Also helps to use primer as guide to stop sanding when it shows through. A lot of people keep sanding when bare metal high spots appear and just helps to defeat the purpose. Nice Caddy, BTW.
Great video, thx! So I have a car with some very minor surface rust. Is the correct procedure to sand it off, do the epoxy filler then bondo,primer,paint,clear coat?
A few years back there was a rash of body filler related issues, 3m sent out a rep/ one of their main chemist, to do rounds at body shops checking for proper applications. I asked him about the holy grail of ratios & -“ 10% Hardner to product “ That has been working great , this is So. Calif.
Problem I've had using epoxy before filler is I almost always sand through it to bare metal in a few spots after I've applied the filler. I usually do another light coat of epoxy primer before moving on then. I dunno if that's the right way to do it. I've also used epoxy filler on bare metal instead of primer. But I don't think they are equivalent at all, but better than polyester based filler I think?
yes I learnt the hard way I put body filler l on bare metal on a resto 😪 took 8 years to bubble but even at TAFE they taught us to put on bare metal I said no problem
hi, how can you apply boddyfiler on top of 80 grid without shrinking back. I usualy use Evercoat not 3M but in the TDS they say sand with 80 folowedbe180 to remove deep scraches around repaired area. I'm just asking to learn from peaople with expirience in restourations. Keep doing your amazing work. Wish you everything best
@AA_Ron155 But can you sand the cured primer with 180 grit, before applying filler? I'm a hobbyists and sometimes have long periods of time between activities.
It might be a hybrid, but it's not a true epoxy. True epoxy seals the metal, 2050 does not. The TDS states you can apply a PPG sealer over it if you like. An epoxy wouldn't need a sealer. And nowhere in their paperwork does PPG claim it's epoxy. So I'm very skeptical that it is.
@@SealofPerfectionCorrect. I spoke with a rep at PPG. It’s an epoxy/polyester blend. I applied it over a steel plate and left it out in the elements for a year. Within 6 months rust started creeping through. This does not happen with a purebred epoxy.
@@LynchAutoHouse Yeah, the TDS even says "If preferred, VP2050 may be directly topcoated or sealed with a compatible PPG sealer." So it's not a sealer, otherwise why would the say you could seal it? There'd be no need if the 2050 itself was an actual sealer. And nowhere in the TDS is the word "epoxy".
Strange that water in body filler is bad but you can spray a water based primer directly over bare metal. Do you spot prime cut throughs with the VP2050 before applying another coat of filler? No one seems to want to answer this question. Thanks
if you break through to bare metal, yes. the key is to not cut through to bare metal at this point. block add filler to lows and when you have everything to one level step to your final grit this when if you cut through to bare its ok because you will be applying another application of primer preferably a high build epoxy.
@@jakeymon22 Thanks for the response. I know there is so much emphasis on not putting filler over metal so it just seems very time consuming when you do cut through to have to spot prime, let cure and fill again. I use VP2050 and it's a relatively slow drying primer. I've also seen the shrink test here about allowing three days to dry. To do filler on this scale and not cut through youd have to start with extremely flat panels or possibly get all this filler straight in one coat. Seems like a pretty tall order. Not saying it can't be done, just wondering how many cut throughs are directly filled or get a second round of primer and maybe that's why no one wants to answer the question. Maybe "cheating" a little?
@@class5bodyworks all bare metal break throughs if you get them get sealed again using vp2050. Because it’s also a high build & epoxy that’s the awesome thing you are only using one product that does it all.
I thought epoxy sealers can’t be sanded? That’s what makes all this stuff so confusing, if you put filler over epoxy primer/sealer and fillers get sanded then that means the surrounding epoxy gets sanded too. I’m so confused by this.
@@otallono It’s well known you must sand epoxy primers for adhesion if re-coating or top coating outside of the top coat time. Otherwise, enjoy your paint until the first wash because that’s about how long it will last before delaminating.
@@hserieshooligan1997 Some epoxies are different so I would recommend you check the data sheet. For most epoxies including PPG 408- Epotec I would leave it for a couple of days to make sure it’s fully cured and not going to sink or shrink, then filler on top. Putting filler straight onto fresh epoxy might cause adhesion issues with two dissimilar materials curing at different rates.
Dear sir, in behalf of all of us, rookies new to the game. Thank you so much for explaining things so simply, we idiots understand, finally! 💯👀😎
Also helps to use primer as guide to stop sanding when it shows through. A lot of people keep sanding when bare metal high spots appear and just helps to defeat the purpose. Nice Caddy, BTW.
I never thought to use a scale for bonding but it’s genius.
Same same for jb weld
I don't mind watching your videos more than once! They're REQUIRED VIEWING, as far as I'm concerned 👀 TYVM 💯
Excellent
Great video, thx! So I have a car with some very minor surface rust. Is the correct procedure to sand it off, do the epoxy filler then bondo,primer,paint,clear coat?
