What are the Bargainer Statues? - Tears of the Kingdom Theory
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- čas přidán 31. 07. 2023
- What are the Bargainer Statues and how do they tie into Tears of the Kingdom's lore?
Special thanks to Sidier for providing translations for this video.
/ bapgei
...as well as LoruleanHistorian and LLLLLink for contributing in discussions, and Zoey for providing the in-game model.
Check out these other videos on the Bargainer Statues:
Moxie Watts "Is the Bargainer Evil?"
• Is the Bargainer Evil?...
CaptBurgerson "The Bargainer Conspiracy"
• The Bargainer Conspira...
Footage taken from:
myself :)
Outro Made by Espen - www.efolsen.com
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Special thanks to my Patreon supporters!
Patreon - / nintendoblackcrisis
#TearsoftheKingdom #zeldatotk #ZeldaTheory - Hry
Hyrulian soldiers holding onto existence to preserve a weapon that might be used to save the kingdom that they couldn't is such a good story element. Reminds me of the dead soldiers in Hyrule Castle in TP
Thats a really good comment I like this version 😄
All until Link comes along and chucks the weapon because it's not good enough.
Yeah, immediately had to think of TP, too.
@@FierceDeity35 Or fusing some random monster horn that’s many times stronger than it to it, turning it OP.
And yet you throw it out like trash
"Good... Evil... That's the futile perspective of narrow-minded beings." The bargainer statues are the most formidable adversary possible: The enlightened centrist.
Sure, the literal Demon King wants to completely destroy Hyrule and the people of Hyrule want to rebuild it, but there's gotta be some sort of compromise!
@@g.f.martianshipyards9328 Or more accurately, they take the side of the Demon King because "Those gosh dang hyruleans aren't seeking any form of compromise"
“You were the Chosen One! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them! Bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness!”
But alas, he did bring balance to the force did he not?
@@pancakes8670 Accurate. Point goes to you.
Those darn neutrals. :-)
Quick note, the Great Plateau Bargainer statue actually can talk to you through the temp of ruin’s Goddess statue before you drain the water. It says that it’s trapped under the water if you do so.
Good to know!
I think that the bargainer statues are the king or god bokoblin, we got normal, boss, then god bokos. And btw, it’s a joke! 😀😀😂
@@waldilkswhere did you get that idea
@@waldilksBut Gannon made them so I think he would take that role
@@NintendoBlackCrisis We could theorize that these statues are not controlled by specific entities,, but rather any otherworldly spirit that's strong enough can speak through them. I wonder if their ability to hijack the goddess statue has anything to do with the toppling of the mother statue in the forgotten temple.
My take is that the bargainer statues are supposed to prevent poes from being a problem. When they build up too much, aren’t gathered by a bargainer statue, then they become problems. The enemy poes are ones that make it back to the surface.
Good theory, given how large poes and grand poes are a thing
@@paperpopper2586and the larger poes change in color with hues of pink/red and the blue becoming more teal/tourquise. Almost like it would form a malicious entity if given enough time/souls
LOVE this idea!
That fits with the lore of many Yokais. According the Japanese myth, many of these monster are formed as a cumulation of restless souls that eventually take physical form
This does track, as we find "larger" Poes that seem to have conglomerated into one. Maybe when enough of them gather, they gain enough strength to force their way to the surface and start wreaking havoc.
There's also the Bargainer Statues' claim that Poes are morally neutral. I wonder if this means less that they have no moral alignment, and more that they can be of any moral alignment. While Poes have most often been enemies in the series, there have also been helpful ones. I do like the idea of the statues being indifferent to anything not related to the collection of Poes. Sort of like death itself; good, bad, it doesn't really matter much. Death will take you just the same regardless.
One thing I find interesting is that the poes are described as "spirit orbs." Which basically confirms the idea that what the Sheikah Monks were giving Link was the same sort of "stuff" as poes. And Hylia was using it. So...that's interesting.
That makes me a bit curious.
Not knowing the original Japanese, it could be possible that one means orbs shaped spirits and the other an orb of spiritual power (rather than a spirit itself). Does the Japanese use the same words for both?
Where are they described that way?
@@graceholbert2126 In the item description.
maybe the spirit orbs are shiekah monks souls, kept in the shrines for the hero to use to draw strength
the monks wasted away for 100 years for link's return, i imagine what they did next was willingly give their soul up to the hero for the sake of defeating calamity ganon, by letting him use their very existence to strengthen himself for that final battle.
and i think, afterward, that must mean they cease to exist. and much like the beliefs of buddhist monks in reality, they achieve the same goal; kill your ego, dissipate your being, become one with all that you see and all that you don't.
but even i don't understand why one would want that, but that's probably because i'm not a monk.
Re: Hylia and the statues, in Shinto, gods can create secondary copies of themselves called bunshin, which are separate entities but also still part of the main god, so the statues are all likely similar things, bunshin of Hylia and potentially others
THANK YOU. This is the sort of culturally dependent context that we in the western world so often miss in these games! I wish more analysts knew and discussed this. Any recommendations for channels that go beyond just the translations?
@@eroraf8637quest with Aaron, I really love
Gives more context to the "Kage Bunshin no Jutsu" in Naruto too
@@ja-melvinson7994
Hasn't uploaded in four months 😢
@@Alizudo he hasn’t but his videos are all so good. He’s probably still making his way through TOTK
There is only one other deity in BoTW and ToTK that has four eyes like the Bargainer: The Lord of the Mountain, Satori. Similar to how Hylia and the Bargainer have several statues across Hyrule, Satori has several cherry blossom trees as sights of worship. Both the Bargainer and Satori can help Link get special armor sets that make him resistant to types of damage. Both seem like morally grey beings, which might be the reason they have four eyes, because having two eyes might symbolize that you can only see the world as good vs evil.
I never would have put together that the groups of 3 soldiers in the depths were directly beneath Zelda's memorials 😭
An interesting detail is that the bargainer statue under the Great Sky Island Temple of Time's goddess statue is the only one to be quite obviously skewed, as if it had toppled over at some point. This seems to imply that when the goddess statue was moved into the sky its corresponding bargainer statue got physically affected as well.
