1:18:57 Dave and Jonathan only 1:19:21 reminder to please donate to Ukraine 1:19:57 news on Viktor Petrenko 1:20:28 Dave and Jonathan’s take on world championship (should it continue or not) 1:22:59 how this world championship can be antidote on this open secret on Russia doping 1:24:15 russia suppose to give WADA data 1:25:35 Jonathan applauding on Dave’s as the blade turn (yay to u Dave!) 1:27:42 skaters changing countries 1:33:01 Nikolai said Annabelle Morozov has a new partner (Devid Naryzhnyy) 1:34:40 how long Russian will be ban for (leads to 1:35:17 how FS funding would be impacted during this ban) 1:38:40 Kostornia leaving/kick out from Eteri 1:45:02 skating shows (how some invite skaters from other countries and some are not) 1:46:50 world 2022 may open opportunities for other skaters to medal
I don't totally agree with Christine when she says "we want the best athletes at the Olympics". I would say "we want the best *healthy, clean* athletes at the Olympics". I think Jonathan's take is the more accurate one. I do agree with her though that the judging being done fairly is a far bigger issue. It's not just the PCS though - the GOEs are wildly inaccurate too.
I think the age restriction is still an issue. Yes they might jump more quads in juniors if the age limit was raised, but they won’t be more complete skaters, and therefore not the best.
@@lindaallison5338 I agree, but I think that could be fixed with correct scoring. If they aren't mature skaters, and their jumps aren't actually that great, they shouldn't get marked as if they are.
I completely agree with Jonathan! As the Blade Turns is some of the best journalism out there. Thank you, Dave, for your unwavering commitment to the truth.
This is a great conversation, but I found myself screaming "no!" over and over again when Christine was talking about the age and how raising it would make the "best athletes in the world" compete at junior worlds rather than Olympics. I'm sorry but landing 3As and quads of dubious quality and horrendous technique does not constitute "the best athletes in the world". How about their skating skills? Actual proper jumping technique with no prerotation? What about artistry? That's a really really bad take IMO. We need the age raised precisely so that we can stop calling jumping beans with no actual skating quality or artistry "the best in the world". Ugh, that one really made me angry.
The best skaters in the world “are” below 18 years old. Sorry if that triggers you. You act as if skaters like Mariah bell ( who jumps on an inside edge triple lutz) , Kaori sakamoto ( ditto), Karen Chen ( chronic underrotations) or any of the “mature” women have that much better technique to go along with their “artistry.” Just no. Mao Asada famously reworked her technique FOR 4 YEARS and didn’t improve much at all. Doping aside, Kamila was the best skater in the world at 15. Her weaknesses ( pre-rotated toe jumps) don’t make her worse than any skater right now. She has great musicality, the best free leg of all time, some of the fastest and most flexible spins, etc. Her quad jumps have the height of men’s jumps with beautiful arm position. Anyone who says otherwise is just a hater. I agree she should be penalized for doping but not because she actually doped but because it’s against the rules.
same here...we want artistry, as well as jumps, no more quadfests and doping prodigies...russia needs to be banned not only because of the war, but also for the systemic doping.
@@jamesyu5212 dude, do you understand what artistry means???...I would always look a Mariah performing Chicago, Kaori performing Amelie, or Karen Chen, than a quadfest with trusova, or "bolero" with that doping prodigy...she should be banned for at least 2 years because she doped, lied about it (grandpa burped...LOL) and also because russia continues with systemic doping, and she's part of that scheme. No more 15yo and 16yo...we want more mature figure skaters who could interpret music and not dopped russian jumpers...
Not sure why it’s hard for Christine to understand that provoking Nathan and Vincent to criticize the CCP endangers their relatives in China? She will get her soundbite but the people in question will have to deal with the wrath of their government. She knew this and yet she pressed for answers (that were already given to her)
Disagree with how Christine said that if we impose age restriction, we won't have the "best" skaters at the Olympics and that it's Jr. Worlds that would have those "best" skaters since they'll be jumping quads. She's echoing the problematic notion that doing "quads" = best skaters (there's also the fact that those "quads" done by girls are really fake quads - i.e., very much prerotated, accomplished more by spinning rather than jumping, toe jumps are done with full blade assist - so you can't even call those girls excellent technicians). Um hello, there's also PCS - which isn't scored accurately. There's more to skating than quad jumps, whether they be real or fake. P.S. Am aware that the problematic jump technique is done by boys too. The issue is just more common in girls since they can stay much smaller compared to boys.
then you should also hold those responsible who pretend to have diseases in order to legally get banned medicines. in 2015 over 1300 applications from us athletes only needed medication for diseases that would have been better started at the paralympics.
When Christine speaks about Russian media, I wish she’d acknowledge that the lack of watchdog journalists is a direct result of the government’s crackdown on that type of journalism, not some inherent failing of Russian media. I would assume she doesn’t mean to demean Russian journalists and outlets who’ve been silenced, but her imprecise wording, combined with her tone, kind of makes her comments come across as bluntly nationalistic.
Moreover, it’s nonsensical triumphalism when one considers that American mainstream media is just as blatant propaganda as Russian state controlled media - the only difference is that the oligarchy and ruling class that controls the media has been privatized in a different way.
@@QQ-wl6yt I get what you’re saying and partly agree with the sentiment. Functionally, though, there’s an important difference in that journalists who don’t toe the party/corporate line get fired, rather than sent to prison camps, poisoned by the state, etc. They can still express their views openly on social media and work as independent journalists without risking their or their families’ lives. Yes, the American media ecosystem has many problems, but they’re (currently) not equivalent to the problems with the Russian media ecosystem.
I think her interview with Gleb Smolkin and Diana Davis after their rhythm dance was a staggering display of her nationalism that frankly bordered on xenophobia (let alone ableism) and was very disturbing and embarrassing to watch. Perhaps her journalism had quality and professionalism in the past, but now it's hard to see her relevance in the field. It seemed that she was ferociously grabbing onto the Valieva case to maintain her relevance and presence in the sports journalism world. I found it repulsive.
She is speaking with an agenda and it takes away from the real problem and solution. By all means; call out Tutberidze and her team but don't use it as a platform to form opinions. Especially concerning the current events. Wars are currently used as fodder for public opinion on all levels. Sports might seem insignificant but it is definitely political. Christine is highlighting the political: Russians=bad. West=good. Public opinion dictates world politics. I might sound a bit tinfoil-hat, but I believe that any media is just a means to form opinion on big issues. Valieva=drugcheat=Russian=Putin=Ukraine crisis.
The same crap went on in ballet companies when My brother was in ABT. When Baryshnikov took over, all the legendary adult ballerinas were forced out and all the lead roles went to teen baby ballerinas. They couldn’t act their way out of a bag. AND there was the casting couch. If you injured, you were called “ injury prone” and were not given roles.
"I did not see people mad at me on twitter" - of cause she did not. There was a ton of criticism and she was deleting these twits and banning people expressing this criticism non stop. And she totally deserved this criticism. Her attack on Davis/Smolkin was total disgrace.
I'm still reeling from Christine's display of profound lack of professionalism, sensitivity and barely disguised xenophobia at the Olympic games. Seeing her foam at the mouth with excitement and anticipation of 'prey' as Valieva scandal unfolded and fanning that scandal with all her resources was disturbing and unbearable to watch, without the slightest display of some basic human compassion for the 15yo athlete who found herself in a horrific situation. I lost all regard and respect for Christine and her work - a 63yo adult who can seemingly rejoice at the plight of a 15yo (and an astonishingly talented 15yo at that) and commodify it for click bait and interview opportunities. I felt utterly distressed by her behavior (including that awful 'interview' with Gleb and Diana after their skate, which was quite frankly beyond disturbing).
I take into account that Valieva is fifteen and from a country that engages in state sponsored doping. I don't think she has bad character or deserves draconian penalty. However, there's an uncomfortable truth that she probably knew she was taking PEDs, and of course journalists are going to uncover this kind of scandal. Russia SHOULD be exposed for this. Unfortunately, it involves a teenage girl, but this is the consequence when you're doing this in a women's competition on the world stage. Don't get mad at Christine Brennan. Get mad at her coaches, parents, and federation for allowing a teenager to dope and then throwing her to the wolves.
omg Dave I am so grateful that you asked Christine about pushing Diana Davis to answer in English. I wish she had just apologized about her bullying behavior :| her response was just plain defensive
I think you might need to rethink what “bullying” is. A journalist asking an athlete a question at a public event isn’t bully. It’s journalism. Get over it!
