Fire & Ice: The Winter War Between Finland and Russia -Part 2/2 (US Soldier Reacts)
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- čas přidán 2. 01. 2024
- American Soldier Reaction to Little Known Facts About Finland's Winter War Soldiers (Weird History).
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#winterwar
#fireandice
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My mother lost her parents in this war. I never got to know them.
Imagine being in that war, in that cold. I just wish more people could watch this and then think about what the russians are doing in Ukraine right now.
Exactly. I spent many days and weeks In the field in Germany during the winter months. Most of that field time was without heaters and it sucked. Even with proper winter clothing, it was still freezing 🥶. I can’t imagine how the soldiers got through that Winter War in that cold and misery. My respect to them and I am sorry for your family’s loss 🙏💙
@@JustAnotherArmyVet it's because they had no other choice. They either defended and fought, or we'd all be speaking russian right about now, it was understood by all - the troops, the lottas (nurses and women's auxiliaries), women at home left to do the work of men, even children. We prayed, as a nation, to last and remain independent. The men on the lines were thinking 'if I don't do my part, the enemy will cross this bit of land and take over Finland again, freedom will be over', I bet. (Lost family in the Winter War, too, and thankfully got to know my wounded Great-Grandpa and -Grandma, Karelian refugees)
Also, an important distinction - Finland didn't actually _ally_ with Germany. We were co-belligerents, not formal, full allies (just as you said, enemy of our enemy, we both had reason to go against the Soviet Union so...). Sorry, but it's important to stress that, as we were never Nazis ourselves, nor did we condone what happened in the Holocaust. :)
@@TheObscureRambler thanks for clarifying all that 🙂👍
As a Finn, I appreciate that you said how we were not allied with the Nazis ot never shared the Nazi mind set in general.
We had to survive and I'm glad we did 🎉
Of course. I wanted to make sure that everyone understood that it was more of “an enemy of our enemy is also our friend” kind of situation.
All these documentaries were made in more optimistic times... not much hope for any good relations with Russia in the future, they are getting closer and closer to what they were like in the late 1930s again. The Karelians will certainly never see their homes again.
I kind of get that same feeling as well, unfortunately… 🙁
@@JustAnotherArmyVet
US invaded Philippines in 1898 and kept it under its rule nearly 50 years. Even the official language was set to English. But of course Filipinos resisted heavely, some 100,000 were killed. 😖
Do US school children know this??
@@mikaveekoo some know this. I did.
Sissi is a Finnish term for light infantry which conducts reconnaissance, sabotage and guerrilla warfare operations behind enemy lines. Like the jägarstrid in Sweden like in the series of Jägare :)
Ahh yes, got it!! Thanks for clarifying 🙂👍
my grandparents were from Karelia so I am part of that heritage, they lost everything and faced racism here in Finland which is sad... I still keep up Karelian traditions with food making..
That is a great idea. Keep traditions and food alive for all of the future generations. 🙂
One veteran told " Just minutes the armstice, his friend was hit and died. A friend since childhood. He thought, minutes ago he was alive, and now he is dead. ...and thats it. What do you mean the war is over. It will never be over !!! "
So horrible! It’s like “All Quiet on the Western Front.” 😢
My mother born in Viborg Karelia march 1939, war start november 1939. My grandmother took her and my mothers two brothers and left their home. Grandfather works railways so he was not in Karelia that time. It takes two weeks before he found his family. Today it is sad that russians do not know what their soldiers do in Ukraine.
Thanks for sharing your family’s story. 💙
My grandfather from mother´s side told us grandchildren, me and my cousins war stories sometimes in sauna. Best times ever, dim, hot, we were all children, stories were the most exciting ever. But he never said a word about the war(s) to their kids, our parents. Maybe names of their battlebrothers, but nothing else. My grandmother from mother´s side was in Lotta -organization as young teen, she was in air surveillance and then in body-cleaning. My father´s father was in the war, he came back broken violent drunk wreck and died of diabetes and alcohol, his leg had to be amputated, all before I was born. My father´s mother, also young girl was one of about 400000 - 500000 people evacuated from areas soviets stole. She was born in Viipuri, lost in the war, which was the 2nd most populated city in Finland at the time, place of culture and commerce. Also Karelians were probably the least grim and quiet Finns.
