18 WAYS A COVERT NARCISSIST CAN PERPETUATE FRUSTRATION
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- čas přidán 1. 07. 2024
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In many ways covert narcissists can be more wily than overt narcissists as they try to control you. So to maintain your emotional composure, awareness of their patterns is crucial. Psychotherapist Dr. Les Carter speaks directly into the question: "How can I remain steady even as the covert narcissist comes at me with all sorts of frustrating patterns?"
Dr. Les Carter is a best selling author and therapist who lives in Dallas, Tx. In his 39 years of experience he has conducted many workshops and over 60,000 counseling sessions.
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sometimes I scroll through comments and read all those horrible stories from people who had the same problem and it gives somehow comfort to know that I m not alone. Free yourself from those toxic persons, they will never change
Yes I do that too! 😀👍 Learning so much from it!
Honestly the silent treatment/withdrawal is such a relief because then you can just pretend you don't notice which they don't like and eventually they get over it. At least when they're silent you don't have to deal with the dialogue.
maybe for you... i hated the ignore fases.. i ask what because we share a kid... and she ignored me.. gif me the feeling i never meant shit...
If you don't respond to their silent treatment they will find any reason to keep following you around inside or outside the house while acting like you don't exist and keep giveing the silent treatment !! So obvious ! Or the famous just get in the car and leave without talking to you and them hopeing you call so they can give you some more ugly attitude like you bothering them and show you how you don't deserve them to speak to you ! It goes on until you give them the attention so they can provoke an out and out war,Then they expect you to shower them with love ! I have never understood how someone that is a decent person would put up with this or feel loved by this kind of person ! But if you watch the brain washing over the you see the decent person lose their own identity ! So sad
Amen !
@@flowthgin18 shits horrible bro. What a nightmare man I feel you
@@flowthgin18
I learned:
Don’t defend
Don’t engage
Don’t explain
Don’t personalize
You feeling that you never meant sh*t to her is her goal. I learned that the silent treatment is simply the way they process, so I enjoy the silence and take advantage. Read a book. It’s quiet, you’ll probably have a couple days…frigging enjoy it! Realizing it’s not about you and all about them is so freeing😊
But your word choice tells me you’re probably out of the relationship already, so good for you !! ❤
NO remorse. Apologies are rare and given very begrudgingly
He NEVER says he's sorry. I have to take up the load just to make nice with him. It's a lot of responsibility I take on for him and that one is one of them.
Always!! "I'm sorry I attract weak men" or "I'm sorry I'm mad" Vs "I'm sorry for what I did". It's despicable, they expect remorse but can't give it. Or they shakingly put on the "sweet" voice in order to get something. What a nightmare.
You have to be able to actually recognize that you made a mistake…
to give a real apology
In one of our last encounters, it took her 20 minutes of dialogue and me walking away repeatedly that she finally squeaked out a “fine, I’m sorry”.
Disconnected, so true. They are hollow shells.
Not interested in your life past enticing you in their lives . Giant babies. But turn into overt narc when confronted without possibility of escape...They blame, blame n blame.
Its like living with air.
loveisallthereis 11:11 no not babies. Babies are happy, loving, snuggly and display genuine emotions. Lol ✌🏻
@@Herekittykitty01 you
Yeah, after doing things that hurt me again and again...he blames me for the choices he made. And it's making me feel hurt a hundred times more.
Nailed it!!
I was so frustrated my entire 23 year marriage. I had no idea what it was I was actually experiencing. It's painful to look back and see these things
Painful and infuriating.
Exactly! Knowledge is worth everything but also a two edged sword.
Keeping their distance from you, being aloof, cynical, always felt tense with them. Difficult to talk to about anything as if hiding something, being resentful, guilting you, holding grudges, don't have much in common with others, disruptive, interruptive, talks over you, and talks down to others.
Christine Haigh - So You Know my daughter then ?!! You're describing her Exactly.
Apologies!??! I think the best from my narc was " I'm sorry that you're so sensitive."
Or “I’m sorry, take me back” so I can abuse you more next
James Brown that sucks and all too common.
Can't even remember what he said the other day(because the dysfunction is fast and furious now it seems) ,but he said something outrageous and I questioned that he thought it was appropriate..he looked at me and said"What do want me to say, I'm sorry?" And shrugged....
Shalliw, low empathy people...I'm over it after 3 decades.
Susie Williams Susie, pack your bags and let him know quietly “I’m leaving” and when he questions you, say nothing, then later text him “what do you want me to say? I’m sorry?” Hahaha oh once you realize they are just demons fcking with you, you too will have so much fun with them, they’re not real people, they’re just animatronics, they call them robotoids
Wow
The reason you have to drop any expectation of a sense of intimacy is because they lack empathy. Intimacy is based upon vulnerability and being vulnerable with one-another. What for you is an an effort to enter into intimacy, is for them, an opportunity to harm you.
Spot on. Dr. C
Hi Kevin....yes I thought by being truthful and honest and kind is the way to go....a Chance to get closer and connect. .they will see it as a thrill to hurt you and they know exactly what buttons to press. ...to them Kindness is a weakness...I know what you mean. .and feel...stay strong ...oh....yyes I also think vulnerability is an emotion too complicated for disordered individuals to feel... So like you mentioned it takes vulnerability for intimacy to exist...so...i guess they don't feel vulnerability??? I am not sure if I make sense?
They like "seduction" and the "thrill of the chase," but NEVER would be truly "intimate"(on a heart to heart level). I'm beginning to think that they don't HAVE hearts...and that's sad.
@@valeriegriner5644 hi Valerie...it is quite exhausting...to keep them "involved" ...they would very much prefer to be where they would be adored and respected...but tell tale sign is watch how they "treat" children...they don't like kids at all even their own....sigh...so I have hard time coming to terms with this...I do agree with you..they may not have hearts at all!!!!
Kevin Hornbuckle
What you described, happened to me again last night. It never fails. Incompetent, heartless, soulless. monsters.
No more will I be in such need, caused by him, only to be rejected and subjected to more mistreatment and pain. I have had far more than enough.
I'm leaving.
I still have these dark depressed PTSD episodes once in a while after a covert narcissistic abuse.. I am 4 years no contact .. its crazy how much these monsters suck the life out of us empathic ones.
Yep., agreed
It's been almost 30 years for me and I started a good life and I still have PTSD.
