Why We Talk About Tiberius
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2024
- Please enjoy my final video about Tiberius Stormwind as played by Orion Acaba on the “Vox Machina” campaign of “Critical Role.”
This project is unofficial fan content and is not approved or endorsed in any way by Critical Role.
CW: Ablism, strong language
Chapters:
00:00:00 - Prologue
00:03:49 - Part I - A Recap of Critical Role Episode 27, “The Path to Whitestone”
00:15:28 - Interlude - Reflecting on My First Tiberius Video
00:34:18 - Part II - The Troubling Behavior from Episode 27
00:56:02 - Interlude II - Okay, Let’s Talk About the Joke
00:57:11 - Part III - Why We Talk About Tiberius
01:04:47 - Outro
A more comprehensive timeline of events regarding Orion's departure from Critical Role and the subsequent fallout: / orion
You don’t have to watch the full episode, but if you want to, you can watch the full episode here:
Episode 27 - The Path to Whitestone
• The Path to Whitestone...
Timecodes:
Orion Says He Isn’t Metagaming: 00:28:13
Orion Jokes About Tiberius’ Half-Chub: 1:31:30
Tiberius’ Errands: 2:18:40 - 2:31:30
Tiberius’ Additional Errands: 2:36:28 - 2:43:22
Andrea’s Theme Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
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I Knew a Guy Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
Walking Along Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
Fast Talkin Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
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Lasting Hope Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
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The Pyre Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
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#dnd #dungeonsanddragons #criticalrole #legendofvoxmachina
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Matt clarified in a Tweet at some point that Allura was interested in Tiberius until he killed that old lady. Prior to that, he did have a good chance at successfully romancing her.
Very fair tbh
Wasn't that the last time he ever saw her and several episodes after her and Kima was already established? I know Tibs didn't give up even though he was the first to realize that Allura and Kima was a thing, but I didn't think he ever really had a shot with her.
@@alftuvik3820 She could have been interested in both but closer with kima. Though completely agree that there was no way Tibs had a chance in the long run with the way he acted
@@alftuvik3820 Allura and Kima weren't established. All they did was hug and Tiberius' (actually Orion's) fragile ego took that as them being romantically involved (yelling something like "come on, Matt, really?!?!" as if he had earned a romantic relationship in game). That's even though he and Allura had a "date" booked, and things were going his way until he fucked it up by murdering an old lady while she was running away. It wasn't until ages later, long after he had left the show, that Allura and Kima was confirmed, (and I wonder if Matt got the idea from that exact moment tbh).
I always felt that situation with the old lady was very unfair. I get what Matt was doing, but up and to that point, extreme violence against human enemies was framed in a fun and adventurous way. The person attacked him and he responded in the way DnD expects. Matt's descriptions could easily apply to other enemies they've killed.
Frankly I'm impressed that Matt managed to get through all of Orion's errands in 13 minutes.
You’re not wrong, even when my party of 5 players does something like that can make one player take around 20 if it’s super weird and I have to look stuff up, and that’s by saying “I buy X, X, X in X amount for X” mainly because my players usually have to math, and I have to estimate the costs, but still
He probably could've just asked him to write up a list and then gone down it making rulings in a more concise fashion
I have a player that takes 20 minutes to do a single errand and it makes me feel bad that I have to literally talk over him to make him stop talking otherwise we wouldn’t go anywhere. He’s one of my best friends, but this thing has literally killed a campaign before, when the master wasn’t me, but another friend who was an unexperienced GM, unlike myself, and didn’t know how to limit him. Recently I just said to him that the way he played that character was what killed that campaign, and that’s why now I have to limit him more than I’d done in the past.
In another game system a lot of the requests might have been reasonable. Trying to weaponize a mist spell with holy water might be something I'd allow in a system that is less tied to videogame-like constraints as D&D. I could totally see someone like Harry Dresden to it in a Jim Butcher novel, so why not in game? edit: Thinking more about it, OSR would be more like that as well. Thinking outside the rules is usually encouraged since the rules are more open.
@@RecklessFables I agree that creativity is great, and should be welcome. But it needs to be balanced with reading the room, and understanding the situation. For example, this scenario was *clearly* Percy's scenario. It was his past they were reckoning with. So if Tiberius wanted to try *one* thing that'd be cool. But trying 25 ways to cheese the encounter that another PC's entire backstory is based on is just extremely tone-deaf. And again also, moderation. Don't try to invent 6 different weapons / items in a single shopping outing lol.
I never realized Orion posted on your first video. I agree, that's awesome he was able to speak up and explain/defend himself in a very appropriate way. It must be challenging when some people treat him like Voldemort.
Which video... Can't seem to find the post...
@@AggroJordan86you can see his comment at 32:20
Dude never apologized to women he abused and to Kickstarter backers he doxxed. Fuck him
Yeah, like dude definitely was a problem at the table, but the way folk talk about them youd think je devoured there new born baby ij front of them. Like dude just has what tons of people had, main character syndrome and the desire to win to the point he would cheat. Now these two things could easily be addtessed when its just a house game for fun with friends but they were trying to put on a show and that just didnt meld so orion had to go, but if i had never seen the episodes and behavior for myself id have thought dude was a mass murderer eith how some folks describe him.
@@ProperlyGamingpart of that stems from him apparently being very shitty to romantic partners and evidently stealing proceeds from a gofundme he set up to help someone, and a couple other non-game related things
Your videos don’t just help players recognize their own problematic behavior. It also helped me, a relatively inexperienced dm, realize what had been bothering me about one of my own players behavior. I used some of your videos to help me point out the things that were bothering me and it really helped. The conversation ended up solving the issues we had in a pleasant and respectful way. So, thanks a million!!
I’m so glad to hear that!! 😁
Lots of times, just having a rational conversation, where you are able to SPECIFY "This is what bothers me AND WHY," the person will be able to say, "Oh! I didn't realize. Thanks for showing me," and make the necessary changes. In the case of long-standing habits, you can set up a reminder word, so that you don't have to have the long conversation all over again. You just say, "Jenga," or whatever, and the person goes, "Oops! Sorry." And then they stop doing the thing, and move on. We can all use that kind of conversation from time to time. The most difficult part is putting the WHY into words, in the first place.
I have learned that if a person understands WHY something is an issue, or something is changing, they are almost always willing and able to make the changes needed. WHY is the key.
@@AuntLoopy123 While true, it does also depend on said person WANTING to change. Which is most people, but not everyone.
AND THATS HOW A DM IS SUPPOSE TO HANDLE THE SITUTATION .....YOU DONT DEMONIZE AND TOSS AWAY YOUR FRIENDS ...shame on crit role and shame on teh fan base for the awful way they treat orion and the horrible way matt handled that situtation
@@xXDDKJefferyXx a little over the top, but I basically agree that all of the items people point at **on the stream** are very easily solvable with simple conversations and agreement on rules and world-building. That said, I have no idea what was happening between streams, off-screen and in their personal lives. And actually, maybe they did have those conversations off screen and it just didn't work to get everyone playing the way they wanted to play...
