Kingpin Clarifies Marvel Decision To Make Netflix Daredevil Canon
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- čas přidán 18. 01. 2024
- John and the crew discuss Vincent D’Onofrio who currently plays Kingpin in the MCU recently commenting on Marvel’s decision to make the Netflix Daredevil series canon.
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John is VERY wrong about Kingpin being a person who doesn't let the emotional overcome his judgment.
His literal origin is the opposite. The way he killed his father. And the way his mother covered it up. THAT'S Netflix's Kingpin. A manchild that let's his emotions get the better of him and then has to cover it up. He had Wesley for that as an adult. And then he didn't. We first see Fisk lose his shit at the Russian interrupting his date, killing an ally he needed and inadvertently instigating a civil war between their factions, but Wesley covered it up which saved the situation by redirecting to Daredevil. Then Vanessa gets poisoned and he again of course is emotional and distracted from his duties, which was why Vanessa was poisoned in the first place by the Owl guy (forgot his name). Then once Wesley is killed, he's grief stricken and does something very dumb by killing Urich with his own hands. Wesley is not there anymore to prevent him from doing emotional, and incriminating things. He's even more pissed because he found out they talked to his mother, and that's a line that he finds unacceptable.
He's EXTREMELY emotional when his family or loved ones are concerned, and that is how he has been shown to be time and time again since he killed his own father to protect his mother. He's a ticking time bomb that explodes, then is put back together, and pretends he didn't explode, which is where his intellect and tact come in. But let's not kid ourselves, he is basically a murderous child, and that is the beauty of this Fisk because he's absolutely terrifying due to that quality. That he is possible of great love, and blind rage due to it.
I'm surprised John thinks this is a man that always wins over his emotions. He doesn't "use" his rage, he IS that rage, his mind is what he uses to cover it up.
Your not wrong but the execution of the Disney version doesnt feel consistent to how the Netflix crew would use him. I dont think Steven DeKnight would wrote him this way if he was writing Echo.
You make a solid point, it reminds me of the original Frank Miller Daredevil stories and how after what happened to Vanessa in that series Kingpin just became more vicious
4:05 what happened to "YOU EMBARRASSED ME IN FRONT OF VANESSA!" *proceeds to bash a Russian's head off in a fit of rage which was detrimental to his scheme*
Fisk has always been a child trapped in a adult body.
You can be the same character and still act different ppl change over the yrs and its been yrs after the Netflix shows took place well thats how i look at it
So, can we get Wilson Bethel's Bullsey back ?
That cliffhanger 🥶
I thought I saw a report that he's back but idk how credible it was
@@JoshArtisto If they said this is just Daredevil S4, watch all the discourse flip 180
Saw a recent rumor that he is returning in Born Again
I don't Charlie Cox meant that it was not the same Daredevil, he probably meant that Born Again wasn't going to be the same show.
Hopefully it respects the tone and themes of the original and mix it with new ideas.
Marvel Netflix is always canon for me.
Kingpin on the netflix show decapitated someone over an honest mistake and that eventually led to his own defeat at the hands of Daredevil in season 1. Hes always been irrational and emotional when its personal to him
hes also deeply cunning and calculated, Echo leaned more into the man-baby than the guy who had an old lady stabbed to death to bait daredevil. This Kingpin seems less intimidating overall.
they did it right tho. it was unhinged and scary. this kingpin is cute
He always had temper tantrums. You just forgot the scene with "Give me your jacket" after hearing some bad news. He keeps a cool composure, but his body language constantly shows that he struggles with rage. Also, at one point in S1 he had an unending episode of temper tantrum to the point that Wesley had to bring Vanessa to calm him down. So it's blaming Echo for being accurate to Netflix' Kingpin.
It’s not about the tantrums, but more so the situations of Kingpin having to be overly subservient to the point of begging for some person’s forgiveness and getting ‘quick n easy’ defeats. Season finale of Hawkeye, Echo stands in one place and straight up shoots Fisk point blank after getting her ass kicked by Hawkeye earlier. In Echo, they give the mc new found powers that weren’t part of the original comics, and she does some healing magic on Fisk to make him cry like a bitch and run to his car to get away tf?!
