Localize Everything - Finding Hardcore Fans Worldwide - Extra Credits
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- čas přidán 25. 04. 2017
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Nothing feels worse than seeing a game you really like but can't play because it's only being released in another part of the world. But does it have to be that way? Here's why we think every console game should be published worldwide.
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Raise your hand if you've ever wanted to play a game that didn't get translated into your language. Here's exactly why it should be.
Extra Credits *hand raised*
Extra Credits You guys are awsome!!!
*raises hand
o/
rhythm tengoku you know
Localization isn't just a matter of money, though. It's also a matter of human resources. Who is hiring the translators? How many are needed to localize all of the games? How is quality control handled? Who is responsible if a game is released with bad translations? How are cultural differences handled, if such differences may need changes beyond translating the text?
Well in the video I got the impression that they would give the money to the game devs to localize themselves
Please tell me there actually is an fps dating sim.
Gal*Gun: Double Peace. Specifically the True Love route. You're welcome.
Although it's more of a rail shooter than an FPS. But it's the closest I can think of. :P
Arlo Mates please let it be named Love Gun.
Yandere simulator? It's not really an FPS, but it's fairly close.
No its not. First person is a large part of FPs
Yeah, Mass Effect.
I actually learned english because of unlocalised games.
Same if only Japanese was as easy as english I'd be a happy weeb.
I learned both English and Japanese thanks in part to loving foreign games. I find it funny that when people talk of localization they act as though English is the only language that exists. Not that I mind any more, of course, but it still rubs me the wrong way. Such ethnocentrism.
Dreikoo Its because English is used and seen as an international language when it comes to business and trade.
Wojack Feel Well English is actually hard as hell.
PapaSmurf Smurfy but it’s simpler than chinese/korean/japanese
A valid point, but there's one very important part you missed as for why companies don't localize their games. Not only is it niche, but the muddy copyright laws internationally can make it impossible to localize many of those niche games without removing content.
For example, if you dig deeper you'll find that major parts of some games can legally only be sold in Japan and not anywhere else (a big reason why games don't get duel audio when localized. Many voice actor contracts forbid the sale of their voice overseas). Another example would be the copyright of fair use overseas, like the Mother 3 case where there's content in it that's fine if it stays in Japan, but if it came to America stuff would have to be removed to satisfy legal disputes. Or furthermore, just simple smaller devs who don't want their work overseas, or have a huge legal spiderweb of who owns what when going international, for example, I would KILL to see Super Robot Wars localized but the severe mess of legal mumbo jumbo regarding what and how you'd be able to localize all those different IPs would make a university law professors head spin.
And god help you if you referenced real world anything in your game and now have to get ready to release it internationally. Now more than just your standard translation localization fee you now either need to pay extra to get said companies permission to use their stuff overseas or spend even more money on localization scrubbing all references out.
At the least with SRW they start release english version sub even if we have to import from Asia :D
Its stuff like this that make European releases usually take ages. So many different languages, cultures and governments to tackle its insane anyone actually bothers.
Seriously, we have to somehow push for a simplification of copyright laws. This seems harder to me than getting USA to finally stop being at war.
The problem is, to push for even the most minor of copyright reform, you're going to be up against extremely well-funded business interests who have made it their mission in life to shit on both creators and consumers and have the system set up exactly how they like it.
erejnion: It's unfortunate that people now have to spend all of their energy just trying to prevent civilization from collapsing, so there's no energy left over to try to fix some of the still-major-but-not-yet-civilization-ending problems society faces. -_-
I read the title and instantly thought Mother 3. Nice to see it included in this video
Imposter Ditto Play the fan translation. Odds are it'll never be localized considering it's age.
They recently localized Mother 1, didn't they?
Opossum what makes you think I haven't already?
Professor Detective Yep, Earthbound: Beginnings
So I'm going to guess theirs's probably no statute of limitations for getting these out, then.
There's also the added bonus of deterring would-be pirating as already localized means they don't have to pirate and add self-made patches to the game just to play it. There are many people that wouldn't have pirated a game in the first place if it had a fully localized digital version available to pick up from the start.
www.pcgamer.com/gabe-newell-on-piracy-and-steams-success-in-russia/
Most notably when Valve started working to offer localized games to Russia and gave them just as much priority of other localization, they saw more sales. So whatever cost of the localization, was absolutely made up in the amount of new sales that came simple due to it being localized and offered.
Accessibility = $
Now if we could get publishers to understand that with other forms of accessibility so we could fund those as well.
Well... Steam was also successful in Russia thanks to regional prices. Russians have low salaries unlike Germans or British, and even today full-priced localized console game is a luxury. Just compare $60 on consoles and $15 on PC. But yeah, localization sure played it's role. Back in the day the only way to play the game in Russian was by buying pirated copy with built-in underground localisation. Though PC games slowly developed and were translated officially, only few console games were localized. E.g. Dark Souls in 2011 didn't have Russian language on console versions, while its PC release in 2012 already had Russian language built-in.
This. Lack of localization is currently one of very few good arguments for piracy.
This. If FE Fates's localization DIDN'T cut content, I wouldn't have had to hack my 3DS just to play the complete version of the game I already paid full price for.
