Let's Solve ONLY MURDERS IN THE BUILDING season 3 episode 9 'Thirty' Recap Review Explained Theory
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- čas přidán 5. 08. 2024
- Who killed Ben Glenroy? Do we have ANY clues to who pushed Ben down the elevator? Was he pushed? Which of the Pickwick Triplets Did It? We review the latest twists in ONLY MURDERS IN THE BUILDING Season 3, Episode 9 "Thirty" - while we get Donna's charges dropped!
00:00 Intro
00:02 Trial of Donna DeMeo
02:24 Let's Solve Only Murders in the Building
03:09 Thank You! Call To Action
03:44 Season 4 Clue?
04:28 Credit Clue Easter Eggs
04:44 OMTIB Screenwriter / Author Peter Swanson
05:34 Listeners who don't enjoy Season 3
07:47 Victim Profile: Ben Glenroy aka CoBro
08:37 Loretta
09:26 Donna
10:29 Cliff
11:25 Dickie
12:22 Tobert
12:48 K.T.
13:32 Howard
13:57 Oliver
14:14 Charles
14:34 Bloody Mabel
14:51 Feedback
19:14 Outstanding Questions
The murder mystery/true crime podcast spoof with Steve Martin, Martin Short and Selena Gomez! Upper West Side neighbors Charles, Oliver and Mabel bond over a shared love of true crime. Having amassed a plethora of clues, suspects and theories but no concrete answers about Ben's murder, the trio devise a peculiar method of recreating the final moments of his life.
Do you watch on Disney+, Hulu or Star+? Did we miss any clues?
Twitter/Instagram/Threads: @DoublePHQ
/ doublephq
#onlymurdersinthebuilding #bloodymabel
#OnlyMurders #ONLYMURDERS IN THE BUILDING Explained ONLY MURDERS IN THE BUILDING Recap ONLY MURDERS IN THE BUILDING Review ONLY MURDERS IN THE BUILDING Theory Theories s3e9 s03e09
Directed by
Cherien Dabis
Writing Credits
Steve Martin ... (created by) &
John Hoffman ... (created by)
Elaine Ko ... (written by)
Ben Philippe ... (executive story editor) &
Joshua Allen Griffith ... (executive story editor)
Noah Levine ... (staff writer) &
Jake Schnesel ... (staff writer)
Cast (in credits order)
Steve Martin ... Charles-Haden Savage
Martin Short ... Oliver Putnam
Selena Gomez ... Mabel Mora
Michael Cyril Creighton ... Howard Morris
Andrea Martin ... Joy
Tina Fey ... Cindy Canning
Ryan Broussard ... Will
Jackie Hoffman ... Uma
Da’Vine Joy Randolph ... Detective Williams
James Caverly ... Theo Dimas
Gerald Caesar ... Ty
Linda Emond ... Donna Demeos
Allison Guinn ... K.T.
Ashley Park ... Kimber
Don Darryl Rivera ... Bobo
Paul Rudd ... Ben Glenroy
Jeremy Shamos ... Dickie
Meryl Streep ... Loretta Durkin
Wesley Taylor ... Cliff Demeos
Jason Veasey ... Jonathan
Noma Dumezweni ... Maxine
Jesse Williams ... Tobert
Adrian Martinez ... Gregg
Jayne Houdyshell ... Bunny Folger
Joel Waggoner ... Tom
Wai Ching Ho ... Mei Mei
Marylouise Burke ... Trixie
Ashanti J'Aria ... Dr. Turbovsky
Caitlin Hammond ... Girl Cop
Gerrard Lobo ... Detective Biswas
Harry Sutton Jr. ... Doctor Douglas
Matthew Broderick
Mel Brooks
Produced by
Dan Fogelman ... executive producer
Selena Gomez ... executive producer
John Hoffman ... executive producer
Steve Martin ... executive producer
Jess Rosenthal ... executive producer
Martin Short ... executive producer
Music by
Siddhartha Khosla ... (music by)
Consulting Producers
Benj Pasek and Justin Paul
#selenagomez #stevemartin #martinshort #murdermystery #paulrudd #merylstreep #hulu #disneyplus #starplus - Zábava
WHAT QUESTIONS ARE LEFT AFTER EPISODE 9? What clues tell us who pushed Ben down the elevator shaft???
Does the clothing give a clue?
I still thought rat poison was added in fog machine and yes no proof Donna put poison in the cookie. And the final kill was the elevator not poison
Why do we still not know who called dickie/ben before elevator fall? Why do we not looking for who saw Ben, and esp for last after he left party?
Donna waited at the end of the hall when Tobert showed up on opening night. She overheard Toberts and Ben's argument where Tobert got fired. Donna is a woman of money, possibly ill and dying, and possibly made a deal with Tobert at the end of the hall to fund whatever project Tobert takes on next (maybe even a production for her son?) We didn't see the finishing scene of when Tobert walks away toward Donna... Who poisoned Ben, Donna. Who pushed Ben, someone working close to Donna. Tobert. Her son, Cliff, seems too naive to be the pusher, and his mother would certainly not put him in that situation.
As far as I see, Dickie was a horrible brother and manager. He has no problem to badmouth Ben every chance he gets. Ben had so much burden on him and his happy place was to go sewing and he couldnt even tell his brother about it. Dickie has no problem to say he was going to a brothel. As soon as he was told Loretta wasnt murderer he seeks for an attorney. He was gonna leave Ben and Ben was hurt saying he is a "nobro" and Dickie is like oh well he's gonna come around. I was feeling so bad for Ben especially when he wrote Fing Pig on his mirror. I rewatched epi 1. Even though Ben was hurt he told everyone he will change. He even forgave Charles who is the reason he became a jackass. Even so he called Loretta a snake for trying to steal Dickie and Dickie is so clueless. If Dickire didnt push Ben, Dickie broke Ben's heart and Ben died as he was betrayed.
Man, Paul Rudd's performance in the dressing room was sad, funny, dark, uneasy to watch and overall a Emmy winning performance in my opinion
Honestly, I thought it was the weak link in the show. It was okay, but you could tell he was acting. There have been a lot of strong performances this season, and I really felt that he was competent in the scene, but his acting seemed stagey and not entirely convincing. Comparing him to Streep and to the actress playing the detective, not to mention Short, Rudd was just okay.
@@stationarywanderer7910 I hear you I guess for me I e never seen him act that way. Streep, Short and Martin are a given it's what 'they do' I saw something different from Rudd the reason who I say his performance is Emmy worthy at least a nomination for best male supporting guest start
I was so sad for him😿
I think we all have affection for Rudd, so it worked on that level, but the performance itself wasn't at the level of the other performances we've seen on the show. You could definitely see him acting.@@KeilaniFilms
I felt so bad for him. He did a magnificent job.
I've seen an interesting theory: there's no second murderer, not in the proper sense of it. The idea is that Tobert confronted Ben after he came back from the dead, the elevator door opened and it was empty. Ben lost it's balance and, just like that baby elephant all those years before, Tobert just watched as he fell.
I like it.
That's a fun solution!!!
I definitely think the elephant story is relevant to the case and Tolbert character. I hadn’t thought about it this way but maybe.
I like that but the thing is..the show is call Only MURDERS in the Building. would seem like a bit of a cop out maybe?
@@zainan94 I agree with you, but would be an interesting plot twist that was well established early in the season
Yeah I too feel like it might be the Arconia is the murderer and maybe the Lighthouse did it in play OR the rattle caused mom in play to die and the hankie caused Ben to slip like his footing and it fell wafting down the shaft because he has no hankie in his hand in the shaft falling scene...and Tobert saw it or Cliff was there and his mom saved him from falling too like elephant and they swore to keep quiet but Tobert saw and could've helped and didn't.
All those ways would be poetic and fit the crazy day Ben was having and still be satisfying that no one murdered him really and that is good for me this season. I also wonder still about fogger and if the cookie was poisoned was it something supposed to make him just feel bad so understudy would go on and not mean to kill him and did his mix of meds from Doc C make him die or help him revive at hospital?
I loved this episode. It's coming back to the trio as we know and love. The "Father of the Bride" joke was a top moment for me. I'm curious was the "triplet theory" a red herring and was meant to point out the trio the whole time?
If Donna did, in fact, poison Ben, I don't think she pushed him. There's definitely a 2nd killer. Many questions were answered, but I still have a few questions:
1. Was it the sewing circle on the phone when Ben left the party?
2. Where was Tobert's whereabouts when Ben was pushed?
It would be BRILLIANT if it was the sewing circle calling Ben! Hadn't thought of that!