Guuuuurl.... She's good. But she knows how good she is. She would make a great lawyer. I like her but I'm also like:" I see you. I respect your hustle but....I see you"
If the skater is qualified to skate in the Olympics, then they should follow the SAME rules and standards as those skaters above 26 years of age. Period. They cannot have additional protection from the rules due to their age of below 16 years of age. That is the problem.
True. The CAS treated her differently because they said that as a protected person she would probably only get a reprimand. But what about skaters like Jessica Calalang who are completely exonerated after a long suspension?
I think we SHOULD bring back school figures, not for competitions, but for testing before graduating from one level to another. In order to get out of novice you have to be able to do such-and-such, in order to get out of junior you have to be able to do this-and-that,
You can still test and even compete figures in some countries -- they're gaining a lot of popularity with adult skaters in particular. Even former top skaters like Mao Asada have done and still do figures for fun and to hone their skills. Google "world fancy figures" and you'll see some amazing stuff. Skaters get really creative with it. I doubt we'll see them brought back for mainstream testing, though.
Christine hits the nail on the head (29.00- 31.00) why were the Russians in any Olympics after 2014 Sochi in the first place? They should have been banned- the soft approach of no Russian flag or Anthem a JOKE.
Once again thanks Dave for this interview. I used to have so much respect for Christine but after how harsh she was to Vincent and Karen during the team event and the tweet she put out my opinion of her has changed. Then she blocked me after I said under her tweet 'this not it' so while she says people on Twitter don't bother her that's not true. I guess she can dish criticism but can't take it.
I guess Christine doesn’t know you can simply mute people you don’t want to hear from. Or maybe she enjoys the power of blocking people for the “crime” of disagreeing with her. I think blocking should only be for personal insults or crude or abusive language. She is shooting herself in the foot as a writer who is deliberately limiting her audience.
Karen and Vincent choked as they usually do and it’s hard for me to accept that their performances are worthy of a silver medal. If Christine blocked those who disagreed with her assessment, that’s her choice. Sometimes blocking a person is done because of the way something is said, rather than what was said.
Your point @1:35:44 is already starting. Angelina Turenko, who coached Sakhanovich (Post-AoP) and Gubanova (before Rukavicin), is based in Italy now. She's part of the Young Goose Academy that's training Kurakova and Grassl. This was before the war happened so she really lucked out on this move. She definitely looks happier in Italy too when comparing how she was in Russia.
Figures are still mandatory in roller skating! You cannot compete in most higher level events if you have not passed your figures test. It’s kinda of a right of passage when you are allowed to stop practicing figures, it means you’ve achieved a high enough level in skating skills that younger skaters have not achieved yet. Really wish figure skating would bring it back, just to practice.
Hello Dave and Jonathon. It's Lent. So i have to restrain myself from expressing too many negative thoughts against Eteri Tutberidze and how she has revolutionized ladies figure skating. While at the same time, tarnished it. For a long time, i gave up watching figure skating. Especially after Yuna Kim was passed over for Olympic Gold over that Russian skater. Whose name at the moment escapes me. Then, Three A of Russia (A Scherbakova, A Kostornaya and A Trusova) burst upon the scene and lured so many new and old fans to take notice of their phenomenal skating skills. In less than three years since they've all entered the ladies professional division, things have only become chaotic. Not since the Nancy Kerrigan/Tonya Harding tragedy has the field of ladies figure skating become so consumed with a succession of controversy. Primarily with the most recent Olympic doping scandal involving 15 year old Russian skating phenom, Kamila Valieva. Now the recent Russian invasion of Ukraine is only capitalizing upon tarnishing the field of ladies figure skating even further. You guys are always on point in expressing such intricate details concerning the endless saga of today's figure skating arena. And most especially you Dave. You've worked so hard to keep the fans informed. Especially with all of the receipts at hand in exposing what both the Russian Federation of Skating and the ISU is so eager to conceal!
First of all the judging needs to be improved, judges are the biggest enablers of bad technique and favouritism. Not only of the russians but also of us skaters and sellected darlings. Unless judging can be improved no other measures will help.
Is there any possibility that the more knowledgable fans would be invited to meetings with the judging sections of the various federations, and of the ISU? After all, where will the sport be if all the fans lose interest?
World championship Without Russian and Chinese players, it would be a clean tournament at once. No doping daughter, no weird judges I think this is what the international convention should be like Especially for women's singles, it was becoming a jumping tournament where you could just jump on difficult jumps. Personally, it was a spectacular tournament where beautiful skating was evaluated like this tournament.
Thank you for your outstanding ongoing coverage! And thank you for the donation links. The horrific pictures on the front page of the online NYT propel us to do something to help all Ukrainians.
I think Christine is wrong here saying that if the age requirement is raise dthen the junior competition will be where the best athletes are. If the crux of the attention is no longer on ppl who can do these incredible quads then at the JUNIOR level they will not push them to achieve these quads and then they can spend their time concentrating on actual skating skills interpretations, chreography etc. or heck, maybe concentrating on good habits for athletes to make their career last longer than one olympic cycle IF THAT! Maybe for one or two seasons the juniors will have all the quads but that's b/c they already have them, once they are no longer as desired by the senior women's division then the juniors will follow imo.
That may happen in theory, however, they are counting on the fact that Russia likes to be known to be dominate in many ways, including the athletic aspects of the sport. One issue is that they are trying to disprove all of the allegations of the world. Another issue is the quads still get the points. So they will try their hand at creating athletes who can do quads for longer, by whatever means possible. Right now, Eteri’s formula is that she focuses on pretty, athletic girls who will be between 15-17 at the Olympics. She knows she can stave off puberty for that long with Lupron and weight restrictions. Look at how Alina and Zhenya matured after the last Olympics. It was practically a perfectly executed plan. Both girls grew immediately thereafter. They will just change their formula up. The way to change this is to focus on balancing the points in favor of weighting spins, footwork and components higher and above that of quads. Another way would be to separate out jumps in their own comp and figure skating would be balanced. I mean gymnastics is more balanced but people can do trampoline or tumbling and focus on just that.
I think that raising the age (to let's say 17) alone isn't gonna help much but if you combine that with banning quads on the junior level for both junior men and junior women, then we're talking. That would promote longevity in a skater's career.
@@YannisGoedermans this!! talking about raising the age limit must be a multiprong approach, including maybe (or maybe not) adjusting junior ages, definitely banning quads at that level, and just give these young people time to develop, take time to learn proper jump technique that would last through puberty and enforce healthier habits thus longevity. And finally, have full responsibility and consequences for your action, no more protected minors at senior level.
I actuality liked the school figures and always wished they emphasized it more on the media when they did have it. It's where the term "figure skating" came from.
Thanks for everything Dave and Jonathan!!! But could you please give us a quick history lesson on the Salt Lake scandal?😅 I honestly don’t know anything about it and I really like your journalism and message delivering style
I recall when they got rid of figures and eventually turned to IJS, the step sequence became different. I much prefer Scott Hamilton’s footwork than these skaters’ step sequence looking like they are nearly falling all over the place with their deep edges and high and lows. I’m sure I’m not describing this right, as a no skater, but perhaps the current step sequence incorporated the Figures with the deep edges? Why did the step sequence footwork change so much with the IJS?
Hi I found your channel right around when the Olympics was happening and I'm so glad I did. Now I'm hooked! Thank you for knowledge, dedication and commitment!
Instead of the press talking about what they think about the age for women's figure skating I think you need a nice board of orthopedists and studies of what happens to a young women's body when they do lots of difficult jumps.
I will be working on timestamps, it will be sporadic for me as I’m a bit busy today, I will as always do my best to get it done asap. If anybody wants to add anything below my comment please go ahead! I have no issues with that. Have a great Sunday everyone
Jack McFarland and Grace Adler agree. "Michelle Kwan???? Godess on ice?!" "Way better than that little witch; Tara Lipinski" "Almost as good as Bonaly!" Who? "BONALY. SURYA BONALY!" "OH my god, THE BEST!" Who is Surya Bonaly? "She's black" "She's French" "She does illegal backflips and wears blue eyeshadow. "She scares me. I crave her" Will and Grace: best show, ever.