A few years back there was a rash of body filler related issues, 3m sent out a rep/ one of their main chemist, to do rounds at body shops checking for proper applications. I asked him about the holy grail of ratios & -“ 10% Hardner to product “ That has been working great , this is So. Calif.
makes no sense, you have a totally different work time depending on humidity, ambient and panel temperature and the product you're using
Good video bud
Problem I've had using epoxy before filler is I almost always sand through it to bare metal in a few spots after I've applied the filler. I usually do another light coat of epoxy primer before moving on then. I dunno if that's the right way to do it. I've also used epoxy filler on bare metal instead of primer. But I don't think they are equivalent at all, but better than polyester based filler I think?
yes I learnt the hard way I put body filler l on bare metal on a resto 😪 took 8 years to bubble but even at TAFE they taught us to put on bare metal I said no problem
Can you apply kitty hair at qtr panel welds for strength,then Epoxy and then start poly filler and blocking over Epoxy?
too professional.
hi, how can you apply boddyfiler on top of 80 grid without shrinking back. I usualy use Evercoat not 3M but in the TDS they say sand with 80 folowedbe180 to remove deep scraches around repaired area. I'm just asking to learn from peaople with expirience in restourations. Keep doing your amazing work. Wish you everything best
Block the body filler with 80 till you get it really close then do a skim coat of polyester putty and block that with 120 and your ready to prime.
Boy you better learn how to spell before you try bodywork lol.
How do you sand? Once you start blocking the filler and hit the epoxy it will gum up, it’s not meant to be sanded?
Once you break through the outer skin of epoxy , it sands well
Never seen anyone weight boby filler to mix i have been doing wrong for 30 years good luck with that must be high end cars 🤣👍
good point. I agree. However your body work skills are more related to plastering.
Are you applying the body filler before or after the epoxy primer cures? Does it make a difference either way?
Has to be within the recoat window of the epoxy without sanding. Once the epoxy is fully cured the filler wont have good adhesion.
@AA_Ron155 But can you sand the cured primer with 180 grit, before applying filler? I'm a hobbyists and sometimes have long periods of time between activities.
@@AA_Ron155according to body guys on the hotrod forums they let the epoxy fully cure, sand, then apply filler
but isnt 2050 not an epoxy primer>? did you use an epoxy primer before the 2050, i thought the 2050 is a standard high build primer?
It might be a hybrid, but it's not a true epoxy. True epoxy seals the metal, 2050 does not. The TDS states you can apply a PPG sealer over it if you like. An epoxy wouldn't need a sealer. And nowhere in their paperwork does PPG claim it's epoxy. So I'm very skeptical that it is.
@@SealofPerfectionCorrect. I spoke with a rep at PPG. It’s an epoxy/polyester blend. I applied it over a steel plate and left it out in the elements for a year. Within 6 months rust started creeping through. This does not happen with a purebred epoxy.
@@LynchAutoHouse Yeah, the TDS even says "If preferred, VP2050 may be directly topcoated or sealed with a compatible PPG sealer."
So it's not a sealer, otherwise why would the say you could seal it? There'd be no need if the 2050 itself was an actual sealer.
And nowhere in the TDS is the word "epoxy".
Strange that water in body filler is bad but you can spray a water based primer directly over bare metal. Do you spot prime cut throughs with the VP2050 before applying another coat of filler? No one seems to want to answer this question. Thanks
if you break through to bare metal, yes. the key is to not cut through to bare metal at this point. block add filler to lows and when you have everything to one level step to your final grit this when if you cut through to bare its ok because you will be applying another application of primer preferably a high build epoxy.
@@jakeymon22
Thanks for the response. I know there is so much emphasis on not putting filler over metal so it just seems very time consuming when you do cut through to have to spot prime, let cure and fill again. I use VP2050 and it's a relatively slow drying primer. I've also seen the shrink test here about allowing three days to dry. To do filler on this scale and not cut through youd have to start with extremely flat panels or possibly get all this filler straight in one coat. Seems like a pretty tall order. Not saying it can't be done, just wondering how many cut throughs are directly filled or get a second round of primer and maybe that's why no one wants to answer the question. Maybe "cheating" a little?
@@class5bodyworks all bare metal break throughs if you get them get sealed again using vp2050. Because it’s also a high build & epoxy that’s the awesome thing you are only using one product that does it all.
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS
Thanks for the info. Had to double check what channel I was on for a minute. Didn't expect to find you here.🤣
WOW. Is there something wrong with NOT using body filler?.. .
you can't shape anything without it
I thought epoxy sealers can’t be sanded? That’s what makes all this stuff so confusing, if you put filler over epoxy primer/sealer and fillers get sanded then that means the surrounding epoxy gets sanded too. I’m so confused by this.
Sure you can. Wear a mask. You can (and must) sand it if you’re coating it with anything outside of the recoat window in the data sheet.
@@BushyB9883 It's well known you don't sand epoxy primers unless it's high build variant
@@otallono It’s well known you must sand epoxy primers for adhesion if re-coating or top coating outside of the top coat time. Otherwise, enjoy your paint until the first wash because that’s about how long it will last before delaminating.
@@BushyB9883I sprayed epoxy primer yesterday can I bondo straight over it or should I scuff it
@@hserieshooligan1997 Some epoxies are different so I would recommend you check the data sheet. For most epoxies including PPG 408- Epotec I would leave it for a couple of days to make sure it’s fully cured and not going to sink or shrink, then filler on top. Putting filler straight onto fresh epoxy might cause adhesion issues with two dissimilar materials curing at different rates.
Just eye ball everything
It is NOT "critical".
oh wow... as soon as i saw the weighing of bondo you lost me completely and i clicked off