I have a feeling Tobert is the one who pushed him but they haven't shown any "motive" yet aside from Ben being a jerk to everybody
Upon rewatch, Dickie tells Ben he's got to take the call so that infers that Dickie knows who's calling but there's no name on the phone just a number. I doubt that it would be the seeing circle in that context.
My main suspect is still Tobert
Clues:
1. He had been fired from production.
2. My theory is that the play mimics the real life events in the show. In the Pickwick triplets song, Steve Martin sings a line "maybe none of the triplets did it, should I look outside the nursery?" I think this is a clue to look outside the theater group suspects. This episode also lent credibility to this theory when Charles stated “this dialogue is in the nose”
3. Mabel mentioned to Loretta "killers insert themselves into the investigation." Which is exactly what Tobert did. He pulled all the strings to get the podcast going again.
4. He had a key to Ben's apartment even though he was supposedly only the camera guy and he had gotten fired
5. He was the only guy not present at the party when Ben showed back up after his poisoning.
Might be some more I can't think of right now
Motive:
He's desperate for his big break. He figured that a documentary about the final days of a well-known celebrity would make a lot of money. So he killed Ben and planted clues to make everyone, except him, look suspicious. So now he's trying to film Mabel solve the case so that he can have footage of that for his documentary as well
Other suspects, for other reasons, include Dickie, Donna, and Cliff
oooo - what if those were Ben's keys to the penthouse??? That could convict him!
I suspected Tobert as soon as he said we will never hear his voice again in epi 1
Too predictable. I think it'll be shocking like the previous two seasons.
I feel like if it were Tobert he might’ve been in the last few episodes more. He’s been missing so much-I feel like if his motive was to make a film, then he’d actually be making it and we’d know about it as an audience. Who knows what he’s doing…or did they mention where he was when he let them borrow the go Pro?
@@maham33yes he lent Mabel his go pro and does have another gig already so those are for it not being him but he might've seen something or caught it on tape and wants to see if Mabel can figure it out on her own? They have left it a possible solution just not the best one...
Also oddly enough Howard weirdly inspires me to be a better cat dad- to my cat :)
If he inspires you to join a yodeling group, that's when it's time to stop watching :)
The name Cliff means Cliffside and DeMeo means Descend or Downfall!!!!! So he literally is named after the same thing that happened to Mother in the play! She was pushed down the Lighthouse that is standing on a Cliff, and he was the one that pushed Ben down the Elevator (Cliff-side) sending him to his Downfall
Great notes! His middle name is 'Guily' :)
It's a bit too much 'on the nose' though. It seems so obvious. But maybe?
My favorite seasons are as follows: Season 1; Season 3; and Season 2. This season is sooooo much fun! AND "Look for the Light" and "Pickwick Triplets" better get nominated for Emmys!!!
They should perform them at the Emmys!
@@DoublePMedia Imagine?!?!
Charles literally used the words "red herring" after they talked about the shredded paper. I don't think Donna did it
Poor Donna!
Thanks for clarifying btw, I watch in another language and this clue literally got lost in translation. But I specifically watched in my mother tongue to not miss anything due to language barriers 🥲
Whoever was the commenter who said Loretta’s motive was Gosford Park, you’re the wisest person I’ve ever known! I saw Gosford Park (great movie, recommend) and loved it and *STILL* didn’t figure that out!
OMG!!!! I just literally said "oh my god" out loud here on my couch. Just watched that movie for the first time the other day. Whoever wrote that comment is brilliant. Thanks for bringing attention to it. Mind blown.
This show is SO good! The writing is spot on I'm so sad it wont be a long running show 😭😭
I think you make the best reviews for OMitB
Thank you! I know you leave the best comments :)
I definitely feel like the police are an afterthought this season. They have been useless. All the interviews were about leading up to the play, but not "Where were you when he fell down the elevator shaft?" It gets frustrating that they don't cover all the suspects or angles. I still love Detective Williams, though, her personality is a great complimentary contrast for the trio.
Whomever gets arrested for this crime... their attorney will say "The police arrest Gregg for the crime. Then released him and arrested Loretta for the crime. Now my client. This investigation is in shambles. Release my innocent client!"
Question: Wouldn’t Joy fixing the red mark on Ben’s face be part of the 30 minute timeline?
Exactly! Hard to believe the show would "cheap out" on adding another ca$t member. Maybe the actress Andrea Martin wasn't available?
It was mentioned in passing, but they didn't show it because Andrea Martin wasn't in the episode.
SPOILERS AHEAD:
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Current theory: the call that Ben got at the party was from the hospital, letting him know he'd been poisoned. He knew the only thing he ate was the cookie, and he thought that Cliff poisoned it (in the flashback scene, Cliff has the cookies in the hallway, but Donna had planted the one in Ben's dressing room, so Ben would have thought the cookie was put there by Cliff). Ben confronted Cliff and Cliff ended up accidentally pushing Ben down the elevator shaft. Donna found out and attended Loretta's trial to make sure that she was convicted so Cliff would be safe from accusations. Second theory: I still like Dickie as the murderer, because he's just so tired of Ben or maybe embezzling from him and Ben found out. Loretta clearly made a false confession, but Dickie still isn't ruled out (his face wasn't clear in the security cam footage and he was in a costume that really anyone could have put on - especially if Dickie gave it to someone to pretend to have an alibi). Loretta would be heartbroken that Charles, Mabel, and Oliver would find the evidence that sends Dickie to jail and she's heartbroken, leaving NYC and the stage (and Oliver) forever. (That way, they don't have to pay Meryl Streep for another season - there are practical considerations too you know!)
I think also that Donna just meant to make Ben sick so he couldn't be in the show - not necessarily to kill him... But that doesn't really matter one way or another... Unless she convinced Cliff that the play would be better off without Ben, which led him to push Ben down the elevator shaft when it was convenient to do so. She may truly be covering everything up for Cliff.
both theories work for me!
Would Donna be accused on attempted murder? Or is their a poisoning charge?
I like Theory #1. I could see Ben blaming Cliff over the cookie and confronting him and Cliff accidentally pushing Ben down the elevator shaft. I still want to blame Tobert because I just don't trust him
@@LisaSansombut how would making him sick help if the review of Maxine is the motive of Donna?
Ben gets sick, Jonathan does the opening show, and for the next show, Ben would be fine again. That wouldn't stop the play at all?
Okay, I think I'm convinced it was suicide. Sooo...Ben poisoned the cookie. At first, to keep himself from eating it. But then he thought, "what the hell, nobody cares anyway", so he ate it. Then, at the elevator...he calls Tobert, story of the decade...Tobert shows up filming...Ben talks about how he has no reason to go on anyway. Tobert could have saved him, stopped him, but filmed the suicide instead.
I completely agree
Here’s a thought. Donna poisoned the cookie in an attempted murder. BUT, being in a mental health downward spiral, not knowing who he can trust and having survived a murder attempt, Ben took his own life, throwing himself down the elevator. And Tobert witnessed ALL of it, both the poisoning and the suicide - throw back to the baby elephant story - it would make the end of the season incredibly dark and sad though.
That would work --- I'd need him to have filmed it. We need proof Tobert! Use the damn camera!!! :)
I know what you mean-it’s starting to feel there’s no way for the ending not to be kinda dark. Unless it really is someone random like KT
The problem is that we see a hand pushing him into the elevator shaft.
@@DoublePMedia that’s the thing that always gets me with Tolbert, other than when he’s introduced when have we ever seen him film anything? Is that a clue or just something they didn’t have time to include.
@@stationarywanderer7910 we didn’t see the actual event of him being pushed down, only Charles and Mabel’s possible explanations of it.
I'm loving season three because I love Meryl Streep and I love Broadway so yes this is a little different from the previous seasons And people I know are not feeling this season but it's is a treat for me
This season was so well done, it could have been a feature film 💯
@@TanyardTerrace exactly! I want more lol. I want to actually see the whole musical
Agree. imo Meryl Streep blends perfectly into the show. Rating by Whodunnit Clues: 3, 1, 2. Rating by comedy: 1, 2, 3. Rating by overall enjoyment: 1, 3, 2.