How possible that Tara won the Olympics gold with her overrated technique and her Disney Cartoon program ? Michelle skated like an angel, Tara skated like Peter Pan.
They should bring back compulsory spirals.That's how you sort out the wheat from chaff technically. And it means less time for quads. I think lazy in Eteri's camp means that skater is now an adult and wants some autonomy. I think in Mie Hamada's camp, she had such a good and diligent student in Satoko, who had been with her since she arrived in Japan as a youngster, that someone like Marin, who did struggle with focusing and had other interests, was considered lazy in comparison. Plus I think the underscoring when she hit seniors really would have disheartened her. I do think Mie does have some care for her students, focuses on their individual strengths and is genuinely happy for them when they succeed, even if she is old school in her methods and they need to be updated. I have never found her as offensive as Eteri.
Maybe if spirals stew back, Eteri’s girls won’t incorporate so many transitions that are a blur. Hold your positions for more than a second. They we can appreciate some great positions.
I have some friends in Ukraine and they are not getting any humanitarian aid, they say some of products aree being sold in the shops for higher price then it used to be before the conflict. If you want to donate, donate to some well known organizations like Red Cross, at least they will make sure that the help will reach out ordinary people.
I legitimately want answers to this because I feel like people complain about it but don't elaborate on what to do about it... ...how do you fairly judge PCS??... ...In all seriousness...Art is subjective...what appeals to one person may or may not the other...so how do you "accurately" judge artistry??...you can't just say "well it's the feeling you got" or "well it's the emotion and movement"...that is at its basis subjectice...I'm not trying to defend Trusova...I'm speaking on a general basis between skater A and skater B... ...also...if it is simply teaching the technique at an early age...why aren't they??...why aren't coaches teaching the correct techniques that meet FS fan expectations then??....if it is that simple then all this tells me is that women can't "correctly" land quads....
Thank you guys for this great interview with Christine-THE journalist for figure skating. Dave, you have just been knocking the ball out of the park with these great videos. Thank you for your hard work!👍❤️😻
So happy to hear from Christine and thanks for the reminder about her book..just purchased it on Amazon! This was a very informative discussion! Old mom and I have donated to UN Refugee and World Central Kitchen, so thankful of this outpouring of humanity to the Ukrainian people.
"Facts are facts." Quote of the year - at a time when facts are an endangered species worldwide. Fascinating to hear the story behind the story via Christine.
Was really fascinating to hear the behind the scenes story for journalists covering such a sensitive breaking story. Thank you again Dave for all the nightly updates while events unfolded. Incredible work.
It would be hard for any organistion to investigate Eteri now, sadly. I wonder if investigations were started while the entourage was in Beijing - I mean, anyone looked at their medical notes, medicine cabinets or bins? But maybe WADA will put in more measures like hair samples and specific rules regarding people around protected athletes. Perhaps one consequence could be Russian athletes should have an international doctor at international competitions overseeing them medically. Quite frankly, Dr Shvetsky should be held responsible for the positive test if he's on paper as Kamila's doctor, and not Kamila. Certainly RUSADA as well for not following process - IOC should sue the heck out of them for the damage to the Olys.
Raising the age limit would encourage coaches to train athletes in a more sustainable way, with technique that will last and more focus on artistry. Even Russia will have to adjust their technique if they want to keep being successful in senior competitions. Yes, there is a junior craze (especially in Russia) but seniors is still where more money is made due to sposorships, shows and above all else the Olympics (which is exclusive to seniors and very important to Russia). Besides that, with the precedent the new ruling in the Valieva-doping case has set, juniors have basically been given a free pass for doping. This is reason enough to raise the age to 18 to ensure clean competitions!
Good luck with a hope of a special medal ceremony for the team event by the IOC! When Canadian cross country skier Beckie Scott finally was granted her gold medal in the 5 km pursuit in Salt Lake after the 2 Russian skiers who finished ahead of her were eventually disqualified for doping (after two and a half years of courtroom wrangling and foot-dragging) she finally received her gold medal in a Vancouver art gallery.
Jonathan I loved what you said about fans who just cheer for skaters bc they have the same nationality as well as being less and less interested in the women's field. I feel that so much, caught myself nodding heavily...
The (alphabet soup) IOC, ISU, WADA can fix the issues in figure skating regarding age and doping. They already have protocols for issues but choose not to use them. The judging is a joke. They lack the back bone to fix anything. They talk and talk. Nothing more.
You hit the nail on the head about the attitude of many Russian fans. They often seem to be fans of Russia and not true fans of the sport or what is good for the sport. They take any criticism of Russian skaters as being jealous of or hating Russia. They deflect and use what about ism. It’s really quite sad that they are unable to see beyond flags.
No attention to the ITA reports of other athletes to doping : On 2-9-22, Hossen Shemsaki, Iranian athlete failed test. On 2-16-22, Valentyna Kaminska, Ukranian athlete failed test. On 2-17-22, Lidiia Hunko, Ukranian athlete failed test. On 2-22-22, Laura Barquero, Spanish athlete failed test. These were all traced with steroid violations. The ITA reported that they were given over 5400 testing recommendations, and 80% of these recommendations were implemented. 95% of all of the athletes were tested prior to and during the games. ROC athletes were tested the most.
Exactly I dont think any Russian athlete tested positive at the games kamila only tested positive months before which her case is still extremely suspicious but people jumped and attacked kamila A 15 year old
Christine brennan is ridiculous this woman was having a go on Twitter about kamila valieva (a 15 year old) because of the fact that her head was down etc during the Olympics. The girl was being attacked from every side of the world at 15 for something which is her coaches fault and her mental health is clearly ruined and you had christine brennan saying shes not a real winner and mariah is because of of the fact kamila wasnt feeling great
BEST EP! Smartest, most logic based, most engaging and relevant conversation on figure skating I've ever heard about the state of the sport. Must watch. Christine is legit. No doubt. Thanks Dave and Jonathan for letting her speak and for guiding the conversation so perfectly.
I honestly could have listened to the 3 of you discuss everything for days!! Thankyou for having Christine Brennan & Thankyou for all your hardwork! Excellent episode!!
Great show and I saw a much more rounded and accurate picture of Christine than I had previously been fed from twitter and I found myself agreeing with the majority of the things she said which surprised me!
When Dave mentions Simone’s triple double and then Jonathan stated that he did not realize Simone Biles and Mariah Bell had the same content- I almost fell out of my chair!!! 😭😭😭🤣
I think the majority of audience care about number of turns in jumps as well as artistry. Changing the minimal age to17-18 is a must now. In terms of potential cheating on birth year, “bone mineral density test” with IOC approved medical machinery and a range of “a minimum density threshold” to a maximum density ceiling can be a requirement (not an option). Combined with athletes’ official birth info, the elimination or diminution of potential cheating can be achieved. I did it once, it was just like a CT scan, lying there for a few seconds and done. And missing Russian pairs is truly a sad thing. But given the situation, I direct my support to Alexa and Brandon. Hope they will do really really well.
I kind of agree with age restriction I feel we’re putting to much pressure on young bodies. But I’m an outsider with no care if I ever see a woman ever do a quad again With mental health being a huge talkin point in sports today I think it honestly would help the sport to have at least bump it up a year to 16 like gymnast. Edit is school figures like compulsories ?
