Why do Asian kids outperform Western kids in math? | by Malcolm Gladwell
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- čas přidán 30. 07. 2021
- Malcolm Gladwell in his book "The Outliers" states that the reason Asian kids consistently outperform western kids in international math tests is because of the cultural attitude these kids have towards solving a math problem, or any task that requires patience and effort for a long period of time.
In China and other Asian cultures, there is a logical pattern to learning math based on a confidence and expectation that if we apply enough effort the problem is solvable while in the West, kids believe their ability is innate and can't be changed or influenced.
Malcolm's theory is that the reason for this difference in attitude has to do with the historical agriculture practices in both cultures, where the rice growing Asian culture had a different lifestyle for thousands of years that required consistent hard work which translates in the today's attitude of their kids when trying to solve a math problem.
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Students who believe that success depends on innate ability do poorly compared to those who believe that success depends on effort.
Hard work can get you far but not that far. You can't dismiss talent. Innate abilities play crucial role especially higher you go in a professional field.
Most Asian moms take care of their body very well when they are pregnant, this also contribute highly to producing a high-quality human.
I was mocked and made fun of while I was pregnant and refused to intake processed sugar, and caffeine, and avoid activities that can harm my body and the baby inside of me. It's all about how much you want it and ready to sacrifice so what you want.
@@asspiringarchitect7552 true, but most people without a learning disability, if they put in enough effort, should be able to do well. (at least in elementary-high school math)
@@hi-fc6ww Sure they can. I am not dismissing hard work and it's results but people give it too much credit. We often underestimate such things as luck and hereditary traits.
Students who believe they will get beat when they don't get an A will surprisingly get A's! 🤣 That's why every Asian household has that long bamboo feather duster in the middle of the livingroom! When have you ever seen an Asian mom actually "dust?!" 🤨 (S. Koreans excluded bc they have cleaning OCD. LOL)
Now. As a 65 yo black male, retired. I remember in high school I put in as much effort in Math. Science and music. As my friends put in on the Bball court. As friends would tease me and say you can't dunk. I used to say. I can solve and graph any function. So at 61, sold my Interest in an engineering firm and now I'm designing guitar pickups. My race, nah. My effort yah!
If black people spend as much effort on academic as on sports, they would have been way more successful.
You beat me by 1 year. I will wrap it up in august and start doing golf and gardening in comfort. Like you, i believe it all by my personal effort.
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Exactly. See my post.
If only your work ethic and intelligence was evenly distributed among your race, but you know it isn't. I'm glad we provided you with a culture you could thrive in, though. You are welcome.
grades according to Asian parents:
A - average
B - below average
C - can't get dinner
D - don't come home
F - find a new family
Like Cosby said, "That is why they are called Asians".
Actually, B is an Asian Failure.
In the 70s and 80s, 90 was the minimal mark for me or else I would be murdered by my mum. True story. I averaged 92 . That's why I'm alive.😁
I went to school in Indonesia until grade 4. When I went to a western-style international school in grade 5, I was suddenly considered a "gifted" math student and was always placed in the honors class until grade 12. Maybe it is the overall cultural attitude, but that also impacts the education system. Schools in many Asian countries just go through math curriculum faster, from grade 1. What is considered an "honors class" in the US is just the regular curriculum in many Asian countries.
And yes, Indonesia is a rice-growing country. But I think our culture is a lot less workaholic than East Asian countries like Korea, Japan, and China.
Your experience in Indonesia is interesting. My experience learning math as a kid in Malaysia is well described in this two-minute video: czcams.com/video/ORtDImWveU0/video.html
indonesian school? are you kidding me?????? they are at the lower bottom chart in PISA rank!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Same experience for me. I was considered just average or could even be below average student in class in my country. When I went abroad to study in Australia all of a sudden I was at the top of the class 🤷♂️
Karma Never Sleep.
Western world and middle east and surrounding are eternal criminals.
Including drawing Indonesia world's largest archipelago world's richest natural resources too small since Mercator projection 1569 in reality Indonesia has 3 timezones.
Overpriced small land and very poor soil and very bad weather.
No thanks, western world and middle east and surrounding are just my past, far away behind.
As I state, those not a complete multiracial not multilingual never been living around the world since child are the same dumb never evolved apes stuck inside your tiny boxes your entire life.
@@sonofyoutube6248 Indonesia is a big country and has many culture. Many schools in Indonesian cities are better than many average schools in America.
Fun video but the historical link to rice farming is only a small factor in performance differences. My son was one of very few non asians in his public HS class - the common characteristics of these families: 1) at least one parent was attached to their child and supervised STEM homework actively from grade 6 onward; 2) the families did not buy into currently trendy intersectional ideas of disadvantage; 3) the families instilled a work ethic almost to a fault because immigrant parents sacrifice so much get to NA and to put their kids in a position to succeed
You are seeing the cause in the brightest light...
Yes, there parents put down their ego and their needs to give their children the best they could muster and they made sure children take advantage of it...or else.
@@nokia5359that's correct. Rice farming has nothing to do with why Asians are good at math. If you're from the culture looking out and observing, or you're not from the culture looking in and making these observations, those are some of the differences. Asians model work ethic to their kids, it's a way of life. For immigrants, more so. Education is emphasized in the household. Being good at math has more to do with iq than anything else.