@@KeilaniFilms I agree the music is amazing this would be a great musical on stage even with dancing crabs! 😂. Maybe each night could be random choice, like clue with a different ending of maybe five or six theories here! Who or what poisoned Ben and who made him fall could change and people would go to watch it many times and get a different endings because there are really a few great possibilities still as to how Ben died. Everyone's suggestions and comments that seem plausible.coukd be the endings ...now THAT would be AMAZING!!!🎉 and also matches what Donna says about needing it to be so catchy and good it makes people fly in just to see it and how Loretta feels when she was a kid and fell in love with theatre so it's an homage to theatre, a mystery, incentive because of different options for ending based on same first two acts AND if they could get some of these actors to guest star in roles, especially The main 3, and Streep, Rudd, Broderick, Ashley Park, Tina Fey, maybe even bring back Nathan Lane, and the rest of the cast are so talented and many good on stage already! It would be FABULOUS! Death Rattle Dazzle would sweep the Tony awards!
I’m feeling this season. It’s the best. ❤️👍🏼🥰it’s season 2 I didn’t like much 😒
If Donna was the killer it would also explain why both her and her son jumped back on board with the musical idea so quickly. Donna also realized that a musical was what the critics were looking for
#smart
I feel like Dickie was practically about to admit to killing Ben to Loretta in the previous episode (down in the lobby of the theatre I think?), how he felt so trapped after Ben came back to life. My money is on Donna did the poisoning and Dickie did the pushing, but that it might not have been premeditated or even on purpose.. It could have been an aggressive argument between the two of them near the elevator over Dickie leaving and it was either an accident or Dickie shoved him impulsively. He is being eaten up by the guilt of it. Also Paul Rudd is my fav, his dark scene in the dressing room was so great and sad.
I hope you are correct.
Season three has been okay for me. It definitely picked up in Episode eight personally. Donna definitely poisoned Ben. She's wearing Cruella Devil's signature look. But episode 9 brought up triplets again so I'm thinking there are two more people involved.
Triplets would be nice
Man, I think season 3 has been mostly filler and the story is a mess, it is all over the place. If they focused the story (like they have done in episodes 8 and 9) it would have been much better.
Donna's outfits have been giving me Cruella vibes this season too.
I still have to go with my gut feeling... It was surprising that Dickie doesn't know that Loretta was his mother, but I still think he is the one that actually killed Ben. I think it is possible that the blood on the hankie is Dickie's blood, not Ben's, and that's why he had to get that hankie. You made an interesting observation that it could possibly be Dickie's hankie, not Ben's. Still pointing to Dickie. The motive? I think he resented his brother, Ben for many reasons. I think that call that Ben took by himself, is important. Dickie's personality changed after his brother's death. He became assertive, and appeared to be confident. Maybe he always was, but his demeanor seemed to improve, except when alone...It makes me wonder if it was an accident or on impulse, like temporarily insane when he killed Ben. An interesting thought was brought up that maybe the person was trying to save Ben, not push him down the elevator. Tobert is guilty of something, but I think it has to do with Cinda, he has been sneaking around for Cinda. My question is... K.T. where are you? We haven't seen much of you lately. Were you the one in your own locked office shredding paper, that Harold heard on opening night? We saw you at another time surprised and startled while shredding a highlighted script. Why were you shredding it? There is definitely more to K.T. than meets the eye. Could K.T. be the killer? Time will tell... I am glad that Mabel and Theo are hitting it off. :) Way to go Steve Martin, and own the patter song, and make it your own. Awesome!!!
I think they correctly solved the wrong "murder" (Donna poisoning Ben) - hence the red herring reference in the episode.
Cliff gave Ben the cookie. So Ben might have confronted Cliff about the poisoned cookie, as you said. And in his angry stress dance Cliff accidentally pushed Ben down the Elevator shaft.
Cliff's stress dancing in front of Ben is the oddest version of Dancing With The Stars :)
NAILED IT
I loved the sewing club!
One time, my friend Laura dragged me to a shop with knitting tools. Had NO idea it was that complex
Season 3 is my favorite, but all the seasons have been amazing! How can you not love OMITB?!? My family is obsessed!🥰
I agree, but I want the show to run in the Fall - Sept-November, that's family time. Later summer aint the right mystery weather :)
Am I the only one that thinks there are 3 murderers ? For some reason they put so much emphasis on the triplets song this season and after listening to the lyrics it sounds like Donna, Cliff, and someone else, Tobert or Dickie. "Penelope" is definitely Donna, and then the line about "Patrick" biting the hand that feeds him could be referencing Cliff. There's another line about "Patrick" that goes "Could that rotten tot be behind this evil plot?". I can see him as the mastermind behind the murder if anything. I really don't know who "Pako" could be, but something Mabel said in the last episode stood out to me, about how the killer likes to be involved with the investigation. Jan definitely did that in season 1, and Becky kind of did that through Cinda's podcast. Her detective boyfriend was also involved by taunting the trio and stressing them out. If I remember correctly, Donna and Cliff were not heavily involved in the investigation like Tobert was, even going so far as to helping Mabel with the podcast
If there are 3 murderers, the Charles better sing "What if all of the Pickwick Triplets did it?!?" :)
The statement you said at 7:09 about the trio not facing much danger isn't completely true. Don't forget that Oliver has now had two heart attacks!
True. Heart Troubles: the silent killer
Also Charles and Mabel were locked up & almost tortured by Gregg.
@@jt279 Yes! That too. I forgot about that one.
I have big suspicion on the reviewer herself. She appeared in the 1st episode for a very short amount of time and always seems to be in the background of shots. I also know the writers of the show like to add clues to the murderers in very quick, you might not catch it moments. If you watch as Charles sings the Pitwick song in the theatre, at the end of the song when he said 'I pick you!' He points directly at her and it cuts to her for less than a second...
Putting all my original ideas aside, going for someone completely different just got fun…Tobert!
Tobert, stood by and let an baby elephant almost die, maybe he poisoned the cookie, maybe his documentary had no real substance so he poisoned Ben as a way to bring life…ironically…to his documentary, he did insert himself into the case…killers do that…maybe he went back to speak to Ben after he survived to get the documentary to start up again, but when Ben said no, he pushed him.
I've got Tobert at maybe 30% - have another character higher in my suspect list
I've had Tobert pegged since like five minutes after the character was introduced. The guy has a frigging camera. That's huge murderer vibes. Seriously, he has hours of footage of Ben and the other people in the play, and we have seen basically none of it. The thing with the elephant just made him more suspicious, as did him temporarily joining the investigation. Oh yeah, and the thing where all three main characters are hanging out on a date, and Tobert's the only member of the trio who is never suspected by the person they're on a date with. I thought he might have been sufficiently obvious to be a red herring, suspected and then discarded in episode eight or something, but the fact that no one has even put him on the cork board as a potential murderer makes him seem like a really strong choice.
Tobert always lies, and then his lies are skimmed over. He said Dickie fired him. But Ben fired him. When I heard, "I'm not another animal in your zoo". I got chills. I think he deserves those devil horns.
If you look very closely at the scene where Ben glenroy is pushed down the lift, the sleeve is brown and the only person wearing a brown coat or jacket is tobert. The poisoning is a ruse. Ben knew someone was after him. And he faked his death. After he left the theatre, he went to his dressing room near the elevator which was broken and he was pushed to his death
Love your podcast! And love this season, even though I can't unsee the triplet scene!
I am so relieved Mabel didn't get married in order to "do something"with her life! Whew!
I don't trust Tobert. He lies, condescends, and even before you pointed out the Devil horns, gaslit Mabel. When Mabel said, "The killer often inserts themselves into the investigation." I think it was more a nod to Tobert than Loretta.
I could see it going down with Donna poisoning, or even just knocking him out with a cookie after fasting. Cliff doing "stress Dancing" that causes Ben lose his balance. And Tobert seeing Ben go down and maybe even orchestrating it to boost his documentary.
As for questions... Who the heck called Ben at the party? His tone totally changed.
And where was Tobert when he really should have been filming Ben's opening night?
I love this season! My favorite would be season 1, then 3, followed by 2. I do agree that some action scenes would have been great in the middle episodes. We never felt that our 3 friends were in danger (maybe just a Oliver with his heart). I also missed the trio working together - when they didn’t, the episodes felt incomplete. But overall good and this last episode was so great! 😊
It was Tobert. I called it episode 3. There’s more to be revealed about his character and relationship with Ben and Dickie and potentially Loretta. He’s the character Dwight Schrute would say “you most medium suspect”.
