We need to talk about the Floyd Rose FRX...
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- čas přidán 22. 06. 2022
- Originally released in 2014, after years of development, the FRX was conceived as a surface mounted, Floyd Rose bridge that could be retro-fitted to a guitar that never had one. It never quite caught on... but I think it needs another look. This Sawtooth Vudu is one of the few production guitars that comes with an FRX. Let's check it out.
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That bridge has a guitar installed on it.
🤣👏
Man but does it look good. I mean stupid good. Had I not seen this video I would have thought it was a junk guitar with a high quality term. Turns out their low priced guitars are junk but they make more expensive good quality guitars.
@@yactabay ???
😂👍
Under it
Parents: We need to talk about the Birds & the Bees
Guitar MAX: We need to talk about the Floyd Rose FRX
😊
I put one of these on my SG, and I'm actually fairly impressed by the quality. One quick tip from personal experience though, putting a small dab of either beeswax or paraffin wax on the pivot points helps it move a lot more smoothly. Other than that, I haven't had any issues with mine.
My 1998 Vigier Excalibur has ball bearings at the fulcrums instead of blades. The bridge tremolo is a locking Floyd Rose style with locking nut. It stays in tune forever no matter how crazy I get with it. It also has a zero fret that makes it the fastest buzz free neck I've ever played. I think I'll die owning it. It's basically the only electric guitar I play any more. My PRS Custom 24 will get out of tune if I get too crazy with the whammy bar, it hasn't been played for a long time now. Both guitars have wonderful tone, but I think the Vigier sustains a little more. I have to admit the PRS is a lot easer to string up and tune.
I've done that (some paraffin scrapings) on my regular Floyd trems too, it does indeed work perfectly!!
Graphtec could (should) make replacement posts... 😎👍
@@insanetubegainVigier guitars are stunningly well made... Expensive but definitely worth it.
I put the FRX on my Les Paul back in 2016 and everyone told me I was foolish. I purchased it directly from Floyd Rose and I was immediately impressed with the performance on this new bridge. Tuning stability increased 10 fold and I no longer had to constantly tune my guitar as before. This FRX replaced the Bigsby Vibrato which would never return to "0" Kudos to Floyd Rose for developing this marvelous bridge...!!! Thanks Max for this review...🤘✌️👍
To me these guitars are way overpriced , after looking at several reviews on amazon these guitars are not worth the price IMO!
@@mikeg.9238 This video is about a Floyd Rose BRIDGE... that can fit on Chinese Les Pauls, Epiphones, etc.
@@FrankHarv Your point!?
@@FrankHarv well
Mine was put on a 2011 Gibson Les Paul Traditional, back in 2016...!!! The video is about the FRX, not just about the
Sawtooth....
Have a rocking day!🤘
@@mikeg.9238 The video is about a Floyd Rose bridge. Not if the demo guitar is worth what they ask for it.
I have a Tokai Pink Paisley LP and a Tokai LP Custom both fitted with FRX. Super happy. I fitted myself. The Custom needed a little route (small indent made to the top) to make space for part of the spring attachment. No big issues. These bridges absolutely rock!❤❤❤
That is a fine looking and sounding guitar. Sawtooth puts a lot on amenities into their builds. Amazing benefits of this bridge are new to me.
I like the way it looks.
I purchased an FRX second-hand to install on my Les Paul DC. I have zero experience either Floyd Rose bridges nor Installing bridges on any guitar. It's not as intimidating as it looks. I followed the instructions, took my time and had excellent results. By far, the best tremolo of any guitar I own, including several guitars that are stock. return to zero on this tremolo is second to none. My only critique about it is the included locking nut. The screw that comes with it appears as though it will come out the other side of the head. It didn't, but was easily twice the length of the original truss cover it replaced. If you have a guitar that's been refinished, I'd be willing to bet it would go through.
Other than that, it is a beautiful replacement tremolo. The price is the only reason I haven't installed one on every guitar I own that has a stopbar tailpiece. Hard to justify paying $300 to install it on a $300 Epi.
I guess it depends on if you plan on selling the guitar. If you plan on keeping the guitar, it's totally worth putting a FR on it. Even if your guitar is only $300, adding the bridge may give you playability of a $1200 guitar
@@way2sh0rt07grad 💪😎👍 My thoughts
exactly! No surgery or routing, either! Going
to install the new FRX that I just got @ $250
on sale onto either my Epiphone LP Special
(twin P90's) or one of my Firefly Les Pauls...