Continuation War was basically about getting the lost land back.
Thank you so much for sharing your story. It’s always nice to hear different perspectives from people. 💙🇫🇮
If you visit Eastern Finland , you must visit Suomussalmi and the Road of Raate .
Beautiful areas?
I don't know if it's true, but about 35 years ago in the army, we trained with different cannons and we were told that now we have fired the last ammunition received as war booty from Raatteentie.
I took powder bags as a souvenir, which are now more than 100 years old.
Oh wow!!!
Larry was from Vyborg, as was my late grandmother.
Thanks for sharing!
Really like these Finland reactions, hopefully there is more coming :D
Great, thanks!! Yea, there will be more in the future 🙂
This Karelia back gets a lot of attention because a lot of people were evacuated from there. If one day Finland gets Karelia back, it should get it as it was given, i.e. without people.
Personally, I think we would rather take back the other arm, because then we would have a route to the Arctic Ocean and be entitled to the riches found there, such as oil and gas. And in Kuusamo, Finland's best vacation spots remained on the other side of the border.
Kuusamo is still a part of Russia?
@@JustAnotherArmyVet Only the eastern parts of the Kuusamo-Salla area. The land area was 1,653 km² and there were about 2,100 inhabitants.
The area of Paanajärvi located there and its surroundings was known for its natural beauty and versatile natural values already in the 19th century, and Akseli Gallen-Kallela (One of Finland's most important painters), among others, moved there.
@@ravenfin1916 thanks for clarifying
US invaded Philippines in 1898 and kept it under its rule nearly 50 years. Even the official language was set to English. But of course Filipinos resisted heavely, some 100,000 were killed. 😖
Sad
Happy New Year! Keep up the great work!
Thanks! You too! 🤗
If im correct the last push artillery barrage was something like 100 shells per second per km^2 in intervals on the front by the russians. Dont think the pacific was near that but i might wrong.
That was a lot!
Always love your comments, knowledge and experience about these different kind of videos as you keep the facts right. Seen other, non related to me, videos by you and always on point !
Awe thanks! I appreciate your comment! I may not know all the history behind videos like this. But, I do try to offer what knowledge I do have. 🙂
@@JustAnotherArmyVet Keep up the good work !!!!
Thanks for putting a smile on my face 😄. Just curious: What kind of content would you like to see me do more of?
@@JustAnotherArmyVet Just do what you do; at the end of the day we are happy that you deliver content for us to see.
@@Finland-SkiTeam39-40 🤗🤗🤗
I have done genealogical research and found more than twenty relatives who died during WW2 in Finland. My grandfather was wounded by shrapnel 12.07.1942 at the Russian front (54 Sota S) and died 02.08.1942. My mother was then only 9 years old.
Oh wow. Sorry about your families loss. 😢
18:50 Lauri Törni was from Vyborg. Area in South-East of Finland.
Ahh okay. Thanks! Häyhä was from Rautjärvi, which I think is considered Karelia 🤔
@@JustAnotherArmyVet On the Fin side of the border there is Still North Karelia and South karelia. Rautjärvi is in the south.
the eastern Karelia is the area that was lost. (north of lake Ladoga) And the Karelian isthmus.(south of Ladoga lake)
Thanks for clarifying!
So his home was safe, right?
Yes it is still in area that is inside of Finlad (/Edit: Simo Häyhä, White dead i mean.) Lauri's hometown is now in Russian side.@@JustAnotherArmyVet
About Germany and Finland. "Your enemys enemy is your friend".