Two things I'm still trying to figure out:
HOW DID POPPY GET BUNNY TO MABEL'S APARTMENT??
AND
WHO POISONED OLIVER'S DOG???
OMG - get me Oliver's heart medication :)
I literally have the same questions!!!
From Co-creator John Hoffman: In Season 1, Episode 3, Oliver returned to his apartment to find that his beloved bulldog had ingested a toxic substance. Winnie survived, but the attempted dog murderer was never exposed. According to Hoffman, that was by design:
“We like our loose ends,” the EP says with a wink. “I don’t mind carrying loose ends from Season 1 to Season 2, from Season 2 to Season 3.” But rest assured, “there is a long game plan involving some of these clues.”
@@cyndeewenzel6439 thanks for the answer! Thats sounds undoubtedly interesting!
I love season 3. It feels like a fun game of Clue. I would rank the seasons 1, 3, 2 also. Also Paul Rudd acting is outstanding. Great season.
100%
Ok im kinda late to this but I have to point something out :
I listen to the soundtracks of the show quite frequently.
Almost at the end of the album for this season of the show, there is a soundtrack called "It Was An Accident Mom".
The only mother and son dynamic we got on this season was Dona with Cliff and Dickie with Loretta.
Cliff and Dickie are not on the top of my list but i think we should have this at the back of our mind.
(Sorry for my possible grammatical mistakes. English is not my first language)
Final theories - apologies for the long post
There’s a fairly high chance all of this is BS, but that’s why they’re theories! 🙃
Murder at elevator, possible theories:
1. Tobert & Dickie:
a. At some point after Ben’s poisoning, Tobert contacts Dickie asking about his camera. Dickie reveals that he felt relief when it seemed that Ben died, but that didn’t last when Ben was revived. Tobert then said that if Ben had remained dead, he could have made a lot of money from the documentary. This was when they started to formulate a plan to kill him a second time. Dickie would arrange for Tobert to meet Ben outside the elevator while Dickie would leave the Arconia & made sure he had camera footage of himself at “Snitches Get Stitches” during that time as alibi for his whereabouts.
b. This theory would only work if Tobert was working with Dickie, as Dickie likely owns the rights to the documentary footage, and Tobert won’t be able to use it unless Dickie authorized it.
c. It also may not work if Ben has a twin, because then Dickie would have to kill both twins, and have a second body to dispose of.
d. There holes with this theory, as Ben may decide not to listen to Dickie, and not meet Tobert at the elevator.
2. Cliff & Donna:
a. When Ben returns to the party, Donna becomes concerned as this would mean the play would resume its run, and that nothing has changed. She had to come up with another way to stop the play. However, the reason Ben returned was because he wanted to find out who tried to kill him, which explains why he went to each individual cast & crew to determine which of them did it. Then he received a call from the doctors with the toxicology report confirming it was rat poison from the cookie. He waits outside Oliver’s apartment by the elevator to confront Cliff & Donna thinking it was either one or both of them behind the poisoning. Donna seizes this opportunity to try to push Ben into the shaft, and a struggle ensues. Cliff, trying to protect his mom tries to separate the two by pushing Ben aside. Ben trips/slips on a death rattle hankie and falls into the elevator shaft. Flailing & falling Ben grabs the hankie before hitting the elevator cab.
Twin Glenroy parents theory:
1. Based on Loretta’s bus ticket from the end credits clue of ep 8, it suggests that Loretta gave her child up in 1976. This is further supported by a letter from her child’s adopted parents, Michael & Eloise Glenroy, which appears to be post-marked 1979, but the print was very small & blurry. This means that neither Ben, who was born in 1973, nor Dickie, who was born a few years earlier, could be Loretta’s child.
2. Based on “The Comedy of Errors” poster clue hanging in Oliver’s apartment involving 2 sets of twins and mistaken identities, I theorize that Michael and Eloise Glenroy could be one half of twin brothers marrying twin sisters, and that the other set of Glenroy’s are in fact Ben’s & Dickie’s parents (let’s call them M1 & E1) . Because M1 & E1 were able to miraculously conceive Ben after adopting Dickie, Michael & Eloise does the same, naming Loretta’s child Richard, after Dickie. When their own child was born in 1979, they also name him Ben.
3. Because Dickie’s & Ben’s cousins were named after them, I can see why Loretta would mistake Dickie as her son.
Twin theory again:
1. By now I’m sure most people are familiar with the finger tattoos that suggest twins, but I’m inclined to think the twin theory is back in play because Dickie is likely not Loretta’s child, if the twin Glenroy parents theory is correct.
2. If Ben#1 was indeed poisoned by rat poison and vomiting blood (it is one of the symptoms), he would be very ill and not likely able to attend Oliver’s party. Dickie was probably not lying when he said “they pronounced him!” to Ben#2 on the phone.
3. Ben#2 shows up at the party instead, intent on finding out who tried to kill his twin.
4. The call Ben#2 receives is an update on Ben#1 from Dr C, who was able to revive Ben#1 but was still in critical condition.
5. With Ben#1 still requiring substantial medical care, Dickie has to liquidate many of Ben’s memorabilia to pay for the medical bills.
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I think they said Ben had bit his tongue when he fell (which could mean it had swollen from an allergic reaction)
@@cyndeewenzel6439 Ben said that himself when he returned to the party. He bit it when he fell.
Fantastic post!
1. I love this idea of Tobert and Dickie. In that scenario, I could see the trio telling Detective Williams about Dickie's alibi photo but she'll say that wasn't a thing, meaning it was Tobert who took it?
2. I agree the mysterious phone call during the party was the Dr. from the hospital with the toxicology report, which is why it was a NY number and not a named contact. The hankie slip would be the cherry on top. Done in by his own handy work.
3. The twin parents thing made my head hurt.
4. Interesting. I'm still not sold on the twins, I keep thinking Ben's bipolar, perhaps undiagnosed and the Dr. C. cocktail doesn't help. He showed up in a super great mood to the Theatre then got super depressed and negative. The blood around the mouth was said by Ben to be him biting his tongue when he passed out. So if it was due to vomiting blood from poison, either he had no recollection and just thought he bit it or he was being coy to not let on to anyone that he'd been poisoned, but then if the call he received during the party was the Dr. from the hospital with the toxicology report, he wouldn't have known about being poisoned until he stepped out of the party. So I'm confused.
@@matth.7388 In Season 2 episode 10, Ben actually sinks to his knees first, then as he got back up you could already see some blood at the side of his mouth. When he fell and flipped over onto his back, that's when you see a lot of blood streaming down his cheek. Somehow, I never truly believed his explanation to Charles regarding the blood, as he didn't exhibit any problems speaking or pronouncing his words at the party.
I still think it's Dickie even more so after this episode. He's got an accomplice who wore the CoBro suit but I can't decide who it could be. Tobert? Theo? Cliff? A younger brother not yet seen or has been in crowd pics? Dickie knew Loretta thought he was her son, he manipulated her to confess to killing Ben, Ben is really her son. Loretta will be devastated when she finds out the truth and leave NYC and Oliver! I don't care to be right but will be annoyed if it ends up being Bobo or Ty or the director man in the attic! 🤣
Great video. Thanks for sharing. Season 1 is my favorite. I enjoyed Season 2 as well but have a hard time with "14 Sandwich" being the last words of the woman violently murdered for a not-guaranteed promotion. Paul Rudd and Meryl Streep are beyond amazing but the main three characters have been individually unhappy and collectively unhappy for most of this season so that's a downer. And then there's an excessive amount of incest jokes and references which I personally have a big problem with.
That said, I love the show and will never stop watching. The most interesting theory that I have seen is regarding Ben being the oldest child and Dickie being the youngest. Dickie says to Ben "I've taken care of you my whole life". There are a lot of references to ages (8 when he was fired, 31 in Girl Cop, born in 1973 shown at the funeral). Then there's the date on the bus ticket and on the letter from the Glenroy's. That would be a good twist but also very sad for Loretta. I'm not sure they'll go there. I guess Tobert could have done it or watched it and not said anything. I would be disappointed if it was another person linked romantically to the trio. I do think we'll see Cinda again.
Having post-traumatic stress over the '14 Sandwich' "clue" ??? :)
You're right, but it may be a mistake on the part of the writers. There have been a few sloppy mistakes in the writing this season. Loretta said that they adopted her baby because they thought they couldn't get pregnant. But who knows. It would be a bizarre twist if Ben was actually Loretta's son, especially for her!