Instant upgrade & now it's one sick axe for
either $330 or $450, depending which one!!
I discovered this bridge because of you Max. I now have one on my Harley Benton SC Custom II EMG and I love it. Works EXACTLY like it should and looks fantastic!
I find this demo, review, and video very informative. Great presentation, like always. Please keep the informative and fantastic demos, reviews, and videos coming!!
I have not had the pleasure of playing a guitar equipped with this bridge. In fact, I had no idea it existed until I watched this video.
Max, I subscribed to your channel just now. I am a _looooong_ time Floyd Rose user and advocate. What that means is, I have 8 guitars, and every one of em has a Floyd on it. The whammy bar to me is like a little instrument of its own, but unlike other instruments must be attached to a guitar to work its magic.
Setup can certainly be a gigantic torment if you don't know what you're doing, _but_ ...
.....once you realize that the plane of the strings is what you need to match with the plane of the movable part of the bridge , you're all downhill from there. As long as the flat top surface of the movable bridge piece is _exactly parallel_ with the strings (and as long as you stretch your new strings as you install them), you literally cannot go out of tune. If you have the bridge sort of leaning forward (front edge low, rear edge high), when you drop or raise pitch with the bar, you're gonna come back a bit flat. Reverse that so the front of the bridge is high & the rear low, and you will come back sharp. Every.damn.time.
Which brings us to the FRX. Imma tell ya right now, I like this thing a lot. Your concise, clear, and accurate demo style is superb, so much so that you convinced me that I need at least one guitar with an FRX on it. For anyone reading through these comments, I wanna say that what Max is telling you is like 1,000% correct. Floyd Rose units are something I know very well, it being that my very first Floyd was purchased by sending my guitar to Floyd himself, in Washington, where he installed it himself on my 1973 blonde Strat. This was when fine tuners were still in Floyd's inventive subconscious mind my Floyd Rose was the very first model. I think only EVH, Randy Hansen, and Brad Gillis were ahead of me; I got FR # 15 or something.
This FRX bridge is bad _ass!_ Also, Max, so is that Sawtooth Voodoo guitar. So _duuuude,_
you sold me on two items, not one lol.
Really like your demo style, Max, and it does not hurt that you're also an excellent player. I do not mean to sound like some snob, because I was a guitar noob when I first started, you were a guitar noob, Steve freaken Vai was a guitar noob lol...BUT...there is nothing more frustrating to me than trying to make a decision about a guitar or guitar gear based on a demo by someone who cannot ( _yet_ emphasis is there to hammer that nothing-wrong-with-
being-a-beginner nail home) play very well.
Sorry about the long winded comment🤣but you really did sell me on FRX and the Sawtooth guitar.
†‡DISCLAIMER†‡
I am not being financially compensated for the views expressed here. This comment is so favorable towards Max, the FRX & Floyd Land in general, simply because I think the product and the dude demo'ing them are in point.
Your knowledge, as always, is supreme. You make the best guitar and most informed videos around. Food for thought every time.
Another awesome demo from an awesome fellow! Way to go Max!!
What a cool bridge concept. Love your videos!!!
Been considering putting one of these on my next project guitar and there were no reviews that went as in-depth as I needed. This video is perfect and the bridge is 100% going on the next guitar I make modifications to
I have one on my custom built guitar I had made, easily one of my favorite bridges next to the Gotoh brand Floyd Rose. I love the ease of setting it up and actually being able to do bends without taking the guitar out of tune, tuning stability is amazing, the range of motion is really good and how tight it is, plus being able to show people who are interested in my guitar when they ask about the bridge that there isn’t a route on the back is a bonus.
Haven't used it, but I think the more I think about the functions, the more I see how much work Floyd obviously put into this thing. His original "retrofitting an SG" video was cool.
I have 3 frx units. Wonderful piece. If you're deficient with set-up, don't even think about it. It's as much of a beast as a regular floyd to adjust. Once adjusted can't beat it....
I have a theory that people that complain about Floyds...I think it's that they are just not mechanically inclined. I think it's as simple as that.
@@atakdragonfly1675 I agree, I went to a guitar shop and watched a very nice vid on how to properly tune a Floyd Rose. Did it on the spot and it sounded great to my amateur ears lmao!