Yes! The enemy of your enemy is also your friend. EXACTLY
Also react to the continuation war and the Lapland war, this is just one part of the finnish war in ww2. Coming from a finnish nco.
I will have to find some good videos on those. 👍
Some relating videos: "Finnish Kommandos - Finns in the Second Boer War", "Finnentag 2015 in Hohenlockstedt", "Jääkärit väreissä, Lockstedt 1916", "The Finnish Jägers In World War 1 I THE GREAT WAR On The Road", "Marsalkka Mannerheimin kunniamerkit | Marskalk Mannerheims ordnar", "Mannerheim The General Who Beat Stalin", "Finnish Long Range Patrols Behind Soviet Lines (’41 - ’44)", "FINNISH LONG RANGE PATROLS AND AMPHETAMINE" and "Units of History - Finnish Ski Troops of the Winter War (1939) (Part 1 of 2) DOCUMENTARY",
Great, thanks!!
I am from Suomussalmi. My moms home was 4km to border and it is one of 2 Vienan Carelia villages what did stay in our side after war. My granddad did burn their house and all places what Russians can stay and keep warm. After war they build back villages. On our school had in 8-class trip to Raate Road to see what it is then. When they build that Raate monument I was one who was asked to build muldimedia system to its museum because I was on firm what build before it system to Suomussalmi stopper what is near 5-road...
Thanks for sharing! You built the system for the museum? The one that is in operation today?
@@JustAnotherArmyVet Nah, it was 1997 so... What I did build was history program to NT4 computer what tell about 9,000 years of Suomussalmi history and also system to local bussiness & locations to visit in Suomussalmi in other NT4 computer. Those computers did go bad before 2010 :) . So my moms village is Kuivajärvi and other was Hietajärvi, Kuivajärvi is about 20km south from Raate.
@@anonymousbinarytrader552 🙂
Even surviving in those conditions is brutal and exhausting. If you go to winter hike with modern clothing, its still about surviving. How to keep dry, warm and get sleep hour by hour. Your body is burning itself, if you don't get enough food. I don't understand how these solders were able to fight there. Ok it was bit easier in continous war when you occasionally had time to build even cosy cabins and bunkers out of wood.
Some of those cabins and others builds and gadgets they had to made out of nothing are stunning and unbelievable to think what kind of skill and effort it would take to make those in war time conditions. You can find pictures from finnish war archives online specially from trench warfire time. I couldnt do even with power tools and youtube.. Like there you have it, 5 star sauna spa, just take your own riffle and towel.
With a sleeping bag system and military gear, I learned how to sleep in below freezing temperatures in the field in Germany. I am an expert at that. BUT, those soldiers did not have any of that!! It must have been miserable!! And I had no idea that they were able to build the cabins in the Continuation War. I need to find images or videos of that. I am very curious!
Hey there Kylie? I am Janne from Finland and living north Finland. I have served in Jäegerbrigade in Sodankylä in Battalion of Sodankylä as a Motorised companys field officer, started as a seargent and ending up to Masterchief? 4 angle attached each other and 2 angles under that ;DD In Finland we called it Master Soldier :D I liked your react to Fire and Ice
Hello!! Thanks for your kind words and for sharing ! I am from South Carolina 🙂
nice reaction :)
couple things here,
- as here where i live has been now below -30 celsius for few days, and seems it is for week or two from now on. about that part of documentary where the soviets are frozen but still standing like they never knew they got killed, it might sound like way too much but actually here when it is -35 celsius, and just a little wind and you take your gloves off, you can pretty much immediately feel like your fingers are freezing, just in minutes you feel like the fingers are more like burning than cold. so i dont wonder if those soviets were already so cold that they didnt feel their legs or so, it might be actually true that they freeze so fast that they are still standing in position whne they died, in winter war time the weather could been even -50 celsius at some places, but we dont know for sure how cold actually was because those places where the measure the weather were not in every corner of course. even here where i live the temperature can change from -30 to -40 celsius just within 10km from my house.
