Did Matpat FIX the Zelda TIMELINE? - ft. HMK (Game Theory Response)
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- čas přidán 9. 08. 2019
- Is Hyrule Warriors the missing Link to solving the Zelda Timeline? HMK and I try to answer this question by watching a recent video posted by The Game Theorists!
Footage taken from:
ZeldaMaster
Check out the other video here! - • How MatPat DIDN'T FIX ...
HMK's Channel
/ @hmk
Matpat's Video
• Game Theory: Dear Nint...
Check out my BotW timeline theories!
Part 1 - bit.ly/31zMKXb
Part 2 - bit.ly/31vd3ha
Intro & Outro Made by Espen - www.efolsen.com
Twitter - / nintendoblackc
discord server: / discord
Special thanks to my Patreon supporters!
Patreon - / nintendoblackcrisis
#ZeldaTimeline #GameTheory #Matpat - Hry
This was really Fun! Glad We worked together!
HMK you gotta freak out more and get excited for more Zelda games
killer artist calm down
May your heart be your guiding key
@HMK Though, now that you guys have disproven his theory, now what? Back to square one? If you guys disprove something, don't just leave it at that. It's really frustrating for people who want an answer, but all they get are questions. Also, I feel like you guys were kind of unfair. He was trying to make a theory, and most of the details that you found, like portals, were kind of nitpicky, and didn't actually disprove his theory. No judgement to you, or to NBC. In fact, I am subscribed to both of your channels. However, you guys kind of ignored a lot. Firstly, about Cia and Lana, and how they were new. Having them as canon would explain what or who protected the triforce after Hylia's death, and rebirth. Secondly, you guys kind of acted as if the timelines were set in stone, when in fact, they change rather regularly, and their are always parts of the world that don't fit. Four swords has enemies that only appear in the downfall timeline. Geography doesn't make sense. The world of hyrule is always changing. Also, the containment of the timelines, what about the items? They can be transported, and also, rock salt, in both mat's theory, and yours, can't be used as evidence, since they are randomly generated. Same thing with koroks, since they were just reused assets from the remake of Windwaker.
Bottom line, if you disprove something, tweak the theory, or replace it. Otherwise, you will just reset the theory, making a bunch of theorist frustrated. Like, what about trying to make a theory about how the hatred and malice across the timelines force combined the timelines together? That would mean a whole lot more than just disproving mat's theory
@@raawesome3851 this wasnt meant to be a theory video it's purpose was meant to point out the flaw in another person's theory and thats it. the summery of this video is: "how Hyrule Warriors is not canon in the Zelda franchise"
I like to think about the 3 timelines as the three goddesses timelines:
• Din, goddess of power: Downfall timeline
• Nayru, goddess of wisdom: Adult timeline
• Farore, goddess of courage: Child timeline
• Downfall timeline because obviously Ganon, the holder of the Triforce of power, wins.
• Adult timeline because it's the timeline where Zelda, the holder of the Triforce of wisdom, sends Link back and lives on with her knowledge on what has happened.
• Child timeline because it's the timeline where Link, the holder of the Triforce of courage, goes on his own journey, separate from his timeline's Zelda.
Most underrated comment award goes to you Lol. That is a really cool point most over look including me.
This is a great idea and it got me thinking to how throughout each respective timeline, those characters hold the most importance.
•Downfall Timeline, Ganon is consistently returned to power and is the focal point to the most main villain's goals
• Adult Timeline, Zelda is an independent hero who typically aids Link
•Child Timeline, Link grows from nothing to become a new hero
I know there are some flaws to this, like how Ganon isn't relevant in Link to the Past or how Zelda is a statue the entirety of Phantom Hourglass or Vaati bringing back Ganon in Four Swords Adventure, but it holds true for most of it. Adult timeline has Ganon's minions actively trying to resurrect him in majority of the games. Adult Timeline has Zelda as Tetra, a pirate captain, in two of the three games and a spirit who can possess and aid Link, plus she helps Link make the actual final blow of the game. Child timeline has Ganon pull the strings behind the scenes, which is different than his minions outright saying they wish to bring back Ganon.
This is both genius, and beautiful.
Wow
OK I really like this lol.
Plot twist: There's no way to fix the Zelda timeline
Sebastián Ramirez the twist left me so shook
And that's why Nintendo wants to start over XD.
not really a twist tho lmaooo
Sebastián Ramirez not unless Nintendo pulls a FNAF VR and says BotW is the new streamlined timeline that is new organized timeline. Yes you would have the old timeline still acknowledged, but you would only have BotW as a complete replacement with a few call backs
I'm sure that the timeline could be fixed, but not by Matpat. It's an interesting idea, I'll give him that, but Hyrule Warriors just isn't the game to do it.
When she says “over the seas of distance and time”, she isn’t talking about a literal sea. She’s talking about the vast amount of time and distance that hylia has blessed them.
Exactly, it’s just a metaphor. Kinda like some of the things Sheik says to Link in OoT.
Yeah, I really don’t understand how anyone could see that as a reference to the Windwaker.
I feel like the quote is also a call back to how Sheik in Ocarina of Time referred to the aptly named item as a boat on the river, sailing in time's flow. Not exact, but that's how I perceive it.
Besides "sea of time and distance" can have alot and I mean alot of baggage with referencing other games phantom hourglass was basically about a literal sea of time. The time is also ambiguous was it years, ages, seasons? I mean heck link also literally travels to worlds never seen again (majoras mask, a link to the past [and between worlds] links awakening as well as most of the DS titles.] Which he completely ignores in the initial theory link is seen sailing in links awakening that's an ocean he was clearly headed to or from somewhere.
Yeah exactly
No "It's not canon" rebuttal.
That's a highly respectable decision to make based on, honestly, a very wise distinction.
Definitely subscribing for the respect you're showing your fellow theorists in that aspect.
Rock salt:cannot be eaten in this form
Link:I’ll just give it to Revali then
Ravioli*
Ooooh good plan Link let's choke Revali!
Falco*
I mean it's just, asinine
@@ravenclawgaming2920 this is hyrule not termina
Honestly I can see where Matpat was coming from, but it had a few flaws in it. For example the big thing I noticed was that Matpat failed to mention was how at the end of Hyrule Warriors Cia and Lana put everything back to normal which in a way kind of disproves the theory. It is a shame though because I did actually enjoy this particular theory.
Yeah, MattPat has a habit of ignoring facts that don’t support his pet theories and throws tantrums at people with legit criticisms.
Why does anyone take that guy seriously? His animations are really fucking cringey goggle eyes and a distorted pic of his face. Such creativity. 🙄
@@brabbit330 *says that matpat has a problem with legit criticism*
*continues to "criticize" something completely subjective*
How can ppl take u seriously when you make completely cringe comments🙄
wait, could there have been another split, one where everything went back to normal and another where it doesn’t?
@@Hutch2Much technically yes but if you take the possibility of more , not mentioned, splits literally every theory completely disregarding how straight off wrong it is could be "proofed" simply by saying It happend in a different timeline
brabbit330 Because he misses something doesn’t mean he can’t theorize
Honestly until a better timeline theory comes along this will still be my go to theory, it does involve having to ignore some small nuances though. But not even the official timeline makes perfect sense in my opinion.