Poor baby... a lot of us know your pain.
absolutely true, I'm still going through it x
Ageeed. So true.
Missy Gray You’re so right. I’m 3 years NC and just started to come out of deep freeze and actually feel like an independent person.
I feel afraid to get emotionally involved with any other human being before I have a strong hold on how to spot these people right away.
👌
I think its hard since they play a lot of theatre. A good test is saying “no” and setting boundaries. See how they react. If they dont respect it or even get angry or start to blame you. Run for your life. Other way is to just trust the person in the beginning but just to take time to get to know them. Give them 6 months with ONLY dates outside. No going home to them or inviting them. They cant keep the mask for six months. Monitor your gut feeling and how its feels in your body. If it feels bad, just leave. Forget about the money and the grandiose gestures. Emotional sequrity is more important.
I am prepared walk away if l don't like it is better...
I found that they actually CAN keep the mask on far past 6 months. Up until they get what they want, in my case 2 yrs. & marriage.
M Dee Oh? But didnt you notice any signs? What did he want (sorry for being nosy) ? Mine wanted company and smbd to show off to his friends and family. Huge mistake, wasted 4 years on nothing, dont go into that trap.
This is so very sad to live this way😢 its like living in hell inside 😢 You miss out on so much love and fun.
Yes but Paranoia, Anger and Hatred are so much more satisfying to them 😏
@@holographicc6974 I feel the same way.
@@holographicc6974 Yes it is.
I’m a covert narcissist and yeah u don’t want to be this. It’s like living with a crippling depression
You really do.
By the end of a circular argument where they've been proven irrefutably in the wrong and an apology is due, they will say "I already apologized ( when they have not)... I apologized. What else do you want from me?"
Ugh. Time to go take a walk. Dr. C
Yeah. Circular arguments. With my own every word-twisting child. Playing misinterpretation for hours. Makes you going mad with a teen. If ever, you get some lame "I'm sorry" to get you on track and forgiving again but its never a genuine apology. Always shallow.
brooding silences....waiting for an apology you don't owe to them...??
Yep
Yep.
It took me 50 years to realize the damage my mother had done to me. When you find out, it's crushing.
Yes, Davina, it is; I have recently gone through the same thing with my elderly father and it has been a devastating time; we will get through it though; we have the truth now; take care!
Yes be of good courage.
Crushing is a great word for it.
I discovered it at about the age of 25 am now 29. it makes so much sense now, too much to explain. my mother now moved into the town that I purchased a house in to get peace and distance, im going to be getting a restraining order against her!
Davina, same here. 50+ yrs. Covert malignant narc mother here...,she caused astounding devastation to our family. For so many yrs i didnt get why, why, why...only in the last 2 yrs have i discovered the whole narc abuse syndrome. I wish i had gone no contact at birth, bitter lol...i have lost so much of my life, and myself, to her abuse. Not much time left for me but im no contact now, doing my part, staying in my lane, loving God and trusting Him to " redeem the yrs the locust has eaten". No contact! Its a beautiful lifesaver.
Amazingly, my husband has all 18 of these traits. It took me awhile to realize how hopeless this is.
Covert narcissists are the worst! Thank you so much for doing these videos! I need the validation and positive affirmation, reminding me that I am not crazy.
My only comment about holding a grudge-there is a difference between a narcissist holding a grudge and someone protecting their heart from continuous abuse. A person who is the recipient of the narcissist has no obligation to open their arms and accept their behavior. It's not a grudge it's just being smart and wise to not allow your soul to be fragmented and destroyed by an abuser. A merciful and forgiving person can end up torn up inside because they feel a need to not hold a grudge. Grudge's no, protection yes. Proverbs 4:23 Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it.
Protecting your heart reflects wisdom and discernment. Dr. C
So very true. I have survived a nark for 40 years also and have once a week contact which is difficult. Yes guard your heart. I am a Christian also
Thank You Debra Wilson for that verse and that truth. Thank you!
@@SurvivingNarcissism In becoming a "gray rock" to protect myself, I have been accused of being selfish, cold, insensitive... they would look at these traits of narcissism and say that is who I have become. I do it not out of some dark pleasure, but to survive emotionally. It keeps me from falling into the dark abyss of no return. My life is not my own anymore and with this pandemic even less so. It has given them an excuse to be more vigilant in monitoring me and controlling me. I am really struggling now.
@@kathyjohnston-keane2623 Your world is not their world but the narcissist wants you to assimilate into their world of chaos and darkness. Their struggle is to lure one into their traps so you become an object of their control and blame. This is why they get heavy handed with their accusations and escalate their manipulations when it is not working for them. They will accuse a person of being cold but in reality their silent treatment is cold, callous and calculated. in their cycle of abuse. This is not being cold to them but a justification of punishment to show they are not the evil character but their scapegoat is. They become masters at mind games due to how one reacts and responds, this tips them off to customize their attacks. This enables them to further control and dominate your emotional well being. Do not relinquish your identity, joy, stability and health into anyone's hands. Be strong and know you have great worth and value.
Absolutely spot on. Unfortunately, it’s often late in the game when one recognizes they’ve been dealing with a manipulator and a lot of damage has been done. The most important thing I’ve learned through this painful journey is that it was exactly what I needed to really find myself. I don’t discount the pain, but accepting life on its terms (both good and bad) instead of my own has brought me so much more peace.
Yes, totally agree. Took me a decade to realise. Got completely crushed just at a time when I needed a friendly supporter only to discover I had put too much store by a toxic person and they chose that time to give me the silent treatment big time. Fortunately, I'm fairly philosophical. It was painful though.
My narc relationship would say I was doing all these things. Just recently I must have offended in some way and she withdrew. I know the signs and flags. I diagnosed my codependent relationship with her 6 years ago. If I ever tried to "show " her she was withdrawing or withholding love, making me work for it, she would say I was doing that and I wasn't letting her be her. This is my mom. So now when I see the signs or am being punished I just leave her be. She holds each of these 18 traits. It is so hard being in a relationship with her. I have been affirmed and have learned so much more with Dr. Les' videos!!!
brett neuberger well said !