"People like to invent monsters and monstrosities. Then they seem less monstrous themselves. When they get blind-drunk, cheat, steal, beat their wives, starve an old woman, when they kill a trapped fox with an axe or riddle the last existing unicorn with arrows, they like to think that the Bane entering cottages at daybreak is more monstrous than they are. They feel better then. They find it easier to live." - Geralt of Rivia, a Witcher.
♥️♥️♥️
He’s a Witcher
Toss a coin to your Witcher.
Geralt of Rivia, who thinks he knows far more than he actually does, and thinks he is far wiser than he actually is.
@@Ares99999 lol you must not know the Witcher very well lol
I a way, I think no episode lives up to “demystified” more than this. Fans tend to put CR on a pedestal, "they have amazing players", "Matt is peak DM world-building", "the Briarwoods Arc and Calamity were the best D&D storylines ever" etc. but for a while they had That Guy on the table, perhaps the most famous That Guy in the world...in the end as much as we glorify them for the contributions to the hobby we gotta remember they’re just a bunch of nerdy-ass voice actors who sit around and play Dungeons and Dragons.
Obligatory: [deep Travis voice bellowing] "We play Dungeons and Dragons!"
I have been both the Orion player, the player at the table with the Orion, I have been the DM dealing with that, and to some extent witnessed a player being labeled as a problem player when the issues lied partially with the DM/players. Having watched the episodes with Orion and then these videos. Orion did display a lot of problematic behaviours. I also think there was some things that Matt didn't handle well.
"we gotta remember they’re a bunch of nerdy-ass voice actors who sit around and play Dungeons and Dragons" ...so that... what?
@@Ares99999 I think OP was trying to say that, as amazing as Critical Role is, they are still human beings playing the same game we all do. They aren't gods, or avatars of perfect D&D.
Having to deal with a That Guy is one of the most humanizing parts of the Critical Role experience.
I was also one of the "that guys" trying to be in the limelight and your videos have seriously helped me learn and get better at being a friend in general
So glad I could help ♥️
As a sidenote, I do actually like a lot of ideas that were set up about Draconia, and how things play out after it is destroyed. The Wildemount campaign guide has some cool things happening there related to ongoing humanitarian issues as well as the former underclass setting up of a new state. I would imagine there might be some discomfort returning, but I hope one day we're able to revisit it.
I feel like the whole situation between the Draconbloods and Ravinites after Draconia's fall was supposed to be Tiberius' spotlight arc, and putting his player aside, it would've been interesting to see how Tiberius the character would've reacted to coming to terms with the society he was part of being built on slavery. Played by someone who could've handled that gracefully, it might've been an interesting humbling moment and could've altered the trajectory of his arc.
Seeing you comment a non-timestamp-guide comment is like seeing a famous actor eating at a sandwich shop
@@BigKlingy actually, Tiberius knew about the slavery thing and actively spoke out against it. It’s just that no one in his family took him seriously, hence why he went out to collect specific magical items he learned about as a way to impress and build some respect in his family.
@@BlackOwl1997 I'll have to look back at some of the episodes, but I seem to remember someone high-up in Tal'dorei being a Dragonborn without a tail. They had a lot of animosity towards Tiberius and he acted in a way that implied he didn't fully grasp the implications. But I haven't seen those episodes in a long time so I could be wrong.
@@BigKlingy same here but In fairness, Tiberius tended to get overly defensive the second someone talked back at him Examples: Allura with the old lady, Kima with that Clarota(I think that’s how you spell his name.) So even if he was on someone’s side, he’d still defend himself regardless of his personal beliefs. I’m mainly basing my knowledge off two things: 1. Those tidbits they did for characters in the first couple episodes which basically spoiled backstory’s, mainly Percy’s.
2. And when Vox Machina requested a statue be built of Tibs due to his support over the enslaved Dragonborn
Dude, you are a class act. You are doing videos about one of the most overanalyzed, demonized figures in tabletop gaming, and you never cease to treat him with unwavering empathy. You make me feel like the That Guys of this world really can turn their act around. Excellent video and thanks for doing this.
The whole Orion situation is so sad. Imagine if he had been healthy and doing well, he might've still been playing with them and having fun. The saddest part is seeing what could've been. He had his moments, where Tiberius was such a great character and really did a lot for the group, but mostly he was just in the way of everyone else and breaking the game. It sucks. I'm glad he's healthy now, but it's awful that he had to be unhealthy to begin with.
I feel the same about Brian in the present day. What he had been allegedly doing is inexcusable, BUT I genuinely want to believe he used to be a good guy until his mental health deteriorated.
@@GregJonsonidk I feel a little more comfortable offering sympathy to someone going through addiction, whose crimes were playing dnd badly and making weird jokes. Rather than offering the same sympathy to someone who has made themselves a threat to another person and their family and seemingly committed real life abuse.
@@Taylor-gb5gf who are you referring to?
@@lotfiallam5403 Brian Foster, from Critical Role. He ran a series called Between the Sheets, and was married to Ashley. Turns out, he (allegedly) threatened and harmed Ashley and her family, and has since been fired and had a restraining order placed against him.
@@hirocheeto7795 Crap I didn't know that, I liked his show and was wondering why he wasn't around anymore (I finished campaign 2 in late 2022) but didn't dig into it.
I'm dumbfounded and wish the best for all the people who suffered from it.
I think the "why we talk about it" question is very important.
I've been playing for decades, but almost all of it as a DM, and was horrified to realize that I was a "problem player" in the most recent campaign I played in... And I was very grateful (and embarrassed) when the DM contacted me between sessions to go over what I was doing and why it was a problem.
My "trying to be helpful" was stepping over the DM, and getting in the way of him making rulings, and I needed to learn how to only talk on my turn. (something that never comes up when DMing :P)
Same here. Former DM just trying to have fun and be a player. But when our DM hesitates on a question I have to really restrain myself from offering every answer. This is his game, not mine. I was "very helpful" when we got our campaign started but now I have learned to STFU and let everyone else, DM included, to just play the game. I still struggle with it though.
@@testfire3000I think it's a curse of many DM turned players, myself included. We get so used to HAVING to be the ones with the answers, that it's hard not to revert to that, especially when we know definitively what the answer is. We all struggle with keeping our mouths shut and ears open.
One of my tables is literally me DMing for three experienced DMs, and one player who DMed a few times too. They all have the green light to let me know when they notice I messed up the rules. But they are also VERY good at immediately accepting my ruling and moving on, even if it seems to be out of line with RAW. And when it's not deliberate but actually a mistake, I'm always grateful to have this safety net.
