The REAL Reason Final Fantasy is Struggling: This makes perfect sense..
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- čas přidán 27. 05. 2024
- Former Director of Business Jacob Navok has shared a follow up thread about the state of AAA & Final Fantasy games, and the uphill battle single player releases face against service games.
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#finalfantasyviirebirth #finalfantasyvii #ff7 - Hry
8:40 AND it had the dream team with Toriyama doing the iconic art like he had done for DQ in the past.
....god I miss Toriyama.
This is so depressing. As a family man pushing forty, I have no time, nor desire to play service games. It would be like telling someone in the old days, “sorry, novels aren’t doing it anymore. You need to go to the theater on the other side of the ocean.”
Big budget, sweeping JRPG’s are the pinnacle of entertainment for me. They are my novels. To see them falling in popularity, and to think of the market shrinking even further is incredibly sad.
Just play Xenoblade. Nintendo has right now with Xenoblade, what Final Fantasy used to be in its prime in terms of quality - best JRPG serious out and the future of the series is looking pretty bright.
Agreed 100%. I will never play live service games. AAA JRPGs will always be the primary games I play.
Xenoblade is creepy borderline pedo fan fiction. They were better when square soft told him no and we got xenogears because of it
AAA and jrpg is an oxymoron. Japanese do not AAA. games like persona are not AAA games
@@fillerbunnyninjashark271You need to get a life bro. Stop worrying about spurious labels and categories.
As a major Final Fantasy and Square Enix fan it sucks to hear how much they're struggling because of rising costs to make games and the constant need for increased profits each year to appease shareholders. Octopath traveler 2, Triangle Strategy, Star Ocean 2 remake, FF16, and FF7 Rebirth were all games I purchased day 1 and loved. I really hope they turn things around. Foamstars and some other failures like Babylon's fall and them selling crystal dynamics and the tomb raider IP along with Hitman were terrible to see as a big fan of their games. I am really looking forward to FF7 part 3, the FF9 Remake, Kingdom Hearts 4, and Dragon Quest 12.
lol I got all those games
Oh man by the time KH4 comes out my kids will probably be in high school.
as an old FF fan ( i play since i was 10 yo , now i'm 33 and have a black mage , a moogle and a chocobo tattoed) i just don't have money to buy enought square games expecting to have the old square quality anymore, i mean, i got FF XV royal edition , DQ 11 special edition, FF VII remake, FFVII rebirth and FF XVI, and i loved them, but also got Valkyrie Elisium at full price and i didn't like it, the combat was cool but was not a valkyrie profile game, kinda sucks that most games outside the main IP's sucks , new tries like Forspoken trying to please western audiences sucks even more , and all this costs tons of money , also their mobile gatchas are predatory and sucks way more than every chinese random gatcha
square is not a company that we can trust anymore, i can trust fromsoftware, i can trust bandai, i can trust mihoyo , but i can't trust square anymore unfortunally and my money is limited
The problem is who tf told these people we always need the best graphics in games?
@@PokemonTrainerChris303 As mentioned in the video, cutting edge graphics just sort of evolved into a technical showcase of what a game can do, and there is unfortunately always an expectation put on AAA publishers to push that tech to the furthest possible.
"The FF brand is supposed to be a spectacular, 100+ hour AAA journey." This kind of thinking is part of the problem right here. FF games weren't trying to be 100+ hours until very recently and I think people would be happier with going back to 40-50 hour games of a higher quality and less filler. Obviously I'm just one opinion, but for example, my playtime in Stellar Blade is probably half or less than my time in FF7 Rebirth but my satisfaction is much higher because I didn't spend 40+ hours playing carnival games, climbing Assassin's Creed towers, and scanning materia crystals.
Don’t try to act like stellar blade is better. Hell nah
Outside of the characters tits and ass that game is unremarkable. Nobody is fooled where the zeitgeist around that game stems from.
The industry itself is trying to suck up more and more time from games. I remember playing 15 as the last FF I played and I felt like it was soulless. It wasnt a bad game, I feel like that needs to be said.
But it didn't even feel like an 'open world' even ironically compared to older titles like 6, 10 or 12. I admit this is kind of subjective and and based on personal taste.
But what is more objective is that gaming is larger as an industry and it is maximize eyeballs on that gaming screen. As much as I would love a epic story that was 50+ hours, I don't have confidence in either current leadership in Square or the development teams working for them.
Absolutely right. Also just finished Stellar Blade. I remember almost every boss fight in Stellar Blade and went straight to NG+ to play again after beating it. But I don't remember any boss I want to fight again in FF7 Rebirth. I remember all the areas in Stellar Blade, including the open world section because they have many clever designs like Souls games. Can't say the same for Rebirth. After a few regions just felt so bored I have to climb those towers and visit those life streams again. I dreaded when I see the line of yellow dots reminding me how many points of interest I still need to find. At the end of the day, gamers just want satisfying gameplay with a good story.
Its only 100 hrs if you do all the side quest
That game design and the corresponding zeitgeist is carried by the waifu design. Pretending anything different is laughable
Stellar blade won’t be in GOTY conversations. Rebirth is front runner right now.
The issue is also the economy. If a 6 or 7 out of 10 is going to cost me the same as a 9 out of ten and I have a (diminishing) amount of money to spend on games then I'm going to have to be way more discerning and only go for those 9/10s. The "Cheaper New Brands" Are cheaper to make but are almost always still the same amount or maybe 10$ less.
Get a better job
@@mike1989librastfu, that's not always an option. You're extremely rude
@mike1989libra Or I could just wait for a sale. Which Im sure a majority of people have switched to that mindset with the current economy. A video game isn't exactly an essential.
A 7 out of 10 game is still a well above average game... The best games on PS1/2 were 6-7/10 games. There's no such thing as a 10/10 game. Nothing is perfect
Ratings are subjective though.
If you put 500 hours into a 60 dollar game that is a 6/7 critically vs. 50 hours into a 60 dollar game that is a 9/10 critically,
What game was worth your money more?
I think studios are vastly over estimating the value proposition of their products if they plan to charge $150 for a "AAA" single player title. High end graphics aren't worth the increased price when consumers can purchase $40-50 titles with stylized graphics that are just as fun, if not more so.
The games are just plain too big and too expensive to make. It seems like a totally self-inflicted situation on the part of the publishers. I welcome cheaper, shorter AAA games where the devs have more creative control. I don't care about graphics, just give me some freedom to make choices, 60fps, and fewer side quests. The best games I played recently were indies that only took a weekend to finish like the old days.
$30 - $40 Indy games are absolutely killing it on Steam right now!
The most recent game series Ive picked up is Hyperdimension Neptunia. Being a weeb its weird that this is my first anime game, but I am absolutely imersed in all the prity artworks and the visual novel style stories, and the music and fan works. The games are cheep and they make money asking the fans - would you like to buy bikini outfit DLC?
@@captainthunderbolt7541 30 to 40 dolars? Neptunia is 13 euros.
@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 Steam has some great deals at any price range!
I think a strong argument could be made for making a series of final fantasy classic games. Original stories and sound tracks but made on a smaller budget in the style of 3d models on pre rendered backgrounds.
They made these games (6 through 9) with small teams and released one per year. Imagine what could be achieved in that model with modern technology.
If they made games in the Crystal Chronicles style I would eat that shit up. I had so much hope for an Echoes of Time remake but the original remake flopped so hard
6-9 were not considered "small" games for their time. In the video NSP literally says OG FF7 was the most expensive game at the time of its release. You cannot use old games as an example of what could be done in the modern era because games have advanced so much as the decades went on.
They alr did with octopath and bravely, and where did it take them? Many others also have tried, yet not a single of em has managed to reach FF numbers.
@Kingdom850 I feel like you're missing the point. It doesn't matter wether or not they were considered big budgets/teams at the time. By current standards they aren't.
The point is that in the modern era. You could create games in the 90's style. They would look amazing without the need for massive budgets because all you require are high res models and pre rendered backgrounds. You could produce these games far more frequently and cheaper than their AAA counterparts. You could even port them to portable devices. FF fans wont feel disappointed because they still have the main series and games are also being made in the style they feel nostalgic for. The company gets to sell more game more consistently, improving cash flow. Its a win win.
@@bigmediafan How so? Others have already mentioned that FF veterans went on to make some of those small scale titles that coexist with the mainline FF games. We HAVE what you're asking for already but do you see stuff like that garnering huge success for them? No, you don't.
What these AAA companies are going to find is that the GAAS ship has already sailed. The industry is already saturated and the cream has risen to the top, so to say. Nothing SE puts out is going to be able to compete with Genshin Impact regardless of the actual quality because GI is already established. People are thousands of dollars and years in already. In Navok's own words, live service games generate revenue in perpetuity. How does that happen? People attach to those games and aren't moving for anything. They are invested into it. There are only so many seats and at this point, they are full. SE is in for a rude awakening if they think ANY video game publisher is going to sell $150 video games to the average consumer in this current economy with the rising cost of living. It's just never going to happen.
The only way Genshin Impact is going to be dethroned is if it kills itself off enough for a competitor to rise and that competitor better be good at launch or else people won't bother.
The biggest game of this year, helldivers 2 is literally a live service game. The biggest game squenix ever has is FF14, which further prove the argument.
What are you trying to prove here?
ff14 > GI anyday, i was done with GI when doing dailies took voer 90 minutes and felt like i was still at my job...
@@Centrioless Gamers are not a uniform group. A company should know its target audiance and not expect a game of a genera made for a smaller subset of gamers is going generate the same proffits as one of a different genera made for the biggest subset of gamers.
While playing 7 Rebirth, I kept thinking "man, these graphics are awesome," but I never had my breath taken away by the environment like I did with Breath of the Wild or TOTK. It's like the difference between an Instagram of a sunset and a painting of a sunset.
If FF as a brand really can't handle non-photorealism, then I'd like to see something like a spinoff franchise that goes for something more stylized.
The graphics are good in some areas but some of the terrain looks like hot garbage. Ghost of Tsushima and Horizon handled this much better.
This is such a good point. The graphics are amazing but it feels kind of soulless at times.
While playing 7 Rebirth, I kept thinking "man, these story and characters are truly awful, who sh*t on my childhood,"
That might have something to so with the drop in sales
For me it’s the opposite, I rather spend 70 and play hours in a game that has amazing graphics on PS5 than a game that looks like it’s for the N64 (Zelda games).
@@vonclaren1 3edgy5me
Everyone is avoiding the obvious. The COVID ( sales numbers ) are not a realistic number to compare average consumer numbers. So of course the triple A experience isn’t going to do well
Dude, ZERO people have talked about this. I've said this on every video I've seen on this and nobody will say what needs to be said.