Edit: For full accuracy I should mention that the bargainer statue linked to the Spring of Power's goddess statue is also skewed. But this one is also special in being the only bargainer not directly under its goddess statue. The Depths under the Spring of Power is solid rock with the bargainer a little ways away for some reason.
The Zonai Temple of Time in the past used to be situated on the Great Plateau, where the current Temple of Time is. Perhaps physically moving the Zonai Temple of Time also moved the Bargainer Statue?
@@v7aveyeah that’s what he said
I think the statue is slightly off cuz the one in land was surrounded by water I think so it was impassable in the depths
That demon face design looks an awful lot like the pig Ganon. Also, a group of dark magicians brings to mind the interlopers of Twilight Princess.
Also, a fun detail: the pointed hat of a witch or wizard is said to funnel magic from the heavens into the head of the person, hence the conical funnel-like shape.
I think the bargainer statues look the most like the old man (king rhoam) from botw
that hat has nothing to do with us. it originates from an old profession called an "alewife", which the church branded as malignant for... some reason.
Though it's rare, you can get dark clumps from killing evermeans in the depths
That's interesting...
The trees were tired of deforestation and global warming, so they took matters into their own hands
@@StarlightNkyrayou missed the opportunity to say. Take matters into their own Branches.
I feel the Evermeans are taking their revenge on us doing the Tarrey Town quest in BotW, because we sure chopped a lot of wood for that one LOL
its also a parallel to the monster extract they rarely drop on the surface
@ximeria2435 it could also be revenge for their fallen comrades when the lucky clover gazette was being set up.
Love to see Tears of the Kingdom Theorizing starting to ramp up!
I'm also glad to realize how long the community gave everyone to beat the game for themselves before dropping theories containing major spoilers, given the usual push to jump on things asap.
My big question is why they have an evil face on their back. The one under the forgotten temple is fully shown and is just massive
I think they all share the same height ,but as we can see in the game most of them are buried
@@danyzg_2053I know that
Fashion?
to ward off evil spirits
I straight up thought I was gonna have to fight it the first time I had the idea to check what was under the forgotten temple. Was a he'll of a nail biter as I walked up to it..
I've had a personal theory about these statues, especially after spotting that giant face on the back of it. Really glad you pointed that out too, not seen too many people talk about it
We know that the zonai culture worshiped 3 animals, the dragons, the owls and the boars. This fact being even further stated in totk with the labyrinths being overseen by 3 voices who claim to be the rulers of these animals (who these 3 are is another question). Now the dragons are easy to understand, their statues are all over the place and the dragons themselves are almost god like so they would be worshiped
The owls, i've come to believe that these are infact referring to the satori line of creatures as all of these have owl faces. Design wise they also come off as angelic with a mysterious power, so i can see how these too would be worshiped like deities as well
So what about the boars, thats where the bargainer statues come in as i think the boars are infact the giant face on the back of these. To me, the face looks like a bokoblin, which does usually have boar like features in their design. So i think that perhaps before ganon happened, the bokoblin line of creatures might have been seen as like guardians of the underworld perhaps taking on the guise of these bargainers. This kind of role would be adequate reason to be worshiped. But when ganon came, he took control of them and they became just monsters. This could also be why the zonai culture sought to erase all the boar statues they had built as i'm thinking perhaps the boar faction of the zonai was infact the barbarian tribe from faron, and why the barbarian armor has what looks like a bokoblin skull on it
There's still a few wrinkles to iron out with this, like why the bargainer statues actually look like robed figures if they're bokoblin style creatures, why the ruler of boars still seems to be a respectable voice and why the ancient hero has all 3 symbols on his outfit (seriously i dont get that one, the boar faction should have been long since exiled by then). But i still believe i'm onto something with this
I also think youre on to something, i read another comment on some other video saying something similar, but they said something about the barbarian armor being from hylians who worshipped the zonai, building typhlo ruins and encasing original zonai structures in stone in a more rough, crude way. The original zonai ruins can be seen in dracozu river and tobios hollow underneath destroyed stone surrounding them. The descendants of these hylians might be the inhabitants of lurelin village, seeing as the zonai swirl found on ruins can be seen throughout the town
Also, to back this up, the Bargainer statue underneath the temple of time had its eyes removed and sealed away, and the structure surounding the statue with the scaffolds going up to it's face, the elevator perfectly fit to transport one of it's eyes and the mincarts going towards each of these chasms where the eyes are in the surface suggest that the zonai could have done this to it trying to remove all signs of boars in their culture
@@zachhiggins3321 It seems to more be along the lines of power tends to attract evil more often than the other two virtues. That in itself seems to cause the downfall of power in the representation. Evil tends towards power but then ultimately toward destruction.
The hero in the Zelda series is supposed to be a perfected being. A person who has gained a balance of the three virtues, so the hero's aspect makes sense to be wearing the symbols of all three virtues.
@@zachhiggins3321 Old habit from back in the days. When the concepts the goddesses and Triforces represented were translated as virtues.
@@zachhiggins3321 Balance between the three is important and that is one of the reasons why the Triforce splits when an unbalanced individual attempts to touch it.
There is nothing inherently evil to any of the three essences. The goddesses themselves seem to be completely neutral.
Just power tends to attract evil in Hyrule as in real life. The heroes tend to represent courage when compared to their counterparts, but usually embody all three by the end of their journey.
I've noticed that the art style featured on the depths armor set is very similar to the illustrations on the back of Wind Waker Ganondorf's robes.
The depths armor reminds me of Zant's armor from Twilight Princess.
The Depths set is similar to the Bargainer, and both remind me of the Poe Collector from OoT.
@@nightigalyes! It totally reminded me of Zant, but I haven’t heard anyone else talking about that!
The missing eye is also reminiscent of the fused shadow and midna’s helmet.
@@nightigal It reminds me of a mix of both honestly.