Judy that is absolutely true - a covert will make you feel like you’re going crazy
Unfortunately indeed 😟 after damage lots of damage is done
As the adult child of an overt and a covert narcissist pair, I see that many of these 18 characteristics (lack of interest in others, disdain for groups, superiority, lack of empathy, etc.) were modeled as “normal” behavior in my family. As kids, we were not taught how to socialize in groups or show genuine interest in others. When I brought relationship problems home, my dad would say, “You’re better than they are,” or “They’re just jealous,” rather than helping me gain insight about aspects of my behavior that might have been problematic. My parents openly gossiped and criticized the neighbors, yet pretended to be friendly in social settings. On rare occasions when we did socialize, they modeled how to be “charming,” “entertaining”, “impress others,” and not ask too many questions (as that would be “rude”). My father would actually say, “Don’t talk too much, or you’ll bore people senseless.” Now, as an adult, I’ve struggled to learn social skills, and my discomfort with small talk has caused more than one person to see me as “smug” or “superior,” which is anything but how I feel inside. I have often wondered if I’m mildly Aspergers, trying to memorize a huge expert system rule base on how to read and respond to social cues. I would enjoy hearing you speak about some narcissistic traits being learned, and how narcissistic parents can trigger neurotic children. The only way to get along in our family was to walk on eggshells and do lots of a** kissing! No wonder I’ve attracted so many narcissistic partners and friends. When they meet me, they think I’m wonderful because I mastered the drill decades ago. As soon as the mask slips and reveals my humanity (i.e., I get exhausted playing the game) I’ve somehow betrayed them! Your channel is so helpful. The puzzle pieces are finally coming together.
We are loved when we are letting them walk all over us. The very second you voice distaste or an opinion different from theirs..... We are the odd man out. We are the one with issues. We are the one that needs meds and or therapy. For years I truly thought I was the sole problem.
@@eclecticacre2593me too. I just figured out a couple weeks ago at 31 that I’m not. I’m sorry you have dealt with this too.
This was my childhood and adulthood too. I've had so many people not want to interact because of my bad social skills (that I didn't know were bad). 😢 I'm just now, in my 40s, recognizing what my mother did to me and the grief is almost completely overwhelming. Especially when I consider she KNOWINGLY did this to me so no one would want me and I'd be forced to depend on her all my life 😢. But it all started falling apart (for her)13 years ago when I moved 800 miles away and started to see (but not fully understand until now) and I started changing. Now I'm the bad guy for becoming my own person.
Indeed. "They love to see you wiggle." What a perfect description of how the covert narcissist thinks. Beware that they will get smug satisfaction out of every twist or turn, every ounce of control or provocation, each positive or negative reaction you afford to their much-needed narcissistic supply. We are merely tools and objects for their use..nothing more. We are simply narcissistic supply. Move on from them. They have never been what you believed them to be.
Like a bug under the magnifying glass in the sun.
Yep. When I was fifteen, there was a family member whom we would go to visit on Christmas Eve. This person would sit over there on his big chair (he loved to look like a king), and he would glare at me for 10-15 minutes at a time. He loved to do this. In his mind, he was playing with a rat. That's what he thought about me, and he liked to see me squirm. He knew he had won when I would avoid his side of the room and hide out by my parents. This same man cheated on his wife many times, and often got into fist fights at bars.
You are amazing! They have NO interest in the other person but can degrade and belittle in a heartbeat. They make presumptions and assumptions that have nothing to do with reality. Trying over and over to explain to them, and get them to hear me is a task that never ends. So, why try? It is NOT about me, and realizing this sure helps me to understand why there is so much drama and chaos!! I need healthier people in my life.
Would I recognize a healthier person if I met them?
chinookvalley I hear ya. Talking to them over and over and over again and nothing ever changes. And they say “well if you’d talk to me the right way....”. Except that no way is ever right. I’ve given up. Now I’m just waiting two years for our daughter to graduate and I’m outta here.
@Hu Ey the only one my husband doesn't meet is #14 because he dishes out plenty of shallow gratitude and apologies. He has also become physically abusive recently and I fear a separation as much as I wish for a separation. Life is hard with these people. I pray for you.
NOT CURIOUS ABOUT ANYTHING. Not my body or my mind or interests. 😢💔 I'm a deep person....I can't believe I was with him for 13 years. Luckily I had God and myself in my mind to talk to!
After 26 years, I'm leaving!! My purpose (job) and my kids have also been my lifeline. Ready to start anew..... 💖
Covert Narcissist:
1. Low attempts to connect [1:28]
2. Hyper-sensitive in emotional responses [2:02]
3. Low sensitivity toward your emotions [2:45]
4. Over-interpret your emotions [3:07]
5. Bored or disinterested [3:49]
6. Chronic sense of judgement [4:21]
7. Uncomfortable in groups [4:59]
8. Quietly blame other people for their flaws [5:37]
9. Apologies feel shallow [6:19]
10. Punishment with silence or withdrawal [6:58]
11. Easy feelings of victimization [7:37]
12. Appearing humble-yet feeling egotistical [8:18]
13. Often feel jealous [8:58]
14. Difficulty saying 'thanks'; expressing gratitude [9:33]
15. Shyness may be a cover for smugness [10:02]
16. Hold grudges-for a long time [10:39]
17. Identifying as a misunderstood unique person [11:03]
18. A lack of curiosity [11:40]
. . .
Coverts prefer their isolation [12:14]
Your pleas drive them deeper into the pattern [12:37]
Drop any expectation for intimacy [13:02]
Seek personal fulfillment elsewhere [13:17]
You take great notes. Thanks for posting this. Dr. C
This is a great reminder & layout of the 18 points. Wish I could copy it & place it in my journal for reminders while I adjust to ending a marriage from a Narcissist.
@@mallorywashington9613 - Screen shoot it from your phone. Hope that helps. Have a blessed day!
#9........apologies.....what apologies?
@@kristineericksen3031 the "im sorry you made me do that to you" kind....
My heart is pounding. For some time, I have thought my mom could be a covert narcissist. I'm at a point in my life where I am figuring some things out about the relationship I have with my mother. (I am 65 and she is 86) I had to stop the video to comment... at number 11, because so far I can think of countless examples of each point you've made. Now, she has dementia, and wouldn't you know it, I'm her caregiver, as well as my dad's. Her narcissism has only gotten worse over the years and sometimes I wonder why I'm the only one who sees it. I have to say this: Back when my mom was employed, she made arrangements to take off from work early one afternoon, so she could take her aunt to her church Christmas party. At the last minute, the boss needed her due to an emergency and didn't let her off. This happened 40 years ago, and she still holds a bitter grudge. Just the other day, she for some reason confessed to me that she kept a notebook after that incident and wrote down every single thing that her boss said or did that she didn't like. She actually made a hate book. I got shivers. I wonder if she has a hate book for me too. Thank you for the down to earth and easy to comprehend information you share in your videos. I have watched many, but I have to tell you that this is the one that has hit home with me and cleared up some doubts I was having. Now to finish watching. ........
