The AMUN-RA Advanced Stealth Warship Breakdown | The Expanse Ships
Vložit
- čas přidán 17. 05. 2020
- In covering The Expanse on this channel I want to make sure to do a video on each of the ships. I wasn't originally going to do the Anubis/Amun-Ra Class because there is so little known about it and such little footage available but I decided to give it a shot anyway because I think that it's an interesting ship to look at and it boasts some advanced technology that make it one of the more feared ships in The Expanse's universe.
FACEBOOK: / generationfilms
INSTAGRAM: / thegenerationfilms
What we're reading and watching: www.amazon.com/shop/generatio...
FOLLOW OUR HOSTS
American Ben: / @americanbenjamin
Allen Xie: / thebeardedasianman
Ben Hedges: / benhedgesntd - Zábava
The Amun-Ra Class' spinal railgun is kinda underrated. At the time, it was the smallest ship with a railgun, so it could easily severely damage or vent a much larger ship immediately after or even before detection
Didn't some of the smaller Martian ships have a railgun though?
random guy the corvette class (roci)has dual railguns and I believe it’s only slightly larger than the Amun ra
I’m also fairly sure the railgun on the Rocinante isn’t as powerful as the Amun-Ra’s and definitely not as much as the Donnager’s
@@NightRaven-lh1bf lol no. have you seen what sabot can do to tanks? not just punch a hole. it superheats anything upon contact due to pure friction, and cause a significant thermo explosion after penetrating the target.
The Roci is smaller than the Amun Ra. In the battle of Thoth station you can clearly see the stealth ship is enormous compared to the corvette.
As far as the officer alerting the Donager captain about the contact. Honestly that’s just how the military is. As a police dispatcher I was working the night our helicopter crashed and the pilot calmly stated “Pasco I’m going down” three times in a flat, clam, almost emotionless voice. Now this was a helicopter and that is a ship, but the idea is the same. The officer is relaying information and it doesn’t matter how bad it is, the voice stays the same, so they hear it and clearly understand what was said.
Right, pilots of both aircraft and ships are conditioned to act calmly in situations that are not so calm as panic creates fear and confusion leading to major mistakes and potentially death.
TL;DR: Panic is detrimental to surviving a life or death situation. Remaining stoic and calm may not guarantee your survival, but it will improve your odds significantly.
The donnager was tracking a ship for a while. They just waited for them to come in closer before they could say they are coming to attack us. Right before they got jammed and had torpedoes flying towards them. They assumed it was an OPA ship. Normal pirates. Suddenly the pirate ship turn into 6 ships. Their torpedoes' guidance system was better then anything the crew had seen landing several hits. The rail gun was a surprise because ships that small never had one before. The rocinante could fit one later but needed major work to implement it. The Martian crew was too used to fighting space pirates so they didn't expect special forces to attack the ship. As the the battle between the stealth ship and the Rocinante, the Rocinante is a gunship. The stealth ship's only advantage in a fight was the rail gun. One shot on a critical component and the Rocinante was finished. But up close and away from that rail gun, the stealth ship didn't stand a chance. The way I see it, the stealth ships aren't supposed to be the god like. They are just supposed to be better then Mars so Earth thinks they are Martin war ships. Mars knows they can't field something this advanced so they assume it's Earth's. I believe that's the real God like power of the amun-ra ships. It's ability to ignite tensions leading to war.
If the Donnager used his auxilary crafts as escort, then the donnager would won.
The point of the blip they were following was to lure the Donnager to that location for an ambush to setup and frame the UN.
Kristóf Horváth as I recall they did have some of their gunships deployed, and only the Tachi was in the hanger during the battle
@@johnpatz8395 Not sure about the book but not in the show.
M P this actually points to my main issue with the battle at Toth station. By keeping the stealth ship tucked alongside the station, it negates much of the advantage it's steath provides, and that's the ability to strike from a position that is unexpected. Yes, it's presence at the station would be hidden, but any defensive/offensive strikes would be expected to be coming from the station, which is where the ship was.
If the ship had been sat silently, and unseen, off to the side of the station, and attacker would find themselves suddenly facing fire from two directions, and no single target could close to knife fighting range of both at the same time.
Another minor gripe is, they dedicate a an expensive and high tech, super secret comat craft todefending the station, but never added any defensive weapons to the station itself? Sure they hoped no one would find the station, and initially there was no reason for Earth or Mars to be hostile to the ship, but we are told time and again that piracy is an issue in the expanse, and since a small, completely isolated station would be a orime target, I'd have expected at least a few PDCs spaced across it's exterior instead if only having a cannon to protect against asteroids.