I’m glad you covered this one so early on! Realizing that something that WASNT Hylia could speak through the Goddess Statues felt almost frightening when I first encountered it. It casts doubt on if Hylia was even the one we spoke with in the first place, even as far back as BotW. But having heard your analysis I am starting to see the statues perhaps less like “the actual person”, and more like, a conduit. Like, a phone or computer screen. The Goddess Statue ISN’T Hylia, but it IS a way of getting in contact with her. Perhaps the same can be said of the Bargainers. The Horned Statue seems to be the only one who is an actual being trapped in that physical location.
This is all muddied, however, by the fact that the Goddess Statues aren’t fully aware of each other, or even that they speak of each other as separate entities. The fact that any statues, let alone the 3 representing Power Wisdom and Courage, refer to the Forgotten Temple’s as “the Mother Goddess Statue”, makes it seem far more literal. And besides, what would Hylia have to gain by restoring a statue so isolated and hidden that it’s literally in a “Forgotten” Temple? Is giving Link that replica of the Goddess Sword really so important? The statues sounded almost distressed about it, as if Hylia herself had “fallen, and couldn’t get up” lol. While a god who wished to watch over and bless their people may have reason to want temples and methods of communing with them to be intact all over the land, the Forgotten Temple is quite literally… forgotten. While it was *once* a place of worship, it no longer functions as such. Therefore, if it was just Hylia wanting to connect to “her people”, the Mother Goddess Statue would serve very little purpose.
Like you said towards the end, maybe the devs just didn’t put that much thought into it and just wanted a quest where you went to all 3 springs and got a reward lol. Hard to say. But it certainly does have bizarre lore implications that I don’t see a fully satisfying answer towards
For the yiga story, they probably had someone get sniped by a black boko or something and didn't realize it (its dark) and then the soul from them was immediately taken by the bargainer. Makes sense to me
Very possible.
I also theorize that they might be dangerous to those with impure souls and/or viewed the Yiga as some sort of lost souls (sinners are often called "lost souls" so maybe it's something like that, ) but what you said is plausible too, much like how many dieties, myths and legends came about because of coincidences people didn't know how to explain otherwise
@@homerman76
I had a similar thought.
Yes but didn’t they not notice the difference between good and evil? Why attack the followers of Ganon and not Link? Well it could also be false rumors spread by the yiga clan but I severely doubt it. @@homerman76
One theory is that the Yiga, especially Kogha, have lived unnaturally long. The Bargainer Statue might not take kindly to being cheated.
I love that the bargainers are essentially the psychopomps of the Zelda world (psychopomp being the general term for any entity who ferries souls between life and death, including the Grim Reaper but also Charon, Hermes, the Egyptian underworld gods, and the Valkyries of Norse mythology). Honestly I'm not sure what their deal is, or if they even have one outside of being psychopomps, but they're still so so cool regardless.
Also I find it notable that the bargainers are the ones who look closest to Poes in previous games, while the poes in this one are more akin to Will O' the Whisps, the little balls of flame/light known in Celtic folklore as spirits (tho as I recall they aren't strictly spirits of the dead, necessarily, or at least not always). Having this kind of appearance does lend a lot of credence to the statue's description of them as "pitiful beings"; it's like Link is gently picking each one up and handing it to the statue, like releasing a firefly into a quiet meadow.
Maybe I misremembered something but I thought one of the bargainer statues mentioned that the reason they needed Link to gather poes was because the statue at Lookout Landing was stolen from underground and the power of the statues still underground to return poes themselves was weakened. Same with how the sacred spring goddess statues sensed the mother goddess statue was toppled and won't take the light blessings until you fixed it. In a game all about coming together, of course having one entities in a chain being removed would have major disruptions until restored or replaced.
yes you missremembered... but that should be cool
I have to wonder if those random tiny Bargainer statues are connected to the random Goddess Statues you find not in settlements.
One goddess statue is in a well in Akala. It has no statue beneath it, but it is a goddess statue not in a settlement. Considering we have two bargainers randomly on the surface, perhaps one used to be where that goddess statue was?
The other is on Dragon Head island. It’s strange how that Goddess statue is there with no bargainer statue like the Great Sky Island does. Could the goddess statue have been paired with one of the other two?
Edit: Also, doesn’t the Bargainer statue himself look like a giant Poe portrayed from past Zelda games? Aside from the four eyes, he is wearing a pointed hood just like the poes do.
I forgot some version of the poe have a pointed hat of sorts, I'm too use to the rounded hoods they wear in OoT and MM
Everyone talks about the four eyes, what about the 2nd nose?
Seriously though... I feel like I've read or seen something like that somewhere, but can't remember where.
@@homerman76: True, though some Poes are wearing a hood that is pointed, but the point sags behind them in OoT and Mm. What is even more, some have double pointed hats. Lol!
@@verdantmistral442: Not certain. The Phantom Hourglass Poes and Twilight Princess Poes do have noses (though the latter in particular resemble corpses, so it’s not prominent). Interestingly, too, in Wind Waker, Poes are wearing masks.
The design of the Bargainer statues reminds me of Poes' design from some Zelda games especially Wind Waker and Twilight Princess (hooded version).
Definitely creepy that they are only found below very important Goddess Statues (the Springs, the Temples of Time, the Forgotten Temple)
Specifically below Great Goddesses and the Mother Goddess. The only exception is the Sky Temple of Time Goddess statue.
Kind of seems to imply that the Sky Temple might have had a Great Goddess Statue at some point.
@@verdantmistral442well, there was a Great Goddess Statue in the Sky before returning to the land...
@verdantmistral442 the sky temple of time statue actually does count as a great goddess statue. You can submit a picture of it to the stable that asks for a picture of one and it works.
@@poke_dragon24 Now that is a very interesting design decision...
@@poke_dragon24 OH! Neat catch!
I wonder if that means the statue being small is a "bug". Like someone forgot to enter in the scale parameters and it defaulted to the small size...
