Joe Rogan on Why he changed his stance on the Moon landing conspiracy
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- čas přidán 16. 05. 2024
- Joe Rogan talks about the reason why he changed his stance on the Moon landing conspiracy theory.
Featuring Arian Foster.
Taken from Joe Rogan Experience #928 - Komedie
"Ignorance is such a gift. It gives you the opportunity to learn something, if you're humble enough"
Best. Quote. Ever.
@@dietermiller8977 gamer epic hell yeah
ignorance is a gift. then you say brest. HAHAHAHAHA!!!! Sorry. that shit is funny!
IF YOU’RE HUMBLE ENOUGH. Most people are not.
Ignorance is NOT a gift. You can be well informed and still have the opportunity to learn.
No. Wrong. Look at all the evidence.
It was absolutely staged. NASA hired Kubrick to direct the footage. The thing is, he's a stickler for realism and insisted on filming on location.
M G underrated comment
@@PlopstoperGames i wish I came up with it myself. I can't remember where i heard it.
@Wes Porter they're making strides in treating brain damage, you should see a neurologist.
@itchy AIDS i didn't claim to make up the joke.
@Wes Porter you called me a brain washed stooge because I made a joke. So yes, I did insult your intelligence in turn.
And you insult the intelligence of every single person who works or has worked on the space program every time you let that abortion of a conspiracy theory escape your mouth like so much diarrhea.
Tl;Dr: go fuck yourself.
It's worth noting that the edited Michael Collins spacewalk photo only appears in his autobiography, where it isn't claimed that it is from an actual spacewalk. NASA has never tried to pass that image off as real
True. All the details are at a URL I’ll post separately in case it is censored. It’s a Twitter shortcut, and the unique part is QCdSFPcmHJ. Update: it was censored.
It always bothered me that the camera man wasn't the first man on the moon... or was it a machine?
@@LightLanguageHealings A camera was mounted on a landing strut.
@@LightLanguageHealings ... Seriously? We can build a craft that modularly adapts to its environment in space, but you think we cant attach remote cameras to said craft? How do you think any Saturn V footage exists besides news-coverage?
It's always strange to hear what people don't get about the space program. We are not the Rocket Scientists so we will NOT get-it. So, believe this: Unless there is already another astronaut in EV mode with camera ready to take pics of an astronaut coming out of a space module there can be no pics because everything outside of the module will undergo tremendous heat upon re-entry of the space module into the Earth's atmosphere including a 'strut-mounted-cam' so they didn't place cameras outside the modules on incoming vehicles, only outgoing modules like those that went TO the Moon. Not those coming back from the Moon.
Here’s my experience with the moon landing I was 17 in 1969, and I lived in Southern California. One of my neighbors had a very powerful telescope in a platform near their pool in the backyard.we were all following the news about the landing, etc. I went to the neighbor’s house and was able to look through this telescope. We couldn’t see anything on the moon because the telescope wasn’t powerful enough. However, we could clearly see the reflection of the sunlight off of the orbiter that was circling the moon. I definitely got to whiteness an object circling the moon and reflecting the sunlight
Interesting story
You know what,that's one way to finally disprove or prove it all,send em back up,train a powerful telescope on there,enough to actually see them on it and boom,or am I just being a dummy ?xxx
@@donnamiddleton3964 The only reason it's not done is because it's not worth it. Years of training, trillions of dollars, one mistake and you roast a bunch of patriots, and there's no new information to be gained.
And let's be real here, even if we did, people would just call the new images fake too.
Bless ur heart
Russia and China both have current images of the remnants, launcher, equipment, etc, left behind on the moon, from the Apollo missions. Exactly why neither claim fake landing propaganda, because they have the proof.
The fact that the cost of cheese has dropped astronomically since Apollo 11 is all I need to know about whether we've been on the moon.
lol dude the price of cheese is high right now. it was way cheaper then.
For thousands of years, mankind thought the moon was made of cheese
We sent someone up there and found out it was a rock, and we never went back
Ha ha.
Good point
Cheeeeeeeese gromit 😬
When I don't know the answer to something, I just go to the comments where all the experts are.
Brilliant
😅
The comments always have the answers.
All the astrophysicists here are amazing
Bruh this is the most underrated comment ever
A spacewalk is also called an EVA. EVA stands for extravehicular activity. The first person to go on a spacewalk was Alexei Leonov
neil said the best thing about it, "it would be easier to just go to the moon"
no its much easier to pretend you went to the moon especially if you have been trying to go to the moon for the last decade and have all the simulations and equipment
Neil is a puppet, like a bobblehead that the government puts quarters in.
Yes cause the hundreds of thousands of people who all worked on it all lied about the same thing their wholes lives and were in on it to a tee. Get with it man. Use your brain.
@@yostaustin no why does everybody have to know about it being fake, for example everybody at the VW plant doesn't know that they are adding a device in the car to cheat emissions testing, only a few people know
@yostaustin well, if it was a hoax, those hundreds of thousands of people who worked on it may not even be aware of it being a hoax.
Its possible that the majority of people involved with the programs 100% believed their work was actually being contributed towards the goal.
If it was a hoax id suspect only a handful of folks would know the trurh.
My personal opinion is this... theres many inconsistencies that dont add up. The biggest one that stands out the most to me is that we havent went back (or possible never even been there) some claim this is because the motivation is gone, the original motivation being the space race.
But the fact is that the moon is loaded with precious resources that are rare on earth. If we could go there in the 1960s, why hasnt any operations been begun to begin mining/collecting these resources?
Additionally its said that nasa intentionally destroyed their research and data involving the apollo programs. As such its now perpetuated that scientists simply cant figure out how they did it back then. Issues such as their instrument panels woulx be damaged by the radiation belt etc prevents modern expeditions to the moon.
It just doesnt make a lot of sense. But, it is a romantic notion that we went to the moon.
"It is the sign of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" -Aristotle
For a few years now I’ve been entertaining the thought that Donald Trump is the President of the United States, and yet I cannot bring myself to accept it.
@@JohnnyArtPavlou I hear you! You did entertain it.... nice work.
@@JohnnyArtPavlou my 401 K definitely accepts it!!!! African Americans accept it with African American employment at its highest Ever! The Hispanics accept it with unemployment at its lowest in their community ever! Europe and China are now realizing they cannot continue with unfair trade against the USA...yep all good! AND we landed on the Moon! So did China
@@SR-fb7yp calm down you goddamn Boomer, it's a fucking joke you spaz
@@SR-fb7yp Someone get grandpa's medical gummies he's screeching again.