Honestly I remember when Remake came out people expected that to sell even better considering a lot of people were forced inside. Despite that it didn't sell as well as they had hoped. It sold well, but not as high as expected.
Yup, 100% true.
But shareholders keep holding on to that. Hence the many job losses in the industry ( i mean they will never cut at the top, it's always at the bottom first, even though cutting at the top would get the same results way faster and with less risk...but people at the top protect each other the way people at the bottom can't)
For a shareholder it must make more $ every year, otherwise they sell it, then let it tank
@@vonclaren1 Infinite grouth in finite space is not possible and its high time our society realizes this.
The problem with prices going up is that people are not making more money, so the sales will go down, or people will go deeper into only playing live service games.
When inequality reaches a critical point revolution is inevitable. I hope the capitalist oligarchs understand this.
Which is even worse because people are notoriously bad at keeping track of multiple small transactions.
@@xXSCDTXx I play suck games with 0 transactions.
It may be where the industry is headed but I'm not there for $150 dollar games. If anything I feel like that will only lead to a faster collapse of the AAA system as a large portion of their shrinking market share is priced out of games. I struggle to think what I'd be willing to pay $150 dollars for when there's 50ish years of gaming history to pick from for less. Even a hypothetical Persona 6, DMC6, or FF17 feels dead on arrival to me at that price; the only possible exception I could make if FF7R3 since I'm already invested in two games of that enough to want to see the end before spoilers become unavoidable, but anything new seems doubtful.
Bruh, I paid $20 for Red Dead Redemption 2 and that's still the only game I've even considered to be truly "next gen"....I still wouldn't have paid anything more than $60 for it. No game is worth $150.
too poor for 150? feels bad man
Unfortunately Rebirth flopped even it is like the best FF game in decades... IMHO.
@@Alexriga Well, being available only on the PS5 and costing $70 will do that.
@@xarbinchaoticneutral1785 really? You actually think that its because $150 is unaffordable or are you just here to toss sht?
I'm getting whiplash, free live service games are syphoning players so more than doubling the price of single payer games is the answer... That is the stupidist thing I've heard. $70 price tags are frequently cited as a major reason people stop gaming. $150 price will only make this worse.
What is funny is that this is all software so the budget is only going to pay peoples wages and not any actual raw materials. Obviously people are overpaid and a crash is coming. If square wants to survive they need to rethink what they are doing. Shareholders care when you fail and your losing money. They just need to lose enough to give a damn and turn over management to someone who does play videogames. If they make a genshin impact I will not play it either.
Meanwhile I still play the classcis from the 90s and 2000s and have absolutely no desire to spend anywhere near, let alone above, 10% of my monthly wage on a single game. The most modern game I have is Hyperdimension Neptunia Re1 made in 2014.
i have said it before 70 dollars is reasonable for a video game and everything else goes up why should video games be different.
ironically a free entry to a game leads to many players spendings way more than $70, often hundreds and in cases thousands. most of the time it's just for cosmetics too. single player AAA games are in a tough spot for sure
@@extra4542 They could solve that by reusing assets and making direct sequels to games.
I'm not paying $150 a game with the way gaming is going. I'll just go to my backlog and go retro only. It's absurd and seriously if sixteen is any indicator of where the series is going, you can count me out
16 was fine, in my opinion. But in the old days, if you didn't like an FF, you'd only have to wait a year or two for another you might like more. Knowing FFXVI will probably be the last mainline FF for five years or more creates some bitterness, just as I felt with the XIII games. I loved XV, but again, I would've appreciated it a lot more if XVI came out two years later.
@@12ealDealOfficial 16 had nothing going for it besides a combat system that it poached from Devil May Cry. The world felt empty (no random treasure, hidden locations, or other cool things to discovery), & the progression system was boring, the lack of equipment customization was shocking in what is supposed to be the RPG genre. In an era where every genre title is forced to branch out into becoming multi-genre titles (every game now is an Open World + Action + RPGs), it's going to be a lot easier for companies with core proficiency in the more technical areas (like battle system or graphics engine) to simply pay for a good plot/story than it is for a plot/story based company like Square to buy/build core proficiencies it most definitely doesn't have. Square-Enix has spent too much $$$ and effort over the years trying to create the fusion of "movies" and "video games" (starting with the FF movie bomb & then all the stuff with FFXV), which nobody wants, and not enough on building out strong technical proficiency. Company has been mismanaged to the extreme.
IMO, Square-Enix is worth more for its scrap parts liquidated and auctioned off to the highest bidder than it is as an ongoing operation. People grew up with & love it's unique characters, music, story, & other valuable Intellectual Property. As such, Square-Enix's greatest asset = nostalgia member-berries... Not "new stuff/ideas", not "high levels of technical competency", just nostalgia member-berries. And so the best economic use of that valuable IP (the nostalgia member-berries) = putting it in the hands of a new owner who is better situated to actually make engaging titles in the current market. If I was a SE shareholder, I would be on the Gordon Gecko side of chopping up the company for scrap and selling its parts out piecemeal to the highest bidder. As much as I will always have a soft spot in my heart for Square-Enix, nothing it has done in the past decade shows me that the company has what it takes to compete in the modern market & it is essentially just barely scraping by based off of the fumes of fortune leftover from its glory days.
Factor of things.
The new games are completely different from the originals. Combat has evolved which isnt a bad thing but it does isolate those who liked the previous games.
And maybe the newer games arent resonating well with younger people.
What blew my mind was that final fantasy was at one point mainstream enough that it appeared in two and a half men
An episode where jake was bothering charlie to get him final fantasy 10. I dont think thats somethint you would see nowadays.
Lol, I remember that scene too. I think Final Fantasy just no longer has the cultural impact it once did, but I wonder why that is. What made it so mediocre compared to how it once was perceived? It can't just be because of the FF13 trilogy, several years have passed since those games came out and there have been numerous opportunities for Squeenix to revive the franchise. But it just hasn't happened. The only people buying these games are the diehard FF fans who become more and more jaded with each new FF release. People new to the series? They don't care about these games at all, or they don't have nostalgia bias towards the series so they are less willing to over-praise things that really aren't that great.
@@rayecast Tbf Final Fantasy 15 also dropped the ball on multiple occasions, FF13 was garbage in its own right and FF14 despite being an MMORPG is quite good. I didn't buy FF16 because 1. They decided to make it a console exclusive to the PS5 and 2. Sour taste in my mouth after FF15. I just prefer the old school Final Fantasies from the NES all the way to the PS2 with FF9 and FF6 being my favourites in the series
@@rayecastThe gaming market is ridiculously huge compared to 20 years ago, that’s mostly what it is. So many things are competing for people’s time now. Everything was simple in the 90s and 2000s. Also, Square doesn’t command a legion of mindless fans who always love everything they do like Nintendo does.
@@rayecastff13 and ff15 was mediocre at best, that’s basically 2 console generation. The saddest part about it is that square are actually good again, in my opinion the best they ever been since the ps1 days, but the sales just isn’t there. Shame.
Completely different feels like overstating, unless we're just talking about combat elements not being purely turn based.
That "100 plus hours" remark is ridiculous. If you play every single play mainline normally, only doing a few bits of side content here and there, then not a single one should come anywhere close to that time.
I - 10 hours
II - 10 to 12 hours
III - 7 to 10 hours
IV - 15 to 20 hours
V - 20 to 25 hours
VI - 20 to 25 hours
VII - 20 to 25 hours
VIII - 25 to 30 hours
IX - 25 to 30 hours
X - 30 to 35 hours
XII - 30 to 35 hours
XIII - 35 to 40 hours
XV - 20 to 25 hours
XVI - 30 to 35 hours
Let's be honest here - when we all played the first 12 games, barely ANY of us went out our way to get every single piece of optional content done on our very first playthrough; we saved a lot of it until after we had seen the credits roll, and yet we sit here and claim they were 100 plus hours? BS. Even WITH the side stuff, none of them hit that length unless you were seriously struggling with it, and even then they'd be around 70 to 80 hours maximum. Want to know why games are getting so artificially padded, costing so much money to develop and taking so long to come out? It's because of nonsense feedback like that 100 hour comment.
Live service is not everything some people are going back to older games.
We've over 40 years of "live service" free games to play
That "some people" who are going back to older games is significantly smaller than the ones who are not going back to older games.
I still play the classcis from the 90s and 2000s and have basically no desire to buy newer stuff.
The most modern game I have is Hyperdimension Neptunia Re1 made in 2014.
@@j3fk4 Everyone I know plays old games.
@@j3fk4 incorrect. Data shows a majority of people playing games released around 2018. That is 6 years old. And the indie market is huge.
i want to see this guys take on Capcom. who's games while are primarily single player, do have mtx, and yet, is reporting their 7th year of record profits.
And while I loved Rebirth, I do have to admit, that it *IS* an alienating title despite how good of a game it is. Remake even, isn't actually a Remake. not like how RE4r or RE2r are remakes. sure the similarities there are they change the gameplay up a bit yeah, but the narrative experience is still there. 7r is a cryptic continual rebooting of a game with expanded lore that has been made validated to the point of necessitated consumption just to fully grasp what *may* be happening in the tri-part story. Ask someone prior to 2020 what happens after the party leaves Midgar, and they'll tell you they arrive at Kalm. Do so now after 2020, and the answer will involve time travel, the movie-sequel, a tie in series of short story novelias and who knows what else.
Now there's a mobile gacha heavy side game that's a very heavily abridged retelling of the entire story that's only a fraction of the way into said retelling, yet it's also simultaneously providing very important contextual information that even slightly helps to understand just a little what is going on in the actual big games. At least when Kingdom Hearts went ahead with the very important spin-off mania, they at least had the peace of mind to constantly re-release those titles in whole packaged together after the fact so then if it was desired, you could easily get to know the whole supposed story without going into cryptic sources of information for niche lore dumps about secondary characters that are relevant to the story. Honestly, if FF7 did the same and released BC, CC, and DC as a combined title, while that wouldn't necessarily *fix* the situation, it can help alleviate the entire issue, as I'm sure it's going to do so with KH next month when they finally come to Steam and I'll be rebuying those games for the 4th time because they'll be finally coming to my preferred platform of choice.
The entire approach to 7 specifically has been a lot of weirdly unintended foot shooting for the sake of grand long-form storytelling that many would argue just wasn't necessary. Even if I'm enjoying the direction they're going with it, I can't deny that I would have much preferred if it was just an RE2 styled remake, even with the expanded lore as part of it. yet, 7r instead is something much different.
I think some people are missing the point. This isn’t about Square Enix or FF. It’s about the entire AAA industry collapsing.
AAA studios need to learn how to make games more cheaply, because right now the gap between AAA graphics and Indy graphics isn't that big - and it's getting smaller by the year!