- also i think finland WON that war because soviet tried to occupy whole finland, not just part of it, and they never took whole finland. so thats kinda win for finland :D
- also, i hate how russia/soviets took the karelian isthmus... they took it but never maintenanced even roads or never really upgraded any infrastructure or so. it looks way worse than what the area looked when finland owned it... so what was the point of taking karelian isthmus? they probably would have left whole finland just to rot away lol. so its win win :D
I think your point about the Russians freezing is right. That does make sense. And I can’t imagine how cold they must have been. That just sounds miserable to me 🥶. That would be my worst nightmare Lol. I’m glad I live in South Carolina! Anyway, thanks for your insight and for your kind words!! I hope you are having a happy new year! 🙂
Even at -50 degrees celsius it would take way too long to freeze for that part to be true.
@@StanleyMilgramm have you been in -40c naked? I have... if blood circultaion stops it freezes immediately, for sure in -50c
@@MrBanaanipommi Yes I have but why is that relevant? The soldiers weren't naked. Have you tried putting meat in the freezer? It takes hours for it to freeze.
@@StanleyMilgramm freezer also is around -20 or less usually, not same thing as -50... lol
The Finnish Army Doctrine 2015 still takes lessons from motti tactics. Basically it is the modernized and preplanned version of the same idea. And as we can see in Ukraine, the Russian doctrine has not changed much over the years. Here is a video of the basics of the Army Doctrine 2015 and there is also a more cinematic "Combat" video of it, which shows how it should work in practive. if you are interested. English subs on both of course. czcams.com/video/2crAx8kibis/video.htmlsi=SFRCeK8FfLByQtYd
Interesting thing in the Army Doctrine 2015 is that in Nato exercises it has worked great against the US Army too. It is designed to defend against a superior enemy with mobility and flexibility. It works, because even the US Army has certain inflexibility in command structure, that cannot be eliminated in an army structure as large as it is. That is the weakness of major armies in the world the Finnish doctrine exploits. And if it works against the US, who are lightyears ahead of the Russians, it will surely work against the Russkies too. 😅
Thank you so much for taking your time to provide your insight. I will check the the video out 🙂
There are 2 videos? I only saw 1
Finland had cooperated with Estonia before the war to create a Barrier across the Gulf of Finland with coastal batteries and mines.
This was intended to keep the Russian navy locked up in Leningrad. But with Estonia being occupied during the winter war that plan fell through.
Most of the Finnish coastal artillery where leftovers from Tsarist Russia that had been modestly modernized like turning guns upside down to increase their elevation.
During the winter war some duels between Russian naval units including battleships and coastal batteries took place but with the Ice setting in most naval operations ended.
The US would not export weapons to a country at war because of the Neutrality laws at the time so Sweden acted as the middleman for much of the arms deliveries to Finland.
Fighters for Finland where assembled in Trollhättan and test flown prior to delivery. Finland received fighters from The UK (Hurricane) France (Ms406) and Italy (Fiat G50) as well as Sweden (Gladiator).
The ship you see the America-Finns boarding is the Gripsholm which is part of the Swedish America Line, she spent much of the war doing repatriations and prisoner exchanges.
She repatriated the Japanese Embassy staff and 1000 other Japanese from the US to Japan in June of 1942 for instance. Bringing Back Americans from the Far East.
Sweden had 100.000 men mobilized in Northern Sweden as a Safeguard against a Soviet Breakthrough, when the Situation became Critical in February March for Finland they made a direct appeal to the Swedish government for those Divisions to join in the Defence of Finland. The Request was denied.
It is here during the Winter war that Sweden is the closest to consider joining in the fighting. So when Norway is Invaded in April Sweden already has it's policy clear to keep out of the War.
Thank you so much for your insight! It was a good documentary, but they did not mention any of that stuff. So thanks for sharing 👍🙂
@@JustAnotherArmyVet The Finnish air force was so small during the war that it was concentrated in south east Finland leaving the rest of the country undefended.
