FFXV Episode Ignis - What Got Lost in Dubbing Translation
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- čas přidán 30. 12. 2017
- Let me just say that I don't really think the English dub is wrong at all (forgive the clickbait) - I think it's a valid interpretation of the original text and a pretty good one at that. I actually quite like the dub and its changes. However, I'm also aware that a lot of people have no idea how different the English and the Japanese versions can be and while I can make the distinction and enjoy both, a lot of people are stuck with the English version and have no way of knowing what is said in the original. That's why I made this video - to bridge the gap created by the dubtitles in Final Fantasy XV which don't really tell you what the Japanese writers had in mind when they were creating this DLC and the dialogue for it. This way the fans of the game can choose which version they prefer most, and above all, they are informed that the versions do in fact differ and the English is not a direct translation - and sometime that can really show, whether you consider that a good thing or a bad one. Because if there's anything fans deserve, it's knowledge and awareness of stuff that is right in front of their eyes but stuff they cannot understand due to the language barrier.
- Krátké a kreslené filmy
![Yuri on Stage - The Chihoko Drama [Eng Sub]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GlCZr7fG3fM/mqdefault.jpg)
![Cherry Blossom's Seiyuu Talks About His Role (Sk8 Ep 9 Aftertalk) [Eng Sub]](/img/n.gif)
I don't actually play ffxv oops, but this breakdown is fascinating! The emotional tone completely changes in some parts according to which version you follow. I'll be discussing line by line, if that won't be too long lol. EDIT: it was really long otl
(2:48) The contrast of Ignis framing loss in the past versus in the future makes quite a difference. The dub ("We've already lost so much. Too much.") sounds far more subdued; Ignis is reflecting on what is already gone, and we can infer that he is certainly grieving for it, if not ready to give up. He sounds tired. On the other hand, the original ("I fear we'll lose something much greater if we keep going. So---") is full of uncertainty and apprehension; he's worried that the worst is yet to come. He's not resigned to tragedy, he's having a crisis of faith in their ability to overcome the obstacle. He's not ready to give up, he's trying to convince himself and Noct that they /should/.
I think Noct's response should have also been in blue haha. The dub makes him sound like such a straightforward shonen hero! It's not bad, of course, but it is quite resolute. He's certain that he mustn't give up because surely then it would waste the terrible sacrifices that have been made. The tone of the dub is reproachful; he's telling Ignis that he should know better than to give up. The original though... The line could be a rhetorical question Noct is using to scold Ignis, but Suzuki-san's anguished delivery makes me think otherwise. He's lashing out because he's grieving, and it's also a serious question. "What did everyone die for?" I think that's the key part that we should be paying attention to. Noctis doesn't know! That's what hurts him, the idea that the people he cares about have died for no reason at all; not giving up is the last thing that makes sense so he's clinging to it. This desperation completely lacks the surety of the dub's response. His last "Don't /you/ fucking say that..." in the original supports this interpretation, I think. I'm curious as to whether the italics on "you" are your choice of emphasis or inherent in the Japanese? Either way, it sounds like a plea for Ignis to stop making him doubt his purpose; like I said before, right now it seems like continuing on and MAKING meaning for those sacrifices is the only comfort Noct has left.
(3:28) LOL the dub makes Ignis sound so reluctant. Noct too!!! Fun? I mean, I guess we had some, maybe... What's the point of this mutual tsundere posturing hahaha. The original is more straightforward, that's all I have to say. In both versions, it sounds like Noctis is getting ready to die *cries* If I had to point out anything, the original sounds more like a solid reassurance that Ignis does not regret following Noctis than just reminiscence.
(3:49) Ignis gets to say half of what he wants in the dub, but he tragically doesn't get to say anything in the original! Noct cuts him off and is tacitly refusing Ignis's offer to die(?) with him in both. The original, in my opinion, highlights Noct's deep, implicit understanding of Ignis; Iggy doesn't even need to say anything and Noct already understands what he means.
(3:58) The dub ("Why stop now?") is so impish. What a jokester, that Noct, talking a big talk. The huff of laughter in the original serves a similar purpose, I think? Noct is trying to lighten the mood. Or he's acknowledging the absolute devastation that must be apparent on Ignis's face and attempting to comfort him. You know, either one. The laugh seems gentler than the joke though.
(4:03) English dub why would you drive the thorn further into Iggy's heart! Don't remind him that he won't be by Noct's side!! The original version sure is Noct being more tactful jeez
(4:31) The dub and the original are very similar in this case. But the original is so much more poignant! (it's like you can see my clear bias...) The dub is him refusing to be saved at Noct's expense and placing the blame squarely on the shoulders of our antagonist here. I don't think the writers meant it this way, but it can be interpreted that it might still be acceptable for Noct to sacrifice himself for some other cause, just not this one (aka their safety). The original is him rejecting FOREVER every single future in which it is possible for Noct to die/be sacrificed, full stop. Man is railing against the world, against fate, against everything. The world being saved or whatever is incidental. Noct is all that matters. Noctis living is the ultimate goal, the world can burn.