What about the fact that Ocarina’s time travelling split the timeline in the first place? If something physics-defying like time travel has the power to split the timeline, surely something like portal-travelling has the power to put it back together? Or at least leave a lasting impression on Hyrule?
Lasting impression doesnt = to timeline convergence
as much as I agree that reality-bending feats like what happened in the game could result in at-minimum a timeline with heavy influences from all others technically [theoretically?] speaking all that is needed to create multiple timeline/universes is choosing a different action [like disappearing for seven years then fixing the world vs. preventing the primary problem in the first place]. Really all the time-travelling did was make it so the three potential futures were innately connected and intertwined [why we don't have a fourth timeline where Link is female but do have one where he died]
@@auramaster2068 BOTW takes place in a timeline in which Link fails in Hyrule Warriors
There could be two mirrors of twilight, but there are a lot of "could"s in all these theories.
Yeah, and that's one of the biggest problems imo
Oh yeah. By the why, I gave you some endear pearls on the server. I like your theories, and there are always minor flaws in almost all theories ever. I can't do what you do. Good job on all of these.
Since the Mirror of Twilight is supposed to be ancient in Twililight Princess there could or rather should actually be three mirrrors in Nintendo's official timeline with only the one in the Child Timeline destroyed by Ganondorf... There should be versions of the mirror in botht the Adult Timeline and the Decline Timeline.
But this would require logic to be applied to the official timeline which is in itself nonsense.
there is no way they're are 2 twilight mirrors
Davis609 actually there could be three total we just don't see them in the other timelines. The mirror was built before the timeline split, so there actually can.
Well, there wa s this guy before matpat that also make a video saying that hyrule warriors will "fix" the timeline
I only remember that the video has a zelda monopoly joke
it's Brian David Gilbert from polygon
BDG unraveled polygon
I also saw it on a few pretty old posts. Can't remember if them atm
He included stuff like the TV show and the CDi games 😂😂😂
@@angelite777 that's the joke of the video, placing every single piece of Zelda media on the Timeline
I thought Cia's actions in Hyrule Warriors broke both time and space? Jumbling Midna and Zant together from different points in the same timeline doesn't seem too far fetched to me.
Also I don't think Darunia and Ruto go "against" the child timeline. Wasn't the theory that Cia's actions took the three timelines and pulled them all together into one new converged timeline before fixing everything and putting the three timelines back in place but leaving behind a new fourth timeline where all three merged for that battle?
Also the comment on not liking the idea of an alternate timeline where the timelines weren't fixed idea cause it relies on assuming events that took place outside of the games... The official Zelda Timeline would like to have a word with you on that one lol. That's exactly what the timeline already did to become three separate timelines.
You do make good points on what issues the addition would cause. While I'm pointing out everything I might disagree with I'm making these comments as they come up in the video so I don't forget them. There are points I agree with though.
I do like the tone of the video too. Nearly everyone who points out problems with a game theory throws in ad hominem attacks. The more neutral tone and fact based arguments are a breath of fresh air.
Thanks! It's... interesting how many people have seen this as an "attack" on them 😅
dragonwaz For the most part, though, NintendoBlackCrisis is correct. In the actual game, Cia never merged the timelines, making the relationship of the Gorons and Rito with respect to the timelines completely irrelevant. Even if all the other arguments made in this video could be refuted - and they can be refuted easily indeed - this argument alone not only exposes a flaw in MatPat's theory, but it actually completely dismantles it altogether. There is no small adjustment you can make to the theory to fix it simply because of this one valid argument NBC has in this video.
To MatPat's credit, though, he definitely was onto something. If Nintendo were to ever release a game similar in concept to Hyrule Warriors, but with the in-game events playing out a little differently, then that game would objectively the best bridge between Breath of the Wild and the rest of The Legend of Zelda timeline. Of course, it would not be sufficient to actually fix it, since the very existence of the Fallen Hero timeline alone constitutes a flaw bigger than all other inconsistencies combined, as it quite literally contradicts the plot of Ocarina of Time; but nonetheless, it would still be significant progress on the timeline.
I find the theory as a relatively good excuse for the timeline merge
The "seas of time and distance" line from the master works could also be a reference to the Lanayru Sea in Skyward Sword, in that game the Lanayru Sea is either of sea of sand in the future/present or a sea of water in the past and through the timeshift stones Link is able to travel through that Lanayru Sea which is aloud to have the name called the sea of time and ad for distance , it would have quite the distance considering it's a sea.
Possibly
Makes more sense than their reason
You should pin this comment also
Actually I think the quote doesn't mean a literal sea. It's alluding to the expanse of history and legend, the various incarnations of the Legendary Hero over the ages; and that a hero of legend is fated to arise when Hyrule's need is greatest.
@@tanukidrummer OH my gosh, finally someone else gets it, I'm going insane not understanding how people can possibly construe this as a reference to the Wind Waker
I appreciate that you guys love Matpat's content enough to rip it apart.
@Robertino Tanos Nice try matpattdrone
@Robertino TanosDamn did I piss you off kid?
Bro we don't need to fight it's just a theory, both of them acknowledge this
Just because NBC disputes some of matpats claims doesn't mean he completely disagrees nor thinks matpats theory is completely invalid
He just believes some parts are weaker than others
I see immature kids arguing lol
"seas of time" doesn't seem like a windwaker reference at all to me
It's about the Master Sword.
Sheik said that the Master Sword was sailing on the stream of Time or something.
IKR?
Oh yeah? Then why does sailing take forever in that game? Checkmate
I think the usage of the word "seas" is just a way of showing the how long the Master Sword has existed, not a literal sea.
@@MegaVirus700 well played there buddy
I don’t think Matpats theory solves the timeline, but I do believe it’s more plausible than what we currently have.
Same
I mean, to be fair, what we have is BotW takes place after all of Zelda, with no explanation as to how, and MatPat is trying to give us that Joe since Nintendo won’t.
I mean. Is it though?
It's like building a house on a shakey foundation and then building a cheap tower on that house and saying it fixed it. Sure maybe the weight of the tower will better disperse the weight onto the foundation and allow it to better settle in place but even if the tower perfectly did that and fix the foundation. Now you have a shakey tower that could end up caving your roof in.
@@macabweu7682 I mean it definitely is more plausible cause you can just take the core of the games story. That being a hyrule being connected to different times, timelines, or eras via portals. That could possibly have more impact on the world around. So the supposed shakey tower is actually really stable. Is it perfect like we want no not by a long shot but is it better than, It is in the far distant future and it will not be placed in a timeline So deal with it. Yeah I think so
How?
I think that Hyrule warriors doesn't solve the Zelda timeline, but a game with a similar plot could.
Tommy Meadows agreed
Yeah I think that would fit
Yep. A better game hopefully, cos a multiverse could be a sick idea if done properly
my statement would be "It does not quite solve the timeline, but it's the closest thing to solving it that we have at the moment."