I taught for over 30 years at a high school and then at a college. By far the best predictor of success in all areas of life is the students peer group. Nobody in the high achieving peer group wants to be the low scoring student. Nobody in the low acheiving peer group cares how they scored, so long as they pass. In certain female peer groups consider not using protection or birth control and getting pregnant to be stupid, while in other female peer groups becoming a single mother is almost a rite of passage. Family and teachers certainly can be an influence, but the standards of the peer group has by far the most profound effect.
The parental example of having a strong work ethic and parental involvement in their kids’ education is another factor.
My father was an aeronautical engineer. About the time i was in middle school the aviation industry got very competitive so my Dad decided to go back to school so he could move into sales. He said the last people who get laid off were the ones who drum up new business, I was very hard to make excuses when Dad was spending hours a night doing homework too. In addition we always got drilled at home on math, geography and science.
Not these days. Chinese kids are spoiled. Back in the old days, yes. We were forced to study. No tuition.
I sincerely felt that "i didn't have what it takes" when taking math (calc) but i didn't apply myself. I gave up before I even tried.
I am an East Asian. Singaporean. I sucked at Math so Bad that you wouldn't believe. But as I grew older , I am much better at " Math " because I somehow got myself into the remittance industry and FX and exchange rates is a very important factor in my industry. And I am making a fair bit of money. I forced myself to be good at math because the income is just too sweet.
I'm American and 72. Back when I was in 6th grade I had a great math teacher. His way to inspire us was to find our interests and dreams and teach us how math is used in those activities. Even those not destined for college were shown how math would be useful to them. I never saw another teacher like him. Everyone needs motivation.
One issue behind the lower scores in the US is the difference in emphasis. Primary school students in the US spend a lot of time learning to manipulate fractions eg. Divide five and three fourths by two and two thirds. Or adding fractions with mixed denominators. (also issues with constantly changing educational fads: common core curriculum, etc.) The metric-based world bypasses these fraction skills which hardly appear in the TIMSS tests. The US test results would improve if we matched the international math curriculum more closely.
Excellent animation. Congrats!
I came here as a refugee from Vietnam and almost every friend I had in high school was a refugee from Asia. What I noticed is that the friends that sucked at reading comprehension and writing tend to work hard at math. The ones that sucked at everything went for sociology, communications or liberal arts degrees. I was in the same honors math courses, and except for my best friend (who was exceptionally gifted, so an outlier) no Asian I knew was exceptionally bright at math (i.e., they needed to do the homework--often spending a lot more time than prudent).
I’m from the Philippines, I’m not that good in Math, hence I have a major in Science, but my niece passed her 4 semesters of calculus, and I’m so proud of her, she’s taking BS chemistry and hopefully she can graduate! You are so right it’s the attitude and the effort she puts into it.❤
Effort vs Ability.
Achievement vs. Self-Esteem.
Value to others vs. Self-Worth.
What you do vs. Who you are.
There is a bizzare situation in schools where those who do well in Maths and science get labelled as "geeks" , are looked down , social outcasts ....hence much lesser effort to be in that category...btw India is also in Asia , not sure why no data was shared around India
Repetition, repetition, repetition. Places like Kumon really help. Practicing over, and over again until its engrained in your head.
LOL, Indonesia's best extra college after school "KUMON"
Repetition is the worst way to learn math. It is quite detrimental to the effort.
@@UnconventionalReasoning : No it works well for them They get tutoring, and practice until they perfect it, then take those ACT, SAT, et c. They take mock tests over, and over. When they reached the highest score possible, they then take the test. I have been to these Korean programs. These kids study all summer. If they are starting 10 grade, by September they have covered all the important topics. Parents invest the time, and money in these programs. Nigerians do a similar thing.
@@patriciawarmoth661 That is learning how to do well on a test, which is very different from learning mathematics. They learn how to answer questions they've already seen the answers to. The real skill is to find answers to new and unsolved questions.
Ok so... I am an Asian and I am an immigrant in America, now an American who is raising American born kids and yes 🤣when I see their maths.... I always hated maths but here's it's easy as hell.... I make fun of my girl 🤣which I shouldn't but I tell her learn the tricks we used to do in 90 s in Asia
The tricks were good for arithmetic, but that is barely math. Have her learn *Algebra*, that is much more important.
You know… his take on this seems very plausible to me; and what I especially like about it is that it places the responsibility for performance exactly where it aught to be: the student. It’s a matter of attitude and effort: work ethic.
Yes, a 12 year old should be exactly where the responsibility lies.
You might also want to consider that from elementary school, the Asian kids spend hours every day diligently doing their homework. They also take extra lessons at cram schools in the evenings, after dinner. Yes, this is greater effort, but it applies to other studies too besides math. They also tend to study in a way that helps them pass tests. This involves hours and years of studying the tests and practice in taking them. Math is a systematic intellectual subject, and studying it successfully is also a disciplined and systematic exercise.
Good point. People seem to have no problem with hours and hours of practice in sports to achieve skill or improve it, not so much academics.
It's heartening to know that successful cultural traits can be emulated.
Can be, yes. But it takes a certain level of intelligence to even want to imitate intelligence, so the lower end of the spectrum won't even see intelligence as something even worth emulating. Some things are actually innate.
What I have noticed is that, Asian schools tend to be very competitive when it comes to academics. Even the students have a mindset of competitiveness so that even their slightest mistake in solving math problems make them think of themselves as failure or dishonor to their clan (Of course, not all Asian students are this way, but many are.). That is because whoever would score the lowest in a math test inside the classroom, that poor student would be left behind, and that is a shame. However I have noticed in the West that many young people (Again, I'm not saying all though) have a mindset of "who needs these math formulas in real life anyway?" so that they easily become frustrated and will no longer like to sit through the math problem they ought to solve.