16:46 slight correction, Dark Clumps can also be obtained from Evermeans in the Depths
Yes, someone finally pointed out the weirdness of the raised-arm statues in the Depths!
One thing I notice is that the bodies of the large Bargainer Statues rather resemble the statues of the unknown tribe in the Depths. Indeed, the mural Josha recovered and reconstructed indicates some relation to the Bargainer statues, as they point in a chain towards the Abandoned Central Mine, which is built into the Great Plateau Bargainer Statue. There even seems to be some analogue of the monstrous "face" on the backs of the Bargainers visible on the backs of the unknown tribe statues.
Finally, a video where I'm presumably far enough in the game to enjoy! I've been moving so damn slow.
Aight, this is gonna be kinda messy since I just came up with it and wanted to get it out there.
The way the Bargainers take souls from you reminds me a lot of Astor's "malice core" taking the souls of Yiga clan members and even those of Astor's fellow cult members to fuel its power and create seemingly stronger versions of the Blight Ganons.
And in exchange for Poes, the Bargainers give you Dark Clumps - which, as it appears, are also what fuels Phantom Ganon and the Gloom Hands by an extend, which appear to be directly related to Ganondorf himself.
Furthermore, both the Depths Outfit and the robes worn by Astor's Cult do share similarities in design with both being hooded, overall black/purplish clothes.
Could it be possible that Astor's cult is a new version of the cult that likely sacrificed Poes to the Bargainers? And if that is the case, does that make the Bargainers accomplices of Ganon or even Demise? Again, Astor's Malice Core thingy uses Souls to fuel its power, while the Bargainers give you Dark Clumps, which are only obtained through Phantom Ganon, aka an embodiment of Ganondorf in the form of his Gloom, which appears to be a different form of Malice.
Again, this is really messy, but perhaps there's some *depth* to it (pun intended lol)
Really awesome thoughts, as dark if true. I was kind of thinking that it's entirely possible that Link is unwittingly feeding a demonic entity other people's souls, and that (among other things), the asserted claim that the Bargainer Statues are true neutral is a lie. I can't help but to wonder if these statues are either using Poes to parasitically keep themselves alive, or if they're trading them away behind Link's back, to other darker forces (possibly even Ganon, whose phantoms, as you noted, literally drop Dark Clumps). That the Bargainer Statues have a demonic face on their backs would strongly suggest that, if nothing else, the Bargainer Statues are two-faced - literally, and quite likely figuratively, as well. While Link bargains away other people's souls to front of the state speaking to him, the face on his back might be at the same time nefariously peddling them away to other entitites. Whatever the case may be, I don't trust them, and I do think, if nothing else, they're relics of an ancient and almost nearly forgotten death cult from many years prior, who were literally buried away into the Depths for eons, until the Upheaval returned them to the consciousness of the present day Hylians (most notably, the Depths researchers who discovered them), thus, in a sense, resurrecting them through being remembered, if only distantly.
I also made the connection with Astor! Can't believe someone else had the same thought.
I went so far to believe that Astors Cult worshipped or even built them. We don't know how far that cult traces back in time.
Edit:
They are simply called "Magician Statue" in my language. And well... The Hylian Cult concists of sorcerers or magicians If you want.
Cool thing i might have noticed about the Depths Set, i believe longer insect like marking is meant to be a Centipede. In japanese mythology, the centipede is seen as a symbol of impurity or corruption, so i feel like that fits the mood of this set very well
Ive thought a lot about this topic and heres some of my notes:
1: What did you do for all of Breath of the Wild? That's right; return *spirits* to the goddess statues; its just these were given to you by shiekah monks instead of found in the depths.
2: The bargainer under the great platuea looks to have been excavated by the Zonai - almost like it was buried there before being uncovered by the zonai. It feels as though it was there long before there the zonai in their "modern" appearance - though they could still be associated with the proto-zonai that were attatched to the original zonai ruines in Faron?
2b: Speaking of mines; Are the depths transformed by the surface or is the surface transformed by the depths? Where theres a mountain on the surface theres a *mine* underground. Where theres an unlikely spiral-shaped sandbar on the surface theres - you guessed it; another mine. Could they have used this connection to somehow transform the land above?
3: The Godess Statues all refer to each other as sisters while the Bargainers all refer to each other as Brothers. I'm not sure what this means; but it is interesting.
4: The presence of the healing spring under the great plateau mirroring the location of the shrine of ressurection potentially makes that bargainer / goddess pair also associated with a sacred spring? Its a little more indirect but also still interesting.
Fascinating idea... stuff like the spire the Akkala Citadel was built into could have been raised by pit mining the depths originally? Sign. me. up.
I wonder whether the Zonai were responsible for scattering the central Bargainer's eyes. The chamber it's in is underneath the ground level of the mine, and the bargainer's room isn't particularly ornamented. Maybe it had to be entrapped or imprisoned and disabled in order for something the Zonai were doing to work.
I think the whole "lose your soul" story in the Yiga notebook might have been from someone mishearing the Bargainer statues. Since offering lost souls sounds pretty similar if you hear it once randomly in the dark.
It makes more sense than mishearing "explore in underpants" lol
bro jumpscared me at 4:19. i thought my phone was loading
Fun fact: the bargainer statues' name in French is "genie statue" (statue de génie). Same with the Majora's mask fierce deity outfit, named "Evil Genie" (mauvais génie). Well, that's in the french Canadian version anyways, in the other french translation from France, the outfit has the same name as the Japanese version.
Les statues sont aussi appelées "génie" dans TotK en français métropolitain, mais j'ai pas fini Majora's Mask pour vérifier le nom du boss final
@@stereoplayerdx2308 Le masque d'Oni Link/Fierce Deity c'est "Dieu Démon" en VFEu
i guess there are a lot of genies in Quebec
In spanish they're called "estatua de brujo" it means Sorcerer statue.