Meanwhile, in Daredevil, Matt struggled with his faith, the cops, russian goons, and an immortal ninja all to get to Fisk at the end but it was still a hell of a fight going one-on-one with Fisk even using Matt’s own baton to beat his ass! Even with Vanessa Fisk never apologized for killing people, he clearly said “I’ve hurt people Vanessa! And I’m going to continue to hurt more!”
@@montenegroafro4454 He did apologize to Vanessa, asking her if he's a monster. He was almost pushing her away, being very self-conscious. Luckily for him, she enabled his violence.
Maya suddenly having OP powers doesn't make Kingpin "cry like a bitch". She almost forced him to relive his trauma all over again, and if you don't have trauma that triggers you good for you, but it can be extremely painful. And considering he didn't really fight anyone with superpowers before, he just was confused and didn't know what to do. No matter how badass a man can be, they still have that vulnerability, especially emotional and psychological because we choose to suppress our inner problems instead of dealing with them.
The last episode had dumb writing that wasn't satisfying, but the problem was in Maya's writing, not Fisk.
It's funny how john always uses charlie cox's comments about the netflix shows not being canon for his argument while ignoring every single time vincent d'onofrio has said that it's the exact same kingpin
So? Charlie Cox was right and Vincent was wrong. SImple as that.
@sebganske1992 still he didn't take two opinions into account, he was biased and only used one version to further his claims
@@sebganske1992funny now cox is considered wrong and d'onofrio was right all the time
John, I hate to say, brother, but you are way off on Kingpin and his emotions. As many have aforementioned, madafaka straight killed people who raised his ire lol
I wouldnt say Kingpin has been ruined but they didnt land his arc in Echo.
What would Netflix Kingpin do if Wesley had shot him intending to kill him? I would put that at least on parr with someone visiting his mum or killing his close friend.
So he would give a meandering but terrifying speech and then he would rage out and kill them.
But with Echo, he kept trying to coerce her back, without exploring why he killed her father. Jealousy over her? Business, how her father was running TSM? Kingpin never denies it, just asks her if she believes Hawkeye over him. It was the main obstacle on their relationship and it wasnt explored at all.
Im glad this is happening. The Netflix stuff (Iron Fist notwithstanding) was well received and there is no reason to disregard it. It's needlessly stubborn corporate buffoonery. Its honestly what Disney should have done with Star Wars as well. Instead of relegating everything as "Legends" and make something derivative, just embrace it and use the stories you already have in front of you.
Just because you don't like the projects a certain character showed up in doesn't mean the character wasn't portrayed in a way that is consistent with the character. Kingpin in Echo acted just as crazy and emotionally unstable as the DD version
Agreed
Was Kingpin that different in Hawkeye/She Hulk/Echo?? I don't think so. Not as drastically as some are saying
I feel you're a bit harsh on Kingpin in Echo, was he throwing a bit of a tantrum? Sure. The issue is this reaction is probably very valid we just haven't been given enough time and good writing to truly see his and echos bond. He has been rejected by someone he considers a daughter after forgiving her for "killing" him, i think with better writing and more episodes his loss of control is justifiable. Echo kingpin was a big step in the right direction.
Disney making a thing canon does not make their shitty content better. Disney is uncapable and unwilling to do something good.
just taking credit for someone elses work
John is like if a head coach in a press conference after the game keeps bringing up that they actually were winning at the half. Yes sure but you lost by 50 after that. End of story.
Just accept that you were wrong and move on.
Looking forward for Daredevil.....Zorro on Amazon prime is surprisingly excellent.
Hey guys! I think the show would benefit if you guys could add links to sources (articles and all that) in the description.
That’ll help with further reading post-video-watch.
