How Much Faster Do Pro Cyclists Ride Downhill?
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- čas přidán 10. 06. 2024
- Pro cyclists descend at death-defying speeds, hitting speeds over 100KPH with just skinny tires and thin lycra being all that separates them from the road! So how do beginners and amateurs compare? With the help of our friends at@RideShimanowe've been finding out!
In association with @RideShimano👉 gcn.eu/Shimano
Welcome 0:00
Where are we cycling? 0:29
How well do amateur cyclings descend? 1:49
How good are pro cyclists 3:04
How do bike brakes work? 3:18
Ollie's downhill run 4:55
The results 6:26
Deeper dive 7:23
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🤔How would you rate your descending skills?
Let us know 👇
I survived coming down Mount Leinster in Ireland on rim brakes. There's parts that go over 20%. My heart rate was probably higher on the way down 🙈
Terrible
Good enough to catch up with my riding buddy who is better on the climb.
If i stay alive, im happy.
Terrible, unfortunately I love climbing, but am yet to find a route that's uphill both ways.
A comparison how the GMBN presenters descend vs. GCN would be interesting.
i was thinking along similar lines as well, how would a XC bike with smoother tires fare on that descent, could you just let go of the brakes and let Jesus take the wheel and survive.
@@k1vd038 That‘s what came to my mind too. 203mm rotors, super tacky tires and off you go. But it might be that braking hard an late is not the best for flowing turns.
Ooooo now that sounds like a goo idea... do you have a descent in mind that we should use?
@@gcn stelvio 😎😝
@@gcn I‘d try on two different ones. A flowing fast one like Cheddar Gorge and something with sharp corners and more gradient.
For the full picture, we need to see Safa Brian do this.
Probably cut 20 seconds easily
Yes they can learn a lot how he does it, much better camera angels and gps data while riding, Safa Brian is amazing.
💨
Featuring Tom Pidcock
Might have helped to see how much power each cyclist used to gain those times
I considered myself a pretty fast descender for years, that changed quite a bit when I crashed descending and broke some bones :( Am way more careful now, probably for the better!
All the fun went away...
There is absolute no point taking downhill risks as an amateur. I get going fast is fun but its simply not worth it.
You're not alone on this, lots of people really struggle with confidence after a crash. How are you getting on now?
Cycling is low impact until you crash, then it’s not. I was out of commission for 5 months due to a high speed crash.
I'm not sure how I feel about cutting the middle line. I think as a non racer on open roads, you should always stay on your side. At the end of the day, we expect the same from cars.
Fully agree, it's fine on closed roads obviously. If I saw them doing this on Top Gear I'd be livid as it's bloody dangerous, this is too for cyclists coming up the road, fatality almost guaranteed.
Agreed. It's hard to tell with the editing, but Ollie appeared to cross the line less. That could be a significant factor in him being slowest.
Exactly what was in my head throughout this video - is this a closed road as the edit showed crossing over to the other side of the road.
Dont be such a puss
If it's a broken line you are legally allowed to cross it. And as we don't know what visibility of the road they had ahead of them we can't really judge.
In 1998 I descended the Croix de Fer to St. Jean with campag chorus rim brakes in just under an hour. When I went back in 2012 with a carbon bike (also chorus rim brakes), I descended in about an hour. More recently I was there in 2022. On a carbon bike, this time with shimano ultegra disc brakes, I descended in about an hour. Each time, I could not have cared any less about how fast I was going up or down those mountains, but I'm convinced I will remember the views from each day with absolute clarity until the day I die.
Sounds like an amazing time on the bike! Is there a bike in particular that you had the most fun on? 🚴
I reckon chainless would be interesting.
All in all it’s interesting that there wasn’t much difference
Yep. That's because at 40-44 mph, the speed range all participants achieved, the wall of air overcomes gravity and determines speed.
Interestingly, the air is less dense at high altitude, [5000 ft.+] so in a full tuck, not pedaling, you'll descend faster. I noticed this coming down Mt. Wilson, CA, a 22 mile run dropping 5200 ft.
Chainless would be fun! Next time we're in Girona we'll getting those pliers out 🔧
@@gcn how about chainless going uphill you could equal a pro then....
Thanks for brake cam, very informative
Great videos! Keep them coming.
Love how GCN can do interesting and useful AD)
That's the aim of the game 🙌 Glad you enjoyed the video - are there any other subject or products you would like to see on the channel?
@@gcn belt drives for bikepacking.
Super interesting. I'm still working on my cornering skills on descents. When I was learning how to drive and also when I was learning to fly, I learned to power through turns to prevent drift from centrifugal force. This was a good reminder to brake before turns and power through.