A wise man changes his mind,
a fool never does.
Word
He trolls idiots.
That would make everyone who believes the moon landing was real a fool... seeing as that's the default standpoint.
You'd have to be a pretty big fucking idiot to have thought it was fake in the first place.
@@HanSoloxcs you cannot say that having doubts is the mark of a fool
I have nothing but great respect for you mate! That you were able to objectively look at things and even question yourself is a good trait of character. Great show!!!
siiimp
Clean up when you’re finished
If you fake one thing you fake them all
“Two can keep a secret, if one is dead.”
Japanese proverb
"Three may keep a secret if two of them are dead." -Benjamin Franklin.
Am i being r/woosh -ed here or is that from the Pretty Little Liars theme song.
Thomas it was a quote before being in the open but yeah, similar to the tune.
@@Ihad9eyes 4 people can keep a secret..if you tell them.. right before they were killed
By : Neil Armstrong
Well , I think there's a difference between stealing a quote and trying to pass it off as an original and embellishing a quote to make it more salient to your own point. In this case , the Japanese proverb is asture and minimal,, Franklin inflates the situation with customary Yankee bombast. I don't buy that Armstrong quote though.
“Everything that’s posted on the internet is true”.
-Abraham Lincoln
Throttlelifeby jt 🤣🤣
Good to know..I always thought George Washington said that.
@@thtoneguy0321 sorry I think you're both wrong, I'm pretty sure Julius Caesar said that
Wasn't that Jesus Christ?
@@coiledsteel8344 oh wait that rings a bell, wait no, could it have been Brian of Jerusalem? He was the Messiah and I should know, I've followed a few.
Adrian Foster is a very intresting person,and this was a great podcast.
I know. So intelligent for an nfl player
How could you lose data on the most important feat in human history..
Here's why I think they came up with that excuse. Back in '69 they didn't have all the fancy video recording devices in high resolution. Today if they tried to pull this on us again we'd be able to capture their rocket shoot up and just bounce off/ scrape the firmament and/or watch it go straight into the bermuda triangle
Because the "data" was all fake. We can't leave Earth. I won't believe we can until it's actually accomplished
@@the90schild1moon landing is a fact
@@the90schild1imagine thinking we've never been outside our orbit before. You probably think satellites aren't real either or that they just float with a balloon or something?
@@maxwell8758brainwashed clown
Self-critiquing is a sign of maturity.
Very very true
And wisdom
I was just thinking this! Can you imagine if the whole world could humbly admit sometimes they don't know what the fuck they're talking about? 😅
That’s a very low bar for maturity. Joe rogan is as dumb as rocks
Not true, you can be mature but still ignore self improvement
"People are afraid to say I don't know."
- So much error would be burned up if more people understood this.
There is a type of people who respond to "I don't know" with, "you therefore dont know anything, and I know for sure." More people do need to be honest with themselves and be skeptical about their own beliefs. When Socrates said "all I know is that I know nothing" publicly that was a kind of brave act.
That's my take on religion. Heaven, hell, God, and satan...I don't know. A person can believe all they want but in reality. Religion, all of them are he said, she said stories pasted down from generation to generation. Interpreted by different people in their own words! I don't know or understand the "word of god" because it's man who is preaching it😒
Not really dude there's nothing wrong with having a guess offcourse we don't know that's obvious i say i don't know all the time religion don't know when my misses asks me who left the toilet seat up don't know😉✌
Trump
I completely agree. I don’t fully understand everything. I’ve got a very good grasp of most things. The conclusion I’ve drawn is that we’ve went to the moon, but I don’t think it happened when they said it did. I also think they fake a ton of the space station videos. I’ve seen the cables etc. it’s obvious. But I have no idea why they would...
This is why I like you Joe. Doesn’t matter what the content is, you’re able to be honest. Keep up the great work.
i always end up finding good episodes from these highlights
Buzz Aldrin would be a perfect guest for Joe Rogan. He has no filter whatsoever and would tell Joe everything he needs to know about project Apollo so that he never gets mixed up again.
I have met Buzz countless times and he is such an ass-whole but I agree!
@@brianemery-lundstrom9382 a whole ass
@@fraguladotvee8959 lmao
Wes Porter we never went back be cause we lack the will to do it. BTW, lunar reconnaissance orbiter photographed the Apollo landing sites back in 2009.
John Lydon what’s the “truth”
2:50 He's partially correct. The image on the right IS doctored, but not by NASA. It was doctored for Michael Collin's Autobiography because he was upset that they NASA never took footage of his actual spacewalk. So he included a doctored image of his "spacewalk" in the book.
Bolensgoldrush one question always rises is. Why haven’t they been back to the moon. When they done it in the sixties.
@@enkaan1676 Cause I don't want to pay for it. We seen it. There's rocks there. We have much cheaper rocks here.
@@enkaan1676 it's expensive, there's no point in doing it, what can we even get from the moon at this point and it uses up too much resources
@@enkaan1676 Let's reverse the question - why should we go back?
Lordidude exactly
It’s crazy how people will believe lies told to them by liars and refuse to change their minds no matter the evidence and still find the most ridiculous excuses and yet call others conspiracy theorists mockingly. It’s unbelievable
What evidence do you have, convince me?
Seek help
@@milanpatel5788 where's your evidence?
A good example is COVID and the MRNA vaccines.
@@kevinobrien1897I’m confused you believe COVID was a hoax?
Interesting point about radiation damage to film in space. Maybe 1st journey they didn't access the issue...later landings they'd figured it out....which might account for differences in moon bounce
I’m pretty sure I remember reading somewhere that the astronauts figured out the bounce moving method instead of trying to walk as it was easier and quicker
@@matthewrowell8518 ya sounds about right.....or...could have been simple fun
It was fake, I've been to the moon. The geezer there said he's never seen Americans till Netflix came along
John Mascardo underrated
was his name Frank Sinatra?
@@groverkiinmuppetborn714 you've been too?
@@johnmascardo7047 nah just a feeling
@@Ali-kp7bh What?
"The government always tells the truth"
- The Government
"We find the CIA not guilty of torturing innocent test subjects"
- The Government
The FBI was under investigation and was found not guilty of any bias
- The Government
😂👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 That was a good one! Unfortunately the government lies more than they tell the truth!