@@quickdrawmcgraw3567 I just never had... ANY of the problems I hear people come up with! And that's whether it's a real Floyd, licensed Floyd
..Whatever and whatnot.
@@atakdragonfly1675 totally agree. I had never had a floating bridge of any kind until last year. Finally said screw it and got a guitar with a Floyd. Watched a few CZcams vids and when the guitar came in I didn't really have any problems setting it up at all. People just get intimidated and freak themselves out. If you use a little common sense and do a little research they're actually not that bad to set up. Besides once you have one set up it's not going ANYWHERE...
@@atakdragonfly1675 I’ve owned a few & I don’t generally like them. Not for inability to set them up. Just that it makes tuning a PITA & I think it’s ridiculous I need to cut the ends of my strings off. Why it couldn’t be designed to incorporate the strings that _every other guitar takes naturally_ seems to me, as an engineer, to be a sheer stupid engineering decision. They’re great if you care about whammy technique (I don’t. I’m fine with bends & other technique), but otherwise just introduce additional maintenance into the guitar that isn’t worth it unless you need it.
There is one other thing with the magic wheel that locks the bridge is that you can lean your picking palm on the bridge without activating the trem and detuning the strings. This would be why I normally would not touch a Floyd Rose as I find them unplayable, but this is a game changer. Great review thanks
I could tell you really liked that guitar. You played that thing better than all the other I've seen you play.Great video,now I want one💪🏽🔥👍🏽
I’ve heard about those bridges, but I’ve never had the pleasure of playing one. Another great video Maxx, I think I will definitely check one out. 👍🏻
Just my two cents...
I've played a friend's SG that he installed the FRX on.
It plays very well, and like you said, it actually feels great under the hand...much better than I expected.
I love the fact it can be retrofitted without permanent mods, AND it's mass gives added sustain from many testimonials....I tend to agree as well.
My only beef with it is the bulk of the attachment plate/mechanism and how much real estate it takes up.
Not such a big deal on a dedicated performing, or recording mule, but I'd think twice about putting it on a guitar that I value the appearance of as much as the playability, and tone.
That said, I do think it's a cool way to get classic Floyd ultra stable tuning no matter what you throw at it.
I'd definitely consider putting a guitar together around this system to get the benefits of the features, and make it look a bit less of an add on piece which is the main complaint I've heard about it.
A killer video, I'm not sure why this bridge isn't talked about more, it just makes sense. I'll be getting one for my ESP Phoenix!
The thumbscrew also allows you to fix the bridge when changing the strings, which is a *huge* plus for a FR trem.
Concerning the look: it may be a monster, but it still beats the Stetsbar in terms of sleekness and understatement. Which is saying a lot.
Another great video Max, keep up the good work and great playing. Peace from Ireland to you mo chara.
I'd forgotten these existed! 😳 Looks as much work as a regular Floyd though. Honestly the best low maintenance, easy to set, and tune, and most stable trem I ever have used is the Washburn Wunderbar on my old G2V. What a trem! Strings are straight through and the whole trem is surface mounted and rocks on a torsion bar and no springs. Simply cannot knock that thing out of tune! If I could I'd buy up a heap of them and replace all my Floyds! Great video as always Max! 👍
Every details in on the description..thats a must subscribe dude.
I put one on my Herman Lee.it already had a Floyd Rose on it, but the pressure on my posts ruined my posts. I had to do some routing on my guitar but my new rose works rather well and I'm glad I made the change.
Hey Guitar MAX Thank you for the awesome content I installed the FRX on my single cut Sawtooth with no issues just took my time and did some work on the strat style as well
Cool video, thanks for sharing! Very helpful in deciding on if I need to purchase one. Thank you!
Great stuff as always Max!! Thank you!!
My pleasure!
Wow I love the color scheme on that guitar! The gold and dark gray is gorgeous. Plus I love the sound.
I put an FRX on my Epiphone Les Paul and I absolutely love it. I also put in Seymour Duncan Black Winters and it’s amazing. Probably my best player right now
Finally an honest opinion on this bridge! I have been on the fence for a few years on this bridge because of the videos that I have viewed that were not detailed enough. Thank you Max!
Glad it was helpful!
@@GuitarMAXMusic Thank you for replying back! I have one question that all other reviews have not mentioned. How low is the string action? I consider low action to be 1.5mm to 2mm on the low E string and 1.5mm to 1mm on the high E string.