@@dziooooo yeah, I play in a game closer to that too... it's literally one of my long term players running for me and the rest of our normal group when I'm feeling burned out. So in *That* game, giving rules advice is much appreciated, and the expectation... Which made it Much harder to avoid with a different group 😝
I have family members that deal with substance abuse issues and don't want to get better, don't even want to make an effort to. So much so that my mom and stepdad had to adopt their kids with fetal alcohol syndrome because they couldn't take care of them. So I'm VERY happy to hear orion was able to find the strength and courage to not only make an effort, but actually beat his addictions.
If you’re watching this Orion and Reading through the comments. I just want to say congrats on overcoming not only your health issues, addictions, and trying to own up to your mistakes in the past. I may not know what it feels like to be under all of it. But what I do know is that pain and addiction changes people and can bring out their worst traits. It takes strength and lots of self-reflection to not only see you have problem, but also knowing you made bad decisions and decide to learn from them rather than just trying to forget about it. So congrats for that. Hope you’re doing well dude.
As someone who has watched your whole Demystified series, seeing how you apply analysis, reflection and criticism to not only the CR's VM series but also to your (past) self is really refreshing and shows how much your content and you as a content creator has grown in over a year. Thanks for the amazing content
Thank you!
Yeah. I have to admit, seeing your "Critical Role" clips, which were actually clips of YOU doing the thing you were just talking about, was pretty boss!
I really respect Orion for posting on your first video and admitting what he went through. It's difficult to admit stuff like that, and to do so where thousands can read, is even more difficult. I hope with all my heart that he is doing well and turned his life around, and I hope that he made up with the cast of Critial Role to make amends. Orion, if you read this, take care of yourself.
Because the fight against Vorugal takes place in Draconia, it would be really fun if they bring Orion back and make Tiberius a guest character for that part of the Chroma Conclave arc, but obviously, CR doesn't have to do that if they aren't comfortable with it.
See, now I'm gonna want to find Orion's comment, and I'm not going to be able to.
@@MaxxCoyote I looked, didn't find it. Was it just not pinned or did he delete it?
@@henrymartinvo No clue.
I don’t believe it. He has a history of “admitting wrong and apologising” and then just doing it all over again. That was one of his big issues.
Lots of respect, both to you for addressing Orion's behavior as respectfully as you did, and to Orion for owning up to his fuck-ups in the early episodes of campaign 1. As a fellow addict, I wish him only the best.
I think giving details about Tiberius and giving this part of critical role the same respect as any other part is essential for the series this is. I've used multiple episodes to improve my own campaign and its kinda surprising how unique your type of DnD education content is and I love it ❤.
30:24 I know this is mostly a serious video but the thought of Mike looking at Orion and going “That Stupid looking Vest, I hate it!!!!” Is a little chuckle worthy lol
When saying you once were the Tiberius in your own games, it helped me understand why this would be a topic to speak about, and why you went so in depth with it.
Thank you, Dustin ☺️
Sam made a character that he other players knew was going to say something inappropriate, sexual or otherwise, so they where ready for it to happen. Tiberius joke came out of left field. It wasn't something his character was known for, so it caught everyone off guard.
Additionally, Scanlan's jokes are typically self depreciating or targeted at npcs. If he does say something crass about the girls, he gets his cumupits. Tiberius's "joke" was just I'm horny. He hadn't established a romantic plot with Vex to have it be a somewhat serious statement, nor did he establish himself as a perv to be made fun of like Scanlan.
To add on, Orion said the joke out of character which I think added to everything above, whereas most of Scanlan’s are delivered in character and fit his character.
@bmprelude This is the biggest problem to me.
A lot of the off-colour Scanlan jokes are IC words or actions.
They are things that can be reacted to IC.
By presenting this information as he does and then saying the other characters don't know he prevented them from being able to react without "metagaming".
It ends up just feeling gross and something being forced into the game vs a piece of a character/story that the others could also have fun with.
I think its linked in some way to his main character complex. With the popularity the streaming got and the gifts and praises some characters/players got (Sam), I think he wanted that, but instead of gaining it in his own character's way, he copied a little bit of everyone and his character stoped to hold his place in the team. At the end, he was not just annoying and innapropriate, he also filled no particularly role anymore.
@@joshkorte9020 comeuppance*
You're an awesome guy, takes a brave person to own up to past mistakes and reflect humanely on another's actions in a constructive manner. Massive respect, found you recently, staying for more content. Thank you.
Thank you!
Hear hear
Like Alex "RoboCop" Murphy said at the end of RoboCop 2: "We are only human"
I've been really enjoying the critical role breakdowns, it's really interesting to hear your perspective!
Thank you!
I think the key take away to remember is that, like us, the Critical Role team are human. Orion had growing to do. Marisha had growing to do. Sam had growing to do. Laura had growing to do. We forget that a handful of them at the table (like Sam) were new to the game, were playing by new rules (5e vs 3e) or hadn't played for some time. And the key is to learn if your energy matches the table. Orion had a different energy and expectation of the game. If I'm being honest, I would struggle to play in a game with Sam. While it doesn't excuse some of the things he did, it's important to remember he is a human that made mistakes and lost chemistry with another group of people.
And this is why I like your approach. It humanizes people. Should we forever condemn Orion for the stuff done as Tiberius? Would it be fair of me to condemn (and probably face the critter community wrath) Sam because I find his humour in poor taste? I always look back and wonder why I didn't enjoy Campaign 1 as much as Campaign 2. And it's honestly as simple as finding the growing pains uncomfortable. I honestly had to revisit Campaign 1 after the second campaign started to give it a more fair chance. I'm glad I did. At some point, I realized the characters (and their players) grew in ways I didn't give them the chance to do. I dropped Campaign 1 just before the Briarwood Arc. Revisiting it, I still found some scenes difficult... but I'm glad I soldiered through it.
The interesting part in this conversation is that while so many have issues with Orion/Tiberius' behaviour - perhaps more than anything it was a dynamic mismatch (on top of whatever issues he had going on in his personal life).
Interestingly Sam/Scanlan bothered me more early on, there were just aspects that rubbed me the wrong way. But unlike Orion/Tiberius due to the parting of ways. I feel that the character grew over the campaign.
Funny enough by the end of it Scanlan was doing some of the multi-step tactics that Tiberius used to do early on. But generally doing them in such a way that it wasn't constantly hogging the spotlight away from other characters.
Yeah, Laura wasn't a saint in those early episodes. More than a few times, Matt got visibly frustrated with her trying to negotiate a better outcome for an action, after he'd already ruled on the skill check. Of course, Laura quickly changed her behaviour and became way more accepting of when things didn't quite go according to her plans. Not to mention that it was a relatively minor issue compared to what Orion was doing.
Considering what Orion was like as a person out of the character, both on the table and out of it, how he treated the fans, and his partners. Yeah, it's fair. No excuses, Orion is terrible person.