Exactly. I modded my PSP and pirated FF Type-0 and Valkyria Chronicles 3. They finally released Type 0 on PS4/XBO and I gave them money for it. Still waiting for give Sega money for VC3. Balls in your court Sega.
squkyshoes That feature wasn't exactly necessary to the game, so I wasn't sad to see it go.
As a translator I must also word out how complicated and tricky localization and translation can be for many games; from language tics to puns to cultural references: do we translate and add an explanation or do we purely localize? Blizzard always chose to purely localize (achievements and quest names and character names in French and Spanish always reference something of the French speaking and Spanish speaking worlds). And hardcore fans are either fan of one or the other, this is the dub vs sub debate all over again ;)
I tend to try a majority (like 2/3) of the games which multiple of my friends suggest which fall under the category of
1) Is a PC game
2) Is either f2p or has a free demo that I can try
3) Is in a language that I can understand well enough (ie Italian, English, or French)
For those who didn't know what localization was either:
Localization is the adaptation of a product or service to meet the needs of a particular language, culture or desired population's "look-and-feel."
You guys missed an insanely important point!!
THE PLAYER WILL BE *SO HAPPY* THEY CAN FINALLY PLAY MOTHER 3 THEY'LL LITERALLY WORSHIP YOU
No, seriously, Temples will be made and goats will be sacrificed.
Why would they sacrifice goats? Goats are awesome (and maybe sacred). They'd actually be sacrificing chickens and you know it.
Chicken Nuggets*
Oh you want some sauce?
i have a fan localized version on my ds but i dont play it i only beat the first section
The 80/20 rule: 80% of your revenue comes from 20% of your customers.
Sony: Hey, Nathan Drake! You're my guy, right?
Microsoft: Master Chief, how you been man? You got me?
Nintendo: Alright boys, time to show these chumps what "console exclusive" REALLY means.
XD Dying Laughing 1:21
Jimmy Mullen #Emulators
Nintendo cont'd: Because you're all we've got! We can't get a third-party property for love, money, or love-money! And we lost Samus, just freaking lost her. What the heck, man.
Then Nintendo pops little Valium pills painted like super mushrooms.
Geoff F.
Now how exactly did they lose Samus again?
The freaking Inklings are already being prepped for push Master Chief around
What about smash bros?
Localize Pepsi Man.
I've seen the speedrun, what's to localize there?
It’s been out for forever
emulation exists
can we spam this video to SEGA Japan? I mean granted they finally localized Yakuza 5 & Zero... but still where's the everything else
just give me Valkyrie Chronicles 3 dammit!
artistafrustrado
Yeah. Sonic has basically been the only thing we get... in part because he sells better in the US than he does in Japan
*Twiddles thumbs while waiting for PSO2, or for SEGA to recognize Phantasy Star's existence at all for that matter*
Like... they were so close with PSO2 it's not even funny. They had an English site, they had a Western Release Trailer. They STILL haven't taken those things down, and still haven't localized the game after 5 years of those being published. It'd be almost impossible to localize it now because it's so far behind on content and because of the copyright nightmare of all the cross promotions they've done over the years in their AC scratches. It still sucks. :(
I am literally purchasing a PS4 to play Persona 5 and Nier Automata, japanese games have been so solid this year so far, if they werent localized it would suck so much
Nier Automata is on PC. Never heard of Persona.
My PC isnt strong enough to play it, and xbone doesnt carry it. Persona just blew up a few days ago. Look into it stylish AF
Aleks Murauskas pick up Nioh while you're at it. It's basically just Japanese Dark Souls
Televised Water Polo yeah i have been considering it, but first has gotta be bloodborne
I know you're right, but part of me likes being console trash
Localize localize so it becomes localise.
Nailed it.
For local eyes.
With low cal. ryes.
and loco lies.
When I see the Z I feel like I have local lice. #localise
2k left. The countdown to 1 million is almost over.
9 hours later... 1.5k left
Only a little less than 200 now. :D
Only 6 left!
I know! XD Omg, I can't believe how excited I am!!
One Mill reached! Congratz!
Congrats on FINALLY hitting 1 million! Honestly, you deserved it way sooner!
You guys are almost at a million, congratz in advance!
Whom here is still waiting for that Dai Gyakuten Saiban localisation?
Boi i'm just waiting for that game!
The problem is *they* know we want it, but they don't tell us why they won't localize it.
one aspect might be that Sherlock Homes is still under copyright in the US so with that marked not beeing present it might not be worth it for them. And imagine the shitstorm if they localised it but changed his name.
No joke, many years ago, the certainty that Gyakuten Kenji 2 wasn't going to be released in English was one of the final straws that made me start learning Japanese (lol @ how long i thought it would take back then). Fast-forward a few years. Another game in the series skips localization and, rather satisfyingly, I can actually understand the Gyakuten games in Japanese well enough to play through them now.
So why don't they simply tell us there are copyrights and we have to wait until 2020?
I got some information from Uwabami, who's in charge for DGS fantranslation, and he said there shouldn't be problems with that because the Sherlock Holmes' stories in DGS1 aren't related to the still-copyrighted stories in USA, so there should be another motive behind it.