Thanks for doing these videos. Insightful and funny. Thanks again !!
Glad you enjoyed it! Once the season is over, I'll get to collapse :)
The image of Selena Gomez holding babies with the heads of Steve Martin and Martin Short superimposed is the stuff of nightmares...
Selena Gomez being 30-years-old is a nightmare for how old I must be!
It was off putting and weird looking
OMG We went from 20 to 100MPH in 1 episode!
I'm sad Mabel isn't getting married, but amazing to see the trio in action!
I'd find it hard to believe Donna isn't the culprit at this point
We sure did! After seeing her in that wedding dress, I'm glad she's single :) Hello Mabel!
Final guess before the finale airs tonight and we all see how close or far off we are:
Who: Tobert
Why/ why now: because Ben fired him and took the camera, right before he collapses on stage (and comes back to life), which would have been huge to have exclusive footage to sell and helped him make it big in his career
How: Tobert and Ben meet up but argue about all this, maybe Ben refuses to give him the camera or tells him he's still fired, so Tobert punched him and he fell down the elevator shaft.
How they'll figure it out: the trio will figure out the camera should have been in the dressing room, not Ben's penthouse and/or he'll say something only the murderer would know (possibly about him falling from the 10th floor-as seen in the flashes of him falling-, when everyone assumes he falls from the penthouse)
I've been listening to the voice overs of this season and I think it could all relate to Tobert: wanting his chance for the spotlight but not getting it and doing anything to be there, not knowing who you're sleeping with (Mabel)... plus, I think he said to Mabel with the elephant story that this time he wanted to take action.
I thought the drugs might be placebos.
Unrelated to the murder I think Dickie will ask Loretta "where have you been?" But I'm not sure if it'll be in a good way or not. Since it's a comedy, I'm guessing it'll be a happy reunion 🫂
Things that don’t add up: 1. How did Dickie get Ben’s phone which he left in his dressing room as Dickie wouldn’t have had time to go backstage since Ben collapsed on stage and went straight to hospital with him? 2. How did Maxine’s printed review end up backstage and who would have had access to it? 3. Why was Maxine on list for main church floor for Ben’s funeral since she was neither friend or family?
I enjoy season 3 a lot! Episode 9 was fantastic and was so nice to have the trio investigating and moving things along. Thats my one complaint this season. It didn’t have the rush or investigation as much as s1 or 2. I’d have to rank them 1,2,3. But I’ve had more time to rewatch s1 and 2 so let’s see how the s3 finale goes!
I loved the killer/ mystery of season 2 a lot because they were toying with the trio by planting evidence and engaging with them in ways.
Excited to see how all this ends!
The fan's theories were so much extensive and better than how epi 10 ended!
First time reviewer but love the channel! I’ve always thought the poisoner and the elevator killer were different people; the elevator was definitely based on convenience while the poisoning was premeditated. What keeps driving me crazy is, why is no one just checking the phone records to see who called Ben at the party? Seems like police procedure 101; but then again, I thought the same thing as to why no one bothered to check Bunny’s phone records to see what number kept calling her about the painting, as that would have easily revealed the killer in S2. In the case of Ben, I’m thinking the killer will be Tobert, because nothing about his story is actually based on fact, it’s all based on his word and everyone assuming he’s telling the truth. Why would Dickie terminate him when Dickie wasn’t even working for Ben anymore? And why did he have a key to Ben’s place anyway? Was that Ben’s key? Do we even know if he was even in Botswana ever? Seems odd that you’d go from Nat Geo documentaries to randomly following Ben; who hired him anyway? I just think Tobert hasn’t been investigated enough to know if anything he’s ever said is truthful. He’s been suspicious from the armoire interaction; my money is on him.
Poor Det. Williams wants to be back working the park and not on homicide :)
Thank You! Yes, do we even know if his name is Tobert? He could have changed it to hid a previous record.
I would love to see the "triplets" theory turn out to be true... 3 different "murderers" and 3 "mother-son" bonds ( loretta + dickie, donna + cliff, "the critique" which I forgot her name + tobert) so I think Donna tries to poison Ben without actually wanting to kill him then Dickie is the one that actually pushes him which is going to break Lorettas heart and Tobert witnessed everything but said nothing -maybe as I have read already- because he wanted to use everything in his documentary
Enjoy watching your videos, they are funny & informative! I was hitting the like button when I saw your "My Cousin Vinny" segment!
Questions:
- What happened to Tobert's camera, the one that Ben took? It wasn't there when Charles & Oliver broke into Ben's dressing room.
- When did Dickie end Tobert's contract, was it before or after Ben died? My impression (after ep3) was that his contract was terminated because Ben died.
- If Ben hired Tobert, doesn't that mean that Ben's/Dickie's production company owns the rights to Tobert's documentary footage? That is, Tobert can't use it without Dickie's permission. But if Dickie & Tobert had teamed up, then the million dollar documentary theory could be motive ... hmmm ...
- The fact that Tobert has the keys to Ben's apartment, does that mean he and Dickie are working together???
Up until this point, I have been reluctant to suspect Tobert because there hasn't been any real clues tying him to Ben's death. Yes, he seems suspicious & there have been hints tying him to Cinda, but he hasn't been in many episodes this season. Also his motive of advancing his career & financial gain is similar to that of Poppy's, plus inserting oneself in the investigation is Jan's MO. For Tobert to be revealed as the killer in the final episode, I would be a bit disappointed, but not entirely surprised.
Like you, I've been reluctant to suspect Tobert. Yet at this point, I have to consider him.
My co-worker raised an interesting theory: Ben's death was an accident! If that's true, then the killer is...THE ARCONIA!!! What if Ben was arguing - or just talking - with someone, they moved to the elevator, he presses the button and the elevator door opens but all that''s there is an open elevator shaft. Ben turns to grab onto something/someone, but still falls down the elevator shaft. (In the process, Ben grabs the handkerchief.) The person who witnessed this - still not sure who it is - was too freaked out to say anything. Look at the clues: The residents of the Arconia are frustrated and keep talking about how some of the elevators are always on the blink. Also, Ben may not have known about this because he just moved into the building into Amy Schumer's old apartment. He wasn't as aware of the clunkiness of the elevators. I think the killer is the Arconia in that the building is responsible because the elevators are a hazard.
Let's assume the show was being forthright with Donna and poison. She's guilty of attempted murder or manslaughter. She's now in the courtroom to either make sure Loretta takes the fall or to somehow help get her off to work the show. That whole thing will be one half of the final episode. But then something will reveal itself to show either Loretta or Tobert really shoved Ben down the elevator shaft. I don't think Tobert was at the wrap party, so he's not accounted for and when Ben shows back up, Loretta makes a hasty exit. I think I'm kind of on the star killer theory where if you don't make Meryl Streep your killer, then what are you doing. So she ends up getting yo-yoed throughout the episode from accused killer to getting off the hook, to being back on the hook giving the audience whiplash in the process.
Both of those are good options
I just hope it's not another woman killer this time. Didn't Charles make a reference to that assumption and wasn't the dip that oliver was eating a Swedish red herring dip???. I say the doorman did it lol😂 we will soon find out who done it. 🎉❤
@@lindarock3946I wasn't sure if that red herring reference was to the birthday cake for Mabel or something else.
Your re-caps are my favorite. Without checking, I thought that Tobert wasn't there at the party when Ben was killed, so he's my choice as killer.
Thanks! There's more to Tobert - I wondering if he stole the keys to the penthouse after he killed Ben? Hmmmmmm
@@DoublePMediayou mean after Mabel took photos and after Uma stole the hankie BUT before the cops secured the area? Possibly...
Ben wasn't at the party either when he was killed, so everyone could have been gone.
I’ve been wondering about Jerry. When Loretta is reading an article in a flashback, it says that the director was Jerry still when Ben was casted. Could Ben have made Donna ditch Jerry?
Great eyes to catch that Lauren!
I hope poor Ben-Bun didn’t commit south side.
Loretta was a gift wrapper. Ben had this strong urge to make hand-made gifts.
I am now convinced Ben is her child. Numbers were messed up many episodes ago. The birth date at the funeral is wrong.
Mabel was 7 when her dad died. That means she was 7 or 8 when she has been watching girl cop. Ben was 31 in girl cop. Mabel now is 30, right? That means Ben is 31 + 22/23 = 53/54 years old. Dickie is 50. Ben is older than Dickie.