Just an observation though, I might be having a wrong conclusion.
I noticed too. My experience learning math as a kid in Malaysia is well described in this two-minute video: czcams.com/video/ORtDImWveU0/video.html
I notice in Asia they have a test culture. I never lived in Asia But I lived in a country where if you are to go to college you have to take an hard exam. What weaken this culture in the US is grades is a important factor. Of course I am againist Chinese style education and destroys creativity. But test culture helps. I think the main reason is the atitude toward education in the US. I have experience this, many teacher but a glass ceiling on top of many bright student only because he is lightly autistic or they do like him/her. The education system in the US is horrible and I think is better to home School. Even State government offers online class for free in the US, k-12.
Karma Never Sleep.
Western world and middle east and surrounding are eternal criminals.
Including drawing Indonesia world's largest archipelago world's richest natural resources too small since Mercator projection 1569 in reality Indonesia has 3 timezones.
Overpriced small land and very poor soil and very bad weather.
No thanks, western world and middle east and surrounding are just my past, far away behind.
As I state, those not a complete multiracial not multilingual never been living around the world since child are the same dumb never evolved apes stuck inside your tiny boxes your entire life.
No only in East Asia, try in High school in America that majority East Asian😅 you can't find in university because bamboo ceiling isn't allowed east Asian too much enter
@@malakatan3235 Colleges take disproportionately fewer Asian males because they are boring. They are cookie-cutter, and tend to contribute to the campus less than other demographics. This is a consequence of their parents' culture from Asia and the fixation with grades instead of actual learning and growth.
I have a genetic condition called NF1. Part of what it does to me is give me a visual spacial disability. When I got to college and was struggling with math, I went to a dorm mate from Taiwan for help. She would show me how to work a particular type of problem, then have me work one problem at a time. She would check it. If it were correct, we would move on. If it was incorrect, she would tell me so, but not tell me where my mistake was, just erase it and tell me to do it again. I finally found success in my, but please don’t ask me to read a map.
And what will happen if someone asked you to read a map?
I think it is that most Asian parents give a lot more importance in education for their children and push them to succeed academically that makes a lot of difference.
It makes a lot of difference in creating math-robots.
@@UnconventionalReasoning haha yeah right....🙄
@@johnjaro I missed the part where you're an expert on all things Asian students in academia.
very interesting content!!
Intellectual endurance. The ability to study and retain information is something that is built over time. It is developed and ingrained in Asian children, but not as much on the Western side. It's not all about effort at that particular time because the data has to be retained. If you've never studied 60 hours in a week, the first time you do it you will retain very little information. But if you've been doing it for years, then you retain much more data.
It's our society changing. Our decline as a great nation in so very many respects. Our entire population is being softened and our childrens' mind set is being softened.
I am Indonesian which is South East Asia btw. Yes, our grandparents woke up at 4am and went to rice field at 5am since sun rise around 5am then work until 12 noon. Stop from 12 to 2pm because sun is to hot, they usually have lunch and a nap. Woke up at 2pm and work until 6pm since the sun set at 6pm and to dark to work after 6pm. Me and my parents are not farmer but we do wake up at 4am since we need to do pray at 4.30am (we are muslim) and go for school or work at 6am (School in Indonesia start at 6.30am and finish at 4pm). The office worker finish their work at 5pm or 6pm than go home to rest and ready for 4am routine 😊
So basically they were slaves.
you nailed it..
Malcolm has the ability to crack and break down perplexing issues.
Most parents push their kids especially in todays environment yet certain people always rise to the top. It's not just cultural. Also how does a people come up with its culture? Why asians/jews advocate for being a doctor/lawyer/teacher, but other groups advocated for being rappers,dancers,athletes?
It’s culture, Nigerians push education in their culture. Happen to be the most educated group in America.
@@jayquandean7754 Facts. Race and genetics has nothing to do with it
I need citations for the half day labor and vacations.
I laughed so hard at 3:05 and it's hard to disagree with it. It's the attitude how to approach problems and that attitude can actually developed -- it's the culture.
Yes, it's the attitude to approach problems: "If I've already done it, I can do it again." It fails at the creativity of problem solving.
Math is about reps done daily built on a solid foundation of the basics. Also most humans can’t see it unless it’s explained. Most math is about discipline pre calculus. It’s basic foundational stuff.
Math is *NOT* about reps done daily, that is one of the myths. Arithmetic for a year in elementary school might be that. Math is about seeing the structure of a problem, deconstructing it, solving the sub-components, and synthesizing the complete answer. Very little "reps" are needed, since this is a consistent process throughout the math education track. Learn it once, keep using it for more and more complex situations.
Particularly for East Asia, it may also be because their languages are more intuitive which makes learning maths and other sciences easier.At least in Chinese and Japanese, the way they say the numbers and express mathematical operations is faster than in European languages.Of course cultural aspects are important too, and there is a lot to it, not just rice farming but as a lazy white guy I won't write a longer comment explaining all those cultural differences.
Also it is cultural to work harder, and study harder. When your culture puts the greatest emphasis on education, they will do better overall. Americans will fall even further behind because of "Critical race theory" Teaching kids that men can have babies instead of math, and "wokeness " is not helping
and the breakdown of the family unit, it helps to have two perants, you can say what you want but having both helps as a support structure, and that can give confidence to keep at it, learn to temper anger, and bring other prospectives if the mom cant do it maybe dad, boyfriend, or uncle can help, and let kids learn what to look for when they grow up it has a factor it does, most of all how to love its ment to be shared shown and given away, and at its heart make one work harder so they can be strong enough at something to master it so they can afford to be gentle, and have enough strength to keep control of that power, though this is less about math and more about philosophy, but there seems to be a lack of hard work from many anymore, or if they can they just wont.