Hahahhaa lmfao
🤣
Mythbusters had a really good special about the moon landing.
Rogan might be one of the most educated people on this Earth about the most controversial moments of our humanity , he has a collection of interviews that rivals any other organization on topics such as the pyramids, the moon, ufos… so many others. I have to tip my hat to him… he has managed to visit all these topics while still holding respect from just about every type of person regardless of beliefs or policial parties. ❤
Well stated, and I agree with you.
If the moon landing is fake, where do we get our cheese from?
KND haha
Just DESTROYED the denyers
I love you for this.
Such a valid point
Shmacked Muffins You just made the list
"Even the shit I feel like I know I still feel like I don't know"
-Socrates
Really.. Socrates said *_shit_*
@@larryjohnny its a joke... that went waaaay over your head it seems....
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet"
-Isaac Newton.
He was just paraphrasing lol
r/whoosh
“Appreciate it. I appreciate you, appreciating it”
What about Indian moon landing. Looks like an old 80s Atari graphics lol
It was a graphical illustration. Not a live video feed lol
This is why I like Joe Rogan. He is smart enough to know he isn't the smartest. He is willing to reevaluate his position with new informations.
PEOPLE PHOTOSHOP SOME PICTURES?/ AND YOU BELIEVE THEM?? PEOPLE FUCK YOU ALL!! TAKE A SCOPE AND AIM IT AT THE MOON? YOU WILL SEE THE LANDING SITES DUE TO NO AIR ON THE MOON?? WHAT NEXT JOE BELIEVE BECAUSE OF PHOTOSHOP THE WORLD FLAT?? ALL THEY PROVED IS YOU DIDNT LISTEN IN SCHOOL. WHY NOT TALK TO SOMEONE WHO BEEN THERE, ASS WIPE.
@@brucesweatmaniii6030 calm down there leonidas
@@brucesweatmaniii6030 people like you should just be given crayons and pictures to draw
I think we all saw that he isn't the smartest
@@brucesweatmaniii6030 You realize they have video? And that they only had film cameras then? And that photoshop didn't exist?
"I think it gets really scary when you want to be right, that you're willing to ignore things that would otherwise show that you're wrong"
Joe Rogan
You misquoted it so wrong lmao
@@papimew2672 no I didn't..
@@papimew2672 ignorant troll
Joshua Hooker yea you did lmao
Joshua Hooker 7:03
I'm always considering all of the possibilities! Ready to change my mind at any given because I am focused on the truth and facts all times.
Facts FF MOON WALK TO 2X AND THEY MYSTERIOUSLY APPEAR TO BE ON EARTH WITHOUT ANY BOUNCE💯🔥🔥
There was a recent video were some dude from NASA said they still haven't figured out how to cross though the van Allen belt😕
You’re wrong
@@maxwell8758 No you are Wrong
@@01brake No I’m not. The moon landing is a 100% fact. We still use technology we left up there. Other countries have verified this. Even myth busters proved that there were man made retroreflectors on the moon.
Every single astronaut that has been extra orbital has done so. What are you talking about? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Van_Allen_radiation_belt.svg
@@QC_Charlottean Wikipedia 💀 Try the NASA website next time.
Joe "I've looked at alot of compelling documentaries" Rogan
Watch the morning landing video. You dont need to go through all the him hob that joe rogan and pal just spoke about to see that it was fabricated.
@@owennickell8358 as an Aerospace engineer, you have insulted me. If you can follow the math, I can show you the orbital mechanics which show we can do it.
@@natemoorman4562 show me you can actually do it instead of launching a rocket into the bermuda triangle
@@natemoorman4562 im not disputing your orbital mechanics, im saying the moon landing video looks like really bad theater. Considering how much better television is today contrary to what is was back then, and our experience of its capability. It makes sense that the wool may have just been pulled over ours and our grandparents eyes.
Owen Nickell If you believe the moon landing is fake, you don’t deserve access to the internet. In fact you should be locked up in a psych ward.
People are afraid to say “I don’t know” because they think it makes them look stupid for not knowing, but pretending to know when you don’t makes you look 100 times more stupid... What’s wrong with not knowing?
@David Stunning Nobody started this trend, it's a part of human nature. Ego is human nature. Stupidity is human nature.
Yeah I think we can all agree with that sentiment but at the same time we have to realise we are limited cognitively and we're naturally programmed to think like that. We can't be too hard on ourselves.
What I learned in public school was being wrong was a reason to be ridiculed. So many of my classmates were quick to laugh at anyone who answered a question wrong, or look at them in utter disbelief as if to say "are you mentally retarded?"
The issue is the response to being wrong. If being wrong is met with ridicule then people will either A) stop participating or B) go out of their way to be right
Nicely put, except in this case we do know.
Control is the most basic and necessary human illusion, and the least realistic. People will always feel a need to know, or at the very least FEEL as though they know. This gives us a sense of control over ourselves and the subject of our thinking, and with that comfort. That need will never really go awah
The problem is I watched it on TV real time, yeah, I'm that old. It's an impossibility to pull that off something big with thousands of people involved and fake it without someone spilling the beans.
It probably wasn't hard before the internet. Nowadays, it's making us go back and reevaluate a lot of things.
Easier to do than you think. Especially when people are getting paid to not talk about it.
9 11
How about Lee Harvey Oswald being the lone assassin of JFK? I used to think it was easier back then, but how about the origin of COVID, the safety of the MRNA vaccines, and Ivermectin/Hydrochrloroquine? How about Joe Biden won a fair election and it cognizant?
That is what being compartmentalized is all about.
Has anyone mentioned to Joe about having Bart Sibrel on his show? Wow would they have a fascinating conversation, indeed!
If we really landed on the moon we would have found Decepticons.
thats on the dark side of the moon. we only saw the light side
We did! Megatron! 🙄 duh!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤦🏿♂️
@@kardia5672 but everyone knows the soviets landed on the dark side.......and never returned
Its fairly well know their last chaotic transmission included screaming about a giant purple robot with a single eye and an arm cannon
Clearly they were annihilated by Shockwave
Obviously
And don't get me started about that I'll fated soviet misadventure to Venus.............
All those soviet cosmonauts being tried in the Quintesson's propaganda show trial overseen by the Imperial Magistrates and unfortunately being found innocent 🦈🦈🦈🦈🦈🦈
@@shooter7734 come again nigga
I appreciate people appreciating this video which I appreciated.