Taz you can still get that action I play lower than that. Only problem I have had with this tremolo is on a sg where the pick guard is. You can’t let the under side of this Floyd rose touch the pick guard or else it will cause it to bind and not return to center at all. Therefore I had to cut out some of my pickgaurd but you can not see it. I figure if I ever remove it I can buy another pickgaurd cheap.
I Installed the FRX on a Fernandes Burny Gold Top Les Paul when it first came out I think it was like 2014. I’m not a great guitar tech, but I got it done, yet my action is high. After seeing you play this one, i’m going to experiment a bit more to try to get the action lower, so thanks!
Agree on the set screw! But I’m still learning how to use it in unison with the thumb screw. I like a sensitive to the touch, trem, but I do not like strings going out of tune! The thumb screw will give you this! But as you suggest, a professional setup is really the way to go here!
Great review as always, Max.
Watching this video, I am reminded of the old surface mounted Washburn Wonderbar trem system from the ‘80’s. They don’t look the same, but the FRX is functionally doing the same things. I have one of the old Washburn Wonderbars and it’s great when it’s all set up perfectly. However, it takes forever to string, tune, fine tune, redo, and so on, ad infinitum. Good luck.
Great video ! I've thought about getting one for my Explorer for awhile. You really gave a great review one it and I'm now convinced to get one. That sawtooth is nice also. Ive had a few Kahlers back in the 80s and never liked Floyds, but this FRX is really cool.
Thanks again and great channel !
what can you tell me about Kahlers?
I've NEVER liked FRs, but they're everywhere.
One day a friend had a sweet guitar and his whammy bar was LIKE BUTTER!
I loved it!! (And I'm pretty sure it was a Kahler.)
Just got mine in today, can't wait to put it on
I have one on every Paul except my 71' Gold Top with the baby-buckers with the Gibson logo on the pick up cover. Some when I did them when they came out, I had to block the bridge so I could put a D-Tuna on it. I never pulled up anyway but it appears, [at a glance] I wouldn't have had to do that "possibly" with that wheel you demonstrated. Absolutely LOVE THEM! Ironically I don't use a whammy bar often. I love them for how incredible they stay in tune more than the trem. I have a traditional Charvel, a Frankenstrat I had built with era accurate components that took longer to get than to have the guitar built and man did this luthier nail it!
I'm glad you mentioned the bridge isn't bulky because it's not and you don't lose ANY SUSTAIN! Highly recommended product!!!
Great Video!
Very nice and thorough demo! I've never played one of these bridges but I do own that Halo guitar, in part because I wanted one ever since seeing it on your channel :)
I just recently got a Les Paul CM Black with one of these, freaking love it!
Nice technology. I retrofitted my SG with a Duesenberg trem system that does not have you modify the guitar and is totally reversible. Neat upgrade if you don't want to rout or damage your guitar. It basically replaces the stop tail by mounting to the already installed posts. This Floyd rose fx looks very interesting. I would purchase the whole guitar system.
super great review and presentation! very helpful.
I completely forgot about the Floyd Rose FRX; I think they've fallen out of public favor because people tend to go after a Stetsbar for an aftermarket TOM Tremolo upgrade
Also Gibson did a few production guitars with an FRX in it: 2016 Gibson SG CM Black Floyd FRX
I'm a Stetsbar owner (on a '92 Gibson V) and coupled with Steinberger Gearless tuners I've had a decent experience with it. Tuning without a locking nut has been good, using a taller Fender Strat type bar has given me great divebomb depth.
But like most Gibsons the Stetsbar hasn't been as sturdy as I'd like. I'm a progressive metal shredder kind of player and I've had an issue with pulling up with the Stetsbar. The Stetsbar gets its down & up pitching by having the entire bridge & tailpiece roll from to back on roller bearings rather than how a FR tilts up & down.
This feature of the Stetsbar is really nice for tuning stability BUT if you pull up with some gusto the tailpiece/bridge plate assembly can lift UP and pop the bar attachment mechanism out of position. I have to be exceedingly care ful pulling up and doing any Dime-esque upward squeals are an absolute no-go.
I'm thinking I just might move up to this FRX being it seems to be made of sturdier stuff than my Stetsbar.
This video all but sold me on it for upgrading my Gibson V and I'm positive I want one on my new custom V I'm building.
Wow I didn't know those existed... that thing is like my ideal bridge, it's perfect. Genius. I love it. Need to see them on mainline guitars like Ibanez and stuff.
