Caste and invisible biases of the Savarna mind
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- čas přidán 10. 05. 2023
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I am Vimoh, an Indian atheist and my videos have to do with religion, atheism, Indian culture, and sometimes contemporary political happenings.
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It's alright for Ashwin to not understand the where this 'unbiased-ness' is coming from. One cannot expect that a 15 minute conversation will suddenly make you unshackle from your mental model. The good thing is that he's on a path now.
In the place where I'm from, Bhramins are always the first to mention their caste, then they dive into details like all those ranks within the bhramin community and other stuffs. They just love showing they are upper caste, specially when you meet them for the first time. Don't know if its a thing everywhere. Is it ?
Yup , been to many places and the same story.
Same thing happens in university a lot. Imagine how worse conditions are in the society. 😢
Oohhhh it is
it’s everywhere…castes to bammans is like water to fish ….
yep in person they already boast a lot but its severely worse on social media where one does not need to reveal their true identity. people there go as far as degrading other lower castes and even telling them that the discrimination does not even exist apart from giving them shit about reservation, its quite ironical ( since they are being casteist) and deeply disgusting
Basically it all boils down to the point that you can't accept the fact that your ancestors were oppressors. It takes time. Happened to me also. Being Anticaste for savarna is not easy. Our DNA itself is repulsive to it. Like Thenmozhi Sounderrajan says.
What is this obsession a lot of people have with being 'unbiased'? There is no such thing as 'unbiased.' Everyone has perspectives and opinions. It is impossible to paint a 100% complete picture of any topic. The best you can do is be honest and open about your biases. People who claim to be unbiased are either lacking in self awareness or lying.
100% don't exist in reality when someone say they are being unbiased it means they are just not making claims or opinions because of personal reasons but because of logic and rationality.
Kong Speaks, To be based is natural to human life. It cannot be eradicated but it can be moulded towards a desired goal. From childhood train everyone to be biased towards being an Indian and also biased towards science and technology and most importantly baised towards progress and development. So finally there will be Indians who love India 😂😂are scientific tempered and progress oriented. Thus there will be no superstitions like religion, caste, creed and complexion issues.
I think it only makes sense that we try to be as unbiased as possible, knowing that we can never be completely impartial.
Exactly
Is this how you justify not having basic human decency to not discriminate ? You guys are maestro of gaslighting
Hi Ashwin, consider this example. Indian constitution gives equal rights to every person. A bare reading of the Indian constitution shows that everything in this country is alright and no one is discriminated against. However, in news you will find everyday that some kid from DBA community is getting killed or trashed because they try to enter and drink water from a temple tap. 50 years down the line, if you will read the constitution for the first time and consider it to be an “unbiased” source, you will see that it actually has provisions against discrimination and untouchability. And by reading it you will conclude that since the constitution came into force, nothing bad happened in India. But the reality is actually very different, which you won’t be aware of unless you read what the lived experiences of the people who suffer every day and every hour because of their caste have to say about the prevailing social conditions. You will presume that your study of constitution is unbiased, and you have done the right thing by taking up that task. But it will be far from reality of what actually happened. Text is one thing, practice and lived experiences are another. I hope I made myself clear. There is no problem in you starting with any of the scriptures and their translations, but know that it is not the whole truth and doesn’t reflect the reality of the society.
Very well explained 💯
That is a great perspective. Thank you.
👏
Maine 26 yrs tak positive aspects hi pdhe hai life me apne , then maine literal texts pdhe not with fancy English and terms fir mujhe itni mysogyny mili in texts like valmiki ramayan 😷😷
Give examples
@@stanley2563apne sakracharyo ko sun lo,aurato ko vedo ke shlok parne se pabandi hai
Vaise sarehi dharm bekaar ,lekin yeah dharam castist aur mysogynist hai
@@kindatheist4216 who's sakrocharyo and why is he mine
@@kindatheist4216 baaki dharm misogynist nahi hai kya?