Wow your full trains, plains and automobiles 🙌Glad we could help !
@gcn complete with the 🤪 crazy. Add climbing, sailing, scuba diving, swimming and running in there and you've got a tired but happy person. 😇
Another fun informative filum
Thanks Olly love you too 🙂
Most informative and instructive video. Chapeau to the riders and to Ollie's analysis. Efficiency is the goal here.
Great to hear you enjoyed it! 🙌
From the short clips, I think Alexys uses more of the road while Joe and Ollie only use 1 lane.
Could that be one of the reasons for the time difference as well?
The more you can straighten the curves, the less energy you waste going around them.
@@TimothyFish Straightening the curves also reduces the total distance traveled.
Noticed that as well and it sure makes a difference (both in the speed you can keep through the curve, because Alexys' track corresponds to a larger effective radius, as well as distance traveled). I suspect it is due to different background - professional rider who is used to roads being closed to traffic, so can use both lanes, vs. hobbyists who are well advised to stay on their side of the (non-closed) road...
So, "Dr. Oliver Bridgewood" is now a separate category 😋
An analysis of the different lines taken into corners would’ve been interesting too…
Great vid, interesting that both brakes were used by the pro. Love you BYE❤
What mount was used to mount the camera? Looks pretty interesting. Wished GCN would do a video to teach us how to take videos for our rides like what camera, mount, sticks, mics, etc... and how to shoot epic videos safely while riding
A behind the scenes video would be good fun 🤔 What sort of video would you like to see?
Agreed.
I will find out first hand when i ride to Old Willunga Hill and ride the descent! :D
Great overlay on the times with the consideration of efficiency. Learning point / reminder for everyone about being curious/ suspicious of single figure metrics. Pay equality being the ultimate example.
Descending against time without gloves - brave - very brave 👍
Seeing this more and more. Plenty more skinned palms in the sport now
line choice and knowing the corners also helps, it's all about positioning yourself for not just the current corner but the next one coming up as well. Get joe and yourself on a mountain bike trail a bit more and you will be flowing down the descents a lot quicker.
I hit 68MPH descending the Col d'Izoard. into Briancon in 2006 rim brakes and they worked fine. I didn't zero my old cat-eye computer for months.
Fascinating stuff. Taaa GCN
No worries Paul 👌
there’s an old gcn video in which presenters raced decending without a chain, excellent content and highlights braking and technique rather than power👌
Lol yeah I thought the ace would space himself along way from both of you ollie. All three of you only seconds apart. I like to go fast. That was alot of curves though. Very fun to watch. Have been getting into these decent videos, on bikes and also cart race decent videos. So much fun, gotta watch those hair pins though.
I would have liked to see some comparisons of the lines each rider took round the bends, especially Alexys (rather than the Shim marketing blah, which could have gone at the end). A somewhat bendier descent might have yielded bigger differences.
Neat concept, it would have been better to show the avg power used by each rider. Good chance the pro was putting out power, not just coasting around. Or, no pedaling allowed at all and that'll show you how to flow a downhill vs nailing the brakes over and over.
I’d like my braking force linear, thanks. I don’t want the feel changing, the more I pull the lever!
You should try. It feels very natural.
There are even rimbrakes that emulate the breaking power in that way... Campa if you remember the good old days 😢
It would be fascinating to have a side by side footage going into the same corner to see the difference in braking commencement, split between both brake levers and the technique, I think pro rider was a single finger braker?
Maybe a silly question, but did all three bikes have the same left for rear right for front brake setup?
Nice going Ollie!
Thanks for pinpointing all the bits I wanted to skip easily on the time bar
That's the beauty of time stamps 😉 Glad we could get you to the good bits
A closed road will always make a difference to how one rides a course. How you are able to read the camber on the road and use it to your advantage plays a big factor . In the end, it comes down to confidence and risk and how much bottle one has.
would be interesting to do a comparison with rim brakes but all other factors made equal i.e. 105 rim vs 105 disc etc
I love decending , best effort was Ventoux back down to Bedoin route. from the top to the first hairpin at the bottom in under 17 mins.
Oooof that is rapid 💨 Do you think that you're going to ever be able to beat that?
@@gcn Not likely now i am older and wiser. it was on the limit, at the time it was 80th out of 14K on Strava. think it is a lot lower down now. Only claim at the time was that i beat Laurens Tem Dam
More videos with double screen of downhill corners from far away and close up on the fingers breaking. To see when amateurs and pros break and how they do it. Front / back / both...thanks!
Nice idea 💡
You want to see fingers breaking, on GCN?!!
