1848 Golden Spike Car - Great Western Steam Up
Vložit
- čas přidán 6. 08. 2022
- This week we are looking at one of America's most important railroad artifacts; the "Golden Spike Car" at the Nevada State Railroad Museum in Carson City.
This car transported Lealand Stanford and the golden and silver spikes to the "Wedding of the Rails" at Promontory Summit on May 10, 1869. Only two cars from the two trains that traveled to Promontory still exist, this and Central Pacific car No. 12, built in 1869 just for the event by Wason Manufacturing Co. in Springfield, Mass.
This is the car that carried Stanford, other Central Pacific officials, and the golden and silver spikes to the ceremony and was known as “The Commissioners’ Car.” And today is simply called Coach 17. It was built in the CP shops in Sacramento, which still exist, and is part of the California State Railroad Museum.
Origanally the car was Charles Crocker's private car but was then used by Stanford as an office car. It and a freight and baggage car were pulled by Central Pacific's locomotive the "Jupiter" to the event. A few years after Promontory, it was sold to Nevada’s Virginia and Truckee Railroad and in 1878 converted to a passenger car known as Coach 17. It was in use there until 1937 when the V&T sold much of its equipment to Hollywood film companies.
Coach 17 was used in a number of movies, including the 1924 John Ford film, “The Iron Horse,” a silent film telling the story of the building of the Transcontinental Railroad. Others included “Jesse James,” “Centennial Summer,” and the Elvis Presley movie “Love Me Tender.” In 1972, it was sold to Short Line Enterprises for continued movie service. It was used in one of Kenny Rogers’ “Gambler” movies and made its final Hollywood appearance in Clint Eastwood’s “Pale Rider.”
In 1988, Coach 17 was purchased by the State of Nevada.
NOW... there is a rumor that the car MAY be traded to the California State Railroad Museum for Virginia & Truckee No. 21 the J.W. Bowker, which was sent to the Great Western Steam up. We PERSONALLY think that would be great, as this is perhaps the most significant remaining railroad artifact from the transcontinental railroad and the California State Railroad Museum is the defacto transcontinental railroad museum. AND for the time being Central Pacific car No. 12 is also at the California State Railroad Museum where it is being restored. No. 12 was built by Wason Manufacturing Co. in Springfield, Mass just for the Golden Spike event in 1869 and transported to New York and then traveled by rail to Omaha where the Union Pacific added it and another car to their train pulled by Union Pacific locomotive 119 to Promontory Summit. The two cars were not part of the event as Union Pacific had no interest in having two Central Pacific cars on display as part of their train, so they were side-tracked during the event. However, after the event, the two cars were added to the CP train and taken to Sacramento where they were loaded onto a Southern Pacific river boat and taken to San Francisco where they were placed on SP tracks making them the first cars ever to travel from the Atlantic to the Pacific.
It is destined to be removed to the not yet built Southern Pacific Railroad History Center in Rocklin, Calif., HOWEVER, if it stayed at the California State Railroad Museum too... well that wouldn't suck...
It would be so much fun to have both cars restored to their 1869 appearance and have it be pulled by the replica Jupiter and 119!
I’d like to see all of the passenger cars from both trains re-created at promontory. Instead of just having the two replica locomotives have the full trains!
@@ToyManTelevision That would also be amazing as well.
The Commissioners were the government inspectors that surveyed the line to see that it was up to the required standards. They were given use of the car for their work. The car was 'nice' so that the commissioners had a good feeling about the work of the Central Pacific.
Thanks!!!! Question answered. Ah the good old days when people at least pretended to like the government.
Pretend is a good description. I can't think any of the men who oversaw the building of the Transcontinental railroad liked when they had to go in front of Congress and explain who got the Crédit Mobilier bonds and stocks. And who got commissions.
The ‘bullet holes’ on the Commissioner’s Car were made by woodpeckers! Some of them still have nuts inside where the woodpeckers left them. One reason the tongue and groove siding hasn’t been replaced is because the tack holes are still there from when the banners reading “Suffragette Special” were mounted to it in 1919. That and it has all those layers of paint underneath the green movie paint useful for research. Over the door on the vestibule in one of your shots, just enough paint has been sanded away to reveal the V&T’s “17” and a little bit of the CP’s livery as well just beneath it.
The woodpeckers got at the car when it was stored at 20th Century-Fox's Century Ranch in Malibu Canyon. The 'Denver & California Western' letterboard is the movie paint for 'The Gambler' (Kenny Rogers).
A study was done on the Commissioner’s car a few years ago and sent to the Smithsonian for peer review, they recommended against restoring it at all because of how much original material is left and how much would need to be replaced in order to stabilize and make it presentable. Sometimes the best course of action is conservation/arrested decay. Restoration would make it look nice, but it essentially wouldn’t be the same car that it was at Promontory.