Balon is a bad example. It was Square working against their portfolio and taking a risk on a duo of devs who had been on a long string of failures pushing a terrible idea and not pulling the plug early on when people were saying "This looks like shit". Betting on them was pure insanity.
Balon look optical good to ok. The gameplay and story were bad. One button inputs in a jump and run are a bad idea. Splitting the story into a extra book is bad if you need it to understand the story.
It's struggling because they dropped their original formula, like combat style, and they stopped writing good solid, strong storylines. They also did not faithfully remake Final Fantasy VII like they said they would.
I am now 34 years old, and Final Fantasy 10 was my entry point into the world of FF back then. I know I'm no longer part of the new generation of players. But I really miss the turn-based battles like in FFX. All these new games somehow feel lackluster. Did FF16 look good? Absolutely. It looked FANTASTIC. But somehow, it doesn't appeal to me because of the battles. I don't know why, but modern FF games hardly excite me anymore. I never had the pleasure of playing FF7 back in the day. So I was really looking forward to the REMAKE. I thought I could finally experience the story. But split into 3 parts? No real progress in leveling ... somehow, in the end, it just wasn't the FF I had expected.
When the music from FFX plays today, I get really nostalgic. Back then, I truly felt like I was wandering through the world of Spira with Yuna and Tidus's crew.
Maybe I've just gotten too old.
Or maybe most games have simply lost their magic.
Are you seriously judging the remake project because you don't carry accessories and levels from one game to another? Do we need to explain this? This subject is too tired man, they announced this in 2015-16, but damn, each game is really a robust and solid game and at the end of the day you carry over some things from the first game like the characters' skills and some of the summons you caught part 1 and the dlc. So there is progress, but it's false progress to give you the feeling that you loaded something, but still man, WTF, each game is balanced differently, which ends up giving the impression of progress too, which you what you do with cloud in Rebirth is absurdly better than what you did with cloud in part 1, I repeat, it's false progress, but you feel it as progress. So much improvement from the first game to the second that not only we progressed but the developers did too. I personally don't understand how people put the fact that the game is divided into 3 as an obstacle to playing, it's so silly. And i don't agree with you, i'm 38 years old, i'm more old than you, man, i lived FF ps1 era and remake project is the only one thing that push me for this time, is so good.
I was also introduce to FF through X. I'm 33 lol. I've enjoyed every one of the non-online FF main titles since. I've liked the different gameplay VIIR has been my all time favorite by far, gameplay and story, but I did love the single-turn-based X. For me I don't have time for video games or even like 99% of all movies or video games anymore. I get bored fast by anything that doesn't have an elaborate story that I can take stuff away from, so I'm a book reader. But even then, there is real life and work.
Maybe we're both getting too old. It's bittersweet, but it's the truth. Everything but FF has lost it's magic for me, so I don't mind paying around seven-hundred for a new console and one or two video games if I only have to do it around once a decade. But if it gives me good thoughts, inspiration, and memories, I'm game.
Loved your comment!
Yakuza Like a dragon is the most fun Turn Based combat since FFX for me , it Surprised me
Dam that sucks ff4 was mine but it was call ff2 at that time
Ff16 was amazing wth you talking about I didn’t care how it look I cared how it played
The issue of FF's sales trends is multi-variate, surely.
Obsession with top-notch fidelity. Costs. Losing Sakaguchi. Ever longer development times and release windows. Aging fanbase. Carrying almost nothing over from title to title. Common sentiments. Exclusivity. The huge disappointment of 15...
There's gotta be myriad more things I'm not thinking of but all of it adds up to the trend of people becoming less enthusiastic about the FF series.
Anecdotal, I know, but I know a lot of people who were huge FF fans growing up and into their adult life who only recently have started to talk about their apathy and disinterest regarding FF games. I've put my faith in XIV to hold me for the time being but I feel those sentiments pretty strongly as well after 15, 16 and 7r.
yeah so when I read this "engineers and artists have gotten better, not worse" at 6:43 I roll my eyes. Actually it's possible they got better but it's the decisions made above that suck. If they keep the current trend (FF13 - FF15 - FF16) for FF17, it doesn't matter if the game will end up costing $10 or $150 : I won't buy it. They should replay their older games and take a good long look at Baldur's Gate 3.
@@armorvil By the time Elden Ring had released, it was probably too late to take any qualitative observations from it to heart. But Witcher 3 had been out well before Rebirth started production and yet I see absolutely no lessons or creative choices adapted from that game in Rebirth's open world.
As a digital artist myself, I can say with certainty that the skill level of the average creative has certainly improved, thanks largely in part to the advent of the internet and accessibility through tablets and phones. You can access other professional artists and gain a college students level of understanding in the arts before you're even out of high school now.
I think a lot of your observations stem largely from a lack of leadership and creative vision and/or a 'too many cooks in the kitchen' situation like you had with 15 and likely have with the Remake trilogy.
Losing Sakaguchi was a big blow and FF has not been the same without him. But the Gucc man's sensibilities were perfectly of their time and FF is at its best when traces of his influence can be felt, in my opinion, with games like Remake and Rebirth. But that's not really what younger gamers are going for, I think. FF is not violent, spastic, or risque enough for zoomers, and I actually like how conservative FF games are, particularly with dialogue and stories.
@@12ealDealOfficial Sakaguchi kind of shot himself in the foot, though, by making Spirits Within and trying to market it as a Final Fantasy work.
@@armorvilI don't want final fantasy to be baldurs gate 3. The thing is this track record makes no sense. They evolved the franchise and changed the combat systems. 12 13 15 16 all different combat systems. Quality of visuals going up. If it was just turn based it wouldn't have level that competes with modern rpgs. Witcher blows it out of water. Dragon dogma blow it out of the water. Souls series and all franchise fromsoft blow it out of the water. Even cyberpunk 2077 first person immersion can't be matched. Final fantasy was never about making choices. It was making good stories that made you feel emotional. They still delivering these types of games today. Every final fantasy game that has meant something to me was because of the stories. I could see next mainline gaming being a souls like. I could see another being more like kingdom hearts combat. I don't see your point you are trying to make.
I think the main issue was brought up around the 9 minute mark. SE needs to stop chasing the white whale of visual fidelity, and focus on creating a unique art style, similar to Dragon Quest.
Maximillian Dood put out a video about graphics not selling games anymore, and I think that's the problem with FF. Make a great game, and it's ok if the graphics aren't amazing.
Just look at Helldivers 2, Elden Ring, Zelda, and many of the best games released in the last few years. None of them are on the cutting edge of visual fidelity.
How much money is being wasted to look a little bit better?
Agreed, fidelity is not important for a game series like this. It carried it far, but now is the time to stylize and save money.
I do not agree that FF has to be AAA every time. That's nonsense. Type-0, FFD, and others exist. They do need to be clear about what we're getting, of course.
Type Zero was a spinoff
FFD was a mobile game spinoff
All the others that ARE mainline (flagship) titles DO need to be triple A (or AA at least)
That's the thing YOU and I don't agree. But when FF16 was initially shown, a lot of people were saying how bad it looks. For FF7 Rebirth a tweet went viral because Cloud doesn't look wet when he jumped into a river. Graphics and details may not affect me and you, but the general audience actually do care about this s**t.
Spinoff FFs are also FFs. Bravely Default is an FF by any other name. Not even every mainline FF has been bleeding edge technology. FF2 and FF3 (originally) recycled the majority of visual assets from their precursors.
FF isn't *just* games with chocobos and it isn't just AAA. "All and only AAA" is a delusional trap the game industry as a whole is tumbling into, not a fundamentally FF problem.
The problem in this discussion is that people act as if Final Fantasy during the PS3, PS2 and PS1 days were equivalent to what AAA games mean nowadays. AAA games as we have now literally didn't exist back then but for sure Final Fantasy was the closest you can get to a comparison because they were always on the tip of the spear when it came to pushing graphics forward and showcasing the console.
I agree that Final Fantasy games don't need to be AAA (in today's standards) because AAA nowadays = Red Dead Redemption 2 or God of War. But they 100% HAVE to find a way to blow our minds with the games. And the thing is... you don't need top technology to do that. Breath of the Wild blew people's minds, every new Xenoblade open world blows people's minds.
@@LimpingAuRa- There is an important difference between visual / style and graphics / technical optimization. It has to look good, it has to feel good and it has to work fine on a technical level. But they don't have to spend half of their money for the cellstructure on characters faces or hair. And there are more than enough games that proofed it.
By the way, this is not new. Square and its fans pumped up and hyped up the Final Fantasy brand so much that they made a MOVIE. That movie BOMBED so hard that it nearly bankrupted Square. That movie is called Final Fantasy the Spirits Within. Aki Ross from FF the Spirits Within even had a MAXIM cover of her in a bikini. That's how delusional these people are about the popularity of the FF brand. IT IS NOT THAT POPULAR. It amazes me they STILL haven't learned a thing after Square nearly went out of business by over-rating the popularity of FF.
I'm pretty sure the main reason why the movie bombed was because it was a mediocre and quiet frankly dull movie. It was definitely beautiful for it's time which critics praised. But the story itself was just nothing special. Quite honestly the movie might have done a bit better if they stuck to a more Final Fantasy esque plot rather then pure science fiction.
@@c.q.32 Exactly. That is my point about the Final Fantasy games in general. Mediocre games that critics praise because of graphics.
@Molybed1 Yeah graphics have been a big part of what makes a FF game stand out. Although I will argue that not every entry is mediocre, 6, 7, 9, 10 and 12 have a large fanbase. Quite honestly I feel like one of the bigger reasons why the brand doesn't do as hot is because of competition. Back then there weren't as many jrpgs that stood out. Nowadays you have too many options to choose from. Which only makes it harder for the ff brand to stand out.
@@Molybed1 Nah your point seemed to be to throw the blame on Square and...the fans(?) for hyping up the brand which doesn't make any sense. The movie was shit, that's why it bombed.
So which game is even more popular? Persona? Dragon Quest? If it's either of these...I know where you stand in the game community. Other than this, uhehohao
I fine with Square going only multi platform. I want them to succeed because them having success is better for everyone. I hate games like Genshin Impact but I have to admit that having a Square Enix theme Genshin Impact style game combining all Square IPs would be cool as hell.
So extremely shallow gameplay with anything significant hidden behind extremely shit RNG pulls that cost a fuck ton of money
They already have those style mobile games for final fantasy
@@fillerbunnyninjashark271 I would not be caught dead playing a mobile game that isn’t on a Switch
Wouldn't be for me I'd rather go back and play dissidia on PSP than a mobile but again I'll at least try it a bit.
They alr have FF14 and its the biggest final fantasy game ever.