People will find any reason to get political lol. Asian countries have always out performed western countries, even before the 2000s.
Your education failed you.
0:15. Exactly. They work harder, and place a huge emphasis on education. You can not blame them if excellence is part of their culture.
@@patriciawarmoth661 I blame them if excellence on a test, rather than excellence in life, is what their culture has ingrained in them [pun intended].
Asian cultural traditions value hard work and discipline which are both extremely beneficial when learning mathematics. Math no mater what level is really very simple, which the following. Follow the rules the same way every time and the answer produced will be the same every time.
It's not Asian in the first place. It's only East Asian
Its because their parents are stricter and they encourage their children to do well...🙂🇬🇧
Because they are in an authoritarian culture, the children listen. This allows the authoritarian culture to persist. The Western culture values freedom more.
While some of what you say may be right, let me mention a couple of reasons why a north European farmer worked shorter hours - 1000 vs 3000 hours per year. (1) The growing season was shorter; (2) Daylight hours is shorter.
Well, it is not attitude. It is what pressure you have if you don't keep up with the grade. I have experience with both systems. I studied primary and high school in Asia, and one year of high school in Canada and all the way to PhD in computer science in Canada. It is not the attitude. I did not study hard in Asia, especially in math. But no matter what, they would keep feeding you the materials for years. You just got used to the materials.
In Canada, it is different. They don't force you to do math. And you progress according to your own speed. So, in general, high school kids here don't do well in math. Also, the syllabus is very different. Here, until Grade 10, perhaps even Grade 11, school is more like daycare than anything else. I was very lucky in Asia because our math teacher was passionate about math. So she taught us way more materials than the common exam required (GCE O Level). Otherwise, I was fed what would be in the exams. In some school, ONLY exam materials would be taught. So, yeah, if you test them on those materials, they would do very well.
Then, why is it that there are still many math professors educated in North America, if it is so bad? Well, once you are in third year university, suddenly, the advantage you get in high school is not longer there. At that point, you need aptitude in math to do well. Students majoring in math in university are students who actually like math. They are not forced to take math as their major. They want to take math as their major. And people who only know how to do math, without knowing why they do math will fall behind. And wherever you are educated, if you have the aptitude, and you are passionate about math, you will do well majoring in math.
Now, I am not saying which system is better. Both are bad, and both are good. It depends which one is good for you. The Canadian system is much better for me because I don't like to study textbooks. I like to explore on my own. If I had stayed in Asia, I would not have gotten into a graduate school, let alone getting a PhD. But here, because I already had research ability when I was in undergraduate, graduate school was a breeze for me.
So, no, it is not attitude. At least not for me.
Many Asian people I know usually grow up with 2 parents in the household.
Growing up with 2 parents doesn't guarantee that the child will excel at math.
Great points on Attitude. No arguing there. But some context is needed on these "math scores"...
Eastern cultures value memorization and conformance. They may do "well" on "Math tests" but when it comes to applied mathematics, innovation, and problem solving where it can't be memorized -- they do horrible. China took 5 years of their top engineers to finally engineer the ball point pen.... in 2017.
That's a China problem. Try bringing Japan and South Korea into consideration. I don't think many people would say that the Japanese do horrible in innovation and problem solving. But they value memorization at school too.
@@2608alice It's the same in most Asian countries. The Japanese benefited a lot from Western innovation over the past century. They copied first.
When I was in high school, I had a math teacher who gave us 100 problems a night for homework, and we reviewed them the next day. I was really good at math that year.
Its is nice to see a ealistic discussion on cultural differences and what drives them that did not devolve into cries of racism of some sort.
I've had friends who memorised the multiplication table since they were 5 before they go to sleep. Then their mum would come in and test them on it as soon as they wake up in the morning. And another whose dad had been teaching them numbers and they were toddlers. No kidding. I would hear a toddler counting the stairs as she walks with her dad up to the 6th floor of their home. A year or 2 later, it had become multiplication table. It's crazy. I'm Asian but I hate math. Thinking I have no ability to solve the problem. 😂
@3:38, westerners is spelt incorrectly as 'westernerrs'. I infer that attitude also applies to grammar, and this video was done by a westerner; just saying. I enjoy Malcolm and have been a fan for many years.
in asia they also have higher pressure to learn so they can get into a good school. and in several places like india that have free collage so they turn out more people in certain areas just by consequense of the large population, that said patiance is a virtue, and some have forgotten the value of hard work, its nice to make money fast from the latest fad and some do for a time, but there are thousands of streamers and so called influancers you have to compeat against, and often times it dont necessarly bring real value to the world save for knowlege if they are a trade based channel like cars or machining where something can be learned and eventually used, real wealth is from goods producing jobs not service, that was true when we were outsourcing hand over fist and today almost 20 years after I heard that in eccon class, and there is a real gap in the skilled and semi skilled trades and that was talked about even when I was in highschool, lucky they brought back some of it and started industrial learning in the local highschool beside building trades or going to the 4 area vocational in the after noons, and teach how to make stuff, or how to run the stuff to make stuff, as not everyone can be a youtube or tiktok star and not everyone can be white collar workers when someone has to go and take the plans to produce the stuff to get to consumers.
