Metaverse graphics are BAD... but here's why
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- čas přidán 8. 05. 2024
- Are metaverse graphics bad, or have the various platforms just taken an intentionally simplistic approach to the art style? Either way, it's clearly quite divisive. In this video, I share my thoughts on why the metaverse looks this way.
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I'm Jon, an immersive experience designer and enthusiast of all things immersive and themed entertainment. I make videos about themed attractions, virtual reality and experiential design. I also write a weekly newsletter about these topics (www.jon-bradley.com/). - Věda a technologie
By "bad graphics" I don't think I mean "low poly", but rather stuff like "bland", "corporate" and "not stylish"
For as low graphics as minecraft has, it is absurdly stylish, to the point that you can recognize its style even in non minecraft related stuff
Without context, I don't think I'd be able to tell the metaverse apart
i agree 100%. low poly can be stylish depending on how it's implemented. metaverse feels like nintendo style knock-off store assets that have been untouched, very liminal.
Yep, it's like early Unity graphics, but even worse + more stripped down
Thanks for the comment, MANDRO. Are you talking about Horizon Worlds or the metaverse as a concept that includes various platforms?
I think low poly is getting old for many. I imagine most gamers appreciate & want good and quality graphics, there's simply an _exception_ out there with a few modern games. That's cause their games have a stronger FUN element, like very old games like PacMan or Asteroids w/ outdated graphics for example. Metaverse is simply cheap & wants to make money with the lowest effort.. so they convinced themselves that this is "stylish." Well the results are speaking for themselves, and Zuckerberg & his fellow cohorts could not have turned out more wrong. The ultra-wide majority opinion out there is that Metaverse graphics are plain & boorish, so many are shouting this criticism for a reason, & it's like this Bradley dude is deaf to it
I can not tell you how refreshing it is to hear calm, rational, thoughtful takes on Meta's version of the metaverse. I know hating on Meta is the popular thing right now and can easily lead to a lot of clicks, so thank you for expressing your thoughts and seeing the entire picture (which spans into the next decade) and not simply giving a hot take.
Thanks Xavier
Have to disagree. I'm an artist and I've worked in games for years. Saying "bad graphics" might be how a normie expresses what they're seeing, but it's actually bad design. Meta made specific choices about how the worlds in HW's look and it's not necessarily a hardware limitation. It's just crappy design. I think maybe they just went for something generic thinking that would appeal to the most people, but yea, didn't play out like that.
To expand on the performance point: It’s fine for a flat game to run at as little as 30 fps, but a VR app should ideally run at a minimum of 90 fps to avoid motion sickness, _and_ it needs to generate a stereoscopic image at that, bumping the number of frames that need to be generated per second up to 180. Now add to that the fact that Horizon Worlds is designed to run on mobile hardware - they already had to drop support for the original Quest.
Thanks TomSFox for the additional info!
This just proves that they need to innovate CPU and GPU first before making anything about metaverse.
I think the real problem with the Zuck is not the product they created but the high expectation they themselves put against the product they created. The different promotional videos of people floating while playing cards with a robot or Zuck changing the two legged digital avatar clothes was something people took literally like "wow, Ready player one, here we go", then, you are given the Horizons, which is a cartoonish lego-looking world too far from what he promised. You see, obviously, people compared and thought it was a scam. It was just terrible marketing and that explains why no none complains other cartoonish metaverses but this. I have been unable to try Horizons world, but tried Horizons Venues, and it was nice. If they had offered this metaverse as an extension of the Venues, the expectation would have been a lot closer to what we have seen, and we would have even enjoyed the progress in the development. The ones that should be fired from Meta are the idiots that produced that stupid marketing campaign, trying to 'steal' the metaverses concept.
can we use Horizon world in another county ( India ) with quest 2?
my main issue with metaverse is, that i can see how it also could be. I mean, let's be honest, metas metaverse is basically an vrchat clone. it does the same thing as vrchat, but is by an bigger company, more restrictive in who can join and what they can do and... simply looks worse.