So when Sweden sent a volunteer air force with 12 fighters and 4 dive bombers (Gladiator and Hawker Hart) they got half of Finland as their responsibility.
Sweden was just about to send Ju86 bombers and P35 Fighters to Finland when the war ended.
The Swedish navy escorted convoys to Finland up to the Finnish 3 mine limit.
This was very similar to how the US navy in for half of 1941 escorted British convoys halfway across the Atlantic.
Basically Sweden's hole defence industry was put at the disposal of the Finns during the war with Bofors working 24/7 to deliver ammunition to Finland.
It was also a last minute purchase of 37mm anti tank guns from the Swedish Army that allowed the Finns to have at least 2 guns per battalion when the War broke out.
Yes, like the Tom Hanks movie, Greyhound!!
25:48 The often called forgotten line is only less than 1 1/2 hr away from Helsinki. As after War South Western city of Hanko (after winter war) (after continuation war there was even larger area of Porkkala) was leased to Soviets the Finns put defensive line against that so there is dugouts, trenches and granite made tank obstacles.
Thanks for your insight! I did not know that! 🙂
Soviets abounded it after Germans occupied Estonia so it was not used after that that much but still fine piece of history.@@JustAnotherArmyVet
Abandoned?
Yes.used wronf word.
@@JustAnotherArmyVet
Thanks for clarifying 👍
The Iroquois were Indians that sided with the French against the British colonists if I remember the history correctly.
Also the official Army name of the UH-1 helicopter (originally HU-1 known as Huey), is Iroquois.
Best wishes for the new year 2024.
I did not know that! Interesting. Thanks for sharing!! Happy New year!
@@JustAnotherArmyVet This video about the geopolitical situation in our part of the world may be of interest:
czcams.com/video/AcOoEz6FJKE/video.html
Although there was a much disputed "friendship agreement" signed between Greece and Turkey few months ago, Turkey still holds in effect the Casus Belli (cause for war) should Greece enforces it's rights in accordance with the UNCLOS and still makes various provocative statements.
However, the number of Greek airspace violations have been reduced from a record 11 000+ last year to almost none so far this year.
This most probably reflects Turkey's request to the US, for modernization of its F-16 fleet, along with purchase of 40 new F-16s and a deal to license built GE F-110 jet engines for its indigenous fighter aircraft the TAI TF Kaan, expected to make its first flight this Summer.
The Greek Government has been severely criticized by the opposition for giving Turkey an alibi, by signing a "friendship" agreement (most likely due to pressures by the US government) that negates many efforts by the US Congress to block such a deal because of the purchase of the Russian S-400 missile system.
Congress considers that Turkey, violated the Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) United States federal law and also objects to the use of US aircraft against a NATO allies' sovereignty.
It seems that the US government is offering Greece the approval for the purchase of 24 F-35s as a way to balance the modernization of 80 Turkish F-16s to block 70 and the purchase of 40 new F-16s (Greece is currently modernizing 83 F-16s to block 72).
The general sentiment in Greece is that when Turkey gets what it wants from the US will start it's own "games" all over again.
For now we are on a wait and see situation, given the troubles in Gaza, Ukraine and Yemen.
It was not between Finland and Russia. It was between Finland and Soviet union, in fact the 44th division was from Ukraine
Yes, correct 👍
Finland is a very very long way from Ukraine, hard to imagine that the 44th division had any interest other than self perseverance against the bullying of their masters.??
My great uncle was at Raate.
Respect to him
In the continuation war, he was in Kuuterselkä and the battle of Tali-Ihantala. Then he went to Lappland to drive away the Germans.
Did he survive all the wars?
@@JustAnotherArmyVet Yes. Passed away in the 70s.
You must be proud of him
You should check Aimo Koivunen. His story is so funny and not so funny but fucking legend. 😉
I will check it out, thanks 👍
And the Russians are still using the same, or at least mostly extremely similar tactics today in Ukraine.
