Simon Jordan & Graeme Souness LOCK HORNS Over Why There's A LACK Of Successful English Managers 😱🔥
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- čas přidán 24. 03. 2024
- TalkSPORT's Simon Jordan and Graeme Souness clash over the reasons behind the current lack of successful English managers, especially within the Premier League.
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#simonjordan - Sport
Everyone has to specialise in something and English managers are specialists in relegation battles😂😂
Thank you very much😂😂but they wouldn't accept it...
I.e Big Sam Allardice, well renowned relegation specialist
😂😂😂😂😂 harsh
😂😅
Fire fighters
The British managers culture is all based on fear of losing rather than trying to win the game allardyce, Moyes, dyche, Southgate the list goes on all I can say is at least some of the younger managers are trying to be entertaining howe and Carrick whether they will be given the time to aspire to greatness is something else
England has approx 1600 UEFA licence holders. Spain has over 15,000. The courses in Spain are also 75% cheaper.
that's an interesting fact. but i know people who are coaches and referees etc in England at lower levels and they couldn't make a living by that profession alone. so they often have to choose with a pie in the sky dream of being a football coach or get a job that will pay the bills.
and lets not forget how underappreciated coaches and referees are in lower level football in the UK....
but you are right when countries strive to be the best at something it has to be done from an early age and develop people into those roles. countries with the best engineers etc have high levels of STEM graduates, this is because their education systems and society looks up on STEM as the future so people want to do it and they can make a good living do it.
@GenEF70chip well said
Brian Clough was a football genius! won 2 European Cups with Nottingham Forest and he should have been the England Manager in the 70s, but the ignorant FA didn't appoint him because he was too outspoken. 😠
Spot on!!
He wouldve been victorious with England
English arrogance even to their own. Brian Clough was a top manager.
@@gerardonochie3408What was arrogant about the FA not giving the job to Clough ?
Yes he was a top manager! thanks for agreeing 🤣🤣🤣🤣@@gerardonochie3408
We all know english managers are of the standard of sean dyche 😂
And? He is a good coach
@@jbo4547 😂
@@jbo4547 English football culture😂
@@thierryhenry674 Is pretty traditionalist, it has hardly moved beyond the 80s - it´s only because of the foreign influx that the play has improved significantly.
The Premier League has been won by by:
2 Scottish managers
1 Portuguese manager
1 French manager
1 Chilean manager
1 Spanish manager
1 German manager
(All with the same single club).
4 Italian managers
(Four different clubs)
0 English managers
2 Scottish managers actually - Fergie and Dalgliesh (Blackburn)
@@opulentwaters7939
You’re quite right; I’ve amended my list above.
How embarrassing for English, foreign owners with foreign managers and foreign mercenaries in their team's with an average of 9/11
Still no English manager has won the Premier League. Last English manager to win the top division league tittle was Howard Wilkinson back in 1992. Dosent look like changing anytime soon.
Agreed, Howe and Potter were supposed to be the biggest hopes but they've both turned out to be mediocre at financially backed clubs. People speak negatitvely about Pep etc saying they couldn't win without being at a top club but he's at a top club because it takes a certain type of manager to be there.
@@Writeous0ne Nowadays teams win main trophies mainly Leagues are ones with most millions to spend sadly ..Unlike in Celtics day as that was a Celtic team in 67; raised from youngsters through the ranks whom all blended together like a Brotherly bond and why they conquered Europe as well as having the best manager ever could have had at that time in Jock Stein ..
Yeah from 20 or 30 miles from Celtic Pakr I think @@fishingstevie8830
@@Writeous0ne I don't think Howe has turned out to be mediocre. He got Newcastle into the Champions League well ahead of schedule and he's had one tough season following that up. They were relegation candidates under Steve Bruce two seasons ago. It takes time to build a club up.
@@ravecrab just a fluke season though, lot's of other teams were in bad form and rebuilding. He's been found out this season in the Prem and CL.
English managers, so Sounese talks about Jock, Fergie and Shanks.
All Scots 😂😂
Don’t forget Sir Kenny as well!
There was something about the working class culture they were all brought up in. I think the reason there are few English managers and the demise of Scottish managers is that the working class culture that bred them has been destroyed.
