Which Makes the Biggest Difference? PrePro or Adding an Amp to an AVR?
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
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Dedicated processors get expensive. Mostly because they have a very limited lifespan due to technology changes, HDMI, DD, ATMOS, 4k, now 8k, all limit the lifespan to a processor. An amplifier may cost as much up front but last forever, a much better investment. My first separates were in 1999, B&K Ref 20 and Parasound HCA 855 amp. I am on my 4th processor but still using the same Parasound HCA-855a.
Nice. I like your approach, still rocking the amp, even though the preprocessors have changed. That's exactly why your setup is working so well. Very cool.
Another fantastic question to ask a manufacturer. Daily Hifi Crew never afraid to ask the tough questions 💪
@Chad Damien I hate the bots😂🤣😅
@Henrik Cyrus bots bots and more bots😂🤣
This is the first person/video that is explained it so well! This should be a pinned video
It was hilarious how he struggled trying to sell why a pre is better than an avr...🤣🤣🤣🤣
SMH. You would think he would have mentioned the ability to use true differential outputs (XLR), lower SINAD, better bass management, etc. I assume none of those things listed actually apply.
👏🏻👍. I am an RX-A3080 ower and use additional poweramps for the fronts. I thougt the same as Joe before the Interview. The next ones will probably be separates. Thanx for the question ans onest answer!
I have been looking for answers for this exact question in a long time. Thanks to the Yamaha engineer for the explanation. I guess I better start saving for separate processor
This video might've gotten expensive for me. I have the SR7015 still on order, but now I'm thinking the AV7706 instead.
Well, if you don't need the 8K port, they are around the same price. SR7015 just came in and I set it up yesterday. I hope to have the first video out tomorrow, but...it's been hard getting started today :(
@@TechnoDad I wasn't talking about the outgoing AV7705, but the brand new AV7706 (with 8K). I am so disappointed in ASR's measurements of the SR7015 now though.
I recently picked up an old Marantz AV 7702 processor and it COMPLETELY DESTROYS my Yamaha RXA 3060! I've now sold the 3060 and will never go back to using an AVR!
You guys are killing me man lol I'm new to this and I'm trying to do this right the first time. I bought X3700h on purpose thinking I could get best sound possible with in my budget of course using preamp mode with external amplifier. Now I'm thinking I need a dedicated processor and amplifier for best sound results . . Damn!!!!! I would have went a different route. It's all good I still love this 😀 Thanks for the info fellas 👍
still better than depending on the AVR for it all. You have taken the strain off the AVR. Think about it: the less you crank the knob on the AVR to get LOUD, the less distortion you get. I would not be too upset with the route you have taken...
@Roy R I’m faced with the same situation. Am running an Onkyo TX-NR686 Receiver, and now am in a process of buying a Monolith 7x True-200 amplifier with the idea of letting my Receiver do the processing, and now this.🙆🏻♂️
@@Turtleback8024 have you received your external amp yet?
And did you hook it to your AVR? And was there a noticeable difference?
x3700 tests very well on audio science review as a preamp source.
you are PERFECTLY fine. it's 2022, same procs on all of their line-up, never trust marketing...
Interesting comment from the yamaha guy about the limitations of power supplies in avr’s, given that there is a very very strong rumour that yamaha is discontinuing the pre/pro and the a8a is now the flagship ov aventage.
I totally concur with the Yamaha engineer! I recently picked up an old Marantz AV 7702 and it completely blows my Yamaha RXA 3060 out of the water and that Yamaha sounded good. Let's just say I am never going back to an AVR. A processor reproduces the sound in the disc, whilst an AVR 'tries' to.
Which Pre/pro now has 2.1 HDMI? The shocking thing is if I buy a $4500 pre pro, then next Tuesday it’s worth $1500
yep
I just added a power amplifier to my AV Receiver to run my mains it has made a huge difference
What kind of receiver do you have and what kind of amps did you add?
Why not the other way around.? Since most of us already have an AVR, why not adding a processor to the amp of the AVR?