Campea is always using Charlie Cox's comments as his "proof" when Charlie saying Born Again isn't S4 or that it's a different tone, it's own thing, etc. doesn't mean he's confirming it's a different universe or different canon. What's funny is that D'Onofrio, ever since December 2021, has constantly said in interviews and even tweeted that it was always the same universe and same canon and that Marvel Studios is just embracing it now. But of course, Campea never goes there. Whatever supports the bias, I guess. So much for presenting dual sides of the argument, or not twisitng Charlie's comments to fit the narrative
@Whatwhatwhat1135 I debated on whether to bother replying to you cause idk what the point of your comment was. I know it's not a S4. It's a sequel series. I'm saying John is treating Charlie's comment of it not being a S4 as confirmation it's a new canon when that's not at all what Charlie said.
It seems to be like you're the one who missed something. Literally reread the entirety of comment, especially when I talked about what D'Onofrio said, and read what others have also written. Rather than singling on bit out and trying to say 'something' about it
Kingpin in Hawkeye was much more different from daredevil then echo was different from daredevil. He seemed consistent with the car door, his father scene, season 3 with daredevil talking about his wife scene. I think in echo the stuff that blew up was am
Assuming hulk/cap serum which explains king pin prob had some juice in him in Hawkeye.
I for one appreciate the wrestling analogy lol
And i for two agree with you!
Turned him into a whiny baby ? Does everybody just have selective amnesia when it comes to the original Daredevil ?
Do you? There's a difference between a man child and being cartoonishly angry
@@ChrisControversial Slamming a man's head head with a car door for being embarrased isn't cartoonishly angry ?
@@stephenbrame3042 he's saying the way they executed it doesn't fit his character. As even in anger kingpin maintained an intimidating controlling persona.
Personally I’ve enjoyed the Kingpin we’ve gotten in the MCU thus far, to me there’s not really much of a difference, this news kinda concerns me because it kinda sounds like Marvel pulling a cowardly move and trying to hide behind the safety of what people already said they like, that’s the same reason as to why I don’t want Marvel to change the big threat of this saga to Doom, if you made a plan you stick with it, you don’t just let fan reception push you around and dictate your decisions, you know what that shows? Lack of confidence, there’s nothing wrong with deciding to filter aspects of his old personality back into the character, but straight up saying that it’s now the same continuity as the Netflix show even though you said it wasn’t shows that Marvel didn’t have the balls to have this continue to be it’s own thing and I’m very disappointed in them
I wonder if the Born Again subtitle will still make sense or if they're goining to change that.
Let it go Let it go
On Fisks eye. When he took off the patch to unveil his healing eye, there was this awkward lingering on the moment and on the patch had a blue light. Now, not being an expert on the latest eyepatch tech, I felt like that was Marvels half baked attempt to suggest that alien healing tech is now readily available (at least for those with $). Probably sourced post battle of NYC. Not for sure, but a 5 episode season and clunky story suggests to me a lot was cut out of Echo.
The Hawaiian shirt is from the Hawkeye comics. It's not like Kingpin isn't allowed to wear it.
not consistent to the prefered portrayal. Comic Thanos was goofy as hell, MCU grounded him and made him compelling. For the film medium, Netflix Kingpin is more interesting than Disney Kingpin.
@@Neo24931 Thanos wasn’t goofy.
sure he could wear graphic tees too...
I understood the wrestling references...
Hey John, have you heard who they chose to play the younger version of Michael Jackson for the Michael Jackson biopic film? The actor who will be playing the kid version of Michael Jackson is Juliano Krue Valdi.
Pretty sure he covered the casting when it was first announced.
Society of the Snow? ❤
If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it...
They need to bring back the kingpin cane
I'd be interested in seeing how they explain the two different Kingpins as, in terms of release dates, Hawkeye was before the Multiverse issues in No Way Home and Multiverse of Madness.
there's no Multiverse involved here, David...
Kevin Feige and the writers he hire on these past shows are the one to blame for changing Fisk and Daredevil. They want to put their own idea rather than going to the ones that actually works aka the Netflix series.
How does one not like American Badass?
Let this be the netflix continudity, i dont care for the mcu cinematic universe,drop the connections pls😂😂😂😂
The tropical shirt look from the kingpin of from the comics but it was a weird choice to go with
I DO NOT understand why you’re still on this man. Its canon, PERIOD. Lol
Now. It wasn't before, but it's now been changed to make it canon. That's all he's saying.