I guess you conveniently missed Paisley,Fagan and Revie.And obviously can't follow a simple convo that expanded from Souness's explanation of why Paisley and Fagan couldn't/wouldn't manage in todays game
Simon triggered 😂😂😂
@@user-re9mp2nh5e did...did you just say the working class dont exist anymore? LOL
Joe Fagan was the last English manager to win the European Cup (now Champions League) with Liverpool 1984.
Howard Kendall was the last English manager to win a European trophy (Cup Winners Cup) with an English club (Everton in 1985).
Sir Bobby Robson was the last English manager to win a European trophy (Cup Winners Cup with Barcelona in 1997).
Irritating how talksport get simple facts wrong when all the information is there at their fingertips.
Howard Wilkinson was the last to win a League title in England, 1992
@@Contextualiser16-tn8nd Meaning that no English manager has ever won the Premier League. In fact the Premier League has been won by only 11 different managers and the statistics read like this:
Italy 4
Scotland 2
France 1
Portugal 1
Chile 1
Spain 1
Germany 1
Id prefer the order to be in how many those countries have won between them @@damienabbott9805
Wasn't Fagan Irish?
Sir Bobby Robson won it with Ipswich town too. Dude is a legend.
Won what ?
@@leepatrick9432 he won the UEFA European cup didn’t he?
@@leepatrick9432 yea I just googled it and he won the UEFA Cup with Ipswich. I watched a CZcams video about him and that’s how I remembered it. (American)
@@rLxJake No he won the UEFA cup,they clearly said European cup/ Champions league.And what is (American) supposed to indicate ?
@@leepatrick9432 that I don’t have a 60 year history of football completely grasped. For example I thought the UEFA Cup was the predecessor of champions league. Like the premier league is to the English football pyramid.
Sir Bobby coached Sporting and Porto and is loved here in Portugal. Humble, funny and just a lovely man.
Souness who coached Benfica on the other hand.
Sounness is loved in Istanbul - Galatasaray
There isn't training camps for managers in England like there are in other countries.
Dont forget sir kenny as well! 😂
The European ban in 1985 took a heavy toll from which English managers never seemed to recover. It's like we went irreversibly backwards in those 5 years during which the continent caught up and the game changed. From 1977 to 1985, 7 different English managers won European trophies, Bob Paisley 3 European cups (and 1 uefa cup) Brian Clough 2, Joe Fagan 1, Tony Barton 1 (with technically ex-manager Ron Saunders who left Villa halfway thru season). Bobby Robson 1 uefa cup, Keith Burkinshaw 1 and Howard Kendall 1 cup winners cup.
I think the more continental philosophy taking over and all the rules fitting around how they play or behave on the pitch didn't help at a time when we frowned upon the dark arts of the Italians and Spanish perfected over decades and prided ourselves on our so-called British sense of fair play and mocked those foreign theatrics which are now almost a skilled artform.
Terry Venables and Bobbie Robson both managed Barcelona and England. They were the 2 last great English managers. Kevin Keegan almost did it with Newcastle. Southgate deserves credit however. 1 Semi and 1 Final.
I think you were going in the right direction.
The European ban closed off English managers in their own little pool. While the rest of Europe was exchanging ideas and evolving tactically, England stagnated in the old '4-4-2 kick the ball upfield'. It has nothing to do with theatrics. It's tactical and it takes time to change.
@@antoniobrandao7139It helps when a team can employ tactics knowing the ref will give a foul at the slightest contact. It allowed the development of technical coaches and players to operate with more freedom and incorporate 'tactical' use of the rules and stricter officiating to their advantage without being out-muscled and bullied so much . Which benefited the Latin teams who have always been more adept and cute in manipulating officials on the pitch. Not a criticism, it's a skill in itself which they mastered along with the technical skills.
@@antoniobrandao7139 Liverpool definitely didn't play that style in the late 80s, they were one of the best teams in Europe but banned. They could easily have won a European Cup.
@@AlexOjideagu2 sure. Liverpool and maybe a couple of other teams did play a more evolved kind of football but the archetypical English football at the time was the 'kick and rush' which lingered until the 90s save some exceptions.
continental managers know that management is an art not a science. they appreciate how important emotion and psychology is and use this to get the best out of their teams. then you add the technical and physical side on top, focusing on things like fluidity and creativity, and generous dose of charisma. english managers are typically close-minded, lack creativity and have little charisma, but i think things are very slowly changing. more english players need to play abroad, so when they eventually become managers they appreciate alternative ways of approaching the game and are more well-rounded
Is what Arteta showed, you only have to watch the amazon documentary on this.