@@takfrosty oh wow, that's interesting. I heard they are called maje statues in Russian
The "ma" in "majin" is the same kanji in "mahō shōjo" (magical girl). It definitely sometimes just means magic. And since a bargainer statue is neither good nor evil, it must just be a "Magic Man", like the Heart song. Cue the synth solo!
I always got a Charon vibe from the statues, a sort of ferry man to the afterlife. There's also a sort of Ancient Egyptian underworld vibe to the lost poes. In the darkness outside of paradise, souls can get lost if their names are erased in the world of the living (for instance).
These are probably just coincidences, since Nintendo rarely if ever takes inspiration from mythology outside of Japan, but I think it's interesting, nonetheless.
One symbol you mention (though not by name) is the concept of Ofuda charms, which are said to serve as vessels for the protective blessings of Kami, while modern depictions also use them as seals or as the vessels for casting spells (as popularized by Naruto, of course). In the former context, it makes less sense to think of the dark clumps as 'sealed darkness' as it does them containing the 'blessing' of darkness. One concept that the Bargainer statues highlight is how they are neither good nor evil, just part of the world with a function that needs completed. Likewise, darkness itself while it may be the antithesis to Light, itself it not evil, as neither is light good. Light and Darkness are two sides of the same coin, which have come to be associated with 'good' and 'evil' respectively as a matter of how each side was revered. Dark clumps may be left behind when you defeat evil gloom hands or Ganon's phantoms, but the clumps themselves are not evil, they are merely the form of darkness left behind when the evil of which of which they were part of was vanquished.
Likewise, the depths armor carries a similar blessing; one not of evil, but just of darkness.
That was a very fun rabbit hole video I found the Bargainer Statues to really stand out too. When I got the The Depths Armor I had assumed it was simply an homage to the Poe Collector. I thought that was where you were going, but you never really talked about the similarities. One eye, pointed hat, bead necklace and ragged clothes. The Poe Collector fit a lot of your speculations on the origins of The Depths Armor.
I figured the Yiga entry was more a case of one Yiga wandered close enough to a statue to hear it say it wanted souls (poe) and they ran away and told their fellows, and then like any game of phone tag the message that eventually got written down was very different from the original message. Keeping in mind that the Yiga can see poes from a distance but they vanish when they get too close they wouldn't have any souls to offer but their own and wouldn't even know what a poe soul was.
The underworld in Greek mythology is depicted as being underground iirc. so it's entirely possible that the Depths is the underworld
Except the statues say they return poes to the afterlife, that wouldn’t make sense if the depths were the afterlife
The Depths is more like purgatory than a true afterlife.
No I don’t think that’s it either it’s clear the zonai have been in the depths evident by all the mines and technology if the depths were a purgatory the zonai would have no way to get there and set up those mines it’s also important to note that zonaite the thing that powers there technology is only.l found in the depths and on sky islands none on the surface so I find it hard to believe that the zonaite which powers their technology would be in purgatory or a place like it
@@ArtemisWasHereyou just took them from the afterlife, they want them back >:[
also hello my fellow artemis
Similar to the underwhere
In the german version these statues are referred to as 'Magier Statue' which translates either to 'Mage Statue' or 'Magician Statue'. I think both of these options fit, though I'm personally leaning a little more towards magician, but that's just my personal preference. I don't know if that detail helps anyone but I thought it's worth mentioning anyway.
The french version describes them as genies ("Statue de génie")
The emblem on the talisman texture looks like Ganondorf's face. We know monsters have been around since before he was born, so it makes me curious about who created these talismans.
The bargainer statues were to me one of the most interesting things in totk. I never really got behind what exactly it was, it was so vague, but was implied seemed so weird, I loved it.
Great video!
The fact the bargainer statues are beneath goddess statues COULD suggest them to be the basic guardian to the gate of the afterlife or be linked to hylia somewhat.
i think the runes on the depths outfit are a spell of warding. If you make food with the dark clump, you get 'warding' food.
The Depths outfit reminds me of the Subrosians.
Also, i just had a weird thought, triggered by how the Bargainer Statues remind me of the Great Spirit robot from Bionicle, within which is an entire world that houses islands and biomechanical life forms. What if the Bargainer Statues ARE the afterlife, being a place within which the poes live?
I believe the unknown Race statues are supposed to Mogma's from Skyward Sword. If you think about it, who knows what Mogma's kept hidden or even knew of that was underneath "Hyrule".
That's a good thought. I wondered recently if the Mogmas invented Ascend or maybe inspired it. They could have been the primary users of the "ascend" towers in the Depths. (They may have made a better version to phase through space as their culture advanced)
figured you would cover this topic at some point, excited to watch!
This was actually such a cool video, thanks for making such an interesting inside look at the Bargainer Statues!!
This is the thing ive been most curious of since playing totk, nice video 👏 i never noticed the connection between dark clumps and the depths armor
Object possession isn't a new thing to the Zelda universe. Flying pots, Spirit Tracks...
Psychopomp. That's the word for them. And I love playing as assistant psychopomp. In addition to the "Korok Space Program" I also participate in "No Poe Left Behind." I also notice that the poe bargainers are related to the Poe salesman in Ocarina that you trade with for the last bottle.
"Ganon, did you know?
God of death love apples."
-Link
I always loved the concept behind the Reapers weapon not being for the humans they claim. But a tool meant to defend them as it guides them to salvation.
The implication our souls are not safe once free from flesh is absolutely awesome.
It would also imply the Reaper sometimes isn't successful.
It's really very interesting! I love your videos and your theories so much.
I don't know if this can help you more, but I just wanted to add two small information almost official: the mother statue did not exist at the time of Rauru (we can see that in a dragon tear memorie, and an artwork in the artbook), and the armor of the depths originally had to have, according to the artbook, zonai patterns instead of patterns of Dark Clumb.