And I appreciate your appreciating people appreciating this video.
I can appreciate that
Appreciate it
Much appreciated guys
I was entertained & amused by the idiocy & TBH if I was offended & irritated by the content I'd still give it a Thumbs-Up as Joe Rogan & his channel is by and large Quality St.
Joe you are right, film used to get damaged in early xray machines at airports. Later they started saying that new machines wouldn’t damage the film but i used to still not let them pass exposed film just in case. I used to work in film production from early 2001-2008
Am I the only person who just realized I watched Joe Rogan say over and over how he no longer believes the moon landing was fake, while at the same time he lists nothing but reason after reason to doubt it?
He didn't say he doesn't believe it's fake, he said he doesn't know enough to say imperically that it is, or is not fake he's on the "idk Shi* fence"
its fake
@@bobbychuckles8764 alright folks that’s a wrap we’ve got our answer
@@WishMount You prove a positive not a negative. The burden of proof is on them and they have failed to anyone using rational objective thought.
@@bobbychuckles8764
How could they prove it to you?
If you’re so ignorant it could be tough.
“Ignorance is a gift. It gives you an opportunity to learn something if you’re humble enough”
that’s some solid advice right there
Who is he? Mad respect for knowing correlation =/= causation
Fee Arian foster
Dudes into spirituality
Stupid , ignorant people are usually very confident about their imagined superior abilities . Sometimes called the Dunning Kruger effect.
I wonder if anyone (other than me) has considered that men did land on the moon, but died of radiation poisoning when back on earth... And then Armstrong and the rest were the switch. For me that's a plausible version of events that sits nicely in between both narratives.
I think that still is an idiotic as moon landing deniers and just as wrong. Will give some points to creativity. Zero point for plausibility
Anyone who can call themselves out for not being objective is legit just a solid human... This is why his podcast is amazing.
My favourite part of the moon landing conspiracy is Neil Armstrongs name backward is A lien
HOLY S....
blew my mind. 😯😄 it all fits.
Even worse it's Sgnortsmra Lien
Gnorts mr Alien ? lol
No, it gnortsmrA lieN.
Guess that REALLY proves he has been to the moon, or even from the moon... maybe Apollo 11 left a dummy there and brought Niel to earth.
"it would be easier to just go to the moon than to fake it "
Neil Degrasse Tyson
sameed yousuf I call bullshit on that
@@madkins77765 straight bullshit lmao
Guys don't forget it was the 60s. There was no CGI yet. Not even by a long shot. Trying to make an entire planet believe that a fake moon landing is real seems nearly impossible to me. So yeah I agree with Tyson that it must've been way easier to actually go there.
absolutely retarded statement from a fake scientist
@@Agaetis181 you don't know how hard it would have been to fake the moon
I love to tell people "I don't know." Because it's usually followed by learning something new...
I got one for you. Let's look at this like mount Everest. Ever since the 1st time that man stepped foot on mount Everest there has been another man directly behind him to do it again and if I'm not mistaken right now there's A-line to get to the top of mount Everest. If we had actually made it to the moon, there is no doubt in my mind that we would have returned by now already. That is how man works.
Go to any event with a live broadcast and take a look at the media centre, count the trucks.
@@hahafreepremium3990 So the Chinese are just sitting the whole moon thing out? I don't think so.
There is literally no reason to go on the moon tho, it costs a shitload of money for the trip, and I mean A SHITLOAD, they could afford it but what’s the point there is nothing on there
A great way for congress and senate to get rich. 10 Billion split 550 ways is a lot of money. They say they destroyed the technology to make the Rocket. They have a Rocket near Disney land. In a museum. Wake up folks.
The USA went back 6 times after Apollo 11. Five times they were successful.
So by your logic the moon landings are real 👍
This was cool. He thought it was faked. Looked at it objectively. And realized he was wrong, and changed his beliefs to match the facts. Subscription earned!
He clearly still thinks it was faked as this whole video is him talking about the evidence towards it, then saying he's not a rocket scientist so he's not aloud to form an opinion.
If only flat earthers and religious could do the same thing...
If only he could get eddie bravo to do that!
He thinks some photographs are fake, but he said he doesn't know whether he thinks we went to the moon or not (8:32)
@@deathfeeds i believe we have been on the moon but some footage is faked due to the camera and film getting damaged
Another thing to consider is that the Soviet Union never accused the US of faking the moon landings. You'd think if it we never went there not only would the Soviets be able to tell but they'd be the first ones to blow the whistle. But they didn't.
Or maybe the Soviets didn't go there either? ;)
John Smith... Good point
The Soviets didnt 'go' but they were tracking the whole mission for sure, both Radar and radio intercepts and if there was anything suspect they would have everything to gain by revealing it and making NASA and the US look stupid.
maybe soviet never went into space and maybe that same reason they are quiet, no reason to snitch when you got basket full of lies. :D
The Russians would have been able to receive the transmissions from the moon. Beyond that, they would know that the transmissions were originating on the moon. Other advanced nations could do the same thing. There's no mystery here.
The mythbusters moon landing episode pretty much dispels a lot of the conspiracy theories... worth a watch.
YOU BELIEVE MYTHBUSTERS LOL. SO AUTOMATICALLY YOU BELIEVE WE WENT LOL
@@leelunk8235 I believe in Science... not crazy people
@@ToruKurosawa THATS NOT SCIENCE UR CRAZY
@@leelunk8235 You don't believe a programme that is based off scientific theory and runs tests to debunk myths but you will believe a conspiracy theorist that has probably plucked the information from thin air or some non-legit website.. right...
@@leelunk8235 How many people are in on this conspiracy and how did NASA manage to convince USSR to go along with it? The USSR would have loved to smear the US if they faked the moon landing
Man has never stepped foot on the moon because the moon is not solid
Mate you're about as dense as the fucking moon 😂
"I appreciate you appreciated it"
*Everyone liked that*
Fuck up
@@maxd363 ok, but how does calling yourself a "fuck up" contribute in any way to the topic at hand?
@@snailsaredumb9412 you better shut the fuck up
@@maxd363 u ok
@@maxd363 woe calm down max!
I wish everybody would try to approach conspiracy theories in this way. Evaluating what facts we know and the likelihood of different outcomes. I respect Joe for evolving his view and being willing to talk about it
ok what?