@@bessieburnet9816 *was a terrible person.
I once DMed for a player who was a lot like Sam. He lacked the deeper aspects of the roleplaying, so it often felt like he didn't care about the story beats of the game, which made it hard to care for his character genuinely, since it seemed like just a joke character
A problem I've always had with the "We don't talk about Tiberius" thing is that it made it really hard to find out how Orion is doing now. It's really good to hear his health has improved.
He made himself seem like the kind of person no one wanted to get to know… it’s not our fault that we never wanted to see if he was better or not.
I agree! I've heard the CR cast are on better terms with him now though, which is nice. He was in a terrible spot for a while and I'm glad he's doing better.
Why should we care about him?
I'm sorry, forgive me if I'm wrong but isn't Orion an abuser? Why would I give af about what he's doing?
@@brooklyn113 he is? im not surprised but can u elaborate?
Thank you for expanding on this. Your first Tiberius video was my first time getting most of the story behind why he left. Before, I assumed the DnD Fandom was being toxic as usual when they celebrated him leaving because he 'annoyed' them. Since then, I've learned he himself had very toxic behaviors, albeit somewhat because of the bad mindset he was in at the time.
"toxic as usual"? seems like I've been missing on a lot of things since I stopped watching after campaign 1
@@Gurianthe most of them were in C1, noticeably less in C2 and C3
@@Gurianthe As martophrenia said, vast majority of the toxicity from the D&D community--at least the most vocal--was from C1. Namely the toxicity surrounding another player on the cast who was subject to a lot of online abuse, only for many of those people to change their tone once said player began to play a very different character in C2. The toxicity hasn't gone away, to be clear, but it was certainly at its most vocal and visible during C1.
@@Gurianthe Two months late, but I was also referring to the fandom's toxicity in general, not just in regards to Critical Role. The "if you don't play the way I do, you're playing it wrong" mentality they often have with almost every actual play show.
If anything, these videos show the value of being able to accept constructive criticism. If someone at the table is doing something problematic, there's a chance they may not be aware it's a problem. A good player would accept that they messed up, learn from it and be thankful someone pointed it out so they can improve.
These videos are definitely good for that, and they're something that the critical role community especially badly needs. I think part of the reason people end up being so frustrated by critical role's effect on the larger D&D/TTRPG community is that the critical role community is extremely anti-criticism on the whole. Parasocial relationships can turn bad in any online setting, but their particular version of bad tends to lean toward a kind of toxic positivity where criticism is taken as a negative whether it's constructive or not, and that's not great thing to have going on in the context where a lot of viewers are developing their understanding of how TTRPG's work and how they ought to be played. It's a service to all players to compose respectful criticisms of where critial role missteps, to help people who are trying to learn from the show take the kind of messages away from it that lead to being a good player (in the sense of a player other people will actually enjoy playing with).
Orion was a great example of how a player should NOT act at a table. I'm really glad that he got the help that he needed and potentially seems to be doing better for himself now. It's great that you show a personal example of yourself acting that way to show that it's possible within anyone. The best thing to do is try and grow as a person and keep yourself in check. This video's got a great message.
When someone is just, consistently being disruptive/shitty your tolerance for little things that are only very slightly annoying (or that would even be endearing from someone else) evaporates. I think in that circumstance it is pretty normal to get annoyed at those things and it can actually be cathartic to complain about those little things.
There is a big difference between wearing a costume piece and wearing a LITERAL FLAMETHROWER.
*cough* fire starter at best *cough*
@@corksucker It might have been relatively harmless but In my opinion it doesn't matter because it made his fellow cast members/ friends at the table very uncomfortable and they repeatedly asked him not to wear/use it at the table.
Sure, caffeine (sarcasm), you say that so easily, because you don't OWN a flamethrower.. Perhaps you would view the situation differently if you did actually own a flamethrower..
Are there any flamethrower owners out there that would like to chime in on this..?!
..c'mon, I mean there's gotta be somebody..
@@user-tp9gy8kt2q I can use a regular bic lighter and do something similar to his wrist worn flame poof thing did, but bet your ass if I owned that wrist worn flame poof thing I'd wear that mother fucker every game lol.
Arguably, Marisha had a more dangerous character thing at the table when she was throwing hands and elbows at Liam all campaign 2 /s
Big ups for keeping it classy with not only including Orion's response, but also wishing him well.
I've also been/been on the receiving end of that kind of player, and seeing it pretty thoroughly dissected by you has been both cathartic and informative. To anyone who see these traits in a player, whether you be their DM, their adventuring partner, or the player in question, please point it out. It will ultimately lead to a healthier game, and hopefully a healthier friendship.
...and if you're the player with these traits, I urge you to self-reflect. Take a step back and consider the fun of others and how your enjoyment of the game might effect theirs. D&D is a collaborative game, not a single-player adventure, and the players are your friends, not your NPCs.
I got into Critical Role quite early. And initially I really enjoyed Tiberius. And then the Kavarn fight happened (I was still catching up at that point first live ep was somewhere in the early 20s) and I got really upset with both Tiberius and Orion because to me it was blatantly obvious that he was crippling the party and abandoning his friends by not joining in the fight. And that deeply upset me because clearly what he was doing wasn't working and he was powerful and could have helped fight the actual monster. Looking back I can now confidently say that this tainted my view of Tiberius for the rest of his time on the show. What didn't help is at the time I was playing with a guy who definitely suffered from main character syndrome and was 100000% THAT GUY which was deeply unpleasant. And the fact that he idolised Tiberius didn't help. Thank you for these clear and concise videos they have made me reflect a lot on how I play DnD and how I can be better as well without letting past experiences colour my behaviour
What annoyed me is that he was clearly trying to avoid entering a Beholder's Lair to avoid Lair Actions, which is clearly a mechanics-based mindset and, yes, damaged party cohesion and effectiveness.
Yeah, going in blind, that Beholder fight really pissed me off and it's weird no one makes a bigger deal about it. And then when he caught flak for it, didn't he mute Scanlan? That's jerk player 101.
yeah, this was the thing that put a really gross taste in my mouth from that point forward. and there were just consistent things throughout with his interactions others.
Your care for the betterment of players shines through. There is a humility and unvarnished honesty to what you say that I appreciate. You say every intro that this series is to discuss things that we can learn from CR as DMs or players, and I think that the focus on Tiberius grows out of the fact that in his episodes, he often seems to provide the most things to learn from, not that you are bashing him either as a person or a player. Thank you for this attitude, and keep up the good work!
As someone who struggles with insecurity and anxiety, table top is one of the few forums where I don't feel it at all, where I can 'feel myself' because I know the people around me are having a good time. But what if I wasn't sober and I couldn't tell when that changed? It's a humbling thought.