As much as ppl dont like this tweet, it's actually the reality of current gaming induatry
FF isn't even really struggling as it's still one of the top selling jrpg series out there. Many other companies that make jrpgs would love to have FF's sale numbers. The problem is Square expecting unrealistic sales and bad budgeting.
Still the brand isn’t growing, and young players don’t care about FF. It could turn out to be a huge problem if they don’t reach new customers.
@@dreamer6737 FFXVI says otherwise. Many new players jump on to FF because of that game. Selling 3 million on a single console with a low install base doesn't just happen to a game that isn't attracting a bunch of people.
@@wood1066There are close to 60 million PS5s out in the wild after only 3 years of being on the market. Those are not great numbers. Younger gamers don’t care about jrpgs, they’re just playing fortnite and Roblox.
Is it unrealistic sales when you sell 3 millions but still lose money?
That was explained in the previous video.
@@jairekambui7738 Funny how when Persona and Yakuza sell 1 million across multiple systems it's considered a success and going mainstream, but when FF sells 3 million on just one all of a sudden "people don't care about jrpgs"
While i do believe it to be true that gamers in general spend more time and money on live service games, I dont believe there's a lot of crossover between the crowd that plays fortnite or even genshin impact and the core jrpg fan that would be interest in final fantasy vii rebirth, for example, so when squareenix makes something like foamstars, there's really not much reason to expect anything different from what end up happening: a game that doesn't appeal to either live service consumers OR squareenix fans
FF14 literally is their biggest game now. You guys nvr pay attention
I hate the idea of a live service consumer, that doesn't exist, it's all people who want to play a certain game, and are forced to deal with the fact it's a live service. FOMO also plays a huge part in it.
People didn't chose to play Genshin or Fortnite because there's a battle pass in it.
Well, they could make at least $100+ from me if they'd release the second installment of the 7 remake and 16 on Steam and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I'm not buying a console for a single game any more.
Preach
Glad I got all the consoles and some
Contrary, I buy a console because I don't want to spend $3000 on a gaming PC. I only play weebshit so I have zero need for the $20 for ten hours of a good time model on steam, and I prefer physical releases for game preservation reasons. I'm a very picky gamer, western and flavor-of-the-moment PC gaming doesn't interest me in my adult life, at all.
But I feel you. Just because that's the experience I want, doesn't mean people who play on other platforms shouldn't be able to experience these things, too.
Exclusivity hurts, especially as the gap between console/PC capability closes in. Just let everyone eat their cake.
So then spend 500-600 on a PC and play your weeb shit
@@fillerbunnyninjashark271 cost to value isn't there with optimized hardware. I couldn't play Rebirth on PC with a $500 build and also, the PS5s SSD controller is superior to anything available.
And agan... Physical media, true game ownership, convenience of plug in and it works, optimized for my tv.
Steam sucks unless you're into flavor of the moment western games bro its built for a different kind of gamer.
"The ff brand is suppose to be a spectacular 100+ hour AAA journey"
No, its not supposed to be that, and never was. Dont even think there is a 100+ hour FF game besides the mmo ones. The idea games need to be 100+ hours though is a recent idea and one that needs to die. Games are getting ridiculously long and never justify that length.
Action games use to be 8-20 hours and jrpgs use to be 30-50. I'll gladly take the 45h of FF 1-13 over the 80h of rebirth or any 100+ hour jrpg. Go smaller.
Exactly this. The older games were fun, rarely boring, and rarely padded for length. If I play through a short game multiple times for fun, it's a lot better than struggling through a 100 hour grind of side quests and padded story.
They alr tried that with octopath and bravely, and that only sold for like 2million copies lifetime.
This is not what you personally like, this is abt the market. Even the most successful indie games tend to have infinite replayabilities: stardew valley, hades, that bootleg pokemon EA game.
@@Centrioless tried what? make a 40h rgp? And? You know not every game is successfull right? This game was shorter and didnt sell too much doesnt mean much when lots of games are longer and also dont sell much and every game is different.
Also replayability is what I want. a 100h game is a one and done, while a 40h game has replayability. Will actually put 200h into a 40h game vs the 100h of a 100h game.
make it short and worth replaying, not long and not worth ever playing again.
Also as of sept 2022 Octopath traveler has sold 3 million copies, but even if we only go with 2 that's a big success. It's actually a better success than Rebirth, because 3.5m is all rebirth is projected to sell over the next 4 years, and it cost a hell of a lot less to make.
The Return on investement on Octopath is 4-5x what it was on ff16 remake or rebirth
@@redbearington3345 funny how you talked abt how not evry game is supposed to be successful, but cant apply the same logic to FF16 and FF7r (which heavily hindered by console exclusivity). 2 FF games before those two literally sold almost 10million copies (crazy what having bigger userbase does to sale numbers).
Octopath 2 didnt sell 3millions copies. Lmao wth. Next time you google something, go read the entire news first 🤦♂️
Dum bishh
@@redbearington3345 tried making 30h jrpg. It sold only 2million. You guys tried to make it like its a recipe for success, when it's NOT. It took them 5years to reach what FF7r sold in less than in a month. And you pretend like FF7r is a huge failure.
Not to mention, if you look back two titles before these ps5 exclusives, they literally sold almost 10million copies.
Then when they tried to scale down the company (wth do you think all those layoffs are for), you scrutinize them. Listening ppl like you are literally the worst thing squenix needs to do.
And..... the most hilarious part of this is their biggest game (of all time) is actually an MMO. A liveservice game.
If video games go to $100 minimum I'm done with gaming. The problem in gaming is the greed of shareholders and board members who don't give a damn or even play video games. Take notes from Hollywood...just because you throw massive budgets at something doesn't mean it will be good.
You don't need to be done with gaming, just start looking back instead of forward. And of course, indies.
@@Ocean5ix Good point
Video games are much cheaper nowadays comoared to the 90ies if you account for inflation. And the mext argument is that no one is forced to buy games on release. Most of the games aren't even out of their beta phase when they're released nowadays anyway 😂
@@martinbelmonte6774our inflation is getting worse. The 90s were better, the average consumer could afford expensive games. Now, the average consumer cannot afford them.
Just ignore AAA games. Many of them aren’t even finished when they first release.
Plenty of AA, Indie, and retro games to enjoy for a more affordable price.
I haven't spent a dollar on Genshin, I avoid it like the plague. I avoid all of its inspirers and derivatives because I can see the skinner-box design meant to manipulate the worst parts of our psyche, and I'm self-aware enough to know I can fall prey to them. My Magic The Gathering Arena collection is a testament to that. Lord knows I will spend a decent chunk of change when the FF cards show up there.
I bought Forspoken Special Edition as soon as it was available on PC for steam. I have most of Team Asano Catalogue on steam. I have been playing and paying my FF14 sub on PC since Stormblood. I got FF7Remake and KH collection on EGS before they were on steam, and got 7R again on steam and will prolly get the KH games again. I have been doing everything I can to vote with my wallet and tell Square "I as a PC gamer want to purchase and play your games on PC". And I know I'm just one guy and can't have any real influence because of that, but goddamn is it frustrating to watch 16 and 7Rebirth come out and "PC edition later".
I still remember when Yoshi-P was trying to peddle this idea that 16 is only possibly on PS5 (absolute BS). I'm still waiting for Dragon Quest The Dark Prince for steam. My one ray of hope is Square's recent public statement to renewed focus on multi-platform releases with an emphasis on PC. It's frustrating to do the whole "vote with your wallet" thing, but the rest of the world pulls a different way. I don't want Square to make their own Genshin-game. I want them to continue making quality single-player rpg experiences. All the signs point to single-player FF experiences coming to an end.
I am not a console gamer. Haven't been since the PS2's original release and even then I was playing more on PC than Consoles. I was hype for FF7 Rebirth, expecting it for PC this time, but nooope. I'll have to just hope they can release FF7Rebirth to PC in a year or so, I guess, but it might not even get that if Sony doesn't get theirs for sales. Here's hoping, though. I also wanted Dragon Quest The Dark Prince, too, as I thought it looked super interesting!
I know unrelated to Square-Enix, but I also was super disappointed Unicorn Overlord was basically confirmed to 'never' come to PC. I was so excited for that game, too...
Genshin is actually a quality single-player RPG. Did you know how badly gacha games were viewed before? But despite being a gacha game, Genshin broke that stigma because of how good of a game it is. Yes, it has gacha elements. Yes, it has daily activities. But you don't have to do those. The story and the gameplay are good and on par with some AAA games out there. The exploration is fun. The music and the environment design are amazing. It's like a AAA game with gacha elements that you can totally ignore. You can't judge it and dismiss it as crap if you haven't tried it.
@@Quinz128 Yeah, I think Square Enix was incredibly stupid giving Sony that kind of exclusivity deal. If the game isn't wildly successful, then the game may never go to other platforms and get more copies sold.
@@gemgem-hl7ii the story isn't good but I agree otherwise.
@@jjojon7072 I think the story has parts that are not good but overall it's good. But if you really disagree with that, then I respect that. After all, the story really is a bit divisive compared to the other aspects of the game. At least you agree with the rest lol.
Jacob is a remarkable, amazing human being. Rendering so much to be so understandable for everyone. I am very grateful for his incites.
I offer on correction though, on his understanding about AI and game development. As most futurists, including Ray Kurzweil who's been eerily accurate in all his predictions about the rise of AI since the 1990's (and is quoted by most other futurists and scientists), now put AGI (artificial general intelligence) at around 2027; AI will be used to radically reduce costs long before then, as it already is. For better (a 50 million dollar budget can be stretched into a 200 million - 1 billion dollar budget), and worse (job loss; not just artists, but devs too, and even AI/deep learning engineers, on a scale we haven't seen in living memory and likely ever will again). AI is used inside every 4000 series Nvidia chip to reduce the computational load of every rgb pixel of every frame, by an enormous factor; and that's with draconian AI relative to the current state of affairs and acceleration. The PS5 Pro will have machine learning hardware native built for the same reason. SE already used AI for facial animations in Rebirth. Additionally, the copy-write issues are a non factor as SE would be training their AI models on their own data, which they did for Rebirth's animations. The headaches of AI aren't headaches in the hands of someone who builds them. They are much like Unreal Engine 5, except they allow an unprecedented level control for the artist & dev, as the what's possible becomes what is limited only by the imagination.
Where I think the confusion lies is AI is being crossed with GenAI, which includes what everyone is familiar with; ChatGPT and AI Art. That is a very small portion of where AI comes into affect.
AI isn't a panacea and will create new, very large, human problems for humans to solve, but it will solve the human problem of budget by an increasingly massive margin.
This.