Part of the deficit in the US is that tests are a race (time) and the fundamentals and basics are not emphasized enough. There is too much reliance of wrote memorization and shortcuts or tricks and teaching to the test.
Here was how I went to school growing up: woke up at 6am, made breakfast, biked 45min to school. School started at 7am, studied till 12pm, 1h lunch break, continued to study until 5pm. 1h dinner, biked 1h to tutor, studied until 9pm, biked home, finished homework of the day, showered, went to bed. Weekends were dedicated to tutors and extra-curriculum (e.g: more tutors.😂) We studied 5-7 subjects a day, almost the same schedule everyday, and all homework must be submitted before classes start the next day, everyday.
That’s how I got into a university in a country that I don’t even speak much of it’s language 😅
And now look at you...void of any real personality 😂😂😂
@@LibraYall As long as I make a good living and can afford the lifestyle I want, “personality” isn’t that important. Priorities 🤗
@Misskhavle You just can't buy a personality you need to go see the Wizard of Oz and ask for a heart that beats 😂😂
@@LibraYall personality can’t fill up my stomach, or my son’s 🤭🤭🤭
And if I starved, I am dead.
Then there will be no personality necessary.
End of story 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@Misskhavle Survival is what it sounds like no different from anyone else but then on top of that you have no personality 😂😂
I wonder how much math being universal plays into it? Excelling at math can open employment doors (in the West) even if one lacks language skills. Unlike say, being an attorney (where laws and systems would differ country to country).
Hard times make strong men,strong men makes Happy times, Happy times make weak men, Weak men make Hard times and its a cyclical chain that repeats.. In western Countries with good govts and high standard of living leads to easy choices(alteranative) choices & easily give up for difficult subjects(STEM) and in contrast in eastern countries the lower stardard of living, competition, fewer career options for better life and easy(inefficient ) governments make them choose tougher choices and and put effort & persist, pursue Hard subjects @STEM and succeed..
This inference for this difference in attitude shud be seen from multiple perspectives social, economical, cultural, biological... not to one parameter of agriculture-rice growing..
I think it's all driven by what a country values. Countries like the US want to push kids to have extracurricular interests like sports, music, art, drama, etc. This is great if you want more well-rounded kids but not so wonderful if you want them to perform highly in math. This diversity of interest is less prized in Asian culture, and therefore, they can put more emphasis on math. If a country's economic growth is driven by graduates with STEM degrees, then that's where it's going to put its emphasis. The US has always had the allure to import that talent from other countries so there is not a strong desire to produce their own. Moreover, in recent years the emphasis on STEM education decreased even more since the US education system, overly worried about kid's feeling bad if they are behind, are doing things like "dumbing" down math and science, getting rid of homework, or getting rid of algebra in 8th grade. What it boils down to is expectations. I think the reason US kids aren't doing so good in math is simply because the nation doesn't expect them to be.
Bingo. Exactly. 🎯 This is a good comment.
0:58 I suppose the downside of the Asian ethos is that it cajoles them into pursuing what is good for their parents / society, rather than what is good for them as individuals, and perhaps this ends up holding back the true geniuses in Asian cultures from achieving all that they could if they instead pursued what they were naturally drawn to.
I am a asian and yeah I love math🙂 but I don't study that much
It’s really just the way you approach
If we're talking about outside the US, as in, the students being physically in those Asian countries (and not living in Western countries), then it's due to a faster curriculum where an alarming percentage of kids fall behind due to the pace, not the level, but the school teachers could care less, so the parents end up buying extra hours of class after school at cram schools, resulting in a ludicrous amount of problems that need to be solved in a day. Those who practice it more outside of school do better than those who only do the homework given by the teachers. Now, if the teachers taught slower and thorough-er, more kids would have succeeded in Math in school itself, without having to solve extra problems on a daily basis. But as it is, lots of kids from Asian countries think they suck at Math because they don't succeed in the classroom and have to do extra hours of Math during night-time. My hypothesis is that Asian kids have gone through a faster curriculum, so it appears as if they are better at it but in reality, they're simply kids who are just ahead... and probably also taken from upper percentages. Also, as an end note, it is worth noting that cram schools teach you the types of questions that would be on standardized testing-- specific types, and have you practice them in bulk. So it's a type of cheating and if you took those kids who got higher grades, it would be questionable as to whether they also had good Math reasoning, as a good percentage of the grade comes from test-specific practice that is done in bulk.
They grow rice in Thailand, Burma, Indonesia, Philippines and Malaysia too…
If Asian kids towards math is hard work instead of ability and according to this video, is the right attitude, by corollary, those who do very poorly at math has the wrong attitude. Can we likewise say that Asian income in the United States relative to other minorities is reflective of attitude as well. With Asian income substantially higher than any other race in the U.S. including whites, can we say then that racial differences in income is more reflective of attitude than the impact of discrimination?
It’s definitely the attitude of peoples. Look at the kids here and what do they say? I’m not good at math. Words and beliefs are powerful.
I taught in (Japan, Indonesia, Spain, USA). USA: schools like San Diego High, and GREAT schools like UCBerkeley.
Too many American kids are too worried about how they look to their friends. The BAD students. And includes such as math teachers. And seeing how far you can .
Result? Bad American students REFUSE to cooperate in their math class, some of them even intentionally disrupt so nobody else can learn either.
Meanwhile, in Indonesia and Japan that problem doesnt exist.
=> It's a question of effort..