@@irfuel Noh, I want to see how the fingers move when the bike breaks. To see how experts use their breaks on the front wheel, back wheel and/or both wheels. To know what break to use before and during turns etc.
@@narakdk Ah you not only want to see fingers breaking, but also bikes breaking? Wonder who's going to volunteer for that!
@@irfuel well, at least you have fun from bullying non-native English speakers. I hope that your mom is proud of you when you tell her that. I hope that GCN see this and react on you.
When the results are all so close, not much can be gleaned.
When I lived in Colorado I would regularly descend mountain roads at 60+ mph. And that was with 23c tires at 110psi and rim brakes. I would love to see what it would be like now with disc brakes and bigger tires.
That is fast 🤯 How far would you feel comfortable pushing the limits now?
@@gcn I don’t live in a place that has big descents anymore. But im vary comfortable with high speeds and corners. I got that way racing motorcycles.
Tire pressure choices, improved tires and tpu tubes go a long way towards comfortably speeding down a hill. The awful Gatorskins used to make my bike airborne on certain CO roads coming down into Evergreen. I am reaching once more speeds similar to CO, except now the air is a lot denser than coming down from Echo Lake past Squaw Pass :)
Hello Ollie. Why do you use xtr discs insted of dura ace?
Interesting video, especially regarding the tech associated with disc calipers and rotors and the comparative analysis of the braking techniques of the two amateurs and the pro rider. I'll add that I suspect that Ollie's time would have been even better had he not narrated during his descent.
Ollie just loves talking about himself too much 😉
I live in the flatlands, so it's rare that I get over 70kph on short hills, but I did have one road race up in Wisconsin where I was descending at 90kph, in a pack. (pretty scary with everyone close together)
90KPH! Wow, that's scary stuff!
@@gcn It was a straight decent, so I didn't have to worry about cornering. If you lose the pack because of a lack of guts, you'll never see them again.
Just like auto racing it is about carrying speed thru the corner. But it is just not that also, depending on the shape of the corner and what is after the corner it can be exit speed. DO you late brake for a corner and how late, Or do you brake a little early because you want to change where the apex of the corner is so that you have a higher exit speed because of what is after the corner. Some of this about experience but some of it is about knowing the road.
I am a good decender and also a motorcycle rider which definitely helps with the skill.
How?
really, how? Motorbikes loose grip way sooner then bicycles for same speed and curvature, weight distribution feel is dampened too. So in all seriousnees, it's rather being a cyclist makes you a better motorist.
@@feedbackzaloop *motorcyclist?
@@feedbackzaloop I very much doubt that. Do you have some study you can cite?
@@russellinthebush2897 I can tell from statistics of camera bikes not holding up to the cyclists in races and you can see for yourself that bikes can lean harder than motorbikes before hitting the ground as well as not needing to be leaning since most of mass is the rider who can actively move compared to most of the mass concentrated in the motorbike. It doesn't make for a good research paper simply putting different center of mass positions into otherwise same model.
I want to see this again with Pidcock.
Good ol' Joe. Awesome. 👍
Suggestion: I would like to see an analysis of a pro descending a steeper hill with hairpin turns and where they start and stop braking. Maybe using a microswitch on the brake lever so it is not just theory. Have it overlaid on the birds-eye view route. Either that or an overlaid video of the brake levers with the route. That would be super helpful.
Sounds like a great idea, would you say this descent wasn't technical enough?
@@gcn I am a bit of a tech geek. It seems like a fun video more so than educational. So more technical would be better for me. Maybe have a beginner do a timed ride, have a coach analyze them. Then do a timed ride after the coaching and practice to see the improvement. So many ways to make a good video.
I was wondering about a comparison of GMBN vs GCN riders (both on road bikes) when at 10:14 Ollie was 'surprised' that Alexys used his rear brake (!) I would /never/ grab my front brake first. This seems to be a roadie thing. For me, having come into road from MTB, I am nearly always feathering the rear on descents and am only on the front if heavy braking is required. It seems to allow more fine tuning, permitting the wee bit of scrubbing necessary to enter a curve - and just feels safer. Strava-wise, I tend to place high up on DH work (say top 5-10%) vs my climbing which is well
It is not a roadie thing, it is a bike thing. Many road bikes turn in better with front brake application. My FS mtb understeers like a pig if I touch the front brake in or before a turn, otoh :) Different bike , different techniques, one cannot drive a nose-heavy front wheel drive car like a 911 and expect the same behavior around the corners.
Cracking work on this Ollie!
