Using A Replenished Developer To Cut Darkroom Costs
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- čas přidán 24. 08. 2024
- Darkrooms are expensive to use, so I find ways to save money while keeping my quality as high as I can. One thing I do is use a replenished film developer routine. Personally, I like Kodak Xtol, but others are out there and easy to find and use. The savings can be 50% or more from a one shot style developer. If this sounds like something you would like to do too, watch this video.
Kodak Xtol
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Best darkroom channel on CZcams. Keep it up, man!
absolutely.
The cheapest processing I've ever done was with one-shot developer.
Start with Parodinal, made from generic acetaminophen (paracetamol for those outside the USA), drain opener lye, and sodium sulfite. Yep, just those three ingredients (and optionally a little potassium bromide as a fog reducer -- I used to use 2 grams). I used to buy the acetaminophen at Costco for just over a penny per 500 mg tablet; if you shop at Sam's Club you should find similar prices (this is in the 2x500 tablet quantity, was about $11 when I was doing this regularly). At my local grocery store, half as many tablets are around $7, so that's 1.4 cents per tablet. Lye is about $6 for a one pound can. Sodium sulfite is currently about $26 for a five pound bucket, and it works out with half a liter of Parodinal concentrate costing around a buck and a half (and the concentrate will last several months, at least). This concentrate is used exactly like commercial Rodinal; it can be diluted 1:25 or 1:50 (and 1:100 for stand development, but you should probably put one roll in a two-roll tank in that case to be sure there's enough p-aminophenol to do the job).
Diluted 1:50, that half liter of concentrate becomes 25 liters of working solution (dilute as needed, not all at once, please), enough to process *100 rolls* of 35mm in those steel tanks. The developer for each roll, then, costs about *a penny and a half.* And I dare you to try to distinguish the negatives from ones done in any of the commercially available Rodinal clones.
If you like Rodinal that’s great. Most of us don’t because it loses film speed slightly and has coarse grain
@@nickfanzo I solved the speed loss problem by reducing agitation -- I develop with Push +2 times (= 1.4x listed for box speed), but agitate only five inversions every *third* minute. This lets the shadows get maximum development, but the reduced agitation allows local exhaustion to prevent blocking highlights.
Grain isn't that big a deal to me; I don't print large, and I shoot a lot more medium and large format than 127 and smaller (I shoot some 16 mm, but mostly with microfilm stock that's virtually grain free even in developers like Rodinal or Caffenol). I've found even Foma 400 in Parodinal isn't objectionably grainy; maybe I just don't mind grain.
@@SilntObsvr I also know about reducing agitation and using pyramids for less grain. But Xtol still gives more film speed and less grain.
@@nickfanzo Maybe an autocorrect issue, but I'm unfamiliar with "pyramids for less grain" and Google fails to find anything that looks relevant. Can you clarify that one?
AT LAST I NOW FINALLY UNDERSTAND REPLENISHING, THANKS A LOT!
I’ve been using Xtol for about 6 months. I love it. The quality of shadow detail and fine grain is exceptional. People on ably the cleanest developer I’ve ever used.
"pour" some neutral gas which is heavier than air on the surface in the bottle. It may be the same as used in gas lighter :) It prevents from oxygen.
Its like I post a question to r/darkroom and then come check out your channel only to realize you've already answered it in a detailed video haha
I’ve been spying on your brain.
@@TheNakedPhotographer That explains the voices.
(Side note, there are very few darkroom resources on youtube as good and as comprehensive as you, so from the bottom of my heart, thanks a ton for all these videos.)
Great video; for me, a blast from the past. Let me throw some shade over the discussion. Replenishment of used Kodak B&W developer was almost the standard into the late 1950s rather than the rare exception it is today. The reason was economic: almost all film developed was B&W, and the commercial labs required that process to save money. D-76 and Microdol-X plus a few "commercial" developers dominated use in the US. All offer replenishers. Some offered alternative development by diluted stock solutions, used "one-shot". This proved to offer better quality and lower cost to the DIY crowd, of which there were many folks. It also avoids the inherent problems of replenishment. These problems show up as the degeneration or "drift" of the replenished developer away from the chemistry is should be, resulting from: (1) Processing odd amounts of film and not using the correct amount of replenisher. (2) Contamination of the processing solution through multiple reuse. (3) Over time, oxidation of the processing developer, of the replenishment solution, or both. To some extent, all of these factors creep in over time and change your effective development. One shot development maintains the highest standard of repeatable development. At some point with replenishment, you have to toss the used developer and the remaining replenisher and start over; at this point you loose the economic advantage of replenishment. The favorable economics of replenishment are had only by large volume (commercial lab) volumes of use. While the possible savings of replenishment over one-shot use may seem attractive ("50%"), in most situations the savings are less, and in terms of monetary savings, that amount is almost negligible compared to cost of film or lost shooting opportunity if film is damaged.