Glad it resonated. Mom sounds like a piece of work.
When ever I have one of those days when I start to doubt, and it happens... I watch one of your videos. Always upfront validation... thank you...
Yes, the validation is great. I have to actually physically move out from my living situation, due to a covert Narcissistic person. It's difficult to be at the mercy of other people. I believe my next living situation will be alot better. These people are master manipulators, so be careful everyone!
Leisa Von Ruiz it truly is a process. Once your head stops spinning and you’re able to and then done assessing the damage, it’s time to rebuild and that’s the good part as you’re free and you most certainly can. All the best to you.
As the narcissist in my marriage thank you for these videos. I’m taking steps to change who I am and the person I want to be. All the points you address are great for me to reflect upon and give guidance on my areas of weakness.
Leisa you are so right. I had to leave my living situation as well. I made sure that I had all my ducks in a row before telling the Narc I was moving out. I felt very sneaky doing that way though. But, it seems as though you have to be a little like them just to get away from them.
ME TOO!!!
Thank you! My mother is a covert narcissist and it took me years of therapy to find out that I'm not an worthless and mean spirited person.
they really do a number on your head!! hope you are well :)
100% spot on. They also like to teach people a lesson- eg if they are overtaken while driving and that driver is not fast enough for their liking they will overtake the "offender" and then deliberately slow down in front of them to "teach them a lesson"
I find that more to be true with the overt narcissist
That show you attititude anything you ask they do the opposite
Yeah he did that
So true! I didn’t make that connection until you said that. My ex was always trying to punish or teach people a lesson whenever he felt offended or wronged.
they just dont give a damb about anything but themselves
35 years of being married to a covert narc have ruined ma life. Am finally gathering courage to break free from this cycle of abuse and manipulation
you are so strong 35 years!!/me it's my mother who has that personality it's a nightmare/hope to move away from her .............far but the covid doesn't help
My me too moment
Dr Carter, your videos have delivered me from an abusive and destructive marriage. I thank my Father in heaven for sending people like you and giving you the knowledge to speak on these things in order to free people from bondage. Is there anyway that I can give to your platform without purchasing anything? Just as an offering of thanks?
Yes, you can give by being a beacon of light toward others who have also struggled!!
Dr. C
Exactly very well said and true as can be! What an anointed man, so thankful to have found this channel!!
Me too!
I am sure your kind words were gift enough. He is that kind of wonderful guy.
Jasmin Taylor ABSOLUTE TRUTH!!!!!
When I saw the pattern, when I identified the covert narcissist, the abuse had a 60- year history, including alienating my only son from me over 30 years ago. The covert narcissist is my younger sister. I have loved her like a daughter. (Our mother died when she was 13.)The shock was a 10 out of 10.
My gosh...I am not going crazy, that you so much for doing this video. I have been in a relationship with "this man" for 23 years. I am at a loss for words... :-(
It has been 20 years for me. I'm so glad yt suggested these videos to me. I've been feeling like I'm crazy for so long. He's won over both of our families and anytime I say I want to leave everyone says that "marriage takes work" and "you vowed to stay through good times and bad times". They don't understand the abuse.I wish you peace on your healing journey. This is so hard to go through but you aren't alone.
I have 3 grown Daughters and a large family. Unfortunately no one believes me.
Exactly people ask me what my exes were all about and I have really no idea who these people were
32 years...On day 4 of Silent Treatment 😖
@@MagicalMochii can whole families be narcissistic I wonder.
This is one of the best descriptions of various negative behaviors you will see when interacting with a narcissistic individual.
Thankyou. So very helpful. Your work has made such a difference to me. As a highly sensitive empath I find I have attracted several narcissists into my life. I think of myself as an empowered empath now. I actually enjoy healthy boundaries now. I have such sincere gratitude for your help. Sending positive vibes from Scotland. Thankyou 🙏❤️💜💚
A good friend gave me a book recently, an older book however filled with insight and hope to change the relationships that are not good for us. An empowering book also! It's called Women Who Love Too Much by Robin Norwood. I hope it helps. Peace.
@@viviankirkham1677 Oh, yes...I've read that....very good book!
These characteristics are point on. Some coverts are not as blatant when things don't go there way, but can be "humble" master manipulators and make their victim think they are the one who is always wrong. They use guilt as a master manipulative tool in their victims.
You are making the world a better place. Thanks Doc C!
Drop any expectation of intimacy.😢 It took me so long to figure that one out.
Imagine being a mother and your only child tells you "I dont want to be loved"... 😧😧
♡
Yea me too. Particularly because i had let myself fall in love with her (my ex fiancé). I had a naïve expectation that at some point she would grow to become intimate. Instead she was continually moving the goal posts so I was left in this unbearable emotional vacuum.
If you have even the faintest sense as of today that a dynamic like this might be going on in your relationship, I strongly urge you to dig deeper, and pull on that thread. It is likely the person concerned has at least some degree of narcissism, and it may be much worse than you can currently comprehend. The love you have for them may be making you very blind.
When I finally started to look objectively at my ex's behavior I realized how completely she had duped me using tactics like those discussed in this video. She even had some crazy deep narcissistic traits like weird behavior with young children of a certain age (that totally freaked me out) - not abusive to them but literally terrified by them because they reminded her of the innocent child she was before suffering some event (she never told me exactly what) that left her emotionally scared. Poor soul. I tried with love to help her see it but she just ran away, unable to face the objective reality that she had serious issues from her past to deal with before she could be intimate.
At least I survived, and after about 2-3 years of PTSD I feel I'm fully healed again. God bless you if you have also had this experience or are now trying to deal with it. My warmest love and hope for you, you will get through it and feel the sun again.
I love it when the narcissist goes silent! Mine never shuts his mouth, so the silence is so welcome.