I dunno, I think he's a bit wrong in some of his ideas and data. I.E. live service games are a limited market nowadays and not the way forward. There can only be so many that can do well in the market, so you have to make a really good one to beat one of the competitors right now. I hear more live service games failing than succeeding. While, those that succeed do so big time, it requires a lot of manpower, time, and money to make a live service game and the odds of that live service game becoming successful is not very high compared to the costs and potential losses in my opinion.
@@urazz7739 Fair enough, thank you for updating me!
Idk what the answer is, but Square Enix needs to find that Capcom formula. If DD2 is a success with 3 million (multi-platform) copies sold, then FF games need to find a way to be successful at 3 million copies sold as well.
Valid for ff16 but rebirth didnt even hit 3mil yet im afraid
@@Blast_S_rank_1 FF16 failed tremendously, it is basically a Uncharted/God of War/Spiderman but the Final Fantasy version in order to acquire a new audience of gamers to push Final Fantasy sales up, yet FF16's sales continued the downwards spiral and all we got left with is a mediocre game and they didn't even grow the franchise.
You can play Bayonetta/DMC for a better action game, any RPG in the world for a a better RPG game because FF16's RPG mechanics are equivalent to Fortnite's, I'd even say FF13's story is better than 16. The only good thing to happen is, they probably won't let the team behind FF16 work on another single player mainline again.
@@Blast_S_rank_1Rebirth is a sequel on a new console with lower amount of consoles sold.... Rebirth attachment rate to total PS5 solds is far higher than PS4. Solo what does that mean? Top heads at Square Enix fu**** up on the forecast. So this is a top management issue. New CEO seems to know this, and is making drastic changes so now we need to see with their next announcements projects and how that end up "profitable" on the balance sheet
@@pokemonrandom6081 i liked ff16 more than rebirth maybe im crazy idc
I think it probably has hit 3 m.
Rebirth sold more than DD2 in both Europe and Japan while DD2 did better in NA. They are probably really close to each other in sales.
the fandom is also seriously split (in multiple ways) on what it wants, so SE is hearing a bunch of conflicting things. i am a 34-yr-old fan of the ff7,8,tactics,9, and 10 era. i thought ff16 sucked and that all it had going for it was the incredible boss battles and spectacle, but i LOVE the 7R games and even liked ff15 for the most part. a decent chunk of the fandom totally disagrees with me and sees ff16 as amazing. some people aren't even liking the 7R games. and unfortunately, this really is a feast or famine situation. i bought 16 day one to support them, good or bad, and i'm glad they tried something, but i didn't like it and i don't what that again. lots of others do want that. if they get what they want, and 17 is similar, that's years of development and resources poured into a whole ff game, which is years and dev/resources NOT going to what i want. so the fandom is literally fragmented and adversarial right now, and SE has to choose whom to please, because they can't afford to please everybody.
This is dang near spot on I'm about to turn 35 and have a similar taste for FF except for tactics I'm terrible at tactics game, but I also enjoyed type 0 but I'm sure many didn't like all fan bases.
i'm with you, bro. FF16 is NOT AMAZING. it's a well rounded game. graphics, OST, gameplay (specially combat), it has more adult themes... This game seems like it could actually be a homerun if they didnt run on a schedule and budget. Thats the feeling I get when I play 16. Its not bad, but it just could be so much better bcuz it has potential. Huge fan of the OGs here. Hope they can get back on track. My friend who introduced me to the FF world always said that "Square knows how to use the FF series as a cashcow" and I totally disagree. It feels like they've been running on luck all these years and now that it finally ran out, they are bumping heads with each other to get it right again. By now games like FF7, 8, 9 and 10 should at least have an anime. or another CG movie like Advent Children. but they dont care. they're out there tryna grind money off remakes which the only people who care about are us old gamers. they failed to capture new audience's views and failed miserably. its pretty sad actually for the time. becuz the product is amazing. but the company behind it seems lazy, bro. hope they can turn this around in the near future.
Hard agree
FF16 did not sucked dude. Please explain why and dont give your bias personal taste. Do yourself a favor and re educate yourself, and stop being on games that makes your brain uncapable of being in focus
@@CesarWKVE Dude, its not a bad game, move on. Can you stop being a complete bs fool and grow up, the game is good. Your the problem, people dont like the old gameplay. Re educate yourself.
i don't agree that FF need to be AAA only; there's rrom for stylized FFs, retro looking FFs, and AA looking FFs, looking like a DQ or ninokuni. many FF fans have nostagia of classic FFs, from snes to ps1 to ps2 graphics; i think square should try different styles of FFs and see what is profitable relating to investment. this also means more creative room for square developpers
We get tons of low budget FFs though. XII-2, LR, Type O, crystal chronicles, world of ff, etc
@@Swillo type0 is the only one i would consider a proper FF done on AA budget, the rest are more like throw away wish FFs, ... by today’s standards, doing FF9 ps1 style but with ninokuni graphics is closer to what i’m talking about
@@Swillo I think the newest of those is like 8 years old.
This is the slow burn version of why we can't have nice things. I too played Honkai 3 four years ago. I must have sunk in easily two AAA games worth's of money into it before I just quit. It was the months of rolling gatchas only to see my characters get outdated. There were getting too many characters for me to care about them all, and the story just kept going and going and going. Don't get me wrong, the plot of Honkai Impact 3 can get very epic, real, and touching at times. Hell, I was even moved to tears at some points. If Honkai 3 was turned into an anime or manga series with a set story with a definite ending, it would become one of the greatest anime/manga series ever, but it's not.
It's a gatcha game, and the gatcha has to keep going on in order to keep the revenue stream going forever and ever. It's a drug, or a gambling machine designed to suck away tiny chunks of player's money for the ever next dopamine hit. Once the cultural zeitgeist catches on to this business model, it may crash, and crash hard. Meanwhile gatcha will do its collateral damage like choking out studios like Square Enix until amazing single-player JRPGs die out.
Thats why i quit GI, my fav characters were all 4 stars, idc, i want THEM and if the games going to become a CHORE to play because im not paying 500 bucks to get some 5 stars to REPLACE MY FAVS then i guess itll be a chore, and boring.
This whole topic is honestly tiring. Give it a couple months or a year or two and Rebirth will sit at a predictable 5/6 mil just like Remake, just like 16 etc
But these sales conjectures are always used and/or hijacked by people with an ulterior motive. They aren’t happy with what FF is/what a specific title’s direction is/hate FF in general/or the platform its released on exclusively.
Its tiring. Sure its not selling high numbers. But its also not Spiderman or God of War. Its selling exactly how much you would expect a PS5 exclusive FF to sell. All these ‘experts’ in the comment sections or on Twitter be damned.
I agree. People are just complaining for the sake of complaining. Give it some time. It’ll be fine in the end.
You are in the denial stage of grief. Rebirth will sell more over time and generate profit but with discounts and quickly diminishing returns on both sales and returns per sale.
But as explained, that’s just not enough to justify AAA FF dev for shareholders. The ROI for the amount of time the money was invested is just not there.
@@vangmxI’m tired of the complainers it’s like dealing with a pregnant female
They also need to release it on PC ASAP if they really want to get more copies sold.
Denial is the first stage.
Don't forget that Square Enix has tried to milk FF VII for decades, producing numerous awful games and crossovers. The core fanbase was established during the FF VII, VIII, IX, and X era. Since then, many of their games have been disappointing. You might disagree, but the numbers don't lie.
FF VII Rebirth is truly an amazing game, but the franchise’s reputation won’t recover for years. I feel bad for the developers because they have to face the consequences of the “Fabula Nova Crystallis” fiasco.
My old FF friends were actually suprised how good the remakes are. After atwo decades we are kind of used to disappointing FF games. And im not interested in FF 14 mmo. Ive tried it. It must be a very good MMO but it has not much to do with true Final Fantasy feeling.
Ff7 is not even in the fabula nova crystalis
XIII is more popular than these VII sequels.
@@phrofile3613 They're not saying it is, they're pointing out a lot of the complaints and controversies of the FNC era has hurt the brands' name enough to impact the likelihood of people taking the risk of buying a game if it has the Final Fantasy name. Like them or hate them, the 13 trilogy, Type-0, and Final Fantasy 15 and its many required DLC and sub-series all had major elements to them or their development cycle that made them very divisive to large chunks of their own fanbase.
As long as you don't think of it as an FF game, i'd say 14 is good lol. But i agree. After X, FF is just bad...
I can’t. This guys voice feels artificial.
Maybe it could help SE if it went the way Capcom is going (Resident Evil Remake titles). For example, instead of the ff7 trilogy for which we have to wait X-Y years, they will make one big game with 4 CDs like in the past
Maybe they shouldve just made it available on all platforms. The best way to experience a story is through whatever you have. No restrictions.
I was lpannign to be a day 1 buyer, full price, just to show SE my support of YP...
and then they do this nonsense...
theres now a ff14 and ff16 collab event... and i dont care... because i CANT play ff16... ff is not a sony exclusive, and ff14 would also NOT be on my list of games if it ever was or became a sony exclusive.
There is no mystery as to why the company isnt hitting their targets.
When your entire strategy is to release a semi-niche game exclusively on a single console that over half of its potential player base has given up on purchasing because scalpers have kept the price so damn high for the first three years of its run, your sales figures are not going to be great. Want them to kick back up? Release it on everything. Really happy to see they finally picked up on this.
Console exclusivity was never the issue , in fact it is sometimes the better decision NSP already mentioned it in the previous video from the other thread , you'll have to accept that single player games are going to disappear because its no longer sustainable and has become extremely volatile.
Seriously, PS4 / PS5 release like they did with FF7 remake. And go to PC fast if not just outright release it on PC at the same time.
FF used to sell consoles. Now people are comfortable passing on it if it’s not on their existing machine. That’s the real issue.
@@forevergogo You're delusional if u think realsing on other platfoms is gonna cut it clearly u haven't been paying much attention.
@@arustyitalianhairyasscheek5305Releasing on other platforms is definitely a good decision to make I'm not sure why you think otherwise. Square is missing a massive market ignoring pc players.
BRING BACK SQUARESOFT!
Everything in this video also seems like it's a good answer to a particular question I've heard along the lines of "Hey, why not just remake beloved game X? Everyone loved beloved game X back in the day, therefore re-releasing it with some modern-day polish would be easy money in the bank, right?" Nope, it's not for all the same reasons (and more) that it's so difficult to make a new FF title. Perfectionism has an extreme price tag.
FF7 is a historic piece of gaming artwork. The sales maybe hurt now but overtime a FF7 bundle with three discs will definitely be a good asset, in the future overtime. As a father such as myself, I can’t afford chapter bits of the whole story. Time wise and money wise.
Just (re)play the original. Story-wise the remake isn't a remake anyway. Ironic that the OG is the best "re-" chapter of the saga.