(4:40) The syntax of the dub ("Even if it costs my own life...") makes it sound like Ignis values his life in relation to Noct's. "I can pay that price for his safety." He's weighed his life against Noct's, and decided that the latter is more important. But woah does the original not do that! The original makes Iggy's focus so single-minded in its intensity that he's probably not even thinking about his life. It actually seems that, to Ignis, his life or death is completely inconsequential in the face of saving Noct. There's no weighing or possibility of indecision; if it saves Noct, it's a given that he'll do it. Both are unhealthy ways of thinking, and the original is the unhealthiest. *so much crying*
(5:31) Dub makes it sound like this was due to a momentary lapse in judgment. He's doubting his role as the hero, because the hero should be able to protect his loved ones. Failing to do that, he feels like a fake. Maybe he's wondering why this role was pushed onto him when obviously he can't do it correctly. Original is Noct adding to his self-blame by making it a fundamental flaw in his character. "I wasn't good enough this time" (dub) VERSUS "I'm never good enough" (orig.) To build off what Noct says a line later ("I kept sulking..."), he's deeply regretting what he sees as his earlier immaturity and thus, wasted time that could have been used to get stronger. Both are pretty painful self-recriminations.
(5:55) See this is the conviction-gap I was talking about at the beginning! The dub has Noct talking like a shonen protagonist again. The overall effect of the previous lines added with this one implies that up until now, he's known what he's doing. He believed that he was fulfilling that "savior" role, but is now disillusioned. A key factor here is that the syntax in the dub ("You guys have stayed with me") gives agency to Gladio, Prompto, and Iggy. They stayed because they chose to. Noct is beating himself up because he feels like he can't repay their loyalty and friendship with anything other than pain. The original takes that self-blame to a new level! Noct is blaming himself for not having conviction in the first place. He's blaming himself for not having all the answers. And he's blaming himself for having the gumption of being ignorant and still dragging his friends into this mess. It's possible that Noct has secretly felt all along that all this tragedy is because of him. His self-blame is to the point that he's doubting (not intentionally) the loyalty and friendship that bind all four of them together. We know that Gladio, Prompto, and Iggy would never leave Noct's side for anything, but I feel like Noct thinks that he's forced them to stay.
(6:21) The dub literally says that Noct promises that he'll stop causing his friends pain. Hopefully this means he intends to live along with them once he's done whatever needs to be done. The original makes no such promises; it's just his dearest wish and maybe a prayer to boot. No guarantees that he won't sacrifice himself for that wish.
(7:03) I think the effect of these two lines is the same actually. Ardyn is mocking Ignis either way.
(7:58) I think both are good! The dub is ambiguous. Who is "him"? Ignis is reaching out a hand after Ardyn, so does he mean that he doesn't want to die without taking Ardyn with him? Or does he mean that he doesn't want to die without seeing Noct one last time? It's a mystery! And pretty damn tragic when "last words" get cut off like that. You'll never know what he meant. The original is also tragic. *clutches chest* It's such a heartrending moment to see and hear his despair over his mortality. He realized how much he has to live for at the moment of his death and that regret and helplessness are the last things Ignis ever gets to experience. I'm so upset.
I guess overall I preferred the Japanese original because I think it leaves more space for the characters to be vulnerable and flawed in very human ways. Of course, the way Noct and Iggy are written in the English dub ironically makes them more well-adjusted emotionally (which always a plus when you want characters to be happy dammit), but where's the drama in that haha.
Mannnnn, I live for comments like this, that's exactly what I was hoping to see.
Thank you for this ! I always wondered about this while playing any Square Enix game in Japanese with subs, and while I'm not 100% fluent in Japanese alot of my favorite Seiyuus were in these games so I need to play it with Japanese dub, but even I could tell there's alot of liberties taken with the subtitles, they didn't even try to hide it as if they didn't expect non-Japanese to play these games in Japanese.
Well, I do think that they didn't expect non-Japanese to play the game in Japanese and that most Western players choose to play the game in English (except for a lot of German and French fans, probably), because it's easier than having your eyes "glued to the screen" and having to focus so much on reading and I get it on one hand because yeah, it would be hard to focus on the game for someone who isn't used to reading subtitles and doesn't understand the language the characters are speaking and so the subtitles are the only way they can understand the story. And Squenix probably thinks that "meh, the dub translation is good enough so why bother making another one" and I also get that - they have a limited amount of hands and translators, they probably can't spare one to translate all dialogues in a more accurate way. I also honestly think that the English dub is an alright translation and in the main game, everything comes across just fine and not much is lost but I also just *wish* that they would have made subtitles with an accurate Japanese translation so that Japanese-speakers and non-Japanese speakers who still prefer to play the original version could get the same gaming experience, and honestly I can't say that was the case here.