Russia will always try to go around or skirt the lines of the rules. They think it’s cool to tip the scale in their favor. They have a saying “if you don’t get caught your not a thief” or something like that. It’s not cheating if you don’t get caught is the attitude they have in their culture. It’s probably left over from so many big wars they have fought & had enormous losses, & the old USSR system. Putin has been successful in keeping Russia mentally still under the past Soviet Union way of thinking or viewing the world. It’s the same with strength. You must be strong for you country. Your goals are to win for the country vs for yourself. Now I’m not saying that a Russian person is not trustworthy. It’s more like a global view of getting away with tipping the scale. Doping is not looked down on so much in Russia. That & the fact that the propaganda will convince people it’s a conspiracy from the West. RUSADA should be called “Fox guarding the hen house”. What a joke that is. I had a girlfriend from Sochi & let me tell you, I learned a lot about Russia, the Russian culture & the slightly slanted way of viewing the world they have. She’s an amazing person & we’re still friends. People are people, until you get a lot of them from the same place together. That’s when you notice cultural differences. It sucks that we won’t have Kamila or Anna skating in the west anytime soon. Kamila is unbelievable of course & Anna is really a beautiful skater & performer. There’s still a lot of amazing skaters to see so we’ll just have to support the FS athletes & see them at the Stars on Ice shows. I hope the war in Ukraine is over soon most of all because of the people of Ukraine. I’m not going to watch anything with Russian athletes competing. That’s one way to support Ukraine all though it’s not much & they need so much more help, so do whatever ever you can to support ending this disgusting war of Putins choosing. 🤞❤️✌🏻🇺🇦
Is there a time limit for switching country affiliation? In gymnastics, I believe it’s two years you have to wait between your final competitive representation for one country, before you put on the tracksuit of another. I may be wrong on that time, but wondering if there is a similar limit in figure skating.
I think it will be good for the sport to have a world championships without Russia, particularly in the ladies event. One country dominating through the use of doping & corrupt judging is not good for the long term health of the sport. If the sport dies in all of the other countries, there will be no more use for world championships or Olympics. Like you said, a world medal for Korea could do fantastic things in that country for the sport. And honestly, if you have to do things like doping & buying the judges to win, you really aren’t the best to begin with.
Dave, you are showing only one side of the problem. Out of russian atheletes, who would want to leave Russia now, when Western society had an explosion of russophobia, even Gergiev had to leave his post in Munich Philarmonic. Not a lot of people would want to be treated like this. For Annabel it may be easier as she is French born, so this could definetely help her even if she decides to change federation.
I saw Plushenko comments in sports ru . I did scroll down on the comments and people are really against of this war. They did make fun of him for the comments.
I love your show. the global news are so disheartening and everything is a lot, especially here in europe. the final bit of just you and Jonathan talking about figure skating made me so calm and relaxed (even though the figure skating world is mostly a dumpster fire too). It was the most at peace I've felt all week. thank you!
Interesting thoughts around the 2:27:00 Mark. I watch a lot of sports and this issue has been highlighted in athletics as well. Kenyan and Ethiopian athletes not being able to qualify in nationals, so they decide to run for Turkey or, Doha; countries that have been playing fast and loose with doping and out of competition testing. The current Vasilieva-crisis bugs me because the majority of money that is made within the ISU is due to the popularity of figureskating. It directly affects other sports within the ISU. I'm really into longtrack speedskating. If sponsors were to lose faith in the ISU, because of the figureskating brouhaha; it would mean a huge loss in funding for speedskaters and they can barely make a living as it is. Russian speedskaters have also had doping scandals but since it is a small sport; it doesn't get that much attention. But the same damn thing is happening in that sport as well. Pavel Kulishnikov was caught doping as a junior. But instead of outright banning him; RUSADA spun a a story about a 'unique talent who made a mistake as a minor'. Two years into is seniority, he was caught with meldonium and the usual excuses were used to clear his name. Meanwhile, another skater was vilified by RUSADA as a deflector shield. Denis Yuskov. He was very talented and was once caught with marijuana when he was a kid and banned by RUSADA(subsequently reinstated by Kosta Poltavets, who coached in the west)Thing is;Yuskov isn't ethically Russian. He is Moldovan. And rather than banning an 'actual' Russian for taking performance enhancing drugs; RUSADA decided that Yuskov was the one to blame- eventhough he had tested negative throughout his senior career. But Kulishnikov was pardoned over and over again by RUSADA, eventhough he was doping. But he's not Moldovan. Get your shit together, figureskaters; this doping bullcrap is affecting other sports as well.
Timestamps in progress:
0:00 Introduction
Timestamps continued below I guess:
0:40 Donate to Ukraine
1:18:57 Dave and Jonathan only
1:19:21 reminder to please donate to Ukraine
1:19:57 news on Viktor Petrenko
1:20:28 Dave and Jonathan’s take on world championship (should it continue or not)
1:22:59 how this world championship can be antidote on this open secret on Russia doping
1:24:15 russia suppose to give WADA data
1:25:35 Jonathan applauding on Dave’s as the blade turn (yay to u Dave!)
1:27:42 skaters changing countries
1:33:01 Nikolai said Annabelle Morozov has a new partner (Devid Naryzhnyy)
1:34:40 how long Russian will be ban for (leads to 1:35:17 how FS funding would be impacted during this ban)
1:38:40 Kostornia leaving/kick out from Eteri
1:45:02 skating shows (how some invite skaters from other countries and some are not)
1:46:50 world 2022 may open opportunities for other skaters to medal
@@shomaunofan8486 omg you’re back thank you
@@shantarakelian1998 lol Yep I’m back:) had to take a break :)
I'm in Ukraine now. I don't know, what will happen tomorrow, but I hope to see Worlds and my favorite skaters.
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Sending love and light to you and your beautiful country. 🇺🇦💙🙏💛🇺🇦
🇺🇦💖 Praying for you and Ukraine
Keeping a good thought for you and your country.
Sending nothing but love for you and Ukraine
I don't totally agree with Christine when she says "we want the best athletes at the Olympics". I would say "we want the best *healthy, clean* athletes at the Olympics". I think Jonathan's take is the more accurate one. I do agree with her though that the judging being done fairly is a far bigger issue. It's not just the PCS though - the GOEs are wildly inaccurate too.
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I wish the GOE was approached like it is in gymnastics… if it’s done well, no deductions, but deduct for flaws.
I think the age restriction is still an issue. Yes they might jump more quads in juniors if the age limit was raised, but they won’t be more complete skaters, and therefore not the best.
@@lindaallison5338 I agree, but I think that could be fixed with correct scoring. If they aren't mature skaters, and their jumps aren't actually that great, they shouldn't get marked as if they are.
@@Rachel-rs7jn 100%
One of the greatest moments in US figure skating history was when Rudy Galindo won Nationals🏆🥇🏆
I remember watching that live on TV. It was an amazing moment in sport's that still gives me goosebumps 👍
That was just one of the greatest in all of figure skating. The crowd and noise in the arena was just insane. And Rudy's reaction.
@@sallydaniel1023 It brought me to tears!
@@rajs7876 It was wonderful! I was so happy for him😊
@@sallydaniel1023 Same here!
I completely agree with Jonathan! As the Blade Turns is some of the best journalism out there. Thank you, Dave, for your unwavering commitment to the truth.
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This is a great conversation, but I found myself screaming "no!" over and over again when Christine was talking about the age and how raising it would make the "best athletes in the world" compete at junior worlds rather than Olympics. I'm sorry but landing 3As and quads of dubious quality and horrendous technique does not constitute "the best athletes in the world". How about their skating skills? Actual proper jumping technique with no prerotation? What about artistry? That's a really really bad take IMO. We need the age raised precisely so that we can stop calling jumping beans with no actual skating quality or artistry "the best in the world". Ugh, that one really made me angry.
The exact same thoughts here
The best skaters in the world “are” below 18 years old. Sorry if that triggers you. You act as if skaters like Mariah bell ( who jumps on an inside edge triple lutz) , Kaori sakamoto ( ditto), Karen Chen ( chronic underrotations) or any of the “mature” women have that much better technique to go along with their “artistry.” Just no. Mao Asada famously reworked her technique FOR 4 YEARS and didn’t improve much at all.
Doping aside, Kamila was the best skater in the world at 15. Her weaknesses ( pre-rotated toe jumps) don’t make her worse than any skater right now. She has great musicality, the best free leg of all time, some of the fastest and most flexible spins, etc. Her quad jumps have the height of men’s jumps with beautiful arm position. Anyone who says otherwise is just a hater.
I agree she should be penalized for doping but not because she actually doped but because it’s against the rules.
same here...we want artistry, as well as jumps, no more quadfests and doping prodigies...russia needs to be banned not only because of the war, but also for the systemic doping.