You know...
FF7 Replay
@@VitoVitonerLanci I got the FF7 app lol
It's great but man, I had to watch the ending on CZcams by Chapter 11 because I was beginning to doubt how much I really wanted to do all the side quests, and the completionist in me can't bear to skip anything. The game is great but it is just too damn long for an adult with a family to chip away at. If I played 6 hours a week, I'd be at 11 weeks and counting just trying to finish it. I can play through FF8 or FFX in a weekend without doing monster arena stuff.
@@12ealDealOfficial Ahh FFX, a man of culture!
"Final fantasy almost has an obligation to be AAA," is kind of a stupid thing to say.
It does though.
If FF17 comes out looking like a game on par with Kai no Kiseki, you and everyone who says "gRaPhIcS dOnT matter" will shit yourselves in confusion and start to wonder of Square has lost their marbles. Game companies DO pay attention to online game sentiments when they release their marketing trailers. Go look at the comments on any of Falcoms Teails games for PS4/5 and you'll see comments saying they need to get with the times graphically.
Comments on videos like this mean nothing to them because it's not in a centralized location where they can evaluate public reception.
@@RaifSeverence yep, FF biggest games have always been a graphic showcase.
@@Centrioless well I can only speak for my self when it comes to graphics but if Final Fantasy did release a title with a graphical downgrade I personally wouldn't care. I wouldn't however say they don't matter in every case, but there are other things that are just as important if not more so.
Sez you
I find the explanation unconvincing. Why isn't this supposed trend affecting Nintendo at all, for example? Or Capcom? Or Fromsoft? Or CD Projekt?
There are a whole bunch of single player AAA developers who are doing better than ever. It's just that Square Enix is unfortunately not one of them at the moment.
But MH alr follow liveservice model with their content updates. It's not even a SP game
Cp2077 was planned to have online mode ala gta5
@@Centrioless Planned to, but didn't.
answer is simple final fantasy isnt gaining fans instead even its loyal fans arent intersted in games anymore. Capcom gained fans from monster hunter world fromsoft did with elden ring cd projekt did with witcher 3 even persona increased its fanbase answer is simple they were still stick to playstation whereas all these companies used a multiplatform approach saw increase in sales and fans
CD Projekt already killed it's reputation with Cyberpunk. Fromsoft it's having inner cult like following and mindset when it comes to their fanbase, and they still aren't mainstream that much. As for Capcom .. they are indeed a mixed bag. Nintendo does more bank on selling their hardware, so it's less software only focus.
Cyberpunk was a complete dumpsterfire that was promised to be many things, and was none of them. Pretty much should be a definition of scam.
It's really true.
I just completed my third year of university, and our capstone project this year was to make a small, completed game. We had eight months to work on it, and I can confirm that everything will go wrong before it goes right.
We also may have gotten a little overambitious as, by the time we got to April of this year, we had cut out about 50% of what we had initially planned for in our GDD (Game Development Document.)
It's difficult work, and that project wasn't even a year.. I can't even imagine keeping my sanity working on a single game for 7-10 years
Yeah, same for me when I was finishing college. Still, I really wish we had another go at it, it was a fun time.
Very simple; we haven't had a good FF title in over 20 years, and its starting to catch up...
So what was FF7 REBIRTH?
@@steeltown2946 Rebirth sounds like it was a fairly decent game, though I wouldn't personally know, since Remake filtered me out with its multiverse storyline.
@@captainthunderbolt7541 yeah, and you never gave it a chance. So why are you here ?
@@steeltown2946 What is your problem? I was agreeing with you, you absolute spanner! 🤡
i really disagree on that one. i absolutely loved LR, 16 and rebirth.
If they wanna sell more first thing to do is let people know that FF even exist..
Im still wondering why there is not a FF skin in Fortnite yet. Even Yoshitaka Amano already made a collab with Fortnite 🤷
12:09 The simple fact of the matter is that a single player game by the name of Hogwarts Legacy was the highest selling video game of 2023 at selling over 22 million copies.
And it was not an outlier.
Elden Ring was the 2nd highest selling (single player) video game in 2022 at over 13 million copies sold.
God of War Ragnarok grabbed the 5th Place Spot for sales that very same year. And it was only available on one platform. Which makes its achievement super-impressive!
Controversy aside,.....Hogwarts was extremely mid..
A better comparison would be how much did those games cost compared to the units sold.
God of War was available on 2 platforms. one of them being ps4...one of the highest selling consoles of all time
Please shut up
@@sheercold26 PS4 and PS5 are same platform.....
The ROI on live service still eclipses that of hogwarts. WB is even doubling down on live service after HL
NSP mentioned previously that the old FF entries used to reuse alot of mechanics from previous entries. Look at I - VI. Or VII - IX.... maybe SE needs to go back to this. Stop trying to reinvent the wheel every single time
I'd much rather a shorter amazing game than a longer one that drags on. I was sick of FF16 forced myself to finish it lol but loved it at first. It was so hollow in the end though. Most older FF games could be completed in 20-40 hours and that's perfectly fine to me. They only get massive when you do all the extras.
Also, if FF does start costing double that will end it for me. Same if they keep doing gacha/mobile games or Genshin clones. I usually buy every FF game on release but if this is the way it goes then I won't be so I hope this isn't the future lol.
They need to release Rebirth on PC. I hope enough people buy it to turn around the results!
I could and would pay a lot more for a 9/10 game, evidenced by me buying a game like Persona 5 on every platform I own. The problem, then, is finding such a game without buying a dozen 6/10 games that I will either play once, or not finish at all. If the games all cost $200 to begin with, I'm going to be much less willing to even try most of those games.
As for Final Fantasy specifically? I don't think the franchise has produced a game on the level of Persona 5 in a long time. Nothing that has grabbed me in the same way. Octopath Traveler 2 grabbed me right away, but I'm a member of a specific audience that kind of prefers that.
As for Live Services? Selling crack would generate a lot of money. Gambling mechanics generate a lot of money. Addictions make a lot of money for dealers. The monetization should be regulated. But it's a gold rush right now so I'm not surprised everyone wants in on it.
I think I'm gonna have to stay retro going forward.
I'm currently playing FF6 with retro-achievements haha. It's great fun.
Retroarch on XSX is a good time. I can't believe I find myself "taking breaks" from new games to play older, shorter, or indie games, but new AAA stuff is just too damn long.
"To that end, you cannot make an 20 hour, AA Final Fantasy and have it still be Final Fantasy..."
"...The FF brand is supposed to be a spectacular, 100+ hour AAA journey."
And that is a huge reason why FF is underperforming as a franchise. There is absolutely room for a 20 hour AA and even 'high-end' FF experience-- Square is just being Square and arbitrarily staying in a lane they created themselves. If they think FF dies as a brand the moment their games aren't 100+ hours they deserve the lack of interest they're getting.
"...we need to admit that a larger portion of players today prefer service games and are voting with their wallets and time, playing titles like Genshin Impact instead."
Where is the $60 version of Genshin Impact that includes all the heroes, cosmetics, weapons, etc. being sold? Oh, right...nowhere. You can only buy the opportunity to get bits and pieces of things you actually want after spending hundreds if not thousands. So you don't actually have a choice. If publishers give the option to A) buy live-service game outright with everything for a set price or b) pay nothing upfront and deal with microtransactions that argument would hold up.
Ignoring the unhelpful "you do have an option just don't buy it and play something else", if you want to participate in Genshin Impact, you have no choice but to buy into the game's microtransactions with your time and/or money. And that's true for any live service obviously not just that game.
I personally feel Novak is pretty out of date on what he's saying. Like live service games are not exactly thriving. For every live service game that is successful, there are like 10 that fail. It's a limited market on how many live service games can do well at once in my opinion so you either got to be entertaining enough to draw people away from other live service games.
The biggest game of this year, helldivers 2 is literally a liveservice game.
Squenix biggest game ever, FF14 is literally a liveservice game.
Capcom biggest game, MH literally follows liveservice model.
The biggest game ever, GTA 5 literally abandoned its sp xpac for liveservice model.
I could go on forever on this thing
For every successful indies, there are tons and tons of indie flop
@@urazz7739 The only live service game I play is Dota2, I dont have time for any other. Meanwhile on the side I can play throught Heores of Might and Magic III Horn of the Abiss, or Hyperdimension Neptunia Rebirth1, and even then havent had the time for The Elder Scrolls III Morrowind for a while.
@@Centrioless "The biggest game of this year, helldivers 2 is literally a liveservice game." Ive never heard of any helldivers2. Gamers arent a homogenus group, every game isnt for everyone.
"Squenix biggest game ever, FF14 is literally a liveservice game." Never played that game either...
"Capcom biggest game, MH literally follows liveservice model." Again, never head of neither the company nor there game.
"The biggest game ever, GTA 5 literally abandoned its sp xpac for liveservice model." Never played GTA5 either.
"I could go on forever on this thing" And you will find that the only live service game Ive ever palyed is Dota2.
"For every successful indies, there are tons and tons of indie flop" And for every 10 sucessfully indies a AAA company goes under from being too safe and not having published anything fun in decades.
It would help if Squenix releases games on PC at the same time i rather they a bit longer and make that happen
I think a massive problem is set , scenery, ff16 impressive graphics that take place in a small desert village. Old castle ruins and the forest, in my opinion this is also another reason why ff16 is failing look at ff10s world or Ff12 man even ff13 world, all of them capture the fantasy well. Ff15 is where a major drop in the scenery happens a bland open world using the highest graphics with the best cutscenes. But at the end of the day, grass is grass. The new game, in my opinion, should be linear with an open world aspect. That way, enix can tell a more convincing story with the world as well as through the characters.
With the FF7 Remake project, several factors were already in play when the first game was launched but become more acute with sales dropping off between Remake Part 1 and Part 2.
In hindsight there’s a number of factors that were always going to have a downward effect on sales. Not to be dramatic but it’s akin to a death by a thousand cuts.
1. PS launch exclusivity.
2. Portion of fans dissatisfied with Remake not being a ‘Remake’, results in a drop off of people staying on after Part 1
3. Length of time between games. Some people just stop gaming.
4. Barrier to entry for people who weren’t there from the start. Intimidating to new players trying to make heads or tails of the general story.
5. Cost of games; people can’t buy everything, they have to choose between platforms and other titles that compete for share of wallet.
Honestly, this right here. It also doesn't help that PCs are becoming way more affordable over time than consoles while having way more benefits.
"Yeah, a PC might still cost up to 1000$ minimum. And that isn't including upgrades or expansions to the PCs." But it is worth more than a console, that has pretty much locked everything. Most people rather have freedom to play on something that isn't subscription dependent either. And if it is a sub, something easy to keep track of. Console exclusivity seriously needs to die for a group like SE.