Setting up a good line through a corner is critical. The right line will reduce the effective curvature, i.e., increase the radius of the curve. Less lateral acceleration means more speed.
I come from downhill skateboarding so descending is a bit of joy for me. Probably not as fast as a pro on most but definitely have been on my local mountain.
Must really help having that confidence when going downhill. Did you ever catch Hank racing a Longboarder? 👉 czcams.com/video/rLR-7hGduv8/video.html
I did. Enjoyed that one! Great combo@@gcn
Ditto! Although I once bailed badly while doing the Bude downhill so have been a bit of a pussy descending on a road bike.
Did all the bikes have power meters? If so, how many kilojoules did each rider expend to complete the course?
Good video; Alexis seemed to be cutting the corners more based on the footage shown. This would have allowed him to go a bit faster, possibly more risky if there was up coming traffic.
I would be curious the see the results with the same people riding down on a high-end steel frame. Steel gives your frame more flexibility lateraly, which is good for negociating curves at high speeds.
And who is that man that do this segment faster than GCN. 4:39 OMG!!! (8:15 timing)
I'd be very curious on the climb + descent, instead of only the descent. Even if just a "what did you do prior to getting here?" and "what will you do after?" Everyone was darn fast, but Alexys was most efficient about it - not wasting speed by braking meant he didn't have to expend energy to get back to speed. Small (but very distinct) gain on the downhill, but by not expending energy downhill, he has fuel to go uphill later that Ollie and Joe do not.
I wish I had some longer downhill stretches. I miss them. I've gotten my commuter bike with loaded panniers to 60-65km/hr recorded, and what felt like my fastest I forgot to turn on the GPS. But that was pedalling HARD downhill to compensate for my non-aero-style. Nowadays my GPS is obviously a liar and tells me I hit 100km/hr when I very obviously did not (probably 50km/hr) on short downhills where I have to slam on the brakes due to stop lights. This area would be so fun for zoomies if not for the damn intersections!! And I wish my GPS didn't lie >.
Interested in that comparison between Shimano ultegra and Shimano Dura Ace. I was under the impression that both sets have the exact same performance with the price difference coming in Weight?
Correct.
My two pen’orth. You can have all the balance, all the cornering ability, all the top end kit and all the bravery but if you don’t know about brake balance (front and rear) you’re going backwards or crashing.
I have brake pads of less stopping power in the rear caliper to help with the balance you are referring to...
@@menelaos951 well done. You still have to use modulate properly between front and rear.
My maon spprt is motorcycle racing where brakes and tires are a key component without talking about lines ....
On paper Inshould crush any pros downhill but in the end, well not. Risk taking is a key element. Infind it nuts to go that fast wearing lycra, tiny toy helmet, skinny tires and nontire warmers. Give me my dainese airbag suit and helmet and inwill give it a go, otherwise nonway. You guys are nuts!!!! I mean a crash a 70 on a bycicle or a superbike is still a 70Km/h crash.
Maybe an idea for a video 😂
Stx groups etc with 54 46 39 front chainrings and 26x2.5 hookworm tyres knee sliders and do not use brakes.
5:55 - and here people we see Dr Bridgewood forgetting the main lever principle - more movement, less force; less movement, more force.
So, to put things straight, this is how actually servowave works: for given brake lever movement first pads move more, exerting less force, further into the stroke they move in less, exerting more force.
I watched Tom Pidcock descent in the Tour de France and how he made other pros look like amateurs.
I'm personally more afraid of cars or trucks coming from the other side while you descend, or of women with several dogs consuming the entire road. You might think go earlier, well they also go earlier...
But a few months ago Alex of GCN interviewed him how he descends so fast
women and, perhaps, men, with several dogs!
@@alicejwho 9 out of 10 its women, but yes sometimes men
@@Aragorn.Strider how odd.
@@alicejwho agree. The complete muppet (polite version) who let his Jack Russell on a lead coming leaping into the road at me yesterday was definitely a man!
@@kenbaxter4515 happens to me, too!
A bit surprised the times were all so close. Would expect the pro to have won by 10s-15s.
I've fallen over my handlebars going down descents twice and tend to take them slow now.
Cadel Evans vs Paul segan is a match up I would like to see
I use to descend faster when I was younger, but I’m more careful now in my late 60s as I know I won’t bounce as easily if I come off. 😅
Remember that pros usually have a closed road and the full width available to use. Makes for a more efficient and confident descent. Us mortals will have to settle for half a road and random obstacles to avoid. Kind of limits options and confidence.
Power readings would have proved useful.