I have seen the build up of by products in hydroquinone based developers that caused issues and the need to dump and start over. The reason I like Xtol is because it does away with this. If you use it with regularity and replenish properly, it can go years with excellent image quality and shelf stability. I speak from experience in a pro lab as well as home.
@@TheNakedPhotographer I do not question the technical potential of replenishment and long term savings over cost of developer. What I question is the practical ability of the home user to accurately measure consumption and meter replenishment, as well preserve the developer and replenisher solutions, long enough to realize such developer cost savings, in a low volume usage environment. Apart from those issues, to successfully replenish, you must periodically run some sort of test procedure with standardized film strips in order to catch and avoid creeping chemical imbalances which can degrade your images if not identified. Labs have the volume of business and economics to justify all of that. Individual users do not. That is why "one-shot" development is always going to yield superior results over time, and will probably do so for no significant cost difference. Since I started with D-76 and its D-76R replenisher in the late 1950s, I speak from personal observation.
If only I could replenish film, I’d be saving millions...
Another super video! And thank you so much for always being so supportive. )))
Thank you for this I finally understand replenishing now!
I love this.
Great explaination of replenishing. Thank you!
awesome!
@8:21 you said in separate sealed bottles the xtol should last a very long time. Like over 2 years? for the sealed bottles?
Thanks for your great videos!
Just.........WOWW!!! Thank you for this information :-)
Thanks for your work man, superhelpfull, chhers from Russia.
Clear, concise and easy to watch. Thank you for your videos in photography. Enjoyable to watch as well. Just a quick question when using xtol replenished, do you have to extend the developing time like for 1:1 dilution?. Thank you for the videos
Check the Kodak document J-109. It has different times for stock, 1:1, and replenished for a variety of films. You can also try the Massive Development Chart site, but I am dubious of many of the times posted there.
I should also mention that the first 4-6 rolls in a replenished developer are going to use the time for “stock”, then it will stabilize to the replenished time as it seasons. Keep an eye on the contrast in the meantime.
@@TheNakedPhotographer Do you know how long it takes to season? Past 6 rolls, how much would you bump developing time per additional roll, in your experience?
Hey! Great videos, Would you do something like this for color film? I use the UNI color kits that are $30 and the instructions say you can reuse for 8 35mm rolls. I develop about 50 color rolls a month and would love a cheaper option.
I have done about 18 on mine in a out 6 month and the chems still working great with that same kit
Your tip about breaking it up into smaller bottles is that if you are replenishing more frequently and developing more often? Or if you are replenishing and developing less often? Thank you!
It’s not a matter of replenishment, it keeps oxygen out. If something keeps me from developing film for a while and my half empty bottle oxidizes, I would rather it be a pint instead of a gallon.
If I am doing tank developing for 4x5 stainless steel with floating lids will i need to remove some developer to replenish?
I made a fill line on mine. I removed some developer, but I didn’t get rid of that part, added the replenisher, then added back the part I took out until it reached the fill line and discarded the rest
@@TheNakedPhotographer thank you for that information
Replenishing systems really only work when you have things extremely controlled, some big labs can do this. Replenishing yourself is setting yourself up for inconsistency.
And yet I’ve done it for years without issues. As have countless others
@@TheNakedPhotographer I know :) - Maybe im just a control freak. Like your videos!
I was told that the developer needs to be in a dark bottle so it's not exposed to light is that true? Love the video learned so much. thank you!
How often is the bottle exposed to light? Mine are kept in a cabinet and the darkroom lights are on less than 1% of the week. A clear or amber bottle won’t matter.
@@TheNakedPhotographer thanks so much for the help! You're right love your videos I'm just getting into developing and they help so much
I've been using Tmax RS, it would be great to see you do a video on it. It seems more complicated than xtol. You make the solution, can develop a certain number of rolls before needing to replenish. 8 if memory serves me. Have you used Tmax RS yet?