It's why I still say Arsene is better than Pep. And.also why I claim fergie is biggest myth and.fraud.
He just had refs and.fa in his pocket. His playing style was just always rough and aggressive, they got away with fouls that way.
??? Frank Lampard, Steve G? Rooney ? Brandon Rodger’s? List is endless…. Can’t say there haven’t been opportunities tbh
You mean Brendan Rodgers? Yeah he ain't English
@@jackdelacey2505 My Bad 😂
They are only given poisoned chalice jobs or transactional teams and no big spending...... and they have to turn it around in record time
@@italianplastic23 isnt that also contributed to by some poor decision making, there could be an argument that Graham Potter was given a fair chance @ Brighton chose to go to Chelsea who have a revolving door for managers, foreign or otherwise, Steve G was given a budget 3 times than Emery in a short period of time , Frank Lampard had 15 points in 20 matches when he got the sack @ Everton , don’t think in football it’s not always that black & white sometimes decision are taken with clubs longevity & best interest @ heart
@@nickmtalie4252 poor decision to take those jobs at those times....
Brighton/villa are nothing ...Chelsea transitional...Villas boas did just as bad a job and that was never a smear on Spanish managers.
lamp/Gerard were toe dipping' young managers from the golden generation....no one from the wag culture era was ever going to make a good manager.
you cant hold them as representations of all English managers
Great points, good discussion.
Redknaap, Aladyce, Pulis, Pardew, Reid, Royal, Hoddle. All had multiple opportunities at club level, and all of them were overated.
Simon is right.
Hoddle was very good its a shame he didnt get another crack at it.
@happyapple4269 hoddle is awful. the way he speaks about the game on champions league commentary is so basic and limited, but he's not any different to the rest. on average, english people just don't understand the game very much.
Hoddle was Okay he said stuff that media pcs hates, although tbh Hoddle shouldn't have said it.
Eddie Howe can potentially win but Newcastle are still trying to recover from the Ashley period. Gonna take another 3-4 years yet to really start competing with the corrupt 6
No Graeme. Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Hughton, Potter etc have all been given a chance. They're simply not good enough. Arteta's not still in a job because he's Spanish. It's because he's good. See if Jim Radcliff hires an Englishman at Man U just because. Maybe English players who want to become Managers should take a leaf from the foreign Managers and see how they do it. The same way English players are going on the continent to play for non-English teams.
Potter did a fantastic job at Brighton. Arteta clung to his job by his fingernails
@@joecarmody5544 Potter was fantastic at Brighton, but flopped at Chelsea. Arteta is currently doing a great job at Arsenal despite it being his first job as manager. Gary O'Neil is doing a magnificent job at Wolves as well despite being very young. Many managers get fired from their jobs, it's just the nature of the beast that is football, but there just aren't enough English managers that have been able to win anything neither here in England nor abroad in other countries, and that is the reality. It's not that they aren't given chances
@@fady02would've been interesting had potter been given longer than five minutes at Chelsea
Southgate will be the next United manager and get them relegated
@andypandy4607 Would a got Chelsea relegated
England thinks that great managers are just born (same with players sometimes as well), people don’t give managers time anymore, just look at Eddie Howe, lot of people think NewCastle need a elite manager to win things but people/media aren’t giving people time to become Elite managers. How can someone become elite if you try and replace them every week/season
Howe is not elite.
is pep given time to fail?
@habibisimon-nb3kk so? I can't make my own comment?
@@paulorganisation1 not yet but he might become elite
@@EdwinOngKeatMeng tbh honest Pep is possibly one of the exceptions, but he is not just a elite manager, he is probably one of the best manager ever to exist
English football culture needs to change. Even when the best players and managers in the world arrive in England they're treated like nobody's until they've proven they're good enough to beat dross like Burnley and Luton. With less of an island mentality they can produce better managers.