I'm a DM, I had a That Guy at my table we talked and he didn't know how to change what he was doing because he wasn't doing it on purpose. I showed him your video bc we were both relatively new to the space and were asking about Tiberius and getting nothing. We saw all your points and it really helped. He's been in that same campaign since and we've had no issues.
I appreciate how you humanized Orion by giving examples from your own game -acknowledging that no matter how bad his behavior may have been, it's not far outside of what any given person might have done. No one is below any of us and no one is unworthy of compassion and empathy
I think the vest thing isn’t annoying because of the vest. It’s annoying because it felt like him “getting his way” once again instead of respecting the groups wishes.
Thanks for wrapping up this material this way. Your opening with self-reflection is such an exemplary approach to a difficult topic. Also, I have to say, your writing is excellent, I love your wit.
Thank you!
I definitely came to your channel because of the original Tiberius video. Over the past year I feel like I’ve learned a lot watching you. Thank you for your time!
Thank you!
Well done. I didn’t realize that your first Tiberius video needed more nuance but it absolutely did and highlighting your own struggles paints your perspective and intentions perfectly.
Thank you ☺️
When I watched the episode with the mirrors I felt like Tiberius was trying to build some kind of invention out of the mirrors and sort of, stepping on Percy's area of expertise? Like I get that Taleisin doesn't necessarily need to own the idea of building inventions, but it felt a bit weird.
I think his plan was to reflect sunlight into vampire. Of course, with Telekinesis.
It was like when (I think) Laura rolled a crit and he jumped in and said he assisted with his magic. He kinda put himself into other people's schticks and situations.
He was also trying to train an animal to infringe on Laura's specialism, and was creating a melee weapon which presumably he wanted to buff in order to rank alongside Travis and Liam as a close combat heavy-hitter. Without Orion, we got more uninterrupted character moments like Scanlan as a triceratops.
I loved Tibbs so so dearly when I first started watching and the return to draconia later on in the campaign it did break my heart, He was a genuinely likeable and funny character in the earlier episodes.
Congrats on one year, Mike. I’m proud to say I came in shortly after you posted the first four videos, and I’m happy I subscribed. You’re cultivating a community based on respect first, and that’s rare on CZcams. It’s common as an attempt but rare as a success, and you’re succeeding. More power to you, brother.
I'm one of the people that found out your channel because I was trying to learn more about Tiberius. Thank you so much for all your videos and the hard work you've put into creating them. I feel like I've learned so much through your discussions and perspectives, not just when it comes to that character but also DnD in general. So thank you, you are one of the best DnD creators. Keep up the good work. :)
I really, really appreciate how you’ve spoken about this whole situation around Tiberius and Orion. As someone who started out really identifying with and liking Tiberius at the start, who also got a little of the “We don’t talk about Tiberius” vibe coming into the fandom, I honestly felt a little guilty researching the topic, and your videos have truly helped with understanding and coming to terms with some of my feelings on the subject. Also, as someone who will sometimes feel like people react to me the same way the cast react to Tiberius and Orion during the game, it’s very comforting and nice to know that you can recognize the behavior from your own games, and have you look at the behavior fairly and without just resorting to “this behavior sucks and we all know why”. You have such a balanced, fair, kind, understanding, welcoming and open view on DnD and its TTRPG siblings in general, and I really look forward to seeing what another year brings!
Damn, it's really been a year huh? Honestly you've made such a high quantity of videos that I thought this channel has been around for more than a year. Thanks for making all these top quality vids, there's always something here to encourage some critical thinking in either how I run my games or how I make my characters.
Here's to another great year! 🎉🎉🎉🎉
Thank you!
Your transparency takes a lot of bravery and heart and I hope you know just how much we admire and appreciate it. It's hard to show off ways you've failed or fumbled but you're able and willing to do it so that all of us can learn how to be better players and people. Congratulations on the one year anniversary, Mr. Rogers of D&D
I really appreciate your levelheaded approach to this topic. No backpedaling , just respectful discussion and owning up to mistakes and misunderstandings
Honestly, this is the perfect episode to encapsulate the fact that you and your channel are far more than just a "Critical Role" channel. You have shown a good bit of care and respect when talking about a subject that can easily just be turned into drama farm bait. In fact, that is exactly what I thought the first Tiberius episode was going to be; however, I was then presented with a level headed examination of some really poor events for any fandom to deal with. There were no personal attacks, there were no childish jokes in other people's expense, but it was just someone trying to give a good, non bias retelling of events as someone could. You aren't perfect, but the level of respect and decorum you showed goes a long way.
This is honestly why I keep coming back to your videos over and over again. You have a great way of presenting your passion to an audience without feeling haughty or holier than thou that is very common place in TTRPG and alike. I hope you continue this trend to furthering the growth of this awesome channel because it is sorely needed in the TTRPG space. Additionally, if anyone is seeing this that only really watches Mike's Critical Role video's, please give his other content a watch because it is honestly some of his best work. I personally recommend the evil ancestry video. Stay humble and keep up the good work.
Can't wait to watch this. Excited to see extra long-form doc content coming from you!
I started in c1 not long after Tiberius was gone. When rewatching from the start when I was sick I was excited to see this character that so many I saw talked about missing him. All I was seeing was a "dad that had to always be right, in charge, and felt they could do everything better then anyone else." Edit: Ultra happy he is doing better and got the help he needed.
That intro was beautiful. It had me questioning your motives and guessing what you meant by putting in those clips and it led to say what the whole video said in a matter of minutes. Subscribed
Thank you so much, Matt.
I’m grateful that you created that first video talking about Tiberius. Since then, I’ve learned a lot of lessons from you that have made me feel like I’m a better DM and player. I find more joy in helping others at the table have their own spotlight and I feel I’ve become less selfish in my real life as well. I hope you continue to make these insightful videos for as long as you can ❤
I really appreciate the introspection and honesty of this video. You've had my respect for a long time, this has only cemented it. Thanks for all the great work. :)
Learning from others mistakes or bad behavior is an incredibly useful way to grow, I appreciate your take on a constructive way to discuss this!
Absolute respect for your approach to these kinds of topics. Not just as abstract lessons, but also personal experience, showing how we can all fall short at times. We can all learn, and we can all improve, and if we can do it ourselves, we can for sure give that grace to others. It's definitely worth talking about, and your perspective is very appreciated.
So, sometimes I'll just pop in drop my usual "I like Mike comment" and save the video for when I have time to actually pay attention. That was the case for this one.
Well done, Mike. This is a FANTASTIC followup to the original Tiberius video. I'm especially impressed with how critical you are of yourself. It's been great watching you and your channel evolve over the past year and I can't wait to see what you have in store.
Thank you so much, Austin! I always appreciate your comments, by the way :)
I think I found you pretty early on because I was trying to figure out what happened with Tiberius. And I stayed because at the time you were the only thing I could find that discussed it openly, honestly, and fairly. Thanks for that! It’s probably why that video went so viral. A lot of us were very confused.