(You can get updates from fantranslation here: gbatemp.net/threads/project-the-great-ace-attorney-dai-gyakuten-saiban-fan-translation.427572/page-55
They translated the first case.)
I think the motive is economic. They are afraid to not sell enough.
AAI1, the first and the only spin-off game released in west, has sold almost nothing (considering there weren't many ads, the game was only english and eShop was just a feature for Wii, not for DS).
Considering how they treated us western players with only digital copy and only english for Dual Destinies and Spirit of Justice, i think it's safe to say they have no trust on the community.
But in meanwhile, in Japan, they released two pachinkos about Ace Attorney, and for what i know, they are really expensive.
I gave up. TGAA will never come over.
So I see you heard of Project Rainfall: Xenoblade, The Last Story, Pandora's Tower. Three games that did very well in Asia, and got a modestly large group of people to get them localized for the Americas & Europe.
Heyyy Extra Credits just got over a million subscribers. Awesome! With every video I learn so much, and gain so much inspiration. I really think that Extra Credits speaks with the most professional and forward motivating voice in the gaming industry. I love this channel, keep it up guys! :)
Well stated, and, as always, your presentation has been top notch.
I love your videos because they are well thought out, well executed, and pleasant to watch. James, thank you for all the great ideas and arguments, and Daniel, thank you for making everything you say professional and suitable for everyone. I know a few videos have, by necessity, been inappropriate for certain audiences, but even then, you always do a great job of keeping the material relevant and beneficial. I also want to thank your artists for the excellent content they provide. Every episode is as visually attractive as it is audibly. Keep up the good work.
Congrats!!!!!!!!!! You guys have hit a million subs!!!!
Every body shout with me : *MILLION*!
One thing you left out: for a game to be localized, it has to be internationalized during development - which, of course, major studios do by default, but smaller studios may consider a development cost they can skip - especially if those studios have fewer than, say, three programmers, who might not even know any best practices for internationalization.
Going back on existing code and internationalizing it can be a big headache - especially when strings are composed in time sensitive pieces of code. Such pieces of code might have been written entirely differently if internationalization had been a consideration from the start so they could see the performance issues, but now changing those string compositions might break the performance and thus need a non-trivial rewrite. This isn't the case with all strings and sound cues, of course, but finding the bottlenecks is harder when the whole thing is written than if you find them during development.
And whether or not a game was written with internationalization in mind from the start, you have to fully re-test the entire game in every localization, otherwise strings might not fit in the space allotted for them, which can sometimes wreak havoc on a UI (and that's ignoring all the issues different text-directions can cause). That testing can be a non-trivial expense, which would be bundled into the cost of localization to be sure, and thus in your proposal billed to the publisher, but it can lead to non-trivial changes to art/UI and code which smaller studios might not be able to afford.
The irony me and my best friend were talking about this (mostly in regards to a game series I like that has quite a few good games not localized) before this popped up is striking. You basically said what we said, plus added on more reasons and fixes! You guys are really cool.
Congratulations on reaching 1million subs, I have been a big fan of the channel for a long time. Keep up the amazing work :)
I would love to see a "Games You Might Not Have Tried" on this subject. I think there are some niche games and franchises from outside the US that could really use a boost in hype.
NieR: Automata is a strong argument.
Square Enix did little to no marketing for this game, yet it spoke for itself and sold like hot cakes in other regions.
Congrats on a million subs, guys! You really deserve it! :)
This is how I got into Professor Layton, so many years ago. I found Curious Village for cheap in 2009, got obsessed and followed the series from then on, finding Japanese trailers on youtube and tracked down translated articles. t was the main reason I got a DS Lite and then a 3DS when the series hopped generations. Layton Bros. was why I got a smartphone, for crying out loud. I can't wait for Lady Layton.
"Localize Everything"
Of course, the first game mentioned is Mother 3.
The worst is when a game is fully localized and ready to sell and just doesn't happen. Or when the original language release has every language under the sun as either subtitled or voice over and never sees an international release.
This video offered a different perspective that I haven't seen anywhere else. This is one of the main advantages of extra credits. Few game design shows on CZcams actually have professionals on the show. Others just see the games, but here, you see from the maker's point of view.
OMG SO CLOSE TO 1 MILLION!! Congratulations! :-D
YES MORE GUNDAM BREAKER! MORE TALES OFF! MORE RYTHM HEAVEN!
Nakamura Ryou Gundam had the game I always wanted localised... Gihrens Greed always looked like so much fun... couldn't ever play it
So close to a million subs
Actually, it's a million hoagies.
I love when they talk about localization and international game markets! I mostly watch their "Extra History" series but their regional talk about games is also good.
Congrats on a million subs, Extra Credits!
im surprised you didnt mention Xenoblade Chronicles in this at all. it was planned for no localization, never to be seen outside Japan. but people around the world talked about it, and it got localized by Nintendo of Europe. and look at the following it has now. Shulk is in Super Smash Bros, Xenoblade X was localized in under a year, and Xenoblade 2 might have simultaneous worldwide release?
thats the power of localizing an "obscure" or "niche" game. it became one of Nintendos big hits, alongside Metroid or StarFox, but not big enough to match Zelda or Mario.