The problem is we have an anti-intellectual culture in this country. Football is mostly played and watched by the kind of lads who used to say you were "gay" at school if you actually did your work. We praise "straight talking" pundits like Roy Keane or Graeme Souness who can't analyse tactics and just moan that players aren't running or tackling hard enough. We treat tactics like some suspicious foreign nonsense. Being an elite football manager is actually not simple. The modern game is tactically complex and you need to be smart and analytical to coach it. So we have to import that knowledge from countries with better footballing cultures.
@@ravecrab Agreed. I think that is changing a bit but the change is quite slow.
For me you have to go back to Terry Venables for the last innovative English coach .Shame he only got one tournament to manage England as he was a bit too much for the F.A to handle .
Spain just produce the best managers plain and simple. It's not because of them being the fashionable choice of the moment
NO it's because the Spanish FA invested heavily in the development of young coaches. If you invest well you will see the benefits
Apart from Pep, I'm struggling to think of too many TOP successful Spanish managers...?
Luis Enriquez, de bosque, emery
@@Geohillierneo Currently you have Unai Emery, Xabi Alonso, Luis Enrique, Pep and Arteta doing very well
@@Geohillierneo There is a far greater number of very good Spanish managers than English managers. Just look at the UCL quarter final managers for an example
If British managers didn’t rush themselves to manage such big clubs or chase big money. Instead spent their time working with other managers in the premier league and overseas learning their craft. Maybe the might be more successful
We have some great young snd upcoming manahers; Carrick and McKenna for example.
Problem in the PL is were obsessed with the next shiney object from overseas.
Id encourage all young/hungry managers to go and get some experience overseas; itll add huge credit to their CV's. Doesn't happen enough unfortunately, nut they're missing out
The problem is, these English managers, did they ever played for or learned from a modern tactician?
English managers don’t believe that TACTICS is at least 90% of what it matters.
They don’t have a step by step methodic approach. They can’t micromanage every positioning and movements of their players like a chess game.
They park the bus. They are boring, direct and defensive.
They prefer physical, athletic, hardworking players, rather than skillful, technical, creative players with good teamwork.
England fans are risk averse, they reject any modern ideology. They don’t think of taking more risks, playing less defensive capable attacking profile players to outscore their opponents. Instead, they cheer when they make a good tackle.
McKenna isn’t even English
Carrick the bottle job at middlesborough😂😂😂😂
I think a huge part of it is as soon as one has any kinda success at a smaller club we (the public) and the media start saying how great they are and then the pressure piles on and they take big jobs they aren't ready for.
Are Scottish people English now? It seems Simon & Souness think that based on their arguments.
Souness comes from a tradition up here that would tell you Scots are just far-north English people.
Souness sold his soul to the Sun newspaper , ruined his Liverpool legacy tbh , guy was a terrible manager too, plenty clubs gave him by the standard of the time huge funds and bought Mark Walters.
@@samhamad5239 Oh look , a yes voter who wants Scotland to be independent
Ermmm you were more than happy to call Sir Alex a british manager when suited.
So weird how Simon slips between saying he’s so patriotic and will blindly back his country to always slagging off English managers.
Most old school managers would struggle in the modern game, not only because of the changes in the game, but also because of the changes behind the scenes, with the sports science departments, and the massive coaching teams, in which i believe there is often at least one guy with his eye on your job in 6 months, where in the past it might've been 6 years or more.
Premier League should be the breeding ground for best English managers who can take the England national team. But how can that be when premier league is dominated by foreign managers with only four of them being english?
But your country doesn’t produce top managers, it hasn’t done so now for decades
The gap between English managers and foreign managers is vast. Graham Potter was a promising manager and got exposed at Chelsea. Eddie Howe is most likely on his way out of Newcastle as he can't get the team to perform. Gerard couldn't have flopped harder, and Emery showed him up big time when he took over at Villa. It's not that English managers aren't being given a chance, it's that they don't take their chances
Englands biggest indictment is that they couldn’t even produce one world class coach from that golden generation they had 15 years ago
Rooney, Terry, Beckham, Lampard, Ferdinand, Gerrard, Neville, Cole
None of them can do it
How
Look at France with Deschamps, Germany with Beckenbauer and Klinsmann and don’t need to even talk about Spain cos they flooded with world class minds
Will never be another Sir Bobby. Pep & Jose learnt from him at barca among others. Class.
If Southgate is the posterboy for english managers then that explains lot. SOUTHGATE 😂😂😂
Roy hodgson
Mc claren
Allardyce
Jim needs to do some more research, Tony Barton was the Aston Villa manager 1981/82
That must be some size of a studio to accommodate those egos.