I've been looking forward to the episode 27 demystified and plan to watch every episode you upload, i've recently started listening to the campaign 1 critical role and am struggling to stay ahead of your video's I look forward to all your comments on the other episodes as well. I hope you're doing better financially and keep growing
These videos help remind me to be open to learning new things from different people in the TTRPG community; I wouldn't have been able to engage as deeply with DnD and develop as a player and DM without this insight. Thanks for helping people like me learn more about the context behind these events, ensuring we're up to speed, and telling us why these things are discussed. It's saved more than a couple sessions from going sideways, can't thank you enough for it
Thanks for this - I really love when videos are about to have a great conversation *about* conversations. This video felt like a great ending to the Tiberius: not too little, but not too much either.
It’s weird I watched your vids in the reverse order of popularity, regardless it’s been fun to re-experience what the mood was at time of airing, vs retrospectively viewing the livestreams.
Many thanks Mike!
I think this video is definitely a crowning definitive video for Mike's channel.
I don't always see eye to eye with Mike on various subjects but I absolutely respect him and his choices as a straight and fair shooter who will add his own unadulterated objective self reflection to the conversation as well.. He takes the humanist approach, argues in good faith, considering the many sides objectively as possible and I fully respect that..
Keep up the good work sir and here's to another year!
Cheers!
Thanks for going into this topic with such care and nuance. I think it's important for we as a community to be able to discuss the context of the situation so old and new fans alike aren't spreading misinformation (intentionally or not) while still respecting Orion and the cast's privacy. I myself barely knew anything about Orion's departure before your video as I had been watching Critical Role on and off since it came out. From my perspective, he just disappeared after a couple of tense episodes. So sincerely, thank you!
It's been a great year so far, Mike. I think one of the first things I saw actually was the original Tiberius video and I was very much someone who wondered just what happened there. So, thank you for that, thank you for this, and thank you for all of the work you do for this channel.
Hi. I just want to thank you for this series. I discover you pretty much the same time as Critical Role (where I started with campain 3) and thanks to you I knew what happen in begining of C1 while saving a ton of time I don't really have.
Congratulations to all milestones and can't wait for what's next.
Thank you so much, Lukas!
I'm thankful for your discussion of tiberius because I couldn't find anything on why he left when I first watched it 7 years ago so thank you very much.
I am only a few minutes in, and I think it is both brave but also really great to show clips of yourself. No one is perfect. You grow and you learn. Also there is probably some context that is missing. Good on you
once again you’ve shown that you can deliver such a clear and well worded video about such a difficult and combative subject. you did such a great job at treating Orion, the rest of the cast, and all of the fans (the ones that are for Orion and the ones that are against him) with the upmost respect. and even though i started watching these videos for the critical role recap and the fun little memories without having to rewatch VM for the 4th time; every other week i learn more things about DMing and playing that i hadn’t considered before even though i’ve been playing for years now.
thanks for your hard work and can’t wait for the next video. you deserve all the success that’s come your way. (april babies for the win too!)
Thank you so much, James!!
I've been playing and running dnd for over a decade. Though I never taped or recorded the sessions, I still have the privilege to have friends who reminisce about our old adventures. I have a few constant reminders of bad choices that have left a bad taste in my mouth, both as a player and as a dm, but I believe wholeheartedly that me and my friends have come a long way in creating a better space to play and enjoy the game together. My advice to anyone is to look back after sessions and talk to your players or dm. Create a space where it's okay to give feedback and get advice for how to better run or play the game. Not all problems are resolved that way, but just getting those issues out in the open is a huge step forward.
Hello Mike! Thank you so much for making this video series. I've truly enjoyed them and always strive to like them to help your channel grow. I think you do a great job at recapping the episodes and bringing to light what lessons we can all learn from them. I especially appreciate you discussing the character Tiberius and shedding light on the "mystery" about him and Orion. I think you have done a great job being true to your self and your thoughts and opinions on Tiberius and Orion while also being respectful and mindful of both the character and the player. I look forward to seeing more of your content on D&D and am rooting for your channel to continue to grow!
What a way to celebrate a year of amazing work! My congratulations, I wish you only the very best for what ever is yet to come!
Treating this as a sort of epilogue to this era, I wanted to give my two major thoughts about the whole affair:
The first is, I just wanted to thank you for your videos covering this time. For many people who get into Critical Role by asking Critters how to start, the common response usually involves "The first 27 episodes have a player who is awful in them, so just be aware that things get better from there." or a recommendation to skip those episodes entirely. It's resulted in the whole beginning of the campaign having this air of drama over it, with many just insisting they're borderline unwatchable. So it was nice to see your videos just taking each episode as it came and not hyper-focusing on what most people do. Because of your videos, I went back to rewatch these early episodes, and I honestly came away with far more positives than negatives. They're a fun time. You get a lot more of a glimpse into what their home games would have been like than you do with later episodes that fully know they're being made for an audience. So I appreciate your measured takes on it all.
Second will be maybe controversial. I want to be clear that I ultimately do not think Orion was a good player. The accusations of metagaming, main character syndrome, and uncomfortable behavior are true. I even said in a previous comment section how uncomfortable and angry the telekinesis arrow scene made me. But with all of that in mind, I do truly miss Tiberius among Vox Machina. In the good times (which were more prevalent than many would like to believe) he brought a fun and unique dynamic to the team. There are plenty of entertaining scenes or relationships established that gave me some great laughs. And separating the character from the player with something like the first volume of the Vox Machina comic that included Tiberius, just shows how great his dynamic within the team could be. Without spoiling anything, I always think about what great storytelling could have occurred had he been around during the Chroma Conclave arc. The personality and background established about Tiberius was clearly the inspiration for the story Matt created in Draconia later, and I would have liked to have seen what changes would occur because of that.
I'd also like to say that I feel sad for the players themselves. Many fans of Critical Role love to jump to the side of the players like they know them intimately, and so it's created this general environment among the fanbase of disdain for Tiberius and Orion in every aspect of his time with them. But largely, we see that's not the case with the actual cast. They were clearly friends with him. They invited him to their first ever game. They had inside jokes throughout the early episodes. And they warned against speculation after his departure likely because they didn't want this personal matter to constantly be thrown in their faces again. Again, no spoilers, but the later trip to Draconia has another huge indication of how much he meant to them. To this day, they will still reflect fondly on some events that involved Orion. So the departure was tough on them but also had the misfortune of being under public scrutiny. We're seeing a similar thing with Brian Foster now, with many fans theorizing about the reasons behind his departure or claiming they never liked him despite social media clearly showing that they are all still friends.
So finally, as an epilogue to your great videos covering all this time, I just hope some people can read this comment and decide to put speculation to rest and take both the good and the bad like you have done.