Yeah, i made a huge comment about this, it still had some flaws but I wanted to stop typing, I also think it should be before four swords adventure
Basically Quick Summary of this video: It doesn't matter if Hyrule Warriors is canon or not because all plot implications found in the game are resolved and nullified by the end of the game's story.
True
Yup.
Thanks for saving everyone some wasted time. The argument was banal 10 minutes in.
Now I'm not so sure about Hyrule Warriors, but I still think Breath of the Wild is the result of a unified timeline. I actually had a similar idea years before the game was even announced, that reallity would correct itself and every timeline merged.
The issue i have with this theory is that it simply doesn't make sense, this is'nt a warp in the west situation, you're literally pushing 3 worlds together that went in drastically different directions 1000's of years before, even the characterization of Ganondorf is different. What's more said theory basically requires us to believe some big event happened before BOTW that is never mentioned nor explained to cause such a unification, atm it feels like a very lazy "well fuck it, I dunno" kind of theory.
BOTW2 could potentially bring light on such an event but who knows, personally I don't think it's messed the timeline up as much as most people think, most of the game can be explained pretty logically despite the references, but there is of course no denying how obscuring it is compared to previous entries.
Again not really what botw is in the timeline its wherever you put it but its not one converged timeline
@@triggerpigking3741 I think we need to remove all references and nods to other titles to find where it is on the timeline. And with some help of BOTW 2 Trailer. It's in the Child Timeline. Question answered. More specifically the latest game of the timeline.
Nods and references while fun are kind of dumb to build an entire theory of where a game takes place in a timeline.
Let me quote a comment in his 2017 video:
"Major cutscene mentioning events only happening in one timeline."
Mat: I sleep.
"Some yellow stripe is on his hat."
Mat: ASCENDED.
I saw that comment 😂
@@NintendoBlackCrisis one of the best. And btw, the Hyrule Warriors theory isn't by MatPat, but instead this comment:
*CloudyChances*
_all joking aside, using Hyrule Warriors as the way to unite all the timelines into the Breath of the Wild one is brilliant and would legitimately explain a lot_ 4 months ago
czcams.com/video/Q-25c8Rsobw/video.html
@@nowonmetube Just like how his Minecraft Endermen theory wasn't his originally, he got it from Tumblr. After the whole "Yellow striped hat" thing and him not making new theories, I lost respect for him.
@@LucasConnerLC1 people lost respect for him long ago. There's a video up on CZcams, "Why I don't watch Game Theory anymore" or something like that. And it's sad because it's accurate what's said there. (Basically MatPat not keen on criticism.)
@@nowonmetube Most of his shit is stolen, and the rest is complete asspulls.
"There is one thing I need to correct MatPat on"
*Corrects like 40 statements*
@matpat - your response?
Oof 😂
@@NintendoBlackCrisis The big Oof
"you failed"
He can't respond if he's dead after how hard this video murdered him.
@@soldierofkazus dang xD
I do believe BotW IS a fusion of the three timelines, due to the worlds slowly and lazily fusing together over the eons. But not that HW had anything to do with it.
If it was Canon it would only be a jumpstart for the process.
But how that fixes nothing and leaves us where we start but even further from canon
I think Age of Calamity disproves that idea. Or at least the developers weren't trying to fuse the timeline together.
i think mattpatts theory is a great start. Hyrule Warriors could actually be what creates the botw timeline. Events as big as portals to different universes opening up in 1 location could have effects such as birthing an entirely new timeline that's a combination of all 3 existing timelines. so the theory isnt perfect but its definately the best ive seen so far (ive seen as far as where BOTW falls on the timeline. not the best zelda theory). its astep in the right direction and could easily be written in with BOTW2
But it wouldnt converge the timelines really its more like a sub timeline thats an off shoot of all the timelines with elements of other timelines
Auramaster 206yt That's a semantic difference, though, so it's not exactly relevant to the overall The Legend of Zelda chronology.
@@angelmendez-rivera351 A semantic difference can actually be a big thing in arguments. What's the difference between Murder and Manslaughter?
If you were to drive home one day and hit something. And then you are met the next morning by two police at the front or back. One wants to arrest you on Manslaughter charges the other on Murder charges. Who do you pick?
Simple. The Murder changes. As murder requires intent.
The point of this analogy is that semantic differences are a very important tool. And should never be disregarded.
Valley of the Seers is called Lanayru Gorge in the japanese Hyrule Warriors (don't know why they renamed the place, as Lanayru Gorge was used in Skyward Sword), and the Spring of Power is in Akkala, not in Lanaryu.
There isn't really a region in botw called lanayru. What could be considered lanayru spans from mount lanayru in Hateno to the lanayru sea in akkala.
@@blakejohnson9823 lanyaru exists in the twilight princess spanning zora domain to central Hyrule
@@haruhisuzumiya6650 I know, I was talking about breath of the wild though.
Uh, yes there is a Region in BotW called Lanayru. You can find Mount Lanayru and Hateno village there.
Says it right on the in-game map once you activated the tower in the area.
Was watching something else, but this comes first
WimpyWater same
I'm on vication but I watched it as soon as possible
Isn't that the case for majority of us people who get here early? xD
Yep
Same
3:10 "when we need the golden power of the goddess" is a direct reference to A Link to the Past. It's a translated badly, but at least in German they mentioned it.
Who’s to say it isn’t actually the German version that’s wrong? 🤔
"Over the seas of time and distance" isn't talking about literal seas. That isn't the end of the sentence. It goes on to say that whenever Hylia's power is needed, her power can always be found in the Master Sword. To put simply, whenever and wherever the hero needs Hylia's help, she will always help through her power in the Master Sword.
Who else loves hearing the Hyrule Warriors music in the background.
The game has some great music!
It was one of my favorite games in the series
A few things people tend to not mention when discussing BotW timeline theories:
1. Ruto was mentioned as a sage, which only happened in the adult timelines
2. The Twilight Realm exists in ALL timelines, as does the Arbiter's Grounds and the Mirror of Twilight. The event of TP focus on them, but they were not created only in that timeline. Also, the royal family is aware of the Twilight Realm, so Zelda could reference "the embers of twilight" in any timeline.
3. Not too important, but Midna would also exist in all timelines. Zant only overthrew her in TP because of Ganondorf's power, but she would have just kept on being the princess/queen otherwise.
4. Structures like Spectacle Rock would also exist in all timelines (unless it was created deliberately, which I'm not aware of) so it doesn't "prove" anything.
5. Rito evolved from Zora, but even in real life one species can branch into two distinct species, especially if isolated enough. Doesn't prove any "merging of timeline"
All in all, if I had to pick one, I'd say BotW HAS to be in an adult timeline, probably after WW. It seems unlikely because of the Great Sea and all, but the child timeline is just impossible (Ruto was never a sage). And the fallen hero timeline did not have a living Deku Tree nor the Zora or Rito, so I think that's even less likely.
OtherDoor Is your second point confirmed somewhere? I’ve always assumed this could be the case but have not yet seen anything official on it.
@@JosephRooks it has never been confirmed or denied, but there's nothing that would point to it not existing separately from Hyrule.