So, that confuses me. Hopefully we can learn even more in the DLC! But we are already well advanced! X)👏
Maybe the Zonai before Rauru and Mineru were not all good. Some of them could've worshiped this "death god", and ended up becoming an almost different species alltogether, performing dark rituals and such. They might have suddenly emerged from the depths, engaging in a war with hylians in the past successfully being sealed away by Light Zonai (?) and sent to the Twilight realm (this could explain the similarities between Zonai and Twili creations as shown in one of Moxie Watts videos). Also, this doesn't necessarily depends on TOTK's placement in the timeline; whether Rauru was the first king of Hyrule from the Mythical Age of Skyward Sword or a New Age 10k+ years in the future, in both cases Rauru comes after the era of chaos, just when Twili are banished and the Sacred Realm is sealed.
I know this is a look into the Bargainer Statues, but there was a brief note in your video about the guiding statues. I've thought about something very distinctive about them that I haven't seen anyone else questionning or considering...
They're all members of a currently existing species that guide the way through the depths to somewhere, except for one in particular which is an 'unknown' species in the Eldin region... I think it's a Mogma statue, representing the original inhabitants of Eldin before the Gorons moved in. Which dates these statues to being a lot lot lot older than even Rauru and the Imprisoning War, because the Great Sage of Fire from then is a Goron, and not a Mogma.
I'd love to know your thoughts on this.
The Armor of the Depths also reminds me of Garo from Majora's Mask. As of now i don't see much connection between the Garo and the Bargainer but i still really liked that this armor looks similar and now i can play as Garo Link.
To die without leaving a corpse... That is the way of us Garo...
Nice to have you back in theorizing! Awesome theory and mysterious topic =)
I’ve been waiting for one of you guys to get to this!!
Recently, I have been finishing a certain anime in which the villain uses golem totems in his stead; My personal belief is that the dark clump is a golem totem, made of monster guts and a spiritual parchment. This would explain why Ganon may be able to produce them, as he is a skilled sorcerer.
I just finished the game last weekend so I've been bingeing your Livestream, it was so fun to go through it with you! Shout out to Jeff, the best horse in the land.
the bargainer statues honestly freak me out. they were creepy the first time i saw one of the big ones, sure- but the fact that they’ve stolen at least one yiga’s soul just for walking near them makes them cross into outright threatening. link is lucky he’s a very special boy
There's a fan theory that he got soul-stolen because the Yiga might be tampering with their own lifespans. The Collectors are above Good and Evil, but they might not like someone "breaking the rules".
I had to rewatch this on my big screen TV and I'm so glad I did, I usually just listen to them but the cinematic edits you've done got me feeling like I'm watch a BBC documentary ❤ will watch these on my TV mote often, probably gonna rewatch some old vids to see what else I've missed.
Side note damn I've been feeling more anxious lately and this topic both being especially cool and interesting but also pretty spooky and unerving definitely not for light listening. But that's not on you I've just been more sensitive as of late, your voice is super chill and comforting.
Ooh! Another thing, the Tunic of memories could also be linked to death like the other items seeing as you could say it belonged to the wearer (Link of course) did kinda die. There's another theory about Link's death and the connection to the poes found(in the depths) in the chamber where Link was revived.
There is someone I was immediately reminded of when wearing the armor of the depths and that is the poe collector from OoT.
Adding to what you said about there being someone prior to Link offering poes to the bargainer statues, I think the poe collector fits this role and the outfit could be an early version, totk having a more fleshed out designed. You can see the resemblance in the hood and noticing how when wearing it only one of Link's eyes is visible from a front view.
Very fascinating and engaging video, as always!!
I remember the Statue under the Great Plateau saying that because it lost its eyes it could not return poes to the afterlife, allowing a great buildup of poes in the depths.
After Link helps the statue get its eyes back he enlists link to help expedite the process of getting all those poes, for a reward of course.
I imagine the statues act as a sort of beacon for poes to go to the afterlife, after the poes arrive the act as a sort of Charon who ferries souls to the underworld in Greek Mythology.
What if, and hear me out here, Ganondorf was the one responsible for removing the statues eyes in the first place, as he could then use all these poe souls to possess or create undead or even live monsters (maybe this is how the Blood Moon works) and he would not be able to if the statues were constantly ferrying souls away from his reach.
Also what if that statue the depicts an unknown race is of a tokay from Oracle of Ages as it appears lizard like.
With each bargainer statue being under a goddess statue thing. The horned statue is roughly under the bargainer statue in lookout landing.
Great and in depth theory as always NBC :)
I have been waiting for months for your assessment on this. Super stoked this is here.
I did notice the connection between the statues and their locations, although I wondered why the Plains statue seemed a bit random. Jerin being able to hear the Horned Statue makes perfect sense as the Sheikah are naturally more in touch with such things. The Yiga have many notes of the variety seen of the statue's description. Whether the author is paranoid or dismissive of the rumor in question (there are examples of both) it is a helpful hint or a tip to investigate.
I have an interesting theory about Poes. In the real world their design and function is of course suited for a game's particular needs. For the in-game lore though, there is a way that both the statue's explanation and previous history/descriptions can both be true. There are many types of ghosts and spirits seen throughout the games, some enemies, others not. Excluding a few enemies and NPCs, the thing that all of them have in common is light. Sometimes this light is seen as fire-like wisps that surround the dead, such as what accompanies the Champions in Breath of the Wild. The other form it takes is a Lantern. All Poes carry lanterns. I only know of four characters that carry lanterns after they died. Those are Dampé the Gravekeeper (Ocarina of Time version), King Rhoam, and the Composer Brothers Sharp and Flat. Sharp and Flat do attack after you read their headstones, but it is in defense of the Royal Family Tomb. They sort of blur the line because they can be considered Poes not only because of the tragic manner in which they died, but also due to how they appear after you defeat them. Just like the enemy Poes in the game, their lantern breaks revealing a wispy spirit. Poes in general don't attack unless you get too close. Some even run from you. Keeping in mind that there is a spirit within the lantern providing its light, I see two possibilities. One is simply that a monster captured a random person's spirit within the lantern, and the monster became known as a Poe because of the association. The other, which is a bit more sinister, involves a monster being formed from a person's anger, regret, and all the other things in the old Poe description, with that person's soul being kept in the lantern carried by the monster. It could be both since there are examples of ghosts/spirits being trapped in Zelda that needed help.