Anyway TL;DR: I understand why they did what they did but it is somewhat disappointing because I will always prefer accuracy over something that's "good enough, I guess".
Sorry for the long comment. xD
PLEASE do more of these, I always want to know a better translation for ffxv stuff! It breaks my heart that they cant just translate like you have where it makes sense and holds the same meaning. Thank you for this, it was awesome to understand what the original team's vision was for the iggy endings!
I'd love to do more of these but I unfortunately can't remember any other major changes. :'D If you have any suggestions though, I'd love to look into them. ^^
Thanks for this! I could tell the subs were off and was really desperate to know what really was being said.
I don't think it changes much but i do prefer the Japanese dub cuz Noctis and Ignis's seiyuus are two of my favorites.
Yeah, I agree, they're great. :3
Hola (*♡*)/ Quería agradecerte por tu trabajo al identificar esas faltas que se comenten al traducir o doblar algo (en este caso anime y videojuegos) y sería un placer ver más de tu trabajo en otros animes que hayas podido identificar estos errores.
Pd. Siempre es un placer escuchar la voz de Miyano Mamoru 😂
Thank you for doing this!! What I noticed: in Eng version they seem to push the brotherhood relationship more?
Yeah, I also think so, I think they're almost making it melodramatic like "Look how close they are! Look how much they mean to each other! LOOK!" Of course, Noctis and Ignis are really close and are really important to one another but the Japanese version shows that in a much more natural, much subtler way. That's how I see it, at least. :D
More of this Please !
I'd love to, but what would you like it to be about? I'm open to suggestions, since I don't have any ideas of my own at the moment. :D
Thanks for this. Although I'm not fluent in Japanese (still learning), I did wonder why some things didn't seem right while playing FFXV with Jap Dub and subs on. I hate when the proper translation isn't use because it will cause confusion and wrong interpretation of the dialogue. Happy New Year!
Sorry I'm late but happy new year. :D
I don't play the English Version, so most of the time I don't get what's going on when I see English Memes or lines from the English Dub. I play the German Version and again I noticed that the German Version (dub and sub) is extremely
close to the Japanese. For example in the English Version of Episode Ignis, Noctis says: How could I let this happen? This is all my fault.
In the Japanese it's: It's all my fault... It's because I'm weak.
In the German Dub it's: Alles meine Schuld. Weil ich zu schwach bin. Translated it's: All my fault. Because I'm too weak. So yeah I'm kinda glad that the German Version tries to be as close as possible to the original.
Yeah I listened to some of the German version and I think it's really good. ^^ Might even be better than the English version when it comes to the voice-acting haha. The translation, like you said, also seems more accurate. (I do know some German, but I'm not fluent fyi.)
Thank you so much for your video.
Because a couple of my favorite seiyuus are voicing, I ended up just playing the game with the Japanese audio on. However, with my very poor limited skill level of japanese, even I was able to catch the differences in translation between what the Japanese audio is saying in comparison to the eng script I'm seeing on my screen. And, the liberty the eng script takes to complicate and dramatize.
Don't get me wrong, the eng script works very well playing with the English audio because it is the script of the dub. I like it. However, it just doesn't work when playing with the Japanese audio when your ears can tell the differences (or sort-of tell for people like me who's not 100% fluent, but is able to understand half-time).
Yeah, I get what you mean. I'd play the game and listen to what they were saying and read the subtitles at the same time and sometimes they did NOT match up at all and I was just squinting at the screen, trying to make sense of this sensory overload of not-quite-matching information lol. It was a little annoying sometimes but I managed to make it work, somehow haha.
Thanks for the comment. :D
I think what’s impressive is that the message still gets across. That Ignis doesn’t want to lose Noctis. You’ve just spent an entire DLC...of *everything* this man would do to keep Noctis alive, so I like how even in the English dub the message is still clear of WHY he is suggesting they stop, but I do like the blue more because it’s even more clear. “I feel that will lose something much greater if we keep going” is a direct reference to Noct’s death that he foresaw. In the English dub, he’s not talking about the future, but the present day and so he’s just mentioning what’s transpired, and doesn’t hint at all what he recently saw in his vision. But in the Japanese dub, because he references it, it’s kind of like he’s not taking everyone else into account like he’s doing in the English dub. It’s kind of like he’s expressing his own worries; primarily, not wanting Noctis to die.
“Don’t *you* fucking say that” Sounds… more angry but also more sorrowful.
I'm late to this video but I've noticed for a long time that Japanese Noctis is more brash and rude with his words compared to English Noctis, who is more humble and polite. The only difference to me is that Japanese Noctis lets his feelings out the most.