Yakuza series is a prime example of why you should ALWAYS market the game on the localized markets and not just wait for the fans to hype it. Word of mouth works for a niche game, but only to a certain extent.
The sponsored video thing at the very beginning is a nice touch from either or both you and youtube.
I like the knowledge beforehand, I have less trouble with it if I know it's coming and it's not obtrusive to the video flow.
edit: The debate-y take on this video is pretty good brain ignition and thought fuel. That's most of what I'm around these parts for :)
1 MILLION SUBS :O
CONGRATS!!!
Dai Gyakuten Saiban comes to mind, especially with the 2nd game coming soon.
God bless you for mentioning that.
This! *Cries in No Localization*
everyone cries in no localisation.....well the ones who give a fuck at least.
Love your pfp btw
Thanks!
ur welcome
1:12 every other company is just talking to only 1 big name character but Nintendo is just like, "I got your whole childhood here for only $300"
1 Million subs!!! love you guys
I cite Dragon Quest Heroes as an example of how localization can help a game financially. It sold 0.34 million in the US and Europe and 0.38 million in Japan. This game almost doubled its sales from localization and turned me into a Dragon Quest fan, leading to me buying lots of other games in the franchise.
Case in point: the game Metal Wolf Chaos. It's a game made in Japan in 2004 that is arguably the most 'Murican game ever created. Period. Even more badass, American, and patriotic than the game America's Army developed by the U.S. Army. The only thing more American than this Japanese game is a bald eagle piloting a star-spangled monster truck-headed mecha playing The Star-Spangled Banner on a massive electric guitar while Captain America is in the passenger seat with a machine gun in one hand and a cheeseburger in the other. It is pure, concentrated American patriotism in game form. The voice acting is even in English. And yet, in pure irony, this game didn't get a release in the United States and never will. The game's too damn American for America.
If I recall correctly, the developer refused to sell rights for an English-language version because they were afraid Americans wouldn't take well to a game that depicts the United States in a hammy, jokey manner. That is a cultural issue on the Japanese side, really. In Japan, and in most of the other east Asian countries for that matter, it's a taboo to make fun of the government, insult it, or parody it. (This is why the Emperor of Japan is never depicted in Japanese fiction: It is forbidden to do so at the cultural level.) The developers didn't understand that not only is there no such taboo in the United States, this country's culture actively encourages people to poke fun at their political leaders.
This principle is why Asians who immigrate to a western country rarely register to vote, or if they do, rarely actually vote: They don't really understand the concept of democracy, as they grew up used to doing what their superiors told them to do without question and to never even think of defying them. To have actual say in what their political leaders will do or who will get elected is either mind-blowing or downright incomprehensible. (This is particularly so with people from countries that have had totalitarian regimes like Cambodia and China, and from countries with cultures based on orderliness like Thailand and Singapore.)
Would it be hard to make an overlay system that does not require reprogramming the entire game for translations ? If done right that could allow fans to translate the games themselves.
Wooper is our lord and savior The hardest part would be graphics, animations and other features that require special attention. Other than that, the hard part would be doing the actual translation.
Wooper is our lord and savior That would overcomplicate everything as the overlay would have to detect state changes on the screen. The easier thing to do is just go to the game files, and rewrite the text to become English. Most modern games should not encounter problems from the older generations of gaming such as lack of memory to hold the longer text (1 kana is 2 roman letters, 1 kanji is more roman letters).
You know, most game engines today has editors that allow you to modify game files without needing you to dig through the code. This ain't the pre-2000s.
Holy crap, I did not know your almost at 1 mil subs! Congrats on that guys!
As for the topic itself, there is a number of games that I would have LOVED to play or even imported if I knew the language. Instead I have just wait and hope some of the things are translated by fan (If ever) and then try it, or import it and learn the language.
My best example is PSO2. PSO episode 1 and 2 was my childhood, I would have dropped major money on the game is the sequal had ever released in the US, yet instead of that it was stuck in limbo do to some laws on gambling minigames in the game and was never released because they did not want to remove even such a small part of it. Now it had fans translating the game and making mods to play the entire game in English but every time the game launches a new patch we have to wait for the translaters and hope we don't get banned because we are using english instead of the native languages it supports.
Congrats on 1,000,000 subs
Steam needs to get their quality control sorted. Seriously.
They're trying but the new system seems like it'll be far, far worse. The one bright side is that they're going to change how trading card monetizaton works which will basiclaly make asset flips unprofitable. However, they're pushing everything else onto the users for unpaid labor via user curation and PR. Judging how user tags and duration already work on steam, this means narrative focused and even queer games in general won't be allowed to exist on the platform due to brigading. And anything that gets downvoted/flagged enough will be put into a greenlight style purgatory that it'll be hard to get out of. The new system will also turn unofficial gatekeepers for Steam like Total Biscuit, Nerd Cubed, and Jim Sterling into official ones.
Just sharing a bit of story here. I'm a fan of the Super Robot Wars games. And I bought pretty much all consoles that series appears on, so this video is pretty much spot on. HELL, I bought the game for the ps3 before even buying the console! Sure, the game was in Japanese, but guess what? I learned Japanese just TO. PLAY. THE .DAMN GAME.