Oh my god shut up with that crap lol
Evolving for some, de-volving for others
I don't know enough about "the science" (rocket or otherwise) either. I DO know HUMAN NATURE and part of that "science" is knowing that individuals and people lie, and obfuscate, and otherwise BAMBOOZLE people for ALL SORTS OF REASONS, (not excluding the reason[s] of just sheer amusement, and the "reason" regarding the proverbial dog and his balls.....And why he licks them).
I also know that people who may not INTENTIONALLY be lying often spout off MISINFORMATION---again for a variety of reasons, the main one being that some authority figure told them repeatedly that "y+y" equals "x", OR.... Since EVERYBODY ELSE claims that "y+y"= "x" and it's supposedly "common knowledge", only an "idiot" would claim otherwise, so why even QUESTION it? Never mind CHALLENGE it??
Also...."y+y" MAY INDEED equal "x", but those who know HOW and WHY that is true, often cannot or WILL NOT explain the answers to "lesser minds" to those two questions of "HOW" and "WHY".
(Never mind the answers to that OTHER 3 letter question, and the remaining 4--letter questions.)
The assassination of JFK may NOT have been a "conspiracy", despite SO MANY claims otherwise. HOWEVER......."Lone gunman" or not, the SCIENCE of FORENSICS indicate that Lee Harvey Oswald was NOT the only shooter. (Or to put it more succinctly, THE SCIENCE of FORENSICS indicates NONE of Lee Harvey Oswald's bullets were responsible for entering JFK's cranium.)
WHY do I bring this up? Just merely to POINT OUT that even though "FACTS MATTER", the IMPLICATION and/or RAMIFICATIONS of facts might MATTER MORE!! I also bring it up because REGARDLESS if the MOON LANDINGS were faked, IT IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE for a COVER-UP to occur from a large group of people--in the JFK case, the Warren Commission, and the rest of the United States Government.
Take something more tragic and recent: September 11th, 2001. REGARDLESS of whether one believes there was a conspiracy behind that day, or one accepts the "official narrative", there are A LOT of UNASKED and UNANSWERED questions about that day, and the time period PRIOR leading up to it.
(And such questions have NOTHING to do with the supposedly "smoking gun" of Building No. 7.)
Bottom line? Mockery of Moon Landing Conspiracy theorists MAY NOT be appropriate. But since the MOON LANDINGS did NOT involve the loss of innocent lives, I personally do NOT lose a lot of sleep over the event one way or another. If you have read this comment in its entirety, thank you for your attention.
when you become targeted and blacklisted by the government you start to see things in a different light. i know first hand i got a gift from my grandfather who was in charge of security for a division of nasa and that gift just keeps giving and giving and giving. Guess who stoped making fun of his paranoid uncle.
I remember watching the Moon Shot on TV. I also recall that a LOT of what they showed included the disclaimer that what I was watching was a simulation. Made sense to me at 9 years old and it makes sense to me now that it would have been exceedingly difficult to have a whole other ship going there with a Film Crew, hence the simulations.
Wow. That’s very funny. To think moon landing deniers only needed to show that the whole time and would be proven right😂😂😂
The Shining took on an entirely new meaning for me after watching room 236. I was too young to see any of Kubrick's hidden messages. After watching room 236 it becomes very clear what Kubrick was telling us about Apollo 11.
Do you mean room 237?
Why were Kubrick's techniques in "2001: A Space Odyssey" so obviously and ridiculously staged, but yet one year later he was supposedly able to produce a product that has fooled billions of people (except the conspiracy theorists)? That makes no sense.
Finally, nice to see someone watched it🤝
"Science does not have a moral dimension. It is like a knife. If you give it to a surgeon or a murderer, each will use it differently" - Wernher Von Braun:
It’s extremely difficult for me to have any respect for anyone who seriously thought that the moon landing was faked. It’s scary that people that foolish have the right to vote.
@@tonyduncan9852 Sir you can't be serious, the irony on your comment is over the top. That video of the AK carrying monkey is a publicity video for the Rise of the Apes movie, you can read it on the description and you can see the 20th Century Fox water mark on the bottom left of it. Indeed very scary ;)
No worries, Ed. The whole point is that it is only our capabilities that matter.
@@tonyduncan9852 Fair enough sir, Thanks for the laugh though, that was a funny video to watch. In this case we can observe though how good we became at faking stuff and that if we want to believe it, we will. So we might as well throw the Moon landing deniers a bone or two, cheers!
@@MetalGuitarEdi "throw the Moon landing deniers a bone or two" - not a single thing. The video taken from the buggies of the Moonlanders (and also of the astronauts climbing into them) taking off is a visual proof. That torn pieces of gold-plated melinex film were torn off by the rocket exhaust and flew away in straight lines without slowing down or dropping, tells anyone with a working ability to see that those are the consequences of both a vacuum and low gravity. These shots were taken at least a decade before any type of digital colour video synthesis existed.
Very simple proof of the moon landing; when the astronauts landed on the moon they set up a retro-reflector. Its a big mirror that will reflect light right back towards it's source with minimal scattering. To this day astronomers are able to shine a laser towards the retro-reflector and the light from the laser will travel to the moon, hit the mirror and then return to the source of the laser. This is how physicists know how far the moon is from earth at any given time, its used for figuring out tidal forces for meteorology as well.
Not proof anyone was there. Rovers.
You're not an engineer. You don't work in aerospace. You know how I can tell?
Because you're too dim to work in these fields. Funny how the hoaxers always work on the bottom rungs of society.
@@edwardzeigler6437 Its simple to prove it went with humans; there are documents that show the cargo load of the rocket and also the people on it.
@@Evan-rl1rnThe biggest problem with the worst conspiracy theorists is that their conspiracies will extend as far as they needs to to confirm their beliefs.
Retro-reflector? It's a lie. It's not there. Any data from the reflector is faked. Documents confirming the cargo load that took it to the moon are faked. Anyone who claims to work with the reflector is lying.
No evidence is enough because any and all evidence is either faked or a lie. Anyone presenting evidence that is contrary to their beliefs is a liar or a government shill or a sheep. And on and on and on.
I'm not an engineer nor a doctor. Automatically discredited. Lmao. The logic is strong with these ones. Didng magic atheist Joe switch his stance on 911 for his sponsors also. Guess it's working to appease the main stream low IQ tools.