I've gotten to the point where I've been able to adjust a Floyd inside and out where it holds up very well. It can still be a pain in the arse! lol. It's patients with the floyds mechanisms and a proper setup with the guitar in my opinion. Any device that comes out that helps make it easier, is definitely welcoming in my mind. Great review, like the channel, ROCK ON! This FRX seems like an ingenious device.
The FRX is completely different. It’s easier to set up than traditional trem systems.
Always love you and respect your videos guitar Max and the time you put into and how you explain and break everything down it is amazing and I appreciate your time and doing all that. Me personally and the 30 years I've played I've only had one guitar that had a Floyd Rose it was late '80s Ibanez RG series when I was kid and I never really was a fan of the Floyd Rose system it does have his benefits but compared to you know your standard tremolo system and your stop tail style is really what I prefer
Wow! Sawtooth doing something pretty unique! Maybe a little oddball kind of. But I’ve always been a bit of a lover of all things oddball. 😜
Awesome video! I'm sold on the FRX!
Thanks Max ,great show !
Always Enjoy your content- subbed a long time ago and look forward to each new video!
The FRX Vibrato combined with a Sustainer Pick-up looks like a very interesting idea 😘✌🏻🖖🏻!
Need to admit, neither have I ever played a Guitar with the FRX, nor have I modified one of my Guitars 😀!
@Ingo Nowack
I just took delivery of a Schecter Sun Valley Super Shredder on the 12th of this month. I can tell you that the Sustainiac is a great tool for guitarists, and the guitar itself is one of the best I've ever owned.
Been looking at one of these for my flying v
Thank You! Your such a Great splainer! Convinced' My Ever Embattled 'ex floyd' Prs just may live again!💪🎼🎸
What a clever piece of kit.
I've been looking the Floyd Rose FRX for years, it never convinced me.
Then I drop on you video.
Me: Sold! I'm buying one for my Les Paul like.
It reminds me of the Kaller witch I have used for 35 years ever since they came out love it! This looks a lot like it...
Even though I don't have guitar cause my parents can't afford electric guitar I still love to watch your video haha
I came for the Floyd, I stayed for the Sawtooth. Great video and demo!
I'm gonna tell my kids this guy was Nathan Explosion.
Neat finally a video about it
I’d like to see a model/option where the large frame is in black while the bridge (resembling a traditional FR) is chrome/gold. I think that would help considerably with the bulky look of it.
Excellent find! I was looking for a solution for my ESP Edwards, and thought about a Bigsby, but this looks like a win!
definitely looks cool and does sick dives
It looks awesome, there are complaints about this bridge from the "divebomb" community in terms of range, I like to use the tremolo in a "gentle way", looks Goth to me and I really like all the features, plus the fact that the extra routing in the back is eliminated
Of course they complain about anything. I love this thing and would 100% would own one if i could
Idk the dive bomb range sounded convincing enough for the low strings. At least for me 🤷♂️
Dive-bombing is actually almost unlimited with that thing. You can tilt it 60 degrees forward with no trouble and it will get back.
About time the Floyds were demystified. There are cases for and against, it's down to the player. The locking capability could be a game changer, for those on the fence, and for those who grew to hate the Floyd.
Switching around on the fly when you've got to do specific things for certain songs seems pretty ideal.
I used to hate floyd rose trems, these days I almost don't even consider a guitar if it doesn't have one.
Check out the bridge on the original Parker Fly. It goes double locking to traditional to hard tail with nothing added, and adjusts up and down with a thumbwheel. Ken Parker is the only innovator since Leo and Les, everybody else is on thier coat-tails, either one or both.
@@willroland9811 that was a very cool bridge, and the one piece neck thru fly, I guess it was the fly deluxe... was probably the smoothest fretboard I ever played. It was carbon with stainless, and boy was it sweet.
I've got one guitar with the floyd fixed at zero, so much more stable tuning using the fine tuners and locked nut.
I have a Gibson CM Black with factory install. My favorite toy .
Great review 👍
The bridge is ingenious. Getting one by buying a Sawtooth guitar is insane!
Love the hair man!
Man It’s Beautiful!
I’ve Never Seen One!
Nice guitar, That FRS is way above my head!
I can't stop seeing the Washburn Wonderbar when I see this monstrosity. LOL
It sounds incredibly articulate.