Another example, the Fate series latest console game, Fate/Extella. It's for the ps4 and I don't have the console (yet) but I got the noble phantasm edition just because I love the damn series. I play Fate/Grand Order(a mobile title) in Japanese as well. Niche players WILL follow their genre/series to the end of the world if it must be, so it is VERY worthy investing in that.
And since you mentioned From Software, GOD DAMN IT, TALK ABOUT ARMORED CORE FOR MECHAS SAKE! AND WHILE YOU'RE AT IT TALK ABOUT ANOTHER CENTURY'S EPISODE! THOSE TWO SERIES ARE THE BEST ACTION MECHA GAME IN EXISTENCE!
Anderson Zerloti Here's hoping we get an AC announcement this upcoming E3.
A fellow SRW fan! Similar sort of story for me really. Despite not knowing Japanese I still imported the games and purposely bought a PS3 for 2nd OG. I think what Banpresto/Bandai Namco have done regarding the recent SRW V has been good in terms of localization since even though you'll still have to import, adding english subs means we don't have to worry about any potential alteration to the content if it did happen to localized.
I did not expect to be persuaded, but you make some great points!
congratulations for reaching 1 000 000 subscribers
Localise... yes... BUT HOW!?
"we need to localise this game.. lets butcher the voice acting, change the script, remove this, this and this part, add the original voice actors only after you have beaten the game, make the OST unobtainable because who gives a crap about music and make a huge error in in our subtitle routine PS OUR GAME ONLY RUNS ON 30FPS"
Atlus seems to have a pretty good rhythm going.
bakasheru yeah, you are not wrong. But I will be damed if my jrpgs weren't localized to English.
How hard is it to only translate?
"we should change this... NO!"
"we should add this because our western... NO!!!!!"
"native voice acting is a 100% reason why our target audience will buy this game... NOOOOOOO!!!"
"we should cut all these features because we are afraid to be portrayed as a bunch of weirdos, THEN DON'T OBTAIN THE LICENSE YOU WEIRDOS!"
there is a small bit of problem, due to cultural differences and different mind sets there are things that need to be censored in certain countries, for example anything to do with hitler for germany, a young girl in skimpy clothing for a good number of the world, and a severed head or stuff like that for places like japan and australia
but then there is stuff like the treehouse who has a bad reputation of over excessive censoring
There are a lot of games that don't have voice work (indie games come to mind, but there are others)
There are a lot of games that don't need scripts to be changed (fantasy games, where the culture is made up)
There are games that don't cut content due to localization (puzzle, tactics, usually fps)
Those next two arguments seem very personal, so I will tiptoe around them.
See the first 2 counter-arguments about subtitles.
I don't see how localizing a game makes it run slower. Maybe the game was that bad everywhere.
FPS/Dating Sim? I'll still try it, as long as I can get it at a decent price.
YES ! YES ! Finally someone adresses this ! And everything you said is spot on.
Rabid fan (such as I) know about the games that come out in different regions, and we WILL be vocal about them before and after buying them. I know I did for a few games, and I "converted" people into buying a console to play them.
These business episodes are great, but I really like the episodes on good game design, and how to design good games, so please keep those coming :)
"Those kinds of games are what gets people to buy a console"
*stares at bloodborne*
The use of the word "Localize" over "Translate" make me wary. "Localization" makes me think of things like jelly donuts or "Eat your hamburgers, Apollo." Localization always has a tendency to forsake the meaning of what's being said in order to push what the person localizing the game might think is funny or popular at the time. There's always the threat of running into a Fire Emblem "raarrgh means I love you in dragon" situation, which is mildly cringe-inducing at best and completely missing the target of the conversation at worst.
Another issue is how much the team localizing the game cares about the project. Take Super Robot Wars, my absolute favorite franchise that I am 110% a ravenous fanboy for. Recently, the SRW series has started to get English translations in the SEA region. This is good. I want more SRW. The problem is that the team doing the translation didn't even seem to know English at ALL, so you get a weird, almost unintelligible translation worse than Professor Daravon in Final Fantasy Tactics. Things like "What a Damn itty operator" and "Tch, that damn mashed sweetened chestnut fella... he's quite tenacious isn't it!"
Basically what I'm trying to say is that as one of those ravenous fans clamoring for a new thing from that niche genre I like, I would much rather have a GOOD translation or nothing at all. The worst thing you can do is translate it in a way that does a complete disservice to the material.
I liked because you referenced that Ace Attorney comic
Localization can be a horror or can be pretty great when done by companies who care like Xseed or Atlus. What you really wanna avoid is americanization Recently, persona 5 was attacked by kotaku idiots for not americanizing its Shogi references and used it as example of bad localization, which shows that a lot of people have the wrong notion of localization being equal to americanization.
Direct Translation has just as many pitfalls though. You can end up with clunky phrases that don't really make sense or have a jilted feeling to them which can break a player's immersion and pull them out of the game. Also, generally speaking the type of localization that you're describing rarely happens anymore. What you call a "good translation" probably *IS* a localization.
The complaints about the shogi question was stupid, but to be fair, the Persona 5 localization does have some issues. There are some places that have pretty much the same syntax as the original Japanese lines and they look like they were just put through Google translate. If you don't actually make the text flow as naturally as it would for a native speaker, you aren't really being faithful to the original creative intent of the work.