Expanding on what other people said (@TomSFox and @MANDRO): I completely agreee that there's a stylistic part that is also being left out. Horizon could have made something pretty beautiful with the low polygons they had, I mean look at the Nintendo 64 era. Barely any polygons, but tons of style. Their soulless style with little graphical artistic touch is what makes it look awful, not the fidelity of the graphics.
Great video!
Thanks Brixter! I appreciate the perspective. As somebody else said, it seems like Meta played it very safe for advertisers with Horizon Worlds. Someone suggested I do a VRChat video (which I shot yesterday) and that is the exact opposite!
Well done, you are a voice of reason and you make great points. Considering a typical gamer graphics card is bigger and heavier than an entire quest2 its no wonder the graphics are different. People forget that horizon etc are being rendered entirely on the headset without a pc. That tiny device is computing the graphics, audio, physics, ui, tracking positions and all that without a pc… thats freaking amazing. The advancement isnt just in the field of VR, its wearable computing. :D
Well, maybe that's a principle design fault in this product?
Maybe Zuck should have been so greedy to get it all and instead have cooperated with device creators to let a PC or Console do the rendering and the Oculus just the displaying?
Well done video! Yeah, I'm cautiously optimistic about this whole metaverse thing. But it's also exciting to be on the ground floor as it's taking shape.
Thank Nick. I think I line up with you on cautious optimism. I think the metaverse is an interesting experiment that is probably inevitable, but it won't be the product of just one company
New sub! I’m curious how it is, loved watching with you playing, look forward to more videos of this world!
Thanks Charles! Got another exploring the metaverse video coming next weekend.
I think the biggest reason I dislike how horizon worlds looks like is because I am used to high fidelity VRChat worlds. It's hard coming from a very immersive social VR game to a much more primitively designed platform. Even with my current position, I am optimistic that Meta will eventually create a platform that is much more visually impressive as hardware slowly improves.
I just shot a VRChat video which will be up this weekend. It definitely has more visual variety than Horizon Worlds
On principle, you're right...
...but why should I be willing to bother with a cumbersome and expensive VR set, when I can have a so much better experience on my old style flat screen?
How can you seriously talk about burned 18 billion as "just the beginning"?
Look at how much more other companies got done with a fraction of that investment.
And why should it be easier for most creators to be locked on an uninspired, ugly cooperate art style?
Hell, the housing in some Online Games is more beautiful and inspiring.
If there's no freedom in creation in one place, why should anyone start creating there?
It is so comforting to hear that I am not the only one still believing in Metaverse. I do also feel optimistic that despite all the criticism and problems this will be a vital thing in the future. Such clear and well done video to remind us why we believe in this.
For me:
1. Thats not Bad Graphics or even Basuc. Its just empty and plain. Too plain. Minecraft at least tried to blend it with biomes, ambience and lightning to day/night cycle. Metaverse world is so static felt like unfinished VR games.
2. Performance, yes they tried to cater everyone possible but they forgot uf someone have problems with their PC performance, usually they also dont have VR. Actual working VR is expensive in some countries and hard to get. Dont forget to kention the GPU supporting it also expensive especially when crypto was a thing (thank god they actually start to died out one by one) GPU support VR harder to find and it was Expensive AF since only available by poachers. And bcd of this number of VR Set also minimal. So for the sake of performance? Well if VR is cheap enough maybe its a valid reason.
3. And there is already better alternatives, like VR Chat that social media and game also. Plus it have more features, games, graphics, freedom of avatar looks, etc. Metaverse just arrived too late to this vr world landscapes.
4. The NFT, we all know how scummy it is and they tried to living from it. So already turn off for some people. And with that low playerbase and sub par graphics. Fashion, Gadgets, Vehicles, etc. Will shy out since theres no way their digital product will look the same as IRL counterpart or what they envision is.
So metaverse just arrived too late for today VR market, too soon since VR isnt as mainstream as smartphones.
The graphic are bad , because the artist bad . That's all .