Thanks guys, I had no idea that any of the cars were still in existence.
Nor I.
PS Dale and Karen thanks again.
Absolutely this stands as one of your best videos, the documentation, your storyline, you guys' narration, its all there, just brilliant! I am serious, I've been watching since the beginning and this is one of your finest peices of work, well done and thank you
Wow!!! Thanks again
You are absolutely right about the trade! We are trying to get the car in a condition to traverse the mountains, but it will soon be here in California
Please be careful moving it. I would hate for it to end up as a pile of toothpicks somewhere.
@@iannarita9816 oh trust me, we will. It's not near ready yet, and it's not going anywhere until it is
I had the chance to talk to Kyle Wyatt (former Curator of History and Technology, CSRM) at Steam Up, they’ve discovered that the car that was brought to CSRM a couple of years ago was not the same car that traveled across the country and happened to be in attendance on May 10th. It was actually a CP car built in 1876, don’t remember much else that he said about it. Disappointing, but Kyle did say at one point that one of the cars in the UP ceremonial train is suspected to remain in existence today. Don’t know anything else about it, but sure would be neat if they could find it.
Yes, the last time they had the car on display inside the museum it came with a digital exhibit explaining how the research had revealed it to not be the car it was originally suspected of being. Still a wonderful early railroad car, just not the one to have made hat first transcontinental trip as originally reported.
Your narrations are always educational. This one certainly is. At first, I thought the the drill holes on the side of the Commissioner's Car might be bullet holes. After all, the 1800's was the times of the wild, wild west. That vintage #12 classic steam engine catches my eye everytime! Whatta beauty!!! The others, too! Never get tired of lookin' at 'em. Timeless beauties! Wish I had 'em in my HO brass collection! Another video gem from the Toy Man! Keep 'em comin'! 👍
They tell me now they are woodpecker holes! Gee. Hard working woodpeckers.
I talked to the people at the California state railroad Museum YES they are trading the engine and coach.
Sweet!!!!!🚀🚂
Thanks for taking us places I probably would never see otherwise. I've seen "machinery collections" that felt like an indoor cemetery, with no life. But the places you have shown us seem to keep the spirit and the machinery alive. Always enjoyable, cheers
Thanks!!!
Very nice work...our national railway museum Port Adelaide is doing a lot of restorative work as well...another group is the Pichi Richi Ralway Quorn south Australia the things they have found relating to The2nd world war soldiers google and view👍👍👍❤️❤️❤️
Rich history. Cool equipment. If you weren’t so far away! Ten years by car. Well can’t be done I guess. But even the 12 hours in a jet…. And it’s easier to pee in a bucket while standing in a a hollowed out tree than use an airline bathroom.
It would be amazing if the Commissioner's Car was restored and taken out to Promontory to be hooked up behind the Jupiter.
I’d prefer to see all the cars recreated. And rides given on relaid track.. I’m thinking this car will be mostly left as is. Because of the history. But who knows?
Even that would be cool to see.
Hi Dale & Karyn! I always love your railroad history videos. You both have a knack for bringing America’s fascinating nostalgic past to life for us viewers. If we could travel back in time, how awesome would it be to ride as passengers aboard this Commissioner's Car pulled to the vert site where the Golden Spikes were driven? That would really be something amazing to witness such history in the making.
-from Tom Pilling
Hi again tom! Thanks again for the kind words. Fun video coming on Sunday. Models of the V and T. One in full size operating form!
Cars like these are more than just history, but also an example of the ability of the people of this country to rise to the challenge to overcome difficulties.
Really great video.
How many of us have traveled from the Pacific to the Atlantic, by rail, and Pryor to Amtrak?
Late in January 1970 I boarded the San Diegian, in Downtown San Diego, (Santa Fe) right on the Pacific, traveled to LA and the boarded the El Capetian and rode all the way to Chicago, transferred to the Lasalle Street Station, boarded the New York Central, I believe it was train 26 and rode to Cleveland. The trip took a full 4 days.
On different occasions I have ridden, both ways from Cleveland to New York City, right on the Atlantic. All of this and several other railroads before Amtrak.
Train travel is becoming popular again. If you're not in a hurry it is a really nice way to travel. You folks can attest to that. I just wish they were a bit more (schedule) reliable and numerous in routes. ;-)
We visited Both museum when our children were younger great trips no matter how you cut it another trip that we missed with our children was State route 49 through the gold fields of California.
I love the Golden Spike Car! It looks too neat!
Thank you for the history and explanations of your nicely paced presentation.
Thank you. Another great video👍
Hi again. Thanks again as always for watching. This was a fun show as we needed to figure out some things. Better information in the description.
The passenger car of Theseus.
Come back to the California State Railroad Museum! They’ve got a model railroading display that wasn’t there the last time you guys came.
Plan!!!