@@JosephRooks It's all confirmed in the Ganondorf execution scene in TP. That's in the Child Timeline when Link goes back to warn of Ganondorf's betrayal to the royal family, so they take him to the Arbiter's grounds with the mirror of twilight. This means it all HAD to exists during the time you're playing as a child in Ocarina of Time (and thus as an adult too, since it's the same world just 7 years later) and that the Royal Family knew about it. Also, the Mirror was created to seal the ancient Twili tribe away ages ago, so it wasn't built just for Ganondorf's execution.
OtherDoor Never fully thought through that, but yeah, that makes all kinds of sense. It was only in the timeline where Ganondorf is sent there where the Twilight Realm becomes relevant.
keep in mind Ruto was also a sage in the downfall one too, Link just failed in the final battle.
embers of twilight is somethign I have to wonder could be a mistranslation of dark world, i've got no evidence to back that up, I don't speak Japanese but that whole speech has been changed in many languages so it's possible, and it's also very possible the words used for the dark world and twilight world could be similar over there.
Rito are by far the most confusing part of it, not least because they have 0 connection to the Zora in this game, what I have noticed however is that they are a natural species unlike in WW, where they would literally go extinct if they did'nt have Valoo and were also forcibly changed to hide Hyrule. So i'm not even sure if they are the same species of Rito.
it's actually legend of Zelda monopoly that solves the timeline
I doubt it exists but i want that game now
@@kallistiravenhurst5232 www.amazon.com/USAOPOLY-MN005-394-MONOPOLY-Legend-Collectors/dp/B00K3EYT50
The legend of Zelda : Monopoly of Time (lines).
Counter point on the sages saving Hyrule "yet again"; it could just refer to the fact that they were summoned after the events of OoT (and thus, after they saved Hyrule in that universe)
I think hyrule warriors is just a fun spin off, bringing the most memorable and fun characters and locations together.
Agreed, similar to CoH it's made for fun like Mario Party and Mario Kart in their series as well.
9:40 I do have to nitpick on this statement: If sudden appearance of mayor elements of Zelda universe lore out of nowhere is a problem then Octarina of Time has exactly the same problem. Because you suddenly have this artifact, that controls TIME ITSELF, but it was never mentioned before or since (Correct me if I am wrong about this.)
So yes. While the fact that we suddenly have super-powerful entity/entities that control balance of universe is kind of iffy, this kind of plot-point is nothing new nor un-ordinary for Zelda games.
Except the Zelda Timeline explains that. Ocarina of Time is placed near the beginning of the timeline. All the games that were created prior to Ocarina of Time take place far into the future of the timeline. The only game that takes place before Ocarina of Time is Skyward Sword. Which introduced Time Stones. That control time. It's not hard to imagine the Hylian Royal Family, once Hyrule Castle has been reconstructed and the Royal Family has been re-established, harvesting Time Stones and crafting the Ocarina of Time out of them.
@@ForeverDegenerate
"(...)Ocarina of Time is placed near the beginning of the timeline(...)"
Except there are like three games before it. But I see your point with time stones.
"(...) It's not hard to imagine (...) harvesting Time Stones and crafting the Ocarina of Time out of them."
Neither it is hard to imagine those Tri-force guardians being created at the beginning of universe by and then being effectively forgotten by people of Hyrule because they have never interacted with the rest of the world (As they probably are only to react in a very unlikely scenario). Or alternatively being forgotten again, after interacting, because games can have millennia between them.
@@erwinkonopka7071 The games that were made before Ocarina of Time are placed in the "Ganon Wins" timeline so there's your explanation for that one. I doubt Ganon would allow the Ocarina of Time to continue to exist after killing both Link and Zelda. I would imagine he shattered it right away so there'd be no potential challengers to his power.
In the Adult Timeline, Link killed Ganon and brought Future Hyrule into an Era of Peace, so there would have been no need for the Ocarina of Time after Link gave it to Adult Zelda and went back to the past. It's entirely possible that the Ocarina of Time was buried with Zelda when she died and the Royal Family forgot about it. That would also line up with the next game in this particular timeline: Wind Waker. Hyrule is flooded in this timeline. So if my theory holds true, even if anyone actually still knew about The Ocarina of Time, they wouldn't able to get it since it would now be buried beneath the bottom of The Great Sea.
And in the Child Timeline, the Ocarina of Time itself was never recovered after the events of Majora's Mask. The Hero's Shade in Twilight Princess exists because The Hero of Time never returned to Hyrule. Ergo, we can assume he died somewhere else and the Ocarina of Time was buried with him because I doubt anyone where he died would have known what it was. They would have just seen a beautiful Ocarina, known it was his, and buried it with him. Or, less likely possibility, Skull Kid tracked him down and stole it off his corpse after he died. Which, in that case, would mean The Ocarina of Time is truly lost.
My point is, if you look at the History of Hyrule and of Zelda and Link, it's easy to see how and why The Ocarina of Time only existed during those games. Timeline One, Ganon Wins, Ocarina is destroyed. Timeline Two, Hyrule enters an Era of Peace with no Hero. Ocarina of Time is buried with Zelda which is then buried beneath The Great Sea. Timeline Three, The Ocarina of Time is buried with Link somewhere else when he fails to return to Hyrule. So there are your explanations for why The Ocarina is never mentioned after the events of Ocarina of Time.
I would also like to counter your theory about the Goddesses being forgotten. That simply isn't true. There have always been Temples to the Goddess Hylia. Hell they even named a Lake after her. And the other three Goddesses? The Hylians have done a lot for them. They created shrines to them. Named Magic Spells after them (presumably because you actually invoke the Goddess' Power to use said magic). And are constantly naming areas of Hyrule after them. Hylia, Din, Farore, and Nayru are always present in The Legend of Zelda in various ways.
@@ForeverDegenerate What I mean when I say that OoT have three games before it is that there are three game in timeline happening before OoT. Not in series. Said games being Skyward Sword. Minish cap and Four swords. All three of these happen before OoT.
As for you goddess arguments. Please remember that guardian/guardians (AFAIR there was only one and then they split into two at the beginning of HW.) are not goddesses. They may not warrant the same divine praise. Or may even be meant to be unknown at all. Remember one of plot-points of HW was that guardians are not supposed to interfere in the whole cycle unless a specified condition occurred that may never even had happened.
I love how the Master Sword is literally never mentioned anywhere in OoT until Link approaches it for the first time when Navi recognizes it as “The Legendary Blade...The Master Sword!”.
Mattpat: I have a theory
NBC: I have the high ground
Everyone else: So did we fix the timeline or nah?
Nah
No. Matpat didn't even get close.
@@macabweu7682 MatPat was right, or else he Is really really close, much closer than anyone else. #TheGameTheorists #GTLive #TheFoodTheorists #TheFilmTheorists
I honestly love how Hyrule Warrior was written to fit into the child timeline (though it takes some liberties), even though it had no reason to conform to the official timeline structure. Even in Legends, the wind waker elements are specifically said to be from a separate dimension.