I've watched the entirety of the first campaign 4 years ago. Never knew about the drama until afterwards. To me, the first 27 were a bit worse due to Tiberius but nowhere near "unwatchable". 27 was the only episode that made me think of him as an idiot.
Oh, ooh, oof, the Brian Foster part of this comment didn't age well.
I love that you start by showing examples of when you have made faux pas, I have been watching this series of videos specifically to learn how to improve myself, and I appreciate that that is clearly the point. It puts the Vox Machina review videos into a context that makes them more than just entertainment.
Thank you ☺️
I've really enjoyed your videos in the past year. You've done such a good job, not only breaking down Crit Role episodes, but also giving really solid gaming advice. THANK YOU!!!
Thank you!
Only made it through the intro, and bravo. Great reflection, already made me challenge what I was bringing into this video.
Somethings I'd like to add.
-A woman going on a coffee date with a guy doesn't mean automatic romantic interest. Sure something could bloom. But Allura going out once with Tiberius doesn't guarantee a romance.
-For me personally a big red flag about the vest was that Orion was very vocal in requesting it. I'm not entirely sure atm, but I believe he tweeted about how perfect it was for Tiberius, but how he couldn't afford it, or something. Cue the fan gifting it to him. While the other CR members often have little trinkets from their characters none of them have openly requested it as far as I know.
And now to get a little deep. My biggest issue with Orion seems like a refusal to learn. While I have understanding for his situation I find it hard to believe that his substance abuse did not influence his behaviour at the table. Which pains me because they were friends. Of course I don't know what happened behind the scenes, but I find it hard to believe that the rest of the cast wouldn't try to help him. But speaking as that friend who refused to get better. In the end you're the only person who can improve yourself. And putting that burden on your friends will ruin friendships. Plenty of guest actors proved that you don't have to be the best, most all powerful, super skilled player, as long as you're just having fun together. And you respect the other players and their choices
Yeah those were the same things I felt were kinda off putting while watching this video.
- The CZcamsr is very lenient with this, and kind of displays that very same toxic male belief that romance is guaranteed. Fans have explained why Allura wasn't really reciprocating the romance, but he's so willing to say that there was romance because "ohp tea date that must mean romance" it feels kinda.. gross to me? In that he heard "Tea Date" and automatically assumed that meant that Alura was reciprocating Romantic feelings.
- And the CZcamsr is also seeming to blatantly ignore the fact that the vest that Orion got was only gifted because he used his parasocial powers to essentially beg for it, and use his social status to get a fan to buy it for him.
Whereas the other cast members prop items were only ever gotten from genuine gifts, they didn't ask or plead for fans to buy it for them, no they did none of that, they never asked fans for anything, and were gracious whenever a fan did gift them something.
Idk this whole video just comes off as an Orion fan trying to play all the problematic and troubling behavior of Orion off as "oh it wasn't that bad"
@@acetrainersylph7953did... did you watch the video. Genuinely did you watch the whole thing or this guy's channel at all. Even in this video he talks about how alot of what Orion does kinda rubs him the wrong way. But does want to be respectful in the end I think this is a horrendously bad take man
@@perfectlyse9859 I've watched the entire video and a lot of the videos, and I just disagree.
Everytime something Orion did gets brought up, he finds someway to lighten it and make it seem lesser than what it really was. He framed Orion using his status and greed by cohercing a fan to buy him that robe as "a gift" it wasn't a gift, it was something he pleaded for and coherced a fan into buying it. The content creator also tried to compare origins greedy "gift" to the genuine gifts that the other cast members got, however unlike Orion the other cast members didn't beg and plead for their fans to get them gifts.
He also glossed over a lot of the other horrible and problematic things Orion did and pretty much downplayed them.
This is a good channel. I like Mike.
I concur
I've enjoyed the heckie out of your videos this last year - hell, I find myself looking forward to them! Thank you for all your effort in putting them together for us, and mad MAD respect for the self-reflection.
Congrats on the 1 year! Thanks for these videos and your honesty about how you (and likely all of us) have missed the mark at some point in time!
Fantastic video, Mike. I discovered your channel a few months ago and I've watched most of your videos since then. I was impressed start to finish with this one; you took it to another level.
Something that has drawn me to your channel from the start is how you approach everything - everything - with humility and understanding. You frequently bring up difficult topics in the TTRPG world, often involving situations at tables that are uncomfortable, and you consistently do so in a gracious, respectful manner that really shows off your humanity. You're unmistakably a good man. I paused to read the comment from Orion, and it looks like that's the impression he took from it, too. You said he didn't have to comment in such a respectful way. This is why he did.
Most of all, and specifically with regards to Orion, any time you bring up potentially problematic behaviour, it's always with the intention of offering advice on how we can recognize it in ourselves and others, and how to learn from it to improve our games. And frankly, one important lesson is that sometimes the way to improve our games is for someone to leave the group and play in a different game. I went through that a couple years ago, when I started playing with a bunch of college friends, none of us having played together and several being brand new. There was some friction, some healthy communication, attempts to make it work, but I recognized that if I were to make all the changes necessary to fit the game they wanted to play, then I wouldn't be having very much fun. So, I respectfully bowed out, wished them well, and found a different game. Because of that - because of how ALL of us approached it with grace and understanding - the whole experience only brought us closer as friends. To this day, I get together with the same group to play classic board games. But no more D&D :p
Thanks for having such an awesome channel, Mike!
It's only been a year?! Dude, you're doing such a good job!
Another great video. I for one applaud you for making these recaps and all of the other videos that you have been making as well. As a very long time CR fan and someone who lived through the Tiberius episodes as they were happening I very much enjoy your takes on the situation. I think you did a great job at being fair and balanced. And as you said, its not being done to call out one person or defame them. Its a good way to highlight certain behaviors and issues. Its a way to help people recognize subtle issues that may be effecting their own tables. A way to put a mirror up to our own behaviors , ones that we may have been blind to, so we can fix those problems before they become serious. Well done.
I appreciate you touching on this subject one final time. The explanations of your thoughts on the first video you did cleared things up nicely.
Thank you ☺️
It really feels like this video is the "Avengers" of the series. Like the whole channel has been leading up to this video lol.