Ben’s adopted parents had a notion Ben will be a huge star one day. They didn’t want Loretta to take the credit for his talent and try to reach him/take advantage of him.
Mabel is not the brightest one this season. She never asked Tobert why he was fired.
Trio didn’t ask Dickie/Det. Williams what kind of poison was found in Ben’s body. Why are they so sure it’s a rat poison?
What a WONDERFUL connection between Loretta and Ben.
I think there is no crime. The cookie Ben ate had something in it he was allergic to. The “blood” in his face and moth was actually red food dye from the cookie. He fell into the elevator shaft. However, Tobert did witness it; it’s on his go- pro. And Mable moves out of the building. The next season is in her new building.
I finally have a theory to share - and it ties all of our most obvious suspects together 😊: Donna poisoned Ben, Ben suspects and confronts Cliff (and/or Cliff and Donna together) since Cliff offered him the cookies, Cliff pushes Ben (either accidentally, in self-defense, or in defense of his mother - I particularly like that option since it would involve a mother protecting her son and then a son protecting his mother). Tobert was the person who called Ben, and Ben was perhaps waiting to meet up with him by the elevator (to discuss his hasty firing or possibly return his camera since Ben grabbed it and took it with him during said hasty firing). Tobert arrives for their meet-up in time to witness (or even film!) Ben being pushed, and Cliff and/or Donna pay him off not to go public - and then possibly also to steer the trio away from them. (If this is true, it explains all the references to threes and triplets - there are three people involved in the murder!)
Where was Dickie in all this? Between taking Tobert’s call and being pushed, either Ben tells Dickie off one final time or vice versa (either way, one brother says to the other “you’re still dead to me”), and Dickie leaves before all this goes down. That’s why he’s so guilt-ridden and sometimes acts weird. (He did say something in an earlier episode about taking his eye off the ball for one second.) But I think he’ll ultimately be innocent, so that he and Loretta can begin their relationship as mother and son without the sad complication of one of them being in jail. (And if Donna and Cliff are our culprits - either together or one poisoned and one pushed without the other’s knowledge - that makes a nice parallel: one innocent mother & son duo and one guilty one.)
As always, it’s been fun being part of the Clue Crew and sleuthing with you! 😊
I am wondering same scenario as it fits but will the writers choose it. It would effectively remove tobert from Mabel's life and between now and season 4 the musical can still go on with all of its actors I suppose. Mabel should move in with Charles now Joy is gone as she gets on her feet..
Always share Jillian! Brilliant!
Oh and what if Cliff almost fell too and Donna saved him and her hankie fell in shaft and Robert saw it same as elephant story? But I still think Cliff dancing or flipping would be included because they have shown it twice and need a final third time. Lol
@@DoublePMedia Thanks! 😊
@@amandachilds5290 YES, I love that! I was sort of thinking “baby elephant” parallel, too, but missing a good explanation for the hankie. Case closed! 😉
I can't help nerding out about this OmitB. There is a contract displayed at the Gooseberry museum in New York(I saw it on video). So there wasn't just a review, I thought it interesting that our view of the review was curled in so that we could not match it to the partial paper. That makes 2 very important papers in the shredder. Also Loretta said she put poison in Ben's protein drink, but Ben was fasting. My money is on Tobert having a "menacing motive and hid it."
Nice!
This season has been so good! definitely a favorite so far. I think Cliff killed Ben and Donna was at the court to see with her own eyes Loretta pleading guilty, to reassure herself that Cliff would be safe.
If so, I need a mother to support me as much as Donna... without the kisses :)
@@DoublePMedia 😂😂
I wish I found your page earlier. I have been holding on to this theory since Matthew Broderick guest starred and Mel Brooks had his cameo. My theory is this is a re-telling of the movie "the producers." The producers are trying to tank the show. They had too much money invested in the show for it to be a success. So killing the lead and re starting the show as a musical in only a few weeks is for sure to tank the show.
I THOUGHT THAT TOO! Nathan lane, Matthew Broderick, Mel Brooks are all in this season. I was just waiting for Uma Thurman to show up!
If that ends up being the case, I'll be disappointed, not very original at all.
They're going to make a killing on the flop of Death Rattle Dazzle!
Scream Queens taught me that rat poison only works because rats don't have a gag reflex, if you gave a human rat poison, they would immediately puke it all up, So not only would I have survived your attempt on my life. It would have also made me skinnier
Damnnit Ben, throw up the poison! But not on the people in the front row!
The scene of Loretta and Ben fighting outside the lighthouse is an indication of what happened. It will be the reverse scenario, but at the elevator. This time Loretta will be pushing Ben but instead of against a railing, down the elevator
Love this theory!
I’ve personally loved Season 3! It’s been a great mystery AND the artistic way in which the show has told this story has been phenomenal. I agree with needing slightly more danger because that’s what the show does, but doesn’t ruin the season for me. Season 3 is my favorite, but we’ll see if the finale lives up to it
I think the season finale is going to live up to it on Death Rattle Dazzle alone!
This is my favorite season but I love musicals and the songs are bangers. The mystery is stronger than season two I think but the suspense is not as tight as season one. I do miss Nathan Lane considering we had all the hat tips to The Producers. Very missed opportunity.
As someone who has sung the Pickwick Triplets song too much - I'm enjoying this season too!
I really hope Nathan Lane returns next season! I miss the hijinks between him and Oliver.
@@purplemist7 think about Teddy being behind it all... he has money and pull in the theater world. he is pulling Donna's strings he got her to fire Jerry hire Oliver just so he could ruin his play... get even , get revenge... he had Ben killed... maybe, but I think after great reviews the building will burn down and Oliver's hit will never be!
I think Donna did the poisoning in an attempt to sideline Ben, not necessarily trying to kill him, just to side line him. She was protecting her son who was producing his first play. However, Loretta thought it had been Dickie who had poisoned Ben, and in an attempt to remove suspicion from her son, she (Loretta) threw Ben down the elevator shaft.
This would be a good double twist since the trio showed up at the courtroom thinking she was innocent, but she isn't, jajajaj.
I originally thought Tobert was the killer, bu the has been absent way too much, it would feel like a bit of a let down if he ends up being the killer.
A funny revelation would be that Matthew Broderick pushed Ben down the elevator shaft, in hopes that he would get the call, jajajajajajaj. If that is the actual revelation that would be hiiiiisterical.
Ferris killed Ben because Ben stole the role of CoBro from him :)
Yes Ferris did it would be too funny but not likely
Yeah, I agree it wouldn't be likely, but it would make for a hiiiiilarious last-minute twist. And honestly, I don't think people would be disappointed or feel cheated, jajajajjaa.
@@jordibarguno no it would jump the shark too much and too soon imho
@@amandachilds5290 I agree it would be too out of left field.
The best was 2 for the best use of the Arconia having hidden passages, and of course "the dips" hahahaha
Heck yeah!
Your lawyering skills are spot on, we should start a practice together! 😂
I'm down. Currently asking for the original conviction of Jan to be tossed out! :)
@@DoublePMedia I'll file the paperwork right now!
The caller to Ben's phone in the party is key to solving the mystery. Dickie expresses to Ben that he needs to take the call, Ben scoffs but when seeing the caller ID changes his tone and agrees, excusing himself to go somewhere quieter. We get to see a glimpse of the phone at 31mins 32 seconds episode 1 but i can't freeze the frame to read it without it being blurred. Can anyone else get a clear view of the caller name?
Could it have been Cinda? Tobert could have already contacted Cinda, immediately after being fired to sell the juicy info he had on Ben from filming the past year. Perhaps Cinda and Tobert were blackmailing Ben?
The way Ben mocks his "own" name after Dickie calls for him in regard to the phone call then scoffs, further proves to me that having the name Ben isn't actually his own and that it was a persona he wanted to get rid of after "seeing the light".
Side note, just typing that, it's funny how Ben mentions seeing the light and Loretta has a song saying Look for the light.
Anywho, from what I can see of the call on his phone there are 3 units of characters. The middle unit is the shortest. The other two are roughly similar in length. At first I thought the first character was a plus sign, indicating the number wasn't saved into the phone (similar to how Mabel hadn't saved Cinda's number but knew who was calling)
But I tried going over it again and again to be certain. It's very blurred but there is some smaller character/icon at the start, then the next thing is either a 1 or T. I'm pretty sure it's 1 because I think I can see an open bracket after it. Apparently it's the country code for USA which works in favour of the initial character being a plus sign and that it's an unsaved number. Less so for the expressions on their faces having seen it.