I am subscribe to multiple theories and it's fun to see a theory taken on by lots of people
I think it does. I think that there was much more to the portals and what they did to the land of Hyrule at the time. It would explain why every timeline has a presence in BoTW, and, if you consider time paradox into the mix, it could explain things like Rito, Rock Salt, and Lynels. I also think you're misunderstanding Lana and Cia's role. They were not responsible for guarding the Triforce. They were meant to observe the events of the hero, and make sure that Demise's curse would be defeated in every encounter. The only reason they made themselves known, was because the Sorceress was taken advantage of by Ganon, and forced her to split herself into Lana and Cia. If the Sorceress hadn't fallen for Link, she would never have been vulnerable to Ganon's power, and Hyrule Warrior's never would have happened. But it did. Honestly? The only argument now would be that Hyrule Warriors doesn't follow the traditional Zelda formula. But neither does BoTW! So, in my opinion, yes. Hyrule Warriors does fix the timeline by being the one thing that can merge them all together.
And I'm going to refute your opinion using NBC's logic: "Can, but didn't." Like he said, the ending of Hyrule Warriors is the closing of the portals and the returning of the characters to their respective timelines. The Timelines were never merged. Ergo, Hyrule Warriors fixes nothing.
@@ForeverDegenerate Yeah but the portals even being opened at all could have left some kind of merging effect to that universe. Think of the Hyrule Warriors universe as a plate of food within a restaurant of all sorts of different kinds of food. When you're in a restaurant with all sorts of different kinds of food your plate of food is going to have multiple different types of food on it. That's what all these portals opening could have done to the Hyrule Warriors universe. Left all sorts of different elements from different timelines on it.
@@matthopkins2024 What the fan base deserves is a game that connects all the timelines via timetraveling, multiversing, or whatever. Matpat clearly raised a major question, where do all the timelines reconverge to get us the events of BOTW and the 100 years prior? Matpat although wrong on some parts, might have helped the community a step closure to solving the dang timelines.
@@cross_rdiance7968 Right I absolutely agree.
Disagree with the Zelda Formula portion there. Yes, Breath of the Wild did kill a lot of series traditions but it still maintains more than enough to keep it as a Zelda game. Definitely more than Hyrule Warriors. Puzzle solving is still largely a huge focus with Divine Beasts and Shrines clearly being the game's successor for dungeon content found in previous games. Exploration and discovery is also turned up to 11 and takes some inspiration from the original NES Zelda even if the exploration itself differs from previous games. Plus the main quest is pretty much traditional Zelda stuff just non linear. It still has a bunch of Zelda DNA in it, its just handled in a different way. Hyrule Warriors though is pretty much a Dynasty Warriors game with a Zelda skin on it. Not that it makes it bad, but it lacks a lot more than BOTW does in terms of Zelda elements. Its also probably why it won't be considered Canon anytime soon
Mats theories have a lot of holes, but he probably put more thought into this problem than Nintendo did. They just mindlessly put fanservicee into the game and called it a day.
Pffft. As he did the thinking. Wouldn't be surprised if he has commissioned to someone to write theory for him and took all the credit afterwards. He still doesn't credits Inside the Mind in the Gravity Falls episode he wrote on Film Theory.
MatPat switches metrics multiple times when discussing numbers without adjusting for the actual change in metric. He did this in one of his MM video's.
He is a hack.
Maybe it is just set really far in the future, but Ganondorf in BOTW 2 has to be the same Ganon from Twilight Princess. It is almost the same person. Same jewels, same physique, and most importantly...The same chest wound that we drive the sword into at the end of TP.
He reincarnated after Twilight Princess in Four Swords Adventures. That sort of invalidates TP Ganondorf by default.
He reincarnated after Twilight Princess in Four Swords Adventures. That sort of invalidates TP Ganondorf by default.
That ganondorf was sealed in the Four Sword
Oh, I knew someone would do this. As always.
Why its true
I guess that Zelda Hyrule warriors is only another alternate universe. That my cannon.
Another timeline
Yeah thats how it stands at the momment
I pick child timeline because the OG Hyrule, Triforce and Master Sword are all no longer obtainable in the child timeline after the events of the Wind Waker.
Blame the ghost of the King for that.
Everyone wants to fix the Zelda timeline, but no one wants to agree when someone brings up an actual way to solve the timeline issue, they debate, and argue. I for one, enjoy the idea of Hyrule warriors, or a game similar to it, fixing it.
Even if Hyrule Warriors might not have actually caused the reunification of the timelines, it could be a precursor to it. Perhaps the next version has the 4 sword involved and brings in BoTW Link and Zelda and at the end of the game Links from the 3 timelines merge with BotW link merging the timeline at that past point in time.
You guys assume there is actually a timeline to begin with
@@jpharbazjokersnake8143
It's all a bundle of separate instances that happen to fall under similar results.
@@nullpoint3346 exactly
I mean. You say that like it's their fault when they point out inconstancies. I like the GT theory and had it myself way before the vid was uploaded, but if it's not solid for several reasons people should point it out.
8:12 i think you're missing something here. the arguement was that hyrule warriors takes place in the child timeline BEFORE portals started opening up, as in, what you encounter before shit hits the fan aligns with the child timeline. So you saying that Darunia and Ruto assisted in battle against gannon before they came through the portal doesn't matter. they're coming from the adult timeline, where they DID assist against gannon, while in the child timeline, they never did.
I enjoyed MatPats Theory, but as he always says: It's just a theory. Enven though I liked his video, but I do not consider it to be the truth. (Just like the whole Ness is Sans Theory. I liked it and it was fun to listen to, but I do not consider it to be true)
And these guys do the same just make theory
Matpat even said he doesn't believe sans is Ness, he just did it because he decided hey why not
@@mario_maniac9368 i know that's why I subscribed here
@@wimpywater While I like the persistence. Blind persistence is no better and even worse then no persistence.
Thank you for this giant Hyrule warriors ad. I will now go out and buy it, it looks fun
It's really fun, and the story is enjoyable too, even if it is "non-canon"
"adding another timeline split is something i dont think Nintendo would want to do"
Age of Calamity: allow me to introduce myself
I would like Hyrule Warriors to be in the timeline for two reasons: 1) I like the title Hero of the Multiverse, that sounds fucking awesome and 2) I like the graphic design of the game. That's it.
HMK: How matpat didn't fix the zelda timeline lol I'm not joking they uploaded at the same time
Cash ordeals yeah, that’s what a crossover is
I think botw come from all 3 timelines. Making a brand new one.
The problem is how
That's what MattPatt is trying to solve
I think the story of botw happens in all three timelines but doesn’t remerge the timelines if that makes any sense
@@JacobHarkins2 1. That doesn't make any sense 2. That's not what you think that's what's officially known so far 3. All of the theories know about that but try to explain HOW it works
nowonmetube What? you’re not making any sense either because you say i don’t make sense but thats what we know so far. Im confused as fuck lmaoooo??????
“I don’t think adding more splits is something Nintendo would wanna do.”
{Terrako laughs in 1s and 0s}
"I don't think Nintendo wants to add more splits to the timeline."