D'onofrio always considered it canon to his performance. There were no plans to have direct connections to the show besides D'onofrio and Cox, but now there are connections.@@ChaseSchleich
@@ChaseSchleichwas always Canon till Feige feuded with Netflix
@deontecoleman7047 Wasn't so much Netflix feuding with Feige. It was more Ike Perlmutter feuding with Feige. Perlmutter had complete control over Marvel TV. If he wanted Agents of SHIELD or Daredevil to be canon, there was nothing Feige could do about it. Perlmutter was removed after the Netflix shows fell apart which is when Feige got full control and declared that none of the Perlmutter era of Marvel TV shows were canon.
sorry Ray but that version of Stone Cold sucked
All those shows were already part of the MCU lol. They made many references to the films, therefore they are canon. It’s not hard to comprehend.
For campea yea it is lol
echo is ass... just cause they say its canon doesnt mean its great. its literally laughable. theyre just trying to save themselves
Just spoiling echo ok nothing to see here
Scented deodorant is disgusting.
All Netflix marvel shows are canon we are going to get Mayor Wilson Fisk
The post credit scene in Echo confirmed that that’s where Daredevil: Born Again is going
Anyone mad about what they did to our Street Thanos?
More like Street level Kang cause he keeps getting L's at this point
I'm mad because they are still using Thanos and the Avengers in a desperate move to sell tickets and subscriptions
They did that because it was Disney Family friendly lol
The Marvel netflix are Canon to the MCU
sorry john
just admit that you were wrong
He isn't wrong... about that anyway. It started out canon, then post-Endgame they decided they didn't want it to be, and now it is again. This is not just John talking out his ass, listen to the interview.
wrong. they only most recently changed their mind to make it canon, as confirmed by Vincent D'Onofrio (Kingpin)
@@DanielChannel89no matter what you or john say the Netflix marvel shows are cannon to the MCU and you just have to deal with it.
@iraford5788 lol I'm glad they are canon. I like the Netflix shows! I'm not saying they aren't canon, I'm saying that they weren't for almost 5 years because Marvel decided they didn't want them to be. They have said that. Your insistance on glossing over that doesn't make it not true.
So are they restarting Daredevil: Born Again? Or are they just saying “it’s canon now” just so people will watch a season that the producers disliked?
They're reshooting the whole show.
Lets just say it like it is: the people making this show dont know whetter its canon or not.
And now the actors need to try to explain this disaster to the audience, because the writers certainly dont care enough to
I’m sorry but hell no Matt with She-Hulk. Was cringe moment for me
Disney ruined Kingpin. Just give Daredevil back to Netflix.
and the X-Men too
Give Daredevil back to Netflix? Netflix never made the shows. They had no involvement. They just distributed it. It's always the ignorant ones,...
@@loganbigmoso if disney is responsible for daredevil series, why cant they replicate the quality?.. riddle me that genius
@@LivinglikeJay-iq3io Because they're not using the same team, genius. Marvel Television made the shows from 2013-2019. The launch of Disney+ in 2019 had Kevin Feige put in charge, and he shut down Marvel Television so that all future shows could be done by his filmmaking division. Which they had no experience in, so they failed.
The writers they've been hiring as of late are also subpar. But at the end of the day, the oiriginal Daredevil show was done by Marvel (just not Kevin Feige's team) and it was also during the time when Disney owned Marvel
@@loganbigmoDisney still owns Marvel they have since 2009.
Kingpin's Hawaiian shirt made me want to put gauze over my eye... and the other eye too.
Let vincent have fun with kingpin, it was his choice to have the shirt for one of his favorite characters based on one of his favorite comics
@@bobafett3178now we are being honest. lets have fun 😄
@@bobafett3178 this guy probably doesnt read comics.
Well, in any case, the MSheU is done.
Finally, somebody else sees how KP got all stupid and Emotional in Echo! That wasn't the KP from DD!! The KP we ALL KNOW & LOVE, is Calculating, Cunning, Vengeful & THOUGHTFUL! I'm not sure who that was in Echo!
I’m sorry but hell no Matt with She-Hulk. Was cringe moment for me
It was awesome
Agreed it was cringey like 90% of marvel lately