Your videos nail it EVERY TIME. Much gratitude to you, Dr. Carter.
Yeah! Certainly this one ticks all the boxes!
He’s The Authority as far as I see it. Narcs always slide by therapists, not this one, I bet!
Bridget McBride Dr. Carter is the VERY BEST!!!!!!!!
I love Dr. Carter!!!!
except for the silent treatment..that s what i have to do with my SIL ..don t even want to engage with her..too many years of this..Shes the one that doesn t get it and hides behind bible verses
Thank you. I would also add a number 19 which is that they are pathologically cheap.
RIGHT!!
Haha! So true!
So true! I'm all about saving money but my man has to find it on sale or he's gotta find that deal, or it's no good. Heaven forbid you buy the kind of bread you want to eat cause it's not on sale.
They keep score too! So, look out if they think you've gotten more out of the situation then they have.
CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP ON SO MANY LEVELS!!
Bonjour. My husband is a covert narc. For years I thought I was the problem. I wish I would have known these things 25 years ago. Such good work you're doing for so many, Dr. Be blessed.
Just realized that my mom gives me the silent treatment since I was like 6 years old or less. God damn, some people really shouldn't be allowed to have kids.
I struggle with crippling depression and maladaptive daydreaming and I suspect I have PTSD.
I am also scapegoated. This is frustrating, gosh.
I consider it an invaluable part of healing and recovery .... that I simply cannot listen to one more minute of this stuff. It stirs the pot, rips off the scabs and refreshes the terrible wrenching hurts, disappointments and memories. No longer comforted, I leave the end of these videos angry and upset, like it was all just yesterday. That said, you've played an enormous role in my comprehension of exactly what evilness and emptiness lurked in that meat-suit of a man. For that I thank you for your wisdom and devotion of sharing it.
Debbie Blanke,You don't need a narcissist in your life.....
This was so eye opening. After 6 years of going crazy trying to figure out what I’m doing wrong and what I can do better to help him be happy and capable of loving me the way I need in the process of losing myself, I now finally understand there’s absolutely nothing I can do. Thanks for this
Isn’t it terrible to feel so helpless!?!!
Yep sigh deep breath now smile deep in your soul you are free ❤
You have described my father in law. If I don't act excited to see him every time he comes over, he gets offended. Then he claims that I don't like him or I don't want him to come over. No matter what anybody says, you must mean something negative.
Your comments on the covert is so spot on. It really helps me realize I am not crazy.
Thank you for this video! I know someone like this. The person is beyond frustrasting and I realize keeping my distance is the best thing. It's like talking to a robot. You never get a real response about any subject.
When he describes it and it almost sounds like a person who is slow
Bingo! I knew my ex boyfriend was a narcissist, but there were so many covert traits it was hard to define until now. Coming off as a strong silent type, super sensitive to things say that were not intended the way they were taken, etc. Wow. You hit the mark every time, Dr. Carter!
Thank you! That's him, a legend in his own mind. He pretends to care until he has all the information to control or destroy you. God bless you!
At the risk of sounding dramatic, I want to tattoo this list on my body so I never forget it. I keep watching it and every time it hits me harder. Does anyone else here struggle with wondering how we love someone who is like this? It is a constant dichotomy of love and disrespect... going both ways
I feel like some good folk have a few of these traits, but they don't have the lack of empathy the person with NPD has. The ultimate test, even with coverts, is when you set boundaries and they turn things around and make you feel shameful or guilty.
or punish you in passive aggressive ways
Healthy boundaries are so great to have, I now use these strategies and I feel healthy for it. You really hit every nail on the head, you've got these people down pat, completely. I wished that I had come across your videos decades ago. These videos need to be in schools for young people so they don't get roped into being manipulated down the wrong path in life. Your easy to listen to. Thanks
Terri, I agree. Children need to be taught, so that they can identify and understand Narcissistic behavior when they are young enough to know how to set boundaries and keep themselves safe and sane!
Same here!
chinookvalley the interesting thing is that children are naturally narcissistic but only the adults are the ones who had a trauma that impacted them from not growing past that narcissistic stage.
I agree, I'm a reformed people pleaser and was a victim of these things all my life. I did not even know what a narc was , now I see I could not control how someone else chooses to be. I can't make them care about me. I had to learn to value myself and find my own path.
As a divorce lawyer I wish every person applying for a marriage license were required to watch this video! I would have far fewer divorce clients, but that is okay. I can always pivot and practice in another area of the law. Keep up the great work Dr. C.
It’s really hard to see how these covert narcissists are consciously manipulating us.
Mine was amazing for nearly a year and then the devaluing started. I would point out how his behavior changed. How he was spending less time with me and on our Relationship, but he wouldn’t listen. Couldn’t listen. We’ve only been split up for three weeks but I can’t imagine ever loving again after this much deception. So if a person is unconsciously able to cause so much havoc, I’m done with Relationships
I found an old friend from my youthful days when we were growing up 40 years ago. We still have all the same old friends and enjoy the ocean together. Let God help you find your way... everything happens for a reason. I feel that I've been through a torture time of testing. WHEW ! When it's all over you look back in amazement that "Normal" to some people is insanity to others. Aloha ~
One thing about narcissists - they're the best fast-track teachers. They force us, quickly, to decide to cower under their power or to HAVE SELF ESTEEM!
I thank that part...then stay away!
Their impatience is part of the manipulative, controlling mindset. Dr. C
@@SurvivingNarcissism Hi! I meant overall in life but, ooooh(!), I didn't think about that tactic from situation to situation. Good one! That's why you're the Doc. Thanks!
There is someone I call the tipping point narc, who was so extreme that I learned so much. It was a blessing in disguise, like an immunity you may get if you survive a potentially fatal disease.
@@sage9836 😉👍
OMG, Yes- mine has taught me so much about people, life and myself. I didn’t even know Narcissistic’s existed before I met him. Now I’m so into psychology trying to get inside of people’s minds and how people work...It hasn’t been a total waste of time..I certainly didn’t know I had patients like I have that’s for sure and they have been tested to the limit!
It took me 40 years to figure out what was happening. Thank goodness for the internet and you tube videos like yours. I sometimes feel so alone because no one except myself and our sons get to see the side of him that has done so much damage to me. Therapy is helping me in so many ways, mainly to forgive myself and realize I am not the bad person in this marriage I was made to believe for so many years.