*laughs in Age of Calamity*
“I don’t think adding more splits is something Nintendo will do” bruh
honestly, this is my views on the whole Zelda timeline:
Each Game is non canon to every game unless otherwise stated. Ocarina of Time can be connected to twilight Princess or Wind Waker, but it's never connected to A Link to the Past. Each new Zelda game is merely a retelling of the same legend; The world falls in danger of a tyranical evil king, and a unexpected hero will rise up to combat the evil and save the world. They each have their spins and ideas, but otherwise, there is no need to figure out why Minish Cap is somehow a prequel to Ocarina of Time. No matter how you put it, a single, cohesive timeline for Zelda will never work out. The simplest and easiest explanation is for Zelda to adopt a timeline similar to what Final Fantasy does; every new installment is it's own universe unless otherwise stated or heavily implied in the game itself.
BREATH OF THE WILD IS A REBOOT!! Every " hint " or " link " to previous zelda you find is Fan service !!! Hyrule warrior is a spinof purely about fan service !! It as no link whatsoever with the timeline soon you will add the zelda CDI games to the zelda timeline !? Or the super smash games in the timeline !? All this discussion remind me all the useless theory about five night at freddy ... Breath of the wild is not link to the timeline its a reboot full of fan service that all o.O all the zelda timeline is bullshit! wen Nintendo made their games they never even tough of a timeline and every games was at stand alone story until to many fanboy ave scream for a timeline that weare the hyrule historia comme from harrasment from Fanboys ... I use to play elder scroll before bethesda tried to rape me EA style and now i play breath of the wild and i watch every zelda as letsplay
You are right about OOT not being connected to ALTTP tho
Nope they are deep connected wind waker and twilight princess are heavy connected to ocarina of time along with skyward sword at the beginning this
These 3 games ARE NOTHINg LIKE FINAL FANTASY story connection
It’s like you people don’t read in game text or some 🤬SHIIIIllll
Adult timeline
Wind waker talks literally about the hero of time and how ganon wasa evil man stole the triforce then sealed away and zelda being the only blood relative the master sword chamber has all 6 sagas from Ocarina of time ganon at the end of the Even talks about his final battle with link about his previous endeavors with the last link and Zelda Aka
Ganondorf :literally references OOT It is here I would again gather the 3 with the crest
Child timeline
Twilight princess if you study
the second end of ocarina of time
Which doesn’t take rocket science
You know where twilight princess is placed and you know why ganondorf got that triforce hell even at the end the game Makes it clear
Ganondorf: an interesting looking blade but nothing more Aka this is the ganondorf that never saw the master sword and never ran into link when he was a child
Unified timeline
Skyward sword the beginning origin of the hero in green and princess
And evil incarnate
So yeah everything I mentioned to you is nothing like final fantasy
These Zelda games super linked
Even if there distance
sequels
Again it’s like you people don’t read text in story’s or something
Anyway a link to the past I will give you that after all wind waker took its place as the definite retcon ADULT TIMELINE
I think that the theory has a couple holes, but it could just accepted by nintendo to fix the split problem
Sure, if "a couple holes" means "by the end of the game literally all effects are reversed, so it barely ends up any different than it was before, much less a viable solution."
@@kiaghezel-ayagh9099 free dlc to undo it lol. Sneak in a little canon at the last minute
@@MegaVirus700 The Triforce makes no mistakes. To wish upon the Triforce for something terrible to be undone is to make it undone to the fullest extent.
@@macabweu7682 Except literally just a few days after link le arrived the great sea popped in?
Hyrule Warriors plot wise style of game could fix it..... It would be awesome seeing 4-5 (wether you count windwaker or not) incarnations of link battling ganondorf/ganon/demise/etc.
Unless the portals are what the dragons in botw go through before they disappear
That is a really good thought.
No. We can see the portals. As someone else described the portals are much more likely the Sky Barrier mentioned in Skyward Sword. (I think it was that game it was mentioned)
Honestly idc
You know why
ITS ZELDA NO MATTER HOW CRAZY IT IS. MANNNN WE LOVE IT ANYWAY
17:32 or play it on the Wii U like a man
Its been 2 years but i think i know who the seven heroines
Its the races who built hyrule,
They are the *heroes* of the world
Hylian
Sheikah
Zora
Rito
Gorons
Gerudo
Korok
And the 8th one is either the forgotten zonai or the yiga traitors
The statues supposedly translate from gerudo to say "the seven sages" so....
Auramaster 206yt they remade it because the zonai were forgotten or the yiga betrayed all
Thats why there are 8 in the yiga hideout where the gerudo made it before the forgotten or the betrayal
Wait, “across the seas of time and distance”? Really? People are using that as a definitive reference to the adult timeline? That sounds more like a metaphorical use of “sea”
THANK YOU!
In glowing embers is also too ambiguous. Neither should be counted.
@@kjn3350 in glowing embers of twilight is still good enough to be considered a reference to twilight princess, sea of time and distance may mean ocarina of time
@@ProtoMekka Ocarina of Time was already referenced and... well, I mean, 'SEA'.
@@kjn3350 Still sounds like a metaphorical use of sea
Hyrule Warriors would be a good way to unify all the timelines since it has a bit of everything, but the portals do close at the end, which throws a wrench into the theory.
i was waiting for this video as soon as game theory posted! (love the vid btw! killed it as always!)
This was actually one of my favorite recent Game Theories, even if it is a bit flawed.
Oh no it's not just a little flawed. Ur's completely wrong. The ending of the game has everything undone. And by the Triforce no less. Plus Hyrule Warriors is a non-canon game.
5 Seconds resume:
"I don't like how GT use Hyrule Warrior merging of different games in different timelines, to explain how Nintendo could merge different timelines into one."
So de theory is busted.
No it’s “Hyrule Warriors doesn’t merge the timelines or fix anything, here’s a pile of evidence.”
MIDI Man No, it's more like "HW can't fix the timeline, here's one really strong argument explaining why," since all other so-called "evidence" can be explained away. For example, although the video is right in correcting all the mistakes MatPat makes, most of the flawed arguments MatPat made could be fixed by rewording the claims or changing minor details in said claims, so those refutations don't actually prove or disprove anything, even if they are correct. However, the one single argument at the end regarding the fact that the portals were closed at the end of the game and that Cia never actually merged the timelines, despite being only one line of evidence, it's more than sufficient to destroy MatPat's theory. It destroys the theory because minor adjustments to the theory can't fix it given this argument. Fixing it would just change the entire core idea of the theory altogether, but then it would just be a different theory as opposed to a fix of the previous theory. This is why NBC is ultimately right on this one.
After watching the whole video I just have to say. I still agree with mat Pat on this one. I mean I see some of your point in the video not every theory is perfect. But I honestly believe that what mat pay side makes more sense and that honestly fix's the timeline in more ways than one. Good video though.
How does it fix the Timeline? In fact it makes it more convoluted because somehow the wish of the Triforce was undone. The wish that restored everything back to normal. You get a Covergence that then splits and somehow, in SOME FUCKING WAY, converges AGAIN.
It doesn't make more sense it makes less.
It's like tying your shoes by going all the way around them, you can do it but it makes no sense.
Rule number one of Zelda theorizing.
Art style means nothing.