@@jamesyu5212 dude, do you understand what artistry means???...I would always look a Mariah performing Chicago, Kaori performing Amelie, or Karen Chen, than a quadfest with trusova, or "bolero" with that doping prodigy...she should be banned for at least 2 years because she doped, lied about it (grandpa burped...LOL) and also because russia continues with systemic doping, and she's part of that scheme. No more 15yo and 16yo...we want more mature figure skaters who could interpret music and not dopped russian jumpers...
@Donny Hathaway camila also has a cheaters technique
Not sure why it’s hard for Christine to understand that provoking Nathan and Vincent to criticize the CCP endangers their relatives in China? She will get her soundbite but the people in question will have to deal with the wrath of their government. She knew this and yet she pressed for answers (that were already given to her)
Disagree with how Christine said that if we impose age restriction, we won't have the "best" skaters at the Olympics and that it's Jr. Worlds that would have those "best" skaters since they'll be jumping quads. She's echoing the problematic notion that doing "quads" = best skaters (there's also the fact that those "quads" done by girls are really fake quads - i.e., very much prerotated, accomplished more by spinning rather than jumping, toe jumps are done with full blade assist - so you can't even call those girls excellent technicians). Um hello, there's also PCS - which isn't scored accurately. There's more to skating than quad jumps, whether they be real or fake.
P.S. Am aware that the problematic jump technique is done by boys too. The issue is just more common in girls since they can stay much smaller compared to boys.
Having the best skaters is ideal but all skaters must to be held accountable for doping regardless of age - this loophole must be closed.
then you should also hold those responsible who pretend to have diseases in order to legally get banned medicines. in 2015 over 1300 applications from us athletes only needed medication for diseases that would have been better started at the paralympics.
When Christine speaks about Russian media, I wish she’d acknowledge that the lack of watchdog journalists is a direct result of the government’s crackdown on that type of journalism, not some inherent failing of Russian media. I would assume she doesn’t mean to demean Russian journalists and outlets who’ve been silenced, but her imprecise wording, combined with her tone, kind of makes her comments come across as bluntly nationalistic.
Well put and an unsurprising weakness of hers tbh.
Moreover, it’s nonsensical triumphalism when one considers that American mainstream media is just as blatant propaganda as Russian state controlled media - the only difference is that the oligarchy and ruling class that controls the media has been privatized in a different way.
@@QQ-wl6yt I get what you’re saying and partly agree with the sentiment. Functionally, though, there’s an important difference in that journalists who don’t toe the party/corporate line get fired, rather than sent to prison camps, poisoned by the state, etc. They can still express their views openly on social media and work as independent journalists without risking their or their families’ lives. Yes, the American media ecosystem has many problems, but they’re (currently) not equivalent to the problems with the Russian media ecosystem.
I think her interview with Gleb Smolkin and Diana Davis after their rhythm dance was a staggering display of her nationalism that frankly bordered on xenophobia (let alone ableism) and was very disturbing and embarrassing to watch. Perhaps her journalism had quality and professionalism in the past, but now it's hard to see her relevance in the field. It seemed that she was ferociously grabbing onto the Valieva case to maintain her relevance and presence in the sports journalism world. I found it repulsive.
She is speaking with an agenda and it takes away from the real problem and solution. By all means; call out Tutberidze and her team but don't use it as a platform to form opinions. Especially concerning the current events. Wars are currently used as fodder for public opinion on all levels. Sports might seem insignificant but it is definitely political. Christine is highlighting the political: Russians=bad. West=good. Public opinion dictates world politics. I might sound a bit tinfoil-hat, but I believe that any media is just a means to form opinion on big issues. Valieva=drugcheat=Russian=Putin=Ukraine crisis.
The same crap went on in ballet companies when My brother was in ABT. When Baryshnikov took over, all the legendary adult ballerinas were forced out and all the lead roles went to teen baby ballerinas. They couldn’t act their way out of a bag. AND there was the casting couch. If you injured, you were called “ injury prone” and were not given roles.
Baryshnikov played himself in SATC. He was only concerned about his own personal achievements.
@@roddo1955 what is SATC?
@@TheDivayenta Sex and the City. He played Carrie's boyfriend😉
"I did not see people mad at me on twitter" - of cause she did not. There was a ton of criticism and she was deleting these twits and banning people expressing this criticism non stop. And she totally deserved this criticism. Her attack on Davis/Smolkin was total disgrace.
Defiantly not a fan of eteris daughter and her boy but true Christie was so out of place on this one
I'm still reeling from Christine's display of profound lack of professionalism, sensitivity and barely disguised xenophobia at the Olympic games. Seeing her foam at the mouth with excitement and anticipation of 'prey' as Valieva scandal unfolded and fanning that scandal with all her resources was disturbing and unbearable to watch, without the slightest display of some basic human compassion for the 15yo athlete who found herself in a horrific situation. I lost all regard and respect for Christine and her work - a 63yo adult who can seemingly rejoice at the plight of a 15yo (and an astonishingly talented 15yo at that) and commodify it for click bait and interview opportunities. I felt utterly distressed by her behavior (including that awful 'interview' with Gleb and Diana after their skate, which was quite frankly beyond disturbing).
I take into account that Valieva is fifteen and from a country that engages in state sponsored doping. I don't think she has bad character or deserves draconian penalty. However, there's an uncomfortable truth that she probably knew she was taking PEDs, and of course journalists are going to uncover this kind of scandal. Russia SHOULD be exposed for this. Unfortunately, it involves a teenage girl, but this is the consequence when you're doing this in a women's competition on the world stage. Don't get mad at Christine Brennan. Get mad at her coaches, parents, and federation for allowing a teenager to dope and then throwing her to the wolves.
Christine's empathy is amputated. just apologize! but no. her ego wouldnt let her
It's just part of what makes Christine Brennan, Christine Brennan!
Right???
I want the age to go up. I'd rather have "less than best skating" than state-sponsored child abuse.
omg Dave I am so grateful that you asked Christine about pushing Diana Davis to answer in English. I wish she had just apologized about her bullying behavior :| her response was just plain defensive
I believe it is Diana who is known to be a freak because she was born with hearing and coordination problems. She is always deaf.
Glad you went there with Christine on Diana Davis..sometimes just admitting a mistake is all that should be said
@EB18 hearing disability aside, the issue was Christine presuming Diana understands/speaks English
I think you might need to rethink what “bullying” is. A journalist asking an athlete a question at a public event isn’t bully. It’s journalism. Get over it!
No one loves Christine more than Christine.:)
Haha. A bit long winded too. Just the facts ma’am, just the facts. But a great journalist and writer. Her books were amazing.
Loves the sound of her own voice.
nobody likes christine, she is ridiculous and mediocre
Guuuuurl....
She's good. But she knows how good she is. She would make a great lawyer.
I like her but I'm also like:" I see you. I respect your hustle but....I see you"
Dave you really REALLY need to write a book. I think writing a book about the crossover of Skating with Russian polictics would be amazing.
I would love to!
@@TheSkatingLesson then do it. Life is short
Also (paraphrasing) Christine said to Diana: but she speaks English right? She’s an American.
She really tried to downplay her cheap shots.
Oh yes she did. Her innocent “what?” act tells you she thinks the audience are idiots.
If the skater is qualified to skate in the Olympics, then they should follow the SAME rules and standards as those skaters above 26 years of age. Period. They cannot have additional protection from the rules due to their age of below 16 years of age. That is the problem.
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True. The CAS treated her differently because they said that as a protected person she would probably only get a reprimand. But what about skaters like Jessica Calalang who are completely exonerated after a long suspension?
Protected person is supposed to mean for privacy not for getting away with doping. She better be disqualified or it sets such a dangerous precedent
I think we SHOULD bring back school figures, not for competitions, but for testing before graduating from one level to another. In order to get out of novice you have to be able to do such-and-such, in order to get out of junior you have to be able to do this-and-that,
agree totally.
Russians (and possibly others) will find a way to cheat those tests too
I'm old enough to have actually done figures. I didn't get that far. :)
@@slipperyhardandcold7740 one of my friend trained in the 70s and early 80s and she was as better at figures than jumps and spins.