Yes, but for a different purpose. John Sexton recommends it for extreme minus development so I tried it out.
Is this replenishment method only for stock solution , ir can it be use for 1-1 developing? I just get my first bag of xtol , actually its eco pro , but its the same as xtol
Stock only
@@TheNakedPhotographer 😔 Oki thank you 🙏
How would you go about using that system with JOBO... with 470ml I can develop 4 rolls of 35mm, for example. Does the 70ml per roll still apply? that would mean removing 280ml. That's more of half the tank. Thank you for the video!
You have the right idea. In a perfect world you would adjust the replenishment rate to reach equilibrium, but in a real darkroom you just look at your negatives and decide. If the negatives get progressively too contrasty, lower the replenishment amount.
@@TheNakedPhotographer perfect, thank you! I'll be giving this a try then. I appreciate it!
I use Ilfosol 3 do you know if I’m safe to develop a second roll in the same batch of 1:14 working strength developer? I’m going to try it but just curious if you might know??
According to the documentation from Ilford, it should only be used as one shot. Just try it and see, but don't use it on important photos until you are sure of the results.
thank you for this explanation! Do you happen to know the milliliter need of replenisher per roll when using kodak flexicolor? I started with a fujifilm x-press kit and have quite of bit of bleach and fix, but have been one-shotting the developer and want to eventually switch to kodak flexicolor.
The standard replenisher uses 66ml per roll, the LU replenisher (Low Usage) uses 33ml. Look up Kodak document Z-131 for specifics.
@@TheNakedPhotographer thank you for this - I was looking around the z-131 file and according to it, when using the rotary-tube process to devleop c-41, flexicolor should only be used as a one shot but the bleach can be replenished hahaha would love to hear your thoughts since you also process film using a jobo cpp2.
"Although all chemicals used in a rotary-tube processor are
discarded after a single use, you can capture the used bleach
solution and reuse it up to its capacity before discarding it.
Use Table 3-3 to calculate how many films you can process
before the bleach is exhausted. Do not attempt to replenish
or regenerate used bleach solution. Reuse it only to the
batch capacity; then discard it. Also, do not reuse
developer, fixer, or stabilizer. You must discard these
solutions after a single use"
The numbers you mention align with sink-line processing. Can I adapt these #s into my practice when using the jobo cpp2? I appreciate all the information!
Ah, rotary. I use it one shot with my Jobo, replenished with my standard inversion tank. I tried replenisher with the Jobo and got terrible results from the oxidation.
@@TheNakedPhotographer ahh good to know thank you! I just finished watching your c-41 developing video and you mentioned one-shotting it there as well due to oxidation :) hahaha Thanks for your replies! Just saw your dark room tour video and pretty jelly of your de vere enlarger! I've been curious how people made such large chemical prints and did not know this existed till your video!
Thanks for the video!
Can you help me with this?:
I have flexicolor LU Developer
LORR Dev Starter
RA Bleach replenisher NR
RA Fixer Replenisher
Final rinse
All Flexicolor
I'm using a Filmomat machine. it takes 500ml at a time for 1-4 135-36 or 4 120 or 6 4x5 films at a time.
There are videos on here of the creator showing how the machine works... but it is like a jobo but I THINK it introduces more air into the chemistry since it's not a full tank.
Would you be able to help me figure out how many rolls of each chemical I can use before needing to replenish?
Thank you so much!!
You’re in a tough spot. Technically you shouldn’t be replenishing the developer in a rotary processor, but if I were going to I would get a box of process control strips and use one in every batch. Then I would plot it on control strip graph paper and adjust replenisher until aim and target were within limits consistently.
@@TheNakedPhotographer I would need a densitometer to do this properly right? Would you mind actually outlining how I would conduct the test after creating the varies test strips and the conrol strip?
I recommend you read the chapter in the Kodak Z-131 manual. It’s a free pdf from the Kodak website. It has everything you need, including the tracking chart. Eventually I’ll do a video covering this, but not for awhile.
@@TheNakedPhotographer Yeah I been on the forums all day after giving that thing a few reads. I just take a while to learn sometimes. But I actually figured out most of the things I need and I'm fine for now. Thank you regardless for the qucik responces!!. I don't celebrate christmas, but happy holidays to you
The 430ml gets weaker each time.
That’s why people replenish.