Then obviously, underneath this white text, is a smaller set of text in grey, again, 3 units of characters but the final unit looks like it's just 2 characters.
Visually representing what I think I see in text is this :
+1 (XXXX XXX XXXX)
Xxxx Xxxxx XX
This vaguely follows the call screen we see from Mabel in the White Room episode. So it probably is Cinda but idk.
If it is, damn, why does she have so many haters who just don't save her number?
@@lk21010 Aw wow! Dickie and Ben must’ve recognised the number rather than a name. Well done on figuring it out 👏 we’ll just have to wait for next week
I think the twin thing is only that Ben is bi-polar. Notice the massive mood shift from picking up hankies to arriving at the Theatre. As for the phone, it's a number with no contact name set when I'd paused the video. The city just looks fuzzy like New York, NY. So if it was a familiar person why wouldn't he have that person as a contact by name? Was it a sewing sister apologizing for not making the performance? What if it's a doctor with blood test results? Or maybe Dr. C. which he wouldn't want to keep as a named contact seeing if it was "his stuff" that caused the issue? I need to go back and rewatch that episode.
They did bury Cinda pretty quickly never to revisit her again. It is ironic that Tobert encouraged Mabel to do her own podcast without the group as did Cinda. But would either have killed Ben just for clickbait? It also would be kind of odd having a very similar motive for Season 2 AND 3.
I keep coming back to who wasn't there at the after party. Loretta left early, when Ben showed up and Tobert wasn't there at all. I keep coming back to Loretta being the pusher, while Donna was the poisoner. I don't think Cliff has a mean bone in his body.
Where did Loretta supposedly grow up? The scenes of her taking ballet as a girl look like NY, not a small Midwest town. What happened to Bens dad? He said since age 8 he was working to support his mother and brother. Dickie looks at Loretta like he is in love with her. Is there another connection among these 3 that we don’t know.
Mabel recorded the after party on her phone. Who called Ben? Was it Tobert threatening to blackmail him based on something he recorded? We know Tobert willingly lets the camera roll regardless, based on his elephant story.
In court Loretta seems reluctant to deny her story of killing Ben even when she’s told he didn’t do it. I think Loretta has more of a backstory than we’ve been shown, maybe connecting her to Donna and Cliff.
That would work... but I'm worried they didn't set up enough clues for this to be the answer
This season has been hard for me to watch, the painful relationships just hit me harder about people I care about.
I understand - I imagine they'll all be single again for season 4
I have a theory that cliff did it.
Motive: Cliff saw the review of Ben and thought that since this is his first ever show, it has to be really good (or, in other words, it has to sing). So he got rid of the only thing stopping the show from singing, Ben. Cliff also could've been persuaded to kill because Ben was so rude to Cliff when Cliff asked if he wanted a cookie. So Cliff saw a way to make Ben's confidence castle fall, which was making Ben feel like a failure (for not fasting all the way after the show) at his darkest moment. And then Ben has come back to life. Cliff wasn't having it and pushed him.
EDIT: I forgot to mention I don't actually think Cliff pushed him but I don't really know who pushed him so I just said Cliff did.
my "hail mary" cliff theory is he told Mabel about Ben's watch setting was to create himself an alibi... but even that doesn't make logical sense :)
Because nobody’s put them in any danger in season 3, there might not be a murderer. It’s very possible the push was an accident.
It’s between Tobert and Howard for me. Tobert being missing from Oliver’s after party and Howard having keys to the Theater building.
I can lose Tobert --- Howard, has to be a true criminal mastermind revealed in season 5 :)
I tried counting how many bags Ben had to see how many hankies there were. Like would Tobert have gotten a hankie? Donna or Cliff?
Hell Yeah! Good work Detective!
I tried to do that too but couldn't tell. Lol
I want to know who gave them out. Ben couldn't have had the time to. Yet KT was surprised in ep 1 when she found out that Howard got one, despite the fact that she's the one who got the bags from Ben when he arrived. There didn't appear to be any name labels on them either. Maybe people looked through each other's card messages to determine which bag belongs to which person?
I just had a thought: I don't think the hankie that Ben had in his hand when he died is the same hankie that Kimber sold on eBay because Ben only gave them out (and also only had them ready) on opening night, and there's no way whoever bought it would have gotten it so quickly. I know Dickie got his from Uma really quickly, but that's just because they were both right in the building, so one remaining question is whose hankie was it?
Exactly - who's hankie? At times, I think it's a hankie that Tobert put there to frame someone in the show and put suspicion off him. But I'm more afraid that there is NO WAY for us to know the hankie's owner until the show reveals it
So not triplets but 3 children, 2 boys and a girl? We’ve had Dickie and Cliff be protected by their mothers but who’s the girl and their parent? (I think Donna poisoned Ben not to kill him just to incapacitate him to protect Cliff’s show)
So the poisoner and pusher are 2 different ppl.I’m unsure as to the pusher. Need to rewatch the party scene.
Wait could it be joy? Charles said something about her parents being alive ?!
Could Jerry Blau be both Dickie and Cliff’s father and perhaps KT his daughter?
That would be a Scooby-Doo twist :)
@@jlough99yes he could be if he is adoptive dad, real dad I suppose. He also called Loretta vicious but did not see that in the replay of Ben and her fighting before Charles came up. It would be a weird stretch since he seems very gay though
@@DoublePMedia lmao
Tobert definitely pushed Ben for some reason we'll find out in the finale. Mabel told Loretta that killers insert themselves into investigations and that's what Tobert did
If there are any clues (and I'm not sure there are ANY clues for the elevator death) Tobert would be the killer... but I get this nagging feeling it's not him?!?
@@DoublePMedia Then it's definitely Cliff there is a song in the soundtrack called "It Was an Accident Mom" also Clifford "cliff" and "Demeo" in latin means down, Ben was pushed down an elevator shaft.
It was Jerry who pushed Ben glenroy
The Shakespeare poster says Richard II or Dickie too. 🤔
That is grammatically and theoretically smart!
thank you!
Thank you for putting up with my silliness!
The recreation of the poisoning was all conjecture. We still don't know that Donna poisoned him. I wouldn't be surprised if Donna hadn't done either thing. Now, however, if Donna did do it, then we have to look at what Mabel said about the killer. That poisoning is a woman's crime. And that the killer pushes their way into the investigation. That's Tobert. He definitely pushed his way into the investigation. Tobert pushed him down the elevator shaft. Possibly.
Honestly, the writing this season has been poor. Too many McGuffins, too many contradictory discrepancies. The mystery took a back seat to the play, and that was a mistake, particularly given that they separated the 3 protagonists.
The KT thing is interesting. Because I think it's possible that Jerry Blau is Dickie's father, the guy who impregnated Loretta. I know Oliver mentioned a male partner, but that doesn''t mean he hadn't gotten involved with Loretta when they were both young. He was a stage director, she was an actress. It fits. And if that's so, then we found our final 'triplet', the girl. KT is Dickie's half-sister. So she could be the killer. She knew Ben had been tormenting Dickie their entire lives, Ben hadn't treated her well, and Ben was a liability to the play. And KT is the only character who's still flyting under the radar, so she would definitely be a surprise as the killer.
I'm still thinking Tobert pushed Ben. His weaseling his way into the investigation was always suspect. Though I still think he may be working with Cinda. We'll see.
If KT is Dickie's half-sister, and Jerry is hiding up there in the rafters, is it possible that the three of them were involved in the murder together? Maybe Loretta was also in on it?
Exactly --- but I have this odd idea that Donna will admit to poisoning Ben, so Cliff's play Death Rattle Dazzle will have its Nanny actress for the new opening night
Yes I think Donna was there to make sure Loretta didn't get indicted...she felt bad about her words in the bathroom and knows more than we do and if sick and dying she won't meet her maker letting an innocent woman stay in jail. I want to think Donna is better than that even as weird and gross as she is with Cliff and didn't try to kill Ben
I agree. I think Donna was there to help her.@@amandachilds5290
I can't get over Dickie crying over the hankie and throwing things around Ben's room. He was really distraught. Ben and Dickie are not blood related. Could it be possible that they were secretly lovers? They had the time together to build a relationship. They could pretend they were working on theater stuff. Maybe he was trying to save Ben from falling down the elevator shaft. It would be a great twist wouldn't it? In my opinion Ben looked puzzled when Loretta confessed. Could part of this be because he knew he had killed Ben?