Even a single pdc on the station could have turned the tide in the battle, as the Roci would have had to try and outmaneuver it and the steath vessel's weapons at the same time.
The Expanse...best sci fi series till today IMO
Like submarines, undetected they can do a lot of damage, once you know where they are they are easier to sink than other warships.
The Amun-ra class is all about minimizing sensor profile, it does that very well, so if you don't know what you're looking for it can adjust itself and its emissions to control what you see. However once seen it's just a small ship with a limited amount of ordinance and no additional defenses really. If they can get off the first shots a group of them can defeat any single target, but would be almost useless in a fleet engagement in any role other than reconnaissance.
As someone that has served on submarines that is an accurate statement. Subs during WWII were used in a few different ways. Looking to the US they were used primarily for recon, pilot search and rescue, and merchant/logistic interdiction. The Germans used them in a similar role though they perfected sub warfare with the concept and utilization of wolf pack tactics. By that you had smaller light subs that complimented a few medium sized that answered to one or two larger heavy subs which acted as command vessels. The smaller ones would spot and track a target, they would contact the command vessel(s), they would coordinate with the mediums to move into position, after that some of the smaller ones would instigate a skirmish and turn and run pulling away escorts and divide concentrated fire to minimize causalities, the mediums would move in and take out the target(s) before bolting, and the command(s) would mop up any stragglers if it needed to otherwise they would leave the area. The attack on the Donnager was basically the equivalent of the wolf pack in practice, with each ship acting as small recon trying to divide attention of weapon's fire of a much larger more powerful vessel while inflicting some damage.
That's my thoughts as well. They are like subs and have the strengths and weaknesses of such. If subs were all powerful that would be the only vessel in the ocean, but we still have all the other ones cause they all have roles to play.
The Amun-Ra class is very well suited for its specific mission profile: guerilla tactics/hit and run. It's a one trick pony...but, it is very capable at performing that one trick...especially with a pro crew; it's sort of the Bird of Prey of the expanse universe.
Also these very very advanced swarm tactics are devastating also the amuns would have only lost 2 if they went for the kill on the donny.
Re: Thoth Station. In Alex's training sims, Roci got waxed again and again by the torps at long range or by the railgun closer in. But as we've seen, PDC and railgun rounds cut right through a ship and presumably, whatever might be behind it. Once Roci slipped past the stealth and got right up next to Thoth, the stealth lost its ability to just blaze away indiscriminately, lest it also perforate the station.
the also weren´t prepared for battle they might not even have had their suits on and died quickly after the first manuevers as the oxygensupply was vented into the void, damage that is not possible to fix under hard manuevers
@@fabianseewald7884 Later on, Avasarala sends a ship to investigate the wreck of that ship, and finds a bunch of dead bodies out of their VAC suits, so you're right, they weren't ready.
I should also point out that I think Ben missed a crucial detail concerning the destruction of the _Donnager:_ One of the Protogen torps slammed into her main reactor housing and presumably exploded into plasma. I always thought _this_ was the reason why the reactor overheated, not just firing the weapons, although that probably didn't help matters.
The torpedoes might have been shortrange plasma torpedoes, heat is extremely hard to get rid of in space, as their is hardly anything to transfer the heat to, it only can radiate through the void
@@Phoenix-214 mmm can you remind me in what episode it was? I can't remember such scene...
@@skipperg4436 Start of Season 2, Episode 4: "Godspeed."
Great to see more expanse coverage!
Amen
The MCRN Donnager DID detect the stealth ship several minutes out (not just 1 minute). They just couldn't determine the ship type or anything else until it got closer. All they saw was the engine bloom from its deceleration burn.
the ship can´t maneuver under stealth, the donnager detected them burning towards them, they weren´t operating under stealth, wich only serves in ambushes and hiding, as a first strike, however if you can´t predict a route or if you want to get close to a target to board them like they did, they need to match their speed, and when you ignite a continuous nuklear explosion, no manner of heatsink can compensate for the infrared radiation alone.
the drive needs to be shut off and the ship needs to be positioned right relative to the ecliptik thats used in 3d navigation without horizon, only than and only with minimal activity of the crew and machinery the stealth "systems" can be used, what is rather a buildingprincipal than an actual device
OriginalTharios we miss dozens if not hundreds of astroids flying “close” to earth every year and thats with planet wide systems. Think of the power and size of our most sophisticated detection technology then realize the size of expanses biggest warship. Look up the detection ranges in our fighter jets. Look up how difficult it is to detect things like dark matter, dark energy, neutrons ect and how specific strategies and methods are required for things like that and then comprehend why a warship would even have those. Cloaking in space, yeah, probably not, but stealth with our technology now and what is seen in expanse, legitimate.
in the book the donager detects them way before the shooting happens. they detected them over an hour before the shots were fired they gave them an hour to back off before they fired. also the great part of this scene is that at no point dose it stop focusing on the eventual crew of the roci, and the battle is told from there perspective as they hear the donnagers torps firing, and hear the pdcs start then the railguns. and the decapitation of shed.