I learn a lot by listening to Vimoh
Ashwin wants to find a critical commentary of casteism - but not too critical. Maybe like 40-50% critical.
lol
read 1-2%
He Is saying that he doesn't want to read commentaries but analyse the text himself so that he can understand it well. Don't understand what's wrong with it
According to this version, Shambuka, a shudra ascetic, was killed by the god Rama (protagonist of the Ramayana) for attempting to perform tapas (austerities) in violation of dharma, resulting in the bad karma which caused the death of a Brahmin's son.
डॉ. आंबेडकर का नाम सुनते ही बेटा बॅलेंस खो बैठा😂😂😂
It sounds a little impractical, but if someone is genuinely interested in understanding the perspective of the oppressed then there is a very very simple way. Just go to a dalit basti and live with them for a month, eat like them, dress like them, talk like them. After returning from the trip analyze your observations...
Sounds like something a tollywood protagonist would do to impress the girl he likes
@@stanley2563 still its a good idea
@@ashilyjustin4748 yeah. You should give it a try
@@stanley2563 lived in close proximity near such an area for 7 yrs
@@ashilyjustin4748 why did you leave the area?
I really like the idea of disbalance that Vimoh pointed out. But think of it in spite of all the positive there had been done doubt that crept up and made take the cognizance of it being not so clean and PE add it was painted. I think once the doubt is planted the battle has begun. He will evolve. This was precisely the reason Buddha's father didn't want any doubt to be planted in his mind. I loved the talk. Vimoh you are really wonderfully handling this. Congrats 👏
Sir u are doing amazing work.
A message to Vimoh: Make all your content in Hindi to increase the visibility as most of the "oppressed" janta is not that much educated...
I get why you are trying to direct him towards critical sources, but if you already knew about the Penguin publisher's Bhagavad Gita, why didn't you provide him that source from the beginning?
It sounded to me like Misra was asking to form his own understanding about what pieces of scripture were being unfairly weaponized for the sake of being the casteist's talking points. So that he can be better armed in a debate. I see nothing wrong with knowing the opponent's position better in that case.
Because he didn't need more scriptures. He needed more criticism of scriptures.
@@vimoh yes, I hear you say that in the video. Repeatedly. I agree with you and the commentators here: he is trying to course correct by debating with his family and winning that debate using unbiased sources. A great place to start as long as he doesn't stop there.
But you've probably seen by now that winning debates doesn't happen by just contradicting the opponent. It happens also by seeing through their logical fallacies and their motivations. A little foundation in the context can help with that. It puts him in the position of knowing what part of the "scriptures" was misrepresented to him.
@@hithasrivatsan3940I was wondering the exact same thing
I did not have so much clarity about myself. This is exactly what I wanted to do. You put my thoughts and words better than I did.
@@hithasrivatsan3940
He was asking for the original transalations so that he can study them himself and analyse how oppresive they were. Don't understand whats wrong with that.
"We r wrong , they were right..they should win"❤
we tend to choose good aspects of a scripture in our favor or our cast "s Favour when we try to read unbiased book.
Killer answer 1:30 😂😂😂😂 vimoh 🙌
Sir you are doing amazing work
I request you to make video on debunking claim that schrodinger, hisenberg, Oppenheimer developed / stole principal of quantum dynamics from our vedas
I know it true that schrodinger used to admire vedanta philosophy but it not possible he derived eqn from those scripture
I second that. Also the claim that swami vivekanand gave truth about matter and energy interchangeability to tesla in his letters to him way before Einstein.
@@alpeshmittal3779 what are your thoughts about these claims
@@alpeshmittal3779 tell me
Yes, they need it. Exactly as people of lower caste need it. You think it is easy to get to the role of Twitter ceo?
The question is, who is becoming Twitter ceo easier for?
No. The question was should "savarna" people be inspired by success of someone of same caste. In a global setting, with Jews and other high achievers, insane competition, optics and what not, "savarna" people can be inspired. It wasn't about who had it easiest.
@@ananyapatil7552 I think the question is whether we need to classify people as 'savarna' or the opposite in order to celebrate their success.
I always see Vimoh unbiased but in this video, Vimoh looked biased, Or was biased? I don't know, probably I can be wrong
Obviously he is biased, no one can be called unbiased
@@himanshushekhardas1730 I will decide that after seeing his reasons, after talking to him, Right now it's 50-50 possibility for me
I have seen people getting admission in IITs and AIIMS having scores in a single digit due to cast based reservation. India keeps reserved kota doctors and engineers and general category merit based talent is hired by USA. No wonder our bridges collapse in rain and people die because of poor diagnosis in government hospitals. But guess what? These so called woke people would never talk about that.