Now as to whether Ganon(dorf) has anything to do with it remains to be seen, but I could definitely see him encouraging the more restless of the lost spirits to act on their discontent, thus using them to further his own devices. Byrne from Spirit Tracks wanted power and so betrayed his teacher by joining the enemy in order to gain it. In the end however he realized his mistake and made things right, much like Hilda in A Link Between Worlds. Being the master manipulator that he is, he would have little to no trouble convincing them making the second scenario more likely.
And that is my idea on how it can be both monster and neutral. I forgot to mention that when defeated some Poes can be placed in a bottle, and when you do so it is called "capturing a Poe". Since that is the case, it would be very easy to get some for ill intent if Ganon desired to do so. Maybe it is both. Ganon convinces restless spirits to do his bidding, and enslaves those who refuse in one way or another.
I'm shocked you didn't mention Wizzrobes, once. The statues are filled with references to them.
I had an idea, so you know how the Poes look like the sort of spirits poeple turn into when in contact with the Twilight realm in Twilight Princess. It's kinda crazy and a little lot stretch out but What if the Depths are Lorule but something happened to it similar to Zant conquering Hyrule with the Twilight realm transforming Loruleans into poes somehow ?
7:34 this raises a question. What if you have full hearts when you beat the bosses
Good stuff man!
You mentioned that the Tunic of Memories isn’t death related but Link technically died (or nearly died) in that tunic during the Calamity and his memories went with him
consindering majora's mask's general themes of death (link's masks containing the spirits of the dead, each zone representing one of the five stages of grief, etc) i have to wonder if the bargainer statues are connected to the four giants in any way. the giants do, in a sense, help you put the spirits of majora (literally) and skull kid (figuratively?) to rest, just like how the bargainer statues describe their own work re: poes, and when you look at the bargainer statues that aren't buried (the ones under the forgotten temple/great plateau), they're HUGE
i committed the cardinal sin of commenting before finishing the video so if the video makes any of this information redundant feel free to blow me up with your mind
I've been waiting for a NBC tears theory! I'm excited!
Gods of death, eh? I wonder if they really like apples...
*Ryuk has entered the chat*
🍎📓 🖊 🥔 🍟
I can’t help but notice how the Depths in TotK are similar to the Ender and Nether Realms and the Deepdark found in Minecraft
I think there might be a connection between the Depths and the Twilight realm, going off of the TP Manga the Twilight realm is mentioned to be a sort of mirror to Hyrule. They also depict the Twilight realm to have droopy mushrooms replacing the trees, It's just something to think about. (I am aware that the Manga's aren't canon)
Maybe the area in Tp we where at was the "sky islands" in TOTK, then the depths are the actual hyrule of the Twilight realm
The power of the dead in Zelda is one of those things that warrant further study. In the Man’Yoshu, one of the oldest collections of Japanese poetry, is this little blurb: “when you are alone you can see the complete blueness of the human soul ( Hitodama ). You would think this the sorrow on a rainy night. “ and this seems to be the basis for Poe at their origin, alongside Onibi ( demon fire, more like will o wisps ). In Japanese lore, after a few days, the soul wanders out of its deceased human body to seek out either those close to it, or nearby temples to pass on from. Hitodama also become entertained with tales of Japanese Onibi ( Will ‘o Wisps ), mischievous spirits who use their light to confuse and misdirect, likely coming from phosphorous gas released in Japanese marshlands catching fire.
So essentially, in Japan we have two nearly identical kinds of spirit folklore, one of spirits searching their way home, and one of spirits getting others lost, and I think in the context of the Bargainer statues, these beings are one and the same. All ghosts, purpose lost after years and years, their loved ones spirits to, their brethren. But trapped beneath the earth, having wandered or been forced below over the years. I think for their wicked appearance, the bargainers are just trying to put an end to the senseless confusion. Their location coinciding with temples means they provide a direct path to them for ghosts. Go directly up, and you will find your new home and purpose.
It also goes without saying that trading these souls for things isn’t as strange as it seems. Poe in lore have always been about the inability to let go, but as the saying goes, you can’t take it with you, even your self. Plus, spiritual energy seems to be something trapped in luminous stones, and may also be the power source for Shiekah tech like the Blue Fire that you, like poes, have to take from lantern to lantern to reach the main tech labs. The divine beasts also seem to stop functioning specifically when the champions move on, defining spirit as a sort of energy source.
As for the set itself that you can get, I think the Depths Set as a whole is actually supposed to be a reimagining of the Poe Collector from OoT, pulling from the the Majora Mask official art that was used in the OoT remake. A long, reaper esque, dark hood with a point, over another, simpler fabric. Adorned with a chunky necklace and a dark, front facing sash, and of course, only one eye visible. While the design for the Depths set is certainly more intricate, with its wrappings covered in writing and it’s intricate robe, I think it’s clearly trying to pull inspiration from the Poe Collector. Who else in the past would have offered up souls to these statues?
So a few notes here. First: The outfit and the clumps: The texture you highlighted are bandages. Much like the talisman, they seem to be there to seal the darkness. Whatever is contained in the dark clumps, it's contained by bandages and we don't actually see whatever flesh is inside. Second: You bring up the devil statue, at best he gives a hint at what could have been the method of creation for the statues, as he says he was imprisoned, but that's all for him: He cannot leave his statue. And lastly: The Dark Link outfit is right there. You can see it as a random mention, or you can consider why it's the first thing they offer you. You talk about sorcerers, but let's not forget the sorcerers that were represented as Dark Link in Twilight Princess: The Interlopers.
My question is who removed the eyes of one of the bargainer statues? This particular side-quest led me to suspect that they are not as benign as they come across, that and the fact that you offer them poes...as though the transaction is some kind of sacrifice...nice video!
you offer them poes for rewards like armors, weapons and items. Link makes offer to barganairs statue, Link get's whatever he want's and barganairs statue's get poes so they can get them to afterlife
Here's my theory: the bargainer statues are ancient Poes.