The greatest advantage of any stealth ship is not it's tech, but the tactics of how it's used. The Amun-ra was a threat, because no one knew that such a threat existed. The video draws a nice parallel between the battle with Donnager and the battle of Thoth showcasing that. The Donnager underestimated how dangerous the ship was (which also turned out to be 6 ships not one), while during the battle for Thoth, OPAS and Rocinante expected it and knew what it could do.
I think Avasarala points out at one point that the only reason to have stealth tech is first strike capability, which makes sense from a smaller tactical and also a larger strategic perspective.
As American Ben stated, one of the biggest advantages was the stealth tech. The thing is, with stealth in the Expanse, you have to know where your target is going to be in advance to take advantage of it. Ships like the Amun Ra, and Martian stealth ships, can't engage their main drive without revealing their position. This means that either you are laying in wait for your prey to come to you, or you need to be able to plot an intercept course that requires no course corrections after you start your intercept trek. Because they couldn't know exactly when/where the Donny would be, they had to plan for a powered intercept instead of a lay-in-wait or ballistic intercept. Meaning, that even without their stealth tech, 6x Amun Ra frigates took out the deadliest ship Mars had on it's roster for ship to ship combat. It's interesting because there's that one time when Admiral Nguyn's assistant relays the story of how Nguyn was on one of six frigates sent to deal with a Martian cruiser in the previous Earth-Mars war and that one cruiser slaughtered the UN frigates. I get the distinct impression that a combination of superior skill, tech, and planning played a big role here.
The Donny had to shut down her reactors only after the main reactor housing had begun taking torpedo hits from torpedoes which were superior to anything the Martians ever thought they'd have to face. I think if we look at the Amun Ra piece by piece, it's easy to dismiss, but when you combine each component, including the crew, and put it in a situation which it was designed to excel in, it's a pretty damn scary ship. Thoth station very nearly went the other way for the Roci. If the railgun hit they took had been just a little better placed, or that random PDC round Camina Drummer points out had just strayed a meter from where it hit and clipped their reactor housing, the Amun Ra would be reigning supreme even over the Roci.
What I would like to know is if the Protogen plan had been to attack the Donny regardless, or if it was specifically targeted because Canterbury survivors were on board. If it's the former, this kinda makes sense as it is the Martian flagship for the local region would be a great way of riling up Mars. If it's the later, did they leave the Knight to just die on it's own and had to fix the mistake of not finishing it off? Or was the point to leave survivors to say "It was a stealth ship" knowing that everyone would immediately point the finger at Mars, and then destroy the Donny to both ensure no eye witnesses remained and to bloody Mars' nose and set them on the warpath as well.
Thanks for your comment. Though I do think the Amun Ra wasn't the right ship for the Thoth job, you make a good point that it wasn't necessarily that far from emerging victorious. Actually, I imagine it was indeed fooled by the Rocinante's cargo disguise, or else it would have attacked earlier and probably won given a little bit more space.
@@GenerationFilms I agree! the lost canister ploy was very clever and served it's purpose of getting within minimum effective torpedo range as well as positioning the Guy Mollinari to deploy the boarding pods. I'm loving every bit of this Expanse series you're doing and can't wait to see the next video you do! A really interesting combat to analyze I think would be the engagement between the Roci and the UNN capital ship sent to kill Avasarala and Bobby.
That'll be a hard one but I'll try to tell that story eventually!
Something that shocked me was when the bullet went through the ship and that changes your thinking about space battles. You have to wonder if they destroyed the ship or if they just punched so many holes that the people suffocated
Or lose their head or body parts
They might have had vac suits, not that it would have saved them getting their flesh turned to swiss cheese :D
@@Ava_Enithesi until you get to the inaros wars it seemed like the soldiers didn't wear their vac suit on the ship.
and further down the rabbit hole we go
It's not a bad thing though
Should definitely check out the video Spacedock did on the ship if you haven't already.
yeah Spacedock literally named the ship :)
@@harlankovacs6276 Was that been marketing ploy for Expanse ?