Most people, are NOT going to go out of their way to buy a system for one game. I have a PS5, I regret buying it because it... really isn't impressive.
"You have Demon's Souls... and that's pretty much all I had interest in." And hell, I have Part 2, and I just.... I put it down so fast.
If I wanted a massive World with Quest that make use of the entire world, I'd just play Xenoblade on the Switch. Or Dragonquest 11 S on the PC.
I like what I played of part 2... but the level of investment it wants is frankly insane. "You want most players... to buy a console... then the game... for just one... game?" That's not economically sound even to the most diehard. Factor taxes in... And you are damn near paying for a PC Tower. But one you are legally unable to optimize. Oh yeah, and you can only use Sony approved controllers... So if that stops working, another 70$. When for 80, I can get a controller on PC that never has drift, replaceable buttons, Gyro, Haptics, and Hyperlink... four extra buttons.. Oh, and it can be used on Phone and or Switch. Oh, system stops working and you didn't pay for monthly sub on top of your internet bill... just so you can get your save back up? Great, now you can start over!
PC might not be absolutely perfect. But it is preferable than how Consoles Nickle and Dime you at every turn. It's literally no wonder people are fleeing to the Free to Play Market.
Also the fact that Rebirth is gated behind players already finishing Remake, which was significantly worse.
Or at least this is what I understand to be the case after talking with friends. After all the multi-universe BS of Remake, I chose not to buy Rebirth.
Rebirth sounds much better to me as a game than Remake was, but I am not interested in the story it is attempting to tell.
@@captainthunderbolt7541 From what I understand, that is untrue. You just have more extras from importing a save, owning part 1 is not mandatory. Having played Part 1, is not mandatory.
Despite not playing Rebirth as much, it does play better than Remake by just building on top of what part 1 was.
Either way, I am having Buyer's remorse. "I should have waited for a PC port."
@@CosmicChris No one is going to play part two without first playing part one.
@@captainthunderbolt7541 Lmao, you'd be surprised. I have a few friends who only want to play Part 2 for the combat. They do not care for story.
Also, that isn't what I was addressing initially. You players are "gated behind players already finishing Remake" which, makes no sense.
Nobody is being gated. If you have a PS5, and want to jump straight into Rebirth, nothing is stopping you. Or can wait for a PC version. The only thing gating people from playing it, is console exclusivity, and finances.
Remember when FF16 came out and they had creators make videos like “what even IS final fantasy? They’re all different in some ways, it can be anything.” And now in this vid it’s “well if we don’t do XYZ and spend a billion dollars and bloat content, then it’s not even a Final Fantasy” which is it?
Can it not be both? Remember the actual statement was final fantasy is whatever the director/producer wants it to be. But the high ups also want it to be of a certain quality.
@@NerdAtWork it’s whatever is useful for the argument in a given moment. Same with Rebirth or 16. People will cape for it because it’s Squenix and people want the nepotism that comes with it
lmao
This Jacob man not the one who said FF can be everything.
This thread just showing his thoughts, and even not showing any prove.
I think they are way to worried about the AAA graphics for Final Fantasy. You can make an incredible fantasy world with AA graphic. See Nier Automata.
Honestly, those pixel remasters were some of the best games ive played recently, my point is, it doesnt have to be AAA for it be amazing!
I played some of the "7/10 or 8/10" games, they weren't. Diofield had glaring issues, Star Ocean 6 had glaring issues, Valkyrie had glaring issues, and they shouldn't complain when the release them all in a short span. Even FFXVI the 10/10 has issues.
Neo twewy was a fantastic game and it sold like shit. These games are not cannibalizing each other and they’re not failing because they’re bad games. There’s simply not a lot of interest in jrpgs anymore. Especially in franchises that aren’t well known or established like Valkyrie, twewy and star ocean, or new IP like Diofield. Star ocean 6 in particular has issues but it was considered a decent game and the best game in the series since the PS2.
@@jairekambui7738 How many games did they release in that short time? I'm not sure if 6 is better than 4, people might like it more because of the dual protagonists like in 2 but I'm finding 4 better, even if I'm annoyed that stuff everyone is annoyed about. And why do you think people aren't interested in JRPGs right now?
XVI was definitely not 10/10. It was an empty vapid game made for empty vapid people.
16 is vastly far from a 10/10. It's a 6.5-7 at best. It's shallow as hell and feels nothing like ff prior.
@@Lamasis2 You really think those games would’ve sold significantly better if they weren’t packed so close? If people were really interested in them, copies would be sold eventually. No one cared though. Jrpg sales have gone up but compared to the massive scale of the industry, the genre has absolutely stagnated for many of the reasons mentioned in this video. This isn’t just a square problem, it’s a jrpg issue. The audience is shrinking because there is a ridiculous amount of entertainment out there that you could be getting involved with instead of playing the latest jrpg. I expect this to continue.
People that put soo much hours and money into service style games SHOULD be ashamed for liking soulless cash grabs. Artistic, soulful, complete games should be the standard and the most successful. What does one expect though considering many people are soulless robots these days.
Square needs to make Final Fantasy Classic series, a smaller turned based jrpg with sprites, to fill out the off years from the mainline action series, then they can keep all fanbases happy. They should announce: ff17 action, ff18 online, ff Classic, and ff7r3 they can release one each year while Classic games and online games keep the money coming in. Then get another team working on smaller new ip games which can be turned into bigger games if they take off and if not it wasn't super expensive to try.
I don't play online games You wrong The reason why don't sale much is because ff7 is PlayStation, 5 exclusive. The need to sale the game all platforms like Xbox steam the mew nintendo switch 2
I would love a 3D final fantasy game with the ACTUAL Amano art style. Imagine how striking that would look then generic anime characters.
That would be unbelievably awesome, especially with pre rendered backgrounds.
They just messed up with exclusivity, ellse Rebirth would have sold like crazy, just like Hogwarts Legacy or Baldurs Gate that were available in every platform. PS5 exclusive games will def not make much, many ppl couldn't get a PS5 past few years and have now gotten more into Steam. feel bad for Rebirth, it is a masterpiece, makes me look forward to more remakes of oldies, especially FF9
Speaking to the points regarding the work of making a game, I see this as just the nature of any art. I’m a writer, and a book may go through dozens of iterations before I wver start writing…and then again once I start putting words down. Creating a story where every (or at least most) parts work together is very, very hard-dare I say almost impossible. The fact that it ever gets done and sometimes ends up as something special is unbelievable. Making a game, where not only does the narrative, characters, visuals, and audio have to all work, but also the gameplay, which has to compliment all those other elements, is also very, VERY hard.
Art is creation and recreation. It is a series of successive failures, until you fail as little as possible.
Bring back around 30-50 hour, turn based, barely any side quests but still open world. Ff best when it fast paced
16 was a boring mess. It wasnt even a JRPG let alone an RPG and not even a Final Fantasy game.
They messed up so much with 16 that it damaged the brand.
they've been damaging the brand since FF13. Maybe even FF12 if you didn't like the gameplay.
@@armorvil XII was still a final fantasy game, (set in Ivalice) 13 was less final fantasy, but it was still a JRPG. XV brought some old magic back but changed the combat system into action. 16 feels it is ashamed of being a final fantasy and is trying to insult the fans.
FF16 is your bogeyman
I just did a quick inflation calculator run. Super Mario World came out in 1990 for $50. Adding in inflation, for the month of April 2024, the same game would cost $124.06 today. This is crazy.
I agree, that wages have not caught up to the recent inflation increase. $70 is already hard to justify. But after seeing all this, it seems like all games today are being sold as a loss right out the gate.
its the same song and dance as 360 era. square chasing call of duty sales they will never get
I loved octopath- I wish there was more like it
Maybe it is down to the fact Square Enix does not care for the original fans?
Funny how after 20years of not caring abt em, we still dont have jrpg heavy hitters. Squenix was right for ignoring the "original" fans
@@Centrioless Some of us move on to bigger better games, Square Enix does not want our money.
@@Centrioless Also I just pirate every Square Enix title I can, no point in giving them money when they make poor games.
Nah, squenix was correct in abandoning TB jrpg peeps. No money to gain in niche market. They made "classical" FF under different names, but that also sold poorly.
The funniest thing is their biggest game EVER now is actually an MMO. A model that the old fans hate so much.
@@Centrioless Didn't you read my last comment? People move on in life and every Square Enix title I have is pirated, I didn't even buy the Pixel Remasters or Star Ocean 2R. I got them all free, same for Octopath Traveler 1 and 2. Why buy them when Square disappoints the fans over and over again?
They should've just kept the games the same all these years and added new gameplay and changes in each game but always retain the same elements that made it FF. Any action orientated and huge changes should've been a named spin-off title.
No they should have made it action and move on from the boring turn base
@@mike1989libra Why? Clearly it's not working. Just titled any action titles as a spin-off. All their problems solved.
I prefer the action battle system in FF7 Remake and Rebirth.
@@C-Murph How is the action battle system not working? It worked with Kingdom Hearts, why can't it work for any other franchise?
@@mike1989libralook into Bayonetta and Devil May Cry. You'll love it.
One of the major problem S-E will have to resolve is making their games relevant again. In the last 2 years, i'm not sure any of their games were successful (wether they are AAA or AA), which is a feat in itself. They don't really know how to make their games desirable imo. The thing is most of the current S-E fanbase is still the one that appeared in the 90s and early 2000s. Since, they have spectacularly failed to bring a new, younger fanbase to expand their sales market and thet result nowdays shows.
I'd personally be happy to see mainline Final Fantasy's provide a solid and packed 20 hour main story with another 10-20 hours of optional content and paid story DLC. That's at least the length of a modern Resident Evil game and those are apparently selling really well.
I believe it though, it's going to be harder to sell as many copies of a shorter Final Fantasy. But, on the other hand I think fewer people will buy the next mainline Final Fantasy if they didn't complete the last one (or two, or three) that was so long it made them lose interest.
Still, my vote is to make the most incredible 15-20 hour main story as possible, in part because I think this it's a way to draw in a lot more new fans, but also, because the game becomes much more replayable to me when it's an incredible exerience from beginning to end with nothing that looks anything similar to filler.
Crono Trigger is a 20 hour game, and it is no worse for its short length.
SE's belief that graphical fidelity and action combat are required for FF at this point is just letting pride steer the ship. They are choosing to fail by ballooning their costs to stroke their egos. Persona prints money with anime graphics and turn based combat. Persona games are just cheaper to make and better than FF for years. Hoyo also uses cheaper anime graphics. SE pride will keep them from competing as long as they are slaves to it
This is what we want ff17 to be (like if you agree): a throwback. 2dHD is ideal. Nuanced, fast-paced turn-based combat. High fantasy. A large number (10-12) of playable and secret characters. Non-human races, airships, moogles, chocobos, summons. A vast world full of a myriad of biomes. Available even on switch. Prioritize gameplay over graphics. Bring back fmvs. You can give us the graphics there. In a word? Nostalgia. But not a remake.