You can still test and even compete figures in some countries -- they're gaining a lot of popularity with adult skaters in particular. Even former top skaters like Mao Asada have done and still do figures for fun and to hone their skills. Google "world fancy figures" and you'll see some amazing stuff. Skaters get really creative with it.
I doubt we'll see them brought back for mainstream testing, though.
Christine hits the nail on the head (29.00- 31.00) why were the Russians in any Olympics after 2014 Sochi in the first place? They should have been banned- the soft approach of no Russian flag or Anthem a JOKE.
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Once again thanks Dave for this interview. I used to have so much respect for Christine but after how harsh she was to Vincent and Karen during the team event and the tweet she put out my opinion of her has changed. Then she blocked me after I said under her tweet 'this not it' so while she says people on Twitter don't bother her that's not true. I guess she can dish criticism but can't take it.
Yeah that whole "I don't care what people think" reeked of the lady doth protest too much.
I guess Christine doesn’t know you can simply mute people you don’t want to hear from. Or maybe she enjoys the power of blocking people for the “crime” of disagreeing with her. I think blocking should only be for personal insults or crude or abusive language. She is shooting herself in the foot as a writer who is deliberately limiting her audience.
There was nothing wrong with pointing out Karen Chen and Vincent chocked at the Olympics.
@@truvada9340 Not every less than ideal performance is a choke.
Karen and Vincent choked as they usually do and it’s hard for me to accept that their performances are worthy of a silver medal. If Christine blocked those who disagreed with her assessment, that’s her choice. Sometimes blocking a person is done because of the way something is said, rather than what was said.
Your point @1:35:44 is already starting. Angelina Turenko, who coached Sakhanovich (Post-AoP) and Gubanova (before Rukavicin), is based in Italy now. She's part of the Young Goose Academy that's training Kurakova and Grassl. This was before the war happened so she really lucked out on this move. She definitely looks happier in Italy too when comparing how she was in Russia.
The ironic thing about 3As now, is the only one who landed it in the Olympics was Wakaba, who does it the old school way. Lol
And it looked like a million bucks. 💵
didn’t young you also land it?
@@yosily No, You had a downgrade and UR.
Figures are still mandatory in roller skating! You cannot compete in most higher level events if you have not passed your figures test. It’s kinda of a right of passage when you are allowed to stop practicing figures, it means you’ve achieved a high enough level in skating skills that younger skaters have not achieved yet. Really wish figure skating would bring it back, just to practice.
Hello Dave and Jonathon. It's Lent. So i have to restrain myself from expressing too many negative thoughts against Eteri Tutberidze and how she has revolutionized ladies figure skating. While at the same time, tarnished it. For a long time, i gave up watching figure skating. Especially after Yuna Kim was passed over for Olympic Gold over that Russian skater. Whose name at the moment escapes me. Then, Three A of Russia (A Scherbakova, A Kostornaya and A Trusova) burst upon the scene and lured so many new and old fans to take notice of their phenomenal skating skills.
In less than three years since they've all entered the ladies professional division, things have only become chaotic. Not since the Nancy Kerrigan/Tonya Harding tragedy has the field of ladies figure skating become so consumed with a succession of controversy. Primarily with the most recent Olympic doping scandal involving 15 year old Russian skating phenom, Kamila Valieva.
Now the recent Russian invasion of Ukraine is only capitalizing upon tarnishing the field of ladies figure skating even further. You guys are always on point in expressing such intricate details concerning the endless saga of today's figure skating arena. And most especially you Dave. You've worked so hard to keep the fans informed. Especially with all of the receipts at hand in exposing what both the Russian Federation of Skating and the ISU is so eager to conceal!
First of all the judging needs to be improved, judges are the biggest enablers of bad technique and favouritism. Not only of the russians but also of us skaters and sellected darlings. Unless judging can be improved no other measures will help.
Is there any possibility that the more knowledgable fans would be invited to meetings with the judging sections of the various federations, and of the ISU? After all, where will the sport be if all the fans lose interest?
I enjoyed the Christine insight into the story and her personal experience, but the fact she keeps dragging politics into this is quite annoying
Agree.
Politics, sadly, affect everything.
Yes, she certainly made sure to get her political digs in. Gross. I actually think Dave is way more professional than this woman.
Sports=politics
World championship
Without Russian and Chinese players, it would be a clean tournament at once.
No doping daughter, no weird judges
I think this is what the international convention should be like
Especially for women's singles, it was becoming a jumping tournament where you could just jump on difficult jumps.
Personally, it was a spectacular tournament where beautiful skating was evaluated like this tournament.
Russians and Chinese players arnt the only ones who dope stupid 😂
Thank you for your outstanding ongoing coverage! And thank you for the donation links. The horrific pictures on the front page of the online NYT propel us to do something to help all Ukrainians.
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the comment about Tara doing a great job at NBC was odd. Tara seems lovely as a human but her commentary has been hugely lacking lately.
I think Christine is wrong here saying that if the age requirement is raise dthen the junior competition will be where the best athletes are. If the crux of the attention is no longer on ppl who can do these incredible quads then at the JUNIOR level they will not push them to achieve these quads and then they can spend their time concentrating on actual skating skills interpretations, chreography etc. or heck, maybe concentrating on good habits for athletes to make their career last longer than one olympic cycle IF THAT! Maybe for one or two seasons the juniors will have all the quads but that's b/c they already have them, once they are no longer as desired by the senior women's division then the juniors will follow imo.
That may happen in theory, however, they are counting on the fact that Russia likes to be known to be dominate in many ways, including the athletic aspects of the sport. One issue is that they are trying to disprove all of the allegations of the world. Another issue is the quads still get the points. So they will try their hand at creating athletes who can do quads for longer, by whatever means possible. Right now, Eteri’s formula is that she focuses on pretty, athletic girls who will be between 15-17 at the Olympics. She knows she can stave off puberty for that long with Lupron and weight restrictions. Look at how Alina and Zhenya matured after the last Olympics. It was practically a perfectly executed plan. Both girls grew immediately thereafter. They will just change their formula up.
The way to change this is to focus on balancing the points in favor of weighting spins, footwork and components higher and above that of quads.
Another way would be to separate out jumps in their own comp and figure skating would be balanced. I mean gymnastics is more balanced but people can do trampoline or tumbling and focus on just that.
I agree.
I think that raising the age (to let's say 17) alone isn't gonna help much but if you combine that with banning quads on the junior level for both junior men and junior women, then we're talking. That would promote longevity in a skater's career.
@@YannisGoedermans this!! talking about raising the age limit must be a multiprong approach, including maybe (or maybe not) adjusting junior ages, definitely banning quads at that level, and just give these young people time to develop, take time to learn proper jump technique that would last through puberty and enforce healthier habits thus longevity. And finally, have full responsibility and consequences for your action, no more protected minors at senior level.
These last 3 years have been one big muscle relaxer needed.
Yes Kaori won!!! The thought of Russia being able to get any team medal is disturbing. Christine made me uncomfortable in that regard
Is anyone else getting a ‘no stream, tap to retry’ error? Was working fine for me about 10 minutes ago but now isn’t!
It is back on now!
CRYING when jonathan said “oh so simone biles does the same content as mariah bell” that was SO FUNNY
I actuality liked the school figures and always wished they emphasized it more on the media when they did have it. It's where the term "figure skating" came from.
Thanks for everything Dave and Jonathan!!! But could you please give us a quick history lesson on the Salt Lake scandal?😅 I honestly don’t know anything about it and I really like your journalism and message delivering style
There is a series on Netflix that will bring you up to speed in less than an hour
I recall when they got rid of figures and eventually turned to IJS, the step sequence became different. I much prefer Scott Hamilton’s footwork than these skaters’ step sequence looking like they are nearly falling all over the place with their deep edges and high and lows. I’m sure I’m not describing this right, as a no skater, but perhaps the current step sequence incorporated the Figures with the deep edges? Why did the step sequence footwork change so much with the IJS?
Bring back Phillipe Candeloro’s “ Three Musketeers “ program! 😆
hi christine from the 10's of thousands of people you block on twitter who call you out on your bs! hi hunny!!!! 😁
Another astute analysis by you both that weaves in all the elements - skating, politics, intrigue - and always love hearing from Christine Brennan.