Naw they were probably like, “I can hire a professional writer to write the lore, and have it take up a back corner of a website, or I can have space dock do it for free, and have free publicity”
@grunf
Comment above
I’m so happy for this moment. A screaming Firehawk who is so enthused and can do decent uploads on Expanse stuff.
You may have seen them before, but check the Spacedock channel for me Expanse ship breakdowns similar to this. He was even contracted by the show to create some stories for background ships like for the UN Leonidas!
dihoxide the more contributors the merrier - provided they’re accurate and in the spirit of the story
The funny part about this ship is that throughout the series the UNN is mocked by a lot of people as being outdated yet a single earth company made the most advanced and scary ship in the show
Protogen had Martian collaborators.
Glad you made the point about stealth not being like magic to them.
Stealth technology (in terms of radar and thermal concealment) isn't a new technology to them, being nearly a 400 year old technology at that point.
It felt mystic among them because being able to apply that kind of tech to a ship that size was exorbitantly expensive.
Ben I like how you've managed to refine your composition, you make the little quips and are no longer jarring! Ala Gogeta was an excellent reference that was both relevant and funny
Thanks dude. Haha, I'm glad you see improvement!
I watch your videos along with generation tech and I love all your channels and collabs! Sorry you were the last I subbed to but better late than never!
Jesus, This dudes routine is to shower, make a youtube video directly after getting dressed.
Be thankful he gets dressed first.
Actually, I can't say I always wear pants.
@@GenerationFilms who does? Not like we see below the waist.
An interesting note, is that someone in the book points out that the Stealth tech is a strategic weapon, not at tactical one. There is no human stealth in the galaxy that could hide a drive that was on and firing, though it did make it hard to pick up on the size and shape of the ship itself, also including its weapons. So an accelerating or decelerating stealth ship would be visible via its drive plume. That said, they could (and did) park the stealth ships and leave the drives off, making them basically impossible to spot, which is how they ambushed that Cant and later the Roci over Thoth.
Close together, the multiple drives firing would be hard to distinguish, as the show indicated, leading the Donnager to view 6 ships as 1 at first, until the stealths reoriented. (Note, in the books, all 6 were coming from vaguely different areas of the belt, and all 6's drive signatures were visible to the Donny.)
It's amazing that a private citizen was able to secretly build a ship that could take on the best martial warship. That would be like Warren Buffett secretly building a navy that could take out US carrier group. Or Elon Musk secretly building a jet fighter that could take out an F22.
Who do you think builds weapons? Military does not have engineers or factories…
Not to understate the battle at toth station, the rocinante should have lost based on all the simulations alex ran. It was only by shear luck one of the rail gun shots missed the roci's reactor and the pdc damage did not hit anything more critical than a thruster in the roci.
I always figured that Radar information wouldn't be that useful in space, but rather Ladar devices would be. Instead of bounce back radiowaves, it's just Laser pointers that you direct. This is usually the reason why the Amun-Ra would be black (absorbent paint) and angular plates (refracting the light away from the emitter). It's why the F-117 Nighthawk looks the way it does.
Ben, thanks for introducing me to this show (with you first video about why this show was so good). Just finished season 4, damn season 5 needs to hurry up!
Glad you enjoyed it. I can't wait for the fifth season as well! 😁. I hope more people catch on so they can continue to produce the show well past season five!
I have been telling all my sifi fans friends about it.
me too, i binge watched it because of his review of the rocinnante
Btw i would imagine that trying to correct Amos would be a great way to get punched with a Haymaker xD
PS Donnager Drive overloaded - but keep in mind it was already damaged by direct torpedo hit to the drive section - btw from what i gathered Donnager was outfitted with just 2 railguns because mounting and firing all possible mounts (4) would cause both power and stress issues so firing 2 of them at once was well within the tolerances.
What killed Donny was three fold - first they thought they were engaging some rag tag fleet of crappy ships instead of state of the art military combat ships,
Secondly they thought they had the upper hand where weaponry was concerned - this was a mistake since they got pasted with state of the art missles first and then with multiple railguns - which was uncommon to say the least.
And thirdly yes overconfidence on the part of the donny command crew - heck they even didnt most of the crew to get into suits for combat for one thing and secondly they thought they were the baddest ship around the block so no one will come ring their bell - and then someone did. Basically they thought no one was sane enough to actually attack them. Protogen crew had simple goal kill them for any cost. Command crew wasnt really expecting to be fighting someone who was hellbent on winning to the point of suicide just to take them along for the ride.