Similarities are always stated by the staff to be because they reuse assets all the time.
Yo dude congrats on 250k subs!
Loved the video!😄 The NBC ft Matpat collab is getting nearer 😊😊😊
To summarize the video: It could happen but it couldn't happen but it also could happen but it can't happen.
Pretty much. It could happen. But it didn't. And it can't.
You can’t fix the timeline without one thing: Zelda Monopoly
Idea, at the end of Zelda 2, when the triforce is reunited, Zelda wishes for peace and stability throughout time, unwittingly combining all 3 timelines. Still makes more sense than "hey, uh, the non-canon game is canon and solves everything somehow."
You've changed my mind about it, though there is one thing I think COULD have a different explanation. The Blue Tunic is blue because it is representative of the ROYAL FAMILY. However, any and all Tunics that were said to be made with the intentions of representing the GODDESS were green.And he received the Tunic of the Wild from a Goddess Statue. In short, the Goddess wanted it to be green, the king wanted it to be blue. Eventually the Hero was beginning to directly serve the Royal Family. So the Tunic of the Wild was kinda like the Goddess saying "THIS is what you were SUPPOSED to be wearing!" Also, it was given to Link as a reward for passing every trial and proving himself a worthy Hero fit to receive the Goddess's blessing. But that's all just a possibility.
The same happens with Twilight Link where the spirits give him the green tunic. Though I think it isn't necessarily what the goddess wants, just that it happens to be what the first hero wears so it's kinda sealed as this iconic garb.
Yo nbc you still have my pfp on disc lol
Great video. You made so many good counterpoints.
If Matpat is placing Hyrule Warriors in the timeline then what about Cadence of Hyrule? Haha!
What abbout the CDI zelda games .... Or the super smash games .... All this timeline discussion is pointless in my point of view
Luthia Moonlight FRQC Lmao, Smash Ultimate Canon to Zelda Timeline discussions suddenly.
Its sarcasm ....
Luthia Moonlight FRQC I’m aware, I was “lmao” at the mere thought of Smash being canon in the Zelda timeline.
These peaple are so obsess about a timeline that dont exist that one day im sure they will use them as evidence ... All the zelda game ave the same core universe but every game are stand alone except for some very pheaw case like Ocarina of time --> Majoras mask Wind waker --> phantom hourglass etc ... The only reason why a " official timeline " exist is because of obsess fanboys ... Breath of the wild is a reboot ... all the référence to previous zelda game are fan service ... One day someone will say than the link of Breath of the wild is every single previous link of previous zelda because you can avr their costume with amibo ..._ Breath of the wild is a reboot that is not supose to be in a timeline same with hyrule warrior that is a spinof full of fan service ... You think fire emblem warrior is canon to fire emblem ? You think the future persona 5 scramble is canon to the persona canon ? Of course not ... All these timeline speculation remind me all the old five night at freddy theory video .... A shit franchise with a story that lead noweare but to many idiot was trying to anderstand this shit wile it was only a bad writen story its like the Bible or quoran or any holy book ... To many stupid peaple try to make sense of something that is only bad writhing and self contradictory
When the King said blue was the symbol of the royal family passed down by generations, I think he's talking about blue being the colour for the triforce of wisdom. Blue represents the wisdom, green courage, red power. (this theme is reoccuring in BOTW) but it makes sense that blue would be passed down since the creation of the Triforce considering Zelda (royalty) always has the Triforce of wisdom. (Blue)
Since Hyrule Warriors Link got his tunic from Impa, maybe Zelda created the blue scarf for it too.
There isnt really anything thats being said that makes matpat just really wrong. I can totally see where he was coming from in his theory. Thats just like dragonball z and its time police thing it has in the games. All worlds are seperate but there is a way to get to them and worse case scenario they can merge but the concept brings them all together. Thats his point. That the existence of the sorceress makes this possible just like the time kai does in dbz. Like how goku can be a ssgod but in another tl he is ss4 yet in the games whis said it was possible that ssb goku is fully capable of ss4 because its a natural progression of a saiyan but doesnt focus on it. Its not canon but it still exist is what he is saying and because it exists and pulls from the canon worlds it can be seen/used as a nexus that brings the lore together. The concept of time manipulation has always been used to crutch plot holes
But there is a problem. Considering that Lana got upgrade from an observer to the safe keeper of Triforce at the end of the story, where is she in BotW and why had she handed over the Triforce back to the royal family. She clearly believed that it was safest with her since she didn't give it to HW!Zelda.
Illusion of Quality that’s as simple as HW Zelda didn’t need it but BOTW Zelda did. BOTW Zelda’s Parents both did not have the triforce so someone had to have it prior. I’m just saying. Anyone could be right or wrong but that part is easily explained. Other parts.. well... not so easy to explain
@@soullesscurve1783 Why dou you assume that Zelda's parents didn't have the Triforce? You can see the symbol on the tapestry from 10,000 years prior where the princess has it and it is said that the royal family has the sealing power displayed there which was later demonstrated by Zelda of BotW.
Illusion of Quality Illusion of Quality yes, they had it 10k years ago when they needed it. But if they had it immediately in BOTW she wouldn’t have to go on so many prayer quests to awaken it. The way I see it is they don’t always have it, they’re given it when needed. If they had it why didn’t Zelda’s dad use it? That’s my point I’m trying to make is in other timelines the royal family or Ganon or someone has a complete triforce or close to, in BOTW it doesn’t act like that so something is different. Not saying any theory is right or wrong, just saying we don’t know if they have it the entire time between the 10k year gap and we don’t know if Zelda is given it or always had it within her. I’m offering what is a possible solution to that issue, but neither of us can say we are right or wrong because it simply never states if the Royal family has the triforce the entire 10k years between or not
@@soullesscurve1783
Zelda went on a prayed quests because she didn't know how to use the power and not because she didn't have it yet. With her mother's death, she was left clueless and tried everything to figure it out. Unlike SS!Link she already had the pieces which is why nothing happened at the springs which she mistakenly taken as her prayers falling on deaf ears.
Her power is said to be "awaken" which clearly means that she had it all along.
Impa has established that this sealing power was tied to the princess and the King clearly didn't know how to use the power either but his wife did, which clearly means that this knowledge is passed down between female members of the royal family.
Just because something doesn't act exactly like previous iteration doesn't mean it isn't the thing. Masterworks clearly state that when Zelda protected Link, she made a silent wish and that's unlocked her power. We can assume that before she wished to unlock her sealing power but since there was nothing to seal, obviously nothing has happened. It appears that even though Triforce's existence in an unknown in BotW, it still functions the same.
Has anyone thought that maybe Hyrule Warriors is canon and merely introduces Lana and Cia as to show who COULD merge the timelines. And maybe JUST maybe the merge isn’t in any game but takes place off screen and that Hyrule Warriors was just Nintendo giving us an explanation to how it COULD be possible without actually using that plot point yet. Meaning that after Hyrule Warriors, Lana and Cia actually DID merge the timelines for some reason that we haven’t been given yet. And now Nintendo can continue forth with a brand new and reunited timeline.
Well clearly not nintendo who said it was not Canon.