=> American kids KNOW they are gonna get a High School Diploma EVEN IF they are INNUMERATE. So why make any effort doing something (math) you dont wanna do?
It's not about (IQ, poverty, money). It's ATTITUDE.
=> of course there are plenty of GOOD students in USA too, who have GOOD attitudes. and majority of students somewhere in between trying to make as little effort as possible.
=> most American kids could learn the WHOLE High School Math Curriculum in under 6 months if they WANTED to. But they dont WANT to. Same curriculum that is SUPPOSED to take 3/4 years, and MAJORITY never learn ANYWAY, but STILL graduate High School.
=> In USA it's not hard to graduate from COLLEGE (in Liberal Arts) while STILL innumerate!
It's quite simple: we are disciplined. Euro countries are better than America too. Estonia is a high ranking math country that can even compete with Asian countries. American parents have totally failed on many fronts, especially math. They're way too soft.
You succumb to authoritarianism. Russia is looking at you again...
Why all the spelling mistakes in a presentation about academic achievement?
Difficult part of highschool math is memorizing math formulas & equations & open notes is not allowed because it's considered as cheat sheet
I'm chinese filipino and went to a chinese school until grade 6. The way we study math is entirely different, I only realized when I transferred to a more western school for highschool/college (what would be grade 7 in the west), the chinese number system is amazing because it RHYMES, I swear we spent days memorizing multiplication tables but it became easy because the numbers would rhyme. To this day, people think I can do math in my head really fast but it just IS FAST because I use math in CHINESE. I have already forgotten everything I learned from the chinese school about the language except a few words, but the math really stuck with me and I use it to this day. I am not even one of the better students, in an asian school I would be way below average. But Heck, I kid you not, that in grades 3 or so we were already studying areas of triangles and circles, when I got back to that same subject in the more western college I almost laughed because this stuff was what we struggled over when we were tiny kids in my chinese school. I still hate math tho, cosigns and trig can go to hell! I ended up a lawyer.
I only like geometry, Algebra was no fun but calculus was like torture, All that repetition, But even advanced geometry is good because I can use it in my art.
The whole point is validated by the fact that when you get to maths research. Professional mathematicians, i.e. the people who never gave up on effort, are not over represented by one ethnic background. Where ever you are, you find hardworking mathematicians.
Just read the comments (most) and my conclusion?
You are all right!
I am an Asian American. I have never lived, nor ever went to school in Asia. So I can't compare Eastern and Western countries and their attitude to math.
I will say that I was one of the best math students in my class. I studied up to PreCalculus and mostly got As. Scored 600 out of 800 on the SATs in math. It was a subject that I found fun and I did well at effortlessly. It wasn't so effortless for my White classmates.
Math wasn't even my best subject. I preferred English, and majored in English literature in college.
I definitely had the mindset that all math problems put before me were solvable. As long as the level wasn't greater than precalc. And I guess most Americans don't have that mindset.
My experience learning math as a kid in Malaysia is well described in this two-minute video: czcams.com/video/ORtDImWveU0/video.html
Math in American & western high schools is ridiculously easy. When I see their curriculum I was like, is that it? And many students cant even get a B. All u need is to put 10% of effort that Asian students in Asian countries put and u are guaranteed at least a B. If u give 20% of effort A is a guarantee. And I might be wrong but I believe you can choose how many subjects you want to take for the SAT or if you don't want to go to the top universities SAT is not required and you can still graduate high school. I've heard students get to top universities by taking only 2 subjects for the SAT. In Malaysia where I came from, u can't graduate unless u take the SPM (SAT equivalence). U are required to take 9-10 subjects depending on if you are a science or art major. Back when I was in high school, my schedule was 7am - 2pm school, 2-3 I have my lunch and rest a bit, 4-5 I do my homework, 5-7 tuition classes, 7-8 pm dinner and rest, 8-10 pm revision (My parents would force me to study and go to evening tuition classes). Even after all that hard work, I failed to get straight A's. I was devastated when the results were out. My parents were considered lenient because they allow me to rest on weekends. Many of my Chinese colleagues don't even get a rest on weekends.
@@secrets.295 Interesting. But I have never studied in another country than America, so how does that explain how well I was at math? I don't think I worked harder than my classmates. I barely put any effort into math. Could it just be genetics? Or I was just abnormal?
@@justinchan6043 You probably put some effort into it, minor effort at least. Also, Asian students tend to have better concentration during classes. Concentrating hard when the teacher is teaching in front is very important. That is something I struggled with growing up but I forced myself. Many of my friends are so laser focused, I can't believe it. Lol. I edited my previous answer just now. I add how tough it is at Malaysian schools vs US schools. Just to let u know how different it is. I hate my teenage years because all I do is study.
PS : You might have a higher iq than most other people which explains why you get pretty good scores. But one person doesn't change a statistic. The average Asian students are more hardworking than other races in America. When I studied at UCLA, every time I went to the library the majority of students there were Asians. Other races are too busy partying. Lol. When u work harder you get better results.
Gladwell points to the "Labor Intensive" part of rice growing as the explanation for why these cultures are predisposed to hard work, but then ignores the other aspect of rice growing that he initially mentions - that it is Cognitively Complex. For centuries, illiterate rice farmers have had to carve out perfectly level paddies from sloped terrain, divert and control water flow to and from each paddy, all while timing plantings and harvests for optimum yield in multiple paddies that need to be flooded or drained under the farmer's careful control. Yes, the physical labor is intensive, but these rice farmers also cultivated a high level of brain power that must also be recognized.
or may be it's even simpler... rice is good for the brain.