First time i'm seeing a floyd rose like this. 😯 👌👍 i like it
Great analysis!
That white one looks awesome!
Looks like a killer system!
I recently got to know you Max, and I personally think, the way you speak and explain it’s just amazing. New subs right here. Quick question, do you teach music?
I put one on my Gibson flying "V" and have no complaints!!! Works great!!!
My DREAM GUITAR! That is BAD ASS AF! Love it!
Sounds great and easy to install
Wow, that was pretty amazing!
Thank you very much!
Wow! That thing is cool. I think its beautiful in gold. Id love one and the guitar seems like a descent quality and price. I might have to save for one of those instead of the Dean Cadillac ive been saving for
great video, a good reference i’ve seen of the bridge is annihilator’s jeff waters’ insistence on using these over the years, specially since, as a gibson endorsee, he definitely has access to other stuff, yet still chooses to use the bridge.
So you got me super into this so I am indeed buying a hardtail Ibanez for 350, swapping in this trem, and swapping out the Ibanez pups for Fishmans and the standard tuners for locking rotomatics. All chrome. Gonna look hot!
Nice. I want one on my next build.
great review thank you
wow that bridge is amazing , from what you pointed out I too think it's far superior than the original . But I do wish they did have some cheaper versions , I was really interested in getting one until I heard how much they were . That whole guitar is beautiful . 🐾🐶🎸
nice guitar bro. !!! great video !!!
I've been on the fence about FRX for a good while now
I first saw them on those funky gibsons, fully black with red accents, made of ash, I believe and was really interested, but it's somewhat difficult and understandably pricey in my country, so it was in the back of my mind, occsionally rearing it's head
I was interested in owning guitar with your typical floyd, but it never seemed worth it, too much hassle
Keep in mind I'm using hipshot's hardtails almost exclusively at this point, even tune-o-matic seems... suboptimal after so many years on big and smooth hardtails
After this video, I might actually get some cheapo used arrow and install an FRX on it, for the fun of it, if nothing else, so thank you for comprehensive video, Max!
Subscribed !! I need one of these for my Les Paul Studio Lite. 🎸
Love the channel
I must say . I did not know about that set up . I always wanted a Gibson Les Paul . With a fllod rose set up . So I could get an ep a phone & that flod rose set up & be in the guitar for about 600.00 bucks . I can't spell but I am crafty & crazy enough to do something like that .
Or buy an epi with a floyd they make them
I started out on Fender trems and still love them to death for their tone and simplicity. I graduated to Kahler's and even installed a brass stud-mounted one on to a Les Paul copy (I'm not an idiot, won't do it to the real deal, sacrilege!) I then got my hands on some Kramer's and Charvel's to get some exposure to Floyd's genius and I never looked back. The Kahler's in my house are few, but still do the job well, Fender is, well, Fender. I have gotten to know a lot of licensed Floyd's, especially the Jackson JT580, a fine piece, the Schaller JT500 as well. I took a chance on the FRX recently, it will be soon mated to my ESP Eclipse. If you don't want to use the neck clamp, locking tuners are the next best thing, just don't forget to lube up your nut! As far as my cutting off the ball ends of my strings, ever since I saw Vivian Campbell running his thru the post first and clipping them at the Floyd, (when he was in Whitesnake), I've been doing it that way ever since, just looks cleaner to me. I break a string at the block, unwind abit, reclamp, tune up, I'm good again, no need for a new string!
I suppose if you have to have an FR on a hardtail guitar the FRX makes sense, but there are so many options as you point out to get a guitar with a FR at many different price points; even with a few of the advantages of the FRX.
Good info and review as usual.
Cheers!
It's one of those things that if you REALLY like it... You'll pay for it.
I have 2 gold ones on both my Fernandes Ravelle models..love em.!!🤘🤘
Kahler made their super whammy for retrofitting Les Pauls and other Tune-O-Matic equipped guitars many decades ago way before Floyd Rose did. I have installed quite a few for clients over the years, and it rocks. Of course the Kahler's have a slightly smoother feel, and a slightly shorter range, so not as good with dive bombing, but many who don't do dive bombs prefer it, including myself.