No mention of Howard Kendall ?
It really doesn't help with the English FA deliberately overprice coaching qualifications, restrict the number of coaches that can take the UEFA B and above every year and clubs across the professional sphere deliberately underpay English and other nationality coaches in the system for every single job. Even for academic based roles at football clubs they are paying less than a teacher would get in a mainstream school.
It's not that English managers are lazy, it's the very fact that the system does not reward the kind of coaching growth and development we want to see. I know of plenty of coaches who have to work two or three jobs just to get by. That shouldn't be the case when you are coaching at a professional football club.
If you want better coaches, change the system to make it more accessible and more rewarding.
The top clubs aren't interested in English managers either or willing to take a risk or give them time
So why don’t they go abroad and take European jobs to work themselves up?
Chelsea gave Lampard a chance twice and he bottled it, potter bottled it. Hodgson bottled his chance at Liverpool.
@@tevildo45the biggest bottler in this list should be gerrard. Took a good Aston villa side into a relegation scrap last season, and the way unai emery turned things has been unbelievable.
@@fangdog29It's a stupid term to use,but if you want to say bottler.Then it would be a choice between the 3 that inherited better squads than Gerrard
@@ayoa.o.9966this hits the issue on the head in my opinion. The reason English managers don't develop is because they don't go abroad to learn their craft. Meanwhile, all the Spanish, French, Italian, German managers are willing to go away to learn their trade. The English have stagnated by choice.
Managers from other leagues also put their egos in check and start in lower divisions and work up, like Ancelotti, Conte etc. Meanwhile, in England you have Sol Campbell complaining about not getting Prem offers when he has no managerial CV 😂
So Graham is saying foreign coaches interview better in their second or third language than English managers do in their primary language?
Please explain this logic.
Don't think he meant their English is better 😂
Graham skirting around the fact the game, and its rules, changed. No longer was it the norm to scythe down opponents and turn the game into a real scrap. When the game required higher levels of thinking and tactics, and the game required more techincal players, the British Isles were just unable to keep up (broadly speaking, minus a few stand outs). The influx of foreign players, coaches, and footballing minds wasn't a fad, it was essential otherwise clubs would be left in the dark ages.
Not to slag off a more classicial style, but there is a reason why those teams don't win the league every year.
Guys, go watch the Champions league final between Barcelona and Man United - Pep vs Fergie. Apparent Best English side vs Apparent best team. Why was there such a big tactical mismatch in that game with both managers having the same amount of time and prep? One manager even being in the job for less than a year? Which current English coach/manager plays football that takes your breath away? Until you name me one this conversation is pointless.
That was a Scottish manager…?!?!
Mike Bassett knew what he was doing with 4-4-2
I don’t think I’ve ever heard Graeme talk so much nonsense
Then you don't listen often enough.
Eddie Howe finished above Klopp last season. Let’s see how he does if given time.
But what’s he doing now
@@tevildo45 The best he can with the most injury hit team in the whole of the UK.
English ex players are more interested in talking through punditry than actual coaching or managing a football team.
It starts from the top, the FA is full of old dinosaurs who've been in their jobs too long. The FA needs a root branch modernisation. Thats the first issue.
They forgot Howard Wilkinson who won it with Leeds.
The last great English manager who actually WON something was Harry Redknapp.. he should have managed England not Hodgson
I wonder if any of these gentlemen had the coaching badges that seem to be so important today with the modern coaches?
Sir Bobby and Venables were great managers
Souness lives in his own head, can't understand that styles and tactics change. No wonder he didn't do anything outside of a duopoly dominated league as a manager.
He is clueless😂
“Our people were the best mathematicians in the Stone Age. We could do addition and multiplication. Nothing has changed through the years. Why are our people not the best scientists in the modern world?”
What did he say that suggested he can't understand styles and tactics change ?
When managing Benfica, Souness released Deco because he thought he didn't have the physicality to become a top player and prefered to bring an old Michael Thomas because he was built like a tractor.
There lies part of the problem with English (British) managers in a nutshell. :)
At not one time has 'tactics changed' been an excuse to drop a certain type of person out of a sport.
football is not fashion and never before has every team had to conform to the same tactic or else ....like snobs seem to think should happen
any decent moment in these modern day chess games come when a team breaks out of their tactic and goes for it.
money won those leagues anyway.