Practice makes perfect is always applied for stuff like sports. Why isn't it applied to education anymore?
Plus the whole "person who works hard will outperform a genius who doesn't work hard".
Practice makes dumber. And "person who works hard will outperform a genius who doesn't work hard" depends on what the performance is.
I mean, as a teaching tool, Gladwell makes sense.
As to actually why...
If you're a Chinese or Japanese kid, which is easier: Math, or memorizing 10,000 individual characters so you can read? In the West, poetry is easier than calculus for many people. In much of Asia, someone has to memorize thousands of characters before they can even begin to write basic poetry, while math is something they can start on in a day.
Math is an easier language to read than Chinese or Japanese, so it gets more attention.
That is so true.
I would argue that the rice theory doesn't fully hold water, as America was a very hard working country prior to the 60s. There is a culture of jack-of-all trades and self sufficiency, which requires a lot of hard work lest you die. Quite a few things destroyed this work ethic: the counterculture which was very lazy and hedonistic, globalization which took away a lot of jobs, welfare and incentivizing to not work, feminist and race politics which eventually became discriminatory to those not in their groups. You correctly identified that American culture is severely lacking for handling math and tackling problems. That is because America turned its back on what works.
You will find that even within US, the math scores have inverted from liberal coastal cities and midwest, from 90s till now. The liberal coastal cities used to dominate, now it's reversed. Ask yourself why. It's because of the coddling and all of the above reasons.
Globalization didn't "take away a lot of jobs", American businesses sent away a lot of jobs. The rest of your comments are similarly misguided grievances. Unfortunately, you'll have to wait over a year for Festivus 2024.
It has been observed that Asians are excelling in international memorization competitions. One key factor contributing to their success is the utilization of fast memory techniques that incorporate the pictorial method, which all memory experts use. Since East Asian languages are inherently pictorial in nature, the process of memorization comes more naturally and effortlessly to them.
Vietnamese like me believe efforts and consistency beats talent in the long run.
Yeah exactly you are talentless 😂😂😂
It's because those who grow up speaking Mandarin are expressing numerical values in base 10 from birth. So they can break values into groups of 10 and manipulate them easily compared to other languages that express numeric values in overly complex terms which are confusing to add, subtract, multiply, & divide.
"Numerical values" are the enemy of learning math.
@@UnconventionalReasoning Sure. Whatever.
@@GLPitt1 Why do you disagree? Why do you think numerical values are very important, enough to make that a key advantage for "those who grow up speaking Mandarin"?
As Mike Todd once said, "If I want to be good at math, I hire one" or something to that effect.
- BECAUSE ASIANS ARE AWESOME !!!
As an Asian 12 year old this is ez
A wise man once said: "welcome to the rice fields motherf****r!"
I'm curious if family wealth is a confounding factor. Like, for example, only compare kids from upper middle class, where survival and access to resource is not a factor.
Also would be cool to look at a country like Kazakhstan. Kazakhs are certainly very diligent and disciplined, but most of all in that country excellence matters a lot. If you are good at school, you can get a governmental grant to go study in a university abroad, otherwise you don't, so the motivation is really there. However, while Kazakhs do eat rice, to the best of my knowledge these people are historically nomads mostly doing cattle farming which according to Malcolm should be less intense work.
This is also a bad argument. Do remember in the 70s, 80s many of those Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese, immigrants were dirt poor. Poorer than Black people in America. Most of them come here with nothing. But on average all of their kids end up having a better career than any other races, White included. Access to resources does help, but if you are lazy having that extra resources is useless. Asians are just far more hardworking.
Kazakhs were forced to abandon their nomadic practices and adopt agriculture by Soviets in the late 1920s and early 1930s, and the result was the most severe genocide in the history of the Soviet Union. Yes, even more deadly than Holodomor in Ukraine.
My best educated guess would be that all those too “culturally lazy” to survive were wiped out in that genocide, while the remainder was at least hard working enough to be able to go through the immense famine caused by collectivization. Plus the sheer terror of Stalinist policies has historically also been a powerful motivator to “do better” than your peers, if only to escape the arbitrariness of the authorities and miserable life at the bottom rung of the society.
This level of social engineering isn’t easy to get rid of and becomes ingrained over time, hence I’d say the source of Kazakh attitude to study might be vastly different to East Asian countries.
@@Ufthak Just got back to your comment. Thanks for bringing this up, I had never heard about this before. I guess it is not surprising, being rised up in eastern europe.
Einstein: I thought exactly the opposite of what you said a hundred years ago
because they do not fall into the victim mythology and have an outstanding work ethic.
Your education has failed you if you think even a majority of kids "fall into the victim mythology".
This explanation is woefully simplistic and doesn't take into account differences in language which make maths a cognitively more simple task for speakers (and thinkers) of this language.. small things like this and the fact that the languages are also more logical and symbolic by nature would give small children a helping hand, early on, in getting better at maths than their western counterparts. I think confucian cultural norms might have something to do with it which may or may not have come about as a result of this difference in agriculture. I think the west is further compounding this problem with woke idelogy and the whole child centered learning approach (a complete disaster if you ask me, teenagers think the world revolves around them and why wouldn't they?)..