I doubt this would happen but it would be cool if the bouter car, once restored and if structural sound enough, to be brought to promontory summit Utah and put on temporary disability and or put on the track behind the Jupiter for use in the reenactments they do.
I’d like to see the cars replicated at promontory. Both CP cars. And the UP cars.
@@ToyManTelevision agreed, that would probably be better.
I think Commissioner’s Car refers to the car for the Government Commissioner who would ensure the rr was carried out correctly. Just a supposition.
I went to the railfans weekend at the Huckleberry Railroad yesterday, and when I went I went on the shop tour, they were doing an overhaul on their oldest coach #8, and I was telling them that if either the Glenbrook or her sister engine, the Tahoe, visited the Huckleberry Railroad, they'd be good paired up with #8, since #8 dates back to 1875, the same year the Glenbrook and the Tahoe were built, also I wrote a letter to rhe restoration groups that own tje Glenbrook and the Tahoe recommending the Huckleberry Railroad as a place to run those two locomotives
I believe car # 8 was built by the Kimble Car Co. in 1873 for the North Pacific Coast (or Northwestern Pacific) and then sold to the NCO when the original was standard gauged. It was used off the trucks for a while and then sold to a person who built an A-frame over it for a residence. It was rescued and then sold to the Genesee Parks & Recreation Commission for the Huckleberry RR. When it was rebuilt by the guys in the car shop on the Huckleberry, they uncovered the Kimble plate on the footplate in one of the doors. One of the big reasons # 8 is not used, is it doesn't carry enough people like the other cars do to justify using it; that is a shame because it would be a great parlor car. Car 100 was a business or private car on a Mexican railroad and still has the ornate rear handrail. I got the car guys to mount the marker brackets on #100 so it could carry markers on the first railfans weekend.
Dale, Karyn, in the photos of the of the Driving of the Golden Spike, there are a few well dressed women in an otherwise all male crowd. Were these, perhaps, companions of railroad bigwigs?
The CP car you were talking about coming from Sacramento to the wedding of the rails and sold to the V&T was used along with the baggage car and the 2 cars of the UP train to make models of those 2 trains. There were only 1869 kits made and I have 1 set of each train, unconstructed.
The car, V&T 17, should be rebuilt like it would have been and maintained over the years to a reasonable and safe condition with notations of original materials and why they were replaced. That sort of thing was done in car maintenance while the car was used.
The drill holes at the end of the car side probably were made to hold cameras or other gear during filming. That is what they look like to me anyway.
As additional info, neither the UP No 119 nor the CP JUPITER were the original locomotives to bring the trains to the festivities. The #119 was a freight loco substituted for the passenger loco because of flooding in Webber Canyon and the JUPITER was substituted for a loco that was damaged by a log that had rolled into the ditch beside the track on Donner Pass.
There were 4 spikes-1 gold, 1 gold & silver, 1 silver, & 1 gold & iron ( I believe). The dimples in the top of the gold spike were made by the Army officers tapping the top while it was in the hole of the laurel wood tie before it was removed and a regular tie and spikes were driven. The spikes in the laurel wood tie had been drilled to accept the spikes because the special spikes were too soft to drive.
Thank you for posting this and the previous videos in this series. I wanted to let you know I have been publishing a series on the Sacramento museum and will be concluding it with footage of one of the engines being readies to travel to Nevada. I would like to post links to your series as well as mention your channel. I have no doubt that this will gain you both views and subscriptions. Please let me know if this is something you are ok with...
Sure!! Thanks. Need to check your channel.
@@ToyManTelevision would love your feedback...and just to jog the memory...we talked a little about your American flyer interest and that you had some as a kid.
Sorry to be off subject but if you ever find yourselves east. I got to experience the Kentucky railway museum for my 20th yesterday. They're really awesome there and I got a private tour of the shops from the president of the board himself. And their cars were absolutely amazing to ride in. Highly recommend going there and checking that little state museum there. They also have one of the boxvans given by France filled with all sorts of stuff as a Thank-you for the war efforts. Each state got a boxvan goodie bag and Kentucky has theirs at the state railway museum.
That would be a 2-axle car from WWI, a 40 & 8, it could haul 40 men or 8 horses. Louisiana's car is under a canopy on the grounds of the old state capital building in Baton Rouge.
@@royreynolds108 I always knew it as a box van.
Dale and Karyn, you can check your many archives, but I'm believing this rail coach in question is seen in many of the opening shots of the full-color episodes from the TV series, one-hour episodes of 'The Tales Of Wells Fargo' starring Dale Robertson.
Would be nice if they would send this car to the GSHS
What is a GSHS?
Golden Spike Historic Site. National monument at promontory Utah. Down side is they have no way to display such a car. It would be cool.. but they’d need to spend millions to house it. Sacramento can handle anything. And really is the de facto transcontinental museum.