That's why I did it over video comm!
insane
Tries to correct Amos' pronunciation of 'Anubis'.
Mangles their own pronunciation of Alex's surname 'Kamal' (Kah-MAL).
Hay sweet I finally cough a video right after it came out^^
2:26 They were intentionally mispronouncing Anubis to give you that real-human-error feel
I think part of the reason Donnager's drive overloaded is it took a torpedo hit during the battle. I havn't found anything to confirm this, but I think something (part of its cooling system?) was damaged, so they had to cut thrust for a few minutes to stop it from overheating.
Your analysis of the Battle of Thoth Station was spot-on. It wasn't that the Amun-Ra is inferior to the Roci, it was just a case of "wrong ship for the job." Stealthy hit-and-run doesn't work when you're trying to defend a fixed position.
Also a small nitpick but Alex's last name is pronounced "kuh-MAL", not "KOM-ul"... and this after you were so insistent on correcting Amos's pronunciation of "Anubis".
No the Donnie shifts power between systems during battle, they were burning almost all power into pdcs and tracking the torpedoes. And completely exhausted the capacitors when firing the railguns. The Donnie is designed as a warship so I really doubt a hit to the external structure would knock out the most important thing on the warship. All shipbuilding is the practice of making compromises so it makes sense to build systems that would need more power than the ship normally provides while not in combat.
Haha, believe me, I do not defend the integrity of my pronunciation skill. Thanks for the input btw!
@@TribuneAquila It seems like a major design flaw though to not be able to power the railguns for more than a couple of minutes at a time without stopping to recharge. They only fired a few shots from each gun, and suddenly they don't have enough power to even maintain 1G thrust. The MCRN has a reputation of having the best ships, highest quality engineering, etc. and the Donnager is the most powerful ship they've got -- I might accept a design limitation like that if it were one of the UN ships, but to me it makes more sense that the battle damage was at least a contributing factor.
A cooling system has to be external (otherwise it's not radiating the heat which is its whole job) so a torpedo hit on the aft section (near the main reactor/engines) could easily damage it. It is a weakness, but an unavoidable one. The designers were probably counting on the PDC's to keep torps from hitting that spot in the first place, but they didn't count on Protogen's torps being so advanced. Still, there were likely multiple redundant cooling systems. You've got for example 4 radiator sections that can be isolated and run independently, but when you lose 1 now you're limited to 75% of your normal sustained power output.
Keep in mind, this is well within the territory of speculation -- there's no definitive evidence either way.
That's why I like the novels more. In the novels, the stealth ships were discovered long before the Donnager even reached the survivors, the Donnager fired first and the stealth ships still took her apart. They also defended Thoth station properly by placing 2 small stealth fighters there instead of the larger stealth frigates.
Another expanse video. I am a happy man right now
Worth mentioning is that in the expanse they don't rely solely on radar but rather on lidar (using light instead of radiowaves, gives you a much further range and works better in space; no way radar could clear a million clicks).
the Martians are very Laconic people ;) and i cant wait for the Magnetar monstrocity details, it will blow me to atoms
Cool video.
7:18 in-universe, close proximity tracking is done via infrared and optical means. the optics are usually refereed to as "scopes" throughout the series. see also the watchtower spy satellites in s3e3 and s5e4
Love The Expanse
To be really ominous it needs to have _cut outs_ and negative space gaps in its hull…
Didn't they watch any recent Star Wars or Star Trek films?
@@NightRaven-lh1bf The Expanse movie … by JJ Abrams.
_I've just given you nightmares haven't i_ 😈
@@casbot71 please go and wash your mouth out with the strongest soap you can find! 😂
@@casbot71 No nightmares, but that's because I'm not going to sleep for three days from the horrific thought of it.
I can totally agree with Anubis not suitable for close range battles.
I considered it more of a dagger : easy to hide, can't slice limbs off but if the first stab done correctly can take out anyone
"Before she could tell him she was a robot." I'm dead.
Didn't the guy over at spacedock channel help design the ships look?
Spacedock didn't design the ships but he did contribute to the official canon of the different classes of ships.
Didn't design the look, but he named them (except for the Anubis)
Generation Films 238K subscribers The Amun-Ra Class ships are awesome, stealthy, and deadly. They're my Number #1 Favorite ship from "The Expanse" TV Series.
Reminds me of Rebel Assault 2: The Hidden Empire. Vader was building a whole fleet with stealth tech.