Aside from some learned technical skills that a pro will have over an amateur, one of the biggest reasons for any difference between the two (certainly over race conditions or on a long ride) will be the ability for a pro to get the power down earlier on exiting a corner and then being able maintain that power until the next corner. Many amateurs will be so ball bagged after the ascent that precedes the climb, that they'll free wheel or light spin between bends. Pros will be full chat and wring every KM out of the hill, both through the bends but also between them. 👍
That was pretty close.
The amateur time was particularly surprising. Yes in competition those few second are decisive. But if you think about it, that is not much difference. I was expecting some 30-45 seconds difference, or something more marked than a few seconds.
Riding without gloves, be careful, men! Interesting film thanks.
I was expecting the pro to be much faster than the others!
Should had done this together with the hookless rims video.
Basically the 105 brakes are as good as the Dura Ace
closed or empty roads mist also be a factor.
When you look at all 3 runs, the difference in cornering as in hitting the apex, road position, will gain or lose seconds. I was taught to ride motorcycles by traffic police and raced so I understand the racing line, which I use while cycling, maybe I should do a video on it.
Aaaah! It's the same Alex from the gcn en français. The beast who develops 450watts cycling on one leg only and laughing about it. Hope your gravel carreer is going well! WE miss you from the show "en français"
I've always been a scaredy cat on descents. Unless they're straight. Then I fly. Having rim brakes probably is one of those reasons, but I'm not confident in judging corner min speeds. I hit 42-43 mph regularly though (at 145 pounds)
And how does this compare to someone using the old Dura Ace rim brakes? I am not denying that for sheer braking stopping power that disc brakes will win, but using brakes on a descent is not like that, it's about feel. I have a bike with 105 discs and it performs very well on a fast descent, but when I use my bike with Shimano Dura Ace on Alu rims with carbon wheels (from 2017) it feels so much more "part of me" if that makes sense. i.e. disc brakes work very well, but I feel more in control with the rim brakes.
It's an ad. There will be very little difference in performance. Rotor will make the biggest difference.
Ollie is a monster!! The people’s cyclist
I find it most fascinating, that the fastest time on the same descent is more than one minute quicker than any of the three.
What happened with the 100 kmh pros descent?
A difference was probably use of the road. Joe was broadly sticking to his side of the white line
I remember vividly how much it hurts when crashing at 40Kph, going 70Kph+ downhill with corners feels like to much of a risk for me.
yeah its completely stupid to take descent risks unless someone is paying you to do so...
“Don’t crash”, sage advice there
I would have liked to have heard the attempt to say “squirrel”
I’m 6 months into cycling and I’ve increased my rides average speed from 13.9MPH over 70 miles to 15.7MPH. But descending terrifies me! I’m told I’ll get bette, but my self preservation takes over.
Nothing wrong with that! It would be good to see a descending tips video for beginners complete with cars coming the other way, blind corners etc.
I really would have liked to have seen "Big brass ones" Hank on this downhill to see how close he could have come to the Pro.
Yea, but have you tried Campagnolo brakes designed by Magura? 😉
100 km/h on a road bike? oh wow and i felt scared after going 65km/h on my mtb but to be fair back then i didn't really know how to use my front brake so the stopping distance was huge. 😀
Road bikes feel much more stable at high speed. Front break is very important.
@@torinstorkey interesting. I wonder why that is. 🤔
Proper Frenchman , didn’t even try 😂😂😂 😎
Undertaking a downhill chanllenge without gloves sure is a newbie move ...
Should have done the start with the rider supported, takes that clipping in thing from the equation. (Also making sure the right gear is selected 🤦♂️)
I am an amateur rider and hit 55mph on decent in a race on closed roads. It was awesome but it doesnt take much of a mistake at that speed to have catastrophic consequences. I wouldnt do it on the open road for sure.
They should have a downhill time trial in the tour de france.
A 10/15 min run. Where a crash is DNF. And time lost, is to the fastest descender. Riders with caution, could lose minutes. The brave gain minutes.
It would really spice things up.
Descending is part of le tour. But not an event in its own right.
Your amateur was not so amateur.
I feel like the time difference in the end is kind of insignificant... I'm not sure about what that means though.
I'd love for you to talk a bit more about what heat does. You've said that heat dissipation is important, that pros know how to manage it better, but not why heat build up is bad or how it affects breaking.
Brake fade.
Whether you’re descending in a car or a bike, the brakes will only work for so long if you keep using continually. Eventually, they just fail - until you let them cool down again.
I would be wearing mitts
Now try that on rim brakes
3:06-3:12 where Alex is wandering in the background of the shot and realizing he's been caught making a social call 🥸
Take a shot every time oillie says heat dissipation 😅.