The Internet is such a blessing. And yes, you are NOT alone!
You have to be about the best I have ever listened to on this subject! Your probably helping many individuals! Wish there were therapists like you more often!
I have left out of my brothers house ! Thank you so much ! I'm free from that abuse ! And never to return ! First I want to give all the praise to our Father ! And you Dr. Les I just love you videos they really saved my life ! Last week my son and his precious wife lost there baby and my mom and brother attacked me with one of the many tactics they use right on the day of the funeral :( I am grieving they didn't care I'm so very thankful for your videos I'm free from it after all my life of living with this evil illness my heart goes out to all the people being destroyed by this keep praying to our Father and listening to this man he's wonderful ! Thank you Dr.Les
And Gus your pretty cool too !!
Definitely!!!!
Soft for low spectrum narcs, seems to portray victims as weak.
Just wonderful. I have a confession to make. One time when I was dealing with the family narcissist who has made me her "project" for years, I just lost it. Only instead of yelling (or choosing a healthier way to deal with the situation, like the alternatives Dr. C is suggesting here) I went DEEPLY into the Land of Sarcasm. I said: "So what you're saying is -- that your wisdom is just light years beyond anything I could imagine. That I'm down here on the ground like a little worm or an insect, while your perspective is more cosmic, even godlike. In short you see things pretty much the way God does." I still have to laugh when I remember that her response was: "Yes. You finally got it." She was dead serious. She had no idea that I was using extreme hyperbole to try to jar her out of her relentless sense of superiority. Now it seems pretty funny. At the time though...? Not so much. I've since given up on sarcasm. Not good for my soul and -- besides -- they never get it anyhow. Thanks again, Dr. C.
Pretty amazing. Dr. C
You must know my mother too. LOL! 😂😂👍👍
Thanks so much for your insights and helpful videos! Currently dealing with all of this. It's an endless cycle, like a snake biting it's tail. Working on the exit!!
Christine, don't let the "narc" know what you're up to. They'll through a wrench into any plans you may have. Unfortunately you'll have to fly under the radar until you're all set to go... Good Luck!
@@jack727 I appreciate your insight and keeping that in mind. Thanks!
Same..good luck
“It’s not about you, drop any sense that you’ll have any intimacy in this relationship. The more you plead, the more you beg, the more they like it because they love to see you wiggle. “ I probably need to tattoo this on my arm. Time to make some changes. Thanks Doc. I’ve given all kinds of requests on having an intimate conversation and why it’s important . I didn’t realize that someone else would get pleasure out of my begging. No more begging! No more catering to the silent treatment. Time I took myself more seriously.
Right on! Dr. C
Victor Kroud I didn’t realizen at the time that my mother was a narcissist, but I got VERY tired of getting the silent treatment when at 45 years old, I stopped doing things her way. So now instead of trying to beg and plead her to tell me what’s wrong, I pretend I don’t even notice that she’s not talking to me. The first two times I took that tack, she slipped up and started talking to me long before she was ready. She seems to treat my dad and me the same way at the same time. We each assume that we did something and she’s taking it out on the other. So the last time Dad complained that he was sick of it, I told him to not play into it. I have stopped playing relay service for her when she’s not speaking to my dad. “Nope, not doing it” and then I don’t. I figure that drawing that boundary and then observing it myself gives her the message that I am to be taken at my word. So far it’s working.
Melanie Shearman : Hey Melanie, impressive. Your Dad may not be ready to get on board but it looks like you working toward self preservation . Nice work. Perhaps just your understanding his position will help your father breath easier.
Victor Kroud Thank you, I’ve really been working hard on personal boundaries period, my mother’s and sister’s narcissism just happen to be areas that I see progress.
Melanie Shearman ; At the risk of boring you with a personal story, my mother became so aggressive and demanding that I went complete non-contact. My father, physically handicapped due to a stroke, (in an assisted living facility) watched me closely for about a year, and when he realized I wasn’t going to buckle under the mom’s pressure, decided he wanted a divorce. The mom, in one of her final rants, informed me that “He was perfectly happy doing what he was told until you came along and empowered him!” Honest truth, those were her words.
I could literally repeat something tht my dad said right back to him and he’d still disagree just because I said it
That's when you know it's time to set very low expectations. Dr. C
That's sad but funny also. Looks like you've got him figured out
So true. Wish I would have known about this earlier. I wasted so many years trying to understand my husband to no avail. It's all too clear now. Thank you
Thank you so much for this. It makes me sad to think about all the narcissists in my life: my mom, my husband, my daughter. It almost sounds like I have a victim complex, but it’s taken me decades to realize that I live among narcissists. I always thought there was something wrong with me.
I'm already so grateful that God gave me a healthy husband (we have our issues nevertheless)... 😀👍
You are not alone 🫂
You've described my mother to a t. She's been holding a grudge for over 30 years but denies she holds grudges.
Oh my goodness this is my daughter
#5: I can actually see myself there; my behaviour when hanging with the narc - trying not to engage, or defend myself, when they are having their monologues about themselves, or my shortcomings.
I guess it's a bit passive agressive? 😃
But when you hear the same story for the 10th time it is hard to be engaged.
The passive aggressive really hits home. How many times I’ve made the error of attempting to appeal to the empathy that is nowhere to be found. It’s akin to a hole in a bucket. It doesn’t matter how much water you put in, it’s always going to remain empty.
Now Dr. C., you must have been hiding in my closet to know "my" narcissists so accurately. *To the Tee!!*
Wish I had known all that *before* I was anywhere near or - alas!! - getting involved with them.
Thank you for putting in the time and effort to make these incredibly helpful videos and
all the best to you!!
Pleased! Dr. C
pacha mama, it does seem as though all of these narcissists are so much the same.
Jack - That is the same observation I made and I read 1000's of comments from abused / manipulated / exploited victims.
Seems all the so called narcissists went to the same academy. Some call them 'legions' and I do understand why.
Ah, and by the way ... my nex was a covert and she was very much as described in this video.
so true!
@@jack727
I'm sure they are in a sense all the same yet what makes it so difficult is their chameleon's guise. Like Dr. Carter said they switch back and forth and after some time you're so trauma bonded you don't know your right or left.
Makes for a poisonous cocktail...
All the best to you!!