But to the original point, there is definitely a difference between a good localization and a bad one, but localization is always better than a translation. The example of "jelly doughnuts" is not really an example of localization, because people in English-speaking countries know what rice is. That was a stupid decision by the translation/localization team (or perhaps a producer or director). The purpose of localization *is* to preserve the original intent of a work by making it accessible to your target audience. A translation is what you get when you put something into Google translate, which is generally not acceptable in any video game.
rasu Localizing a game isn't just that. It really means to not only translate the game into a different language, but to translate some of the references and culture into a form more understandable locally with the intent of making it available and *accessible* locally, for better or for worse. This is important since a lot of things such as jokes and cultural references can't be translated easily, nor can they readily be understood by the majority of the new player base.
Localisation is a difficult thing to balance, but I think it's important to understand that just because you understand that "naruhodo" means "I see" in Japanese doesn't mean everyone else would. And good luck trying to translate that pun into English.
congrats on 1,000,000!
Congrats on 1 million subscribers Extra Credits! (but I can't believe I missed the milestone goal >:|)
So much hate for localization here but the thing is localization is necessary. Jokes that make sense in Japanese don't always translate well into English, like a Japanese play on words that makes no sense when translated verbatim. It's like how English has plenty of homophones and words spelled the same but with different meaning, where those same words wouldn't translate right into kanji as the joke it is. Not to mention direct translations can come off as really awkward and cringy.
For example Persona 5 has many examples of "Oh no I can't read it it's in English!"...you mean the language you're speaking in right now? It's even more awkward in the online forum where someone posts "What's going on, I don't know any English!"...Then how the hell did you type that comment? You might be able to get away with "Well it's okay for him to SAY he doesn't understand English because truly he's speaking Japanese but we hear the dub." but there is 0 excuse for the online forum bit.
MegaUltraSonic Imagine a character saying "I'm sorry to shave beard!" out of the blue.
Unfortunately, people have been burned by a lot of bad localizations and questionable translation practices, which are a widespread enough problem that they'd rather turn their back on localization entirely than buy poorly localized games. And there is some merit to that, in all honesty. If a company does a hack job of a localization, and fans buy the game anyway, that tells the company that they don't need to put in any real effort because fans will eat up whatever dogshit you throw at them.
The problem is when people refuse to give localizations a chance at all. There are some localization companies that put a lot of love and care into what they do, and even some companies that have earned a bad reputation can occasionally put out something good. And there are also companies that, while not perfect, don't deserve as much vitriol as localization purists would give them. Take Treehouse for example. Yeah, they didn't do a great job with Fire Emblem, and I'm not always thrilled with how they handle Pokemon, but they're leagues better than a lot of other companies out there, and I can even say I'm genuinely pleased with some of the other games they've worked on. While we as fans can and should always voice our criticisms towards companies we're displeased with, complete refusal to support a less-than perfect company is an extreme reaction that does more harm than good in the big picture.
The Paper Mario games are some of the greatest localization jobs in existence. Nate Bihldorff's approach to the series is the reason why the first three Paper Mario games were much more successful overseas than in Japan and why he is the most valued person in NOA Treehouse.
Bleh... I hate the arguments the term 'Localization' breads. Some people act as if the slightest change is desecration to the original work. Why does it matter if a characters name is changed or different terms are used for things?
But I very much agree with Extra Credits on this one! It would be awesome if all games were localized to all regions! JRPGs are my jam and there are some really interesting looking ones that never make it to the US. :(
ballroomscott Can’t be worse than Europe, they have less JRPGs. Also I’m no JRPG gamer or European.
you guys are close to 1M!
Even as a speaker of one of the world's top languages, I still think about what's behind the language barrier. I can't imagine what it's like to speak an obscure language.
fucking idolmaster.
So you're saying that localizing and releasing a game in more places is more profitable overall?
Well, yeah. I'm surprised that publishers and console manufacturers haven't figured that out already. Nice video, though.
Also, I like how that one developer at 1:36 had sweat on the outside of her hijab somehow.
Its questionably more profitable overall. Dan and James aren't complete business people, and Dan even admitted he was on rather shaky ground with one of his assumptions. While he assumes that it may drive sales, businesses keep track of the games they localise, and note how sales of those games go, and how it influences other sales. In some cases, they become wildly successful - see Dragon Quest, or Fire Emblem. In other cases, they dont sell enough copies for the opportunity cost to be worth it - an important business concept as, yes, maybe it'll make them $1 million more, but if they could invest that same money in a project that'll earn them $10 million more, why would they lose out on $9 million?
It also ignores tricky localisation laws, and the gamble with profitability that would be present in this case. Say you have a platform with 7000 titles over its lifetime. Sure, the cost of localising one game might be almost inconsequential. The cost of localising 7000? That's a fortune. And you're gambling with every single one of those games. Sure, maybe 1% will really catch on, but 99% might only sell a handful of copies, not enough to justify their localisation, and you have to consider whether the income from the 1% that do make a profit is enough to justify localising the other 99% as well. Naturally numbers pulled from thin air, but I wouldn't doubt that the majority of localised titles wouldn't be profitable.