Oh, and anyone complaining that their Kahler doesn't stay in tune like it used to, then they never bothered to read the instructions, because it uses ball or needle bearings, not a knife edge pivot, and therefore requires occasional lubrication. A drop of oil (Not WD-40 but real machine oil) in a few spots, and it's good to go. It too isn't cheep, but well worth the price considering how much better both Floyd Rose's and Kahler's are than most others. kahler's can also be setup for just about any fingerboard radius, and is way easier to setup too with tools everyone should have, unlike the floyd's which need a special tool that is on the annoying and time consuming side to use.
Now the Gohtoh version of a regular Floyd (not an FRX) is the best bang for your buck, because it too is really well built and even a lot smoother on your palm having more rounded off saddles. Too bad they don't make 7 and 8 string versions, at least not yet. Schaller who makes the Floyd rose originals has their own version of the original Floyd's; The Lockmeister which is built even better than the Floyd's, but also more expensive, and the best you can get.
I'm a Kahler guy all the way. The cam system is just butter. Whereas the knife-edge Floyd style always just feels wrong to me.
My favorite guitar is an '84 Gibson Explorer with the stop-tailpiece Kahler installed at the factory. Gibson also built some Les Pauls with the Kahler, and for a year or two in the early 80s some of the bridges were actually stamped "Gibson."
People that hate Kahlers typically just haven't had them set up properly. Kahler themselves have a couple videos on CZcams with Gary K himself showing how it's done. It's actually pretty straightforward once somebody shows you how, way easier - and more versatile - than tweaking a Floyd.
I will say, the behind-the-nut stringlock that guitars with Kahlers typically use is kind of a pain. It locks just fine, and I like that it has a set screw for each string instead of three clamps, but if your nut isn't slotted correctly, you can still have issues with the strings binding after hard bends or trem-bar use. That's another factor I think a lot of people incorrectly blame on the Kahler bridge itself... they THINK the bridge is going out of tune, but what's probably really happening is the nut isn't cut right for the strings they're using and that's where the tuning problems come from.
My understanding is that Kahler originally used a locking nut just like the Floyds, but they got sued over it. You can sometimes find those Kahler-marked Floyd-style locking nuts on the used market, and they're on guitars that have the Kahler Spyder, which is essentially a Floyd, knife-edge style bridge.
@@dogslobbergardens6606 I have been building and repairing guitars for over 40 years, and although I agree for the most part, the nut has nothing to do with the kahler string lock behind the nut not being as good as an actual locking nut, which you can install to use with a kahler. The old Kahlers do have 3 clamps not individual screws, but they are lever clamps, not screw clamps, and don't hold as well, and being behind the nut, and needing space, they reduce the string break angle at the nut, which can reduce sustain if too much, but that depends on the headstock angle too.
What exactly would you change on how to cut the nut? It's cut to purpose, accept for that at the factory, most do not have the string slots cut deep enough to make up for wear, which isn't good for intonation and playability, and why I strongly recommend a brass (360 series the tough stuff, not soft so called "Musical" bell brass used in horns) or stainless steel for nuts, which I make all the time for guitars with bridges without fine tuners. They will last longer than most people have their guitar, or live!
Sorry, but it's also false that most people don't like them because theirs isn't setup properly, which is easy to do, and any bridge can be setup bad, but because of the way the ball end and the windings that secure them to the string can stretch. Some people use solder to reinforce them, but I think it's ridiculous, and really a non issue. On modern strings (after 1984) the windings there are much tighter and stronger, and the real problem is the angle they come off at from the fine tuners. That can easily be fixed by pre-kinking the string end a bit, to take out any slack that can come out when going whammy happy. If you do that, the tiny bit more string compared to none at all on a Floyd Rose isn't going to make a difference at all and it's just more non scientific guitar snob bullshit, because they have no clue how to stretch strings to stabilize tuning in the first place, a Floyd rose can't fix that either! Sometimes I think it's like other guitar mythology, where some numpty started it, and a bunch of other numpties just believed it, and called it fact, including a bunch who never had a Kahler, or even a Floyd rose for that matter! It's only Bigsbies, Fenders especially jazz masters and jaguars, and really any whammy system that has more than an inch or two of excess string beyond the scale length that are more prone to tuning issues, and even there, less windings on the tuners with the windings tight up against each other, or locking tuners, and pre-stretching the strings helps a lot. Whatever happened to tuning by ear, and on the fly? It's all exaggerated nonsense.