Wow I didn't know that it was so different. I think this also the case with Episode Prompto? A friend of mine told me that there is a huge difference between the English and the Japanese Version of Episode Prompto. I would love to know if this is true. If you have the time and could you do also a Video about it? Because I find it extremely interesting how much Story/Character content is lost due to translation/dubbing.
Hm, I do remember some minor differences, but I think the gist was similar in the end. I can check Ep Prompto for any major differences if I have the time and then I'll see what I can do. :)
What is the background song playing at 7:30 - 7:59 ish?
It's like exactly you said, it changes to fit well, but it almost means the same things, the only one that hurt was the last one xd when in the english version Ignis says "I don't want to die WITHOUT HIM" and on the japanese he just says "I don't want to die" xd, but oh well
Oh, and I don't know almost anything of japanese, but I feel you, because I really know well english and spanish, so when I play ffxv, I have the dub in english always because I love it, and sometimes I have the sub in spanish, and it's true, the translation is never exact, because I have seen a lot of changes with the sub in spanish and the dub in english xd it's very common I guess
Oh wow, the direct translation really shows how much Ignis is unwilling to accept the timeline shown to him. He's known everything from the begining but with the alternate ending the subs kinda miss the weight of Ignis rejecting the future planned ahead and are more of him still standing by Noctis until the end. Not bad changes but interesting when you consider the tone changes made for the sake of english translation.
See, I kinda knew what they were saying, knowing at least some Japanese, but I was mostly going by the subs... I knew certain parts were completely off, it adds a whole new depth to it when you see exactly what they're saying.
Any chance of doing this analysation for Nier?
I would say that a lot of the differences even in the video are minor and generally mean the same things. Especially in the first ending. It's more wording differences, and the way the sentences are said makes a lot of sense for how American English discussions would go. (Which is probably the type of English they were patterning Noct after given his voice actor.). They mean the same things. The alternate ending, especially with Noct's lines, is much less over the top and soap opera-ish than what is in the English version though. The gist is the same, but I think the Japanese version fits a bit better with the serious tone of the scene.
Hm, I do think you have a point, but I also feel like there's sooomething there that non-Japanese speakers are missing out on. The gist definitely comes across but I definitely felt something was missing. Whether these changes are major or minor is probably subjective, but this way the viewers can decide for themselves. :)
I used to think in episode Ignis(eng dub version), something felt a little off and Ignis felt a little out of character? Even though the change is quite minor, the original made more sense and felt more natural
I got this feeling they tried to translate the essence of the sentence and put it together,making it sound more epic. But sometimes they just didn't put the meaning just as accurate as needed ^^ I guess playing my native language German is more accurate than English tho, I hate it when the meaning behind something said is lost because translation :/ but Square Enix tries at least.
Nice vid, you should do the same with Nier Automata.
I still haven't played Nier Automata, but I do own it. Give me a few months and I might just do one. :D
Anyone know a site or so that has dedicated themselves to accurately translate most, if not all in the game?
I really want to know what they actually say and write, not the localised crap they claim ‘the fans want’
To be fair, most of thew script isn't SIGNIFICANTLY different, except for some minor character banter, I honestly thought the Ep Ignis stuff was the most different between languages
you're an angel.. im by no means fluid but from watching mostly subbed anime ive picked up on what words mean, and deifferent inflections having diifferent emotion behind them n the english subs for this NEVER match the tone or wats actually said most the time
Imo I don't think that the changes are that bad. PS: I played the game in German and English and wanted to play it in Japanese but I hate Ardyns Japanese voice.
A great video though I think there was no need to justify this translation. It really is awful and sometimes simply wrong. And it's important to clearly state that it's terrible, otherwise we will always get translations like this. For example, this part of the main game:
JP: これは 友としての約束
Eng translation: Thus it is promised between the Oracle and her familiar.
What was actually said: This is a promise between friends.
There is a huge difference between "a familiar" and "a friend".
While playing I had a feeling that they read the JP text once and wrote what they remembered. And in case they didn't, they just put something that might suit the scene.
I always play with English dubs, so it's interesting seeing the original translation of the Japanese. I still don't feel like I missed anything by only knowing the dub version because I feel the gist is still there and the English voice cast rocked it, but I'm sure it sucks for the people who preferred the Japanese literal translations better. Thanks for making this!
I feel the same. Everything said has the same meaning. It's really just some of the nuance that changes.
I absolutely hate how Square Enix always uses the English dub's script as the subtitles for the Japanese dub instead of providing proper translation. It's too fucking lazy and makes me wish JRPGs just don't get English dubbed !
I think they might just be understaffed or pressed for time, but yes, I also find it unfortunate because it may change people experiences with the game a lot. :(