That pattern. Wow. I will never forget the moment I saw it and recognised it and called it. She had literally just goaded me into an argument with her, pressed all the right buttons, and there I was about to go off, and I turned around and looked at her. She was literally, settling into her favourite position at the table, standing, leaning on her elbows, she had a grin spreading across her face and was literally in the middle of an ecstatic hip shake as she settled in to watch me react. That was eye opening. It shocked me to a different kind of anger, one that came with a cold flash that she truly didn't care about me, all she wanted was to feel she had the power to make me act at her will. She was enjoying upsetting me. That was it. I walked away. Never again to be sucked in. It took months to get out of her environment, and her behaviour helped me to do so every step of the way. Her hostility and desire to hurt me now full pelt and seeking to slander and destroy me with anyone and everyone who would listen. For her, living with someone who the veil on her narcissism had fallen for, was a fate worse than anything she could imagine. It was awful getting out of there. But I am out six months. Thinking of it still sends chills at how heartless she was and has been. But now I fully understand, she is damaged and somehow unable to come up and care. Safest place to be is knowing she won't change and moving on. Wherever I go from here. I am better off knowing how to spot and avoid anyone like this.
Be careful not to be blinded by surface beauty.
Wish I knew this 65 years ago. I would have had a MUCH BETTER LIFE! Better late than never.
Last point: they love to stalk you (either by sound or anything) and play more mind games with you
So true! The day he met me he might as well of trapped me in a marriage because he never let me out of his sight for years! The few times I left, he showed up every where I was, to the detriment of his own job! I always wondered about the extreme mate guarding he did and why, now I know!
Dr. Carter you've helped me tremendously in terms of understanding the relationship dynamic w my narcissistic family members. I always felt as if I couldn't do anything right, my feelings never mattered and I've always felt inadequate. Thank you for all you do for us!
Pleased! Dr. C
Thank you!
I decided there are just too many things that could pop up and cause a lot grief.
It's exhausting and since I've gone NO CONTACT, It's a huge load off!!
Always go by how you're feeling.
Gently fade away and be good yourself! 😉
Amen!!!
After several years of marriage counselling and summercamps where you can learn how to be married with somebody.. and no connection, no development. Sad, so sad. But I love these videos, thank you from Finland Dr C. for your help!
So pleased to be with you there in Finland! Dr. C
My mother fits this description. She was often described as “independent”. But aloof and uncaring are closer to the mark. When you think of all the terms usually associated with ‘mother’ you can see that there is very little overlap with covert narcissist. It’s like not having a mother. Also, if I may add a trait-if you show compassion to another person, they simply cannot understand your motives. They assume you’re going through some kind of mental breakdown. It’s funny now that I understand (thanks, Doc!) but it was hurtful and confounding at the time.
I feel like I do a lot of these traits now TOWARDS the ex boyfriend who was a very dangerous narcissist. He took me for the crazy emotional rollercoaster of my life. I’m still trying to heal and he’s still trying to creep BACK. But I don’t trust him at all. So now I act very cold to him. My heart is closed. Which I don’t like feeling like this. That common? I have kids worth him so it can’t be no contact unfortunately 😩
I barely comment on videos but 4 real this man actually knows his stuff..reason why i love his channel
So pleased! Dr. C
I was raised by a overt narcissist father and a covert narcissist stepmother and an enabling mother, all in the same freaking household. I’m going to write a book one day about my experiences but wow, it took me 33 years to get out and draw strong boundaries of no contact.
I remember coming home from work and he was watching TV and said what do you have to bitch about this time? He use to say he would talk to women and only BS came out of their mouth now i know better, He was never really happy for me about something good for me. he begrudgingly said thank you, this is s a great video i missed! No intimacy of any kind this is great!!
This has made me realize my ex was a covert narcissist all along. A giant weight has been lifted off my chest. I understand the gaslighting and crazy-making now, she can move on with life without regret, knowing I’m truly better off and there’s not much I could have done better. Thank you so much!
Thank you for this - I feel so empowered now and can finally stop explaining my feelings or asking why he acts that way
"that shoulda been mine" exactly!
I am married to a covert narc for the past 18 years now. The most frustrating part in my soul crushing experience is the fact that everyone except me and my teenage son think of him as the most courteous and kind gentleman! Oh it hurts! Thank you, Dr. C , as always🌟💛
How in the world do you know these covert narcissist so 100 percent all 19 you described is what I have been dealing with for 30 years. He is pathetic and I know that he has the devil inside of him
Thank you for this great video, when you are dealing with these kind of people there is no one you can share these horrible things with because no one never believe you they just think you are
CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes thats the problem that i was having for 3 years. I would tell people what was going on and people would just dismiss me because people on the out side think iam crazy too. They wont say it but you know what they are thinking. What your saying is like something out of a horror film.
My older sister used to drive me to high school on her way to her office. One morning while waiting in her car for her to finish her elaborate makeup and hair ritual, I thought, oh boy we're going to be late - and we were by about 20 minutes. That night she told me that she'd been chewed out by her boss, and if I ever made her late again like that, I'd have to start taking the bus to school. This really happened! She's gotten worse over the years, and I unfortunately don't feel like I can deal with her any more. Logic never enters into her mind.
Use the doctors strategies they're helpful
Jeanog >>>>>> just go no contact, your sister will only get worse with age as you have already stated!
@@gingerella7934, How dare you make your sister bring that cigarette up to her lips. (!)
Individuate, move away and live a separate life as far as possible.
...and, how those older sisters like to think that they'll always know more than you because they're 'older' (like a couple of years still matters after a certain age)! Just plain goofy.
When a narc walks in the door I think it might be a good idea to do what Elvis did and that is, "leave the building".
Its so true that not having that longed for deep connection is so hard
After losing my connection to my family friends ..i ended up isolated ..watch was the most painful part of it all
The sad thing was i had lost trust . For me that the scariest part of it all.
In that sense iam i bit like the nars ..that i have my hands out in front of me ..so far and no further
But saying that ive built a story around my pain ..
So the thing i need to do
Is collapse that hard wired structure ...which to be tottaly honest ties in to my own childhood...
I was already broken before i got married ..
It feels like you've become the narcissist...isolated and insecure, often mean and detached...and their voice is in your head saying "see, it IS you!"
It's depressing on the best days & unbearable at moments.