Aaaaahhhh! Brother! I miss that game. I would beat it but never saw the ending video because the disc was damaged.
I love the tie phantom in general, i think if they used the frame of the phantom but had defender systems they'd have a much more formidable ship as far as visibility goes, the canopy cockpit is evidence enough for me.
Im just a phantom fanboy so theres that. Oh how thrawn would use these. Wait didnt they have hyperdrives?
I just realized the actress playing the Martian captain was the same actress playing umma in the sitcom Kim's convenience! She's great in both!
U Know I subscribed this channel cuz I saw few The Expanse videos
Nice shirt, bradda.
The reason that the Knight was able to identify the Donnager is that the Don was flying with its transponder running.
Flying in super tigh formation so as to seem as one or two ships on radar was a tactic used in the Vietnam War by fighters. It was highlighted again in the movie Top Gun.
thedonager reactor overload, was due to a few torpedo hits in the reactor, nothing else
Just you wait until show catches on to Laconian magnetar class ships like Tempest or Gathering Storm.
I often wondered why Laconians haven't built stealth frigates.
@@andrejspecht8217 i don't think the show will. The show only has one season left and so will probably end before the time skip.
@@indalcecio The answer is obvious, because their ships are impervious to damage, but still, why they haven't built recon ships to pass through the gate, is unclear to me.
@@andrejspecht8217 oh sorry I replied to your comment instead of reculture's. But anyways I think maybe the reasons the laconians did is they had enough recon through other means. In the books they actually OVERestimated how difficult their invasion would be, at least initially.
@@andrejspecht8217 they don't need stealth ships when they got precursor tech and ships
Six frigates taking down a Donager class cruiser is pretty damn good. Like you said. Not godlike, but pretty good. Great for sneak attacks and recon. Definatly the next generation. Like a F-22 vrs a F-15. The 15 is going to have its hands full, but if it can jump the 22 and is flown well it can come out on top.
Can't wait til season 7 when you make a video about the Heart of the Tempest and Gathering Storm
I believe a 3rd asset worth mentioning are the rail guns each Amon Ra class ship had.
What makes the Amun-Ra so intimidating was less the capabilities of the ship and more what it represented for the sociopolitical dynamics of the solar system. You had Martian-level advanced stealth ships that belonged to no nation, and they were the unexpected threat- the "forgotten arm", as the Belters would say- that no one saw coming. Once everyone was aware of them and figured out who they belonged to, their threat level dropped to that of any other Martian frigate. By that point, you had the ring, Inaros' genocidal lunacy, and other threats to cope with, so they were quickly forgotten.
During the Donnager battle the stealth ships were detected because they were decelerating towards the Donnager.
So trying to judge the stealth capabilities off of this is not very fair, as a deceleration burn creates much more emissions.
Th3 Comb1ne. Donnager detected one drive doing decel burn, so they thought they would be fighting 1 ship. Then that ship turned out to be a carrier.
The six ships didn’t just appear within a minute of contact. The Donnager’s crew had been tracking them decelerating towards them.
Protogen makes pretty badass warships for a biotech corporation.
Well Thoth station battle was well planned and a lot of luck. There was a lot of places it could've gone wrong for the Rossi. I think the railgun combined with the stealth was very powerful. You could theoretically approach undetected, shoot, disengage and strike again
Rails guns, unless your looking at the supermassive ones like planetary defense, are mostly portrayed as CQC weapons. so even though ships of smaller size can support rail guns it dos not appear to be that common as mostly like you have better things to use or better uses of power. We also see that smaller ships with rail guns need to mount them in line with the support structure, as apposed to big ship rails guns that can swivel giving smaller ships meaning smaller ships have maneuverability problems with rail guns. The rail gun on the Amun-ra seem to exist less because it is some breakthrough never seen before, but more so its stealth systems means it can get into the range where it rail gun is incredibly effective easily as compared to other ships.
They look awesome though, can't argue that I think lol.
The Amun-Ra Stealth Ship would've been unbeatable if it had [Naramin Dynamics] PDC (Point-Defense Cannons) like the MCRN vessels, instead of the simple swivel [Redfield Ballistics] PDCs they possessed, limiting their firing arcs.
The whole idea behind the stealth frigates is that they are privateers - built in secrecy to the most advanced tech available without raising any red lights. Yes, Mao has friends in high places on his payroll, but still the fewer people know about the Amun-Ra, the better for his goals. Their whole purpose was to trigger a war and remain unnoticed in the process. It is a miracle, that a UN-MCR war was averted and the stealth frigates discovered.