Always excellent work. You continue to give well put, engaging, and well meaning insight, and I'm so happy we have another million episodes of Crit Role to go, so I can keep looking forward to your videos haha
I had real “season finale” vibes when I was writing this video lol
I just wanted to say thank you for making these videos about The Tiberius Situation. I found CR the same year they finished campaign one (I finished ep 114 the night ep 115 came out). At the time, it was a little easier piecing together what happened because it was still fairly recent, but I was basically redirected to the subreddit and then told never to talk about it again out of respect for the cast. Since starting to play dnd myself, I struggle a lot with social anxiety, and that manifests in the fear of being "That Guy" without knowing it. Your videos have given me helpful ways to fight that anxiety by breaking down better why Orion's behavior was such a problem, and offering examples that in retrospect might have helped. I find myself mentally checking in during sessions when I start to feel the social anxiety creep up and asking myself "is this positively or negatively impacting everyone else at the table?" "How far am I willing to go for this bit and what is the line, based off of how everyone is acting at the table/my character/the story?" "Am I being too 'stubborn' or unwilling to do something just because *i think* its a bad idea, and impeding a good character moment or plot point?". I feel like we'd have a lot fewer "That Guy"'s in the community if this was talked about as openly and respectfully as you have in these videos
All that to say, thank you for making these videos. I know there are others in the fandom who disagree, however, I feel like you've talked about and handled this all incredibly respectfully and much better than I've seen other Critters talk about it in the past (the rare ones who do), and there are definitely lessons ttrpg players and GMs can learn from
As a relative newcomer to D&D, I really appreciate these videos. They have helped me not only avoid certain pitfalls with play styles, they've helped me just have more fun with the game than I was. Keep up the good work Mike! Always fun to watch and learn.
This has honestly been such a joy to watch. I’m so happy that someone is talking about this as I was wondering what happened for the longest time. You’re first Tibsy video was the first video of yours I watched and all of your other content has been great. Thank you for being open about this whole thing and teaching so many others!
Thank you!
@@SupergeekMike no problem!
I always find these sorts of videos interesting. The accountability for the way things were taken in the previous video that you mentioned is admirable. Most people wouldn't do that. While I can't become a patron, I definitely look forward to more of your things and will be subscribing. I'm hoping to catch the livestream too, since the 5th is my birthday ^_^
It never would have worked out, but now I'm thinking about how cool it would have been if Tiberius's father agreed to send an army to Whitestone, sent back a letter saying, "They're on the way!" and when the party gets to Whitestone, they find out that the army had been destroyed by the Briarwoods and now they have an army of undead dragonborn and wyverns to deal with. It would have been too antagonizing to work, since it would have been an overly dramatic way of shutting Orion down from trying to take more of the spotlight in the arc and, in the process, would actually have given Tiberius even more of a motive to do so, but the idea of fighting against an army of undead wyverns is just so cool.
I've only been a Critter for a year now but your first Tiberius video helped me understand a lot about those early episodes. I am so happy to hear Orion is healthier now. Thanks for all the hard work you put into your content.
Your first Tiberius video was my first on your channel. I really enjoy you’re insight even if I don’t always agree. I appreciate that you take time to ensure that your audience feels welcomed and respected. Congratulations one your 1 year mark. Can wait to see what the next year brings.
Thanks for the deep dive into Tiberius. I think an honest and open discussion about problematic behavior is truly the best way to amend it.
I only have watched the 1st campaign largely through highlights but this series has been real eyeopening of how dnd is played and using critical role as a great example to show lessons learned for each episode.
Very well thought out and organized. I appreciate the consideration you give to the subject both for the cast and the fans. Glad to hear Orion is doing well. Look forward to your next video!
As someone who is trying to catch up on the older CR content, I appreciate this whole recap series. They've helped me to catch things that I missed while watching the gameplay, and I've started to notice things and see things in a new light at my own table. Thanks!
In the end, the saddest thing of all is, that at the heart of all this drama, lies a sad tale of a wonderful group of friends who have shared a path for years, breaking apart and loosing one that was dear to them. With all what happened with and around Orion, the one tragedy above it all is, that he lost atleast in part, his friends.
And that is a pain worth of no envy.
Something that bugs me personally is that in the stuff I have found about the whole Tiberius situation, there's a bunch of subtext that reads as ableist against autistic folks. Whether that's intentional or not is unclear, but it certainly reads that way nonetheless. So hearing you call out "read the room isn't useful advice for everyone" was refreshing.
This is exactly what I think of when people say “read the room” (and I’m as guilty of it as anyone, I can’t claim I’ve never used that saying), so I’m so glad you picked up on that ☺️
Same! Like I find Sam’s jokes make me uncomfortable same as that Orion joke. So I am baffled as to what’s okay
@@Nortarachanges I think that Sam's dirty jokes were a) entirely in-character as Scanlan, and b) were at least somewhat better timed, while Orion's joke was a weird "I'm saying that this is coming from my character, but it's weird, poorly timed, and doesn't really feel like it's a character thing." At least, judging by what I've seen and heard about it. The group also knew that they could trust Sam to understand when he'd started to cross the line, and he would back down when he realized this. Orion didn't seem to understand why he was putting people off, and that it wasn't the time or place for such humor in-character, let alone at the table in general, due to its weird and somewhat out-of-character feel.
@@Mokiefraggle okay thanks! I think I get it better now!
Just to clarify. Feel free not to answer if you don’t want: So people felt safer, because they were expecting it from Sam? Or they knew he wasn’t talking about himself the person? Like everyone knew he didn’t mean he, Sam, was doing or feeling those things? While with Orion, they were left wondering if he, the person, had a partially erect penis at that moment?
Like I’m supremely ace, so every sexy joke I make is not meant literally. The joke is I am obviously lying, because I’ve never and will never do the sexy things. But I want everyone to be clear I don’t mean them literally. So should I stick to my “no sex jokes unless with my niece or sister who get my humor?” Or is it safe to do them with my online friends if I make it clear beforehand I don’t ever mean them literally?
@@Nortarachanges I think it was less that it was more expected from Sam, but more that they knew it was a part of _Scanlan_ as a character, and thus they knew it was Sam just having fun with the character's gag, and not really meaning a bit of it. Meanwhile, the joke from Tiberius was impossible to read as to whether or not it came from Tiberius or Orion, and it was very much the wrong time and place for it, as well as his inability to read that he'd made people uncomfortable with it.
I feel that dirty jokes are...kinda dependent on the conversation at hand, the people involved, and what spurred them on. I don't personally mind them sometimes from certain people, much along the way that I sometimes don't mind gross humor, but after a point, it gets to be too much, so it's just kind of a...consider the company, the vibe of the room, and so on. Or, if you really aren't sure, especially with online situations where sometimes jokes can fall flat without expressions and without tone in the case of text chats, you can always just outright ask if people are bothered by dirty jokes, and to what degree. Easier to ask permission than forgiveness, and all that.
You bring great points super politely. I'm looking forward for your recaps for the next episodes.
You really did a great job with this video. Inserting your own experiences at the beginning was really effective. Point made and received right away. The way you think analytically about all of these situations and then find a way to relay the information effectively to your audience is one of the reasons I keep coming back to your videos.
I have honestly never seen anyone else speak more calmly and respectfully about ANY kind of controversy than you have. It is inspiring and fills me with hope that one day people will actually be able to talk kindly to each other even if they have opposing views. Thank you for all the content man, I'll be sure to share this and your other videos. I know a few up-and-coming dungeon masters that could use your channel as a good tool to help them develop.