It's so much better than a receiver, i upgraded my pre-pro from a older Rotel to a Marantz av7005 and that was a starting difference in sound quality. Having a separate power amplifier, there's no how many watts do i have available, my Carver is 125 watts 20-20k all 5 channels, no BS
My set up is a Yamaha Rxa3010 AVR which i crossover at 80hz to two active subwoofers and the sound is powerful, airy and dynamic. I have not tried separates, though using bass management has to count for something having three separate power amps contributing to stereo and surround sound. I do suspect my set up has passed the point of diminishing returns but I'm sure separates will offer a different experience.
Better With pre/pro, I have tried both
You forgot to mention the possibility of adding an integrated amp to an AVR pre-outs, with HT bypass, like Yamaha A-S 2200, and many more...
New denon has pre amp mode on there avr sounds like the same as a pre pro
If you look at the insides of the SR7015 vs. the AV7706 it actually looks like it's the same chassis with the PSU and amps ripped out. At least the HDMI/video processing board is the same.
That's Marantz low class for you. The Yamaha pre pro is built very different (so many different components, supply, etc) than the equivalent flagship receiver. I finally got the chance to strip one down.
Stay away from Marantz. My SR5014 just sh%t the bed right before the Super Bowl. Had it about a year. Never would buy an AVR ever in life again.
Nowadays most of the Avr are coming with unbalanced,pre amp mode .. only the difference is that Avr doesn’t have xlr outputs..but pre amp have xlr.. from that output will get balanced sound ..and its sounds better and gives awsome performance sound detailings…I love it.. Pre pro is the best option..
Part of the problem that I have with these discussions, is that there is no way to quantify the improved performance. There is no measurement of "openness" of sound. I understand the concept of separates and I get why it SHOULD sound better, but I wish there were some way to quantify the difference between the various configurations.
I guess that ultimately, it's just like the videos that I see reviewing the OLED televisions. You have to actually see them in person to understand the image quality. Likewise, I suppose you have to actually HEAR how these components perform to be able to judge the difference between an AVR, an AVR with pre-outs connected to an external amp, and a standalone preprocessor connected to an external amp. It's all very confusing and very expensive!!!
Until you have a chance to listen to your speakers powered by a receiver, then switch it out for a prepro and separates, you’ll never know. When I made the jump, it was by far the biggest improvement in sound out of anything I’ve ever done to improve the sound. The separation is just blatantly obvious when using separates. I’ve never heard of anyone who has made the jump actualy be disappointed and prefer the sound of the AVR. it’s just one of those things. You won’t know til you hear it. I had a hard time believing it was anything but a more expensive receiver without the amplifiers. It made no sense. But the difference is apparent
@@kilgoretrout4461 is it a huge leap over just adding a 5 Channel or higher amp to my AVR? Or will I notice a huge difference just adding an amp to my AVR?
I am in the belief that adding an amp will be a very noticeable difference and then going to a pre out would give me a bit more but for real how much more?
@@kman9387 in my experience, the leap from Avr to Avr w/amp was much less of a leap than going from Avr w/ amp to full separates. So the leap from AVR straight to separates, should be quite dramatic. Dedicated processors can be expensive, yes, but it’s not just because of limited runs and less gross sales. It’s because every piece of hardware inside that processor is dedicated to better sound. The problem with modern receivers is that they are cramming sooooooo much stuff into one box, that compromises absolutely have to be made. Cramming 9 or 11 amplifier modules into a box that already has tons of stuff already is no easy feat. Modern receivers are amazing for what they are. Don’t get me wrong. But one thing that a receiver just can’t do is physically separate a lot of the components inside. It’s impossible to prevent all components from affecting one another when they are right on top of each other. You get cross talk and other things that just aren’t there in a separate processor. Honestly, you can get into separates for less than you probably expect as well. You can get a good, used processor, if you take the time to search one out, for under $1200. If that cuts down your ability to get more expensive amps, you can always start with buying some cheaper ones like crowns or qsc, there are a lot of cheaper amps out there that you could use in the meantime while you’re saving up for more expensive ones. I used to not be Abel to wrap my head around why processors were so expensive, and how in the hell they could cost more than receivers when receivers came with amps in them. I always thought a processor was basically just a receiver but without the amps, but that is not the case at all. I have yet to speak to anyone that didn’t think moving to separates was definitely the right decision. Undoubtedly they exist, but I haven’t met one myself.