@@Locomotion-uz4ly I'm just saying it would've a worthwhile investment to install better PDCs and not cost ALL your advanced stealth ships JUST to start a war. Said Stealth Ships could've been utilized further into the conflict, and after, either to continue harrassing both opposing forces via hit-and-run tactics and delivery of their Hybrid monsters/pods.
Only 1 ship was lost because of torpedos from the donnager. So the PDCs must have been realy good.
they overwhelmed the donnager, no small feat.
at close range the weakness of the ship becomes apparent for all it´s sophistication they lacked what martians apparently have in abundance...... good PDC´s for CQB´s :D
Nice shirt! Shout out from Hawaii.
Aloha! (did I get that right?)
@@GenerationFilms Rajah!
Lol "before she could tell him she was a robot"
The question I always had was; could marines from two small vessels (not much bigger than the Rosinante) actually take over a Mars 'battleship' with it's compliment of marines and navy personnel?
they had Protogen battle suits, which were even more powerful than the MMC Golith power armour suits.
Do a video on gaint robots like power rangers
Also if the Donnie had expected to be in a fight it would have launched its corvette class frigates to screen the Donnie, and with those in play no way the Amun ra ships would’ve even touched the Donnie.
You're right.
It was revealed before the battle of Thoth station that the Amun-Ra’s advanced torpedoes would have easily been able to knock out the Roci.
So considering the Donnager had no cover to work with, deployed frigates would largely be fodder.
@@th3comb1ne13 youre right, if the Roci were alone, but teamwork makes the dream work baby!
Chad C Except the stealth craft’s crew likely have better teamwork. And just plain better technology to back it up.
The stealth ship is a sneaky sniper vs the Rossi which is a close-in browler. A more appropriate defensive position for the stealth ship would have been o have it sitting some distance from the station in hiding where it could then snipe approaching enemies. Not sitting next to the station ready to get into a brawl. My guess is they thought they could snipe any approaching enemies before they got to close, not thinking that anyone could pull off their own sneaky approach.
Wasn't it mentioned in the show that the stealth panels on them actually from Mars anyway?
The flip and burn maneuvers would have been brutal on the crew unless they were strapped in very close to the ship's center of gravity.
Unlike the MCRN Donneger or Assault Cruiser Scirocco, and unlike the UNN Xerxes-Class Zenobia and Truman and Leonidas-class battleships--the Amun-Ra-class Stealth Frigates *lacked rotating mounts* for their light railguns; thus, to target another ship with its railgun, the Amun-Ra would have to maneuver its entire body so that its bow pointed straight at its target. Tactically, this would be inconvenient and time-consuming. All the Donneger et al have to do to target an enemy ship with one of their railguns is swivel their railgun mount.
How close the ships in expanse can get to the speed of light?
Yes, we all know by now Amos isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, I don't think he's versed on ancient Egyptian gods but he sure can fix stuff.
I assume the crews of the 6 Amun-Ras that attacked the Donnager were made up of war-hungry UN and/or Belter veterans specifically. That could help to explain how they were convinced to go on such a suicide mission
8:48 I have to disagree here. The Roci's railgun upgrade was most likely derived from Protogen's tech, just like the new armor in season 6, and an improvement on the Amun Ra's miniaturized weapon. The railgun was the third greatest advantage of the Amun Ra, and the only thing that allowed them to fight the Donnager. Otherwise I am fairly sure they would have never inflicted as much damage as they did (the battleship was floating inside of its own cloud of debris by the time the boarding happened), and quite possibly would not have survived long enough for the impact on the reactor housing to force the ship to shut down its drives. Incidentally, captain Yao's tactical failure was mainly assuming that she was facing ships that were possible according to her knowledge. The Amun-Ras had stealth, which no one but her own people should have, had torpedoes with better guidance systems than anyone, and railguns which flat out shouldn't have been possible. All in all, taking out four out of six enemy crafts in combat, all with a green crew while facing off fanatical veterans piloting ships that just shouldn't have been possible was one hell of an achievement. As Ciaphas Cain says, it's what you don't know that kills you, and that applied to the Donnager. And even then, the flagship of the MCRN did its people proud.
The Amun-Ra class stealth frigate - half hunter-killer submarine, half commerce raider.
The issue with "stealth" in space, even if one could pull it off, in am environment with all kinds of background radiation, you just need to look for the odd blank spot amongst the background radiation.
Makes angle of approach even more important. Requiring a lot of calculations. Making it not only a game of sensors but also of computing power.