It could be an interesting selling point for the console as a whole, but the opportunity cost of it compared to other options, as well as the tricky legal situation, and gamble with profitability on this scale... It isn't too hard to see why businesses don't do it. This is without considering the diseconomies of scale; the loss of efficiency from trying to localise too many games at once, and filling up your storefront with them, that makes it more expensive to do per unit than just localising a few at a time, and reduces your income as well. Its getting more feasible to do, but I'd think we aren't there quite yet, sadly.
Huh. Interesting. You seem to know a lot about this.
Eh, they're mostly standard business theory being applied to this case. I don't know enough about Sony, MS or Nintendo's business specifics to know if they could do it - and I doubt anyone but those companies has that info - and without proper market research into how many localised games would sell how well, and how important a selling point for many consumers localisation is, its hard to say that it definitely wouldn't be profitable. I'm simply throwing out the reasons why I think MS, Sony or Nintendo hasn't done something like it yet, and may not for a while longer.
If a company does go for it though, it'll probably be either Nintendo or Sony. Japanese games are seeing a huge surge in popularity again ATM, and are the majority of games that people talk about when they say they want them localised. Sony and Nintendo have a closer relationship with the Japanese game companies, being Japanese companies themselves, which would help with getting deals on the games many want localised moving forward, while MS would have to do a bit more work and bring on a set of games that is rather different from what they've seemingly tried to center the Xbox brand around.
It'd definitely be nice to have all games localised though. One day it'll probably be a reality, but probably not today. Until it does, we'll just have to keep petitioning for localisation. Get enough people to go for it, like PC Dark Souls, and it'll seem profitable for a company to do, and we might just see some games localised that otherwise wouldn't be. Or we might not. We just have to hope.
To be fair just because big businesses do things one way doesn't always mean it's indeed the most profitable way to do it (hence Life is Strange ending up with Squeenix, Cooper single-handedly moving the *entire* F1 grid to MR, etc).
Though yeah, we don't really know all the data about the console business.
Congrats on 1 million subs
I smile when Dan says heck these days, and start looking for a snek.
Well... So far, the Nintendo Switch has been localizing every single game in the eShop... and since the console is region free, and thanks to THE POWER OF THE INTERNET (Echoed voice here) it's easier than ever to play Japan exclusives or Europe exclusives, even if an American version will come out two weeks after (impatient gamers are ALWAYS impatient)
AzraelXG I'm pretty sure there are minor games that haven't come out of Japan, as well as games Japan doesn't have like Shovel Knight.
It's a matter of time on both sides, and with the Switch you can have accounts for every region on the same console, soy you can simply swap your account and Presto! Again, use THE POWER OF THE INTERNET (Epic Echoed Voice) and it's all set :)
In previous systems, not only by Nintendo, you have to do more stuff in order to play games not aviable in your country (changing the language, Zone, pray for the Gods the trick works or even hack the console.... Way too much trouble)
+Fernando Banda Shovel Knight has a Japanese release.
hardpotatoes2 On the Switch? Is this wrong then? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_Switch_games
*cough* Monster Hunter XX *cough*
Sum up this video: what console should I get? PlayStation! Why? BECAUSE BLOODBORNE! Now imagine it with other niche not yet translated games
I remember years ago when Nintendo had no plans to release Animal Crossing on the Gamecube in Europe, even though it got an Australian release which was also PAL. Eventually, after enough petitioning and complaining it was released in Europe a few years after the rest of the world, but it's now one of their most popular franchises here.
That's really chill ending credits music.
"Steam situation" is real. Some while ago I stopped using the store to find new games. So much dissapointment finding rubbish games, very crowded store >_
Nothing is said in this vid about the utterly revolting amount of censorship japanese games have to expect when being lauched in the U.S.. That's one hugely underestimated problem.
you don't want my name I can't like this comment enough. This is why nothing should be localized, instead, everything should be translated.
better than not getting it at all.
Fire emblem fates anyone
Japan has much, much worse censorship laws. There are countless western games that were censored.
Japan Censors nudity, the West doesn't.
Unbelievable!!! You guys just can't stop making this industry and our world a better place?
Congrats on the one million sub mark
I just wish "Localization" hadn't become a dirty word. If it were up to me, it would be straight translation. Sure, you can reword things and have the dialogue flow as a natural speaker, but straight-up changing characters to become more "region friendly" turns me off a game so quick.
Looking at you Fire Emblem "Rawr means I love in you dragon" Fates. Hopefully 8-4 does a much better job with Echoes.
The word Localize should be localised to Localise for British English
Oi see wot you did there.
Are you talking about Xenoblade?
Dont mind me im just another random person with a really long username I just call it English since it's spoken in England.
Dont mind me im just another random person with a really long username, that'd be nice, but I don't expect every one in the world to be aware of the differences between two regional variations on a single language. Most of my family don't know in the Malayu are taught American English, and come into trouble understanding why the language is different in Singapore.