Matpat's theory is best when it staus a theory. Hyrule Warriors *could* be what fixes the timeline into a single thread. There a couple things that need to be fixed, but the groundwork is definitely there, and it's easy to argue that Hyrule Warriors *should* be canon for the sake of the timeline once those few problems are fixed (and they are quite easy to fix). It'd be pretty simple to make a game with a similar plot or otherwise just includes the [permanent] merging of the worlds. Reusing assets is something Nintendo is plenty familiar with
...can't we just say, "it's all legend, folks are making it up?"
But it did happened
Not really, all of the games were more or less connected before BOTW, (barring the capcom ones, four swords and links awakening, four swords of which is a spinoff they just decided to add for some reason.) it's funny but BOTW has been both the most obscure game in the series and also the one that really goes out of it's way to reference past entries more then most others do.
I feel like we can't use anything from the botw2 trailer since we dont know enough about the game yet, and parts are still liable to change
Just wanna say that lady urbosa literally acknowledged that she heard that Ganon was once a gerudo, literally her words in BOTW, not mine
Congrats on 150k nbc!!!
The “sea of time” is not a reference to The Great Sea, time itself is sometimes said to be a sea, or a river.
The cutscene says "the seas of time and distance". The sea of time can be referring to Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask which prominently feature time travel, and the sea of distance can be a literal sea, such as the one in Wind Waker (or the ancient sea from Skyward Sword).
@@burg3rdud33 Yes but it is mostly a reference to what Sheik says about the Master Sword being a vessel to which travels the River of Time, both forward and backwards.
9:28 woahhhhh let me stop you right there I’ve been recently playing Skyward Sword and I think there’s a very simple explanation to it. Yes as stated at the beginning of oot Nayru Din and Farore created the earth amd triforce and gave it to Hylia to watch over and maintain but in Skyward Sword which obviously happened before Hyrule Warriors Hylia gives up her divine powers to be reborn as Zelda sooooooo, after this I’ve gotta feeling this made her not capable of watching over the triforce so this sorceress somehow comes into the picture I’m not sure how but I do think that saying the sorceress can’t be canon is wrong cause I strongly believe she can
She can but she isn't. The game takes place in another universe as was confirmed by Nintendo themselves. Plausible in canon doesn't mean it happened in Canon.
@@macabweu7682 I understand but even in the current universe of Zelda there’s no evidence suggesting she can’t exist either. Yes Hyrule Warriors is confirmed non canon but things and places in game and some past events ARE canon. Meaning while Nintendo will probably never use it for a main series game she could still be a figure behind the scenes
I loved that game theory video thanks for covering.
2:48
Funnily enough, though he didn't talk about it, it would potentially work in since all these locations were smashed together from the multiverse in Hyrule warriors. Ganons sealed tomb could have been moved into the combined world.
"The Seas of Time" is not a reference to Winder Waker.
Time has always been metaphorically referred to as a "Sea" or even multiple "seas" because just like the sea, there are rough times, and calm times. As for why multiple seas, is because everyone is having their own experiences, so while someone's experiencing a calm moment in their life, another can easily be feeling a rough moment.
"Over the Seas of Time" therefore refers quite clearly, to the vast timeline in which the trio, Zelda Link and Ganon, have been locked by fate, and destined to fight each other.
That, or it is referring to Ocarina of Time, and the timeline split that occurs there.
Believing that it is referring to anything else, is really clutching at straws.
No, the seas of time is a reference of Skyward sword
You guys forget that in breath of the wild, they have a sea too
I think it's a damn good theory. He has made a few shaky theories like BOTW being in downfall because Link folds his cap over slightly. I've been a big believer of either a timeline convergence for a while now (despite people saying that is impossible but also agree that fairies, Gods, floating islands, 8 foot tall dessert-dwelling gingers are possible) and it's good to see at least some logic behind it. Sure there's drawbacks, but so does every theory. And anyway it's the LEGEND of Zedla, not the wikipedia page of Zelda, stories can be interpreted differently over thousands of years. Hell if you were to get Christians from thousands of years ago, today's bible would be unrecognisable due to the numerous changes, contradictions and retcons in it now
The change in narrator at 1:45 took me more than a bit off guard!
Also, MatPat's team can come up with great theories, such as this one and the FNAF ones... and then there's the other ones, like his recent Hollow Knight "theory".
The variability in quality of their theories is extreme to say the least.
The thing is though, is that it's all just theories. Everyone keeps trying to take it as fact. :3
@@BrokensoulRider Of course it's just theories. I never implied otherwise.
It's just that some of them are drastically worse than the others (Hollow Knight comes to mind), as if the Game Theory team didn't do enough research, or perhaps they're grasping at straws in those instances. Nonetheless, we end up with sub-par content when that happens.
i interpreted matpats mention of the divine beast to be that the people who built the mechs named them divine beat in reference to wolf link. the original divine beat who defeated ganon.
Yes the devine beat the vegetable that stink hero of thyme turned into. In all seriousness probably not since it saved the twilight realm
Who came back to this after nintendo announced about Hyrule Warrior's : Age of Calamity?
Wow, calm down. He hasn't even fully recovered from mossbag's video yet.
I loved this! But you really need to do a theory about demise and his connection to Ganondorf.
I like the idea, and the way I see it the opening and closing of portals caused ripples in space time creating a spliced timeline. Not a merging of timelines, but a fourth, independent timeline
Hey so i just want to point one thing out you said here at 3:15 that
" *over the seas of time and distance* , [...] our hope rests in you to be forever by the hero's side" would reference the great sea in wind waker
but i think the phrase just means
" *wherever and whenever we need you* , [...]"
as in not a literal sea but metaphorically speaking. this occurs to me especially because "the seas of time and distance" sounds like a very abstract name for _one_ great ocean, aka the great sea.
Interestingly, if we would consider it this way the Ancient Ceremonial Blessing only references the child timeline. (well, as well as skyward sword and OoT)
I hope i didnt interpret things obviously false, if so please correct me ^^
Edit: Formatting
If you lissen to that cerimony again zelda is still talking while it moves to the champions. Fans have said if you isolate her talking she mentions the others as well.
@@mr.gamerant5081 Hmm, i would think that she'd say the exact things written in that Blessing
Not to say that it could not be, I just thought that what she says ingame and what was written there were the same thing
@@Sordorack umm watch NBC's recent timeline video like 3 months old. He mentioned it in there. That is were i got it from so I was just relaying the info.
Alright, I was expecting hmk to just be trashing Mat Pat the whole time. Glad he had a bit more of an open mind
I mean I watched Game Theorists video as well and honestly I’ve been a Zelda fan since I was a small child, Zelda was one my first games I completed and I’m old enough to say I’ve seen every single release come out. And when I looked though the timeline at the same time playing Hyrule Warriors and it makes a lot of sense but also it has its flaws, thanks for the video guys love the channel !
Everyone goes on about Zelda's speech in the memories....they tend to forget that what she says in Japanese, and the best logical source for information you can't find in English, _is different entirely_. While the spirit of what she says is generally similar, she does not rattle off hints to previous game titles as a source of "hints".