If i was a martian general, i'd have the Kopesh railguns reversed engineered and mounted on every fucking martian ship. Fuck the stealth tech. The mini railgun is the best thing about this ship. In fact, if Amun-Ra ships were converted into combat vessels, they'd be terrifying.
Radar? Wouldn't detection be based off line of sight or lidar?
The distances involved with space combat immediately rule out the use of radar. The EM waves travel at a snails pace when compared to the speed of light.
Light is also a EM wave. Just as microwave (radar and telecomms)...
It's assuemd that their radars compensate for a "long" lag in return of the signals, probably over a second long (like tracking an object half way to the Moon), just like astronomical "radars" (modified radiotelescopes) track and map asteroids from Earth nowadays.
Actuallu, the kind of radar expected to be used in The Expanse is quite feasible with our current technology.
Anyubus
Needed more PDCs, and it didn't need the shuttle. Obviously the shuttle was there for plot reasons, but the lack of PDCs is just an in universe design flaw I guess. PDCs don't generate any heat when they're inactive, and stealth is no longer the priority once torpedoes are locked on to you. More PDCs might have kept more ships alive in the fight against the Donnager, and likely would have finished off the Roci before it could get in close to their blind spots. Still a wicked ship in terms of its presentation in the show.
Can anyone explain to me WTF happened to the first missile barrage from the Donnager?
The writers seemed to just forget about it. The magical stealth ship just ignored then?
When's the last book coming out? I need closure :)
Probably fall or winter of this year
Does anyone think the Donnager could have survived with a veteran captain and crew?
Considering a crew trained with simulators was able to take out four of the six attacking craft. I would say If the crew had been as seasoned as Captain Yao then yes I think they would’ve faired better.
Amun-Ra's were ambushers - they werent really meant to slug it out in long pitched out fleet battles - If they were meant to be used in combet they were the harrassers - meant to threathen shipping and disrupt convoys - so sending them against a battle ship and taking it down only proves that they were insanely dangerous even outside their "normal" usage. Granted they needed 5+ of them to do it but look at the numbers - whats more costly - building several Amun-ra's or a Donnager class ? That said - ambushers rarely make a good ground pounders - they have their usage and window of oportunity to achieve their goals but you should stick for the initial role to maximise efficiency. Basically using an Ambush alpha striker to defend the Thoth station was a bad use of the ship - its like using a sniper for close quarter combat. aka it can do it but don't expect much.
Make sense
So in other words the Amun-Ra was more of an F-117 than an F-22 got it
BTW the crew of the Donnager should have been able to repel the boarders. They would have had more than enough time to suit up and find their weapons. Let's just say that the two surviving frigates could have deployed a total of 100 mercs to the Donnager... even the most bad ass commandos would have had a very hard time against a capital ship full of armed and ready Martians.
His girlfriend was a robot?!?!? Now that floored me...
i love the expanse and love your belter cosplay how do make your skin so pale ?
God brightened me using Photoshop.
SO question about the stealth. Like M P said, the Donnager was tracking the stealth ships for a while. They weren't able to know there were 6 until they all broke off and started attacking, but thats because they were hiding in the wake of the other ships ( we saw the roci do this on the attack of thoth station). But Dawes was able to mask himself as well in debris when he was fleeing by not using the fusion engine either, and Alex was able to hide the Roci by Jupiter by not using the main drive either. How is the stealth of the Amun Ra any different then them?
They used the moons and debris to hide. Amun Ra does not need to do so.
Is it me or did that cap thing behind the pc monitors move
Can you imagine, if Mao-Kwakowski really wanted a navy of their own, they could have just built them...if only one small part (Protogen) can build that many stealth ships, imagine what the entire company could have done
Rocinante had plot armor, if it got defeated early than the show ends…
Why protogen want to destory Cant and want to capture Don?
Coolest name ever tho
Maybe somebody should have installed optical sensor backups. A silhouette is a silhouette is a silhouette. Even in space.
I had assumed that Mars contracted their stealth ships from the same people who built these stealth ships so it was the same technology.
Donny was a lumbering giant battle ship attacked by murder Hornets bent on donnie's death.
Actually, major mistake was not using opportunity for exercise and NOT deploying Donnager's roundabouts / auxiliary vessels.
Any stealth tech is of absolutely no use under thrust. A multi-terawatt incandescent plasma exhaust of ANY drive as powerful as the epstein drive can be easily and quickly detected from across the solar system or even further out. Also, it can't be mistaken for anything else, let alone a natural phenomenon.