Or, you know, Brits could learn how to speak properly (finally).
omg the illustration at 5:34 makes my life
Being an app developer this applies so much because any app can be downloaded anywhere
Depends. If I translate my german game to english, the target demographic increases from less than 100 million to over 1 billion (counting not just english-speaking countries but also the many people who can speak english all over the world). That's a no-brainer. Translating an already english game to bulgarian would increase the target demographic by less than one percent, maybe a lot less (many younger bulgarians speak good english and would be perfectly fine with the english version).
If only Persona 5 get PC release (maybe Steam) ...
Naufal FR It's been a Sony exclusive forever, doubt that would ever change
P5 might get a switch or vita version in the future, not pc.
MegaUltraSonic Now it's only a matter of time before they go MHP3rd on the Persona franchise :DD
MegaUltraSonic, it did get that Persona Q game on the 3DS, and it's not like Sega is at all adverse to Nintendo machines. It's a Persona game on Xbox that'd surprise me, but it's possible. Has there ever been a MegaTen game for Xbox? I'm not sure, but I don't think so.
Dreikoo, who knows. Sega has tried to be more PC friendly in these past few years.
oh my god that cute little game at 3:33 getting shoved into a category, then LITERALLY taking off, it looks so surprised and unable to process what is happening to it
This channel is very inspiring.
Wow, no. Not even close. The spanish and italian markets have tried that (bringing niche things, hoping word of mouth keeps them afloat without marketing) before: things just don't sell, because the rabid niche fans are also so used to importing and pirating things that they can not play that even the basic cost of localisation often doesn't get covered. And the major consoles already have established fanbases for very specific mainstream platform exclusives and will not risk taking the cost hit.
I would like uncensored Japanese games
YOU HIT 1 MILLION!!!!
You've almost hit 1m subs!
I'm still surprised that the Nintendo switch sold well, when it barely has any games.
Kabloosh nintendo consoles almost always sell well at the begining
Yeah, but most of the consoles that sell well tend to have more games already made for the console. The switch only had 4 when it came out.
the n64 only had 2 and look how that came out
People play it on the train or some shit despite there being no games on the switch that you would play in small spurts.
It probably is a result of the strength of Nintendo IP's
Get PC. PC is best console. PC is favorite console.
Most people are more concerned with convenience than anything, and setting up and maintaining a gaming rig is anything but convenient.
Master Yi From Dota must say, love the name
Gunter are you saying that maintaining a pc is easier than just owning a console that you never have to do anything with?
I enjoy the conversation that came from such a simple comment.
Concerning PC, it is not as simple to game with as a console, but with how many people online are willing to help you get started, it is easier than ever.
Gunter So sad to see how pathetic the PC fanbase is, honestly makes me want to go back playing on consoles again.
Great episode. I hope this push for change works.
That is why we should respect so much fan translation work
I get why people need the localization. But god, is it awful most of the time. Context is lost, jokes are butchered. In almost all cases the original sound and text is superior.
Sure, but a bad version of something great can still be really good and it's better than nothig. I am not going to lear japanese to play the Trails games.
Just translating the text, and doing nothing else is the best Localization IMO.
CaitSeith Not at all, localization is changing a translation of something to better fit a country.
At its best, it can make speech flow better, make jokes that were directly translated and butchered actually make sense by phrasing it differently, and change obscure references from other cultures into just as fitting ones for the country it is being localized for.
At its worst, it can completely change the text so it bares no resemblance to the original, lose features the original version had (meaning the localized version is worth less than the original but still costs the same), and be used as a platform to spread a localization team's ideals which weren't present at all in the original game (Literally any Fire Emblem game released on the 3DS).
Just directly translating something isn't localization, as a directly translated sentence in some cases makes just as little sense as trying to read a sentence in the original language. Localization is actually changing that sentence to make sense, but nowadays, developers often like to completely disregard the original direct translation and make shit up and pass it off as localization.
So yes, it is necessary, but because it is necessary companies take advantage of it.
The fan translation of MOTHER 3 says hi.
Just a friendly reminder that translating idioms isn't a 1 to 1 practice.
For example, in Spanish, you ask "how many years do you have?" not "How old are you?"
Direct translation would leave English speakers thinking, "This is weirdly phrased... Bad translation!"
But a good translation will change the dialogue to fit the idioms of the region.
Then you have things where translation will still fail, but will be mostly unnoticeable to outside regions. Ryuji's manner of speech in English just sounds like a fairly loud kid, not necessarily rude nor crude by western standards, but everyone else comments on his informal speech a lot. In Japanese there are ways to speak informally that are rarely heard outside of conversations with close friends. In the West, almost all of our speech is informal, so it doesn't translate well, but I wouldn't have even thought about it until my Japanese friend was talking to me about how they "butchered" Ryuji's speech.
And of course, there are other things about localization that have to be changed simply because of cultural differences.
On the whole, however, there have been, historically, a lot of needless changes in localization because they are afraid of some weird dissonance in the game or because they don't think kids will "get it". The odd, jarring moments in Persona where the characters who are speaking English talk about how bad they are at English, and you're forced to remember that they're supposed to be speaking Japanese. (Though I prefer that level of honesty in a translation/localization to changing it completely). Or, the infamous Pokemon Donut.
I'll need to rewatch.
almost at 1M! kepp going!
0:01 That picture is super clever :D