Hi I found your channel right around when the Olympics was happening and I'm so glad I did. Now I'm hooked! Thank you for knowledge, dedication and commitment!
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Welcome to the crazy, wonderful world of skating!
Instead of the press talking about what they think about the age for women's figure skating I think you need a nice board of orthopedists and studies of what happens to a young women's body when they do lots of difficult jumps.
Yes! And have their puberty postponed!
Love me some more This and That. Thanks Dave and Jonathan. You always make my Sundays bright!
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Thank you TheSkatingLesson for another fascinating This and That. I'm buying Inside Edge for my holiday read this year.
I will be working on timestamps, it will be sporadic for me as I’m a bit busy today, I will as always do my best to get it done asap. If anybody wants to add anything below my comment please go ahead! I have no issues with that. Have a great Sunday everyone
Awesome thank you!
@@TheSkatingLesson not a problem
Just a WONDERFUL show, Dave and Jon. So great to continue to hear smart people talking about the sport we all love. ❤️❤️
Great to see Christine again. Also, I'm always up for a reminder that Michelle should have won in 1998!
Jack McFarland and Grace Adler agree.
"Michelle Kwan???? Godess on ice?!"
"Way better than that little witch; Tara Lipinski"
"Almost as good as Bonaly!"
Who?
"BONALY. SURYA BONALY!"
"OH my god, THE BEST!"
Who is Surya Bonaly?
"She's black"
"She's French"
"She does illegal backflips and wears blue eyeshadow.
"She scares me. I crave her"
Will and Grace: best show, ever.
How possible that Tara won the Olympics gold with her overrated technique and her Disney Cartoon program ? Michelle skated like an angel, Tara skated like Peter Pan.
They should have allowed the Team Comp Medal Ceremony. Give the athletes that once in a lifetime moment.
I agree. Better to get the medals at the time and if there needs to be adjustments later then deal with it.
They should bring back compulsory spirals.That's how you sort out the wheat from chaff technically. And it means less time for quads. I think lazy in Eteri's camp means that skater is now an adult and wants some autonomy.
I think in Mie Hamada's camp, she had such a good and diligent student in Satoko, who had been with her since she arrived in Japan as a youngster, that someone like Marin, who did struggle with focusing and had other interests, was considered lazy in comparison. Plus I think the underscoring when she hit seniors really would have disheartened her. I do think Mie does have some care for her students, focuses on their individual strengths and is genuinely happy for them when they succeed, even if she is old school in her methods and they need to be updated. I have never found her as offensive as Eteri.
Maybe if spirals stew back, Eteri’s girls won’t incorporate so many transitions that are a blur. Hold your positions for more than a second. They we can appreciate some great positions.
@@bettybleu12 I don't actually think some of her students can do spirals. They require speed and good edges
I LOVE this Video!!! Dave, Jonathan, Christine thank you so much for an AMAZING VIDEO:)
I have some friends in Ukraine and they are not getting any humanitarian aid, they say some of products aree being sold in the shops for higher price then it used to be before the conflict. If you want to donate, donate to some well known organizations like Red Cross, at least they will make sure that the help will reach out ordinary people.
I legitimately want answers to this because I feel like people complain about it but don't elaborate on what to do about it...
...how do you fairly judge PCS??...
...In all seriousness...Art is subjective...what appeals to one person may or may not the other...so how do you "accurately" judge artistry??...you can't just say "well it's the feeling you got" or "well it's the emotion and movement"...that is at its basis subjectice...I'm not trying to defend Trusova...I'm speaking on a general basis between skater A and skater B...
...also...if it is simply teaching the technique at an early age...why aren't they??...why aren't coaches teaching the correct techniques that meet FS fan expectations then??....if it is that simple then all this tells me is that women can't "correctly" land quads....
Thank you guys for this great interview with Christine-THE journalist for figure skating. Dave, you have just been knocking the ball out of the park with these great videos. Thank you for your hard work!👍❤️😻
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You guys should write a book together, "Outside Edge" would be a great name fot the sequel.
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So happy to hear from Christine and thanks for the reminder about her book..just purchased it on Amazon! This was a very informative discussion! Old mom and I have donated to UN Refugee and World Central Kitchen, so thankful of this outpouring of humanity to the Ukrainian people.
I was a journalist at the Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games. It was a great feeling, running down to the mixed zone from the tribune!
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"Facts are facts." Quote of the year - at a time when facts are an endangered species worldwide. Fascinating to hear the story behind the story via Christine.
You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.
actually, Alexandra Trusova and Anna Shcherbakova are both 17, and they are still very competitive.
Was really fascinating to hear the behind the scenes story for journalists covering such a sensitive breaking story. Thank you again Dave for all the nightly updates while events unfolded. Incredible work.
More to come.
It would be hard for any organistion to investigate Eteri now, sadly. I wonder if investigations were started while the entourage was in Beijing - I mean, anyone looked at their medical notes, medicine cabinets or bins?
But maybe WADA will put in more measures like hair samples and specific rules regarding people around protected athletes. Perhaps one consequence could be Russian athletes should have an international doctor at international competitions overseeing them medically. Quite frankly, Dr Shvetsky should be held responsible for the positive test if he's on paper as Kamila's doctor, and not Kamila. Certainly RUSADA as well for not following process - IOC should sue the heck out of them for the damage to the Olys.
Great interview guys. Love Christine idea of having a team medal ceremony for the ages.
The Russian gymnastics team has national compulsories that factored into those championships . Food for thought
THIS is the T&T I’ve been waiting for!!!!! Yes, please!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
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Raising the age limit would encourage coaches to train athletes in a more sustainable way, with technique that will last and more focus on artistry. Even Russia will have to adjust their technique if they want to keep being successful in senior competitions. Yes, there is a junior craze (especially in Russia) but seniors is still where more money is made due to sposorships, shows and above all else the Olympics (which is exclusive to seniors and very important to Russia). Besides that, with the precedent the new ruling in the Valieva-doping case has set, juniors have basically been given a free pass for doping. This is reason enough to raise the age to 18 to ensure clean competitions!
Good luck with a hope of a special medal ceremony for the team event by the IOC! When Canadian cross country skier Beckie Scott finally was granted her gold medal in the 5 km pursuit in Salt Lake after the 2 Russian skiers who finished ahead of her were eventually disqualified for doping (after two and a half years of courtroom wrangling and foot-dragging) she finally received her gold medal in a Vancouver art gallery.
Truly sad for all the medalists who had earned their medals.
Jonathan I loved what you said about fans who just cheer for skaters bc they have the same nationality as well as being less and less interested in the women's field. I feel that so much, caught myself nodding heavily...
Thank you, Dave and Jonathan. TSL and coffee on a rainy monday morning. Perfect combo.
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It's not "figure" skating anymore. It's all about tricks and jumps. Miss the good old days
It’s figure jumping with armography. Lots of waving about. Except, of course, the brilliant Jason Brown.
The (alphabet soup) IOC, ISU, WADA can fix the issues in figure skating regarding age and doping. They already have protocols for issues but choose not to use them. The judging is a joke. They lack the back bone to fix anything. They talk and talk. Nothing more.
You hit the nail on the head about the attitude of many Russian fans. They often seem to be fans of Russia and not true fans of the sport or what is good for the sport. They take any criticism of Russian skaters as being jealous of or hating Russia. They deflect and use what about ism. It’s really quite sad that they are unable to see beyond flags.
hypocrisy call
No attention to the ITA reports of other athletes to doping : On 2-9-22, Hossen Shemsaki, Iranian athlete failed test. On 2-16-22, Valentyna Kaminska, Ukranian athlete failed test. On 2-17-22, Lidiia Hunko, Ukranian athlete failed test. On 2-22-22, Laura Barquero, Spanish athlete failed test. These were all traced with steroid violations. The ITA reported that they were given over 5400 testing recommendations, and 80% of these recommendations were implemented. 95% of all of the athletes were tested prior to and during the games. ROC athletes were tested the most.
Exactly I dont think any Russian athlete tested positive at the games kamila only tested positive months before which her case is still extremely suspicious but people jumped and attacked kamila A 15 year old
Christine Brennan for US Figure Skating Hall of Fame for her journalism!