I'm just getting out of a physically, emotionally, psychologically abusive relationship. One I ended when my children started experiencing my wife at her worst. Out of everything, my wife destroyed me, starting from almost the beginning, always calling me self-centered, a narcissist, etc. This has made me feel like the bad guy from day one! Even the week I had her removed with a restraining order for myself and the kids, I was at a local church begging God to forgive me from taking a mother from her children. I was always called selfish, and that really sticks with someone. Whenever I found something I enjoyed, it was egotistical to actually enjoy it.
I wonder if this is a tactic with other narcissists? I'm seeing two counselors, and I can't stop feeling like I'm the bad guy. She sent me to the doctors and one of my kids to the hospital.
The situation was out of control, and I think I lost a big portion of myself because of it.
OMGGG I am separated from my husband of 30 years and 3 sons later. He is a Covert Narcissist! You are BANG ON! I seriously thought you were describing him. I have never had anyone describe what he was before you! I knew he was narcissist but he didn’t fall under Grandiose and I was sometimes more confused because I knew he was NOT right! (Of course not until I had counselling could I name what he was). Thank you so much for all of your information it is so insightful 🙏💜
A couple years ago, my narcissistic wife told her friends that her mum died when she didn’t. Just to get sympathy from others. She even went mad at the ones who didn’t send her cards of condolences.I have only started to understand what is happening to me a week ago.
Please everybody listen. Dr Carter is so accurate. For each number he explained, I had a memory. A covert narcissist is a soul- sucking human. Very dangerous to self- esteem, health, finances ,your personal point of view and friends.
What a fantastic video Dr. C - thank you so very much for this! My experience with Covert Narcissists is that they never reveal anything negative about themselves (their flaws, mistakes, etc...) nor do they talk much about themselves or your relationship with them. They are not concerned with how others feel at all - just themselves. You are so very right - intimacy is pretty much an impossibility with them! They just talk about the NEWS, the weather or other people like co-workers, neighbors, friends etc... They lie about things you caught them doing or that other people told you they did, no matter how obvious the lies are. They will literally take these lies to their graves - you will most likely never get the truth out of them! Their apologies are absolutely meaningless. If and when they actually do apologize, it has been immediately followed with justifying excuses as to why they did what they did, thus right fighting their wrong actions. They are 100% wolves in sheep's clothing. One Covert Narcissist I know is EXTREMELY covert and VERY good at hiding things, for the most part. Thanks again and have a beautiful holiday season! :)
They are not curious. If they ask it's to use against you.
The more I educate myself about them, the more I feel sorry for them. I didn't realize how dark their inner world was nor how deeply unhappy they are. I am very grateful for this channel which has opened my eyes and answered a lot of decades-long questions I had! Thank you!
You are spot on about the lack of appreciation or graciousness...you can't do anything that actually PLEASES them, and it's very frustrating. Most of us appreciate most anything...a card, a kind word...any type of gift. We would NEVER criticize the gift, give it back, make fun of it, act ungrateful,etc. The 3 narcissists I've had in my life were ALL very ungracious and unappreciative. That is a VERY strange personality flaw(in my opinion)....it falls under the "BAD MANNERS" category, too!
Its not even "bad manner" I think even people with very poor education will have more appreciation and common politeness than people of this kind. My only son is one of them too... 😧😧
Thank you for validating my experience and feelings
Thank you so much for this. I had to deal with one of these for a long time and it almost completely destroyed me. I think I finally have a grasp of what was going on the whole time and why I felt so constantly awful. They basically lived and breathed all 18 of these traits and it made me feel so small, worthless and unloved it felt like my life was over, trapped with a person I loved deeply that never gave an inch of affection back. It was literally like hitting my head against a wall constantly and no matter how hard I tried, they never seemed to care. They never cared about me, just how I would affect them. The real danger with these is even after its done, you'll still yearn to break through because you care for them deeply and don't want them to suffer, and for many, that can tip them over the edge when they just become more distant over time. BEWARE!
It took me 35 years to find out what was wrong with my late husband because I had never heard about narcissism. I am thankful for videos like Dr. Carter's that finally showed me who my husband was and who I was.
S.Goff,You don't need a narcissist in your life...
This video made me aware that the reason I have had so many narcissistic relationships is that my father is an overt narcissist. Very emotionally and verbally abusive for my entire life. My current husband is an overt narcissist. I initially thought him very different from my father but have discovered that they are really very much the same. Thank you for your very informative videos. I am learning a lot.
JJAE-- "JUDGE, JURY, AND EXECUTIONER". I had to keep this sign up to remind me not to try to converse with the Narcissist to avoid the vitriol.
#12, 13, 14, ...wow, just...ALL of them. And I have noticed #18! No curiosity about me WHATSOEVER! so helpful!
My ex didn't know whether I was graduated or not. After three years together! I supposed he just imagined I was, as I teach, and that was enough for him. I never mentioned the matter because I was waiting to see if it was just a slip, so pushed the topic a couple of times. Nothing. No reaction. I lived abroad part of my life. No curiosity at all, not just social ordinary curiosity for something different. But they live their own lives, fullfilled as they are by they wonderful selves.
That was my first indication something wasn't right.
Contents of this video
1. Low attempts to connect (1:26)
2. Hyper-sensitive in emotional responses (2:00)
3. Low sensitivity toward your emotions (2:40)
4. Over-interpret your emotions (3:04)
and they personalize what you feel
5. Bored or disinterested (3:47)
6. Chronic sense of judgment (4:18)
7. Uncomfortable in groups (4:57)
8. Quietly blame others for their flaws (5:36)
9. Apologies feel shallow (6:16)
10. Punishment via silence or withdrawal (6:55)
11. Easy feelings of victimization (7:34)
12. Appearing humble, yet feeling egotistical (8:16)
13. Often feel jealous (8:55)
14. Difficulty saying thanks, expressing gratitude (9:30)
15. Shyness may be a cover for smugness (9:59)
16. Hold grudges for a long time (10:36)
17. Identify as a misunderstood unique person (11:01)
18. A lack of curiosity (11:38)
Eye opening. I have felt something was so wrong with me. After listening to your video I feel immensely relieved to hear that I'm not a horrible person who deserves this awful treatment. I have been going thru hell. Thank you for your videos!
Cat Williams same here! Hang in there. It will get better!
@@WhtMike2006 Thank you Andre!! I'm holding on in there!!!