I don't get how they had such good live tv coverage from the moon. This was during the time you had to smack your tv around to make it work
The clangers was more realistic
Different technology my friend, which used radio dishes pointed directly at each other to send and receive the signals, with the dishes here on Earth being larger than a house.
That's why there isn't a single experienced space communication expert worldwide for over 50 years who believes the TV broadcast from the moon was impossible back then.
@@russmartin4888 - And yet to this day, no-one has EVER recreated in a studio the perfect 1/6 gravity seen in hour after hour of Apollo footage, where even the kicked up dust and dropped objects fall at the rate of the moon's gravity. Not even in the moon scenes in the highest budget sci-fi films (remember, no advanced CGI existed back in 1969-1972).
Even modern high budget movies like "The Martian" with its CGI effects doesn't attempt to recreate the 1/3 gravity of Mars for the surface scenes!
That's because it's impossible to recreate such effects perfectly in real time on a studio/set with actors, so they typically don't bother at all for Mars and usually resort to rather poor attempts for moon scenes, where only recently have they improved such visuals thanks to advanced CGI, which again wasn't available back in the 60s/70s.
Therefore *if someone successfully recreates perfect 1/6 gravity in a studio and hence demonstrates uncut footage that matches the Apollo footage in every way (in terms of gravity, not appearance) THEN I would drop that argument straight away, because that would be proof that it is possible to fake the Apollo footage here on Earth.*
Such proof wouldn't mean the moon landings were a hoax, only that it is _possible_ to fake the footage.
as far as I know, the "doctored" photo of Michael Collins was made by Ralph Rene himself and can be found only in HIS book, but not anywhere else.
Everyone except Joe knows this.
He changed his stance when Elon made it look easy whilst smoking a spliff
lmao
In Joe's defense he is entitled to open his mind to the idea of changing his mind. They call that a critical thinking skill that not many have. The spiff is a human construct that makes all the possibilities plausible.
He changed when his handlers told him to stop speaking out against them. He isn’t paid as well as he is, and put into positions to influence so many young impressionables just so he can call the powers that be dirty liars.
I always find it amusing how much people attribute power to people with an audience lol.. illuminati people crack me up. They all claim the most greedy, power hungry, and manipulative people in the world can somehow work together towards a common higher goal despite thier greed? Lolol yea right.. your mind is just doing what it does best.. making the irrational seem rational so a simpleton can understand it
T.D. McCarty I guess you’re talking to me? It’s hard to say for sure, since nobody here has made any prior mention of the Illuminati. You’re the simpleton if you are actually so naive that you don’t believe the richest of the rich don’t do everything within their power to preserve their power, and everything just happens by nature. I mean sure, your explaination is so much more rational. If you’re listening to a guy that has his mind changed over what someone tells him while he’s stoned, then you are obviously of far superior intellect. You should be invited to sit in with the bilderberg group. Oh, yeah. Never mind. They don’t exist.
One question for you, boy genius. Did we land on the moon, or not? Save you cute little insults, and your talking down. You’ve already done too much that.just answer the question. Please. Thanks.
This is why I admire Joe as a person. I may not agree with him on everything, but he's well read and always looking out for when he's wrong and how he could be better. That's a rare quality to find in a person.
not really
lol you and I must have very different life experiences then.
Whatever. He censors his true beliefs depending on who he's talking to. He genuinely believed Ronda Rousy could beat men in the ufc... Until she lost two rights.
Puff Ball he's hardly well read. reading random books doesn't make one well read, reading the books of conspiracy theory authors can actually make you more ignorant.
Pablog G
what random books are you referring to? i presume you have seen his library in person? no? didnt think so.
'Have you ever seen the video of a bear in a space suit?'
And then someone misplaced the instructions how to get back there... 😵💫
Nope… we can absolutely go back and always could.
A note on those Michael Collins photographs:
There are no publications from NASA of that Michael Collins photo, nor are there any publications which suggest that it is from a real space walk. The image appears in some issues of Collins' autobiography, with the caption clearly stating that it was taken during a training exercise. Moon hoax theorist Ralph Rene first claimed that these images were passed off as genuine space walk photographs.
In 2003, space historian James Oberg offered Rene 10,000 dollars for any edition of the Collins autobiography that described the doctored photograph as a spacewalk snapshot. Rene was unable to provide one, and so far nobody else has either.
You see this a lot in many flat-earth "proofs". They will take one picture, extremely out of context, and say "See! Its proof of flat earth!"
Saddening, really.
Its probably a troll from the outside, someone that just wanted to make fun of them and see how far will they go with it.
All I'm saying, is that during a time when we as a civilization had such little understanding of technology that the internet had not even been invented yet, during a time when the floppy disk had not even been invented yet, during a time when the telephones still needed cords&wires... You're gonna tell me during this time that we were advanced enough into the age of technology to make it all the way to the moon 6 times...and we haven't been back since. You're gonna tell me that even though these telephones needed cords to operate, that somehow we as a civilization were advanced enough to communicate with these astronauts who were 100's of thousands of miles away... Through some strong ass radio waves?? I can't even get the radio to come in from my local station...
This is what you are tryna have me believe?
@@whocares892 Yes
THANK YOU
i like this dude. someone who can admit they dont know. fuckin a
MayfallTribe he entertains some wild stuff but he's good at opening his mind
MayfallTribe you know shit mate 🤔
Marc Piechowicz I know enough to admit i only know enough to force someone to correct me... :D
Back then, IBM were the cutting edge in computing, and the computing power of today's iphone is more superior than 30 floors of mainframes of that era. It took days for the computer to calculate modelling. So you really think they safely made it to the moon back then?? Yeah, im doubtful.
I took AP physics in HS and I could definitely believe it. We would do experiments where we’d have to calculate exactly where an object would land or how high it would go based solely off of gravitational force, the force of friction, velocity, acceleration, etc… Our teacher only let us use basic calculators and measurement tools to find the equations we needed, then we’d find the rest of the info in the formula just by rewriting the equation to solve for what we had. To me the people who first came up with these equations that we still use today are the most unbelievable part
Technology is leaps ahead of ancient times.. yet we still can’t fathom how they built the pyramids.
Them people reached out to him told him to shut up or else
Absolutely
We went to the moon
Facts do not care about your feelings on the matter
@@destinmorrissey6058stop coping, we didn't.
Oh you're just sad.