Facebook just make a mistake that a lots game maker made , chose wrong art style to develop they game.
Vrchat looks like AAA games on some worlds people created
They’re even optimised well if they care enough
If vrchat can do it, a game with billions less of funding
The metaverse can…
Vrchat also has cooler, more customisable avatars
You can really FEEL like you ARE your avatar
Also actual legs-
I can have lighthouse tracked legs for pretty cheap nowadays if you do it right
And I do
The metaverse is lacking everything that makes any other social vr game good.
There’s no reason to play it
Also none of the features they’ve been Boston’s about are even close to being done
And you can’t defend it by saying “it’s in its early stages” they’ve bought up like a dozen of amazing vr studios and have virtually infinite money to do it
And yet they’ve barely made any progress-
This video confuses what people object to, taking Minecraft as an example, not realizing that Minecraft still looks a lot better than Metaverse.
It's the difference between Super Mario 64 and something that looks like a Unity store asset flip. Even though the latter has more polygons, it arguably looks more dated than an old game.
And here's the thing. This video confuses graphics with more polygons. No, it's a combination of proper lighting, texturing and compositing. Note that I don't even mention the quality of these things. Even with lower quality textures it's possible to make a really good looking game.
Vr chat is the metaverse
@@GaryKertopermono Windwaker is a great example of good looking low poly graphics !
VRChat wasn’t designed for mobile headsets.
@@TomSFox
the problem is the community not optimizing their stuff
not the game itself
just hang out in quest lobbies with well performing avatars, and you're fine
also, no one is stopping meta from making a vrchat clone with less creative features and better optimization
but no one would play it since vrchat is just better in every way
meta CAN'T compete, they sunk billions into this money pit and made a unity asset flip-
like explain to me, how do you fuck up so bad, I'm genuinely confused
also vrchat not being designed for mobile headsets is a very good thing, since it has a very large community of creators making stuff for it every day using unity, you can't do that with the metaverse
even bonelab has custom mod support which you can create on a pc and import on the quest
(also bonelab looks and runs great on the quest)
I have no idea how meta is this far behind stress level zero and the VRC dev team
also also
you can get away with running on 60 fps
and 40 fps if it's for a short period of time
Even the newest headsets are in most cases using previous gen phone tech to process graphics. This is why your new phone will cost anywhere between 600-1300 bucks while the Quest 2 will "only" cost you $400. And phone tech gfx are intended to be displayed on a 4-5" screen. When you use that same tech to process a 360 degree environment, major corners need to be cut. It's like if you've ever watched a bluray movie at a full size theatre: it looks perfectly good on a smaller screen, but on that big screen, it looks pretty jaggy and noisy. I bought a Quest, and while some games look better than others, these weaknesses are very clear on every game. They compensate with bright colors and gameplay that accommodates these limitations. But there's no real game in Metaverse to distract you from these first-gen Wii-like graphics. IMO, as it sits, it's a product that gives you more than you need, but also not much of what you want. It's basically Zoom except you don't get to actually see the person you're talking to and a terrible interface. There's no reason to use this for business matters over a standard video conferencing system, since everything it offers over those systems are complete distractions.
Low poly, low textures, low soul.
🤣
I think low poly is getting old for many. I imagine most gamers appreciate & want good and quality graphics, there's simply an _exception_ out there with a few modern games. That's cause their games have a stronger FUN element, like very old games like PacMan or Asteroids w/ outdated graphics for example. Metaverse is simply cheap & wants to make money with the lowest effort.. so they convinced themselves that this is "stylish." Well the results are speaking for themselves, and Zuckerberg & his fellow cohorts could not have turned out more wrong. The ultra-wide majority opinion out there is that Metaverse graphics are plain & boorish, so many are shouting this criticism for a reason, & it's like this Bradley dude is deaf to it
I feel bad for anyone who is not a dev lol while being a dev and playing plugged in 247 with 8k Res and 200 FPS
To me it isn't about the graphics being bad or low poly, it is about the avatars specifically. There doesn't seem to be soul or character in the avatars. They have clearly been designed by a corporate panel and the artists probably didn't have too much say in it. It was clearly designed to be "safe" and "sensitive" for corporate environments, which I can understand, but they have that typical Xbox 360 childish vibes which I also personally disliked. I think the company ReadyPlayerMe is one the right track as their avatars have a little more "character" if you will, unfortunately they still have a very limited set of character customisation options. Personally I think Epic's Fortnite game have some amazing semi low-poly but characterful faces. They do have amazing artists mind you. So my point is there are great examples of low poly avatars/characters out there and I think Meta simply didn't do enough research towards more likeable avatars overall.