Nobody is even discussing the alternatives to it. For example, reservation should be based on economical backgrounds and not casts, our legal system should be improved, a non negotiable discrimination law can be enforced, police can be improved to handle things better so that anyone can complain like it happens in west.
The level of ignorance and arrogance you show man, it's so shameful...at the time of parents professors meet in IIT there is a different room in which the kids and parents of SC/ST are to be sat down diffrent from the general students and stop the fake propaganda of getting admission in AIIMS on single digit marks, due to caste reservation, you are topping over the Lies written in hindu scriptures, moreover there is EWS introduced by government which is totally unconstitutional because the salary cap is about 8 lacs...the students and people from Sc/st are deprived of good positions in systematic level by reviewing them out in the interviews, the ones who score good marks in written exams, magically score quite less in the interviews in comparison to the general(upper caste) who scored less marks. Now before answering on this comment, ask your nearest RELATIVES from SC/ST community on your thoughts and if you can't find any , there you get the answer of requiring a caste based reservation.
Bridges are collapsing coz uppercaste businessmen are getting the tender on the basis of corruption, the best medical care in the world right now is of india...the dirt coming out of your mouth about "misdiagnosis" is due to your ignorance of reality, go look for the people who got rank 1 in the corrupt NEET ug, Most of them are uppercaste hindus and remaining are well off obc's...check your facts first before puking all the gobar you have been fed from your social circle
Are tunni no ones get admission in n IIT and AIIMS with a single digit score and those going to USA are already rich and privileged. Ur mind is filled bhi gobar and heart with gomutra. And u completely drown in hatred against lower caste. The bridges collapse just find the engineer who were the architect or handling the projects they all uppercaste even teh contractors and the one who supplied the material all are uppercaste HINDUS. And lots of uppercaste meritorious hindus have been caught smuggling organs running organs rackets. The famous delhi kidney racket scam was run by UPPERCASTE HINDU doctors. The fake abortion clinic in Maharashtra the doctor caught was kulkarni brahmin another UPPERCASTE HINDU.
Yeah all those doctors and workers were reserved category. Rest are in US 🤡.
You can't oppress people for 1000 years and the celebrate equality at the end of the day.
Misra ji trying so hard 🤡🤡
He is actually trying to be a better person. No need to unnecessarily clown on him.
@@AndT101 yep but vimoh ne btaya ki ap positive aspects hi dekhte aae ho then you should try some other texts which are commentary on classic one's unko ye baat easily smjhn nhi aa rhi...like kch log kehte godi media postive dikhata to other side negative show krta but other side kitna viewership rkhta hai wo bhi imp hai usme bhi balance bnane lge cool dikhne ke lie to fir log cherry picking krenge 😅😅
@@ashilyjustin4748 bhaiya caste conditioning bahut khatarnak chiz hoti hai. This is actually true for any historically oppressive-oppresed group dynamic, you'll find well meaning white men who still to this day believe colonialism was extremely beneficial to the people from subcontinent, no matter how much you expose them to the contrary, similarly its difficult to let go of Savarna conditioning without constant tussle.
@@sukritdubey2630 😅😅
No need to mention ji after his surname. Just bcz he has an entitled surname
What are ur views on Kerala story??
Movie & propaganda both flopped. As people have better things to struggle with..
Which one 32k or mere 3 after court verdict?😂
There was no such story in real
cast sucks!
This is just bashing. He is hammering that you should see and read biased negatives of caste. Why? What would that individual be? Just a hatred filled individual about his own self. Not even a little bit confident or proud about his own.
Confident and proud of what? The fact that his ancestors were oppressors?
@@vimohthe same kind of people who say : "Don't spread negativity" when you confront them with facts regarding an injustice.
It's already there, not "spreading" it wouldn't solve it. Infact there is a better chance of solving issues by encouraging more discussion.
Why should we be proud of a socially created abstract concept that has brought nothing but pain and suffering to people?