@@rexfreeman4981 who
When _Mythbusters_ dealt with this, Jamie went to New Mexico and talked to a little readhead radio astronomer, who happens to be the wife of a friend of mine. She demonstrated to Jaime how ANYONE with the fairly available equipment can aim a radio or laser at any of the landing zones and get bounce back confirmation.
We watched that in class years ago, I still don't understand why this conspiracy is still a thing...
tiger_howe we’ve definitely been to the moon. But we’re we really there the first time? I believe we were but entertain the idea for a bit.
Sending astronauts to a moon, and sharing fake footage of astronauts on the moon are not mutually exclusive possibilities. For all we know, the moon landing was faked, and recorded in a studio, that happened to be on the moon. But whatever makes you feel like you're God's gift to intellectuals on this planet, you go ahead and believe on faith.
True....but a LOT of people are under the assumption that people can view items on the moon landing site with an Earth bound telescope which is not true at all. BUT they CAN....with the right equipment.....do what you just stated above which is just as amazing. The USA AND other countries HAVE seen items left on the moon but only by doing fly by's when they were launching a space probe. This has been done not only by the USA but by other countries so IF there was really nothing there.....that would have been exposed long ago.
It is pretty weird to people how we can see sooooooo far away into other galaxies with our Earth bound telescopes yet cannot see objects from the moon landing on the moon. Still, they cannot wrap their heads around HOW small those objects are on the moon and how truly far the moom actually is from Earth......and how massive and bright those other galaxies really are we see in outer space. It is soooooo crazy and distances soooo massive it is really hard for humans to reallly, truly comprehend.
The known observable Universe is amazing and to think of how unimaginably massive the areas are that we will NEVER, EVER see due to the limitations of the speed of light. It is mind numbing.
@@ladymercy5275 I'm sorry but that is absolutely preposterous. Simple math proves that the Delta V required to fly an entire studio to the moon wasn't available in the Saturn V rocket, let alone the fact that going to the moon to then fake a moon landing is pointless.
"joe why did you change your mind on the moon landing conspiracy?"
"well i had Neil Degrasse Tyson on and he brought it up and I didn't want to look like an idiot"
moofasa1211 The "psychics" of helicopters... Jesus fucking Christ.
@moofasa1211 "the psychics of helicopters"
I'm picking up a strong '50 cal' sensation over here. Does the tail number 690720N have significance to anybody? Maybe with a camouflage paint?
zedmelon yeah I crashed my chopper a while back when I was fucked up and fled the scene
moofasa1211 idiot
alx, no shit! rogan gets bit by conspiracy bug.
right and wrong changes all the time, life ain't static, it's dynamic
Russia never went to the moon because in Russia moon comes to you.
The moon landing was faked to bankrupt the USSR. I mean we can't go back to the moon and its been said so by nasa because ALL of the data disappeared and we somehow THAT LONG AGO we could live stream from the moon to earth? I call BULLSHIT. It was filmed in Nevada desert with cords.
CIA: You're on thin fucking ice buddy
Lol
They actually landed on the moon before us, just not with people. They had a remote controlled rover!
It's not because there exist a stupid comment that almost writes itself that people should do it...
The thing is they have created a society that doesn't know what's true or not and can't defend themselves.
On purpose
I couldn’t have said it better. The government lies more than they tell the truth and unfortunately most people in society now are conditioned to except everything they’re being told instead of doing any critical thinking. Our government doesn’t want critical thinkers, they want obedient workers.
Absolutely true...they have bent twisted the truth so much...that people can't be sure of anything...and all done on purpose...
How would it be any other way though? You can’t be an expert at everything so you have to trust other peoples word at some point.
I think that’s just a fact of humanity not something engineered by “them”
Not true in the slightest lol
Not knowing is a gifted opportunity to learn some shit. Good perspective bro
The Earth is a hollow triangular pyramid and we live on the inside.
It's also spinning on it's point, drilling a hole into the 4th dimension.
What do you 2 know 🤔
Stay woke
jim jimjim Which one?! A triangular pyramid has four points.
It's also flat and sits on the back of a cosmic turtle
"I can appreciate the mindset..." thats a very nice thing to say.
The moon buggy looks a bit big for the hatch
Some interesting things in “The Shining “. Could be a way for Kubrick to tell us. Just like EWS.
Is the moon even real?
PE/\KE its fake
Well, its the only known object/moon in space, that doesnt rotate around its own axis. We always see that same side of the moon, hence "The dark side of the moon". Take a second and think about that...
And in some old chinese texts there are alot of times they refeer to "the time before the moon" - Sounds like it hasn't always been there...
PE/\KE A lot of people have been linking saturn and the moon sayin it kinda works like a projector...
Peter Leidecker It DOES rotate on it's own axis. This has been proven. It just rotates in tandem with it's own orbit.
Most people mix facts with their own opinions, and start believing their opinions are facts. Understanding the difference between a fact and your conclusion about the fact, is when you truly start to mature and read life with wisdom.
I hope this comment ends up at the top.
This is such a long way of saying “keep an open mind”
@@ill_be_frank it all depends on the lighting conditions. The Hasselblad cameras used on the moon had to be set up before launch to a specific aperture by guessing how bright the surface of the moon would be. As is evidenced by the literally thousands of pictures taken on the moon (including full 360 degree panoramas) they hit it pretty good. The reason you can’t see stars in the moon pics is because the exposure setting wouldn’t allow for it. If the film had been exposed to show stars, everything else in the shot would have been blown out.
@@il9861 Considering the comments section on any given internet post, things need to be spelled out for people. :-)
@@ill_be_frank are you saying the astronauts couldn’t see stars? My bad. I thought you meant in the pictures. That’s true, too. They were on the moon in full daylight with no atmospheric interference. The human eye works like a camera lens.
60s technology can get man to the moon but 2020 technology isn't advanced enough. 😂😂
In the 60's they had the balls to risk their lives OR the ignorance of not knowing how close to chaos they were. Today we're scared of our own shadow and want multiple layers of redundant protections for everything. But NASA has such a huge target on their back because the rest of the government (and media) want nothing more than to exploit any NASA mistakes and take it's funding for their programs. The 2 shuttle F ups almost ended NASA and now they are so concerned with not making mistakes they can't get anything accomplished. "Paralysis by analysis" Look how fast SpaceX caught and surpassed them. Because they don't mind blowing up a ship or 10. All the time NASA scientists were making fun of them for failing. Until they weren't failing anymore and landing ship after ship after ship. Now NASA wants to team up with SpaceX but it won't be long before Congress kills Artemis and basically NASA with it. Maybe a few of the dicdoc generation will actually read this far and learn something but I highly doubt it and they'll keep spewing stupidity in their little 30 second ADHD friendly clips.