@@antoniobrandao7139 And Wenger wanted Zlatan to have a trial.There are numerous cases where players that went on to have a great career were let go,rejected at the outset For the same reasons Souness gave and by managers/coaches of every nationality.Nice try though
So which English manager would anyone hire at the moment in the top 6?
English managers won't succeed until they understand that football ain't about your name or former club,you need to evolve and embrace the winning way like Pep,Klopp and Tuchel.English managers still think the Fergie way of coaching is the template for success.
Lol the setups by the FAs of other countries are just legit. Take a look at Italy, there’s a defined system that helps former players from Ancelottis and now Rossis to get into coaching.
Souness is the most predictable pundit around: you can always rely on him to say something to defend his ego in some way.
The problem now is back years ago the English managers were just competing against other British managers. So the foreign managers always probably had the edge, interms of technical coaching & tactically. Also the quality of player was spread through more teams, because only the champions played in the European Cup.
Would the best English managers of the last 20 years, win leagues & trophies in the 1960's & 70's? We don't know, but also would the best British managers then be as good starting midtable today? Would they ever get a top team? How would Ferguson done had he joined a midtable team rather than Man Utd? Would he have done enough to get a top job, we'll nevet know.
Simon Jordan was spot on about the coaching in general in British Football years ago. All that's happened now is the doors have been opened, to managers & coaches brought up in a better culture.
Yeah and pep wouldnt do anything at west brom or luton without billions
@@italianplastic23 We don't know that for sure, he wouldn't win things we can say that. He'd play in a way though & build, where he'd probably get a bigger job as Pochettino & Rodgers did.
Got your info wrong Jim, the last English manager to win the big cup was Sir Bob Paisley, the best of them all.!! County Durham’s finest.!!
Funny how he's saying the old school managers would of thrived today when he loses his Y-fronts if managers he dislikes run up and down the touch line...
Bob Paisley and Joe Fagan were more recent than Clough.
You cannot bring someone on another era and wonder how they would behave. If they have the same character and were born in this era they will blend in with this generation.
When was the last time you heard Real Barca, the Milans etc come in for an English coach let alone win the PL, old British coaches like souness need to move on with the times.
I've always felt its because there's a need for English managers to behave....to be polite, courteous, PR darlings.....when we know some of the best managers are so because they are large personalities, they inspire those around them, and they don't always tow the line.
We don't have people like that at that level. Yes, we've had managers like Allardyce, or now Dyche, who are outspoken, but they are lacking the other qualities. We have Southgate, Howe, Potter....managers like that who are far too nice.
Rodolfo Borrell has potential he spent a lot of time under Pep
Nevermind a European trophy what about the Premier league which is more important.
Over 30 years since an English manager won the league and no English manager as won the Premier league since it was named
I agree with Simon, generally (with some exceptions) English managers have simply not been good enough.
Typical of the country. English Football had a renaissance when the Premier League began, but it became global. Foreign Players, Foreign Manager, Foreign Owners, and anything English being marginalised. This doesn't necessarily happen in other leagues across Europe.
Its partly because, for good or for bad, we decided to sell off the premier league, like we have with london and much of this countries industry. Make of it what you will but that is a large contributor. We dont protect or ‘cradle’ our assets, depending on your perspective
For me its very simple, there can't be another SAF because the game as moved on beyond pure man management. You need tacticans and hence it comes down to education. How good is the education of coaches in England?
Change talksport to stories of the past with souness
English..hmm. Go to grounds roots football. It's all about winning..not losing then talent.
Technicalities in both the player and tactics are not taught enough.
All the coaching methods I followed were from Dutch or Brazillian football. Exciting drills mainly in small groups. Tech skills ect.
Unai Emery is currently the best PL manager in the PL
No
@@v4victory39 He’s the 3rd most decorated manager in terms of UEFA honours; took over when Villa were in 17th, they’re now 4th; gave Pep his most emphatic beat down; beat Arsenal; beat spurs; net spend is nominal; still has championship players ie players bought by Steve Bruce in McGinn and Mings in the squad… context
Hold on Moyes won the Europa Conference that was a European competition with big clubs in it such disprespect!!