I have southern Pacifica last stainless steel spike
It's hard to say how far to go with restoring the Commissioner's Car. I think it is better to at least restore it, than leave it how it is, because people will appreciate it more that way. Otherwise it just looks like an old train car rotting away, which a lot of people won't pay much attention to.
I hope that the owner of the second car you discussed will allow it to remain at the California State RR Museum. It would be a shame for it to be locked away somewhere where the public can't see it.
It is still so senseless that the Jupiter and 119 were scrapped. As I understand it, the idea of keeping things for historical purposes didn't really come about until after Penn Station was torn down. But now we can't build it back, because Madison Square Garden was put in its place, and now THAT building is historic.
When I think about how the Pyramids of Giza and Roman Coloseum were raided for building materials by the later civilizations, it makes me sick.
What to save and what to restore. Many of San Francisco's cable cars are metal only restorations. That is all the wood was replicated and the metal parts used to present a cable car. The wood working shop at the cable car barn has done any number of these. Muni has also built cable cars from the ground up with all the "spare" parts they have for cable cars.
I'm glad I don't make those kinds of decisions. Leave it to those who have done years if no decades of study.
It’s hard. Been through this before. The UP depot in Park City burned. Half gone. Some said tear it down. Because it’s not original. Well Robert Redford rebuilt it. And no one could say poop. Cause Redford. But we almost lost it. Because you should not replace original. Anyway these are issues and questions that need to be addressed. But I love to see it. As is is fine. Restoration is fine. I just like to see it.
So where are they expanding to? My guess is where the parking lot is? It enjoy visiting that museum. Bought some neat things. Liked your back ground music. Great video! As usual!
Hi Ken. We did a show on that.. don’t remember the title. Anyway the original CP and SP shops survive and are right behind the museum on the other side of the UP mainline. Huge place. And all the homes and other structures have been torn down. To be mostly parking lot but the new section includes the original SP depot. Huge! Most of the shops are to become stores and restaurants. But the huge SP back shop will continue to be restoration shops for the museum but will be open to the public at times. And the adjoining CP shops will be the new museum area. We’re talking a space that will double the size of old Sacramento. Google map old Sacramento and you can see the work area. Amazing.
@@ToyManTelevision Just means I will have to go back again. I love their cab forward and have been looking for one in N scale. On a list. I also vaguely recall seeing the Virginia and Truckee steam loco you talked about on the static bridge display. My trip was rushed a I got there close to closing time. However I did visit the gift shop and bought a tee shirt for my wife and my son and increased my railroad pin collection with 3 new pins. Have to go back and explore the whole area. Such a neat place. Thanks for showing it.
When are you going to get to IRM in Union IL???? that vid could be an hour plus thats how much stuff they have
Love to. Need to set it up. Steve will be happy to have us I’m sure! But can’t just show up. Anyway, on our list. Love to follow the Challenger when it heads there.
I could really use photos of the frame work on that car so I can build them
White's The Passenger Car has a lot of photos and diagrams.
Wonderful thanks
Are those bullet holes in the sides of the cabin?
Woodpeckers. As we have been told..
Leland Stanford was Governor of California at the time of the Golden Spike.
Yup. I think is amazing Hughes made the spike and all the jewelry items and then just gave them to Stanford. Wanted something in return? Seems not. Other than to be part of history. But the spike was his idea and he sorta had to talk Stanford into going along with it! Then he made one for himself. Wow!
Love these old locomotives but why were they so colorful? For a working machine why not keep them black like newer steam locomotives.
They were the 747's of their day. They were visually attractive in keeping with the style of the time to attract attention and ridership. For the freight engines, it was a source of pride for the ownership. The worn out railroad equipment as seen in the typical Hollywood production was a lie. The equipment was just about always maintained in perfect order. The V&T ran a winter train and a summer train. During the six month off period the cars were repaired, cleaned and varnished.
Some railroads had engineers assigned to a particular locomotive. Even where the engeneer moved from locomotive to locomotive they took the whistle with them as each took pride in the community knowing who was running by the whistle sound. All engineers develop their own distinctive “pull” on the whistle and also the fireman on the bell. The crew often consisted of several “locomotive wipers”, kids about 12 to 14 who cleaned the locomotive, wiped linseed oil into the Russian iron jacket and spent hours polishing brass. And loving it. They were gods to the other kids. Most stayed with the railroad till they died. The older guys were given a seat in a shanty and a flag and told to flag a road crossing. The conductors had their own caboose. Assigned to them. Keep it clean. Keep it nice. They lived in there much more than their home. This didn’t last too long. Railroads were always looking to profit. But before about 1880 this was how most railroads worked.
There are a lot of discussions amongst vehicle owners as to "conserve" or "restore". It is always a very difficult choice. In some ways the car should be conserved as is and then interpret the history.
Yet seeing it restored would be great. Sigh.