Whenever Joe changes his mind on controversial subjects I applaud his open mindedness and growth. BUT.. sometimes I don’t believe him and think he’s “handled”. For eg. this conversation, he doesn’t address things like the flag flapping, unmanned cameras moving(60s tech), van Allen belts, shadows that clearly show multiple light sources, ect..
Maybe he did some easy research and figured all of those points can be debunked without much effort
The picture of Michael Collins' spacewalk is from his book and isn't attributed to NASA at all. It was doctored specifically to use as a visual representation of the event due to the fact there aren't any actual pictures of it. The camera they were using became loose and drifted off into space so all the images were lost. Collins says all this in the book and never claims that it's real, which no one ever mentions. It was *NEVER* published by NASA.
Typical conspiracy stuff....they dont seem to care much about facts.
charlie.g.hague ~ I wanna double thumbs up this comment
“The camera they were using became loose and drifted off into space so all images were lost” lmao you’re special
@@ArielBojorquez www.moonhoaxdebunked.com/2017/07/522-how-come-eva-photo-of-michael.html
Just to add, his autobiography was published in the early to mid 70s long before the hoax stuff started to become insane in and of itself. I have inquired many aerospace engineers about the hoax and all of them, with a 40 year age differential (so at least 2 to 3 generations of engineers) point out that it is not just possible, but more than probable that the US landed on the moon. The technology was there and was built, with much of today's jet engines and other advanced rocket technology all based on the work done back in the late 60s.
Most of the other factors people bring up, like the lost footage and data, is actually explainable and not anything that leads to the concept of a hoax in any way. Early data of the B2 bomber was misplaced and lost and that was in 1987 (the B2 launching officially in 1989), in which they had to spend another two years of testing to get the B2 project off the ground. I know this because my own father worked on the B2 project and that info was openly disclosed to the public by Northrop Grumman after parts of the B2 project were disclosed by the government and made available to the public. So if the government can loose data on one of their most coveted stealth projects, then why not 20 years ago when it was the highest part of the Cold War when the various government agencies were loosing data and research left and right on all types of projects (some of it even proved to be lost in order to keep it away from the Soviets).
Also, they lost camera footage of the B2 test flights from the left wing because the damn camera fell off. Again, if it can happen on Earth under perfect testing conditions, it could and is more likely to happen in space (with regards to the camera drifting off into space). Engineers could only predict what could happen and most people who worked on the Apollo 11 project have stated that many things went wrong even through the mission was a success. Just because a layman doesn't understand the details doesn't mean that the details don't exists. Many documentaries and books have doctored photos in them that were not the photos provided by NASA. I would not be surprised that some of the photos being propped up as Hoax evidence were doctored photos and footage not from NASA, but made for the books and documentaries they came from and being thrown out as facts. Many Hoax sites don't even cite their photos or footage from real sources.
I remember buying a book where a Hoax site claimed one of the false NASA photos came from and I went, bought the book the site cited, and the photo was not in that book, nor were three others used as "proof" that the moon landing was a hoax. Perhaps because making a case for the moon landing Hoax is profitable conspiracy click-bait, people are willing to invest more effort into finding anything they can that would aid their case than to disprove their case, thus making many hoax creators no longer objective to the truth.
"space walk can't be the official term"
that would be shuttle shuffle
Moonwalk!
Don't you mean EVA ?
@@assistantto007 I was on my way to show off my superior intelligence and you beat me to it you bastard lol
Lmaoo
@@OFR Michael Jackson probably stole the term.
I see
Joe must have got a warning
I never thought of them just using some practice or mock ups along with real footage. Appreciate the bit of smartness, need an ego check like that. More please!
There's an interesting video where vfx artists debunk videos. They did a video on the moon landing and some other space related videos.
Joe’s ability to re-examine his previous beliefs or assumptions in such a humble manner, and admits mistakes all while holding himself accountable, are very rare traits in any person these days.
This is why so many of us respect him and makes his podcast the biggest on the planet
Hats off to you man….
shutup Lol
@@Incubussublime311 🤡
Either that or he got a big enough check to change his mind.
It's funny cause while I do disagree with you, it's because I still think he's a conspiracy lunatic pushing junk science, and that he regressed from this position.
It's called being a controlled opposition, joe can't say what he really thinks and believes on his podcast for obvious reasons 💀
"Longtime listener, first time caller"
It wasn't Armstrong Collins and Aldren who passed off the moon rock it was some ambassador to ambassador.
“It’s rocket science” was hilarious. Too bad joe missed that as a comedian.
I think he appreciated it, smiled in his head and his guest felt the vibe because he was waiting for his question and he was so serious and concentrated on the topic he continued to move forward so he didn’t lose concentration
Was just a fact
@Francisco Nieves damn, real shame that nobody gives a shit huh?
I came here looking for a comment about that joke
At least it's not bicycle science.
theres a very simple way to resolve this thing. just go back in time and see for yourself what happened.
Who has time?
Ricardo montalban that is very deep. in the space between events im going to think about that.
Jeffery Lord lul unappreciated response
Ricardo montalban
I got some extra time if you need some. I’ll hook you up
@@ricardomontalban6004 I have the time - just crowd-fund the mission and I'd do it.
In many instances, that dead end chase is the whole point.
Film badges were the initial legal method of measuring low level radiation doses for occupationally exposed workers. Film exposed on the roof at Chernobyl (by photographers that are all dead) was partially or completely fogged out because the radiation levels were so high.
10:06 Joe Rogan it wasn’t in Berlin. V-2 rocket factory was in Peenemünde and after city was bombarded by allies they moved to Poland to Blizne. I was born in city 10 miles from Blizne.
the you tube wormhole: started with Chris cornell tributes and ended up here..
haha that's where I began as well..
joey weird I just finished the church with Joey Diaz and Jesus trejo and your name is Joey and my Avi is Jesus the astronaut; This video is talking about moon landings and the podcast ended with break these chains by Cornell. ? Wormhole coincidence? Idk
joey I'm sorry for you.
Chris Cornell was the greatest of all time
Cameras got better over time