Play bravely default series
@@dwrayswez thanks, you bring up a good point: no chibi art styles. I appreciate your contribution, but I can’t get into a game with bad art style.
I think the FF brand should diversify (and do a better job at it; looking at you Stranger of Paradise).
Imagine a world where we are getting:
- AA, 2.5 pixel art remakes of FF1-6 (like Octopath Traveller),
- Remake / Rebirth style remakes for 8, 9, 10 and 12
- More steps being taken to go action / adventure like 16 with 17 onwards
- The occasional spin off like a stand alone Queen’s Blood or a decent chocobo breeder / racer.
I think Square has the talent and the IP, but needs to better position and manage it.
If FF17 was done in the style of Persona 5, it would eliminate so many of these hurdles and could still be wildly successful. We don't NEED FF to be an action RPG with cutting edge CGI. We need fun gameplay, a great story, and interesting visuals.
Square Enix need to make an NEO The Worlds with You budget scale game but with Final Fantasy more often. Lots of big video games aren't making back their money. Also market it.
I wish ff games for campaign took only 25 hrs.
1. Wasn't multiplatform
2. Wasn't also on PS4. Lots of people still don't have a PS5.
3. People found out it's going to be a trilogy, so are waiting to play all three in its entirety.
4. People waiting for the PC release of Rebirth.
5. Things are really expensive these days.
I'd absolutely love an Octopath like new Final Fantasy game.
I had a lot of really angry friends yell at me that I didn't know what I was talking about when it came to the price of video games. One of the arguments that people can't seem to understand is "why should I pay for a $100+ game when they serve me bullshit?" and to that point, it's like... well, they're serving you bullshit because you don't want to pay for a $150 game. A complete packaged game such as Chrono Trigger cost $80 at the time of it's release. In today's money, that's like $120-$150. We are simply not paying the value of a video game anymore and publishers are forced to find ways to make up that revenue. I think a lot of people can't comprehend the reality of the situation. Games take longer to make, it requires more people to make and the return of investment keeps going down every year. It just took like... 30 years or so for that breaking point to finally happen.
im on you on this... reading comments here shows that people are simply not capable of listening yet ready to spout anything despite not fully comprehending whats going on..
if they EVER wanna decrease the time put in... they can make shorter games... indie devs do it all the time.
Stop the cap. A good majority of the pricing cost of those games back in the 90s was due to the fact that you were buying an actual piece of physical medi....no...not even media....you literally bought a chiplet. That required factory processing. Truck shipping. Warehousing. In store processing. And international shipping and transport. Today...its pretty much all digital. So all of those costs go out the window.
80$ in the early 90s by the way...was considered high as hell. You know how much it cost to put in a new bumper and fix a front end after a wreck back in the day? 600$. You know how much thats gonna cost you now? 2000+$.
You know how much 600$ felt like back in the 90s? Felt like you got blessed with 2000$ randomly. 80$ back then was nothing to scoff at. Especially when minimum wage was like 6.50-7.00$ an hour.
They raise the price to $150 and the industry dies, plain and simple
Everyone trying to gaslight us into thinking there is some special reason. The reason FF is dying is because the games just aren't good anymore, that's all.
Completely disagreed. The games are great, it's just that Square imposes insane requirements upon itself and are focusing on things the core audience doesn't really want. I get that my favorite FFs were technical marvels of their time but games look good enough now. Square hasn't been the same since they went full 3D. The Golden Era formula doesn't work anymore because they can l't use tricks like pre rendered backgrounds or stylized graphics anymore. Square is dead set on making FF the king of scale.
@@12ealDealOfficial The golden formula works fine still, ripping off game o thrones doesn't.
@@benfubbs2432 Ahh yes Game of Thrones. The true creator of the medieval fantasy as we all know it. What an absolutely braindead take lmfao
@@omegacloud222 Mate the devs already made it clear that they used game of thrones as inspiration for FFXVI. I'm not going to call you names for not knowing that though, but next time try a quick google search it would have told you that in the first result.
@@omegacloud222 The devs made it clear that they drew inspiration for FFXVI from game of thrones and anyone that played that game can see that square enix obviously copied HBOs homework on that one.
"Dev will always go wrong before it goes right" => as a software engineer, I can't emphasize this enough !
Even in "simple" desktop software development, I'm usually skeptical when something I just developed works the first try.
It's so unusual that the first reflex is to ask yourself : "Iis there some strange case I missed ? Some hidden bug ?"
About the AI, I think it's not going in the right direct, AI should help speed up some part, but not replace artist. It shouldn't create "artwork" or "design", but help fine tune movement or animation, helping in the comportment of NPC or more variant of the same sentences to makes dialog less repetitive etc (making things more alive a bit easier)
But all in all, as you said, I don't see it helping to cut the cost by a significant enough margin for now.
I hypothesized many years ago that games in the model of Genshin and Fortnight would ruin the gaming industry and, while that is debatable, it certainly has influenced and negatively effected a large part of it.
30 hours to beat 50 hours for completion is good enough.
Maybe the FF7 crowd didn’t want a remake that was kingdom hearts. And maybe triple-A production has killed the genre period.
It would’ve cost a third as much to make a faithful FF7 remake in the fidelity of a dark souls game, and it would’ve crushed.
I believe a faithful recreation would still have been at least 2 games. This is based on the difference in playtime in Dragon Quest XI depending on whether you play in 3D or 2D mode. It takes 3 times as long to play in 3D.
@@drewtheunspoken3988 It probably would have gotten a lot more people into it though. I guarantee you a significant portion of players didn't buy Rebirth because of Remake's story changes.
@@jonp1952 I think 2 games was fair. You do have to build all these characters and places for modern audiences.
And I’m just one guy and one RPG fan. But playing the first remake game where you see Sephiroth twice before even meeting Aerith, told me everything. These writers were hacks and would butcher this. And they did.
It didn’t just cost them a sale of rebirth, it cost SONY a sale of a 600 dollar console struggling for meaningful exclusives for rpg fans.
It’s not a coincidence Square-enix numbers have tanked and Sony is dying in Japan.
@@erikreinhardt7955 Yeah exactly. I can't believe anyone who thinks that Remake had no effect on sales of Rebirth.
@@jonp1952 I mean they took their most beloved IP and ripped out every single mechanic, and turned the story over to people who want to make a marvel movie. Yeah, fans hate it.
These writers either don’t understand or don’t care. Just one small bit that spells it all out. In the old one Seph did not care about Cloud in the slightest, and the game is a big chase.
Nowadays they’re Batman and the joker. Hell you meet him twice before Aerith even. Hacks.
"FF has AAA in it's DNA"
I get what he's saying here but on the other hand I feel like it's something they've built up in their heads. It's important to know when to pivot. They could make a FF game be cell shaded like the new Secret of Mana or Tales Of games and they would still be great as long as the gameplay is there. Graphics don't matter nearly as much as they used to and for me FF is less about graphics and more about the amazing characters and settings. Having the artists scan photorealistic rock textures into FF15 did not make that a better game.
The thing I feel is the hardest to account for is how invested is the consumer in the gaming services already available and can you pull them away from that for your new service? You can't just make it and watch people flock to it in most cases, there's just too many games in every genre for that to work. They have to both fall in line with customer expectations while also having something new and different from competitors. That's something that's really hard to do when you're making a game that takes half a decade or more to become a viable product. You have no really concrete information on what potential competition will pop up in that time frame and make something that hits the right notes and steals all your thunder.
It’s struggling because they haven’t made a good final fantasy since X. They have to make rebirth because they can’t create new memorable games, or party members like they used to. They had to make ff16 a single party member game because their new characters suck.
I'd be perfectly happy with a 50-60 hour final fantasy rather than 100 plus hours
rebirth was 50-60 hours lol
@@jlyt18stop lying bro
@@Scott-bh2qb for non side content thats definitely true lol
the side contents worth doing (at least some anyways) so i think most ppl end around 80-100 but yea its a 50-60 hour FF, which is def still longer thanother FFs which have a 30-45 hr story and maybe 60-70 to 100%
but yea my point is if you only wanted to play rebirth for 60 hours thats definitely possible to clear the game and then some
He is crazy if he thinks the game would have sold the same 3 million copies with 150$ tag
Only up to the part about service games making more money. Here is my 2 cents
Service games and microtransactions are always going to make more because they cater to gambling and consistently give the company something to sell without additional work. It's literally the reason why we don't have lightbulbs that last 10+ years so they can keep selling you something without much work. Other wise it's a 1-time buy and that's it. It's also probably why FF11, that FF tatics mobile game, the DOO game, and now ever crisis are still going and always will - because they get money for little work so they can funnel into their AAA games. You can add FF14 to the mix as well which imo is up there with genshin impact but doesn't make as much because Yoshida probably is pushing back against it to not screw his customers over and the fact it's a main title Final Fantasy.
SE and no big business game company is going to give up those types of games because they are their breadwinners and to think that they wouldn't make another one in 2024 would be insane. The only way to stop this now is if the government were to step in and make it illegal to sell microtransactions or we have a really rough 10-50 years min and have a complete economic collapse and reset everything.
Now with that said, I have to say this guy is a bit full of it.
SE has a history of having bad timing and this last year was no exception, along with a bit of bad luck. They released FF16 which was a switch and bait (imo) that basically felt overdramatic. They released this within the same 12 months as FF7 rebirth and to make things worse they do it as BG3 and a lot of other overnight bangers come out in the same 12 months during a time when the economy is shot. Aka people don't have money and when looking at BG3 it blows FF7 rebirth out of the water for the average consumer.
Do you know what BG3 and Elden ring have in common with OG FF7? They don't hold your hand. SE is still pandering to casual players 100% instead of just designing the game to be explored. While FF7 rebirth was nice and open I felt like I had my hand held the entire time only to get to Gongoa to have to puzzle my way through the forest. It's like they couldn't make up their mind. The mini-games, while fun started to feel like padding along with the side quests. I have no doubt this is because of their idea of "AAA quality". This development time could have instead been spent on giving more customization to the characters or putting some of the story beats that got shipped off to ever crisis in the story.
In short I feel like the company is playing more safe every year without actually fully expanding upon their own ideas. This in turn is making them blend in. One of the reasons why I feel that FF14 was (maybe still is I haven't checked in a while) because it had original ideas and had done things that NO OTHER game had done before and hype it up to the max,