Thanks for your insight 👍
ah americans have to praise their own but seems like not finnish production. Fact was, nobody really helped which leaded to pact with Deutschland. They actually did...
Huh?
Just out of curiosity: What does it mean to be a "American army veteran?" (because here in Finland the military is mandatory) so does it mean that you have been in real combat or just been in the army? I saw this documentary today about the 1997 Bank Of America (north Hollywood) heist in which the policemen said that those two 7.62X39mm chinese assault rifles that jammed every 10 rounds the bad guys used during the robbery "was the loudest gunfire they had ever heared" and i laughed my a*s off. Out here even female officers go to the army.
Was that documentary on CZcams?
A military veteran in the United States just means anyone who has served in the military 🙂. So a US Army veteran would be someone who served in the US Army.
@@JustAnotherArmyVet Yes it is, just write "North Hollywood Shootout 1997" and there will be 3/4 different kind of documentaries and a movie called "44 minutes" made about the events. This military refresher course (we go to every two years) contained once again the "crawl foward for 300 yards under two (with 10 X extended belts + using live rounds barrels literally smoking) MG's spraying fire above you"- exercise so the sound dont get psychologically devastating. Because the rule number one about supressive fire: never freeze under fire because the enemy troops will flank you; advance fast. So those officers would not try to play heroes using 9mm Beretta 92F pistols against them from 40 yards away - the bad guys had literally even A3 level groinprotection they made out of kevlar vest parts etc. so cops had nothing to compete against the three chinese AK's with 100- round drumms filled with steel coated bullets, 308 cal H&K-91, .223 AR-15 converted to full-autom. with 100 round double drum clips = they had five assault rifles with 3000 rounds and a heavy bodyarmour so these patrol officers could do nothing but take cover even 350 VS. 2 men untill 45 min. later a four men SWAT unit took care of the scene. Only after this event the pentagon gave thumbs up and 600 patrol rifles to be in use of the police since the 92 "LA riots".
@@markkuhexen-sonderauftrag7760 this? czcams.com/video/yKc3ggtGLnQ/video.htmlsi=ZWiY7_WK_vTwORLK
I don't want to be rude but Battle of the Bulge average temperature of 20 degrees Fahrenheit (about minus -7 C.) Winter war average was -15 Celsius. Low point was Karelian Isthmus experiencing a record low temperature of −43 °C (−45 °F) on 16 January 1940.
Maybe that god was our side afterall :)
No worries 🙂! Thanks for commenting and giving us some facts 👍
Both were miserable 🥶🥶
Hope that too... Why the worlds biggest area country need some more land? SAD.
@@carp77 good point 😔
Want my roots back.
🇫🇮💙
These documents don't give realistic picture Winter War or our equipments that time! And 1940 we had peace after Winter War Soviet Union attacked against unarmed civilian route flight Ju-52 Kalevala - name! Amount deads was American, French and Germans with Finns! 2 Soviet Union planes shoot this plane down and submarine was sent to clean the evidence! Our goverment decided tell technical problems that dropped the plane! And after wars some officers escaped to United States after that Americans special troops are getting Winter servival course in Alaska!
Oh wow. I did not know that. Thanks for sharing!!! Today, I believe the Army’s cold weather training is held in Fort Drum, New York.
I guess you don't know answer next guestion! Name at least one American Who has fought also Nazi army, but after war American troops in Vietnam both as officer?
Lauri Torni of course!!! 🙂🙂
The Soldier of 3 Armies!
The part about bodies instantaneously freezing in the positions they were in mere seconds ago is obviously nonsense. It takes much longer for a human body to freeze. Finns did however position dead already frozen soviet soldiers for others to see as a psychological tactic.
The Finns had a lot of smart tactics during the Winter War!
I am sorry :( Its only russian language and finnish subs....:(
😔