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Jonathan your Mariah Bell is some of your best content ever 😂
Christine brennan is ridiculous this woman was having a go on Twitter about kamila valieva (a 15 year old) because of the fact that her head was down etc during the Olympics. The girl was being attacked from every side of the world at 15 for something which is her coaches fault and her mental health is clearly ruined and you had christine brennan saying shes not a real winner and mariah is because of of the fact kamila wasnt feeling great
Not only that shes extremely xenephobic the way she treated diana Davis is disgusting
BEST EP! Smartest, most logic based, most engaging and relevant conversation on figure skating I've ever heard about the state of the sport. Must watch. Christine is legit. No doubt. Thanks Dave and Jonathan for letting her speak and for guiding the conversation so perfectly.
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1:38:37 aliona kostornaia
I honestly could have listened to the 3 of you discuss everything for days!! Thankyou for having Christine Brennan & Thankyou for all your hardwork! Excellent episode!!
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Thank you Dave and Jonathan, always look forward to your thoughtful discussions!
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That triple-double joke 💯
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Great show and I saw a much more rounded and accurate picture of Christine than I had previously been fed from twitter and I found myself agreeing with the majority of the things she said which surprised me!
Yasssss! Was refreshing and refreshing to see when this appeared, and wow, did not disappoint! Looking forward to hearing Christine's take.
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Thank you for support 🇺🇦!
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When Dave mentions Simone’s triple double and then Jonathan stated that he did not realize Simone Biles and Mariah Bell had the same content- I almost fell out of my chair!!! 😭😭😭🤣
Great interview 👍 One of your best videos!!! You all brought up a lot of great points that I've thought about for years 👏👏👏👏
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I think the majority of audience care about number of turns in jumps as well as artistry. Changing the minimal age to17-18 is a must now.
In terms of potential cheating on birth year, “bone mineral density test” with IOC approved medical machinery and a range of “a minimum density threshold” to a maximum density ceiling can be a requirement (not an option). Combined with athletes’ official birth info, the elimination or diminution of potential cheating can be achieved. I did it once, it was just like a CT scan, lying there for a few seconds and done.
And missing Russian pairs is truly a sad thing. But given the situation, I direct my support to Alexa and Brandon. Hope they will do really really well.
I kind of agree with age restriction I feel we’re putting to much pressure on young bodies. But I’m an outsider with no care if I ever see a woman ever do a quad again With mental health being a huge talkin point in sports today I think it honestly would help the sport to have at least bump it up a year to 16 like gymnast. Edit is school figures like compulsories ?
School Figures = Compulsories
And the “short program,” used to be called the technical program and at another time it was the compulsory program. But figures were compulsories.
For awhile, the Short Program was also called the Original Program. The Long Program was called Artistic Program as well.
Russia will always try to go around or skirt the lines of the rules. They think it’s cool to tip the scale in their favor. They have a saying “if you don’t get caught your not a thief” or something like that. It’s not cheating if you don’t get caught is the attitude they have in their culture. It’s probably left over from so many big wars they have fought & had enormous losses, & the old USSR system. Putin has been successful in keeping Russia mentally still under the past Soviet Union way of thinking or viewing the world. It’s the same with strength. You must be strong for you country. Your goals are to win for the country vs for yourself. Now I’m not saying that a Russian person is not trustworthy. It’s more like a global view of getting away with tipping the scale. Doping is not looked down on so much in Russia. That & the fact that the propaganda will convince people it’s a conspiracy from the West. RUSADA should be called “Fox guarding the hen house”. What a joke that is. I had a girlfriend from Sochi & let me tell you, I learned a lot about Russia, the Russian culture & the slightly slanted way of viewing the world they have. She’s an amazing person & we’re still friends. People are people, until you get a lot of them from the same place together. That’s when you notice cultural differences. It sucks that we won’t have Kamila or Anna skating in the west anytime soon. Kamila is unbelievable of course & Anna is really a beautiful skater & performer. There’s still a lot of amazing skaters to see so we’ll just have to support the FS athletes & see them at the Stars on Ice shows. I hope the war in Ukraine is over soon most of all because of the people of Ukraine. I’m not going to watch anything with Russian athletes competing. That’s one way to support Ukraine all though it’s not much & they need so much more help, so do whatever ever you can to support ending this disgusting war of Putins choosing. 🤞❤️✌🏻🇺🇦
Is there a time limit for switching country affiliation? In gymnastics, I believe it’s two years you have to wait between your final competitive representation for one country, before you put on the tracksuit of another. I may be wrong on that time, but wondering if there is a similar limit in figure skating.
Always a treat when these three have a chat. ❤️
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Sadly Christine will be disappointed her medal ceremony solution will not happen. More likely they'll get medals in the post a year later.
The IOC said once Valieva's case is concluded, they will organize "a dignified medal ceremony" to the athletes.
@@beatrizoliveira6336 yeah that’s not going to be resolved for a while.
It’s how she kept saying “Those little jumps” by Tara 😂😂
I mean she did have that fast spinning roller skating technique. It doesn’t translate well to the axel.
I hated it when she won over Kwan. And all that “ look at me!” screaming.
@@TheDivayenta her mouth was so wide like a Muppet 😂😂😂
@@Melissa-yr7fm it’s funny cuz it’s true 😂
I think it will be good for the sport to have a world championships without Russia, particularly in the ladies event. One country dominating through the use of doping & corrupt judging is not good for the long term health of the sport. If the sport dies in all of the other countries, there will be no more use for world championships or Olympics. Like you said, a world medal for Korea could do fantastic things in that country for the sport. And honestly, if you have to do things like doping & buying the judges to win, you really aren’t the best to begin with.
Dave, you are showing only one side of the problem. Out of russian atheletes, who would want to leave Russia now, when Western society had an explosion of russophobia, even Gergiev had to leave his post in Munich Philarmonic. Not a lot of people would want to be treated like this. For Annabel it may be easier as she is French born, so this could definetely help her even if she decides to change federation.
is anyone talking about the shameful, alibistic (Med) or absolutely horrifying (Plushenko) response of Russian FS community about the war in Ukraine?
I saw Plushenko comments in sports ru .
I did scroll down on the comments and people are really against of this war.
They did make fun of him for the comments.
On the next As The Blade Turns!
I love your show. the global news are so disheartening and everything is a lot, especially here in europe. the final bit of just you and Jonathan talking about figure skating made me so calm and relaxed (even though the figure skating world is mostly a dumpster fire too). It was the most at peace I've felt all week. thank you!
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Sorry, I couldn't catch that: what name does David say around 1h 35'?
Are you obsessed with Eteri, the best coach in the world?
Interesting thoughts around the 2:27:00 Mark. I watch a lot of sports and this issue has been highlighted in athletics as well. Kenyan and Ethiopian athletes not being able to qualify in nationals, so they decide to run for Turkey or, Doha; countries that have been playing fast and loose with doping and out of competition testing. The current Vasilieva-crisis bugs me because the majority of money that is made within the ISU is due to the popularity of figureskating. It directly affects other sports within the ISU. I'm really into longtrack speedskating. If sponsors were to lose faith in the ISU, because of the figureskating brouhaha; it would mean a huge loss in funding for speedskaters and they can barely make a living as it is. Russian speedskaters have also had doping scandals but since it is a small sport; it doesn't get that much attention. But the same damn thing is happening in that sport as well. Pavel Kulishnikov was caught doping as a junior. But instead of outright banning him; RUSADA spun a a story about a 'unique talent who made a mistake as a minor'. Two years into is seniority, he was caught with meldonium and the usual excuses were used to clear his name. Meanwhile, another skater was vilified by RUSADA as a deflector shield. Denis Yuskov. He was very talented and was once caught with marijuana when he was a kid and banned by RUSADA(subsequently reinstated by Kosta Poltavets, who coached in the west)Thing is;Yuskov isn't ethically Russian. He is Moldovan. And rather than banning an 'actual' Russian for taking performance enhancing drugs; RUSADA decided that Yuskov was the one to blame- eventhough he had tested negative throughout his senior career. But Kulishnikov was pardoned over and over again by RUSADA, eventhough he was doping. But he's not Moldovan. Get your shit together, figureskaters; this doping bullcrap is affecting other sports as well.