We know that Poes used to be enemies rather than passive souls. What if these Poes eventually collectively united to find their way back to the afterlife that had forsaken them? The bargainer statues and robes resemble older Poes, so perhaps the most powerful of their race began to guide the others to the afterlife. Other Poes who needed to assist others (possibly like the hyrulean spirits across the depths) would guide others as well. I think Ganondorf's return and the Calamity caused Poe numbers and gloom areas to increase in numbers rapidly to where the powerful spirits began to mimic the surface like the depths they reside in, whereas the weaker float aimlessly with no civilization to focus their anger on. Plus, it explains that the statues shrug away the concept of good and evil because they were considered evil once before they found salvation.
oh i didn't even think of the Laputian robots !! i actually connected them moreso with the Giant Warrior from Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, i'm not sure why exactly but i drew the line between the Depths and Nausicaä but the huge pillars of underground tree-like tangle, poisonous environments and funky multi-winged bugs probably did the trick 😂
I think the goddess statues are all individual entities that are like emissaries for Hylia. I'm of the mind that Hylia's soul is just as called on as the hero's soul whenever the cycle must begin again, so every important Zelda is always Hylia, which is why her power is so much stronger than others in her bloodline. as well, the power never dims because every couple hundred years the goddess is reborn and the "bloodline of the goddess" starts anew. so, the statues aren't Hylia in my opinion, that's Zelda. and having shed her divinity once I doubt she'd have gotten it back in death, esp with the curse. instead, I think they're like fairies. or I should say, like the great fairies of older games (like, remember that one queen fairy from WW that held up a doll that looked like the other great fairies, and she looked weirdly like Fi?). they were gifts from Hylia to help Hyrule and the hero specifically, so too are the spirits in the goddess statues. they were placed there by Hylia before she died and would be reborn in order to help her future mortal self and her hero. 4 of the statues we know for a fact existed pre-lifting of Skyloft, they're where SS Zelda has to cleanse herself and get info from on her journey, to learn her role in the plan. and with them clearly communicating with each other and being confused when contact is cut off and needing help makes it seem far more like they're individual entities who are meant to pretend to be Hylia for those who pray to her and can hear their voices. how then there's new ones formed whenever a new town is formed, I don't know. maybe a small entity (like a fairy) evolves to take on the role of the statue or something. the spirit world in this series is full of mysteries we will likely never know.
also, side note, I also think Link is related to Mineru and that's why he can see and hear all these spirits that no one else can. we've also seen him able to leave his body behind in things like the sacred realm tests in SS, but his untrained and unamplified spirit ability being to hear spirits would be very neat. how that works with his "champion ability" being to slow time idk, but seeing as ganondorf can do that too, maybe it isn't and the spirit thing is. idk, but if Rauru and Sonia can have unseen children, so can Mineru.
I like your "related to Mineru" theory. I noticed that she has a "Sage flashback conversation" like the others, but this time, it's only her and Link.
(I also view her as the Alphonse to Link's Edward, for the Fullmetal Alchemist reference).
His power might just be seeing and interacting with spirits.
His slow time is implied to just be very sharp focus, so it makes sense that Ganondorf could use it too. He's basically the Gerudo equivalent of Link in this game.
That power might be why he sees the spirits holding the weapons, when they don't appear in photos. They might even be offering them to Link as a "Take up my sword" moment.
14:33 Looking at the statue from behind, the monstrous face paired with the back of the head reminds me of specifically a bokoblin. Even the lighter ridges on the shoulders look like part of an outline of the ears.
Glad to have the legend of Zeldatubers back theorizing we missed you 😁
I hope a theory is done on the observation deck, the stronghold, and the rupee area in the depths
Oh boy, it’s time for TOTK lore videos! I have been waiting for this since BEFORE TOTK was even announced.
Sickest first lore video for totk!!!!!!
The soldiers that holds pristine weapons on the depths are deceased soldiers on the over-world that died but since the terrain is inverted, they are on a pedestal on the depths.
great video!
Something not talked about in the depths are the 3 giant serpent-like skeletons that were probably dragons, maybe there used to be more dragons than the ones we know of.
You editing style is choice 👌
my theory is that all three statues are hylia, just the statues are for different purposes. that's how the bargainer statue can talk out of the goddess statue
the bargainer statue is how the zonai depicted hylia, and the horned statue is how one individual saw hylia. like in real life, some people think of a god worse than others
Reminds me of that concept in Elder Scrolls that the belief of people may shape the gods
Has anyone considered that the Bargainer at Lookout Landing was meant to correspond to the little demon statue?
Or the Hylia statue they've got in the bunker.
9:34 considering the Great Plateau had been raised to keep Link safe while he was in stasis, it's possible the Bargainer statue was in the depths and was raised with it. Which also begs the question which Goddess statue the two respective surface Bargainer statues correspond with.
Darkness doesn't have to equal evil, we are in the depths after all.
Also! An important word you might have been missing when you were talking about the role of the Grim Reaper and similar figures throughout folklore, myth, and religion: an entity that guides the spirits or souls of the dead is called a "psychopomp"! My favorite is from Zoroastrianism: if you've led a good life, Daena will greet you at the end of the Chinvat Bridge, a lovely maiden, finely dressed and accompanied by dogs
I'm actually glad I couldn't find the bargainers statue on the great plateau before speaking to the Hylia statue in the temple of time. It was such an eerie, intriguing moment when the goddess statue suddenly started to speak in ominous riddles, and the mystery of it only kept growing once I found the first couple of (surprisingly gigantic) eyes, and right next to where the shrines were in Botw too! Then seeing the big bargainers statue for the first time when delivering them is a moment of both awe and terror I'll never forget. And once I started piecing together just how much the depths mirrored the overworld, the more the significance of that moment dawned on me.
It's truly amazingly made, I haven't gotten this sort of feeling and excitement/curiosity from a game since Majora's Mask.
Can't wait for Totk theories