manufacturers used CHAdeMO for a while but that's now being phased out in favour of Type 2. Now, why did Type 2 win over? Because it's compatible with 3-phase power that is far more common in the UK and Europe, and CCS compatible vehicles can support Type 2 AC and Type 2 CCS (DC) charging with one connector array. Even EU-sold Teslas use this instead of the Tesla/NACS connector.
The problem we do have, is upkeep and maintenance (and therefore availability) of chargers. Roll-out has been concentrated to London and service stations on the Motorway networks, but are incredibly sparse in some other areas. Some retailers and supermarkets set up banks of "free" chargers before the energy crisis and as maintenance contracts and warranties ran out, chargers gradually stopped working and now there's no interest to repair or replace them and some have been switched-off because the cost of energy has increased significantly with no easy way for the retailers to recoup their energy costs.
The cars are ahead of the infrastructure. And until people speak up and apply pressure to government and suppliers, little will be done to improve things. Imagine if the general public were told they had zero guarantee that they could refill their car at a petrol station and they depended on that vehicle to get about their day? There'd be mass hysteria.
Here in the UK it is the exact opposite because everyone with a CCS port can use most Tesla charging stations and the Tesla App allows you to filter out the charging stations that aren't yet accessible to everyone. By law, all public charging stations have to offer contactless payment, accept at least one roaming payment provider (so, even at Tesla, you don't necessarily have to pay through the Tesla app) and all rapid chargers have to have a 99%, or better, uptime. I drive a Smart #1 which has a CCS port - I've never owned a Tesla - but I still have and use a Tesla Supercharging membership to charge at preferential rates at Tesla Superchargers.
In Europe I tried to charge on Tesla Supercharger opened to no non-Tesla EVs. It was easy. Just added payment card to my profile (was saved for future occasions). Selected the correct stand and started charging. UI is better than with some local charging providers 😄