At 2:35 you spelled their incorrectly😂
I just retired after 26 years in American education and also spent time in schools in Taiwan, China, and Japan. Their is a cultural difference. In East Asia you compete after elementary school to get into the best schools in the city. You do not just go to the school nearest you. It is a merit based system. Parents push their kids hard to study and behave because they are your retirement program when you get old. Kids that do not work hard or behave well are soon tracked to a vocational school to learn a trade. You compete to get into the best national universities. The Asian countries do not have the time or money to waste on those who do not try hard and show ability. Yet, they do not cast you aside instead you are given a good vocational skill to provide a good living wage. I have seen Asians here in the USA who have become Americanized and do not do as well as those who are first or second generation immigrants. The Americanized Asians have lost their cultural roots and adopted the worst of our habits. We must have an Asian style system here in the USA or we are finished in academics. MA East Asian Studies Chinese, Fulbright Scholar Japan 2003, and Fulbright Scholar China 2005.
How you skipped or omitted the great China, or the Chinese are not good in math?
I grew up in the 70s and 80s. I always believed that results are the product of effort, I'm not Asian. I'm good at math.
I don't believe the farming idea. It's the modern idea that kids should feel good, and not work hard. Now only those with interest can do good, mistakes for innate ability.
Math is a skill. Like any other skill, anyone can be reasonably good at it with enough practice.
Another difference between the West and Asia is an aspect of religious tradition. Judeo -Christian judges people on their innate character, good vs evil, for example, which is pretty inflexible. Buddhism, however, prefers, " skilled or unskilled", instead. That leaves the individual with the possibility of working for improvement rather than being doomed to having a flawed character. This optimism could help students persist longer in their efforts.
It’s pretty simple imagine your local blue-ribbon American magnet schools that offer AP/IB and college courses. Now imagine countries where majority of their schools are blue-ribbon… simple concept
they just work hard
I am asian, and here's the thing, for 3 years when I was in middle school, I sucked at just bout anything, maths being one of them. The best I could ever do was barely passing, and that was because I was lazy. Until high school I decided go all out, I did, I solved at least 10 math questions everyday. By the time the semester ends I already did all the questions in the books. The results? I went from a D- student to a B+. It's not genes, it's effort. Maths is about logic and reasoning, how the brain see a pattern, and this is not an innate skills, it needs to be trained. The brain needs to be trained.
the real issue is why do some people believe equity is superior to meritocracy? punishing kids for being genetically better at math or working harder than the rest is not only dumb but the perversion of every concept of justice and fairness.
What Is ∫ x n dx
The answer= x n +1 divide by n+1 + c
I'm just amazed that someone has actually used the English flag, as opposed to the Union Flag! 😁😃
There are some important truths here, but his point about mediaeval peasants is largely nonsense: life for them was largely a constant grinding battle against simple starvation, often entailing satisfying a lord's needs before your own. And yes, I was trained as a mediaevalist and teach maths.
no. the real answer is. in every asian school. every student must go to the board and solve the problem. if you don't answer it correctly you will get embarrassed especially if your crush is watching you. so the next time you go back to the board, you want to be better.
The real answer is that, in every Asian school, every student must become a math-bot. They answer problems they have already answered. The creativity of problem solving is missing.
Thats genius, maybe it explains (and i say maybe) why Québécois have a better ranking than Canada in maths. Due to a more prounounced agricultural heritage.
Not related to genes you say? How do children of Asian decent born in the west to parents, grandparents and great grandparents born in the West?
There is the self-selectivity of Asian immigrants. They had to be above the Asian average in some, usually multiple, ways.
Why did he list every east asian country except China when listing countries who did well in international tests or comparisons like PISA test/ranks? China ranks first or 2nd every time.
Also, even when they come second or third, if you look at the other winning teams, like say USA or Australia, their whole team of 5 people(like their most recent math team where they came second or third to China) is made up exclusively of ethnic Chinese Americans).
All the ones in Singapore or elsewhere are also ethnic Chinese.. Chinese culture and parenting plays a huge part in their academic success regardless of their country they were born or have citizenship in. If they have decent schools(ie decent opportunities), they will make the most of it. Chinese know education is critical to the strength of a country/civilization. Compare with India, who today is still only at around a 70~% literacy rate. This is 2024, not 1950. India still is backwards mentally, believing in religious superstitious nonsense and still hasn't gotten over their colonial mentality.
They say that democracy(specially liberal Western democracy) is the secret sauce to innovation and progress etc, and that India is some tech or IT powerhouse. And yet there are basically zero Indian it innovations or companies like Huawei or tiktok or Alibaba or CATL or anything else that is competing with the world's best, or even leading the world and innovating any products or industries. Why is that?
It cannot even be excused and blamed on lack of opportunity or discrimination. Take IT industry, and specifically coding and AI etc. India is supposed to be a math and coding powerhouse, they are supposed to be able to program and west outsources most of their coding to India. Coding and AI etc don't require much more than a computer or even a phone. yet there is zero indian innovative IT companies like that. Zero Indian social media sites or companies. Why is that?
China is supposedly "authoritarian" and cannot innovate and can only copy. And yet Chinese companies are competing with the world's best, and even innovating like 5g standards, AI, tiktok algorithms, drone tech like DJI and associated software, etc etc.
Shouldn't India be dominating China and the world in terms of IT/AI/algorithms etc since they are more closer to being a western style liberal democracy than authoritarian China?
We see that it is all a bunch of nonsense, and the democracy vs autocracy nonsense is nothing but a false dichotomy which does not reflect the realities on the ground.
Here's a thought...they study more. People that work hard at something tend to succeed more often.
Here's a thought...they are math-bots instead of mathematicians.
I think learning the pictograms helps.
If we were animals, the east would be dogs and the west would be cats.
Cats rule.