Dickie needs his mommy to stop these emotional outbursts
The fog machine turns on by talking on intercom. It clears as Charles come on stage. The first page of the script that KT shreds dont mention fog machine.
Donna poisened Ben; but Dickie killed him. He had his Alibi photo ready to Hand. Who has that After someone confessed? A murderer. He also has a Motive and Kind of admits it to Lorreta.
I wish I could see how... but I can't see how they'll make Dickie the Deadly Killer
I follow where you're going and I like it. It would require one of the bigger heel turns though. Dickie seems genuinely distraught. I think we have two moms protecting their young. Donna with Cliff's show and Loretta with Dickie from Ben being a "dickie". :)
I think it's too early for the trio to be accurate, too predictable to be Donna covering for Cliff. Even if she poisoned him, I don't think she pushed him. I've heard some theories that Donna might have cancer. But I don't know if that'll play into the plot too much if it's true.
I think it's Tobert. He punched the door right after he was fired. He said he was looking for equipment but he walked away empty handed; I'm betting he was looking for the hankie, which I think they'll get it from Dickie and have Det Williams run it for prints and his will show up.
Right now, I'm trying to figure out: If the camera was in Ben's dressing room... how did the drive with the dressing room footage end up in the Penthouse days later, after the funeral???
first? After seeing Mabel's triplets, I didn't know this season was Rosemary's Baby
Mabel birthed a success podcast, nothing to sneer at :)
I was thinking Tobert may have seen who pushed ben down the elevator. What if the story about the baby elephant was about him seeing what happened to ben. My theories are he either saw ben fighting with someone, possibly recorded it, and then saw him get pushed down the elevator, or maybe he tried to intervene and accidentally pushed ben in the process. I was also thinking that the fight between loretta and ben could be foreshadowing the fact that ben was fighting with someone before he got pushed down the elevator. In that case it could have been dickie. Maybe when ben said dickie was dead to him, dickie got angry and pushed him.
Like this! How do you see the hankie tied into this death?
I didn't see a taped interview for Kimber.....kimber still in the mix somehow..but cliff for the push
Anyone else thinking that we might actually see part of death rattle and the killer might be in the audience. Maybe a scene in death rattle might link to the actual murder
I wonder if the killer is going to be chased up the lighthouse... and will they fall?
Or will we see there's no murder in Death Rattle Dazzle as it was a series of unfortunate incidents like final destination style and that's what Ben experienced too and fits with my Maxine is grim reaper/ banshee theory....I think 3 are accused like triplets or even confess but none did it like Charles sings and it is curse of Arconia more or less...that's what I hope even though two other theories are really good. The issue with police is they assume the person who was involved with Ben's death at they're must be involved with his elevator death and that's not necessary unless they have info we don't yet
I cant recall, are you aware of the "spoiler" that was released last week or are you aware, but choosing to ignore it?
Ive unfortunately seen it (I wont say what the spoiler is) and here is my prediction and attempt to how the clues tie it together. In the patter song, the triplets are Penelope, Patrick and Paco. Donna is Penelope and poisons Ben to harm the show in the spirit of The Producers and protect her son....Cliff is Patrick, after Ben returns to the party and then leaves, Cliff ends up talking to Ben in front of the open elevator, explains to him how stressed he was over all the drama, does his stress dance, which startles Ben, and Ben accidentally falls down the shaft. Tobert is Paco. Tobert is on the 10th floor with his GoPro and is recording and captures Cliffs stress dance causing Ben to go into the shaft. Donna/Cliff then do something to convince Tobert to help them/hide it/cover it up. The reason I think this theory for Tobert, is to answer the question "how is Bens death going to be proven"? There is no hotel security footage for the obvious reason. It wont be someone simply confessing. So there has to be a recording of it, and it wont be from the building security cameras. So it has to be from Tobert/his equipment. Another thing I dont see getting discussed is....what if it turns out Ben is not "murdered" and just "unfortunately died". Does that still align with the title of the show? Will fans be ok with it or not?
I really hope am wrong on this. Because the answer to the "who did it?" question will just end up being "The Producers", which many like you in the community connected very early on (granted without any details of how or why) based on the Broderick and Brooks having cameos and a play that was going down the drain. And I dont like that and feel is lazy and weak compared to the previous two seasons.
At this point, the poisoning had almost all the clues... while the elevator had few. I'm not sure I'd like it, but I could see Ben's final death being an accident.
What did you think of Eight Detectives? I read it recently, I thought it was great!
Anyway, back to the show - what if Cliff and Ben got into an argument near the lift shaft, and Cliff started stress-dancing and knocked Ben over the edge?
I want it to be Dickie though, personally. I would love the drama of it if Ben was really Loretta's biological son, and Dickie was trying to take everything 'back' from Ben. I don't think this is what will happen necessarily, but I would love that as a twist if it could somehow all come together and make sense. It would be so dark and sad and delicious.
I liked the book, but got frustrated for not solving everything :)
I think Cliff's cartwheel in the first episode & stress dancing are setting up an accidental knocking of Ben.
I too last week thought cliffs childlike acrobatics and dance off fight style might really make Ben fall and then it's more an accident. Lol. It would be funny and they have shown us him do unexpected moves before. This would be a good one for CLUE with multiple plausible options and I loved the musical aspect and the songs were fabulous and withe room scenes hilarious but others may not appreciate it. I wan there to be a real musical after this to go see on Broadway
And so many questions not answered! Who took the mangos? Why doesnt Dickie realize he used Ben as much as he says he covered up for Ben (which is his job, btw)
Haven't watch yet but thanks🌚❤
Watch! Think you're going to enjoy it!
My theory: Donna DeMao is Eloise Glenroy. Several clues are pointing to Dickie, Ben, and Cliff are fully aware of mom. Loretta is completely unaware, after all of these years, that this is Eloise. I feel like Eloise, Dickie, Ben, and Cliff all have varying motives that converge at jealously. I have so much to say and certain clues that point to this but the moment that made this light go off was when Donna and Loretta were in the bathroom and when Cliff informally says to Ben, “mom ordered these special” regarding the cookies.
That would be wonderful wild if true!
Loved season 3 can't wait to see season 4
Fingers crossed, the strike gets settled soon. They film Jan-April 2024, we get OMITB s4 in Fall 2024
Well this is actually my favorite season so far, because I am totally clueless😂
You've got so many clues :)
@@DoublePMedia Too many!
Countdown for the finale! So excited
Her stealing from ppl will be for season 4. She will steal the wrong thing not knowing it was actually precious. Maybe from a tenant that just moved or moving in.
we're on the same wavelength.... but I hope they don't kill Uma.
okay, everyone forgot the ending scene in season 2 where Charles threatens Ben telling him: "Be smart stay away from here, Ben I know what you did" seconds before Ben collapses on stage.
My hypothesis is - An angry Tobert calls Ben's phone at the after party to threaten or blackmail Ben. Ben leaves Oliver's apartment to go up to his penthouse and Dickie does not follow. Tobert reveals that he has evidence of a secret affair between Ben and Cliff. Cliff arrives to find Ben and Tobert fighting in front of the elevator. Cliff tries to break them apart and during this confusion Ben slips and falls down the elevator shaft. Cliff tells Donna about the accident and the affair. Donna hires Tobert to divert Mabel by inserting himself in the investigation. Being in the business for 40 years, Donna knew about Loretta's past and seeks the opportunity to manipulate her feelings for protecting Dickie and to plead guilty.
An affair between Ben and Cliff - this is the darkest timeline theory! :)
This is crazy but what if Loretta is actually Ben’s mother but she doesn’t know it and Dickie has been taking his place as the adopted son this whole season! Really unlikely but would be a sick plot twist
No wait I saw this theory earlier and they said that there was a discrepancy on her bus ticket date and Ben's date of birth! I haven't tried rewinding to find it myself though
no theory is crazy until episode 10 runs!
show spent so much time on the Death Rattle hankie - is it a red herring?
I hope not
what about Jerry Blau? Donna fired him. Maybe he wants to destroy the show for revenge. Plus, he's clearly coo-coo for cocopuffs
My two theories about who killed Ben:
1: Bobo (least likely suspect)
2: Cliff (everyone has more suspicion on Donna then Cliff)