Moyes is from Scotland, not England, the discussion is about English coaches.
@@gule55 wtf is Souness talking about Jock Stein for then? I thought it was British managers 🤦🏽♂️
Why doesn't jim mclean get mentioned
The big clubs generally don't hire English managers
Because they are poor.
Who and where are these English managers? Can you say who the top 5 English managers are right now? Howe, Dyche, O'Neil, Wilder and Southgate. It's a list of mediocre to average at best managers.
@@ivanaleksandartsanev1693- calm down chum, it wasn't a complaint, just an observation
Why would they hire relegation level managers if they want to win the league????
Gerrard Lampard Rooney have failed and are clueless, yet these are elite footballers who played under great managers and played with amazing foreign players! Xabi played with Gerrard in midfield, yet look at what he is doing at Leverkusen, Xavi already won Laliga, Arteta FA Cup and is competing for league now 2yrs running!
Which English managers have the quality to Lead Chelsea Liverpool United Arsenal to win trophies?
Zero
@ivanaleksandartsanev16Are we talking about the very same G Southgate, a "top" English manager who specialized in getting teams relegated?
Gareth southgate england manager ...says it all..
The problem is we get situations like Eddie Howe gets top4 and Talksport generally lead the “hes their Mark Hughes, they need a big name”
Not to say he is elite but the media are just waiting for English managers to fail and dont give them the time to develop/learn before theyre ready to rip them apart
no, the problem is english people just dont understand the game as much as other europeans.
@@abody499yeah totally there’s no deluded Real, Barca, Milan or Juve fans 😂 honestly the cognitive dissonance in the comments section on here is amazing 🤦🏻
@jamesbothoms6009 you have never had an original thought in ur life. this is exactly why what i said is true. neither delusion nor cognitive dissonance has any relevance to what i said. ur just parroting terms you've seen someone else parrot with no idea what they mean. this is england.
Del Bosque schooled Ferguson on few occassions & dominated European football with multiple Champions League. He went on to win the World Cup with Spain too but he's never rated like Fergie, English PR is the best in the world cause media & its fans live in a bubble praising each other. Pep broke that bubble & Wenger couldn't(he was too soft), even Mourinho broke that bubble.
So the two who supposedly 'broke that bubble' were also the two backed by billionaires with endless pits of money to throw at their teams? OK, hun.
@@futurez12 What are you on about?
Wasn't MUFC outspending most clubs, especially EPL clubs.
In fact, Del Bosque won multiple CL with a broke Real Madrid & Raul. Only after Perez became president did he get sacked & galactico era started, won only 1 CL.
@@decode3667the team in 2000 had Redondo anelka r Carlos and McMananam, the 2002 team had Carlos Figo Zidane a good portion of the galaticos and del bosque was sacked in 2003
@@pjduff7577 From 1998 to 2002, most of the team was cheap players & academy players, only few were known super stars.
After 2002, Perez prioritized galacticos to make Real Madrid a financial brand monster, which ruined the balance of the team but they won 1 CL & multiple league titles.
Again, Del Bosque never gets mentioned in the same level as Ferguson. That's my point, Fergie is a bit overrated & over hyped.
@@futurez12Mourinho won Champions League and League titles in Portugal with Porto, and then again with Inter Milan! Which billionaires were backing those teams at the level of Abramovich and City?
Relax
Jordan has never kicked a ball in his life and he's going head to head with Souness ... really??? lol
How many English managers have even won the Premier League?
Joe fagan 1984european cup winner after clough
I agree with Simon
English coaches have not been good enough. The last generally talented coach was Redknapp - he actually won the Fa Cup! Southgate for all the hype has won - ZERO and they will not win euros unless Bellingham is player of the tournament and drags them there himself. Kane will score of course but he has to step up as Captain and not just do it through scoring a few goals but by yanking up his teammates
Wasn't TONY BARTON ENGLISH. VILLA 82 EUROPEAN CUP WIN
Correct. Ron Saunders was English having won the 81 league title
Joe Fagan won the European Cup in 1983/84
How many non-English managers did Simon Jordan hire when he was a chairman?
Because we're a complacent bunch. We seem to leave too many things to chance.
There is no world class English manager in last 30 - 40 years .
dithering dave moyes is the best ever manager in the world ,,,,He proved it at Man U,,, a success wading through the cold rivers of austria for pre season training.