Good point. I just shot a VRChat video and that is the exact opposite when it comes to avatars. I think you're right that Meta took a safe route
Meta and Metaverse as words needs to die. It’s almost as cringe as influencer.
Also Zuck has destroyed his company and this BS won’t take off with graphics from 20+ years ago. If you can’t get the graphical requirements high enough with your headset then you have failed. It’s not like they are selling it for $99. It’s as much as a computer or phone. Either sell the headset as a lost leader to get users or make the price and value up to par to other electronics.
No one wants a ugly headache inducing VR machine that only works for 2 hours max and has graphics worst that Minecraft. This is a fail on soooo many levels it’s likely not recoverable. The tech is at least 5 years away from mainstream and in that time Facebook will be broke and Horizon worlds will be gone.
@@JustinWilliams-ed2ug ummm, they do have “a cord you can plug in.” You can use it in tethered mode as long as you want, and play pc games if you want or use it for multiple virtual monitors… OR unplug it from your laptop and use it without a computer or wires.
Unfortunately the graphics are fine, it’s just soulless.
Ehh… I don’t think Facebook/Meta is going to be the company that makes VR mainstream. Not just the graphics, but the UI and implementation of it all. Once PS5 VR2 comes out, and a company like Apple gets involved, more developers will get on board with creating AAA content… I like my Quest , but it’s graphics leave a lot to be desired.
agree with you. graphic is not top priority, buy users are
I don't agree, I have the impression that in order to keep people in the universe like in a game, the graphics have to be beautiful... To get users you need to have exclusive events on the platform and what can meta offer that is unique to the experience? at the moment I don't see anything exceptional.
I agree about the exclusive events
YOU BEAT ME TO THIS VIDEO D: Good job! But i do agree!
Thanks! You should still make your video. I would like to hear your take
@@jbradley Yeah! I think I will work on it soon!
You are much better looking than your avatar, Jon. You can buff him up a bit, especially around the eyes, make them more intelligent. :)
Very well said. I'm so sick of all these youtubers who just follow the crowd and trash on horizon worlds. This video was really good and objective!
meta bad
comment bad
@@jbradley creator mad
It is not new, it has existed for years.. meta just no clue what they want with it and coem up with theoretical usecases hoping evryone just hops on and figure it out ..
it's not for performace mate. their oculus can run way more than that crap.. even devices from the 90s can run that crap and more.
Shall I do a video trying to run Horizon Worlds on a 90s VR headset?
you are speaking like VR is something new, "everything has to start somewhere". the reason for the backlash is because it is crap when compared to the technology we have today, proven tech, proven graphics, proven performance.
But it IS new. These graphics are being run on a wearable device smaller and lighter than a typical graphics card in a desktop pc. And that device does more than a graphics card, it is also handling all the game logic, physics, audio, tracking data etc… plus doing it once per eye at 90hz framerates. All while costing less than many phones, far less than pcs or laptops, and on battery power and without getting so hot it melts your face off. Thats… amazing…
The concept of the metaverse and the platforms is quite new. Metaverse worlds (whether that's Horizon Worlds, Roblox or VRChat) are built by a lot of individuals who are learning how to do make good experiences, like the first CZcamsrs had to figure out how to make good short form web videos
The biggest failure of all metaverses.... nobody wants them. 95% of all the things in the metaverse I can already do with it.
What's the other 5%?