@@kilgoretrout4461 very awesome info 👍🤘👏👌.
Thank you for your time and help with this matter!
I've been told that if I get the Emotiva 5 Channel amp and add it to my AVR it will help out greatly while I save up for a new processor and at least I will always be able to keep the amp because amps last way longer because technically they don't change quite like processors due to changing formats in video and audio.
@@kman9387 Thats what I'm doing. Gonna get the monolith 11x for my denon 3700h, then when I can squeeze a few bucks together, get a dedicated prosessor. The hard decision will be, which processor.
Go separate you can always swap out the processor as technology changes. The bread and butter is the two fronts and center . Everything else doesnt need that much power .
Okay one more time where does DAC come into the picture between avr's and separates
youthman, eat beforehand! lol
He is just at the movies lol
separates all the way and never go back!
Youthman is funny in this video 🤣
AVR 's put out 1 volt for their preouts, why not make it 4 volts ?
New to the hobby. I have stepped up to a Denon avr-x4700h. I’m struggling not honestly knowing what amp to get that I will be really happy with that’s not expensive?
Get an emotive 3 channel , 5 or 7 channel amp. The Bassx and XLA are both great options. I also have the Denon but use it only to fire my Atmos speakers
Pre-pro does not have to deal with the magnetic fields and harmonic resonance picked up by every piece of metal from the coils and transformers packed into tight packages. Alot less internal circuit filters and power stresses. Pre-pro's are best, but it is a slippery slope to in the search for ultimate sound. Next thing you know your trying to keep the cost below $25k with Be diaphragms and $6K amps. Although speakers made of Unicorn skins and Eagle feathers may sound great. How many can afford to expierience or enjoy them? Precious few. That is not even top scale when you look at the price of Harman Pro/Mark Levinson that considers McIntosh cheap. If it were not for Atmos, DTX, Dirac, 32/384Hz DAC and HDMI 2.1 most would not feel the need to spend $5K on upgraded AV processor. There are few use cases for Dolby Vision HDR10 content. 4K/120Hz is a PC/gaming only thing another $5K TV/$5K PC.
youth man in the houseeeeeeeee
a chain is as strong as the weakest link..... Hes right having separates would be ideal. However, NO one is running a commercial cinema and its completely unnecessary for most people with children and you just upset your wife, and that is NEVER good.
Mo money mo money!
I'm saving my pennies! My hobbies are so damn expensive!
Phil was not convincing at all.
IF PREPRO ARE SOOO GOOOOOD,,,,,,,, WHY DOESN'T "dEnOn" MAKE A current "PrePro" ???????????????????????? Shouldn't that tell you something? I'm thinking about buying a Denon AVR 110 ,,, if I need more juice I'll get a Parasound 5 channel amp.
a single company not making a product, doesn’t mean it’s pointless. Denon and Marantz both use the same Sound United devices and do their own mods to them. Marantz has PrePros, so basically the company that actually makes these devices DOES have PrePros. So far I’ve yet to hear someone bash on the sound of PrePros, and typically they all say the same thing: better placement of objects and more “3D” detail in them, less artificial.
Look at just a few that make PrePros: Marantz, Anthem/JBL, Arcam, Monoprice, Emotiva, Tonewinner, NAD, AudioControl, Classe, Yamaha, Trinnov, Acurus, Rotel, StormAudio, Integra.
@@andrewskaterrr I want "Denon" in a Prepro !
@@starlight7830 same here, but with Dirac too, and for under $3000. I'm currently debating what to buy, go cheap with a Denon or ToneWinner PrePro (both no Dirac), go Onkyo AVR with Dirac, or go Anthem/JBL AVR or PrePro with Dirac but also software issues. Such a bad market right now.
Tell Michael nobody wants to watch him eat it's very bad manners.
Doesn't DENON have a PURE DIRECT mode. Doesn't that make a huge difference
Had to abandon early because of all the kids noise in background. Need to avoid that going forward to maintain people sticking with you.
Eating while making a video is unprofessional!
It only matters when the content isn't up to snuff. No one cares if John Carmack eats popcorn during one of his talks on VR or game design, or John Stott (Rip) eating steak while discussing New Testament church formation.