BTW: I know Garry Kahler personally, and have made suggestions for improvement he took to heart: The fine tune levers that hold the string ball end would eventually break with the low strings of heavy gauges, like the .013 to .058. sets I used, and he started using a stronger alloy, and just in time for 7 and 8 string guitars to become fashionable too. I machined new ones for my own guitar out of Stainless steel myself, and told him about it. I also left more meat near where they are held by a metal rod (the pivot) as there was plenty of room for it.
@@Bob-of-Zoid You've apparently misread what I said. Any conventional nut should be cut so that the string just barely slides through it without binding. You don't want it real sloppy but if any slot is too narrow the string will bind and cause tuning problems, I know you know that, it's guitar set-up 101.
*The string-lock itself is fine* as I said. But if the NUT itself isn't right for the set of strings, the NUT will cause problems. And sometimes people blame the lock or the bridge when a simple dressing of the nut would fix their problem.
I agree, the three-clamp canted locking nuts aren't great, that's why I said I like the six set screws on the Kahler behind-the-nut lock.
I'll come back and look over your other comments as well. That's a lot to go through :)
@@dogslobbergardens6606 I didn't misread anything, but you made it sound like either most nuts are not cut right, or that adding a Kahler string lock requires the nut to be changed, which just isn't true. It also doesn't require string gauge changes either, so you just can't make that "The reason" without some evidence it's even true. Sure, I get DIY, and even a few "Professionally" cut ones that are botched I have to remedy at my shop, but most factory ones are good unless worn badly. So why not just say it's not the String locks fault, but any number of things, including user error?
Actual Locking nuts are still technically better, because they replace the nut altogether, eliminating potential problems, and It also looks better not having a string tree that may require ditching or changing a truss rod cover, or obfuscating a logo... And Kahler only made them because Floyed Rose is sue happy! Did you know his first iterations had no fine tuners, but did have the locking nut making it pretty much useless without a few hours of tweaking before in tune right! And so a German company "Rockler" redesigned it to have fine tuners, and even changed the rest of it slightly, so way more than the legally required 10% change needed to not violate patent, and yet still lost the suit to Floyd? Yep, and that's when Rose took their design, in exchange for not making them pay the huge amount they had lost, and they took the deal instead of appealing the courts fallacious decision because they were like two guy's just getting started, and didn't have the funds... It's also when he started the "Licensing" thing and sued anyone and everyone he could, because it was lucrative! Well, his sole patent rights have meanwhile expired, and it's how others (Schaller, Gotoh) don't need the license anymore, and may just be why he has some new and different designs now; Business as usual.
Rockler went on to make other improvements to guitar tech, and got big into customizing instruments for anyone wanting it... and not sure, but may still be around, possibly with a name change.
I still prefer to use a Locking nut with a Kahler bridge though,because it replaces the nut altogether with one that will not wear hardly at all, and doesn't go in a bad spot and either mess with truss rod access and covers, or cover a logo... and it just looks better. I'd also rather not even deal with the rhetoric, and save my customers from it too if they agree.
@@Bob-of-Zoid good grief. You sure go a LONG way to blow simple statements out of proportion and argue about basically nothing.
I DID say the stringlock itself is fine. Twice. And that most complaints about the Kahler are just the owner not knowing how to use/set them up.
I've already been agreeing with all your basic points, for pete's sake. Relax.
I had asked my go-to luthier about these a week ago funny enough and what he thought since he's installed a few. He didn't have a single bad thing to say about them other than they don't feel like a traditional Floyd (he said they're softer like a Kahler), which isn't really a bad thing to me.
I am probably going to pull the trigger and get one for my Gibson SG since I've been itching for another locking trem system for a long time, but didn't want to gut any of my current guitars. It's amazing how limited the selection is when it comes to reliable locking trems after you take out super strats and guitars catered more to the hard rock or metal audience. I don't have anything against those guitars, but it's just not my style anymore, so I thought this was an amazing (almost game-changing) little device!
As someone else suggested I would also consider the Les Trem
@@nazmoking3171 Thanks I'll look into that as well!
I did like this though, but I've always been put off by how big it looks.
I'd love to see something more like the Duesenberg Les trem, but offering more range and stability.
You should check the Stetsbar system ( s) they won't require any modifications to your guitar regardless of the model...
You can totally divebomb it ( them ) and tuning stability is great as is...And even better if you add locking tuners...
I have a pretty heavily modded Les Paul Studio that I want to put one of these on. To me it seems like it would have immense amounts of musical and instrument maintenance utility. The aged finishes they make for them look very cool.