Sir bobby won it all home and abroad. well not all but titles in Holland and Portugal
A Scottish man talking About foreigners😂😂😂😂😂
English managers are not technically good enough . Pailsley and Clough were the best we had ,and it will remain that way.
English managers have been bone idle he says. Meanwhile he berates every english manager going at the minute i.e Eddie Howe.
When's the last time a English manager won the league
1992😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Howard Wilkinson with Leeds
What has Fergie and them been doing all those years of dominance and impact and inspiring the league. Couldn't inspire not one coach or style of play over all those decades?
That's one of the reasons people rate Pep higher than him
On the other hand you have managers trying to play the “Pep way” without having the players to do it and end up getting pumped left and right. I know, my team is one of them!!
@Adi-Dassler maybe they should try the Fergie way, the jose way, the Wenger way? Why hasn't anyone adopted anything from these guys ? . Arsenal, Brighton, Aston Villa, Tottenham, Brighton all play his style. United have nothing, so they are trying to copy everything City, That's the leagues top 8 clubs. Barring liverpools Gegenpressing employed by klopp, they all play a version of Peps style. English Players will only get technically better, and English coaches will have to develop tactically with the times.
@@rakimrobinsonMCFC I was more referring to much lower levels. My team --Dundee United, are now relegated and playing some of the most boring tippy tappy, out from the back stuff I've seen during my lifetime. Whether that's inspired by Guardiola or not you would have to ask the coach.
@Adi-Dassler it looks like that now because it's not the English kick and run, rugby football that they're used to. It will take time for the players to develop...It is a shift in English footballing philosophy.
This is why England will struggle to win the WC or Euros, the foreign players help elevate the English players in the domestic league but when it comes to playing for England they get found out.
If no English manager is managing a top team in the Premier League, how can they manage the national team with the best England players. Makes no sense.
Let Pep manage England and Man City at the same time, change the format so he can do both. England will win everything. Pep will create the system for them to win.
no they don't.......the pool of English players has drastically depleted and what's left has been shoehorned into defensive positions/ water carriers...all the ugly positions which in turn makes ppl think England's style is ugly
if you forget about technique and the cloned academized way that player's of today control, receive and pass that yall 'wow at'......only harry kane breaks into a 90's England team.
England used to produce 3 or 4 different types of wingers ....same with mids/ strikers....and they are all gone....the assembly line got shut down and all that's allowed to be exist are 'ambassador roll players' like grealish and Henderson.
its the equivalent of only having Dennis wise to pick from in the 90s.
They replaced English keepers coz they cant play out from back ! ...which 1. they can ....2. you see more errors then ever with todays keepers playing out from back
and what's the point of winning if u cant do it yourself
Sir Bobby Robson was amazing coach, amazing person, innovative, strong. Just loved him.
If you look at current English managers, I like Eddie Howes style of play. High line, aggressive, direct, counter pressing, fast. But he has Joelinton and Bruno and Gordon and Almiron who play this way.
Maybe English managers are scared / put off by / can’t handle the media? Probably foreign managers don’t take the British media too seriously
The traditional media isn’t as destructive as it used to be.
The toxicity now comes from social media.
I prefer Gary O’Neill
It's embarrassing to call yourself the best league in the world when they can't produce one English manager to win the league (last being in 1992)
globalisation kid.. still the best in the world tho
Doesnt take away the fact its still the best league.
Thats a silly thing to s say .. whats the correlation in the best league to English managers.. none!!!!! There's no English tennis player in the top 20 world top 20 players. Nor Golf right now. So to have a couple of managers that are English is an achievement in today game.
@happyapple4269 the foreign players make it the best league, not the English players. That mentality shows exactly what is wrong. Rather be the best league then develop world class managers!!
@@richarda3514 how can you develop world class managers in a cut throat league.. Once upon a time English managers won 7/8 European cups and then heisel followed by the PL stifled that
So Souness is saying its because of interviews? You've got to be kidding me...
Jock Stien, he never managed in England though!
Foreign managers can work anywhere in the world. English managers stay doggedly in England.
No English manager has been successful abroad apart from bobby Robson.
Terry Venebles did well at Barcelona. Roy Hodgson was another who did well.
How about Bill Nicholson? 🤷🏼♂️ no mention